Well I decided to start a new thread since the old one is getting a little too long. I was checking my glow plugs today, when I noticed that one used plug is a 6V plug, now I am certain the system is 12 volt after connecting a multimeter on DC volts and practically every glow plug connector read 12 something. What I don't get is how could this engine have ran for several thousand miles on a 6 volt plug? I know that you can't run a 6 volt system with 12 volts plugs, but can you vice versa? This motorhome came with 2 spare 6 volts and I can't use them. The other thing I found out is that I have been testing the plugs incorrectly I hooked up the meter to the plug end where the connector goes, but I had the wrong setting on the meter so that's why I was getting 000 reading now I'm getting 01.1 fluctuating to 01.5 which I take it is around 1.1-1.5. The plug whose tip I couldn't get a grip on whose hex is spinning independent of the plug itself is returning .0.9 which I understand is too low? So I have to replace that one, the question is how am I going to get it out? And I guess I'm going to have to replace the six volt as well? Ah what the hell, maybe I should just buy another 6 autolite 1110s? Any suggestions? The other thing is that I hooked up a test light to do the same test with the relay switch on or off, to determine if the plugs are getting ground and are bad and the test light stays on, which means ground meaning bad plug, but when I connect it to the plug connector and the relay switch is on it goes off. The test light is connected to a positive battery wire that has a fuse inline, should it just be straight to the battery itself? Am I missing something? One last thing my low coolant light is on, any connection?
If all I have to do is get my glow plug situation straightened out to get this engine started, then I am way ahead of the game then I was when I thought I had major engine problems, Please help me clarify this confusion.
Thanks guys for all your help!
:grd:

The original glo-plugs in the early 6.2's were AC 9 G's (6-volt). By timing the controller to go off after 7.5 to 9 seconds, the would live, for a while. The later models used a PTC (Positive Temperature Coefficient) plug. These were self current limiting. As they heat up, they use less current, thus are self regulating. AC 60G's are the latest version. These require a longer "wait time" for cold starts but the plugs are protected from burning out and swelling the tips.

Ok then it's possible since this rigs engine was overhauled that the system was changed to 12 volt? All I know is the voltage rating I'm getting with the relay on is around 12 so it must be a 12 volt system, not to mention this engine for a P30 on autolite 1110 is 12 volt.
Thanks

Well I replaced all 7 of the plugs, 7 becuase I have not been able to take out the one that is stuck, I tried everything everyone sugggested in the other thread. can't ez it out, because I'm drilling at an angle and I don't have access to a slant drill. I can't take out it without taking it out of the block and that's a real process, I'm not about to start screwing with the head. I tried to get it loose with vice grips, no way! Tried the air hammer approach still no go. So I'm just going to leave it in until I cant get the engine started and get to someone who can get it out. The starter is dragging and when I put the multimeter on the starter before cranking it, it shows 12-13 like the battery, the battery goes down to about 10 when cranking engine, the starter goes down to about 7. I talked to a manager at advanced and he said it sounds like the starter is being "dragged down" and is not getting enough current check your wires, well my big thick battery wire that goes to the starter has been taking a lot of heat and the wires are exposed and look frayed, it's been recommended that I change the whole wire it's about 15 bucks at advanced, well that's where I'm at presently, any thoughts or suggestions, would be much appreciated.
Thanks all for your help and suggestions.

Good wires make all the difference, can't beat the price either.

You said you tried ether, and still didn't start, unless the starter is dragging internally, it should have started.

You really need to get this truck into a shop and have them atleast diagnose it if not fix it.

I agree on the shop thing as everyone has given all the info and more that I would have tried. The other thing That I guarantee will fix it! JACK UP RADIATOR CAP AND PLACE NEW TRUCK UNDER IT! Brent

Don't worry about the voltage of the vehicle. All civillian vehicles are 12 Volt. The 6V rating on the glo-plugs are just that, a voltage rating of the plug itself. The vehicle relay still supplies 12 volts to the systems with 6 volt glo-plugs. The idea of this was quick heat and fast starts. The problem was that they tend to destroy themselves from being subjected to 12 volts repeatedly. Hence, the second design (third, if you count the GM 5.7D 12 volt, slow start system from '78) system with the PTC type plugs and longer timing of the relay/controller.

The issue of replacing the old 6 volt plugs with new 12 volt plugs is glo-plug "on time". If you still have the old style controller in the lt. rear cyl. head bypass cover, and an external Delco Pt #560580 relay, you may not be able to get enough "on time" out of the controller to allow the new 12 volt plugs to heat up enough to fire off the fuel on cold starts.

Thats why most everybody converts their glo-plug system with some type of manual switch/bypass to allow them to hold the power on to the plugs, allowing them to continue to heat after the controller "kicks off". This works with 12 volt plugs of any type but will quickly burn up a set of the old Delco 9G, 6 volt plugs!

The starter/battery cables is another matter. Without good, heavy battery cables, batteries and starter, no 6.2 will start well, even when warm. Fix this problem one step at a time and you'll get it going. Good luck and keep us posted. Fred

Ok first off I want to remind all of you that this is not a truck, it's a 27 ft. motorhome and myself my wife and cat are living in it, so the shop idea doesn't work to well. So let me understand what your saying about the plugs, if I understand correctly the autolite 1110s I just bought from advanced won't work unless I have manual switch relay? So I would be better off with AC delco 60gs if I intend to keep the relay I have? This all so confusing. To make matters worse I still have that one plug that's stuck in the cylinder and refused to come out. What happens when you mix 12 and 6 volt plugs? I really have to figure this out. I just spent 60 bucks yesterday in glow plugs at advanced and now I may have to take them back? I know autozone has ac delco 60gs, if that's what I need? I really don't want to start messing with the relay switch, if I don't know what I'm doing.
Thanks again guys.

Good wires make all the difference, can't beat the price either.

You said you tried ether, and still didn't start, unless the starter is dragging internally, it should have started.

You really need to get this truck into a shop and have them atleast diagnose it if not fix it.

I don't know what you mean by you tried either, I don't have a new battery cable yet, if that's what you mean, I'm going to get one this weekend and change it.
Thanks

I didn't read for sure, what type of relay and controller you have. It should be the two items I mentioned above. A separate controller in the lt rear cyl head water outlet cover. (Sticks up with a six wire plug on it) The separate relay is as decribed, two 5/16" threaded posts and two male spade terminals. Usually mounted near the fuel filter at the rear of the engine, on the motorhome chassis. It looks like an old Ford starter solenoid.

The late style relay/controller is one unit, usually gray in color, two copper posts, threaded with nuts to hold the wires on and a snap-loc flat four wire connector for control wiring.

If your system is the two separate pieces, it is designed for the 9G, fast start glo-plugs. AC 11G's were the replacement number for the 9G's. The early two separate piece systems won't start well with the newer style plugs. These include AC 60G's.

In order to use the AC 60G's, you would need the bypass switch to keep them on long enough to heat sufficiently to start a cold engine. They take longer to reach operating temperature then the old 6 volt type (AC 9G's).

I'm unfamiliar with the other after-market plugs. I don't know if they are the PTC type. Let us know, Fred

Put the orginal style plugs back in. The Delco plugs work good. 6V just means they light up quick on 12 volts. 6V plugs will burn up if they stay on over 10 seconds or so. That's the way they are made so don't worry about it. Take a hot wire and touch the stuck plug, if it sparks chances are the plug is good> leave it alone. Test your old plugs removed outside by grounding the threaded area and touching the hot wire to the terminal. The plug should glow red in just seconds > thats good. And for gods sake, make sure the thing spins over fast before tinkering with anything.

Put the orginal style plugs back in. The Delco plugs work good. 6V just means they light up quick on 12 volts. 6V plugs will burn up if they stay on over 10 seconds or so. That's the way they are made so don't worry about it. Take a hot wire and touch the stuck plug, if it sparks chances are the plug is good> leave it alone. Test your old plugs removed outside by grounding the threaded area and touching the hot wire to the terminal. The plug should glow red in just seconds > thats good. And for gods sake, make sure the thing spins over fast before tinkering with anything.

So then I can't use the autolite 1110s I have? I put a test light connected to a hotwire on the stuck plug head and it lights, the terminal came off so there is no way to connect the relay wire to the plug.
Thanks

I didn't read for sure, what type of relay and controller you have. It should be the two items I mentioned above. A separate controller in the lt rear cyl head water outlet cover. (Sticks up with a six wire plug on it)

That's the one, it has 6 wires different colors it's right next to the out fuel line of the secondary fuel filter. So the million dollar question is can I use the autolite 1110.s that I already purchased and installed, or do i need something else?
Thanks

As I said, I'm unfamiliar with the Autolite brand. I always use Delco, so don't know the specs on the 1110's. If they are a direct part number cross-over to the Delco 9G, which was superceded by the 11G's, then you can use them. If the 1110's are made to the specs of a PTC plug like the Delco 60G's, then they will not work with the quick start controller system that you have. It will take some research at the parts counter.

Autolite Glowplugs are about as good as their Sparkplugs, garbage.

Pull out one of the new glow plugs you just installed. Look at the base of the plug very carefully, it should have the voltage of the glow plug scribed in it. It is probably going to have 10.5 v and should work with your system. I am not sure if the autolites are self limiting or not, I prefer A/C delco 60g, because I know they are self limiting. At any rate, cycle your glow plugs twice and give it a shot. Plugging in the block heater will also help. Diesel is very fundamental, compression gets air very hot, inject fuel into hot air and bingo combustion! Engine should start with only 7 glow plugs, but it might run a little rough until last cylinder builds enough heat to fire. Don't use ether if you are trying to use your present glow plug system. Try WD 40 instead, because it won't damage your engine. When using ether, it is important to have a helper and be cranking the engine over while spraying the ether, and don't use very much. When using WD 40, remove air cleaner assembly and spray directly into manifold. If engine starts and dies then you have a fuel supply problem. Lets us know your progress.

Just came to my mind... A year ago I was on off-road safari, and on a last day I started to have troubles to start my K5. I have huge 180Ah battery, it was ok, so was the thick cables and all the the connections. Still needed to use glow plugs on fairly warm engine. It hardly started. But luckily I manged to get home, after all, I was on the other country and my spare starter was at home.

When I got home, I dropped the starter, and took it to pieces. Solenoid was ok, it was replaced earlier. Then I noticed the slip ring brushes, and one of them was so worned out that it hardly touched the slip ring. I found old starter that had same sized brushes, so I replaced the bad one. And look, it started right away :D

I did change the whole starter later, because the old spare didn't last too long.

Earlier I had changed the glow plugs to 60G's, thicker cables, solenoid to starter, almost changed the two year old battery until I found out that it was the brushes that gave the starting problems.

Plugging in the block heater will also help
I don't know if it has one, where should I look? I looked near the radiator where I have heard some are placed, but I didn't see a plug.
Thanks

Earlier I had changed the glow plugs to 60G's, thicker cables, solenoid to starter, almost changed the two year old battery until I found out that it was the brushes that gave the starting problems.

Hmm something to consider, if the battery cables don't solve my starter dragging problem.

Lt. center block soft plug hole should have the block heater in it. Side of the block, down low, just above the pan rail. The cord should be attached, factory fastened it to the motor mount bracket with a metal clip. Routed it anywhere after that. Usually somewhere under the front bumper, on the top of the frame, behind the grille. If the cord is gone, the block heater is identifyable by the three pin-type terminals, the center one, slightly longer than the two outside ones. Center pin is the "ground for the three prong plug.

Most starters I've torn down have the brushes worn down to where the plastic brush holder is rubbing the commutator and wearing away the plastic! Time to change the brushes.

Pull out one of the new glow plugs you just installed. Look at the base of the plug very carefully, it should have the voltage of the glow plug scribed in it. It is probably going to have 10.5 v and should work with your system. .
I pulled one, and wouldn't you know it, it doesn't say, so I called autolite and spoke with a tech and he told me. the 1110 is 10 volt and 90 watts and is for Fast Start systems, the 1112 is 10.5 and 70 watts, so given what I know about my relay system will the 1110s still work, I sure hope so, since I don't think I can return them once they are installed.
Thanks

If they are 10 volt, they will work. You may have to cycle them twice to get enough heat for it to start.

Did the autolite rep say if the 1110's are self regulating or not? Good thing to know in case your controller ever sticks on.:exactly:

Well I took the battery cables to a local auto battery place, and they convinced me to replace the cables with new cables with soldered on connectors, I couldn't get the cables back on the starter, so I took the starter to them and had it tested, since I had to take the starter out anyway to put the cables back, well, murphy's law reared it's ugly head as usual and while I was grounding the ground cable to the engine block as suggested by the battery fellow, I tore a wire from one of the cables that goes to the starter solenoid, it comes from the harness that goes inside I think. It would appear to be a fuseable link. It's two red wires that go into a plastic like cylinder and comes out one single wire that goes to the solenoid. An hour before I tried to turn the starter, but all I got was the glow plug lights, now I don't get anything, word is the cable is the main power to the iniside of the rig. I called advance and the guy said if it's a fuseable link it's going to be tough to replace. There is an old van here that has used up parts including a starter, can I use the fuseable link from that one? I was thinking about splicing another link in between the old one. The plastic cylinder has a 16 on it so I'm assuming it's 16 amps? Has anyone had any similar experiences?
Thanks

As a temporary measure you could bypass the fusible link and wire it direct.

Now why didn't I think about that? ;) Actually what I decided to do is cut the old one and put a straight one inline, on my way to Advanced to get one now, it should work just fine.
Thanks

Dieselhome,

Where are you currently parked?

Re: your draggin' starter. I have to replace the starter on my 86 6.2 every year - they just start dragging and quit. I buy NAPA and are guaranteed for lifetime. When I walk in there they go to the back and come out with a new starter - automatically.

I want to trade up next time to a Bosch - I hear they are better quality and will last longer. The problem (I heard) was replacement starters are made with the housing too thick (there are no shims in mine) A friend had his starter housing - where it bolts to the engine) ground down "somewhat" - and they didn't wear out so fast after that. I don't understand the concept, but it is a true story, I know.

There's a lot of juice in a two battery, diesel set-up - lots of compression to turn.

Dennis

I wish that were the cause, but I just had the starter checked for the second time and it's working fine. I'm going to try to put some WD40 in the intake today and crank her up and see what I get, will keep you posted.
Thanks

I'm currently parked in a campground/trailer park just outside of Starke FL. I spoke to AAA this week and they are willing to tow me to a facility in St. Augustine, but they won't pickup the tab for repairs even though it was a AAA facility that screwed up my starter in the first place. The big problem is that the rig is parked face in and it can't be towed from the back, because it's a rear bath and it's too weak to tow from there. We were towed into this spot by a tractor, I don't know if there is any room from the front to get out of this space, it seems to me the only way out is to back out. Quite a dillema.

I have not be able to locate a block heater and the engine did not respond to the WD40 in the intake, it just kept turning but no noticable difference. I have fully charged batteries and a brand new battery cables and my meter shows at least 13 volts, which should be more than enough juice, one think I did notice though the injectors that I had opened up, were wet. What the heck is holding this engine back from starting? I just found this post from 2004 that says "1982 glow plugs are all "fast glow" style. Slow glow style was used 78-79. Fast glow ones use 6 volts, slow uses 12 volts. You say you have 12 volts to the plugs. Something is not right there - and when you mentioned there is a bypass line - it all fits together then! Slow glow are on 5.7's only, so chances are you simply are giving the plugs too much voltage and cooked them" My rig is a 1982-83 The plugs I have installed now are Autolite 1110s which are not 6 volts, with the exception of the one that is stuck and won't come out. Could the wrong plugs be keeping it from starting, or as it's been suggested before, if it's not responding to the WD40, then there is something more to it like rings or valves. I don't think I can return these plugs now since they have been in there and it's been at least 30 days, anyone wanna buy some plugs cheap? lol But seriously I don't have the resources to keep spending money to find out if this going to run or not. I don't know what to do! I guess I'm going to have to face facts, this rig is not going anywhere anytime soon!
Thanks for all your help.

WD40 isn't the same stuff it used to be. You can barely light it with an open flame.

If you have to get it started you need a starting fluid like Ether.
And if you use ether, unplug the Glowplug relay.

WD40 isn't the same stuff it used to be. You can barely light it with an open flame.

If you have to get it started you need a starting fluid like Ether.
And if you use ether, unplug the Glowplug relay.

Ok so I'm not getting anything ignited is what your saying, that makes sense.
So if I unplug the Glowplug relay, which I assume is to each individual plug? Or just the main relay to the plugs? Then I'm taking the plugs out of the equation all together, so I don't have to be concerned about the right plugs voltage? I have used ether before, I'm just concerned about screwing up the head or something more important. But I will give it a shot.
Thanks again.

You are missing something with glowplug therory! YOU HAVE 12 VOLTS TO THE 6 VOLT PLUGS!!! CORRECT!!! It is like running a 6 volt heater fan! It will spin faster but will have a shorter life! The plugs that are 12 volt take TWICE as long to get hot which caused people to try to start their trucks before they were thoroughly heated. I would spray wd40 first then as the truck spins over give just a shot (with g-plug solenoid disconnected) if it chugs over at all STOP!!! How much air have you gotton purged from fuel system? Have you changed or removed the filter on the fire wall? If so... It won't run untilll you open the air vent and crank the hell out of it purging air. Brent

Ok, I disconnected the Glow plug relay and just tried Ether, it did the knocking thing like it wanted to start, but wouldn't start. I can hear something coming from the engine, it sounds like a sucking sound when I'm cranking, my guess is I'm just hearing the mechanical fuel pump? Can I rule out the lift and vacum pumps?
Thanks

You are missing something with glowplug therory! YOU HAVE 12 VOLTS TO THE 6 VOLT PLUGS!!! CORRECT!!! It is like running a 6 volt heater fan! It will spin faster but will have a shorter life! The plugs that are 12 volt take TWICE as long to get hot which caused people to try to start their trucks before they were thoroughly heated. I would spray wd40 first then as the truck spins over give just a shot (with g-plug solenoid disconnected) if it chugs over at all STOP!!! How much air have you gotton purged from fuel system? Have you changed or removed the filter on the fire wall? If so... It won't run untilll you open the air vent and crank the hell out of it purging air. Brent

No it's the other way around. At present I have close to 12 volt plugs installed. The autolite 1110s are around 11 something. Now I'm quite certain based on the fact that I found 2 spare 6 volt champions in the rig and the post I referred to earlier that this righ uses the 6 volt types, but according to Advanced online it takes the 1110,s and I confirmed with Autolite the voltage not being 6 volts. Of course I have a plug stuck and can't get it out and I can only suspect it's a 6 volt, so the only thing I can imagine is I have to put 7 more 6 volts in and eat the autolites! I get 10.76 on my meter tester, volts coming from the GlowPlug relay. Sometime ago I was purging the secondary filter and fuel got on the relay, for some reason I still keep finding fuel on the inside of the main plug of the relay, I'm wondering if that's why I'm not getting a full 12 volts? Yes I have purged those two filters several times. I really want to rule out anything else, so that's why I have been bypassing the fuel system and trying to get it started with some catalyst like wd40 or ether, just so I know the damn thing will start, of course I have to have the fuel system purged to run it and I intend to address that as soon as it will start, unless of course there is no way to get it started bypassing the fuel system and glowplugs, is that what you are saying? One last thing I should mention. When it did run, I would have to have the vacuum assist switch pulled out for it to stay on and even after warming up, there woud be a noticable, (looked like white smoke could have been blue, if it was blue then a sign of bad rings, could that be my problem?) smoke out of the exhaust if the the switch was in.
Thanks for you input, I much appreciate everyone's help here, and I'm grateful this forum is here. :)

With compression and a catalyst like either the engine should run. If it won't and you have fuel to the injection pump and the return line isn't restricted, the internals of your injection pump could be the problem. Disconnect the return line off of the top of the injection pump and let the hose run freely into an open container. Try to start. Is fuel coming out of the return line? If not there is either a fuel delivery problem or a problem in the injection pump. Don't worry about your glow plugs that you have installed, they will work, but you might need to cycle the glow plugs more than once to get them hot enough. Early controllers only stay on for about 9 seconds max. 12 seconds will burn out early style 6v glow plugs. Later style glow plugs take longer to heat up but will not burn out if held on longer, this is why some of us preffer manual glow plug buttons.

Dieselhome, The statement, "6 volt plug" means that the plug is designed to heat to its operating temperature when a 6 volt power source is applied to it. They will heat much quicker when they have 12 volts applied to them, but...burn out much quicker due to the overvoltage condition. Hence, the quick, 7 - 9 seconds of "on time" when energizing the relay with the factory-installed controller. The factory tested and intended to heat the 6 volt plugs by applying 12 volts to them "just long enough" to start the engine, without burning out the plugs. Unfortunately, this timing wasn't always the sole cause of burning up the 6 volt plugs. Engine heat, pump timing, after-glo, etc. also contributed to the demise of this early design. The 12 volt PTC system has been more reliable, but still troublesome with faulty relay-controllers.

In order for your vehicle to properly heat the glo-plugs to optimum temp for cold starting, it requires the "fast start, 6 volt" plugs. The Autolite 1110's are probably a 12 volt PTC (Positive Temp Control) plug, designed for the later style relay-controller combo unit. GM used the AC 11G's and later, superceded them to AC 60G's.

To make the Autolite 1110's work, a manual glo-plug switch is needed to keep your relay energized for a long enough period of time to properly heat the 1110's to operating temperature.

Your vehicle is a 12 volt system. Knowing that, when the relay is energized, it applies "12 volts" to the glo-plug system. A reading of 10 - 11 volts is normal. There is a voltage drop due to the heating of your glo-plugs. It places a load on the batteries, dropping the voltage to the 10.76 reading that you got on your meter.

If you have to increase the "on-time" of your glo-plugs to get them hot enough to start and can't install a manual override switch because of your logistics, you can accomplish the same thing by "jumping" the relay (with a heavy-guage wire) to bypass the automatic timing of the controller.

Be sure to follow Dave's advice on checking the injector pump! That sounds like a possible cause for your problems. Fred

Ok got it, how heavy does the gauge of the wire have to be, and how do I jump the relay, not sure I understand. This is all getting really old for me and mentally exhausting, I wish the damn thing would just start allready! If only everthing was that simple lol :) So just so I'm clear, there's no way it's going to start without the glow plugs, even though it's 90 degrees outside? I had no luck finding a block heater. I think what I'm understanding is that it's not the outside temperature but rather the fact that the engine is cold, meaning it has not run for a long time and needs to be heated?
Thanks again guys.

Correct, the engine parts are cold and heat-of-compression in an indirect injection engine, such as the 6.2, doesn't generate enough heat to ignite the fuel by itself. The glo-plugs heat the air in the pre-chamber so the air is hot enough to ignite the charge from the injector.

The heavy guage wire I spoke of is intended to carry the current of all eight glo-plugs. I use a short piece bent into a u-shape. I used an old 10 ga. wire, but 8 ga would be better. A piece of an old battery cable would be good. Remember, the glo-plug load can be up to 12 amps (or more) each. That's over 100 amps! It generates a lot of heat in a hurry. The wire will get hot if it's too small to carry that much current.

Jumper the two main terminals at the glo-plug relay. The copper colored ones with the 1/2" (or 13mm) nuts on them. There should be one large red wire on one of them and two black fusible links, (each going to four of the glo-plugs) on the other terminal. These two usually turn into "orange with a black stripe, 10ga." wires after they leave the fusible links. The links are only about 6" long, right at the relay.

By jumping across the two big terminals, you are by-passing the relay and completing the circuit from battery to glo-plugs. I would jump it for a few seconds (10 - 15) and try starting it. If it trys to fire, you're on the right track! If you don't get a good heavy spark when you jumper the relay, the glo-plugs are not working. Remember, the 100 amp load from battery to plugs when they're all heating. That equates to a pretty good "spark" when you hook up the jumper.

Good Luck, keep us posted!

Jumper the two main terminals at the glo-plug relay. The copper colored ones with the 1/2" (or 13mm) nuts on them. There should be one large red wire on one of them and two black fusible links, (each going to four of the glo-plugs) on the other terminal. These two usually turn into "orange with a black stripe, 10ga." wires after they leave the fusible links. The links are only about 6" long, right at the relay.

Ok I do have an old battery cable I can use, but when you got to the relay I lost you, I don't think I have that type of relay, in fact the male plug on the relay resembles that of a glow plugs. I will try to get a picture of it if I can and post it. Also remember I don't think it will be 8 plugs firing, since I have one stuck inside and the terminal on the plug broke off outside. So I take it till I get this glow plug thing figured out, there's no point in check the F.I. pump?
Thanks for the suggestion.

If the truck won't start with ether, then you're wasting your time fiddling with the glowplugs.

This thread is so old and slow moving. Could you re-reverify a couple things? Lest just start at the beginning.

With the ignition switch ON, when you remove the Heavy Red wire on the injection pump to the shut off solenoid, and tap it on the contact, can you hear the solenoid 'click' open and closed?

Do you have supply pressure to the injection pump?

Do you have fuel at the injectors if you crack open the line there while cranking?

If you have fuel to the injectors, and tried ether and it still doesn't start then you have SERIOUS engine problems, like a broken crankshaft of something.

If the truck won't start with ether, then you're wasting your time fiddling with the glowplugs.

This thread is so old and slow moving. Could you re-reverify a couple things? Lest just start at the beginning.

With the ignition switch ON, when you remove the Heavy Red wire on the injection pump to the shut off solenoid, and tap it on the contact, can you hear the solenoid 'click' open and closed?

Do you have supply pressure to the injection pump?

Do you have fuel at the injectors if you crack open the line there while cranking?

If you have fuel to the injectors, and tried ether and it still doesn't start then you have SERIOUS engine problems, like a broken crankshaft of something.

I agree it's really gotten old, yes I can hear the solenoid click, yes I have pressure to the injection pump from both the mechanical pump and I electric pump placed in between the primary fuel filter and tank. I do have some fuel to some of the injectors not all. As for crankshaft, isn't that connected to the cam? If the cam didn't work neither would my mechanical fuell pump, since they are connected. Or am I wrong about that?
Thanks

OK wait, you have fuel to SOME injectors and not all????

I think its time to pull the injection pump out. You might be able to find someone who will actually test it for you, but it would be best just to have them go ahead and rebuild it.

6.2 pumps are a breeze, a good pump guy can rebuild one in ~2hrs unless its in really rough shape.

OK wait, you have fuel to SOME injectors and not all????

I think its time to pull the injection pump out. You might be able to find someone who will actually test it for you, but it would be best just to have them go ahead and rebuild it.

6.2 pumps are a breeze, a good pump guy can rebuild one in ~2hrs unless its in really rough shape.

Yes, when the injectors are cracked open a little, I have fuel to roughly 6 out of 8 I believe. As for the pump, according to my records it was overhauled about 5 years ago. I have spoken with the company that did it and the tech said not to condemn the pump just yet, that was over 3 months ago. The thing is I have heard that once a pump is rebuilt once, that's it, it can't be rebuilt again especially a freaking stanadyne roosa master, not easy to find either, please correct me if I'm wrong. I can't imagine the pump is the problem considering it was already overhauled. I have opened the weight retainer cover on two different occasions, the first time it was filled with fuel, that was the time I managed to get the engine started after, the second time it was filled with air, the ring is not there, but from what I have been told it's not uncommon for them to not replace it, unless it's replaced with a brass one, since the plastic ones they come with tend to disolve. Please bear in mind that all this started because air got in the lines. I did manage to get it started and drive it in April, but after having to get towed back here, it hasn't started since. Either it's something really simple I'm not catching or it's something I don't get.

6.2 pumps can be rebuilt an indefinite number of times, Advance pistons bore can be reamed out oversize, pistons are available in STD, +2, +5, +8, +10, and +12 thou oversize. The housing can be replaced when its worn out too, but you should be able to rebuild it 3 or 4 times before you have to worry about that.

Cores are abundant, there's certainly no shortage, I don't know who told you that.

I don't think you opened the 'weight retainer cover'. You removed the top cover or governor cover instead. If you found it full of air, then your supply system is drawing air from somewhere and you need to get that fixed or it will never work right.

You can barely see the top of the weight cage, can't see the flex ring at all with out taking the pump apart. What year model is this thing? I can't see a fuel shop rebuilding an automotive pump and not updating it to the one piece EID weight cage. There is no brass replacement either, if you re-use the old style weight cage you have to put a new plastic flex ring on it. They don't dissolve either, they get brittle after 5-10 years, turn from clear to black and fall apart.
:rant:

Now that I'm done with that. I think you've finally given us the clue we needed. You said you removed the top cover and the pump was full of air. I think you will find your problem somewhere with the electric supply pump you added. Your drawing air somewhere in the fuel supply, that air is keeping the injection pump from developing sufficient transfer pressure and injection pressure. Once you fix that, I'll bet it will start right up for you.

Also, if the technician that built your pump thinks you might still have the old style weight cage, then I think you should take the pump out for another rebuild, and not back to his place either.

6.2 pumps can be rebuilt an indefinite number of times, Advance pistons bore can be reamed out oversize, pistons are available in STD, +2, +5, +8, +10, and +12 thou oversize. The housing can be replaced when its worn out too, but you should be able to rebuild it 3 or 4 times before you have to worry about that.

Cores are abundant, there's certainly no shortage, I don't know who told you that.

I don't think you opened the 'weight retainer cover'. You removed the top cover or governor cover instead. If you found it full of air, then your supply system is drawing air from somewhere and you need to get that fixed or it will never work right.

You can barely see the top of the weight cage, can't see the flex ring at all with out taking the pump apart. What year model is this thing? I can't see a fuel shop rebuilding an automotive pump and not updating it to the one piece EID weight cage. There is no brass replacement either, if you re-use the old style weight cage you have to put a new plastic flex ring on it. They don't dissolve either, they get brittle after 5-10 years, turn from clear to black and fall apart.
:rant:

Now that I'm done with that. I think you've finally given us the clue we needed. You said you removed the top cover and the pump was full of air. I think you will find your problem somewhere with the electric supply pump you added. Your drawing air somewhere in the fuel supply, that air is keeping the injection pump from developing sufficient transfer pressure and injection pressure. Once you fix that, I'll bet it will start right up for you.

Also, if the technician that built your pump thinks you might still have the old style weight cage, then I think you should take the pump out for another rebuild, and not back to his place either.

Ok, first off it's a 1982-83, I stand corrected about the cover, I think your right it was just the top cover, that's probably why I didn't see a ring. Yes it seems like the issue from the start has been air and the first time I got started when I had the electric pump in place of the old mechanical pump, before I replaced that one. The air came right out with the electric pump on and sure enough, all the injectors got the air out and the fuel started to flow and it started, without ether, but that's when the glow plugs were good, now I have a dillema with that one that is stuck and the rest being a different voltage, so I'm guessing I either jump the relay or get 6 volt plugs. I don't if I have mentioned this before but I also cracked to to line to the secondary fuel filter and replace that line with just fuel host, that line had a warmer sensor on it and obviously has not been replaced, I have been told that shouldn't affect it unless it's cold out? As far as the rebuilds go, If I do have to pursue that avenue with the shop that did it and find out more.
Thanks

Have you tried disconecting the fuel return line from the top of the pump yet? Then try starting engine with the line disconnected. Engine WILL NOT START if fuel return is restricted! Next if this doesn't work, take top of pump off again and make sure that it is full of fuel. Make sure that when you had it off before that you did not bind the internal linkage. If the linkage is bound up the rotary valve can not turn and will not let fuel pass to the injectors. When reinstalling top cover on pump, I preffer to set the cover down on the housing with about 1/8 to 1/4 inch extending to the front of the housing and then carefully slide it to the rear, you should feel the spring tension contact the fuel solenoid lever. :grd:

Put the orginal style plugs back in. The Delco plugs work good. 6V just means they light up quick on 12 volts. 6V plugs will burn up if they stay on over 10 seconds or so. That's the way they are made so don't worry about it. Take a hot wire and touch the stuck plug, if it sparks chances are the plug is good> leave it alone. Test your old plugs removed outside by grounding the threaded area and touching the hot wire to the terminal. The plug should glow red in just seconds > thats good. And for gods sake, make sure the thing spins over fast before tinkering with anything.

I'm going with this idea since it makes the most sense at this time, I only had 2 bad plugs that I know of, the rest were old but good, but I was told to err on the safe side and replace them. Since I had 2 spare 6 volts that came with the rig, I figure I have a good chance of having 7 good 6 volts plus that one thats stuck. I tested the 2 and they are good now I need to come up with 5 more 6 volts, the ones I have are Champions, I'm going to see if I either I have some or am going to have get some. I just checked and Autozone has the A.C. 60gs I read the post from earlier, but I'm not clear if I can use these with my system? Are 6 volt fast plugs? Can't I just use the 7 Autolites that I have and just cycle the relay longer without haveing to change it to a manual relay or jump it like it was suggested I tested the one that is stuck and it sparked, but I had to destroy the connector on it to try to E.Z. it out, I should have tested it first damn! Now my question is if that plug has no way of heating up, can the engine still start on 7 good plugs? If it can then I can try to use the jackhammer approach mentioned before with the engine running, that is if I can get a grip on the plug, since it's worn down pretty good. I sure as hell don't want to have to have the head taken off, but I'm thinking that's what it's going to have to come to get the sucker out! I just got this idea to try to solder on a old connector to the one that is stuck, that is if there is any room to. I need to do the testing and then will install them and see what happens, I will also check the return on the F.I. pump. I found this glow plugs reference page with seems to help I guess. http://www.flashoffroad.com/Diesel/GlowPlug/DieselGlowplug.htm

Thanks

The engine should start with seven working glo-plugs. I doubt you can solder a connector onto a glo-plug. They are pinch-welded at the factory. Solder probably won't stick. Silver solder might. Don't know, never tried it.

The engine should start with seven working glo-plugs. I doubt you can solder a connector onto a glo-plug. They are pinch-welded at the factory. Solder probably won't stick. Silver solder might. Don't know, never tried it.

Ok that's good to know, what about the plugs themselves? Can I use the 7 Autolites I have with the relayand just cycle them longer or do I need the AC 60gs. Or Champion 6 volts like the two spares that came with the rig?
Thanks for all your help on this, I really appreciate it.. :)

honestly, your best bet for right now is to forget that this truck even has glowplugs.

they are ONLY there to heat the fuel/air in the pre cup to help the engine start, after the engine starts they have nothing to do with anything. You have some ether so just leave them like they are until you get this thing moved somewhere.

Pulling the top cover again sounds like a good idea, make sure the metering valve pivots freely and that the pump is full to the brim with diesel fuel. If its stuck, then move it back and forth to try and free it up so you can hopefully atleast make it start, if not then you'll have to get the pump overhauled.

While you've got it off, just make sure the shut off solenoid is operating properly. You'll have to do this with the ignition on and ground the top cover somewhere.

If you can get your hands on some clear hose, hook it up to the return fitting of the pump and to the return line and if you ever get it started, or can get someone to crank it for you, watch for air bubbles and make sure fuel is being returned and the connector isn't plugged.

I will do all that, I took all the Autolite plugs out though. I guess I should put them, all back? lol. As for the bubbles thing, yes I have done that on occasion and yes I do see bubbles from time to time, I haven't checked that in a while, so I have to. One thing I know, is that as long as the bubbles are moving through the plastic clear hose the air is being forced out by the fuel and injector pumps I have seen this before, and shortly after got it started. One peculiar thing that happened after that time, was I was watching the bubbles move through and then suddenly they stopped, I suspected a plugged secondary filter and changed a filter that I had just changed days ago. I think it was a plugged fuel line don't know, but I started getting nervous about the F.I. pump, that's when I called the company that worked on it. Any clues from what I described? I think it still does that, I can get the bubbles moving with electric pump on a toggle switch, but when I crank with the electric fuel pump on the bubbles will stop and and soon as reset they start moving again. Could it just be airlocked/vaporlocked? Some posts backs, someone mentioned, that I should have the petcock valve open on the primary filter on the firewall, which I have had open now for about a week, I take it the valve let's air out but not in? When I connected the electric fuel pump, fuel started coming out of the primary filter, so I immediately turned off the pump, is that normal? Or do I have to close the valve before turning on the electric pump? I hope I'm going to have to keep checking the filters for air and keep refilling them, that's been a real pain in the past. But what works, works I guess.
Thanks

With your electric fuel pump, close the valve on top of the primary filter as soon as fuel comes out of it. If you didn't have an electric fuel pump, you would have to refill the filter with fuel. I think you are at the point of a fuel delivery problem inside of the injection pump. As was mentioned earlier, remove the top of the injection pump, test the fuel solenoid(with key on and wire connected to the top of pump, ground the pump cover) the linkage on the solenoid should move, if this works, move on to the linkage inside of the injection pump. Push on the linkage at the same point as the fuel solenoid does and cycle it back and forth, it should move very easily, if it doesn't it is gummed up and will need to be cleaned. The fuel delivery valve is a rotary type valve and I have seen these stick in the closed position before, due to sitting for long periods of time. Give these things a try and get back to us.:grd:

With your electric fuel pump, close the valve on top of the primary filter as soon as fuel comes out of it. If you didn't have an electric fuel pump, you would have to refill the filter with fuel. I think you are at the point of a fuel delivery problem inside of the injection pump. As was mentioned earlier, remove the top of the injection pump, test the fuel solenoid(with key on and wire connected to the top of pump, ground the pump cover) the linkage on the solenoid should move, if this works, move on to the linkage inside of the injection pump. Push on the linkage at the same point as the fuel solenoid does and cycle it back and forth, it should move very easily,

Thanks for answering, actually, before your response, I sort of did just that, first let me say fuel does go to the return line, as for the pressure, is anyone's guess, deffinitely have bubbles present. The bubbles only move with the electric fuel pump on, not with just the F.I. Pum on with key in on position, unless I crank which is obviously the manual pump and lift causing the fuel to move through. I did take off the cover and it was full of fuel from the Electric Pump, I know because I did it while the electric pump was on and as pushed fuel out of the pump, it kept filling back up. I tried to test the solenoid, but forgot to ground it, and I became the ground, little bit of a shock there. The linkage inside, when pushed with a screw driver seems to move freely, lots of pressure there on the springs. I can't seem to figure out where the solenoid pushes on the linkages at what point that is. That's why a diagram would really help. It would help if I knew just how that mechanism should look and function, my book doesn't have a good one. It just shows where the governor weight retainer ring is. It says to check it "rotate in each direction" but there is nothing there that rotates. Its the Haynes Techbook, I know, I should have gotten a service manual. I know I have to ground the cover and test the solenoid properly and make sure it's moving back and forth. My book says the cover is known as the "governor cover" all I have is an exploded view of it. I will see if I can scan what's in my book, or better yet, see if I can take a digital picture of the assembly itself, in the meantime I will do what has been suggested.
:grd:Thanks

Might be getting closer... But bubbles are BAD!!! Stupid question... you have crawled under neath and checked all connections and tightened all clamps? Have you tried f;ooring the peddle while cranking? I find my old tired motor fires off much better with half throttle than none. Just try having some one (after unplugging plugs) spray BOTH ETHER AND WD40 at the same time! The wd will provide some lube for when it fires. As soon as it chugs keep cranking a bit but stop the ether. Don't run it on ether but if it zooms once Leave it be and FIX THE FUEL DELIVERY AND RETURN SYSTEM!!!

With as long as this has gone on, your fuel's viability is SEVERLY jeopardized! 90 days in Florida weather and humidity is about max! You need to put an algicide fuel treatment in there. You could have a blob of gelled or algy at your pick up causing the pump to try to suck air from an otherwise tight fitting or through cracks in an old line. If you want to sell it cheap... let me know! Brent

Might be getting closer... But bubbles are BAD!!! Stupid question... you have crawled under neath and checked all connections and tightened all clamps? Have you tried f;ooring the peddle while cranking? I find my old tired motor fires off much better with half throttle than none. Just try having some one (after unplugging plugs) spray BOTH ETHER AND WD40 at the same time! The wd will provide some lube for when it fires. As soon as it chugs keep cranking a bit but stop the ether. Don't run it on ether but if it zooms once Leave it be and FIX THE FUEL DELIVERY AND RETURN SYSTEM!!!

With as long as this has gone on, your fuel's viability is SEVERLY jeopardized! 90 days in Florida weather and humidity is about max! You need to put an algicide fuel treatment in there. You could have a blob of gelled or algy at your pick up causing the pump to try to suck air from an otherwise tight fitting or through cracks in an old line. If you want to sell it cheap... let me know! Brent

Aw geez I don't know how much more of this I can stand! First let me say, no sale, lol, not till the rig starts, and then I plan on trading it for something more comfortable, we do live in it and it's pretty tight for two people and a cat! Yes of course bubbles are bad, that means it's sucking air, I don't know from where and as soon as I get some dry ground I'm going under with the electric pump on and checking for any fuel leaks or pinholes, if I can find any. I think I did try flooring it or at least at half and that's with the vacum assist on. Today I examined the vacum pump, by putting my finger on the end and it seems to draw the same pressure as the Mechanical fuel pump, but who knows for sure since I don't have a vacum gauge. The WD and Ether sounds like worth giving a "shot", exuse the pun. I totally agree with the fungicide. I have read about fungi getting in there and creating all kinds of problems. Do you recommend any specific brand or just go to the store and get some?
Thanks again.

Algae and fungus plug fuel filters, and thats about it. Obviously, thats not the case because you said you observed the electric pump push fuel through the injection pump.

As far as how the Shut off solenoid works, I don't know if you ever got it to close electrically, but you probably noticed that the big arm hanging out of the top cover can be pushed closed and it will spring back open, atleast it should. You really need to see if its pulling closed with battery power.

Now if you look inside the top of the Injection pump with the cover off you will see the throttle lever shaft going all the way across the pump to the face cam on the other side. In the middle, the shaft engages the governor control rod, you can watch it move forward and backward as you move the throttle lever.

The gov. control rod rides on the Guide Stud which is bolted in from the back of the gov. cover, its just a steel rod about 3/16" dia. At the back of the pump, under the guide stud of the Metering Valve, all you will really be able to see is to control lever thats attached to it.
The lever should still be black, and on the pass side of this lever is a short steel rod the attaches it to the governor linkage.

About half way up the linkage, just infront of the thottle lever is a slanted piece attached to it. This is what the shut off solenoid pushes back on to close the metering valve and stop the pump from pumping. The Shut-Off solenoid also has to pull closed to allow the linkage to move and the engine to run.

I haven't had a chance to recheck the F.I. pump cover, I will do that next, but I did spend about an hour under the rig, and checked for any leaks, I checked from the Tank rear to the mechanical pump up front. As far as I could tell other than a little fuel being present on a brass elbow that is connected to a hose that bypasses the hose that connects to the primary fuel filter,(I did that so I could connect the electric fuel pump inline.) There isn't anything that I could detect. Just for the hell of it I disconnected the hose that connects to the mechanical pump, stuck a clear plastic tube in it secured with screw clamp and put the end of the hose in a gallon jug. I toggled the electric pump and the bottle was practically full in a minute, with No bubbles, not even tiny ones, present in the tube. This leads me to believe that the air is being sucked in somewhere between the mechanical pump and the injectors? Any thoughts,on this? I will post my findings of the pump cover as soon as I can.
Thanks

But I'm kind of a wordy guy lol.
Well I retested the solenoid and the plunger of the solenoid moves freely and springs back and forth by hand, however when grounded and the key on, it does not make any movement whatsoever, the movement and clicking is coming from the part that I labled "works" in the photo attached. Is this serious or can it be replaced? There is an unidentified piece in the front left side, it has threads and it appears to screw into the corner there, it was loose as can be seen in the photo, it's kind of like a screw with a little hook on it. I tried to screw it back in with some needle nose, but couldn't get it back in, so I just put it back lose in the corner. I replaced the cover and took the return line off the nipple of the cover. With the key in on position, I observed one small bubble come out of the return. I cranked the engine and no fuel came out of the return Then I toggled the electric fuel pump and fuel spurted out, but stopped, I did the click test(remove the orange wire connector and replace) on the F.I. pump and when I did that fuel continued to come out, but not till then, apparently I set off something in the solenoid or something else. The same applied with the return line and clear tube, except that I could see the bubbles. Could it be sucking air from the F.I. Pump cover? Since the solenoid isn't responding?
Thanks, I hope the photos help. :)

Holy crap!!! that piece in you hand is the vent wire!
Without that the pump can't make any transfer pressure and housing pressure will be through the roof! I've never seen one just come out on its own like that, but it certainly won't run without it.

The solenoid that you labeled 'works' is the HPCA solenoid. dumps housing pressure and advances your timing a couple degrees to help the engine warm up when its cold.

Since it seems your shutoff solenoid isn't working what I reccomend you do is take the top cover to a fuel injection shop and have them replace it for you.

once you do that, you'll be ready to get this thing started!
All you need is a 1/8" allen driver. put the vent wire in the hole that it was sitting on top of, wire down, and tighten hand tight. Replace the top cover with your new shutoff solenoid and this baby WILL start.

Since it seems your shutoff solenoid isn't working what I reccomend you do is take the top cover to a fuel injection shop and have them replace it for you.H that piece in you hand is the vent wire!All you need is a 1/8" allen driver. put the vent wire in the hole that it was sitting on top of, wire down, and tighten hand tight. Replace the top cover with your new shutoff solenoid and this baby WILL start.

That's great to know, now all I have to do is find a place that can replace the shutoff solenoid, the closest cities to me are either Gainesville or Jacksonville. What about contacting the shop who overhaled the pump and see if if they have one I can order? If I understand correctly I just need to replace the shutoff solenoid not the whole cover?

Now as far the vent wire, "wire down", meaning the little hook goes into the hole, not threaded from the other side like I tried to do? I think i get it, it goes in wire first and threads in? I'm placing the photo of it here again for reference.
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7261&d=1123369005


So is it safe to say then, that, this is the main source of the air coming out of the return line as well as going to the injectors? It would seem that way to me.

I just did a search for "vent wire" on google and came up with this
http://www.oliverdiesel.com/tech/howdb2pumpworks.htm Looks very helpful and they have a forum, will keep you posted on what I find out.
I really appreciate all your guys knowledge and especially this great resource! :)

Has nothing to do with air, with out a vent wire your pump is leaking internally and can't develop pressure needed to fill the pumping plungers, operate the advance etc.

The 'hook' doesn't hook on to anything, its designed to be a small orfice to bleed air out of the system and provide a specific amount of return fuel to cool the pump.
The wire spins while the pump is operating to break up any debris that might be inside the pump that could plug the vent.

Since we know your solenoid is bad and you have to get it replaced, how's about I tell you how to rig it so you can atleast start this thing finally and then drive it somewhere?

All you have to do, is replace the vent wire, hand tight with an allen driver is good enough, then take the top cover, pull the shutoff lever closed, and then keep pushing it to bend the lever until its out of the way. Pretty much doesn't matter exactly how far you go, just go A LOT, your getting a new one anyway.
Replace the top cover and start her up.

Only down side is you won't be able to shut it off with the key.
To kill it, just take a pair of pliers and kink the return line off the pump, it will die in just seconds.

Well yes, of course I would like to start it, as for go somewhere I'm not sure where, it's not really ready move at the moment, we do have a small vehicle if necessary to go to the city. So if that's not where the air, is coming from, then where is it? Am I going to have bleed the injectors just the same for it to start, or is what you are saying to do enough? When you say push back the solenoid lever are you saying so it bends back and keeps it from moving back to open position?
Thanks

By the way Texasdiesel, I was actually thinking about a temporary fix, before you mentioned it and I"m glad you did! Ok I did as you said. I put back the vent wire, hand tightened. I pused the plunger arm in closed position, assuming closed position is the opposite of the position in the picture. With Electric pump off I cranked and no start, Gave it some gas no start. Sprayed some ether, it sounded like it was about to start. At that point I used up quite a bit of battery. So I had to wait to try again. Then with Electric pump on. At first I thought there were no more bubbles in the clear tube, but there they were! So I still have air, so I'm betting I have to blead the air out of the injectors, before it will start, but where is the air coming from? No response other than what I got with the Ether, threw in a little WD40 as well, I can feel it I'm getting closer, as to how it will run is anyone's guess :)

I have never seen so many posts to get something fixed. I think at this point I would have just got it towed somehow and then taken to a shop to get it fixed. At least you are learning something here.

I have never seen so many posts to get something fixed. I think at this point I would have just got it towed somehow and then taken to a shop to get it fixed. At least you are learning something here.

Yes I agree, it's really old, imagine what I'm going through! I didn't know a damned thing about diesel engines, cept that they can run of straightf vegetable oils, if modified. Then suddenly we buy this motorhome, to live in temporarily and I'm going in head first! Well like you said at least I'm learning something. :) Now if someone could answer my last two posts, I would be much obliged.
Thanks

I'm not sure by your description if we're on the same page about how to rig the shut off solenoid.
You have to push it closed, it springs back open to the shutoff position.
put a 3/8" openend wrench on the lever and bend it so when it springs back open it won't interfere with the linkage.
When you take the top cover off and put it back on its going to be full of air and your going to see it passing through your clear tube, but that won't keep it from starting.
You shouldn't even have to bleed the lines.

One other thing, i don;t know if it has been said since this post has gotten so long and and so many random paths seem to have been taken.
Eliminate the fuel supply, FIRST.
Get a 5 gallon can of diesel, take the hose from your electric pump, drop in the can, run thru a filter to the IP, return from pump back to can.
12 or 15 foot of fuel hose will do all this.
then you KNOW you have supply, with no air, and unrestricted return.
Put the pump back together, or start it with the cover off (probably not a good idea for inexperienced, and in an RV park).
Like said before, forget about the GLOW PLUGS, you won;t need them.
brian.

I'm not sure by your description if we're on the same page about how to rig the shut off solenoid.
You have to push it closed, it springs back open to the shutoff position.
put a 3/8" openend wrench on the lever and bend it so when it springs back open it won't interfere with the linkage.
When you take the top cover off and put it back on its going to be full of air and your going to see it passing through your clear tube, but that won't keep it from starting.
You shouldn't even have to bleed the lines.

I was afraid of that. ok, looks like I screwed up and did just the opposite, If I understand correctly the position the shutoff solenoid is in in the photo is the shutoff position, and I forced it into the open position, which means that it's still cutting off fuel? So what I need to do then is just reverse the position?, like what you are saying. I understand what you said about in the air tube, since that just goes back through the return to the tank. I will correct that and it should start right up.
Thanks

Eliminate the fuel supply, FIRST.
Get a 5 gallon can of diesel, take the hose from your electric pump, drop in the can, run thru a filter to the IP, return from pump back to can.
12 or 15 foot of fuel hose will do all this.
then you KNOW you have supply, with no air, and unrestricted return..

Myy tech book says I should do something similar,I did neglect to try it. It should have been the first thing I did. It says "Engine cranks normally, will not start" "Disconnect fuel return line at I.P. route to metal container, Crank the engine, If it starts and runs, correct restriction in fuel return lines, If it does not start, remove the top of the I.P. and make sure that it is not plugged. NOTE: If fitting is plugged and/or small black particles are visible in the pump, a governor weight retainer ring may be needed." I have a 5 gallon filled with fuel from about almost 4 months ago, that's been sitting, I don't know if that's reliable? I don't know if you saw my post, but I took off the hose that goes to the manual fuel pump and ran it to a gallon jug and it filled right up without any presence of air. I'm not sure which to do here, what you are suggesting or what the book says to do? When you say run through a filter, you mean make sure it runs throught the filter, because the electric pump is between the tank and the filter, so I assume it's going to run through the filter? Now do I need to this since I did what I said with hose that goes to the mechanical pump? I have to get some hose, I guess I'm off to the store then. I'm really burned out on this, sorry to have to take up all this space on this one problem.
Thank for all your help!

TBH, at this point just forget everything you have done.
from what i have read, it has been done, or not done correctly, or in the worng order to get a viable diagnosis.
Not trying to be mean, or hurt anyone feelings, but it needs to be checked right, and each problem eliminated as you go thru the steps.
So, first, make sure you have good steady supply of fuel with no air.
drop a hose in a bucket, run it to the liftppump of your choice, then to a filter (you can skip the filter if the fuel is clean, and bucket is clean. I do it lots)
then to the inlet on pump. I would pull manifold and go right to the pump with a new piece of hose.
then a return into a bucket.
forget GP's for now.
get the batteries up, a little gas on a rag, let a few DROPS into each intake port, and crank her over.
pay close attention to what is happening, IE, fuel is being drawn up into the lift pump, make sure the end of the return is submerged, and the bubbles should clear out shortly. Watch the exhaust, is there smoke present when cranking/ break an injector line loose, is there ANY fuel there?
then let us know the answers to these questions, and we can proceed.
brian.

Streamlined process of elimination, hey where was this post 2 weeks ago!

I'm positive he's found 'THE' (A?) problem inside the pump. This vent wire missing and shutoff solenoid not working would definitely not let the truck run at all and hopefully fixing it will be enough to start it.

True, maybe we can get him to bend or break off the shutoff lever, and go from there.
I can't believe how long this has went on, I just really started to notice it when I seen how many pages the thread was.
Decided maybe to take a look at it.

Well, I'm still wondering if I screwed up and rigged it in the shutoff position? If I need to break the shuttoff lever I need to know which it is. lol. So am I right the position it's in the photo is the open position, that is the way I should have left it, but with the lever, bent? Isn't there someplace online I can order a shutoff solenoid?
Thanks

Well, I'm still wondering if I screwed up and rigged it in the shutoff position? If I need to break the shuttoff lever I need to know which it is. lol. So am I right the position it's in the photo is the open position, that is the way I should have left it, but with the lever, bent? Isn't there someplace online I can order a shutoff solenoid?
Thanks

you can order one, but why?
why spend money on it that is not needed to see if it will run?
Just break off the part that hangs down and swings, then you eliminate that problem.
or take it out and put two small #8 screws and nuts, with rubber washer thru the mounting holes for the solenoid.
either way, i just can;t justify spending money on something til I know the engine is good enoughto be worht spending money on.

you can order one, but why?
why spend money on it that is not needed to see if it will run?
Just break off the part that hangs down and swings, then you eliminate that problem.
or take it out and put two small #8 screws and nuts, with rubber washer thru the mounting holes for the solenoid.
either way, i just can;t justify spending money on something til I know the engine is good enoughto be worht spending money on.

I agree, I was only asking, since I'm trying to be positive and anticipating that it will start with the pump solenoid gerry rigged like that, and then I can replace the solenoid like you said. Would the #screws etc. be the ones that are already holding the solenoid in place? If so then all I have to do is take out the solenoid and replace them.
Thanks

the studs are in the solenoid, you won't be able to take them out easily.

If you do just like I say, and bend the lever towards the front of the top cover and replace the vent wire, I'm betting it will start. The solenoid is bad, your going to have to buy a new one anyway so butchering this one won't hurt.

the studs are in the solenoid, you won't be able to take them out easily.

If you do just like I say, and bend the lever towards the front of the top cover and replace the vent wire, I'm betting it will start. The solenoid is bad, your going to have to buy a new one anyway so butchering this one won't hurt.

Ok, I'll do it, I already replaced the vent wire, so that's all I gotta do then. :)
Thanks

Well, I did exactly as you said and bent the lever in the open position. I put it back and replaced the return line, I cranked it but it wouldn't start. I let the battery charge up and went to try it again, this time I reconnected the glow plug relay, knowing I have two 6 volts and five 12 volts and one stuck 6 volt, went to try it again it struggled at first and wouldn't you know it, it started! I shut off by kinking the return line like you said. I didn't have the electric pump on when it started. I disconnected the G.P. relay and it would not start. I have to conclude that it does need the glow plugs heating up to start. One thing I did notice that has changed is that it will start with the vacum assist in the in /off position. Ok so now where can I get a new shutoff solenoid for the I.P.?
Thanks for all your help and knowledge, I would not have gotten this far without it, I hope to help others with what I have learned. :)

I can't seem to edit my last post more than 1x from what I can see, don't know if that's a glitch or a safegaurd on here. I was wondering if it would hurt anything to just leave the electric pump inline with no power or just keep it connected through the ignition switch and have it on. I really don't want to take it off and introduce more air into the system again, if I can I can avoid it. How realistic is it for me, now that I can start the engine to try the so-called "air hammer" approach to remove the stuck glow plug?
Thanks again

Hard to say with your electric fuel pump, I would just let it run in addition to your mechanical. You might have a delivery problem trying to suck through the pump if it is off. Not exactly sure, depends on what kind of pump you have. If it will pull fuel through without any problems, just hook up a toggle switch to it and then you have it when you need it like to bleed the fuel filters.
As for your fuel solenoid, do a search for Stanadyne fuel injection, any rebuild shop should be able to set you up. You might even find a good used one from a shop with plenty of cores.;)

Hard to say with your electric fuel pump, I would just let it run in addition to your mechanical. You might have a delivery problem trying to suck through the pump if it is off. Not exactly sure, depends on what kind of pump you have. If it will pull fuel through without any problems, just hook up a toggle switch to it and then you have it when you need it like to bleed the fuel filters.
As for your fuel solenoid, do a search for Stanadyne fuel injection, any rebuild shop should be able to set you up. You might even find a good used one from a shop with plenty of cores.;)

Ok, good idea on the electric pump. Now for the shutoff solenoid, is that something they are going to have to replace, or can I just order one from somewhere and replace it myself?
Thanks

went to try it again it struggled at first and wouldn't you know it, it started! I shut off by kinking the return line like you said.
Geez, I've been waiting for this post forever!!!

About your supply pumps, pick one or the other, run both of them doesn't matter that much, what does matter is fixing the fuel/air leaks in the lines.

The shutoff solenoid you could definitely change on your own, but it would be best IMHO just to give them the top cover and have them replace all the gaskets and set it all up for you.

Ok, so theres a good chance that there is air still in the lines? I don't see any evidence of fuel leeking. Roger on the pumps and shutoff solenoid. Can I use that 5 gallons of diesel fuel that has been sittting for the past 3 or 4 months in a plastic gas container, or should I just consider it contaminated? That's at least 10 bucks worth of fuel lol.
Thanks

Just bleed fuel out of the filterbase into a container and see if there is air in the fuel or not. Some at first will be normal because the system has been disturbed a lot in the past few weeks, so bleed it, run it for a while and check it again to see if there's more air in it.

Fuel sitting for a couple months shouldnt be that bad, just don't pour the last little bit in, in case there's water in the bottom. And add fuel conditioner to it.

Have you moved the vehicle yet?

Just bleed fuel out of the filterbase into a container and see if there is air in the fuel or not.
And add fuel conditioner to it.
Have you moved the vehicle yet?

When you say "filterbase" you mean the valve on the primary firewall fuel filter? No haven't moved it yet, gotta secure some things first, when I do, I will certainly drive it around the campground to make sure, there is no chance of it dying on me again, out there.
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I had no idea how much that part costs, till I started to call around, damn 80 bucks, well I think I'll take it to them and let them replace it for a few more bucks :)

Geez, its a good think you don't have a 98 Dodge, shutoff solenoid for a P pump is about $400!

Well that makes me feel a little better lol :)

Man, you have had this delima for quite some time. You must be retarted, oops, I mean retired! That was meant to only be a joke. But anyhow, I think at this point I would have lost all patience. How much longer till you give up on this? This post is not meant to offend, but man, I could not deal with this for as long as you have. I would have just bought something else buy now or done something else. IMHO!

Ok, I took her out for a test run the other day, noticed some fuel leaking not sure from where, could be from an injector return, since it wasn't connected properly with a line running back to the return line, I will have to correct it. Any reason I should be concerned about that stuck plug?. I tried to get her upto 20 MPH, but it seemed sluggish a lot of black smoke too, probably because it hasn't been run for so long. I will see if I can get out on the highway and get a better idea. Will get back to you.
Thanks