I just finished putting new heads on (cracked) and a new injection pump (DTC's 1216 0251) I am running a newish Heath PMD and it is doing the PMD song and dance. I even swapped out the new Heath PMD to see if it was going bad, but same thing, Stalling... stumbling no DTCs. it irregularly will start back up. the screws are tight on the pmd and it is not getting hot....I have a westers reflash and it all sits in a 1980 scout.
I have the lift pump wired to the ignition, a new fuel filter, have double checked all fuel lines.
I cant think of anything else...Will my Glock 9mm kill it or should i borrow my dads S&W 357? Anybody have any ideas before i take aim?

:help::help::help:

Doc, I have a new 50 cal Barrett :ro)

Hey Doc does it do it sitting in the driveway or just when you go for a run? Might be a wire grounding out somewhere in the harness if you bashed a couple of things putting the heads back on? Other than that i'm stumped at the moment.

After reviewing those codes, are they current as you said no codes?

Okay, what kinda fuel tank do have on this Scout? Gas or diesel tank? Does it maybe have a gas cap instead of diesel cap? Diesel cap doesn't allow vacuum. Gas cap will turn your tank into a little bitty raisin like thing that will hold a couple cups of fuel.

How does it stall? After a few miles down the road with regularity? or whenever from driveway to highway?

The codes mentioned were the old codes which told me the IP was going, and the mid throttle miss also told me the pump was going. the tank is a new 33 gal diesel tank. the scout was originally a sd33T diesel. it ran fine with this tank before, although i did have to drop the tank to clean it out after letting it sit for 6 months. Had lot of algae and clogged the filters, which are all new and have been rechecked.......I only get 1 block from the house and it dies, it is also doing it in the driveway, and the PMD is not hot at all....

New ebay IP maybe not so good?? Have you checked your fuel pressure on the T from the lift pump and watched it while driving/reving the engine?

I'm shooting in the dark here...

So no vacuum in tank? Just makin' sure here. I had new lift pump installed on mine, and had bad fuel cap. With good supply pressure coming to the IP--verified by gauge--, I was still losing power because of vacuum forming in tank. Don't understand it, but it was.

Maybe need more grounds on this thing?

See if you locate some Arcane metal piercing ammo for your 9mm and aim for a soft spot. 357 will work to, you'll just have to reload a few times more than the Glock. Keep a safe distance, that stuff splinters and ricochets. Ever tell you about the time I shot a cross tie with a .38 and the bullet bounced back and hit me? I was using .38 target wad cutters and shooting a cross tie set up as a fence post. Went in about an inch and bounced back about twenty feet and bounced off my chest. Moral to the story: Never shoot at a post that shoots back or make sure your ammo is wood piercing and the post ain't petrofied.

Have you found air in the filter assembly when you bleed it?

at what point do i start suspecting the ECM? Tomorrow or this weekend i will check the tank for any vacum and change out the pre lift pump filter even though i can see it is full of fuel. It seems like a fuel problem...is there a usual place i should look for air getting into the system? all conections "look" ok. I am stumped.

after the first 4 times this happened, i pulled the fuel filter to see if it was clogged, and then put it back without bleeding air out the top. ....i will do that first...

Jump the LP relay, bleed the air, then let the fuel pressure build. If that truck stalls again I'd try bleeding it again. If it doesn't have any air, the problem lies elsewhere.

Two things that come to mind are the ignition switch which carries the ignition power load and the possiblity of a wire in the harness that's grounding.

The most important ground for IP operation is the black wire that's grounded to the lid. If this connection where intermittent, the truck would stall.

He's already wired the LP to the ignition on position QM, its always on with the key. I think there's air in the system somewhere or a plugged filter. Check the fuel pressure after the filters and before the pump if you can and bleed the system again. I took my fuel line off the IP, let the LP run until clean fuel came out there in a can. Fired up in 15 or 20 seconds and i've never looked back.

OK, tomorrow or this weekend, i will check the ground to the IP and change the pre LP filter. then bleed it two more times and take the fuel supply to the IP off and run it til it come out clean and full, then cross my fingers and dont look back...lol, OR I start shooting.....:eek::eek::eek:

DieselPro,

I had that happen shooting tires with a 5.56mm.. I have a nice scar on my forehead.

When I got my first .45 I took it to a junk pile and unloaded on a flat tire. I was disappointed when I looked at the tire, all the bullets had bounced off. Ever heard of ghetto bullet proof vests? They take a tire and tear it down into strips and wrap it all around their body. The rubber acts as a better bullet repellant than Kevlar.

Doc, I have a new 50 cal Barrett :ro)

WAY COOL :ro) :cool2: :exactly:

DieselPro,

I had that happen shooting tires with a 5.56mm.. I have a nice scar on my forehead.
Quote from dieselpro
"See if you locate some Arcane metal piercing ammo for your 9mm and aim for a soft spot. 357 will work to, you'll just have to reload a few times more than the Glock. Keep a safe distance, that stuff splinters and ricochets. Ever tell you about the time I shot a cross tie with a .38 and the bullet bounced back and hit me? I was using .38 target wad cutters and shooting a cross tie set up as a fence post. Went in about an inch and bounced back about twenty feet and bounced off my chest. Moral to the story: Never shoot at a post that shoots back or make sure your ammo is wood piercing and the post ain't petrofied."

I like you guys more every day, just my kind of maniacs :ro)

You could put a clear piece of tubing to see if the IP is getting air.

if you are using rubber fuel line to carry the fuel, it will colapse under vaccum of the LP, diesel eats rubber line, my old Bobcat had rubber on it and I could never figure out why it would stall a few minutes after running it until my dad saw the line go flat under load. If you have to, re-run al the fuel line in steel.

Leaks never show up on the suck side of a pump, maybe try hooking a lift pump as close to the tank as possible that way the lines are pressurised all the way to the pump, leaks will show this way...
Another dumb thing to check is....does the fuel tank have fuel in it? it would not be the first time someone has siphoned a tank or the fuel gauge does not work!

Restriction on the return side will do the same thing, When housing pressure matches transfer pressure the pump is hydraulicly locked and stops pumping.

If anyone wants to see how fast it can happen, bend the rubber return line off the pump, just using two fingers you can stall it.

[quote=Texas Diesel Guy]Restriction on the return side will do the same thing, When housing pressure matches transfer pressure the pump is hydraulicly locked and stops pumping.
quote]

I don't think it's hydraulicly locked. Care to explain?

I thought pinching off the return line caused housing pressure to build up and thus retards the timing and kills the engine. That's how the HPCA works, it relieves the housing pressure to near zero, thus advances the timing. I'm talking old, mechanical pumps.

[quote=Texas Diesel Guy]Restriction on the return side will do the same thing, When housing pressure matches transfer pressure the pump is hydraulicly locked and stops pumping.
quote]

I don't think it's hydraulicly locked. Care to explain?
Sure, not locked as in won't turn, plungers are filled by transfer pressure, which has to over come housing pressure, when both pressures are the same, the plungers can't fill so the pump can't pump.

I thought pinching off the return line caused housing pressure to build up and thus retards the timing and kills the engine. That's how the HPCA works, it relieves the housing pressure to near zero, thus advances the timing. I'm talking old, mechanical pumps.
A restriction will do exactly that fred, if you pinch it off completely it will stall, but not from late timing (see above).

Housing pressure under normal operation is ~7-10 psi idling, HPCA solenoid pushes the ball in the return fitting out of the way so housing pressure dumps to spec <1psi. Since advance movement in mechanical pumps is Transfer pressure on one side of the piston, and housing pressure and a spring on the other, when you take away the housing pressure the piston advances a couple degrees.

How's it going Doc?

I think i have it licked. I bled the fuel filter out two more times and it seems to be doing ok. I also changed the radiator cap, it seemed to be releasing pressure at only 180 degrees & it was the old scout cap. i need to drive it around today and see if i am in the clear.....

??radiator cap is pressure operated, 6.5s use 16psi IIRC.

UUUUGGGGG, I thought this was done....But Nooooooooooooo. my 6.5 TD has a very intermittent stalling problem. I thought it was air working its way out of the system, but figured it was done. It is still occasionally stalling as if its out of fuel. I have bled the fuel filter 6 times.
To re-cap, It has new heads, 5521 IP, Glow plugs, remote heath PMD, New lift pump wired to ignition, it seems to idle fine in the driveway forever only gets to 180 deg. NO Codes, it has a westers reflash....
I am thinking there is air getting into the system somewhere? how can I narrow it down?:help::help::help:

I am thinking there is air getting into the system somewhere? how can I narrow it down?:help::help::help:

D&C is having a similar issue and Hooper and Tom M have suggested a crack in the fuel pickup tube in the tank. How fuel is the tank? Maybe try leaving the fuel cap off maybe you are getting a vacuum and it's keeping fuel from getting to the pump.

Do you have a fuel psi gauge?

Carey

Fuel filter gasket or as Carey suggests, a cracked fuel line in the tank. Fill it to the nuts and then try it.

Tank is new 33 gal, unlikley to be crack in line, but i will fil it up and check. what do you mean by filter gasket?

Fuel filter gasket on the filter itself, its easy to get buggered up when installing a new filter, its on the underside of the filter and has a formed lip on it, not just an O-ring. I've heard of a few times when the filter wouldn't leak from lift pump pressure but would suck air to the IP. New filters come with a new gasket.

If its sucking air it would have to be on the suck side of the lift pump or if the lift pump failed then it could suck air between the IP and the tank. Or you could try pressurising the tank then look for leaks. If its a new tank whats the chance that a hose connection at the tank is loose?
also like a VW you could put in a piece of clear line (between IP and filter bowl) and watch for air bubbles. When you bleed the filter did you have air??

I don't have experience on the 6.5, but my experience has been if it is sucking air you will have a very poor running engine i.e won't idle, no power or stalls under full throttle, almost like a gas engine that runs out of fuel. If your truck performs great except just stalls at a stop sign, I'd be looking for something else to be causing your engine to stall. any chance your PDM although new is faulty??

CR, I think the rubber formed gasket/seal is fine, but i will recheck it. when i bleed/bled the filter it seems to always have air, in fact when i loosen the top bleed valve fuel comes out from under the plastic top nipple thing and out the top where a hose can be attached. I wonder if that could be part of the problem...never read that it could be...i picked up some clear vinal tube to hook up to the top of the filter to see if i am getting air out of it. It has been hard to determine with black hose.
There does not appear to be any vacum in the fuel tank when i check the cap.

If you always have air at the filter then your sucking air from somewhere, eliminate the fuel tank itself, pull the nearest supply hose off the tank and run some extra line into a fuel can in the truck and make sure its always submerged in fuel, go for a run and see if you still have air at the filter or it stalls on you. I'm betting you have a small leak close to your lift pump sucking in air, look for signs of dampness around the lines if their wet the leak isn't far away. I've never written your number down but feel free to call me anytime as you have mine.