Guess I just never thought about it, but
this article makes me want to install
a microphone cut off switch.....

FBI monitors converstations via OnStar (http://news.com.com/2100-1029_3-5109435.html)

Anyone else following these types of topics?

thanks,

T.

And they looked at me like I was stupid for NOT wanting onstar!


I tell you these things can lead to alot of headaches.

Never do anything you wouldn't want the entire world to see/hear and then you don't have to worry about it.

Bronco-


Good point. However this is very disturbing to me. I have nothing to hide, however if this is ok, when will it be ok for Big Brother to have taps in my house?? Or in my camper?? Or how 'bout public restrooms?? Where do you draw the line as to when and where you can have your own privacy and when you can't??? I don't mind the camera's in banks, and such for security reasons. I do mind having my privacy invaded in my own personal stuff!! If the FBI wants to "tap" in then they can help with the friggin truck payment as well!! Wonder what it takes to disable the system.. I don't care for it and didn't renew it after my free year, but it came with the truck and I liked everything else...who'd a thunk it would come back to haunt me...


Bob

It's freedom at any cost, not peace at any cost.


Next thing you know you'll be cruising along checkin' out your latest mod and two days later you get a speedin' ticket in the mail.


OnStar...."Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent at this time." http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


JP

just glad i don't have it..

no biggie take the antenna off

You don’t think you are being monitored right now??? You are on your land line phone, cell phone, emails, even your CB radio, if you are not getting OnStar because of your fears of being monitored, then you might as well pitch all the above.

Try looking for information on making a bomb or talk about snuffing the Prez in any chat room, see if you don’t get a knock on your door.

Unfortunately it has become a way of life, the terrorist have already won.

NO flames intended JMHO.

The onstar is easy to disable if you want. open the glovebox...all the way (pushing in the sides to release it). Stand on your head and look behind the airbag and you will see a silver module. That is the Onstar module. Disconnect antenna wires or the whole darn thing.


Honestly though, you'd know if onstar was activated and being monitored. Someone could only trace after a call is initiated. GPS info is only sent at call initiation. (I have some colleagues working at OnStar and I had asked).


Personally, if you want to see me walking around my house naked in the morning, so be it, and just stand outside cause we don't have curtains. If you want to hear what I say in my house/car, the door is open. I am an honest guy that has nothing to hide. If I don't like you I'll tell you. If I do like you, you'd probably already be on the couch with a beer in hand.


MHO,


MN

the monintoring you refer to leads to preservation of our way of life. bad guys dont always drive rental trucks. usually this is always in the background, you only here about something when it surfaces.


Enjoy life and don't sweat the small stuff. Living in the greatest country in the world still beats other places. like Canada !!! J/K http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Not too concerned, I am sure the big brother has more important things to do than listen in to the cab of our truck. Would be a pretty boring event! If worried, the microphone on the driverside of the over head console can just be pulled off to unplug right? That would still leave all the other info hooked up for Onstar (key inside unlock, theft shutdown, airbag deployment etc), put the mic in the glove box and plug it in if you need it.

Now if I could disable the microphone in the truck, then maybe I wouldn't be so worried about being overheard while I tell my passengers "Hey watch this!!" http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Ok so I have had some time to cool down about this....


Bob

This is only one scenario, but these battles have been faught in other automotive related areas as well.


Examples:


Early on in the OnStar program, it was proposed that engine diag information would be automatically sent to OnStar with a "phone home" feature. You get home from getting the groceries and there is a vm waiting for you on the answering machine from your dealer saying that your car needs a new O2 sensor and need to be brought in asap. The court ruled this was invasion of privacy unless the owner consented to this in advance. Way too much room for abuse.


When the Saturns were first put on the road - it was proposed that a "black box" be installed in all the vehicles for saftey and recovery purposes. This "black box" would be tied into the computer of the cars and would constantly record speed, accel/deceleration, steering wheel postion, brake application, signals, and with an internal gyroscope, even know the true orientation and movement of the car. Your actions could be easily correlated to the car's movements and orientations. The insurance industry went nuts! This was the greatest idea since sliced bread! If I recall, law enformament agencies warmed up to the idea s well. Think of it - it was no longer hearsay or recollection to rebuild an accident. You plug the box into a computer and it would simulate the whole incident.


Well, this was shot down as well (in the courts) by numerous privacy advocates. Again, too intrusive, too much room for abuse.


BTW - an article last year in one of my automotive rags outlined a car rental company that IS actually using these black boxes and it is in the fine print of your contract you sign - so BEWARE. The article was about a guy that was charged $100's of dollars over what the rental contract stated. Apparently, he had a lead foot and drove the car over 75mph for X amount of time and that constitutes speeding which incurred extra charges from the rental company because of unnecessary wear and tear in the vehicle. Is this specifc case, I think he took them to court over some technicality and won - but it is scary nonetheless.


So, I guess I am not real suprised about the OnStar situation. It is not the first nor the last attempt to look over our shoulders with or without our knowledge.

This is only one scenario, but these battles have been faught in other automotive related areas as well.


Examples:


When the Saturns were first put on the road - it was proposed that a "black box" be installed in all the vehicles for saftey and recovery purposes. This "black box" would be tied into the computer of the cars and would constantly record speed, accel/deceleration, steering wheel postion, brake application, signals, and with an internal gyroscope, even know the true orientation and movement of the car. Your actions could be easily correlated to the car's movements and orientations. The insurance industry went nuts! This was the greatest idea since sliced bread! If I recall, law enformament agencies warmed up to the idea s well. Think of it - it was no longer hearsay or recollection to rebuild an accident. You plug the box into a computer and it would simulate the whole incident.


Well, this was shot down as well (in the courts) by numerous privacy advocates. Again, too intrusive, too much room for abuse.


So, I guess I am not real suprised about the OnStar situation. It is not the first nor the last attempt to look over our shoulders with or without our knowledge.


FWIW, GM has had a "black box" in the Silverado since
1997. Is there a Black box in your car? (http://www.techtv.com/news/print/0,23102,3391730,00.html)

A google search shows many more instances too; here's
one from the Washington Times.
'Black box' for cars a surprise (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030701-110645-1038r.htm)

What none of these articles tell you is
how to remove the "black box" or disable it....
It's NOT an emissions device so it should not
be considered "tampering", more rather more
like the Airbag. You can disable the airbags
so why not the "black box"?

(just my opinon)

T.

Something to think about.


I am very well versed in electronics. You know Ohms law and that kinda stuff. Electronics theory is taught based on certain pricipals. Electron flow ect.ect. You are taught that this is how it works and this is how you make it and this is how you service it. It is all based on the theory of electronics. It dosn't matter what college you go to or whose oscilliscope you use, it is all based on the same theory of electronics. I can be handed a circuit board and just buy looking at the compents on the board I can tell you what the purpose of the circuit board is. I.E. stereo amplifier.


Now here is the fun part. We all agree that there are multiple theorys on things like quantum physics,the origin of the universe, ect.ect.


Lets pretend that there is an alternative theory of electronics. Meaning the same componets on that circuit board I mentioned earlier can actually perform a seperate task other than being a stereo amplifier. 99.9999% of the electronics engineers would tell you this is a stereo amplifier. The guy with the alternate theroy of electronics and electron flow might tell you that it is a receiver/transmitter circuit board. If circuits are not truly what we are taught they are then we really have no idea what they are being used for.


Disclaimer: This post is not designed to insinuate that there is a alternate theory of electronics. It is not intended to create hysteria or discomfort. Paranoia is a treatable mental illness. You could just quit smoking so much grass.


Edited by: Bronco

I'm not paranoid, everyone really is out to get me.


Roses are red


Violets are blue


I'm a pscyzophrenic


and so am I.


JP

i used to be pscyzophrenic.... bet we are over that now..


how bout this... a drug bust took place last thanksgiving on pensacola beach (operation sandshaker) and the fed's had cameras installed in a suspects house for several months. i dont care if he was selling 20 pounds of cocain a day. they had enough evidence with the 30000 phone calls they recorded , tapes of him picking up drugs in miami... loads of ppl willing to say in court he sold them drugs...so why a web cam in the house.... voyerism.... bunch of pervs spanking their monkey

It's freedom at any cost, not peace at any cost.


Next thing you know you'll be cruising along checkin' out your latest mod and two days later you get a speedin' ticket in the mail.


OnStar...."Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent at this time." http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


JP








DONT JOKE!!!!!!! they will be able to do that very soon!! it's called OBD-III it will monitor everything and report to sensors along the road side... sensors are already going up around our freeways!!





TOTALLY SUCKS!!

So Bronco u mean to tell me that the TV is a 2 way device.


OOPS, WE ARE ALL IN TROUBLE http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

They already monitor every electronic signal sent in the world its called project Eschalon, run by the NSA. In other words they are everywhere. I have OnStar, they would have to be incredibly bored to monitor what goes on in my truck, maybe in my Single days they might have got some entertainment.


Its not the option for Criminals, Gangsters, or Terrorists, but I like that I can get a diagnosis going down the Fwy at 80 miles and hour, automatic 911 when airbags deploy, Vehicle tracking when its stolen, I even get an Insurance discount for having it. Big Brother is already everywhere, we just made it easier for them now with the Patriot Act.


OnStar is a nice feature, being afraid of it is like being afraid of your cell phone, computer, palm pilot, ATM. If they want to check you out, they have many avenues, its easy. And I am sure they do it all the time. It is nice to see that the Courts do try and curtail some of their overzealous attempts to snoop on everyones lives.

In fact this last post will be red flagged somewhere because of the words "Eschalon", "NSA", "Terrorists", you get the jist of how this system works.


So I guess now I have to worry about the worm they can install in your computer that keeps track of your key strokes, this way even if you erase your harddrive they still have a record. But I have nothing to hide and unless they like Diesel trucks they will be bored to tears.

There is nothing you can do about it. So you might as well be proud of what you are doing. No point in walking around looking over you shoulder. If somebody wants to watch me pick my nose so be it. If somebody wants to listen to me bitch about traffic or fantazize about the babe in the Accord next to me so be it. Dmax Tim, it is the smoke detectors you gotta watch out for. Federlly mandatated, always on and you even pick up the tab on the power bill. Go figure.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. "


Benjamin Franklin (http://www.worldofquotes.com/author/Benjamin-Franklin/1/index.html)





"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground. "


Thomas Jefferson (http://www.worldofquotes.com/author/Thomas-Jefferson/1/index.html)

Great Quotes Edski !!

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

PDS

No less true today than 250 years ago.

ski1,


I'm from CANADA and my wife and I have travelled quite a bit in the USA and as a matter of fact my wife and I are down here for the winter in the Rio Grande Valley, Texas, for 5 month's this winter. We both like to visit down here but we we sure like to go back to CANADA because it's our home. I'd sure like to know why you are putting down CANADA? Have you ever been across the border and actually travelled in our beautifull country or are you some young punk who thinks it smart to put down another country, just because you're an ignorant twit?............By the looks of your last name,LESZCZYNSKI, maybe you just got off the boat from some BROKE ASSWIPE country in Europe somewhere.................? By the way I also lived in Germany for 3 years while I was in the CANADIAN AIR FORCE and take it from me....CANADA has EUROPE beat all to hell, but you probably know that already, since you, or your parents got the hell out of there as fast as you could, like the rest of our ancesters.................http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

ski1,


I'm from CANADA and my wife and I have travelled quite a bit in the USA and as a matter of fact my wife and I are down here for the winter in the Rio Grande Valley, Texas, for 5 month's this winter. We both like to visit down here but we we sure like to go back to CANADA because it's our home. I'd sure like to know why you are putting down CANADA? Have you ever been across the border and actually travelled in our beautifull country or are you some young punk who thinks it smart to put down another country, just because you're an ignorant twit?............By the looks of your last name,LESZCZYNSKI, maybe you just got off the boat from some BROKE ASSWIPE country in Europe somewhere.................? By the way I also lived in Germany for 3 years while I was in the CANADIAN AIR FORCE and take it from me....CANADA has EUROPE beat all to hell, but you probably know that already, since you, or your parents got the hell out of there as fast as you could, like the rest of our ancesters.................http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif








http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif











WOW, Tell us how you really feel!

I think when ski1 wrote " J/K" he meant "just kidding."


Let's not get our panties in a wad on this forum. Plenty of that available elsewhere.


Now kiss and make up.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif


Jim

Sorry, I missed the J/K (just kidding) But I still don't see the humour in a remark like that. I guess you have to come from a latino state like New Mexico to get it............http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Did I miss something? Who picked on Canada? I have to laugh at the blame it on Canada crowd, seems like we need scape goats, and they just might be the flavor of the week, well I guess I should go and eat some Freedom Fries, to put it all in perspectivehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif.

Ski 1 wrote:


Enjoy life and don't sweat the small stuff. Living in the greatest country in the world still beats other places. like Canada !!! J/K http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big%20Smile.gif


I just do not understand the New Mexico reference? You crazy Canadians!

Ski 1 wrote:


Enjoy life and don't sweat the small stuff. Living in the greatest country in the world still beats other places. like Canada !!! J/K http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big%20Smile.gif


I just do not understand the New Mexico reference? You crazy Canadians!





Bronco


All I did was check out his location on his post: NM or in other words it says that he's from NEW MEXICO. Yours says Colorado and mine says Alberta, Canada, got it?????? I guess you should refer to us as "smart" Canadians because we could figure that out real easy, and without help..........J/Khttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Got me there!

Hey, don't forget 1812 and the burning of the White House...J/k


I love you guys, mean it, hahaha

Ok -- so where is this box & how do I disable it?

You can take the microphone off by dropping the overhead and unplugging it. Mine is sitting in a box in the garage. The underhood fuse to it is in the console. Don't want it to mess up my programming. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Sorry, I meant the Event Data Recorder. i don't want it working against me.

Sorry, I meant the Event Data Recorder. i don't want it working against me.


Sorry Baldy, you can't "keep it from working against you" because it is the ECM computer that is "working for you" making the injection and engine operate. In short - the main computer that operates your truck has data capture that can be downloaded, part of its integral structure, not something separate or secondary. Saw a show on either the Learning Channel or History Channel a couple of months ago where a California Highway Patrol accident investigator showed a commercial "reader" hooked up to an ECM out of a vehicle that displayed several parameters plotted for time on a computer screen: Vehicle speed sensor, throttle position, brake light circuit on/off, etc.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifCorporate bureaucratshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

I doubt they would just AUTOMATICALLY be able to look at this data without the necessary warrants being issued by a judge. On the other hand, in Ontario we pay a fortune for insurance so if my rates were to be significantly reduced...yeah right.


I am personally aware of instances where this data has been obtained by LE, without authorization, due to them having an "in" at the shop the wreck was taken to. Not trying to raise a debate or appear mysterious but I wasn't personally involved so I really can't say more.


After your 1 year free OnStar is over, I thought they let it go a while, then called you and if you say no, not interested, they disable it as otherwise they'd be picking up the cell fees to keep the account active? OnStar doesn't own the cellular companies. They can't control the entire infrastructure so I really don't get how people could think they could be monitored if they simply let the service expire. Am I missing something here?

Not on mine... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

After my one year free, I missed cancelling it by a week and got charged the full monthly onstar charge. The goofy lady kept trying to convince me that I needed it for saftey reasons. Since you can sign up by pressing the button whenever you want, I told her that I'd resubscribe (in a ditch if necessary) if I had bad trouble...

Onstar is WAY too pricy....

I removed my fuse - will this keep it from initializing or receiving/sending calls?