Seen/heard of quite a run on head gaskets lately. Got one in this morning, needs head gaskets, fuel rail (leak) and mulitlple injectors, just finished one yesterday (head gaskets) and did two previous to that in the last 2 months... A trend?

What were the model years and do the VIN numbers represent a possible production flaw or short-term Quality control problem? That would be my guess if this problem is otherwise uncommon. SPICER

What model years were they?


Not A good sign.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

i have had 2 trucks with head problems on was not the head but the bolt that clamps the injector down was over tightened and snaped off vechicle had just come off the truck and made one test drive only 20 miles or so. the damage was enough to replace the head. also had one that some how got the wrong gasket you know the a,b,c thing.
seen return lines lose this is the most commom thing i have seen more line than injectors. had a few pumps leak out of the front seal. i think you are seeing head gsks more due to our luck as techs. you know how you may see a problem of a constant week and then not see it for 5 months.in a cycle. like i had 3 trailblazers in a 2 week time with blown rear diffs thats a first for me.ect.ect.

A local cattle hauler has 8 dmaxes. His oldest is an '01 with over 200,000 miles and has had no problems except with being on his 2nd set of injectors on the '01 and has had injector issues with each one of his rigs including his newest '03. Reason for injector failure? Leaking seals and lines and rust on the injector tips. He has OEM filtering only and runs no additive.

I believe from what I've seen hanging around these forums since the beginning of the Duramax release I've heard of 10 ..... Looking around at memberships on these forums with non posting lurkers that are more then likely have a Duramax in their driveway are in the thousands ....


Lets gamble and say there was how many Duramax's sold in the three model years, anyone care to take a stab at it ??


What do you feel would be an exceptable Monday mourning mechanical failure return .....?? Defective part return ??





I think we worry to much ....


You have stock to people pushing 600 HP with these motors .... Your looking for a common cause ?? Good luck .....


Ease the seat back relax and enjoy the ride ....








Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gifEdited by: Mackin

Ease the seat back relax and enjoy the ride ....





Trying....

How can you call, "no problems except with being on his second set of injectors..." NO PROBLEMS?


If that comes out of your pocket that is a LOT of trouble in my book. Try that if it was 8 separate failures and breakdowns that cost appx. $1,000 each and all the time involved. Chances are multiple ones were replaced each time but you never know.


It's just seems to be very costly in many ways to keep a Duramax running. So costly that they are just not worth having out of warranty.


When Eric says ...."GM has got it together with the Duramax now", I'll switch back.

Seen/heard of quite a run on head gaskets lately. Got one in this morning, needs head gaskets, fuel rail (leak) and mulitlple injectors, just finished one yesterday (head gaskets) and did two previous to that in the last 2 months... A trend?

Eric did mine (head gaskets) yesterday.

Thanks Eric for a job well done. Got home 7:15 PM tonight.
Truck runs perfect.

I'll be posting pics shortly.

Here were my symptoms...

Pressurizing coolant tank and some overflow.
Intermittant low coolant light.
Engine temp swings.... to the cold side.

It was not using cooolant. Once it ejected about a quart or two, it simply kept raising and lowering the level.Edited by: hoot

Here's the pics... (http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/headgaskets/)

When Eric says ...."GM has got it together with the Duramax now", I'll switch back.


Enjoy that Dodge Larryhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif Its gonna be a while before I say that. I do like the engine, but GM is gonna have to pull there head from down below or things wont be any better. I think I seen a GM rep today..





http://dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/8BZ_headupass1.jpg

How can you call, "no problems except with being on his second set of injectors..." NO PROBLEMS?


If that comes out of your pocket that is a LOT of trouble in my book. Try that if it was 8 separate failures and breakdowns that cost appx. $1,000 each and all the time involved. Chances are multiple ones were replaced each time but you never know.


It's just seems to be very costly in many ways to keep a Duramax running. So costly that they are just not worth having out of warranty.


When Eric says ...."GM has got it together with the Duramax now", I'll switch back.





Its clear that the guy has water in his fuel with rust on his injector tips. That should be resolved first.

Has anybody attempted to contact G.M. about these concerns?

Thanks for posting the pics Hoot. Was that a new turbo with the blue caps?

Has anybody attempted to contact G.M. about these concerns? see above pics





the new turbo was for the truck next to hoots..

<DIV>Hay Hoot, </DIV>
<DIV>How many miles do you have on your truck?</DIV>
<DIV>In one pictures I seen A cylinder bore that still had cross hatch in it.</DIV>
<DIV>Block and cylinders must be made of A good grade of cast.</DIV>

Here's the pics... (http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/headgaskets/)

Nice pics, what was the new turbo for? And why was your front axle seperated for?

I must type r e a l l y s l o o o wwwww.Edited by: aketay

Well I guess that answers my question. Do you think a Duramx on level 5 in 4 low with a 40k tow strap could pull it out?

[/QUOTE]


Its clear that the guy has water in his fuel with rust on his injector tips. That should be resolved first.


[/QUOTE] This would be my guess also, maybe being a fleet of diesels with his business, he has his own above ground storage tank that has a water/contaminant problem.


Maybe our resident technicians have the best ability to give us an idea of true PERCENTAGES of troubled vehicles. One thing MUST be understood: Forums such as this one are a HAVEN for individuals with troubled vehicles.


As far as I can tell there are two primary types of individuals that frequent these forums. Diesel Enthusiasts and those looking for answers to their unfortunate mechanical problems. I'll bet that if we really think about it, every one of us falls into one of these two categories, maybe both. I for one am one who found the forums because of a dealer oversight. I had never even been on the internet in my life until I did my first oil change. I found 15 quarts of oil in my drainpan and FREAKED!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif Of course I wanted answers and I did not trust the dealers explanation so I ventured into cyberspace. In hindsight I am truly thankful for my crankcase overfill. Because of it, I have learned more about caring for my truck than I ever thought was possible.


I also was alarmed at all of the reports of failed injectors and other problems, but again we must recognize the profile of the typical diesel forum user.......Are you an enthusiast or did you find your way here because of a problem, looking for answers?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gifSPICER

Spicer has a valid point, and that tends to make problems look bigger then they are.. But when I see a bunch of problems on trucks from guys that have never heard of the 'place' 'page' 'tech' or others...that gets me more concerned..

SPICER


My guess is that he does indeed have his own storage tanks and that he is collecting moisture in a big way. I have been talking to him about filtering and additives to help him deal with some of these contaminates but first he needs to clean his source up. I know lots of guys in the farming business around here running Dmax without trouble as well as the Ford and Dodge although the Ford as of late has developed somewhat of a negative reputation with some of the farmers here with that new 6.0L PSD with bell housing leaks and injector issues.

dmaxalliTech, Just keep in mind also that people don't typically make an appointment to come to visit you because their truck is running flawlessly. By the nature of your work you are going to see all of the problem trucks. This experience can give you a skewed perception. Just because a doctor sees very sick people day after day, he does not assume that ALL people are sick.


As a tech at a dealership ask yourself this question and answer out loud for us to read here.......How many Duramax's has our dealership sold? Now, assuming that all the trucks sold by us are serviced by us, how many have had these problems?


NOW, you MUST NOT include those trucks serviced by you but not sold by you. YOU are also a haven for problem trucks because you are a well respected expert and people will travel great distances because they trust your expertise. Let us know....SPICER

What an 'ed u ma kay shun' I got from the 85 pictures. Hoot - Thanks!


No...THANKS! There really is a lot to learn from looking at all those pictures. Even Eric does about 9 cameo appearances and tries to steal the show from the turbo, injectors and gaskets. I say thank god for the warranty. Paying for all that, even with Eric, would be real rough. Paying for all that WOE (without Eric) would be a nightmare.


There's a lot of stuff to look at. I have to roll early tomorrow for about two weeks. This was my last chance for a while to see that and it was worth the time. On the other hand there sure is a lot of stuff to go kaflooey. What ever happened to the 'k i s s' principle?


Eric. Looks like I can turn off the hearing-aid battery for now. Clap loudly when you want to give me the word. No, that doesn't mean I'm waiting for you to give me the ....

Hoot,


What's this a picture of???


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/F36_untitled.JPG


CADman_ks

Spicer.. I must accept your offer to think aloud, but I cant hardly think to my self... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


In reality I must agree with you. I know I have serviced way more trucks then we have sold, and we frankly havent sold many until lately...but not counting those as you mentioned.


I think the amount of them that have had "serious" problems is nill. I talk regularly with the diesel tech at the chevy store next to us and he see's about the same number of trucks I do. Compared with the number of trucks running around, I think we see relatively few of them in reality. Keeping in mind that I draw trucks in from Vermont to Alaska (really) I see reletively few of them with problems. I think mostly I just get frustrated with GM and there piss poor attitude at getting these things fixed right the first time. I read all of these things about good/bad experiences at local dealer and am now seeing my dealer crack down hard on warrenty expenses.. I have to be very carefull about what I replace anymore. The ironic thing is that I can fix these things, where most dealers cant and repeat attempts at same problem but can get away with it becuase they might have lower warranty costs. Its a political BS game and frankly I am sick of playing it. I get caught in the middle of that chit all the time.. I obviously side with the customer as I know that these have problems. No secret on that. I try and fix a man's truck and I have to do it as cheap as possible, cut costs, cut quality right? I cant afford to take that gamble as I have customers traveling great distances to me.. Look at Hoot for example.. 12 hours plus each way. I cant skimp his job and save GM 200 bucks, if soemthing happens, who is the ass?? ME or GM? I just fixed it, who do you think? Its a bunch of freakin polical garbage. Sometimes I wonder if I would be better off going off away from the dealer.. Doing Duramax's still but not at a dealer. I wouldnt be able to warrenty them but whats the point, no money in it anyways. I love to be able to help out ya'll but sometimes I just have to wonder why I get caught up in it.


I try and do what I think is right by bringing in customers to the dealer, they spend a ton of money on maint and other non-warrenty work and of course, have some warrenty work done also. I have been involved in 3 truck sales.. Brought in to the dealer about 100k worth of service work in the last 8 months or so.. What does it get me? I am down on W-2 from last year 15k! I have started doing these things on my own now.. if you want something done under warr and your driving chevy, sorry, cant help you.. if you want it done and your gmc, bring it in.. if you want something done thats not warrenty. Meet me at my house. Thats the way it goes now, some of you know that already. Look at the stories of guys who have had mega hours into diag/repairing these trucks, you think GM is gonna pay them that? not likely. And we wonder why most dealers cant fix them, likely they can, but they dont like taking it in the arse because GM cant figure out that the 42 step fuel system diagnostics chart they give you to perform cant be done in .3 of an hour!! Most throw parts and then worry about it, not becuase the are incapable of fixing, but thats all it pays to do.. I cant do that because of what I am supposed to be, a diesel tech that has to fix them, putting my income aside for a bit to fix a mans truck. I dont know how many of these that GMCSID and patrick work on ,but I know that they know what I am talking about. Well, I think I have released enough steam..

Well said.....


Spicer as well......I agree, you hear more from the squeaky wheel....not the ones that are running smoothly.Edited by: BIG DIPPER

Great pics Hoot. Thanks!


Steve

Hoot,


What's this a picture of???


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/F36_untitled.JPG


CADman_ks Thats looking at the fuel line that hooks to the injector from the common rail.. That is the injector side. The clean area on the taper is where it seals to the injector, all of his looked like this and thus replaced all injector lines. cant risk it

Eric,


I feel your pain and am truly grateful for your input here!


I especially liked the picture of you lifting the head off the truck with one hand!


Try doing that with a F**d or a Do*g*. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

if you want something done under warr and your driving chevy, sorry, cant help you..








WOW, I hope this is you just venting, kind of hoping to get my work done by you, if need be.

John, unfortunatly, GM kaboshed us from doing crossline work at this time.. unless we sold it on used car lot..

DmaxalliTech,


I apllaude your honesty. It sounds to me like standard corporate B.S. I got away from corparate America just to realize corporations still run/ruin your life even if you do not work for one. Keep up the side work, it will pay off in the long run. Just watch out for those little commies at your local government. Last time I checked most municipalites do not allow two types of home buisness. Auto mechanics and beauty salons.Edited by: Bronco

Bronco, thats part of the reason I have an appt with CPA Friday. Gotta get legal for my website store and talk of getting legal with repair facility.....

Eric


That takes a lot of b$lls to say what you did and I thank you for your honest opinionhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifI am sure a lot of people[don't mean members here] did not want to hear what you said.TOO BAD FOR THEM.You really make this a great site


Thanks

Now you made my decision even harder Eric. Should I buy a chevy from the local dealer and get hosed on price, but have local warranty service, or go 100 miles away and get a gmc and have to take it there for service? Now you say I have to get the GMC because someday I will have to drive to MI to get it fixed right. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif Decisions decisions... Perhaps I should just buy the used chevy 03 cc/lb at the local ford dealer.. But it has 23k without a secondary filter. Still a deal at $32k though I think..


Didn't mean to take away from what you were saying, just thought I should mention that I don't even have a duramax yet and already wondering when I will have to take it to MI. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

scary huh? If I had a way to warranty them with out being affiliated to a dealer. I would have a toter with a 45' enclosed stacker trailer loaded with tools headin round the country

Eric,


Can't echo what nobull1 and the others are saying. I also agree wholeheartedly with SPICER's earlier statements. If the problems discussed in this and other forums are as widespread as we might imagine, no company in the world could continue to stay in business.


For every person that has an injector problem, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of perfectly satisfied customers who will continue to be brand loyal and never have a problem with their vehicles.


I personally may have only owned a grand total of 8 (soon to be 9) vehicles in my life, and have had a problem with only one (a used '85 Ford Escort, blew the transmission out of the thing [very definitely a result of my youthful lead-footed full-throttle clutch drops]). I have never, ever had a problem with any of the four GM products I have owned. Believe me when I say I drive my cars HARD, but I also take pretty good care of them when not behind the wheel.


I joined this forum because for the first time in my life I am buying a diesel. I really know very little about them, but even before I take delivery, I am genuinely interested in every aspect. I am an information junkie, so everything I can learn about anything is great for me. For me, anything and everything I learn improves my chances of having a vehicle that will have no problems and continue to improve my record of having a vehicle that will last forever and not have a problem. My only regret is that I don't really have any real information to add to the forum, instead I feel rather like a leach.


DennisEdited by: baimpala

Eric,


Can't echo what nobull1 and the others are saying. I also agree wholeheartedly with SPICER's earlier statements. If the problems discussed in this and other forums are as widespread as we might imagine, no company in the world could continue to stay in business.


For every person that has an injector problem, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of perfectly satisfied customers who will continue to be brand loyal and never have a problem with their vehicles.


I personally may have only owned a grand total of 8 (soon to be 9) vehicles in my life, and have had a problem with only one (a used '85 Ford Escort, blew the transmission out of the thing [very definitely a result of my youthful lead-footed full-throttle clutch drops]). I have never, ever had a problem with any of the four GM products I have owned. Believe me when I say I drive my cars HARD, but I also take pretty good care of them when not behind the wheel.


I joined this forum because for the first time in my life I am buying a diesel. I really know very little about them, but even before I take delivery, I am genuinely interested in every aspect. I am an information junkie, so everything I can learn about anything is great for me. For me, anything and everything I learn improves my chances of having a vehicle that will have no problems and continue to improve my record of having a vehicle that will last forever and not have a problem. My only regret is that I don't really have any real information to add to the forum, instead I feel rather like a leach.


Dennis





Eric said he thought that the amount of major problems was very small compared to vehicles sold.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gifMy statement was to mean that Eric is a big man to tell his opinion of the way things work in his business from a "inside" point of view,not many would do that.

Hey Eric, I have never come across a failed head gasket yet but we don't get a whole lot of Dmax's in our shop (about 3-4 per week). I was just wondering how a tech can diagnose a head gasket failure correctly?


With the injector sleaves being known to leak, how can one test weather coolant usage/combustion in the coolant is caused from a failed gasket or from a failed injector sleave?

.. if you want something done under warr and your driving chevy, sorry, cant help you.. if you want it done and your gmc, bring it in.


That sucks....BIGTIME!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif GM is really beginning to piss me off with this s**t. I have absolutely ZERO confidence in my local dealer, and had no problem making a trip to MI for work. Guess I have to start looking around now for a competent dealer (won't be easy), or trade in on a GMChttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif

To answer some of the questions posted..

Truck had just over 62,000 miles.

Like Eric said, that turbo was someone elses. Mine did show signs of blade erosion...

http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/headgaskets/thumbnails/DSCN4540.jpg

Also the pics of the front axle were someone elses. I just wanted to get a shot of the CAD system opened up. Had a little trouble with the camera focus.

After Eric finished up, we primed the fuel system and it started right up.... idling rock solid.

Drivers side head gasket was leaking second cylinder from the firewall.

Pulled all the injector cups and resealed them. They looked ok though.

He also replaced the RPCV. Took care of the lopey idle.

http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/headgaskets/thumbnails/DSCN4574.jpg
http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/headgaskets/thumbnails/DSCN4635.jpg

Injector balance rates are perfect.
I was surprised at how corroded the short steel injector tubes were that go from the rail to the injector. There's a tapered fitting that makes the seal at the injector. Just behind the mating area some sort of crazy corrosion takes place possibly due to electrolysis of disimilar metals or engine crankcase fumes. It doesn't do it at all the other similar fittings. It's not in the fuel stream but when you disassemble them flakes fall right into the injector inlet. GM's advice of cleaning before removing those lines is bogus. It's impossible to get to where the corrosion is until you remove the line. Eric used a SnapOn air powered vacuum gun that sucked the ends of the injectors clean. We replaced all eight tubes (like $80 each) but under warranty.


Michael Tomac stopped by yesterday.. got to go for a ride in the dragster... unfortunately it was blizzard conditions the entire time I was there. Last night temps were around zero.

I was blown away watching the mechanics all around tearing cars and trucks apart in the blink of an eye. Those guys are good. Eric just dove in and had parts laying all over the place... no labels, no organization. All ass and elbows. He put it together just as quickly as he pulled it apart.
So far truck seems perfect.Edited by: hoot

.. if you want something done under warr and your driving chevy, sorry, cant help you.. if you want it done and your gmc, bring it in.


That sucks....BIGTIME!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif GM is really beginning to piss me off with this s**t. I have absolutely ZERO confidence in my local dealer, and had no problem making a trip to MI for work. Guess I have to start looking around now for a competent dealer (won't be easy), or trade in on a GMChttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif








Well, I'm in MI and counted on being able to take my Chevy to Eric for any work needed. That plan seems to be toast if it's warranty work that's needed http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

Eric should just get on the Payroll next door ......... I'm sure his tool chest is on wheels .....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

problem is Mac,its still a dealer, and all dealers still SUCK INMO

problem is Mac,its still a dealer, and all dealers still SUCK INMO








True to an extent but GM sets the rules ....


Rule number one "We Don't sell warranty" .....


Rule number two "Refer to rule #1" ....


You know what I mean .... It's a tough game .... A tech sees the problem knows what's best but profit drives coroperations to make these decisions ...If it aint broke you can't fix it .... They don't work under the same reasoning a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure ... Don't give up,I still need injectors ....


Let me know when the tech next door is up to your standards and doesen't mind you peeking over his shoulder ...





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gifEdited by: Mackin

There ya go.....

Another reason GMC rules. They got better mechanics!

Edited by: hoot

I know if you have a 6.5 he is the man.. I would send mine over to him.. he does them daily, not quite as much anymore, but still does a ton of them. I might be sending a chevy over to him anyways,, the one i mentioned in opening comments. Head gaskets, injectors, fuel rail.

I cut one of those injector lines apart this morning to better view the corroded end. It ends up that it is a crusty buildup that looks a lot worse than it really is. Once you wipe off the buildup and flakes, there is very little dmamge to the mating surface itself. It looks like they could be cleaned up but it's difficult to get in there with any kind of tool.

The significance of this is whenever the injectors are touched, there is the chance a chunk of this trash could end up in the injector. That could explain multiple injector failures and problems after an engine had been serviced.

Again, cleaning the fitting prior to removing the lines will do no good. If the lines are re-used, it is imperative that the inside of the large fitting and the nipple be cleaned up. They would require aggitation and flushing. Also the fitting on the injector that this thing screws into must be sucked clean in a way as to avoid pieces being left in the inlet.

I remember this was talked about before but it needs to be re-iterated. It's very important that anyone removing these lines knows the deal.

I'll get some pics of the cut fitting tonight.

Look at the injector threaded fitting...

http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/headgaskets/images/DSCN4549.jpg

And again, the tube end.....

http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/headgaskets/images/DSCN4544.jpgEdited by: hoot

I can identify with what you're saying about dealers. I have a friend who was a D-C Master Tech just quit auto repair completely after 20 years. His grips were low hours paid on warranty, no pay on diags, upsells he did given to other techs, and a whole range of other issues.

CMERRICK, Just curious as to what line of work he went into. I have all those exact same complaints. I dont know what else to do and maintain my income level

Hoot,


Maybe you can sell your pictures to the Helms Tech Manual people. Sure would be a lot better than the Mickey Mouse drawings they have in the manuals. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif Seriously, I learned more about the engine in a few minutes of looking at your pictures than several hours of looking in the Helm manuals.

Hoot,


Maybe you can sell your pictures to the Helms Tech Manual people. Sure would be a lot better than the Mickey Mouse drawings they have in the manuals. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif Seriously, I learned more about the engine in a few minutes of looking at your pictures than several hours of looking in the Helm manuals.


Hoot got a good learning along the way, the pics are great, but its even better to be standing in the slime...Hoot knows what I meanhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Question...so if I move, does this mean I cannot get my truck serviced at any chevy dealer..only the one that sold the truck...I am not completely understanding your stand.

You can get your truck serviced at ANY Chevy dealer. You just have to find one that has diesel experience, specifically Dmax. You don't want anybody learning on your truck.

Question...so if I move, does this mean I cannot get my truck serviced at any chevy dealer..only the one that sold the truck...I am not completely understanding your stand.








If you own a Bow Tie you can go to any Chevrolet dealer you chose ... Most want to go to selling dealer to build a history in hopes they will desire your business and in the future and they will go to bat for you with questionable warranty and or repair issue ... By supporting this dealership I would also hope for better then average future sale prices on new purchases ... Not so sure if this practice still exist ... Seems the policy of "no ones your customer forever" prevails over all and most could careless ...





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Hoot,


Glad your back in action....Hopefully we'll get some snow soon.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gifWELL IF MY FUEL LOOKED LIKE IT CAME FROM A 5 GAL RUSTED JUG IN THE BACK OF MY TRUCK WITH NO LID I GUESS I WOULD HAVE INJECTOR PROB'S 2........DOES THAT MAKE IT USER ERROR? SOUNDS LIKE IT....

grady,

Thanks... I'm ready for snow now.

OK here are some closeups of the rail-to-injector fuel line.

The entire assy....

http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/fuellinecorrosion/thumbnails/DSCN4673.jpg

This is what they look like at the rail. Perfectly clean and uncorroded....

http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/fuellinecorrosion/thumbnails/DSCN4651.jpg

And this is what all of mine look like at the injector end.... I hacksawed the assy apart and Scotchbrited the rust and scale off. I guess it's worse than I thought....
http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/fuellinecorrosion/images/DSCN4653.jpg
http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/fuellinecorrosion/images/DSCN4655.jpg

Now I do believe those corroded lines will reseal just fine because only the very end that was protected by the sealing pressure itself is still in good shape. It's just all the garbage that was hanging in there that was scary to look at.

rickles04, I'm using fuel from various busy filling stations like everybody else..... except Georgecls. I'm also running a 2m secondary fuel filter and two water traps. It may be caused by trapped moisture but I see no way of avoiding naturally occurring moisture entirely.Edited by: hoot

Recently when I opened up by coolant reservoir, I got a big whoosh of air.


Is this the "Pressurizing coolant tank" symptom???


Gosh I hope not.


Truck seems to be running fine.


Scary pictures, though, Eek.


Rick

Hoot,


Are the lines steel or stainless. Did you notice any problems with the inside of the tubes?

Campfire_Rick...

The system by default when hot should be running under pressure. If the tank is ALWAYS under pressure... cold or hot... then you could have a problem. If your coolant level remains stable and your engine temp remains stable... you should be fine. If your coolant level is a little low, you should be able to open it up with no pressure when she's cold.

Dave,

The lines are not stainless. The insides look fine. The steel tubes are very thick.

Hoot wrote: He also replaced the RPCV. Took care of the lopey idle


Hoot,


I have notice my idle is not as smooth as it once was. It is probally not any type of major problem because all else seems well. What is the RPCV? How would I go about getting my dealer on the right track?

Bronco,

Poor idle characteristics is not always attributed to the Rail Pressure Control Valve (RPCV). It can also be caused by poor fuel, dirty fuel filter, injector balance rate problem (possible bad injector) among other things.

The symptoms of a faulty RPCV is a small, quick surge every couple of seconds.... after the engine is fully warmed up.

The RPCV is mounted to the high pressure fuel pump on the top of the engine, up front, in the valley.... It's that little motor thing with the connector on it sticking out the back on top of the pump.


http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/headgaskets/thumbnails/DSCN4574.jpgEdited by: hoot

Hoot,Do you think your propane had anything to do with the headgaskets going? I have a Ford 7.3 IDI w/Banks turbo I ran fogged that I have to replace a headgasket on,so I can sell it.I 'm pretty sure that is what did mine in.I had it cranked up though,only way to make it run.

Hoot,Do you think your propane had anything to do with the headgaskets going? I have a Ford 7.3 IDI w/Banks turbo I ran fogged that I have to replace a headgasket on,so I can sell it.I 'm pretty sure that is what did mine in.I had it cranked up though,only way to make it run.

Really hard to say. Others have had blown head gaskets without lp while others are literally beating the living crap out of these engines with no issues.

What was up with the turbo? I wouldn't think it would look that bad...there was alot of ware on the compressor at 60,000miles.

Holly crap! Hoot, your running a propane set-up and DmaxalliTech did this work under warranty!?!?!?!?


Did he know you had this set-up? Did he just not care?


You're one lucky guy to get that kind of work covered under warranty if you have a propane set-up.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

CMERRICK, Just curious as to what line of work he went into. I have all those exact same complaints. I dont know what else to do and maintain my income level





He's currently in school for insurance appraising/adjusting. He wanted to leverage his repair knowledge and not have to do the actual repairs.


Carl

Yea my compressor wheel had some erosion but it's ok. That new turbo was for another truck.

1fatcat.... think you can scream that a little louder http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Hoot,


Thanks for the info. on the RPCV.

Hoot,


Thanks for the info. on the RPCV.

Bronco..... there's a TSB on it and it's a 40 minute job. Warranty of course.

It's unfortunate that dealers offer no incentive for good techs to stay.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif And in the end both sides get screwed, the consumer, and the manufacturer through wasted parts and time through mis-diagnosis. Edited by: Big P

Hoot


Wasn't expecting that response,sorry.

hoot:


What type of air cleaner are you using? Seems odd to have so much erosion on your compressor.

Holly crap! Hoot, your running a propane set-up and DmaxalliTech did this work under warranty!?!?!?!?


Did he know you had this set-up? Did he just not care?


You're one lucky guy to get that kind of work covered under warranty if you have a propane set-up.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif I was all over that truck and I didnt see any thing funny, besides, can ya prove propane had anything to do with it? Especially when the others I have done/seen are on stock trucksEdited by: dmaxalliTech

Hey Hoot, sorry for that, but actually it was Bullseye54 that pointed it out…and if a guy were to look back far enough, I’m sure he would find that it was actually you that pointed it out.

Don’t worry I’m not going to say anything to anyone who would care. But I would like to say that what happened here is wrong.

That truck should not have been covered under warranty and I think we all now that now. I’m actually a little surprised that DmaxalliTech even fixed it!

I personally would have made sure that your warranty was void before you could even leave the dealership with your truck. It’s not that I have anything against you or performance mods, but it’s people like you and techs like DmaxalliTech that hurt GM’s financial stand point. Which in turn hurts my paycheck!

I know I’m going to get flamed like mad for this post because of DmaxalliTechs fans here, but I just have to voice my opinion on this one.

I’m guessing the only reason that he “covered” for you is because he is a performance freak himself? His truck is pushing something like 700 horse? Right?

Well, I’m sure that you know what a head gasket is designed to do…contain cylinder pressure. When you start adding propane to the mixture, you just increased the cylinder pressure.

GM didn’t design the head gaskets to hold the cylinder pressures that are created with the addition of propane. I’m sure you and DmaxalliTech know that too.

What really gets me is the way this thread started out…” Are injectors the big problem or do we have other issues deveoping??

Do you realize DmaxalliTech what kind of a message your sending out to Duramax owners/prospective buyers when you make such a statement? Your stating that the Dmax has premature head gasket failure under normal operating conditions!<

Your computer has got the P-NUT virus. MICE!!

Holy Crap Batman, ain't the internet fun! We all know Hoot blows a lot of smoke, his truck is stock, pure stock otherwise it would have moved fast out of the way of that tree a few months ago....LOL

1fatcat,

How far up GM's rear are you man? The only ohnest? Where'd you learn how to spell? Last time I checked it was Honest. I bet you have never done anything wrong in your life have you bud? Give me a freaking break.

'I’m guessing the only reason that he “covered” for you is because he is a performance freak himself? His truck is pushing something like 700 horse? Right?'

What's this all about there? You're guessing? What you don't know? You claim to be GM's loyal terrier, how is it that you need to guess? My [insert word(s) here] how can you say such a thing if you honestly don't know? Are you just begging to be crucified??? Best thing to do in the future is to chill the heck out before you write something that you have absolutely no clue as to what actually happened. So in closing just because I don't feel like typing anymore...

This one's for you:

http://images.art.com/images/PRODUCTS/shdws/regular/10099000/10099745.jpg

Compliments of,

Wolverine

Take care now bye bye then...(probably for good)

Hmm, my truck is making 700 hp? I wished it drove like that.. I am suprised I havent had to replace the engine already because with all that power, I must have rods hangin out the sides.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


I dont understand how this repair is such a big suprise, Of all of the head gasket jobs I have done, they have all failed in the same way, you see the pics Hoot took, Perhaps the fella who came in the next morning after hoot left, with 71k on his 01 can explain it. His truck is highly modified, it has 265 tires on it. Oh, and a tonnou cover. I guess thats why he also has the exact symptoms as Hoot, oh, and injectors that are WAY out of spec on balance rates and a leaking common rail.. Maybe the radar detector caused that?


Perhaps the insurance adjuster from Chicago who's truck had leaking head gaskets and also a injector body leak and fill the crank case can attibute his failure to his laptop on his armrest?


I dont think I am responsible for 'ruining' GM's finanial future. I was not involved in any design process on these parts. If GM goes bankrupt tomarrow and I get called to court, I will be expecting it, as you warned me already.


How much does NOS add to cylinder pressure? How can a guy run NOS and beat the piss out of his truck, and have no problems with the motor what so ever and they local farmer cant pull wagons through his field with out having a potential injector failure? While many suspect that performance mods contribute to failures, I have yet to see any proof. Howmany times has it been said that the truck actually runs better with a Juice on a low level? More times then I can remember.
"Do you realize DmaxalliTech what kind of a message your sending out to Duramax owners/prospective buyers when you make such a statement? Your stating that the Dmax has premature head gasket failure under normal operating conditions!"

Sometimes the truth hurts huh? I wish they didnt have any problems, but I am not gonna hide from the fact that they do.

"May I actually be bold enough to say, an OHNEST tech?"

You may make any allegation (sp*) you wish, just a good idea to have some backing on that. I will make no indications of myself on that, sounds like most have opinons already. Thats fine, I know whats in my heart, and thats all that matters.

"
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that you are a bad technician, obviously you are a great technician. But are you a dedicated company man?"<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; mso-bi

[QUOTE=1fatcat]
Hey Hoot, sorry for that, but actually it was Bullseye54 that pointed it out…and if a guy were to look back far enough, I’m sure he would find that it was actually you that pointed it out.

Don’t worry I’m not going to say anything to anyone who would care. But I would like to say that what happened here is wrong.

That truck should not have been covered under warranty and I think we all now that now. I’m actually a little surprised that DmaxalliTech even fixed it!

I personally would have made sure that your warranty was void before you could even leave the dealership with your truck. It’s not that I have anything against you or performance mods, but it’s people like you and techs like DmaxalliTech that hurt GM’s financial stand point. Which in turn hurts my paycheck!

I know I’m going to get flamed like mad for this post because of DmaxalliTechs fans here, but I just have to voice my opinion on this one.

I’m guessing the only reason that he “covered” for you is because he is a performance freak himself? His truck is pushing something like 700 horse? Right?

Well, I’m sure that you know what a head gasket is designed to do…contain cylinder pressure. When you start adding propane to the mixture, you just increased the cylinder pressure.

GM didn’t design the head gaskets to hold the cylinder pressures that are created with the addition of propane. I’m sure you and DmaxalliTech know that too.

What really gets me is the way this thread started out…” Are injectors the big problem or do we have other issues deveoping??

Do you realize DmaxalliTech what kind of a message your sending out to Duramax owners/prospective buyers when you make such a statement? Your stating that the Dmax has premature head gasket failure under normal operating conditions!</FON

Sorry for misspelling "honest", Mr. one post. I was guessing???at the horse power because I could not remember the exact numbers...that is usually why people guess.


Eric had it posted at one time, somewhere.


You don't like it that I am loyal to GM? I'm sorry! How can I make you, the customer, like me better? Sould I lie, cheat and steal for you? Would that make you like me better?


Or maybe I should lie, cheat and steal FROM you?...Would that help?


Because I can do the first and in turn drive up the price of your next GM vehicle....If that is what you want?


Then again, you could buy a Dodge or a Ford and listen to all of their HONEST replies on the internet!


Who here has reason to lie?!?!?......NOT ME!!!!!!!!!!!

I am yet to even here of a duramax with 700 hp... I would be happy with 400 in mine...course, that would voidmy warranty

My first impression was don't touch this with a 10 foot pole, and then I figured a little humor never hurt anything. Well now here comes the serious part junior. I was once young like you. Working for a corporation, future was bright, full of enthusiasm, had the world by the tail. Almost instintcively I figured some how if I could just kiss enough arse that the big man would come down and thank me personally. He might actually give me something back for all of my extra hard work and arse kissing. In your case you figure Mr. G.M. might come down and thank you. You probally figure he might even give you something. Maybe he will give you one of his vacation homes or let you take his yacht around the coast of the united states. GET IN LINE! It is a long line and you will be waiting for a long time. I truly do appreciate your work ethic and youthfull enthusiasm. Only more years will temper you.


I understand that there are always abusers of every system. You might even know a few yourself. These abusers in the auto industry are the very abuser that advance technology itself. All performance improvements in the history of the automobile were generated by the enthusuaist. Either in there garage or at the track. You get the point.Auto manufactures would never ever improve a product if they did not have to. This cost them money. They only do it out of necessity. The customers(you and me) are the driving force. When you view these post on this website you are literally watching history unfold before your very eyes. Think about it!


Now on to the bad news. This same corporation you are defending is even trying to irradicate your very job. When is the last time you changed a belt? Do you see the trend. They are constantly trying to make vehicles that require no service or maintenace of any kind. Your salary is very,very expensive. They pay engineers 10 fold your wages to design a vehicle that does not require you, the technician. At the shop you only see the failures. I know this is harsh but you seem like a mature individual who can handle just about anything. This same dealer that you are defending actually prefers you do not fix things correctly the first time. I have even read articles decribing a 3 time into the shop policy. Meaning we will get it right the third time after we bilk G.M.


I could go on and on but I think that would be unkind and uncalled for. You see my brother there is always more than meets the eye. Keep up the hard work and never put all of your eggs in one basket.


"Don't let a $4 bottle of additive void the warranty on your $40,000 truck!" quote from 1fatcat.Edited by: Bronco

My first impression was don't touch this with a 10 foot pole, and then I figured a little humor never hurt anything. Well now here comes the serious part junior. I was once as young like you. Working for a corporation, future was bright, full of enthusiasm, had the world by the tail. Almost instintcively I figured some how if I could just kiss enough arse that the big man would come down and thank me personally. He might actually give me something back for all of my extra hard work and arse kissing. In your case you figure Mr. G.M. might come down and thank you. You probally figure he might even give you something. Maybe he will give you one of his vacation homes or let you take his yaght around the coast of the united states. GET IN LINE! It is a long line and you will be waiting for a long time. I truly do appreciate your work ethic and youthfull enthusiasm. Only more years will temper you.


I understand that there are always abusers of every system. You might even know a few yourself. These abusers in the auto industry are the very abuser that advance technology itself. All performance improvements in the history of the automobile were generated by the enthusuaist. Either in there garage or at the track. You get the point.Auto manufactures would never ever improve a product if they did not have to. This cost them money. They only do it out of necessity. The customers(you and me) are the driving force. When you view thes post on this website you are litterally watching history unfold before your very eyes. Think about it!


Now on to the bad news. This same corporation you are defending is even trying to irradicate your very job. When is the last time you changed a belt? Do you see the trend. They are constantly trying to make vehicles that require no service or maintenace of any kind. These things(your salary) are very,very expensive. They pay engineers 10 fold your wages to make a vehicle that does not require you, the technician. At the shop you only see the failures. I know this is harsh but you seem like a mature individual who can handle just about anything. This same dealer that you are defending actually prefers you do not fix things correctly the first time. I have even read articles decribing a 3 time into the shop policy. Meaning we will get it right the third time after we bilk G.M.


I could go on and on but I think that would be unkind and uncalled for. You see my brother there is always more than meets the eye. Keep up the hard work and never put all of your eggs in one basket.


"Don't let a $4 bottle of additive void the warranty on your $40,000 truck!" qoute from 1fatcat.











That is a nice fairy tale to believe in nowadays, fact is, it will be a very long time before there is a trouble free vehicle.


Why, I myself have a concept in my head that uses one moving part, no belt driven accesorise, completely self contained fluid system (all hydrolics inside the powerplant), and a fuel control system that is at least 100% more efficient than the most efficient auto on the road today!


I KNOW your all laughing by now, but I'm not kidding!!!


The "NEW" technology is not relying upon electricity, solor power, or even hydrogen.


All I can say right now is that the most efficient internal combustion engine to date...is still only 28 % efficient!!!!!!!!!!!!!


THAT INCLUDES DIESELS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

1fatcat,


They are so far ahead of you. The auto makers are inbed with the petroleum industry. The technology is already availible, they just have not given it to us yet. You sound like a intelligent young man. Don't let pride blind you. Good ideas are always an asset to this country. You sound like you have many. I was dreaming of adjustable compression rates inconjuntion with adjustable valve timing all included in the closed loop. Come to find out the patents were in place long before the Auto makers ever put it into an automobile. I think I saw your little invention on Startrek about 15 years ago.

My bladder is empty, you win.

Wow, what an exhausting and enlightning thread. After reading all the posts I must say I am very sympathetic to the environment in which GM techs must work these days, the red tape they must go thru to fix trucks "right the first time". I find it rather comical that GM has a "Fix it right the first time" programed aimed at reducing warranty costs by repairing vehicles correctly on the first visit when the fact of the matter is the internal politics between dealers and manufacturers, efforts to cut costs, etc. most likely negate the goal of the program altogether. In the end, the techs and customers are the ones that lose. I admire and have very high respect for dmaxalliTech and other techs of his caliber who view the warranty puzzle from the customer perspective. It's just unfortunate we don't have more like'em.

Alright well I hate to break the Mr. One Post, http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif but it would seem that I took a bit of fire there. lol

It's great that a Large company such as GM has a loyal and honest worker such as yourself. But remember no big corporation anywhere in the US or the world cares about the little guy, they can be replaced with the flick of the wrist and rehired several times.

Yes you may be able to get it done right the first time, and that's very admirable, but I doubt everytime. If you could get it done right everytime the first time, then why not everyone come to you? Why are you still working for GM when you could be out in your own business? You see what I'm getting at, you can't be flawless you're human. The point is we are all human, we make mistakes no matter what anyone else says anywhere, you will make a mistake.

Now as far as lying, cheating, and stealing, I myself have no reason to lie, cheat, nor steal, nor tolerate those who do. Yes they are wrong. But I don't believe that what Eric did was all wrong, these trucks have issues like he said and why shouldn't it be covered, if it cannot be related to the mods that may have been on at the time of repair or may not have been?

The way that a lot of dealerships make their money is in the service. They want it to be done the cheapest, not necessarily the shortest amount of time, where's the money in that right? But then the dealership that I had a routine service appointment at a few months ago; said when they checked the fluid levels in the axles that they added more synthetic to it, and that it would be covered under warranty because it was 'leaking.' Which was BS, it wasn't leaking. It would seem that this type of service is practiced in more than one state and by more than one tech and service mgr. Most likely because we the paying customer like to get a lil freebee every now and then we like to be happy. That's the way it is Customer Service, it'll make you or break you. Who knows why?

I bought a GM product because I've always had a GM product, and will always have one. I find them to be of a higher quality and most of the service techs know a lot about what they're doing, though they need a little guiding sometimes. But if you knew everything you wouldn't keep working in that field would you? Where's the fun in that. To date I have had no problems with my Dmax. But things break and wear over time, made by humans for humans, I mean it will happen. I don't plan on buying another one for some time, I plan on making it last as long as possible, but if I need to buy a new one then so be it, I will gladly go to the GMC or Chevy Truck dealer and buy another one, just like the one before if not better.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif Edited by: Wolverine

1fatcat,


Another perspective that mirrors what Dmaxallitech discussed; I haven't spent a lot of time on this forum since I only recently ordered my first diesel, and admittedly don't know much about diesels. I do however have a '96 Impala SS, heavily modified, and have never had even a minor problem with that car.


You can rest assured that as soon as I get my truck, the mods will start, and probably never stop. The point is that I agree with Eric, you can't prove that modification causes problems. Here I am with a car that has more mods than I would care to list, yet I know plenty (probably on the order of 100 or so) other owners personally that own the exact same car as I do, completely stock that have had electrical problems, ignition problems, etc. with that car, and I know at least 100 others that have cars that are as modified as mine and even more that have only had to replace rear tires every couple of months.


There obviously hasn't been any real statistical analysis here, but I would certainly say that you probably could not support with the empirical data that modification can be linked to a higher failure rate or a decrease in mean time between failures, in general. That doesn't mean that a particular modification would not or could not cause a specific failure. I would say that most people that modify their vehicles in the name of performance are willing to accept the potential marginal increase in failure that might accompany that modification.


Dennis

Another point I forgot to add, is that although GM products may have some engineering flaws, the companies that produce performance modifications are more likely to produce a product that has superior engineering and quality control due both to the smaller production volume and also to the fact that if a company produces a product that causes damage to the target vehicle, it will absolutely not stay in business. There are exceptions to this rule, look at all the vehicle bras that are sold that do significant damage to the finish of the target vehicle, or a little closer to home the drop-in bed liner that scratches and traps moisture causing significant corrosion to truck beds.

Hoot, Dmaxallitech,


We need more pictures. Can you take something else apart and put it back together for all of us to enjoy watching and reading about?

1fatcat:


This post is not intended to flame you. I just want to point a few things out.


While I admire your honesty, I feel your unyielding corporate mindset may be a problem for you in the future. The reason I feel this way is because my GMC truck was made in Mexico by Mexican Nationals. Not in the United States Of America by members of the United Auto Workers Union as it should have been for the price I paid. The last part I ordered from GMpartsdirect.com was the center 3 bulb marker light assembly for the cab of my truck. The assembly, a genuine GM factory part, was marked as "Made In China." The "Made In China" light assembly replaced a light assembly that was "Made In The USA."


Hopefully, you have started to see a pattern. You may be next. The next thing GM will do, once our President grants criminal Illegal Aliens the status of quasi-United States Of America citizens, will be to replace you with one of them. They will work for far less than you do. They will be happy to live in the subsidised housing we provide for them. They probably won't even ask for health insurance since we foot the bill for that already. They will be a great asset to a Global company like GM. And I'm sure they will even smile at the bank tellers when they use their legal bank account to send their paycheck back home to Mexico, China, some 3rd world muslim country, ect. ect., you get the idea.


I guess my point is that regardless of your blind loyalty to GM, they will drop you like a cheap whore if NAFTA and our Federal Govt. will let them. I won't even go into how fast they will lose you if you are injured on the job. Look around you, watch the news, great American dream type jobs are leaving the U.S.A. and never comming back.


So... the next time you feel like it is your sworn duty to GM to void some good ol boy's warranty because he used a $4.00 bottle of fuel additive with alcohol in it; I hope you think twice.


Sometimes the customer should be treated like a king even though your employer looks for a reason to treat them with disdain. I have a feeling this is the business model Dmaxallitech subscribes too, and I applaud him.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif It might suit you well in the future to do the same. The Customer you screw over because of your corporate loyaty may be the only employer left when as Ross Perot said the "Giant Sucking Sound" of jobs leaving the United States hits your neck of the woods.


God Bless America

I wish every tech that ever worked on one of my trucks was a clone of Eric. They generally break two new things to fix the one problem I had. The price of these trucks and the fact that they want you to believe they will run at least 200K with no problems means that G.M. and all their employees should kiss your ass when you come into the stealer to get your perfect truck repaired with no questions asked. I have had work done on my trucks before with 60K+ on the odo and raised a little hell with G.M. and they always wind up sending me a check to cover the repairs. I just tell them if you want me to keep spending 50K every two years and not switch to Ford they had better keep me happy. It seams they must like to sell new trucks because they have always seen it my way. Over and Out.

fatcat...

Here's my side.

GM has all the cards. They have all the data on failures. They know how many headgaskets have been replaced, how many injectors have gone bad, how many junction blocks have sprung leaks and on and on .... extrapolate that out to all the models. GM has a corporate database that we as consumers do not have access to. They have the upper hand.

Now take the lowly consumer.... possibly using his vehicle for business, commuting to and from work..whatever. His vehicle breaks down. The breakdown is one of the common problems in GM's data base that shows a flawed component. This guy loses money in the process by missing work, possibly missing a big day financially, or maybe something important familywise. GM honors its end and repairs the vehicle but puts it's hands up when asked about reimbursement for personal losses. "NO we don't cover that" The consumer says.... "wait a minute... it was your flawed engineering that caused my loss". Then the vehicle breaks down again for the same thing or something else. GM does not make an engineering fix.. but chooses to repair with the same defective parts.

All I'm saying here is you are crying foul but you need to look at the big picture. It's the consumer that gets the shaft most if not all the time with regards to warranty. The few that get things done that are questionable are a drop in the bucket compared to the ones getting screwed by broken down and undrivable true warranty situations.

Although I do not disagree with your corporate philosophy, you're on the wrong side of the fence. Forget the few and look at the many...

Stand up for the Cold Start Knock consumers....
The guys that are running 100% stock and have had their trucks in for multiple injector failures. Where are your long rash posts against GM in those cases?. How about the 6.5 diesel that went through multiple injection pump failures back in the mid nineties.... people paid big bucks for these vehicles only to be stranded and put in the shop MULTIPLE times and for weeks on end.... what about them? Where's the justice there. GM continued replacing the pumps with flawed replacement parts.

Billions of dollars are lost by the consumer at the hands of automakers and flawed engineering... Who stands up for them?

As far as dmaxalliTech is concerned.... My truck was diagnosed with a head gasket failure and nothing on the truck flagged him for warranty issues.

As far as me and my truck is concerned...

I probably post the most pictures of anyone on the internet with regards to Duramax trucks. Notice there are no pictures of me drag racing, sled pulling or anything that shows me beating the crap out of my truck.

You know why? You can't take pics of something you haven't done. I have the original Allison tranny with only Transynd fluid and the deep pan. My tranny is tight as a drum and has never been serviced. That in itself is a testament to how I treat my truck. My opinion as well as the GM dealer that serviced my truck was that this was a warranty issue.

Niether I nor the GM dealer that serviced my truck are obligated to prove anything to you.

Again.... there are many many trucks out there doing a whole lot more than I've ever done and have not blown headgaskets.

Sorry for misspelling "honest", Mr. one post. I was guessing???at the horse power because I could not remember the exact numbers...that is usually why people guess.


Eric had it posted at one time, somewhere.


You don't like it that I am loyal to GM? I'm sorry! How can I make you, the customer, like me better? Sould I lie, cheat and steal for you? Would that make you like me better?


Or maybe I should lie, cheat and steal FROM you?...Would that help?


Because I can do the first and in turn drive up the price of your next GM vehicle....If that is what you want?


Then again, you could buy a Dodge or a Ford and listen to all of their HONEST replies on the internet!


Who here has reason to lie?!?!?......NOT ME!!!!!!!!!!!





I think you should look at your company real close Mr. GM company man.You are here judging what we do to our trucks while defending GM.Why don't you ask your boss why they use a poor quality fuel filter on a very expensive engine. Ask them why most of the axles come thru underfilled. Ask them why they got cheap and replace half the injectors when they should all be replaced when some failed. Ask them why they raised the price of the truck and took away the under hood and under dash lights. Ask them why they try to weasel out of paying warranty repairs and lok for loopholes at every chance.


******* you might see the big picture. Gm has design flaws in this truck. They know it and you know it. Hiding behind a bottle of additve or the fact someone has oversize tires is a lame ass way to be . Glad you are proud of it.


Edited


EDITED BY HOOT


Jesse James


On Edit..... lets not get too personal guys.
HOOTEdited by: hoot

ok let me add to the firehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif I work for DMax itself, and i dont care what anyone says about my company and actually, DMax engineers do run engines everyso often in hot test on Propane, thats our job, to push our engines to the max, yes the LB7 head gaskets sux, trust me ive seen many upon many fail, but we have a tolerance of .020 if i remember corectly, with the LLY we dont have HG leaks like we used to...any engine has there problems, it just so happens, that with a new engine, and a new company, the bugs are still getting worked out. I work for GM too, but i dont care what u say, i still work, and i still stand by my company..ok im done:)

kool,

What do you mean by .020 tolerance?

Wow, this thread took one hell of a turn from the original topic!


I'm an owner, not a tech, but I have friends who are, and I'm sure that Eric is the man I'd ask for if my truck needed work, warranty or not, if I was in that neck of the woods.


1fatcat, let me relate to you a tale of corporate heartlessness, I spent 23 years with Northwest Airlines as an aircraft machinist at their Atlanta, GA facility.


It was a good place to work, the pay and benefits were good {thanks to our union contract}. The co pres even came down from Minneapolis, made speeches to all of us about how great we were doing in ATL, and that our future was bright.


Then only a year later, he sent his hatchett man down and gave us 60 days notice that the facility was closing because our main work, overhaul of JT8D jet engines, was being moved to MSP and reduced greatly in scope because of the huge number of engines available from other airlines' parked aicraft with that engine. They were able to lease these servicable engines on a more or less "power by the hour" basis,and we were no longer needed!


2000 people were furloughed, and given the right to use their seniority to uproot their lives and move to other stations, or to stay home and try to start a new career elsewhere.


I was able to retire,but others were not so fortunate, and have had to make choices that were tough. People have had to spend a fortune to move across the country, only to be bumped again, some moved and then got laid off again. Many tried to leave their families here, and commute back and forth on weekends, etc.


We have had divorces, deaths {I believe both are from the stress}, and all sorts of troubles from this.


Now I gather you are a tech, and as such I wouild think you are an employee of the dealer, rather than GM, unless you work for some sort of corporate owned dealership.


So you may not be as far from the decision making people as we were, but believe me, if there is a way that the bean counters can save money by eliminating you, you better hang on to your butt!

GM may think otherwise but they would be money ahead if all the techs operated like Eric IMO. Too bad it seems like corprate BS might be sending him over the edge. I hope someone higher up reads this and takes it to heart. Service is a big reason I buy stuff and I will pay a premium to be treated with premium service. If I get hacked off with the service side I dont care how good the initial product is or isnt I WILL GO ELSEWERE. If I blow up my trany because I am running 10's in the 1/4 I'm not going to try to weasle something from GM, but if they tell me that my truck threw a rod because I was running total power fuel additive and try to weasle outa it I'm not going to replace it with a GM product and I think many will agree with me.


I used to be gung-ho co. man untill I relized big buissnes dont give a crap unless it effects thier bottom line regardless what propoganda they spew. They do just enough to get by. Even if someone at the top or somewere in the middle or the bottom dosnt think that way and think building the best possible product and taking care of thier workers is the best nitche and will ultimatly result in great income there are enough in the mix that just care about the imediate bottom line and spending a dollar to save a dime that thats the way it ultimatly comes out.


Really sucks that I might be stuck only going to a Chevy dealer becuase IMO the only local dealer in my area is incompetent so if I cant drive my truck to Peoria I will be SOL http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif


100% stock, I just like to live out my alter ego on the net and impress all you guys, I'm sure you guys are all doing the same thing too right? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif


What is this juice box you all speak of? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif Does it come in cherry floavor? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

hoot..its a pressure test on engine, we look for oil leaks, and air leaks to make sure everything is sealed, im not sure what its under but i know that they wouldnt let anything leave the plant with more than a 0.020 im not sure if its nm or what it is..i can find out though

kool,

I remembered seeing the hot cells running the engines in test but i don't recall seeing any pressure testing going on when I was there in 01.

What an interesting thread this has been to read! Sorry, but I just wanted to jump in and make my comments now. I looked through all of Hoot's pictures, interested in what the internal workings are of the DMax. I enjoy reading dmaxallyTech's words and advice cause I know the guy is a professional in the business and we can all learn something from him, regardless of our own technical/mechanical abilities (of which mine aren't very great).


Hoot, sorry you had a problem, and sorry anyone else has to have had a problem. I'm personally hoping that life with my DMax will be problem free. Sometimes I wonder because we follow these forums, if the problems don't get blown out of scale. Mechanical and electrical components can and do fail. Yes there are engineering and realibility problems too. But Hoot, when I first read started reading the thread yesterday, I couldn't help but wonder in my own mind, based entirely on your signature alone, what effect the propane may have had long term on your engine. I was thinking about this, before anyone actually brought it up and posted it in this thread. Mind you my truck is bare bones stock. I love power and performance, but actually I find it to be quite acceptable in the stock format. It does what I intended it to do, commute and haul a travel trailer. I personally see no need for modifications to my vehicle. But that's the great thing about our country, being individuals and modifying anything, including turcks, to meet our needs. Long before I started reading this forum or any other forums, I thought about modifications and the consequences, if any, in relationship to warranty work. Matter of fact, the owner of the dealership (my dad worked for him for 15 years before retiring) was on the showroom floor the night I took delivery of my truck. He personally told me the first thing I needed to do to the diesel was "put a box in it to make it perform like a gas engine". My opinion was take it and see if it met my needs first, which it does. When you guys are questioning warranty validity for even adding a second fuel filter, I can't help but wonder about the consequence of adding a box or propane.


As for dmaxallyTech and 1fatcat, you guys both sound like people I wish worked in my dealerships service department, as you both sound like guys who have in depth knowledge and experience. I talk with the fellows in our garage, quite often weekly, because I hang out there for an hour or so once a week while my daughter is at scouts. Yes, my trucks do need service from time to time too, both routine and warranty, but that's not the only reason I hang out at the garage. I think the two leading techs in our garage are pretty good guys, but I'm personally not sure how many DMax problems either of these two guys have actually seen.


There is no doubt conflict on all sides. GM wants to run damage control on any product problems and minimize costs in relationship to warranty claims. God knows, along with the Tech, that the tech gets screwed more often than not on warranty work. dmaxallyTech, you yourself have said it and I've had personal conversations with the guys in our garage over it too. Unfortunately, the consumer is sometimes the ultimate loser. We purchased products that we hoped would be designed well and be problem free, and not present large repair and maintenance expenses. We have a 36 mo/36K mile warranty, plus additional warranty with deductable for items like the DMax or emission related equipment. But even with those warranties, we have the inconvenience of repairs, being without the vehicle, alternate transportation, etc.


In the perfect world, everything would be engineered and tested completely to avoid failure and then if failure ever happened, the parts would be available and the tech would be fairly compensated to minimize the inconvenience

kool,

I remembered seeing the hot cells running the engines in test but i don't recall seeing any pressure testing going on when I was there in 01.





it happens online right before they are transfered to the hot stands, at the end of the line, is the water leak test, and at the other end of the line they do the oil leak test

ok let me add to the firehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif I work for DMax itself, and i dont care what anyone says about my company and actually, DMax engineers do run engines everyso often in hot test on Propane, thats our job, to push our engines to the max, yes the LB7 head gaskets sux, trust me ive seen many upon many fail, but we have a tolerance of .020 if i remember corectly, with the LLY we dont have HG leaks like we used to...any engine has there problems, it just so happens, that with a new engine, and a new company, the bugs are still getting worked out. I work for GM too, but i dont care what u say, i still work, and i still stand by my company..ok im done:)


Yeah, the head gaskets on the LB7 suck real bad, trucks are detonating all across the country. SHEEE-URRRE http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif


Since you know that the LLY is not having any problems with the gaskets on the heads (With so many on the road and all) what is different about the LLY gaskets from the LB7's?


If you are going to post as the super know-it-all tech at the DMAX plant try to make the post credible and informative as possible rather than something to piss off the LB7 owners. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gifEdited by: BMDMAX

Oh No another Eric... (LARSONEM)

Good post. I too wonder about the long term effects of any "power adder". I have no complaints about my truck blowing a head gasket... I also know for a fact that I could have had it fixed under warranty locally. Had my truck in my local dealership a year or so ago for defueling. I had all the power stuff hooked up when I took it in. They simply ignored it. When I went to say something they said "The less we know, the better".
I simply chose to go to MI because I had confidence that it would get done without the diagnosis delay and waiting for a stepped fix... Eric eliminated all possibilities in one sweep.
I also know it's possible that without propane my head gasket might have made it out of warranty then would have had to pay out of pocket. Kinda cheesy way of looking at it but power adders do tend to bring out any weak issues with our trucks. In my case I think it was a good thing. I do have to re-iterate... I am not a thrasher of this truck. I used the extra power conservatively.. for that laid back in the seat feel. Eric Larson... don't try a Juice.... it will do you in.

Edited by: hoot

kool,

I remembered seeing the hot cells running the engines in test but i don't recall seeing any pressure testing going on when I was there in 01.





it happens online right before they are transfered to the hot stands, at the end of the line, is the water leak test, and at the other end of the line they do the oil leak test

That is simply an assembly check.

The problem with that kind of testing is it does not emulate what happens after 100,000 miles of hot cold running. We are performing that test.

Edited by: hoot

I'd bet a massive tree falling on a hood would have more to do with a head gasket leaking than the addition of a PS2000 system. That's it, maybe there's a rash of trees falling on Dmax's. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I'd bet a massive tree falling on a hood would have more to do with a head gasket leaking than the addition of a PS2000 system. That's it, maybe there's a rash of trees falling on Dmax's.

I did give the body shop a hard time for driving the truck from the lot accross the street without a radiator on it and no turbo hoses hooked up.... ya just never know. Realistically they only ran it for very short times.

[QUOTE=kool]
That is simply an assembly check.

The problem with that kind of testing is it does not emulate what happens after 100,000 miles of hot cold running. We are performing that test.







but its also hard for a company to know to predict that, i know what u mean, oh and for any of you wondering there up to like 381,600ish engines produced to date

What is an injector body leak? A while back I had a diesel smell in my engine compartment. I found a small pool of fuel at the passengers side rear injector. Not enough fuel to flow out, but it pooled where the fuel line entered the center of the nut. The tech said it was not torqued properly and he tightened it. No leaking since. Am I at risk for any future problems?


kool, Since you work with the DMax, I have a question for you....My '03 truck was delivered with 15 quarts of oil in the crankcase (5 qts. overfilled), I discovered it at the first oil change at 2700 miles. No explanation from the dealer or GM, but the dealer has promised to waive the $100 deductible if problems arise after the 3/36. Will running 5 qts. overfilled for 2700 miles cause damage? Anyone else know?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Stern Smile.gifSPICER

spicer i dont know ur answer, but that happened at the truck plant, we clean and drain our engines before whe ship them to the truck plant, but i dont know what long term effects that could have, its hard to tell

kool, so you are saying that the overfill was likely done at the plant? Not a dealer screw-up? The dipstick was about 1 1/4 inches overfilled. I assumed it was just oil from the dipstick tube and didn't worry about it. I don't know if 1 1/4 inches puts me into the spinning crank shaft or not. So far oil analysis is inconclusive as to whether the engine suffered any damage.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gifAny thoughts? SPICER

yeah we dont have anything in the engines when we ship them out, the truck plant fills them to test run them once they place them in the truck, then they head to the dealership

I like sausage, mushrooms, onions and roni on my Pizza!

I like sausage, mushrooms, onions and roni on my Pizza!


Hungry ??





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Smile.gif

Yup.......


Just trying to lighten it up a little MAC. I just hope CHevhdman isn't still mad at me for givin him a hard time.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Stand up for the Cold Start Knock consumers....






Hey that is me. I would love to see a response to this, and before you get your panties in a wad, I was stock when it started. Same when the original tranny grenaded. Now I am not stock, but no where near highly modded. How about GM telling me to get bent with my oil analysis results showing crazy wear numbers and fuel in the oil. How about a moter that is louder than a dmax, REALLY!!!!!!!





later

Stand up for the Cold Start Knock consumers....






Hey that is me. I would love to see a response to this, and before you get your panties in a wad, I was stock when it started. Same when the original tranny grenaded. Now I am not stock, but no where near highly modded. How about GM telling me to get bent with my oil analysis results showing crazy wear numbers and fuel in the oil. How about a moter that is louder than a dmax, REALLY!!!!!!!





later

Lets here it fatcat.

Kool wrote:


ok let me add to the firehttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil%20Smile.gif I work for DMax itself, and i dont care what anyone says about my company and actually, DMax engineers do run engines everyso often in hot test on Propane, thats our job, to push our engines to the max, yes the LB7 head gaskets sux, trust me ive seen many upon many fail, but we have a tolerance of .020 if i remember corectly, with the LLY we dont have HG leaks like we used to...any engine has there problems, it just so happens, that with a new engine, and a new company, the bugs are still getting worked out. I work for GM too, but i dont care what u say, i still work, and i still stand by my company..ok im done:)


Kool, when can I bring my truck down to your shop and have the LLY installed? I have worked for a few All American Corporations and they all had one fatal flaw. They did not beta test enough. They expect the consumer to do there R and D for them. That is nothing but greed. I do not remember signing up for a 40k R&amp;D program. Just when I was starting to heed the advise of others on this sight, relax,don't worry, we are hurting our resale value. I am afraid that if I have a expensive repair outside of warranty that was a known problem before my truck was even built I might loose it. You will probally all read about some crazy Coloradoan driving his truck through the glass and back onto the showroom floor. I will leave that piece of sh*t right where I found it. And you wonder my America is loosing it's footing in the new global economy!Edited by: Bronco

And you wonder my America is loosing it's footing in the new global economy!


Is it really only the footing? And here I thought we were losing our Arses!?# http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif in the so-called global economy. That word "globalization" makes me want to puke.

Bronco-


Kinda reminds me of the old Discount Tire commercials were the old lady throws the tire through the window....hehehehe
Sorry to make light of the situation, just got me to chuckle is all.. I go back and forth with this thread, lots of good info and lots of good opinions.


Carry on....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


Bob

This thread has been a roller coaster ride. To be perfectly honest my truck has 21k and has been almost perfect to this point. Some minor glitches but well worth it. Im thinking about starting a new topic titled PERFECT! Those commercials were a hoot. Edited by: Bronco

I would say I have been very lucky as well. This truck has been flawless, the only trip to the dealer was for a free oil change that I shamed them into because they started it a month or two after I bought my truck. Just passed 16,100 miles today and lovin' every minute behind the wheel!!


Bob

Stand up for the Cold Start Knock consumers....








Hey that is me. I would love to see a response to this, and before you get your panties in a wad, I was stock when it started. Same when the original tranny grenaded. Now I am not stock, but no where near highly modded. How about GM telling me to get bent with my oil analysis results showing crazy wear numbers and fuel in the oil. How about a moter that is louder than a dmax, REALLY!!!!!!!







later




Lets here it fatcat.








I have personally had very good results with a thourow engine de-carbonizing process that I use.


You remove all 8 spark plugs and turn the engine to a spot where all 8 pistons are at the lowest combined achievable level. Then fill the cylinders to the top of the plug holes with a de-carbon chemical, we use a product made by BG, I think it is called K44? GM makes a similar product...X66?


I can't remember the the names exactly, maybe DmaxalliTech could verify?


Let the truck sit with the chemical in the cylinders for 24 hours. Then spin the engine over to push any remaining chemical out the plug holes, most of it will have seeped past the rings and will be in the crankcase. That is what we are aiming for.


Install the spark plugs and run the truck to normal opperating temps. Change the engine oil and finish the job off with a fuel injection cleaning procedure.


What you accomplish with this procedure is a deep cleaning of the piston tops and the piston ring grooves. The injector cleaning at the end is just for good measure.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^GAS ENGINES ONLY!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


A lot of people are implying that I would personaly try to void your warranty for using additives in your diesle because of a post I once made warning everyone of a situation our dealership had encountered. If you go back and read that post, you will see that our dealership was FIGHTING TO GET THAT CUSTOMERS WARRANTY BACK IN EFFECT! Not fighting to void it.


And what's with the sarchasm of bigger tires voiding a warranty? Look, I'm not an azz hole that would try to void a warranty because someone has a K&amp;N filter, or a secondary fuel filter, or even a computer device such as Juice or others. But propane injection....yeah, that is just too much. Sorry, but thats the way I feel!


If you had a gasser with a NOS system on it, even if it was just a little 50 horse shot, would you expect factory warranty to be valid if you threw a rod or blew a headgasket?


Answer honestly!

Yep, that decarbon procedure does work good ... for about 6-8K miles. Had it done twice on my 02 6.0 before I peddled it with less then 15K. IMO it's a temporary GM band-aid. Nothing against the tech's doing the procedure ...their just doing what GM told them to do via the TSB issued after they finally got enough complaints about the CSK problem.

1fatcat-


BG-44K is an awesome fuel system cleaner for gassers!! I have seen a few demonstrations with BG products and it is rather impressive.


Bob

Gooz frapa Gooz frapa Gooz frapa. Ever seen the movie Anger managment?Edited by: Bronco

Who's that pretty girl in the mirror there?, Is it because I refused to spoon with you last night?..........LOL, AWSOME movie!!!

Yep, that decarbon procedure does work good ... for about 6-8K miles. Had it done twice on my 02 6.0 before I peddled it with less then 15K. IMO it's a temporary GM band-aid. Nothing against the tech's doing the procedure ...their just doing what GM told them to do via the TSB issued after they finally got enough complaints about the CSK problem.


I know you are not going to find this acceptable, and I can't blame you. But maybe try running a can of fuel system cleaner at every oil change? I can't say that it will work for sure, but I would be willing to do it if it was my truck...at least for a few oil changes just to see if it would prevent the carbon from building up.

I know this is off topic but since you kinda changed the topic to decarboning stuff.. Would that help my dad's truck run better? He has a 2000 5.3 and it runs great when revved but at idle it will sometimes almost stall and die. It starts hard too. I have changed the fuel filter lately when changing the oil, it seemed clean. Pulled the codes once, said egr according to the tech that checked it for me, so I got another egr and put it on, it ran good for a couple days and then got bad again and threw another SES, same code.. Like I said, it runs great when over 1000 rpm, but at idle nearly dies. Sometimes though it runs fine at idle. Driving us nuts.. Thanks..

Check the fuel pressure regulator for leaking fuel into the vacuum supply line. It should not be leaking any at all. You may need to idle the engine with the vacuum line off for up to a half hour to properly verify if it is good or not.


When they get real bad, they will leak out very fast.

Hey what's this unleaded talk .... http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Throw%20Up.gif


Lets get back to GM screwing the little guy and those who want to protect them "fatherless child" for a better name ....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Hey what's this unleaded talk .... http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Throw%20Up.gif


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif








ROTFLMAO

I was appalled that fatcat accused Eric of affecting his paycheck. GM has done that themselves. I have historically been a loyal gm owner, but repairs have been costly. I have a 1994 suburban and a 1999 Montana that have both had their share of issues. Lets not forget about the intake manifolds, ABS systems,rear brakes, etc. that all should have been recall items in my opinion. Face it, GM has not delt with the issues and its going to kill them in the long run.

And don't forget the leaky AC Delco batteries that never get redesigned and just keep on leaking acid down the insides of our trucks and cars.

It's one thing when it happens for a year or so but this has been going on for many many years.

Lets not forget about the intake manifolds, ABS systems,rear brakes, etc. that all should have been recall items in my opinion. Face it, GM has not delt with the issues and its going to kill them in the long run.


Back when I was working for GM, there was an infamous GM ABS brake problem. To reduce cost GM ported a TI DSP core into an ASIC, only to find out later (after production) the ASIC wasn't fully compatible. The idea was sound, they just didn't fully test it. Deja vu?

_nar_,


Have your Dad have the solenoids in the transmission checked out to see if they are sticking if he has the 4L60E, I've heard of a few guys with Impalas with the exact same symptoms you describe that were fixed by replacing a solenoid in the tranny. . . Good luck!


Dennis

Hey Hoot, Hard to tell what the origins are of corrosion but damn that looks like galvanic. I see a lot of galvanic corrosion on boats, it seems to be deep, defined and localized if that explains it. You could actually measure it in millivolts, catching the stray current taken off of the injectors themselves. I know you can do this on metal parts of a boat immersed in an electrolyte (salt water) I don't see why it wouldn't work on your truck. The key here is what the base metals are that are in contact with each other. If they are dissimilar on the periodic list of elements, that could be the key to all this. Then again it could be horse balony, who knows. At least you were lucky (smart enough) to get Eric to straighten out your buggy.

Hey Hoot, Hard to tell what the origins are of corrosion but damn that looks like galvanic. I see a lot of galvanic corrosion on boats, it seems to be deep, defined and localized if that explains it. You could actually measure it in millivolts, catching the stray current taken off of the injectors themselves. I know you can do this on metal parts of a boat immersed in an electrolyte (salt water) I don't see why it wouldn't work on your truck. The key here is what the base metals are that are in contact with each other. If they are dissimilar on the periodic list of elements, that could be the key to all this. Then again it could be horse balony, who knows. At least you were lucky (smart enough) to get Eric to straighten out your buggy.

I agree.... it does look galvonic. Partly because of the flakes.

Is there an anti-seeze type compound that would prevent the galling but still allow the fitting to seal?

Interesting thread.


I noticed a number of people cautioned 1fatcat that his overly "company man" attitude wasn't going to be reciprocated by his employer, since they are currently looking for a way to send his job offshore to someone who will do it for $1 a day.


Here's what I'm surprised that no one said in 5 pages. GM doesn't pay his salary. The public does. No customers = no sales = no service = no job = no salary. Simple as that. So while you're busy maintaining suction on the boss' sphincter, don't forget who really pays the freight, all of us suckers who paid top dollar for a truck that we expect to perform flawlessly.


I had an injector fail and it burned a hole completely through a piston. Probably not a common occurrence, but I'm used to it. Some corp. ass clown showed up and tried to deny my warr. because the truck was being used to tow and it had 33" tires on it. Fortunately, the SM and tech were sharp and fought for me.


They explained to Nimrod that, yes, indeed, the customer does in fact tow with this vehicle. This is indeed WHY he bought this vehicle. Otherwise, he'd be driving something much smaller. They explained that given the difference in tire dia. and the trailer weight vice max towing cap., I was still far under the rated cap. from the mfr. and he didn't have a leg to stand on.


The crowning touch was when they took him over to the engine and showed him the block with the head removed. 3 pristine pistons (cylinder walls looked brand new) and one destroyed piston. There is no box, or propane, or anything a customer can do that will destroy 1 piston and leave the other 7 unaffected.


If it weren't for techs like those and ESPECIALLY Eric, more people would have thrown up their hands in disgust and said, "GM will NEVER get another dime from me. I can't afford to throw $40,000 down the tubes on a failed experiment only to have them stick me for a huge repair bill for essentially poor design work."


The system should have been designed with a lift pump and dual stage filtration (10 or 15 um 1st stage and 2 um 2nd stage). The RPCV design is marginal. The injectors should have been tougher the 1st yr. We're seeing waaay too much of this galvanic looking corrosion that Hoot photographed so well. Inside of a fuel rail, inside of an oil bath??? C'mon!!!





Wanna yell at sombody? Yell at the clowns (beancounters or weak engineers or dufus mgrs) who made the decision that these shortcuts/compromises/oversights/poor engineering or just plain lack of testing was "good enough." That's who's costing you, me, all of us money. Rework costs everyone.


Not to mention it jeopardizes your job. With the internet now, people don't listen to commercials - they listen to each other and they find out what's going on, better than Consumer Reports could ever tell it. Enough of these occurrences and everyone will be driving a Cummins.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gifEdited by: socaldmax

Excellent point steve. I agree with you completely.

Somebody needs to send a copy of that letter to GM.


The techs might be able to answer this. With a 5 speed, computer controlled transmission, is a bigger tire really all that big of a deal. Won't the tranny just stay in a lower gear if needed? With 5 gears to choose from, I just can't see it putting that much extra strain on the motor. Besides if there was that much extra strain don't you think that marginal Allison would slip first and relive some of the load?


As far as towing goes, there are not enough grocerys in the store to void my warranty. Why do you think I bought the truck?Edited by: Bronco

nobody hate me:) i just work for the company lol

Kool,


Just get us documentation on known failures and failure rates. We won't hate you.

Steve,


Well said!

Here's what I'm surprised that no one said in 5 pages. GM doesn't pay his salary. The public does. No customers = no sales = no service = no job = no salary.


Now lets play that in forward motion!........Warrantied repairs that should never have hapened = GM to force an increase on the price of their vehicles = less consumers = less vehicles for me to fix under warranty or under customer pay = less money at the end of the week = a smaller pay check for me!!!


Your looking at this in a "short term" aspect. You need to look at it in a "long term" aspect! Long term is where the numbers are calculated from!

Now lets play that in forward motion!........Warrantied repairs that should never have hapened = GM to force an increase on the price of their vehicles = less consumers = less vehicles for me to fix under warranty or under customer pay = less money at the end of the week = a smaller pay check for me!!!

But GM is saving a bundle on warranty repairs that SHOULD have happened. GM and all the automakers calculate cost-benefit all the time. Guess who ends up on the short end?

Perfect example.... turbo went on guys truck (true story). Engine ran away..... fed by motor oil. It shut down when it ran out of oil. GM still has not decided if they are going to give him a new motor..... it's being disassembled as we speak to see why it's making noise now after the new turbo was installed.

What if that was your truck 1fatcat? You're a GM tech? You would get anything you want, am I right?Edited by: hoot

SOCALDMAX, HOOT, Excellent posts!! GM should be falling all over themselves in apologies to these guys. Not trying to come up with excuses!! In their advertising of these trucks, they make alot of claims that they are almost indestructable. It better not be all show and no GO!!! The vast majority of us BABY our trucks and maintain them to perfection, but the problems still arise and we need the support of GM and not excuses.

Here's what I'm surprised that no one said in 5 pages. GM doesn't pay his salary. The public does. No customers = no sales = no service = no job = no salary.


Now lets play that in forward motion!........Warrantied repairs that should never have hapened = GM to force an increase on the price of their vehicles = less consumers = less vehicles for me to fix under warranty or under customer pay = less money at the end of the week = a smaller pay check for me!!!


Your looking at this in a "short term" aspect. You need to look at it in a "long term" aspect! Long term is where the numbers are calculated from!





Long Term, GM is gonna have the Duramax get the REPUTATION of the 6.5 Liter Diesel, no one will want it because it was built with and repaired with parts that do not meet the expectations of it's customers.


FORD has contacted CUMMINGS to build it's next generation of Diesels, all it took was a boat anchor like the 6.0 psd to make FORD wake up. Does GM have blinders on or what???


Or you could look at some one like captainmal, who has had some his repair bills total and exceed to the cost of the original engine. Having some injectors fail under warranty and some not, not to mention the fact he lost time, lost money because his tow rig was down............you get the point???


GM better start listening to it's BREAD and BUTTER customers........


You want to make more money??? Warrant Work is not something anyone likes.......maintenance work like brake jobs and LOF's is bread and butter money for tech's and dealers.


Hope you convince your employer GM to do what's right.....because when people are happy they spend money on there trucks, when the truck is a POS they get mad when they are inconvenienced, taken advantage of or told some stupidity about an additive or tires they speak out.the Net and forums do more to influence buyers more than GM's commercials ever will.


Someone must be listening to their customers..........


The new NISSAN TITAN has BFG 285's from the factory.....GM has 245's....Nissan obviously want to get sales, new V8 a extended cab, etc.


........GM seems to be looking for a way to get repeat customers and get them to the showrooms with an ON-STAR contest.So instead investing in R&amp;D and fixing customers trucks and cars right and redisigning new parts to correct the design flaws they would rather give away 1000 cars and trucks.


If those turn out to be POS with warranty BS then they gained nothing as well. Except now more people will have a lesser opinion of GM.


I have not had any trouble with my 2002 to speak of, a steering bearing and a defective interior door lock trim piece........but I am on guard for a potential problem.


I would hope you get the BIG PICTURE here, this is my long term outlook and will not change........ I have personally not owned or will look at a FORD since 1994 when the dealer could not fix my SHO properly........I have never been back to FORD since...they lost a customer.


Sorry to all for the long post.........alot needs to be said on this issue, customer feedback is important. If I but a new truck barring any problems with this current one my concerns will still be the inadequete factory fuel filtration and lack seemingly lack of training for the tech's regarding the Duramax.


So if anyone at GM is listening, wake up and smell the coffee.





Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gifNYEdited by: GMC-2002-Dmax

1fatcat,


You have seen the movie Anger Management. So you understand why I say Gooz Frappa, Gooz Frappa, Gooz Frappa every time you open your mouth. The only thing that makes your paycheck small is the fact that GM exutives are eating caviar for breakfast while they are getting a pedicure in there 12000 square foot vacation home. I have rolled with the real fatcats(invitation only of course) before. It will change your perspective for ever.Edited by: Bronco

When my Duramax croaks out-of-warranty, instead of spending $5000+ on injectors etc, I think I'll go buy a Cummins I-6 motor and try to figure out how to wedge it into my truck... It seems Cummins is the only motor that might last. Ford had a great motor with their IH 7.3 but then pi$$ed it away with the 6.0.


With all the discussion about jobs and company loyality, if anyone here believes their jobs are safe because they are loyal to the company they work for, you have your head stuck in the sand, and deep. Global economy means one thing for the U.S.: Our good jobs are leaving in droves (to China), and it's not just the manufacturing jobs, but the R&amp;D engineering jobs as well. Funny thing is the managers (and execs) all think their jobs are safe. Can't wait to see their jobs move (to China) as well...


Tim

Tony---Well said and I agree with you 100%.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

How many of us still have AC units that haven't been fixed? When GM showed me a TSB/chart that said on a 100 degree day they would only output something like 85 degree air because it is A) Diesel....B) the trans cooler/inter-cooler are in front of the radiator.....C) insert your lame excuse here. My response was...A) My brother and my neighbor have a F..d and D..g. diesel and they can make ice cubes in their cabs on a 100 degree day. B) I think you should televise this chart in the next GM truck commercial and see if it affects sales. C) Post it in the sales area at this dealership and see if it affects sales. D) Give me the number of any one that was connected with the design and drafting of this system/TSB as they should be terminated for trying to take advantage of the consumer.


Injectors and head gaskets could be following the same path. They are just not as obvious to most consumers. So in the end GM takes advantage of the masses.


Suffering Suckatash...Fatcat, for every "questionable" non-warranty repair that gets done under warranty there are exponentially more warranty repairs that don't get done and are paid for out of the consumers pocket. If you really want to try and acheive Niravna and feel this strongly about your ideals then make your voice heard in Detroit. You I'm sure you see TSB's all the time that don't address the real problem and just put a band aid on stuff that isn't right to begin with.


Do you fight with GM for the consmer and tell the General that this is wrong and should be fixed correctly or do you follw the TSB and pocket the money for the job and move on to the next. How about if you finish a job early do you only charge for the time spent or do you pocket the cash for the estimated time GM told you it would take? These are rhetorical questions but I think I know the answers.


In the end it's a numbers game and I'm sure you spend more time on an average than they allow, beacause you sound like someone that is really trying to do things right, so it's supposed to average out. But actually GM is sucking time away from your life that you can never get back. Just think, every time you or Eric is late getting home because you stayed and finished the job so the customer could have his vehicle back, you missed out on a moment with your wife, or something funny or cute your kids did and you weren't there. You didn't get paid for that time at work and yet you can never get that moment back with your loved ones, no matter how much you did get paid.


Your ideals are commendable, but keep you eyes wide open, because in the end it's a numbers game. Like it or not......your just a number! In GM's eyes we are all just numbers.


Eric feels just as strongly about his ideals as you do, the difference is he is willing to take the risk of his job to try and get things changed and done right. Thank you, Eric! If GM had more techs like you and less of the ones like Fatcat, they would be infinitely more profitable.


I'm going to stop now before I start in on unions and their suppression of the stand outs like "Eric" in order to pay the average and below average worker the same rates.

Maybe GM is listening just a little bit. They re-designed the Duramax engine (was LB7 now is LLY). While some of the mods were related to new emission requirements, not all the changes can be attributed to that. Looks like they have spent some money to try and refine the product a little bit.

I want a free swap.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

I think fatcat missed the point of my rant.


Who decides how long a warranty lasts? The mfr.


Based on what? How long most of the parts will last before failure. If their design and quality were good enough, they could offer a 10 yr 100,000mi bumper to bumper warr. and not lose a cent.


Warranty repairs aren't required because somebody just decided they didn't like their current set of head gaskets and wanted a new set. THE HEADGASKET FAILED or THE INJECTOR FAILED!!! The next question is "WHY did it fail before the predicted lifetime" and that's where the problem lies. In substandard components, poor engineering, lack of testing.


This is what inconvenineces people, costs them time and money and makes them contemplate whether they'll get better performance, more reliability or better service from another brand.





How much time do you spend thinking about the performance of your refrigerator or toaster? Been thinking of adding more coils to the toaster for more performance and greater reliability? When was the last time you logged onto a refrigerator forum to discuss warranty issues, upgrades and whether it was well designed or not.


I just put my food and beer into the fridge, pop my bread into my toaster. The beer stays cold, the toast comes out just right. No tweaking or upgrades required. Is that too much to ask? Can't I just get a truck for $40,000 that doesn't require research and re-engineering to even make it through the warranty period?


Perceptions are (sometimes unfortunately) quite often more powerful than truth. So every time Dmaxallitech correctly diagnoses a problem and saves another customer from 100 visits to service waiting room hell, he is in fact doing a great deal more for GM than just satisfying one customer. Hundreds or thousands of people read about it and get the warm fuzzy feeling that somebody WILL take care of it, all hope is not lost, there are good people out there who know that the boss isn't the one you need to please.


I'm just hoping there are more like him, preferably at least one in socal.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

QC DMAX wrote:Maybe GM is listening just a little bit. They re-designed the Duramax engine (was LB7 now is LLY). While some of the mods were related to new emission requirements, not all the changes can be attributed to that. Looks like they have spent some money to try and refine the product a little bit.


Maybe GM sales engineers are just getting very profecient at there jobs? Right when LB7 owners are getting there trucks payed off they come out with the next best thing. Sell your LB7 and go buy the next 40k solution. I am sure there will be a whole slew of new problems with that motor. If not the motor it will be back to problems with the tranny or something else. You guessed it the 06/07 year will cure all of those ailments. When will it end? Do we need to have a diesel place get together on the lawn at GM or the sidewalk out side of the dealer? Do we all need to put our trucks up for sale tommorow?( not to cheap of course. wouldn't want to give it away) We are being played like a cheap fiddle.
Edited by: Bronco

I think that the bottom line is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$.


Some fatcat ( no pun intended ) decided he could squeeze 10 cents out every truck and put it in his pocket.


Some snot nosed college grad with his sights on CEO someday determines that it's cheaper to not fix it a problem and in that process lose customers rather than to do what's right.


What the General misses is I have a family, I have children, I can and will influence a great deal of people in my lifetime. Does GM want my kid's to buy their products or are they really willing to write off a generation or two ????


It's no longer the "BIG 3" and a substandard foriegn import or compact truck. All of the Japanese manufacturers have V8 - Full Size trucks, extended cabs and real beds that can tow a good size boat or trailer.


The new Nissan Titan puts out 305 HP, so I read. Chevy's 6.0 is rated at 300 hp unless it's in an Escalade then ya get 340hp. Bottom line is the competition is real, it's a serious business. Toyota is a benchmark brand for many people, they own a car and say it runs forever, I know of some that have a ton of trouble free miles on trucks and cars.


So as we sit here and hope we have no problems some of us will. I am willing to deal with a problem as I know things are not perfect. But if I get some BS or a run around or an idiot Service Manageror or Zone Rep. at my dealer I will not be very happy.


Right now I have a trouble free truck but maybe tomorrow I won't.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


I can still see the LEMON truck in my mind from posts, kinda funny for GM they had or still have a guy riding around with Lemons on his white truck. How is that for advertising value ????? How many people asked him his story.


WHAT DO YOU THINK HIS STORY HAD FOR AN INFLUENCE.


I made it a point when I dumped my Taurus SHO to tell everyone how I felt. I have never considered a FORD for 10 years and won't either. My kid's think that way as well, so FORD has lost 3 more potential customers for sure.


Now I read Ford is suffering , they are getting beat up on the 6.0 psd and GM is taking slowly taking market share, why ??, is it customer service or the product or lack of a fix for poor engineering??? Probably all of the above.


So my advice is hope for the best, don't take any sh*t from the dealer and travel for service if necessary. Some day GM and the others will really get the BIG PICTURE.


For now the only thing they see is the Short Term........





Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gifNY

... Now I read Ford is suffering , they are getting beat up on the 6.0 psd and GM is taking slowly taking market share, why ??, is it customer service or the product or lack of a fix for poor engineering??? Probably all of the above.


...





Tony,


I agree with you whole heartedly.


You said that that Ford is having some issues with the 6.0, and people are jumping ship to Chevy (and Dodge). I agree that's probably true. BUT, lest we not forget about all of the people that bought one of the original Chevy 350 powered diesels. Those were a TOTAL flop and GM sold a TON of those, and then left people out to dry. IF, those same people buy a Dmax and the same thing happens again, they're NEVER coming back to GM, even if they live to be a 150!!!


I think that the all the manufacturers have the same problems when it comes to quality, and it changes from time to time who's on top.


I think that one thing that is STILL untested with the foreign pickups is their pulling ability. With the new Titan, it will be interesting to see how that truck holds upto pulling a 7000lb fifth wheel across the country. Things change when you start using a truck AS A TRUCK.


It will definitely be interesting...


CADman_ks

The SUV and truck market are really what is keeping GM afloat. If they screw that up too, they are in trouble. Good point on the Nissan and Toyota trucks. It won't be long and they will have a truck line that rivals the hp, torque, and towing capacities of the big three.

Hey Kittycat,


My steering shaft clunk is back. It has not been more than 1 month and 1000 miles since I took it in the first time and had the T.S.B performed. Do you have any ideas on witch parts should be replaced this time or should we just use a thicker grease?

Hey Kittycat,


My steering shaft clunk is back. It has not been more than 1 month and 1000 miles since I took it in the first time and had the T.S.B performed. Do you have any ideas on witch parts should be replaced this time or should we just use a thicker grease?





My 1999 EC LB 4x4 had the steering clunk. All they ever did was lube it. I got tired of trying after 3 times. (This board convinced me if I didn't own a D-max that I was missing out) I sold the truck and bought the 2003. $40,000 later and about 500 miles I have the same clunk. The new and improved solution.......lube it. I'm still loyal to the General, just dissappointed.

I'am hoping the rumor of a new part to solve the steering rattle is true. Mine has been lubed three times also! If the rumors true, it should be out in the next month or two.

I'am hoping the rumor of a new part to solve the steering rattle is true. Mine has been lubed three times also! If the rumors true, it should be out in the next month or two.

Sorry boys,

If you aren't running stock rubber.... 1fatcat will void your warranty for the steering fix that don't fix the steering rattle http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Last Monday, after coming home from work my 03 GMC 2500 HD Duramax would not start, I picked it up Saturday from the dealer on Saturday. They replaced all 8 injectors sighting that 5 were bad, the truck only has fifteen thousand miles.








03 GMC 2500HD LS Ext Cab short bed,

Man that sucks. Im hoping that the Nicktane filter will solve all problems with the injectors.

I'm hoping the rumor of a new part to solve the steering rattle is true. Mine has been lubed three times also! If the rumors true, it should be out in the next month or two.

Sorry boys,

If you aren't running stock rubber.... 1fatcat will void your warranty for the steering fix that don't fix the steering rattle http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif I wonder if 1fatcat belongs to a club that has members that think the way he does, if so he should do us a favor and post there names and where they work so we can avoid the dealerships where they work, me I would rather patronize a dealer who has mechanics that work with and for the customer, not someone who's a sneaking rear end kisser like 1fatcat.

file:///C:/My%20documents/My%20Pictures/ass%20kiss.gif

Good one Hoot!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh woo is me! Let’s see, where to start?

Fist of all, DmaxalliTech, I’m VERY, VERY sorry for questioning your honesty as a GM tech! You are obviously a very talented Dmax technician and I should never have questioned your honesty!....Even if you didn’t see the plug that Hoot had to have put in his intake tube after he removed his propane kit. I’m sure that you really did not see any evidence of a propane injection set up on Hoots truck.

Secondly, Hoot, I have no apologies for you. You knew you voided your own warranty when you added that propane kit. If you truly believe that GM should have covered your failed head gasket after injecting the equivalent of nitrous oxide into a gas engine, well then that is your decision…not mine obviously.

Thirdly, I wouldn’t even think twice about voiding a warranty unless it is truly DESERVED! Fact is, I have never even suggested voiding a warranty on any vehicle I have ever worked on! Reason being is that I don’t work on GM vehicles that have been raped by the owner when they are still covered under factory warranty.

You see, most people who spend $40,000+ for a truck realize that a factory warranty has very specific guidelines that need to be fallowed to keep the warranty valid. One of which would include NOT ADDING PROPANE INJECTION TO A DMAX!

Finally, I would like to say that my PERSONAL decision to be a dedicated GM technician SHOULD only make you guys appreciate me more! Because all of you are always saying yourselves that it is SOO hard to find an honest GM tech.

If I’m dishonest to my boss, GM, then why on Gods green earth would you have any reason to believe that I’m being honest with YOU, my customer!?!?!? I could tell you anything from a bad injector sleeve to a bad head gasket and you would have little choice but to believe what I tell you!

I’m sure that many of you know at least one person that is not very honest to other people (just on a personal level), well do you trust that person to tell you the truth?.......Not pointing fingers, just asking a question that will never get answered.

My personal decision to be honest with my employer is just that…It’s MY DECISION! Weather it is a mistake or not, I won’t know for a long time…

1fatcat,


I have to be careful what I say so it is not misinterpreted,


You made observations or accusations............we will let the jury decide.


Anyway, you are entitled to voice your opinion as will other members.


Obviously you feel strongly about this issue and I can understand your concerns to a point, but let's be honest with ourselves shall we ???


GM has not been the most forthcoming car maker when flaws are designed and not addressed in a equitable fashion as far as it's consumers are concerned. To the best of my knowledge any large corporation takes a calculated risk, they weigh the expense of doing what is right against the all mighty dollar.


Since we all paid alot of money for these trucks we expect a quality product and a company to stand behind it.


When GM tries to skirt the issues of product failure by blaming a size larger tire on a tranny failure or a meltdown of a piston on anything other than a stuck open injector than the consumer is getting screwed.


So for every truck that GM weasels out of fixing under warranty they win. So when you post about what you think is fair or not and question other members integrity be prepared for some constructive criticism.


I would hope you do not think I am berating you, I am offering you what I see.


Feel free to post and be true to yourself, everyone here may or may not disagree with you.





TONY

1fatcat,


You wrote:
Secondly, Hoot, I have no apologies for you. You knew you voided your own warranty when you added that propane kit. If you truly believe that GM should have covered your failed head gasket after injecting the equivalent of nitrous oxide into a gas engine, well then that is your decision…not mine obviously.
I am new to Diesels and this is truly a technical question. If propane is the equivalent to nitrous on a gasser. Then what is the equivialent of nitrous on a diesel?

The equivalent of nitrous on a diesel is VERY FAR FROM STOCK!!!!!!!


If you guys want Dodge quality, and you hate your Dmax, then SELL IT!!!!!!!!


Sell your Dmax and buy a Dodge! But before you do, take a look at these!!!!!!!!!


http://dtw.truckmoxie.com/forums/topic.ten?id=52963 (http://mct.truckmoxie.com/visit.asp?http://dtw.truckmoxie.com/forums/topic.ten?id=52963)

http://dtw.truckmoxie.com/FORUMS/TOPIC.TEN?POS=1&amp;ID=56542 (http://mct.truckmoxie.com/visit.asp?http://dtw.truckmoxie.com/FORUMS/TOPIC.TEN?POS=1&amp;ID=56542)

http://dtw.truckmoxie.com/forums/topic.ten?id=68710 (http://mct.truckmoxie.com/visit.asp?http://dtw.truckmoxie.com/forums/topic.ten?id=68710)

http://dtw.truckmoxie.com/forums/topic.ten?id=71459

Settle down. Your second to the last post was very well thought out. I actually started to think you had a brain. Are your meds. wearing off or kicking in?

Are your meds. wearing off or kicking in?


BOTH!!!!!!!!

1fatcat,


You deserve some slack. When the big Ford 5.0 mustang craze started people were blowing there engines like hotcakes. Technicians were trained from the factory to look for indicators of Nitrous but moreso superchargers. They looked for oil return lines in the pan and dents in the fender wells. The motors were blowing mainly beacause the computers/fuel systems did not give the extra fuel needed to go with the extra airflow. The aftermarket responded. There is now a whole slew of highly customized, fine tuned fuel system controls for the 5.0, making it the cheapest modified,baddest rwd coupe available. The factory now even sends these things off the show room floor with both cetrifugul and roots style superchargers. Maybe someday Chevy will send the Dmax out with propane. Propane and diesel fuel really do like eachother if engineered properly.

1fatcat,


It's a good thing you're not a detective or forensic tech. There might be a whole slew of people convicted because they own a gun or knife or baseball bat.


Just because evidence that propane may have been installed or used does not automatically mean that it caused the headgasket failure. It comes through the air intake, which means it is in all 8 cylinders equally. If a tech sees evidence of extreme cylinder pressures or failure in the majority or all of the cylinders, then yes, propane might be the issue. Looking at the actual pics of the failed section of headgasket, I can't determine the cause, but a good guess would be it was just defective.


If you ask all of the Ford and Dodge guys, head gasket failures are GUARANTEED whenever you mount aluminum heads on a diesel with a cast iron block. So who's right? That reminds me, there's a lot of people on TDR and TDS who need a little reminder that there are over 380,000 Dmaxes runnin around and all but a handful are still on their first set of headgaskets... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif


You are aware that GM built a racing Dmax for Pike's Peak? 600hp, stock internally. Lotsa power, lotsa rpm. I'm not gonna say the thing would last 1,000,000 mi, but I've studied (as has Hoot and lots of others) the details of what Duramax Ltd designed into this thing, and if there was ever a stout engine capable of making and living with high hp, this is it. I don't recall hearing of any bottom end failures, but all I know is from these forums.


BTW, did you hear about GM recalling 805,000 vehicles for possible steering problems on vehicles built in 96 and 97? How about the 660,000 (2500 and 3500 series) trucks that are being investigated for possible steering loss or braking loss... or the 580,000 vehicles being investigated for windshield wiper loss... the NHTSA is pushing all of this and it only takes 6 or 7 yrs for GM to admit there's a problem.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&amp;u=/ap/20040112/ap_on_re_us/gm_recall_9


Did all of these people modify their vehicles somehow to make these critical systems fail or did some accountant cut one corner too many? These aren't new bells and whistles, these are critical systems that have been on cars since day one. How can a large corp. suddenly forget how to make a reliable steering, braking or wiper system? By inadequate testing, cutting corners, poor design and lack of oversight.


One could think, "Wow, lotsa warranty work coming in the door from this!" That's short sighted.


What I would think, "Wow, lotsa people are now questioning our ability to design a safe vehicle to transport their most precious cargo. We are gonna lose a lot of repeat customers and word of mouth is gonna kill us. The rework is chewing up profits."


I've got an '84 toyota Corolla diesel. It runs like a Timex (what people expect from a diesel, 40 mpg and all!) and it has a BIG filler neck on a 10gal tank (???) and I get notes on the windshield once in a while asking me to sell it. Somehow they made a cheap car with a diesel that just won't die. I'm talking everything works! If Toyota ever decides to sell a powerful diesel truck, don't get caught in front of me!


R, SteveEdited by: socaldmax

BTW,





Did you guys hear that Toyota is coming out with a 1 ton crew cab dually, 6 speed auto and they're in negotiations with Cummins, CAT and John Deere....








OK, quit drooling, it was just a cruel joke! Sorry!

Toyota corrola wagon here. Oil, plugs filters and belts. 277K It wasn't even a diesel.

After reading all the threads all I can say is 1 thing.


CATFIGHT

Holly crap Bat Cat, err I mean fat cat....Or is it three blind mice ? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Let me leave you with this one itty bitty kitty treat. If it were not for Tech's like Eric I would NEVER have bough a second Duramax I would have bought a Dodge. How do you think that affects your fat pay check ? Butt hey, What would we expect from a corporation that decided not soo long ago that it was more cost effective to let people burn to death in their defective rides and pay the few suits Vs actually doing the right thing and recalling/repairing the problem. You remind me of that move "Fire Down Below" with Steven Segal. He says to the townspeople " you are letting theese rich folks, big buisiness corp treat you like a bunch of dumb hicks for a few bucks per hour " . Guess who the bass ackwards hick is here http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif

I personally do not feel propane caused the headgasket leak. I was not a radical user. There are guys beating these trucks to death out there with loads of extra power... and not blowing gaskets. So it's hard to say. The power levels I'm running are within the Allisons stock capability. Like I sad before... I have never drag raced this truck or did any sled pulling. No extreme competition loads. This is my commuter truck, work truck and recreation truck. I take it pretty easy on it compared to what I've read and seen around here.

Now all you techs out there..... are these engines going through more headgaskets than average? I know for a fact that the parts depts have been scurrying to keep them in stock.

I get the feeling that there are quality issues either with the gaskets themselves or with assembly. That could explain why some hold up forever while others go under 100,000 miles.Edited by: hoot

1. I can't believe i read the whole tread!


2. How many trucks with duramax power have had injector repaired under warranty?01/02/03/04


3. How many trucks with duramax power have had headgaskets replaced under warranty? 01/02/03/04


I just dont believe there would be more than a 1000 trucks or so.


So company men what is the scoop ?

Broker,


I am not sure how it read after the fact,but trust me it was amusing in the live version. You asked very goog questions,now we just need some honest answers.

Whew,


I don't hang out much in DMAX corner and can't believe I read all this but 7 pages intrigued me. CAT1 holding company line is easy to do, but many times company motive is just wrong, I just hope you really aren't as quick top deny a claim as it appears from what I read. Not questioning your ability just curious to know how long you have been at GM.


Reason I ask is to know if you have been around in Corporate world long enough to see the shift from best product to a product delivered at highest profit margin.


I work for GE about 22 years now #1 turbine mfr in the world, and I have seen a shift in those years from producing the very best engine to building an adequate one. We are still #1 not because we build it as best we can but because ours isn't as bad as theirs.


Warranty issues I handled before mentality shift were for the most part; installation error, preservation, or installation design issues of what the engine has been installed in. Not any more, I see multiple failures now resulting from lack of basic homework we used to do, that has been cost eliminated.


We have never had a failure on that, so lets stop inspecting it before shipping it; save some money. Or the material works here lets try it there, with no R&amp;D for the long term, only oops after the failures start coming in, or sorry it's out of warranty did not fail on my watch; we know what the problem is, here is the fix but you gotta pay for it because it's out of warranty.


Long gone are days when Engineers and techs that have moved up ladder have a say in what should be done, common sense and lessons learned from old timers isn't common. Beancounters and "Wharton" alumni that all learned the same text run the show, look at a fortune 500 profile and see how many CEOs chair multiple boards for different companies, all run the same crappy way, profit 1st product second.


Globalization, mantra of big business these days, India, Pakastan, Hungary, Mexico makes shareholders happy because they are cheap.


I've been on multiple conference calls with Engineering before (another cost saving tool) to discuss a problem with a ship engine installation, 1st language barrier over the phone, plus no 1 on 1 to see from body language if recipient gets what you are saying, and 3 guy I was talking to had never seen a ship, his office is in the mountains of Mexico.


The folks at the globalized sites aren't intentionally doing it wrong, but a lot is lost in translation, or no experience of what works and does not work, and few resources to review all that transpires. I'm about as company as they come I was accused of having GE stenciled on my butt once, just temper it with some common sense.


Propane/Nox voiding a warranty just because it's installed maybe if used in the exterme, but used responsibilty for smart power augment I doubt it. If someone abuses their truck there will be more signs as well, mere installation of a product should not void a warranty.


As far as warranty goes GM/GE/anybody knows early on when they goof, but they do a cost risk analysis how many complaints will we actually get to pay for vs cost to fix it. If it's a safety issue almost always those get fixed unless grey safety concerns, wipers quitting in the rain or trucks stalling because of component fail maybe maybe not. As both a consumer and a supplier of a product I get frustrated which is what I think Eric is saying that there seems to be little balance in Corporate today.


As far as company loyalty, let me assure you that unless you own the company it's a 1 way street, I have had a very lucrative carreer at GE thank you US Navy for the training to do so. But when the beancounters no longer can justify my need I'll be gone. Hopefully I can outlast them to retirement, or we continue to build "good enough" products that need fixing.


Sorry to all on the length of this I hadn't

The SUV and truck market are really what is keeping GM afloat. If they screw that up too, they are in trouble. Good point on the Nissan and Toyota trucks. It won't be long and they will have a truck line that rivals the hp, torque, and towing capacities of the big three.


The last that I heard, Toyota won't be offering a diesel full size until 2007 model year, which means 3 +/- yrs away. 2-3 decades ago, Toyota had the ability to produce gas engines that lasted as long as many of the diesels today. I wonder what how long thier diesels last. They currently produce lots of diesels, but mostly in automobile markets around the world, esp europe.

These companies are under tremendous pressure from Wall street too......Jap stock market works a little different in respect to returns on investments so I hear. None of the US manufacturers are doing well right now, I think there's little room for horsing around. I know in my business warranties are a killer if they get out of hand. I'm dealing with a warranty on a 5 year old boat that we warranty for one year. It' s our bad.......I'll cover the damn thing, and have to answer to myself when the numbers look alittle less rosie, maybe I'll be able to face my customer at the boat shows and hide from my wife and account! It sounds great that you take of your customer like crazy and you'll get customers for life but they forget real quickly and are off buying the next neat thing and your stuck with being a nice guy. I think I'm a sucker in the end and GM has it right.

Turbine Doc,


All I can say is excellent post!! Been there, done that.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


AlanEdited by: OC_DMAX