At the ppe web site they have a deveice that increases boost to 28-30 psi. I want to buy one for my LB-7 is 30 ibs of boost safe for the motor. Any info would help thanks
cody

It looks like it is just a bleed tube. It will likely just have a small hole in it so that the wastegate doesn't open so easily. You should probobaly at very least run a boost guage to make sure it won't go over 30psi. If you want to do it right you should run a banks big head instead.

Lots of people run 30psi on their stock turbo of course it isn't as safe as running lower boost but lots seem to be willing to take the chance. I would personally give it a shot IF I had a boost guage.

i started playing with one today, have it and a big head was seeing almost 40psi with my big head adjusted for 32-33psi pre intercooler,the truck feels like a frieght train and cleans up the smoke considerably, and spool up is quick, too bad i have to dial down the big head before i nuke my turbo.
The advantage is spool up is considerably faster, and in conjuction with the big head is adjustable. It can also be easily removed for trips to the dealer.

[quote=bigd]i started playing with one today, have it and a big head was seeing almost 40psi with my big head adjusted for 32-33psi pre intercooler,the truck [quote]


:eek:

I am no expert but I don't think it will increase turbo spool up. It should only preven the turbo from dumping excess pressure when over xxx psi.

i am just experimenting but a definite 6 to 7 psi increase on my truck, and noticably quicker spool up, the big head has a bigger diaphram and holds the wastegate closed longer then the stock one, this in conjuction with the boost valve holds it shut even longer and i may lose the quickness when i turn down the big head, which I will do today.

I had something somewhat similar.....sold it to a gas turbo car. With the right fueling you will swing 30 psi anway. If you really want to increase your boost there are much cheaper ways to do it with hardware store type stuff.

I don't know if I would trust anything from PPE after reading the tranny thread in the Aftermarket Allison forum... Not cool at all what they did/were doing... JMHO.

Order online today www.juicegrip.com

:lol: :funnypost

Order online today www.juicegrip.com (http://www.juicegrip.com)

:eek: ):h :rippedhan :Wedgie:

after a couple more test runs with the big head turned down, i still had to high of spikes and removed the boost valve and went back to the same setting with the big head. i was looking for quicker response , but do not feel like blowing up my turbo today

Where are you guys getting your Big Head units from????

Max Power is correct in that it will not increase responce time, it is a simple bleed valve just like the "crack pipe" we supply. You can make it for about $4.00. All you need is about 4" of 1/4" tube and a couple hose clamps.

This is what happens when you bleed boost to the wastegate.:eek:

This happened Friday night at The Racine County,WI truck pulls. I will be posting more pics, probabaly in the competition result as soon as the place standings are in.

Don't try this!! the extra few pounds of boost is NOT worth it!!!!!!!!!

No this isn't my truck, it is a buddy of mine, and it happened while moving down the track, not during the spin out, when the turbo usally barks.

This is what happens when you bleed boost to the wastegate.:eek:

*SIGH*

There goes 4 hours of your life you won't get back (Changing the Turbo)

Go easy on them 'snoflakes' will ya? Ebay is starting to run out.:lol:


Turbo Virginity aside, that is one 'Cherry' that doesn't need popping!):h

It would appear your snoflake barked like a dog before it crashed.

that sucks, do not need that, i have found running lp has made the turbo bark almost disapear, and i run around the 31 to 34 psi for max boost, turn the lp off and you can scare yourself, must burn most of the fuel that causes the bark


This happened Friday night at The Racine County,WI truck pulls. I will be posting more pics, probabaly in the competition result as soon as the place standings are in.

Don't try this!! the extra few pounds of boost is NOT worth it!!!!!!!!!

No this isn't my truck, it is a buddy of mine, and it happened while moving down the track, not during the spin out, when the turbo usally barks.

For those of you guys that are running 30+ lbs of boost, does your turbo sometimes bark in between fast shifts?

Yes mine barks between gears, and yes it spools quicker with less smoke, but I can only speak for my boost mod. Midwest saw the results on his ride back from the truck pull at Jim Falls last year.

I hold 30-31 psi post IC without any barks at all......

I am running a BANKS BIG HEAD and nothing else........

:cool:

I would love to see any boost mod that can make the turbo spool quicker as it is impossible for it to do any such thing. Lets look at what the wastegate does.... it bleeds exhaust off to slow the turbo down plain and simple. Once you get to the point of the wastegate opening it slows the turbo. If you raise the boost it will not spool quicker, what it will do it move the point at which the wastegate opens so the turbo continues to build boost. The time it takes to get to speed is not changed, period! What is changed is where you begin to limit the turbo at and that has nothing to do with time. You can place a restrictor in the line to slow the opening which give a spike in the boost before the wastegate begins to control but that's been kowen to blow up turbo's.

Hey Kennedy Diesel, where do you get that tricky little boost gizmo of yours from???

sometimes yes

I hold 30-31 psi post IC without any barks at all......

I am running a BANKS BIG HEAD and nothing else........

:cool:
what is your boost w/ just the extreme?

I would love to see any boost mod that can make the turbo spool quicker as it is impossible for it to do any such thing. Lets look at what the wastegate does.... it bleeds exhaust off to slow the turbo down plain and simple. Once you get to the point of the wastegate opening it slows the turbo. If you raise the boost it will not spool quicker, what it will do it move the point at which the wastegate opens so the turbo continues to build boost. The time it takes to get to speed is not changed, period! What is changed is where you begin to limit the turbo at and that has nothing to do with time. You can place a restrictor in the line to slow the opening which give a spike in the boost before the wastegate begins to control but that's been kowen to blow up turbo's.
A bleed in a turbo wastegate line can cause the turbo to spool quicker because a wastegate is a spring and springs are progressive. A 10 psi wastegate spring will start to open before 10 psi and start to bleed exhaust gas causing it to spool slow. If you don't believe me, I really don't care if you do or don't, find someone with a Buick GN and bypass the factory wastegate control solenoid or simply put a vacuum plug on the vent and go road test it and feel how much of a dog it is. Then hook it back up the factory way and see how much quicker it spools.

It seems to me that there are 2 separate issues here that have somewhat separate fixes - increasing max boost, and faster boost buildup (faster spooling).

On the faster buildup, several posts in the past have said that that actuator can open early, before the intended max boost level is reached. Banks makes this point in their tech article http://www.bankspower.com/Tech_howturbowastegateworks.cfm and that is one aspect their Big Head addresses. It would seem that this premature opening would cause slower boost buildup.

The other issue, increasing max boost, can be addressed several different ways. Shortening the Big Head pushrod gives higher max boost, as does adding an additional spring on the stock actuator. Both of these will help the spoolup situation too. A bleed orifice increases max boost also, but it is questionable whether it helps the spoolup problem.

Does this make sense or am I the one that's confused?

what is your boost w/ just the extreme?

THAT IS JUST WITH THE XTREME.............

I have seen 40 psi+ on a LOAD CELL DYNO.............:eek: ..............with just the Xtreme............but we don't want to revisit that day.............:rolleyes: ..........I got lucky and just about soiled my shorts............and it happened three times.........:o:

I have IMHO enough fuel to make 40+ psi of boost without any problem..........but I ain't gonna try and see if I can get it again............I don't want to buy another turbo, let alone change it...........30-31 is just fine.

T:cool: NY
.
.
.

I think he wanted to know what your boost #'s are without the big-head.

Without the stock watsegate would make 28 psi...........sometimes falling off to 25 psi when racing.

:cool:
.
.
.

Hey Kennedy Diesel, where do you get that tricky little boost gizmo of yours from???

I'll try to follow up on this soon. I have a converter to swap this weeekend.

A bleed in a turbo wastegate line can cause the turbo to spool quicker because a wastegate is a spring and springs are progressive. A 10 psi wastegate spring will start to open before 10 psi and start to bleed exhaust gas causing it to spool slow. If you don't believe me, I really don't care if you do or don't, find someone with a Buick GN and bypass the factory wastegate control solenoid or simply put a vacuum plug on the vent and go road test it and feel how much of a dog it is. Then hook it back up the factory way and see how much quicker it spools.

You have only reinforced what I have said with your statement. The turbo did not spool quicker it spooled the same in both cases. In one case the wastegate opened sooner than the other slowing the turbo as designed. All a bleeder does is change the point at which the wastegate opens!

As a turbo approaches the set point of the wastegate it begins to lose seating perssure which will allow drive pressure (especially pulses) to slip past. By depriving the air side of the wastegate of signal until a preset point, we are maintaining more wastegate our seating pressure until a point nearing the target boost. By doing so we are using more of the exhaust to drive the turbo therefore spinning it up more quickly.

As a turbo approaches the set point of the wastegate it begins to lose seating perssure which will allow drive pressure (especially pulses) to slip past. By depriving the air side of the wastegate of signal until a preset point, we are maintaining more wastegate our seating pressure until a point nearing the target boost. By doing so we are using more of the exhaust to drive the turbo therefore spinning it up more quickly.
Exactly!

You have only reinforced what I have said with your statement. The turbo did not spool quicker it spooled the same in both cases. In one case the wastegate opened sooner than the other slowing the turbo as designed. All a bleeder does is change the point at which the wastegate opens!
Spooling refers to how quickly a turbo builds boost. If the wastegate pushes off early then it will built boost slower than it would if the wastegate stayed on its seat longer. I don't see how you can say they spool the same both ways. You make no sense.

It seems to me you both are discussing the same thing yet in slighty different ways (or different time points during the wastegates time line).

During normal build up time both a stock gate, or with a bleeder setup, turbine speeds would be the same, absolutly no difference.

Now, there is a point when the exhuast pressures, as John has mentioned will start to try and push the flap off the seat (which would bypass pressure around the turbine slowing the turbine speed before the wastegates intended opening time).

I believe the turbine speed at this point (and before) are the same, but there after, may slightly change with a bleeder or spring block pressure valve setup, but only slightly.

The turbo speed may be different after, becuase the drive pressures do not bypass the turbine there is more pressure to drive the turbine (as with stock, the pulses might push the flap open slightly reduceing drive pressure and turbine speed, but this would not be the case with the installed items).

This is becuase with the installed items, the pressures signal going to the wastegate, is either less (bleeder setup), or not there at all (spring block pressure valve setup), versus the amount of pressure going to it in stock form. This means less pressure working against the internal spring allowing it to do the best possible job holding the flap against the seat.

So, as steve has said, The turbo did not spool quicker it spooled the same in both cases. In one case the wastegate opened sooner than the other slowing the turbo as designed is correct, up until this point.

As john has said As a turbo approaches the set point of the wastegate it begins to lose seating perssure which will allow drive pressure (especially pulses) to slip past. By depriving the air side of the wastegate of signal until a preset point, we are maintaining more wastegate our seating pressure until a point nearing the target boost. By doing so we are using more of the exhaust to drive the turbo therefore spinning it up more quickly.
happens after what steve has said happens.

In general, the wastegate does start to open early in stock form. Using some device to control that, may delay it from opening early, therefore not allowing the turbine to slow in speed before the wastegate fully opens at is intended pressure point.

Then again, I could be completely wrong and not have a clue what I am trying to say, but it wouldn't be the first or the last time that happens.


Why not get rid of the wastegate pod and installed a pneumatic actuator in it place using CO2 or N2O with a hobbs or solid state electric switch. Not practical for everyday use. but this would hold the gate closed until you want it open. You'd really have to play with it to cover the pressure spikes, but it'd be the best for racing short of a true extenal wastegate setup.

Couple this with a electronic 2 solenoid boost controller and you have a sweet setup. Makes for consistent staging of the truck too as you can hold the flap opened to maintain a set launching boost pressure everytime.

Sorry for a long winded story, just trying to cover all the bases.

Now why do we get different (lower) boost levels at our lower gears and get higher boost when in OD?? I can pour the black out the tail pipe from the get go but can't achieve the higher boost until in high gear. Are we looking at EGT that needs to be built up to obtain the higher boost?? Or is there some more computer related crap to figure out here!!!???

Now why do we get different (lower) boost levels at our lower gears and get higher boost when in OD?? I can pour the black out the tail pipe from the get go but can't achieve the higher boost until in high gear. Are we looking at EGT that needs to be built up to obtain the higher boost?? Or is there some more computer related crap to figure out here!!!???

Before I added the Co-Pilot to my truck the boost would fall off as soon as the TC unlocked for shifts, as the stock Allison programming and ECM work together to unlock the TCC and defuel the shifts...........with the Co-Pilot in drag race mode the boost never falls or waivers from 30-31 psi through the 2-5 gear changes...........the only assumption I can make is that the TCC is staying locked on all shifts and loading the motor much harder...........

dmaxallitech has noticed the same thing in his own trucks with the addition of the Co-Pilot........

:cool:
.
.

Improving spoolup speed certainly has been flogged here, but let me add a thought that has not been considered.

The arguments above as to why spoolup time can be improved are ok as far as they go, but, gentlemen, there is an additional factor that must be included. Overshooting the target boost, and the resulting turbo overspeed, must be avoided. This means the actuator must start opening before the target boost is reached. How much before depends on the response time of the actuator. With the inexpensive low-tech stock actuator it is more that just a psi or so. This obviously means that spoolup speed will suffer. Diesel Tech, in his business, has to consider this response time factor. (Elowe65's pnuematic actuator would certainly help the situation!)

This is not to say the response time cannot be improved. The stock actuator starts opening at about 15 psi in bench tests. See http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40129&highlight=boost+actuator Very conservative. The Big Head, with its stiffer spring and the ability to preload it further by shortening the push rod, is one way to move up opening pressure and improve spoolup response.

The various bleed systems can help as well, but there is a big "be very careful" caveat with using an inline orifice. An orifice, during spoolup, causes the pressure at the diaphragm to lag the buildup of turbo boost. To avoid overboost and turbo overspeed, the actuator must start opening at a lower sensed pressure than would be needed without the lag. How much lower is quite a balancing act and not a simple question. Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with an high-boost orifice system until the overboost/overspeed issue has been worked out.

Hope this helps. In reading it over I'm not sure. Response time is a complex question.

I mine as well throw another variable into the mix that no one has mentioned yet, back pressure in the turbine housing. Excessive amounts of back pressure will contribute the wastegate to push off early, probably one of the reasons why the factory actuater starts to open at about 15 pai as stated earlier. A free flowing exhaust will help this particular problem. You combine straight boost pressure on the underside of the wastegate diaphram with excessive backpressure and you can have a serious turbo lag/spool problem. This why an actuator with a heavier spring and a bleed or restrictor in the boost line can help with the spooling of the turbo.

I have 1 ? Does PPE boost valve work? I have the HOT PPE and not the valve and I want a way to SAFLEY build more boost. Is that possible with it or is it shaky on how safe it is. I just want more power with the smoke I make and don't want to "Juice" the turbo. By the way I am surprized that he hasn't said anything in this thread yet. Is the stock set up the only safe way to go and how much boost would I beable to make with the stock set up? I hope to find out when I get the clutch back in and holds.

Thanks
Nathan

Has anyone tried this product?

I've been using an "inline orifice" for close to a year now. Because adjusting the Banks is such a PITA, I've never changed it's stock setting, which is I think about 24lbs. The doohicky I've used had about an 1/8" orifice, which bled enough pressure before the Bighead to bump boost to 28psi. I picked up another of orifice, bored the hole larger, and it yields 31psi. Does it work? You bet. Is it safe? Who knows. I'm still on the stock turbo at 112k/miles, so far so good.

I haven't seen PPE's boost enhancer, however if it costs more than $3-4, go to the hardware store and do it yourself cause for all the benefit this technique offers, it ain't nothing but a short pipe with a hole in the side.

Doug

after my turbo-:t Idid not have time to put the bighead back on and went on a weekend get away, the best boost I seen was 28 lbs plus it seemed to not have the right shift timming to it, It sucked compared to the bleeder that I made before the bighead ( it is adjustable and I was running 32lbs), seems the bleeders will give you more boost but they still dont alow the factory to stop early blowoff , as the banks with the hevier spring,will do, overall Ive run all types of bleeders , two I made and the ppe unit , the bighead is the best I have had on my truck , as for it being a pain in the a$$ to adjust , Im in the process of making a turn buckle for my bighead so you can just loosen a jamb nut and twist the turn buckle, custom tailord boost , :ro)

after my turbo-:t Idid not have time to put the bighead back on and went on a weekend get away, the best boost I seen was 28 lbs plus it seemed to not have the right shift timming to it, It sucked compared to the bleeder that I made before the bighead ( it is adjustable and I was running 32lbs), seems the bleeders will give you more boost but they still dont alow the factory to stop early blowoff , as the banks with the hevier spring,will do, overall Ive run all types of bleeders , two I made and the ppe unit , the bighead is the best I have had on my truck , as for it being a pain in the a$$ to adjust , Im in the process of making a turn buckle for my bighead so you can just loosen a jamb nut and twist the turn buckle, custom tailord boost , :ro)

If you get over by Eric some time I'm sure he'll let you try his boost valve...

Tell us again how to make this "boost valve"??? Or can you sell us one??? It still does not help to get more boost until you can get by the ECM's overboost protection that I am setting at 30psi right now!!! You won't know you set the overboost though until you hit the high gear at 80+ MPH and then the dreaded fall off from defueling!!!!!! Until you can electrically or mechanically can adjust or "fool" the boost sensor your lost. Now I think John mentioned that the Edge will take care of this---but I don't remember??? With the PPE though you are scewched!!!!!!

TTS takes care of it. The Edge will also I believe.

Either go get a small needle valve at the hardware store and a T and use that, make an orficed bleed, or pay some bigger bucks for a pop off type valave or PPE's lil deal.

[quote=hdmod;671769]Tell us again how to make this "boost valve"??? /quote]

one 6" long piece of 1/4" tubeing.
Flare both end up slightly
Drill a .100" hole in the tube 3" from the end
Cut Boost hose to wastgate
Install new tube with two hose clamps
Go test truck
If you need more boost open the hole somemore but donot exceede 32 psi on a stock turbo or it will join the othe'sr that Juice broke

Total cost less than $4.00 for two clamps and one tube

The truth is some people want the parts and instructions even for "Free Mods".

Whoever can provide what the customer wants, when they want it, will get the money.

Tell us again how to make this "boost valve"??? Or can you sell us one??? It still does not help to get more boost until you can get by the ECM's overboost protection that I am setting at 30psi right now!!! You won't know you set the overboost though until you hit the high gear at 80+ MPH and then the dreaded fall off from defueling!!!!!! Until you can electrically or mechanically can adjust or "fool" the boost sensor your lost. Now I think John mentioned that the Edge will take care of this---but I don't remember??? With the PPE though you are scewched!!!!!!

Running an Edge will take care of the boost code. I have a few boost valves ready, but they will be more than $4. Easily adjustable and capable of running your boost up to or beyond the safe line...

how much more than $4. The banks big head I think is like $180 and the PPEs is $24. The cost is the reason I wanted to know if the PPE boost valve was to good or BAD to be true. Sorry I'm just a cheap farmer:D .

If your willing to spend about $10 you can just get a 1/4" steel hose tee and an ice maker bleed valve from Home Depot or a good hardware store. Get a valve that doesnot use plastic parts. Connect the the tee into the wastegate hose with clamps. Connect the free port to the bleed valve. If you donot want to here the noise connect the other end of the bleed valve to the air cleaner. When the bleed valve is closed you will be at stock boost levels, as you open the valve you will raise the boost. Most of these type valves have about 10 turns before fully open so they work just fine as long as no plastic parts are used. So now you have the $4.00 fixed adjustment way and the $10.00 adjustable way. Event a cheap farmer can afford these!

[quote=hdmod;671769]Tell us again how to make this "boost valve"??? /quote]

one 6" long piece of 1/4" tubeing.
Flare both end up slightly
Drill a .100" hole in the tube 3" from the end
Cut Boost hose to wastgate
Install new tube with two hose clamps
Go test truck
If you need more boost open the hole somemore but donot exceede 32 psi on a stock turbo or it will join the othe'sr that Juice broke

Total cost less than $4.00 for two clamps and one tube

Drill a .100 hole?
thats pretty big hole, almost 1/8 of an inch. Would we want to dump off that much precious boost into the atmosphere?

Can we order parts from you for $4.00?:grd:

[quote=Diesel Tech;672314]



Can we order parts from you for $4.00?:grd:

NAAAAW!

If it said TTS on it it would have to be at least 100.00):h :lol: :joke:

I have to admit this may be the least expensive way to increase boost I've seen. However if adjustability is a factor, nothing beats a good pair of Juice Grips...and I hear the 'Grips are dual purpose too - if you go too far, you can use the 'Grips to fish the impeller remnants out of the engine.;)

I have to admit this may be the least expensive way to increase boost I've seen. However if adjustability is a factor, nothing beats a good pair of Juice Grips...and I hear the 'Grips are dual purpose too - if you go too far, you can use the 'Grips to fish the impeller remnants out of the engine.;)

LOL... I'll never live that down):h

Ah well...... at this point i am sure google has a link for them!:lol:

I have to admit this may be the least expensive way to increase boost I've seen. However if adjustability is a factor, nothing beats a good pair of Juice Grips...and I hear the 'Grips are dual purpose too - if you go too far, you can use the 'Grips to fish the impeller remnants out of the engine.;)

What are Juice grips? Sorry never heard the story so wanted to join in on the fun!:lol:

What are Juice grips? Sorry never heard the story so wanted to join in on the fun!:lol:

LOOOONG story.

If you do a search on Juicegrips(TM) you will find some hilarity and the answers you seek.

JuiceGrips = Proof the LB7 turbo needs a wastegate. ;)

JuiceGrips = The reason that Ebay dosent have any LB7 turbos anymore

A properly sized ball and spring with a hole MUCH smaller than .100" will produce quicker boost response with less waste.

Ok : I'm gonna buil my own, Thanks