ok i know you can run the 5068 cam ring in the 5021 to achieve more fuel but with the out the wester reflash your rate doesnt go up that much..

so...
1. why is the rate limited w/o the reflash does the computer restrict the flow once it hits a certain point?
2. what is the physical differences between the 5021 & 5068 cam rings.. could this difference be increased to get even more flow?
3. is there any cam rings more radical then the 5068 that could be run?

1. Its an electronic pump operated by the PCM, which has a programmed max pulse width = max fuel delivery quantity.

2. 5068 cam ring has a faster ramp angle, meaning same pulse widths = more fuel.

3. There are only 3 cam rings for DS pumps, 5521 (32096/30909(old)), 5068(30501) and 5827 (???) and you can pretty much forget about those, never seen one, probably won't for a while to come, only Stanadyne and AM General have any.

1. why is the rate limited w/o the reflash does the computer restrict the flow once it hits a certain point?
ECM sets max output & Pump has physical limits.
2. what is the physical differences between the 5021 & 5068 cam rings.. could this difference be increased to get even more flow?
Nearly identical, most claims are bogus, no-mods applicable.
3. is there any cam rings more radical then the 5068 that could be run?
No, only two profiles that will fit pump. Nearly identical.

So your saying Stanadyne made 2 different pumps, with different PN cam rings and different calibrations, but the cam rings are identical?

how much more fuel will the DB2831 or the DB2833 put out percentage wise compared to the 5021 and 5068?

thanks brian

DB2831-4911 maxxed out will be right at 80cc, which about the same as the limit for the 5521 pumps.

DB2833- will probably top 90+, but I could only guess, so it would be comparable to 5068+Wester's Reflash (talk to CanadianRigger).

DB2831-5722 4 plunger blows them all away.

sorry i was refering to the 2831.. could i order one of these through you TDG or is there a better (hah try not being bias) or cheaper source where i could find a 4 plunger pump? and what does it take to run one of these? i assume they're mechanical

Brian

Contact your local Stanadyne authorized fuel injection shop. Price around. They will have to order it.

So if I buy a DB2 pump and blot it up and hook up a cable throttle and leave the pedle with the sensor, the computer will need another "jumper" plug to help the tranny work then, right? That is what I want then, a good ol' mechanical pump to put the fuel in my motor. WHo makes the retro kit then to make this work?

you make it. A few have done it, not too hard, I guess.

oh, ok. I have bought a kit before that i hooked up to my '79 gas chev pickup that let my 200-4R electronic overdrive trans know when to shift by using manifold vacuum, but that was different I guess. The IP needs to be hooked up or jumped then, right? And then there is no need for a PMD, MAP sensor or CPS, right?

Need a set of late model mechanical pump high pressure lines.

from like a 4911? i have a set from that pump, will that work?

Making the engine run is the easy part, its making the tranny work thats the problem.

I can't see anyone stocking the 4plunger pump or head for the 5722, except Peninsular.

what is a L2-db2831-4970J ? would that pump compete with a DB2831-5722

4970 is 6.5 Super Duty, Almost identical to DB2831-4911, little less HP though, and nowhere near the 4 plunger pump.

ok so just to make sure i'm 100% clear on this so i don't have to wonder anymore CR has topped out the performance of any of the DS elec. pumps that will just bolt up to our engines with 92 mm3?

And a wicked hot ECM..

CR has topped out the performance of any of the DS elec. pumps that will just bolt up to our engines with 92 mm3?
Yeah, not much more you can sqeeze out of them without some pretty considerable mods.

Don't tell me you want more than 92!?!?

would you stop talking to me if i did? i mean i know i might not be following the line of conventional thinking and maybe or better yet probably... i'll grenade my engine.. but hey its my problem.. i just want to see what i can do with what i have.. so if you know something that you wouldn't mind sharing with me i'd greatly appreciate it.


-brian

Naw TDG Wouldn't quit talking to you for that, he's like most of us and interested in what this engine can do in a non-conventional way :)

Yeah, knock yourself out, buy a 5722 and bottom out the leaf springs.

You mean 92mm is all i can do with the electronics, c'mon TDG i know we can do better than that with some more tweaking and flashing.

I'm sure hoping this IC will put me near the 9 second mark with the 0-60's, then if i need more fuel i'll be knocking at your door again TDG.

Geez, I guess I'm behind the times, 92mm is old hat already?

Hmmmm, perhaps there's a couple tricks left up my sleeve.

I'm all outta cam rings at the moment, I'll test some stuff with 5521 pumps and see what I can come up with.

What are we looking for here, an even 100? more?????

Let me see, 110 mm3 will make Bagalac and I be quiet for a while. That is, until Bagalac's twin GM-8 setup is ready to really put the hurt on a 6.5 and then 140 mm3 might be needed.

Geez, I guess I'm behind the times, 92mm is old hat already?

Hmmmm, perhaps there's a couple tricks left up my sleeve.

I'm all outta cam rings at the moment, I'll test some stuff with 5521 pumps and see what I can come up with.

What are we looking for here, an even 100? more?????

LOL Ya guys are lots of fun

Let me see, 110 mm3 will make Bagalac and I be quiet for a while. That is, until Bagalac's twin GM-8 setup is ready to really put the hurt on a 6.5 and then 140 mm3 might be needed.
I've got a prototype that just might be the only Stage1 upgrade in existence for a GM-8 turbo, CanadianRigger is up for testing very soon, stay tuned. :ro)

Yup! What he said!:D

TDG chicago TDP is aware of the upgrade for the GM8 we've looked around to try and find parts to make our own frankenstein gm8s but haven't found anythign yet he's moving into the garrett turbo realm while i'm sticking with what i have laying around for the time being..

but yeah 110 + mm3 would make me very happy

-brian

You guys crack me up... I thought I was bad wanting more fuel and all, but after 2 overhauls and continual overheating problems I am on the verge of giving up...

I've got a prototype that just might be the only Stage1 upgrade in existence for a GM-8 turbo, CanadianRigger is up for testing very soon, stay tuned. :ro)

AW Tell Us more plzzzzzzzzz:(

I assure you, Russel will have pictures, graphs, the works when he gets this puppy.

But I can't let the cat out of the bag just yet, I have to make sure it will work ;)

i know i know i know!! :ro)

Does anybody make engine diapers for a 6.5, You know, to catch all the bottom end pieces that could come loose?

A strong bottom end will be resulted by a balances rotating assembly, 18:1 coated pistons, shot-peened and polished rods, 5 main cap stud girdle, STD-STD crank that has been radiused, a 599 block .020 over and lots-o-luck;) . No diper needed for my 6.5. I have a T04 Garrett in the waiting with a 3.5 inch down pipe, no waste gate yet though.

Chicago Shouldn't your sig read 438 lb-Ft? Not ld?

oops, my bad, i knot a gode spelar. Serry

Cool Chicago, I was just kidding about the diaper. I was watching NHRA stuff again!! There is a much finer line on a Top Fuel Dragster or Funny Car than any other creation when it comes to proper fuel distribution and "How much is enough?". But, I've seen a few diesels that were built to handle a certain load and, when exceeded too often they became a gernade.

We have an annual "Truck Drags" event at our local track. A guy with a twin turbo Detroit blew the bottom end while trying to "improve performance" by adding 20# of Nitrous in addition to lots of fuel and high boost levels. He quoted, "Boost in excess of 75#!" Don't know how much truth there was to it but the engine showed tremendous destruction.

the engine showed tremendous destruction.

Ahh! Show and tell.