First off... MANY humble apologies if I'm duplicating other conversations. I've done a search and really couldn't find where this has been discussed.

The review of the 2011 says, "The Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) used in the process does require refilling every 5,000 miles."

When you refill the fluid, are we talking about a couple quarts or several gallons? How much fluid does refilling require?

Also, does anybody know the price of this stuff? How much coin will you have to put down every 5000 miles to refill this tank? I'm sure it will all depend on load and driving styles and such, I'm just looking for generalities. How much of a financial burden will this DEF replacement be??

Do big rigs use this stuff? Any professional drivers out there with experience using DEF?? I'd really be interested in your opinions as well.

Thanks in advance!!

Ya this sucks.

Click (http://www.truckline.com/AdvIssues/Energy/Diesel%20Exhaust%20Fluid%20Documents/Diesel%20Exhaust%20Fluid%20%E2%80%93%20Frequently% 20Asked%20Questions%20%28May%202009%29.pdf)

about $2.50 per gallon and the tank is 5 gallons, not a big financial burden, but annoying for sure.

about $2.50 per gallon and the tank is 5 gallons, not a big financial burden, but annoying for sure.

This is exactly what I was looking for. :thankyou2

Underlord, I appreciate your info too... Good stuff.

"How much will DEF cost? DEF costs are driven by the price of urea and the quantity of
DEF purchased. Urea prices in turn are driven by global supply and demand. Last year
the price of urea varied from $1.73/gallon to $2.73/gallon. The retail price of DEF is
expected to vary from $2 to $6 per gallon depending upon the quantity purchased (note
small containers of DEF sold at automobile dealerships will likely be priced higher)"

from the link.

Based on the 300 miles/gal of DEF and a $2.73/gallon retail cost, it would cost you an additional $0.17/gal if mpg was 18mpg. Basically, 300 miles/18 mpg is 16.67 gallons of diesel. Divide that $2.73/16.67 gal to come up with $0.17/gal. What I'm trying to present is that every time you fill up with diesel it's going to cost an additional $0.17/gal for the DEF. I realize that's solely based on estimates of costs and consumption. So it may not appear to be a "financial burden" but over the life of the vehicle these costs can add up. Now if they get 10% better mileage then some of that can be absorbed. I just don't see how increasing power is going to in turn increase mileage. More power=more fuel. Period.

Found this looking around.

http://powerstore.cummins.com/default.cfm?fuse=productdetails&browse_by=productType&brand=all&product_type=CCUMDODGE&base_product_name=FF5020

At $7.99/gal that would be $40/5000 miles. Surely the price would come down I think with higher demand.

im sure that CARB will now attempt to find something wrong with urea, and it's use and start taxing the shit out of it

yep any excuse for a tax.

Will the trucks be able to tell if you just put water in the tank instead of the urea blend DEF?

Based on the 300 miles/gal of DEF and a $2.73/gallon retail cost, it would cost you an additional $0.17/gal if mpg was 18mpg. Basically, 300 miles/18 mpg is 16.67 gallons of diesel. Divide that $2.73/16.67 gal to come up with $0.17/gal. What I'm trying to present is that every time you fill up with diesel it's going to cost an additional $0.17/gal for the DEF. I realize that's solely based on estimates of costs and consumption. So it may not appear to be a "financial burden" but over the life of the vehicle these costs can add up. Now if they get 10% better mileage then some of that can be absorbed. I just don't see how increasing power is going to in turn increase mileage. More power=more fuel. Period.

Actually, GM is reporting an 11% increase in mileage with the LML over the LMM, in part due to the fact that the DEF allows for less frequent DPF regens; LML every ~700 mi vs. LMM every ~ 400 mi.

$3 for a gallon of DEF
5 gallon tank lasts 5000 miles
So DEF would cost $15 every 5000 miles = $.003 per mile

Will the trucks be able to tell if you just put water in the tank instead of the urea blend DEF?

Yep, sensors.

$3 for a gallon of DEF
5 gallon tank lasts 5000 miles
So DEF would cost $15 every 5000 miles = $.003 per mile


yep, my numbers were off. I was looking at that site that was pertaining to semi truck engines and they were assuming 6 mpg. Guess I didn't read close enough!

It wouldnt surprise me at all if they jack the price of this stuff up. B/c if they now you need and and can't drive without it what do you think will happen. They pry won't go out of hand with it but i would say its safe to say that by the time these trucks hit the lots that the price will be up.

wonder if a farmer could make his own fluid from urea he gets to plant corn with?

According to the article, you will be able to make your own.....

According to the article and the restriction of a vehicle to 5mph if you don't keep it full, big brother is watching really close. This is utterly ridiculous and the EPA and the global hoax BS are now intruding into every facet of our lives in the name of control and the almighty dollar. Insanity at every level was required to allow this to pass into law.

According to the article, you will be able to make your own.....

According to the article and the restriction of a vehicle to 5mph if you don't keep it full, big brother is watching really close. This is utterly ridiculous and the EPA and the global hoax BS are now intruding into every facet of our lives in the name of control and the almighty dollar. Insanity at every level was required to allow this to pass into law.

WOW! Really???????

Let's see the new 2011's are gonna produce 400+HP and 700+ ft.lbs., with better economy and CLEAN no smoke emissions. Somehow this is NOT an improvement to you??????

Guys with trucks that are 5-6 years old are going nuts with tuners to get similar performance numbers and blowing huge clouds of black smoke from every stop light. And you think that would be better???

Why don't you go visit Shanghai and TRY to breathe the smoke filled air there, and then come back and tell us emission controls are a bad idea.

WOW! Really???????

Let's see the new 2011's are gonna produce 400+HP and 700+ ft.lbs., with better economy and CLEAN no smoke emissions. Somehow this is NOT an improvement to you??????

Guys with trucks that are 5-6 years old are going nuts with tuners to get similar performance numbers and blowing huge clouds of black smoke from every stop light. And you think that would be better???

Why don't you go visit Shanghai and TRY to breathe the smoke filled air there, and then come back and tell us emission controls are a bad idea.



I will take all the chassis improvements of a 2011 (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357212)any day........ And take the emissions in stride......... Really with fewer LML regens than an LMM .........

The LML will cost less to run DEF refills and all.........

But there will be those that spend their moneys deleting the DPF and DEF requirements - that's money well spent to them........... For off-road use only of course...


:rolleyes:

Click (http://www.truckline.com/AdvIssues/Energy/Diesel%20Exhaust%20Fluid%20Documents/Diesel%20Exhaust%20Fluid%20%E2%80%93%20Frequently% 20Asked%20Questions%20%28May%202009%29.pdf)

In this article link above it states that DEF freezes below 12F. Considering the sensors in the truck will put you in limp mode when all is not well with your DEF, is there a cold weather formula? Living in ND, 12 above is one of the warmer days.
Has anyone heard about cold weather operations for this?

In this article link above it states that DEF freezes below 12F. Considering the sensors in the truck will put you in limp mode when all is not well with your DEF, is there a cold weather formula? Living in ND, 12 above is one of the warmer days.
Has anyone heard about cold weather operations for this?

The tank is heated, since all urea should be warm when it comes out of it's holding tank.

:D

In this article link above it states that DEF freezes below 12F. Considering the sensors in the truck will put you in limp mode when all is not well with your DEF, is there a cold weather formula? Living in ND, 12 above is one of the warmer days.
Has anyone heard about cold weather operations for this?
X2. Anyone heard GM's solution for this?

The tank is heated, since all urea should be warm when it comes out of it's holding tank.

:D

What about when it sits overnight with the truck shut off???

The heater quickly thaws it, it's all been thought of.

To DEF or not to DEF, that is the question.

What U dudes don't trust GM? At least out fly-by-wire pedals seem to work, unlike Toyota......

;)

as far as the cold weather thing, COME ON guys, really, you dont think GM considered the fact that guys will use the truck below 12*?????

When you refill the fluid, are we talking about a couple quarts or several gallons? How much fluid does refilling require?
Also, does anybody know the price of this stuff?
Thanks in advance!!
Sorry to hi-jack your thread. Didn't mean for it to ver off your original questions this much.

To DEF or not to DEF, that is the question.
What U dudes don't trust GM? At least out fly-by-wire pedals seem to work, unlike Toyota......;)
Yah I trust em...I own and drive two GM's. Nothing is ever perfect though.

as far as the cold weather thing, COME ON guys, really, you dont think GM considered the fact that guys will use the truck below 12*?????
I think it is obvious GM thought this through, however what would a forum be if we didn't ask questions about things we are unfamiliar with?

I think that it wont be long before the formula for it is changed so that it wont freeze.

Should be doing this in reverse:

$800 turbo back exhaust
$1200 Tuner to block codes

=$2000 extra cost
=$.08 per mile or $1.44/gal (based on 18mpg)
= Paid for after the first 25000 miles (not even broke in)
= Truck that gets 23+ miles per gallon, 450 hp, and a huge smile on your face.

^^ and no warranty for when something stupid breaks....priceless

:):):d

3.00 a gallon in Minnesota. Just looked at it at the truck stop in South St.Paul.

i can't find article, but article was complaining that a mfgr is selling gallon jugs for around $35-50 targeted to VW/Mercedes(bluetec engines). so i presume that the batteries are powering the DEF tank heater, good thing cold weather doesn't require extra cranking amps and battery output is not effected by cold weather. i imagine the cure for this will be 3rd battery or diesel fired engine heater. i wonder does the DEF tank have AC for when it gets over 86*F, wouldn't want that bottled piss to get uncomfortable. seems like it has short shelf life also.

Hey all, found a great article of def fluid that is being run in Ford Superduties. It is good reading even though they are Ford trucks.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/03/how-well-does-the-2011-ford-fseries-super-duty-perform.html

Atleast the Ford's are super reliable. They can last 7500 miles. LOL

^^ Not in a row..

i can't find article, but article was complaining that a mfgr is selling gallon jugs for around $35-50 targeted to VW/Mercedes(bluetec engines). so i presume that the batteries are powering the DEF tank heater, good thing cold weather doesn't require extra cranking amps and battery output is not effected by cold weather. i imagine the cure for this will be 3rd battery or diesel fired engine heater. i wonder does the DEF tank have AC for when it gets over 86*F, wouldn't want that bottled piss to get uncomfortable. seems like it has short shelf life also.

good thing the engine doesnt even start using/worrying about thawing the DEF until its been running for at least a few minutes. ;)

sorry but I still wonder if you could put in a 2nd def tank for aux 'fluid'. someone stupid behind you and flip a switch for your aux fluid injection.

ever been in a sauna when someone goes on the heater?

Anybody who has enough money to spend on the diesel option on a new truck can afford to pay for the ad blue. Since urea is basicly processed swine urine, I'm sure that 2011 new truck buyers who are flat broke can substitute their own brand of additive. And no, there will be no difference in odor.

there goes all my fun