Just traded my 2001 8.1 Allison 3500 for a new 2005 Duramax/Allison 3500 SRW Crewcab. The 8.1 had been flawless for the time I owned it and was still perfect. Just really wanted to try a Duramax. We use this truck to bring in loads of utility trailers that we sell. The trip to bring in these trailers is about 170 miles. We go up there about once a week empty and pull new trailers back here to sell. The weight of these varies from around 6000 to 10,000 pounds. The 8.1 generally turned in a mileage of around 12 going up empty and around 6 to 8 coming back loaded.

On our first trip using the 2005 Duramax, we got 18 MPG going up and according to the DIC were getting around 10 MPG coming back. Did not get to verify that "loaded mileage" with a fill up because the truck did not make it back. After pulling the load (about 6500 lbs) about 100 miles of the way back, the "low coolant warning" message appeared. We stopped and heard venting of what seems to be combustion gasses from the coolant reservoir. We did not ever have a high temperature indication.

Anyway, the dealer has the truck back now and is scratching his head about it. Since they still had my 2001 3500 on the lot, they loaned it to us to complete the trip. Guess the dealer intends to talk to GM about it on Monday. The truck seems to miss now for a few seconds when first started and that clears up but the venting of gasses from the coolant reservoir is continuous any time it is running. The Duramax now has about 1000 miles on it.

I am thinking head gasket blown or cracked head. Any ideas from the group.

Bob

I just traded my gas truck in for the 05 duramax. When I looked in the glove box I saw a service sheet where the serice department checked out a low coolant light the day I bought the truck. I assume that when they were installing extra stuff....running boards...etc. the light came on. It has not come on since......600 miles now.

bobc,sorry to hear about your new truck please keep us all informed on what the dealer finds out,hang in there hopefully its something simple.best of luck.

bobc,sorry to hear about your new truck please keep us all informed on what the dealer finds out,hang in there hopefully its something simple.best of luck.

I hope the dealership has something to tell me tomorrow (Monday). None of the group of mechanics that gathered around the truck on Friday, seemed to have any idea on what way to proceed and the service manager said that he wanted to get some input from GM before doing anything since the truck was so new. The sales department certainly did the right thing by taking my old 2001 3500 out of the detail shop and helping me transfer all my tools and equipment out of the new truck to the old truck so I could get my load of trailers home.

Just as an interesting point, this problem let me do something that was very instructive on truck pulling. That is, getting to pull the exact same load with two different trucks on the same day. I would give the slight nod to my old 8.1 on how it handled that particular load. Of course, the Duramax may have not had its full power because of the problem I wrote about. I sort of hope that is the case, because, right now, between these two trucks, I think the 8.1 is the better towing rig than the Duramax and I hope I am wrong about that.

Bob

We've had numerous members trade up from the 8.1 to the Duramax. While they give the 8.1 its due as a reliable, strong engine, IIRC none of them have posted that the 8.1 outpulled the Duramax nor gave them near the mpg's. ;)

Get er fixed, let it break in for a few thousand miles, and enjoy! JJ :)

We had a 2001 3500 dually with the 8.1 and it was great but the 05 duramax does have more power and thinks it should use 5th gear for the hills so the extra torque shows up. chevman

BOBC, hope everything works out well for you. I have a little over 4k miles on the truck right now, but when we made our first trip towing, we had just over 1k. The reason I bring this up is after we stopped at the campsite for the night, the next day I started the truck up and guess what? I had a low coolant light come on. Shut the truck down, checked the coolant, started it back up and never a light again. It did seem a little low, but not too bad. Our trailer weighs around 8k, so nothing too hard for the truck. Let us know what happens with your truck. By the way, how many miles did you have when you made your tow? Jerry.

BOBC, hope everything works out well for you. I have a little over 4k miles on the truck right now, but when we made our first trip towing, we had just over 1k. The reason I bring this up is after we stopped at the campsite for the night, the next day I started the truck up and guess what? I had a low coolant light come on. Shut the truck down, checked the coolant, started it back up and never a light again. It did seem a little low, but not too bad. Our trailer weighs around 8k, so nothing too hard for the truck. Let us know what happens with your truck. By the way, how many miles did you have when you made your tow? Jerry.

Jerry,
The truck had about 800 miles on it when I towed with it the first (and only) time. I purposly kept this first load down to treat the truck better for the first pull. My loads I pull range between 6000 and 10,000 pounds. This load was about 6,500 pounds.

Still don't know any details about what happened. I was at the shop today and they still did not have the head off yet but were working on getting it off. My nice new truck is in a sad state right now. Noticed that the mechanic had messed up a bunch of the radiator fins working around them. Everything under the hood was new and looked new when it went into that shop. Hope it can be back like that again, I will post back more details on what they find and are going to do about it when they tell me.

Bob

You might insist on a replacment truck no matter what.

Just traded my 2001 8.1 Allison 3500 for a new 2005 Duramax/Allison 3500 SRW Crewcab. The 8.1 had been flawless for the time I owned it and was still perfect. Just really wanted to try a Duramax. We use this truck to bring in loads of utility trailers that we sell. The trip to bring in these trailers is about 170 miles. We go up there about once a week empty and pull new trailers back here to sell. The weight of these varies from around 6000 to 10,000 pounds. The 8.1 generally turned in a mileage of around 12 going up empty and around 6 to 8 coming back loaded.

On our first trip using the 2005 Duramax, we got 18 MPG going up and according to the DIC were getting around 10 MPG coming back. Did not get to verify that "loaded mileage" with a fill up because the truck did not make it back. After pulling the load (about 6500 lbs) about 100 miles of the way back, the "low coolant warning" message appeared. We stopped and heard venting of what seems to be combustion gasses from the coolant reservoir. We did not ever have a high temperature indication.

Anyway, the dealer has the truck back now and is scratching his head about it. Since they still had my 2001 3500 on the lot, they loaned it to us to complete the trip. Guess the dealer intends to talk to GM about it on Monday. The truck seems to miss now for a few seconds when first started and that clears up but the venting of gasses from the coolant reservoir is continuous any time it is running. The Duramax now has about 1000 miles on it.

I am thinking head gasket blown or cracked head. Any ideas from the group.

Bob

Any vehicle I have ever owned (42 total) that ever exhibited that symptom always had either a blown head gasket or a cracked head or cylinder wall. Good chance they are going to have to disassemble your engine to truly find out, but somewhere in there they are likely to find a compression source with a path to a water jacket. That miss you describe is probably when the intake stroke pulls in coolant enough to misfire that cylinder.

Stuff happens, make them fix it and insist on a short timetable for it to be done.


The 8.1 is NOT superior to the dmax for towing, you will see that clearly once you get the proper dmax experience.:)

.

You might insist on a replacment truck no matter what.

I TOTALLY AGREE. MAKE THEM GIVE YOU A NEW TRUCK. It pisses me off to no end that theses so called mechanics don't give a SH*T about trucks they are working on because it's not theirs.

I had an '03 6.0 gas motor before my current truck, I had the so called "NORMAL" engine knock, took it in at 900 miles and told them I was not gonna accecpt a truck that knocked, the dealer was very helpful and on my side, a GM rep came down and inspected my truck after they pulled the passenger side head off, he told the dealer to replace the motor with a crate motor, wrist pin on 1 piston was damaged and didn't seat right. I get the truck back and the clear front lic plt cover I had on my truck was cracked, They replaced it, no problem, but that shouldn't have happened.

If I were you, I would not take that truck back, I'd demand a new one!!!

Well, just got off the phone with the service manager. He says that he thinks that the head was not torqued down right at the factory and that allowed coolant to leak into the #2 cylinder. He said he was going to discuss that with GM. I would personally find that harder to believe than a cracked head. Guess, if that were the case, I would wonder about all the other stuff being torqued right also.

Getting another truck would be a good solution for me, but it would be difficult even if the dealer wanted to do it. The SRW 3500 Crewcab that I bought was the only one like it in my state and had to be brought in about 100 miles. Next closest one was about 300 miles away. That was 2 weeks ago when I was looking for one.

Bob

Well, just got off the phone with the service manager. He says that he thinks that the head was not torqued down right at the factory and that allowed coolant to leak into the #2 cylinder. He said he was going to discuss that with GM. I would personally find that harder to believe than a cracked head. Guess, if that were the case, I would wonder about all the other stuff being torqued right also.

Getting another truck would be a good solution for me, but it would be difficult even if the dealer wanted to do it. The SRW 3500 Crewcab that I bought was the only one like it in my state and had to be brought in about 100 miles. Next closest one was about 300 miles away. That was 2 weeks ago when I was looking for one.

Bob

BOBC, I honestly believe you will regret it if you keep this truck. But if you don't want to wait for another like truck and feel confident they're not blowing smoke up your behind, have them fix it and take it back, just remember, it's always gonna be in the back of your mind.. Good Luck

BOBC, I honestly believe you will regret it if you keep this truck. But if you don't want to wait for another like truck and feel confident they're not blowing smoke up your behind, have them fix it and take it back, just remember, it's always gonna be in the back of your mind.. Good Luck

Believe me, this is in the front of my mind right now. I have to work with this truck. Needs to start everytime I turn the key and work as hard as I need it to. My 2001 8.1 3500 certainly did that and is still doing that for me since they loaned it back to me while the new one is in the shop.

Bob

It won't be in the back of your mind long once the truck is right and you see its capabilities. Anything built by man can fail, and every vehicle is repairable.

What happened to you is anything but common, it is a fluke thing, let them fix it and let the dmax prove itself to you after that.

Not suprised with the diagnosis, just the type of scenario I posted on page #1

.

BOBC,

First Post, as I just traded in my Z71, ECSB, 5.3 for a D/A, CCSB, 4X. I was never able to drive my new truck off the lot, b/c of a suprisingly similar incident. Let me know what you think. Apparently, "as the stealer is telling me", there is a recall going out soon on 05 Chevys b/c of a faulty seam in the coolant overfill resevoir. It leaked dextron undetected from the underneath side and shorted out some sort of ECU located in the vicinity. It caused the Truck to **** everytime you brought it up above idle. Maybe the gasses you noticed were dextron that had fried on something and were lingering under the hood......or were they actually in the resevoir? Anyways, it took them a week to figure it out and I am still waiting on the part. Its like Xmas, I cant wait to pick it up, but I am kinda hesitant now too. Let me know what comes of your truck and ill get a better description from my stealer to post on here if it is infact a bigger problem than just mine.

Greyling

BOBC,

First Post, as I just traded in my Z71, ECSB, 5.3 for a D/A, CCSB, 4X. I was never able to drive my new truck off the lot, b/c of a suprisingly similar incident. Let me know what you think. Apparently, "as the stealer is telling me", there is a recall going out soon on 05 Chevys b/c of a faulty seam in the coolant overfill resevoir. It leaked dextron undetected from the underneath side and shorted out some sort of ECU located in the vicinity. It caused the Truck to **** everytime you brought it up above idle. Maybe the gasses you noticed were dextron that had fried on something and were lingering under the hood......or were they actually in the resevoir? Anyways, it took them a week to figure it out and I am still waiting on the part. Its like Xmas, I cant wait to pick it up, but I am kinda hesitant now too. Let me know what comes of your truck and ill get a better description from my stealer to post on here if it is infact a bigger problem than just mine.

Greyling

Greyling,

Mine actually had combustion gasses venting into the reservoir. When they depressurized it and cranked the engine, the service mangager said he could count compression strokes by watching the bubbles. Also the engine would miss for a few seconds when they first started it after the problem and during that time was blowing some white smoke out the tail pipe indicating that coolant leaked into the cylinder.

Bob

One other thing you need to realize is the D/MAX engine does not really come into its own as far as mileage, power, etc until it has about 15K to 20K miles on it. The more mileage on it, the better it gets. On both my trucks, I was ready to give them back for the first 15K miles. Give it time and use.

Personally, I would insist on a new motor! If there is even the possability of coolant leaking into the combustion chamber a new motor is in order. Too many chemicals could have leaked into the internals to not warrent that. And for your lost time I would think that would be the sane thing to do both for GM and the dealer

Bob,

I agree, getting a new truck may be difficult. The 2005 orders ended about a month ago. GM is in the last week or so of the 2005 model run. Delivery of the 2006 models won't happen till the end of August, or September. Finding another unsold 2005 may be difficult right now. The Employee Price sale seems to have reduced the inventory out there.

Depending on what they find, I think I would ask for a swap of the old engine for a new one. I would also insist on extention of the warranty and loyalty credits. Rick Lance went though a similar problem on his 2005 with 7,500 miles. Here is the thread.

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31513

Good luck, I hope this works out to your satisfaction. It is normally a great truck!

My truck had a low oil light on when they did the PDI at the dealership, turns out a the harness to the sensor got crushed on assembly so they had to repair the wiring on it. Other than that 1700 trouble free miles!

Bob,

I agree, getting a new truck may be difficult. The 2005 orders ended about a month ago. GM is in the last week or so of the 2005 model run. Delivery of the 2006 models won't happen till the end of August, or September. Finding another unsold 2005 may be difficult right now. The Employee Price sale seems to have reduced the inventory out there.

Depending on what they find, I think I would ask for a swap of the old engine for a new one. I would also insist on extention of the warranty and loyalty credits. Rick Lance went though a similar problem on his 2005 with 7,500 miles. Here is the thread.

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31513

Good luck, I hope this works out to your satisfaction. It is normally a great truck!

Here is today's update on the truck. The service manager says that GM agrees with his idea that the left head was improperly torqued at the factory. His plan is to retorque the other head and install a new head gasket on the left head (the one that leaked) and put it all back together. Says I may get it back tomorrow late.

I should have a large (10,000 pound) load of 8 trailers to pull on Friday. Guess that would be a good test on the truck if I get it back for that. Have to see how all of this works out.

Bob

Here is today's update on the truck. The service manager says that GM agrees with his idea that the left head was improperly torqued at the factory. His plan is to retorque the other head and install a new head gasket on the left head (the one that leaked) and put it all back together. Says I may get it back tomorrow late.

I should have a large (10,000 pound) load of 8 trailers to pull on Friday. Guess that would be a good test on the truck if I get it back for that. Have to see how all of this works out.

Bob

BOBC, Good Luck, I hope they are right, tell'm to keep your 8.1 in the back lot till you tow that load. Hopefully this will cure it. How about the DAMAGE the mechanic did to your Radiator fins??? Make sure they make good on that too and press GM for an EXTENDED warranty since they caused you this grief.

BOBC, Good Luck, I hope they are right, tell'm to keep your 8.1 in the back lot till you tow that load. Hopefully this will cure it. How about the DAMAGE the mechanic did to your Radiator fins??? Make sure they make good on that too and press GM for an EXTENDED warranty since they caused you this grief.

I brought up the radiator damage to the service mangager. He said "Don't worry about that, We have a radiator comb.

Bob

Just another update on the progress (or lack of progress) with my truck repair. Today, they told me that a couple of the gaskets they need to put the truck back together are back ordered. They think they might get them tomorrow but no way to finish the truck this week. So, tomorrow will be a full week and what I see when I go to the shop is just a huge pile of Duramax parts covering a place on the floor about half as large as the truck covers. Man I hope the floor sweeper is careful as hard as it seems to be to get any parts for that truck. I saw the head off the engine for the first time today. Everyone was at lunch and the cylinders were all full of coolant on the side that was off. I have done a few engines in my time as a hobby type thing. I was always a lot more careful with keeping things clean than these "certified" guys are.

Guess I will have to use my good old reliable 2001 8.1 that they gave me back for a loaner at least one more towing trip.

Bob

I'd take pictures of their "clean" work environment. They'd go in a file with my UOA's of a couple really short oil change intervals.

Sorry about your truck.

For today's update, the service manager actually called me for the first time instead of me having to call him. Might have something to do with the call that I made to the Asst. Sales Manager at the dealership. He wanted to tell me that they have cleaned up the coolant I saw in the cylinders yesterday and have protected the block and parts now from any contamination. He also told me that they have decided to send the head out for machining to get it flatter, and they have decided to put in new valves for the cylinder that had the coolant leak into it.

As of today we are at one week and counting.

Bob

I cant believe that GM is letting them do machine work on the cylinder head. I would have thought that they would send them a new head assembely. I wouldn't want a machine shop messing with it. The tollerances are incredibely tight to begin with. I think you need to call the Service manager back, and call GM customer assistance at 800-222-1020 and start a case. Just doesn't seem right.

I cant believe that GM is letting them do machine work on the cylinder head. I would have thought that they would send them a new head assembely. I wouldn't want a machine shop messing with it. The tollerances are incredibely tight to begin with. I think you need to call the Service manager back, and call GM customer assistance at 800-222-1020 and start a case. Just doesn't seem right.

According to sales at the dealership, they don't do anything to a Duramax internally with specific direction from GM, so this must be what GM is telling them to do. He said the whole thing is even videotaped as they do it. I got the idea from everyone at the dealership that GM has really tightened up on what they spend on repairs. Appearantly, this is the first Duramax engine that this dealership has torn down. Before, they just changed out the engine. I think the guys at the dealership wish they were just changing this one out.

Bob

As I was reading your posts I was thinking it will be OK to get it back repaired. I've changed my mind. First, coolant sitting in the cylinders can damage the bore. Second, resurfacing one head and not the other will throw the engine out of balance, you will have more compression on one bank than the other. I would push for a complete engine, at the very least tell them you're not going to accept anything less than a NEW head.


I had the same problems with a new Pontiac about 20 years ago. First head gasket at 6K miles, second at 11K miles, Third at 21K miles.........then I sold the POS, I was a kid and ate my loses. Unless they really care they are not going to do any more than you make them.

Good luck!

As I was reading your posts I was thinking it will be OK to get it back repaired. I've changed my mind. First, coolant sitting in the cylinders can damage the bore. Second, resurfacing one head and not the other will throw the engine out of balance, you will have more compression on one bank than the other. I would push for a complete engine, at the very least tell them you're not going to accept anything less than a NEW head.


I had the same problems with a new Pontiac about 20 years ago. First head gasket at 6K miles, second at 11K miles, Third at 21K miles.........then I sold the POS, I was a kid and ate my loses. Unless they really care they are not going to do any more than you make them.

Good luck!

I am trying to maintain my "cool" over this whole mess. The "we are just following GM's orders" line is getting a bit old. May be true, but getting old anyway. I have known the salesman that sold me the truck for 15 years and he is as honest and trustworthy as they get. I think he feels terrible about this mess and would do anything possible to get it resolved. It is costing the dealership money to accomodate me as well as they have by giving me back my 2001 3500 so I would have something to use to tow heavy loads with. It was being detailed for a potential buyer that had been waiting for one of those to come in when they gave it back to me. GM will reimburse the dealership some amount for that loaner, but not enough to make up for possibly missing that sale.

Perhaps I have been lucky in the past. I have not in the last 30 years ever had a problem with a vehicle that was under warranty that caused me to have to leave it even over night. During that time period, I guess I had at least 20 new vehicles.

Bob

I've been following your sad story for awhile now too. Frankly you are a very nice customer (and I bet your friends would only have good things to say about you too). I understand you use your trucks very regularly, so you probably go through them pretty fast (relative to others of us that use them hard more occasionally). For me, it's a pretty darn big investment, that I'm going to live with for awile. I would be "barking" up the chain of command with GM and (for me anyway) would not be satisfied without a completely new truck.

Out in Kalifornia, this is what we have a lemon law for, to protect us from a lemon such as what it appears you've got. Are there any such laws where you are? It would just bother me to no end to get my "brand new" truck back after being "repaired" and wondering what next would go wrong (like maybe they forgot to torque the bearing caps too??). Anyway, I feel for you man...

Good luck with whichever way this goes, and don't be too nice -- it is afterall, your hard earned $$s...

I've been following your sad story for awhile now too. Frankly you are a very nice customer (and I bet your friends would only have good things to say about you too). I understand you use your trucks very regularly, so you probably go through them pretty fast (relative to others of us that use them hard more occasionally). For me, it's a pretty darn big investment, that I'm going to live with for awile. I would be "barking" up the chain of command with GM and (for me anyway) would not be satisfied without a completely new truck.

Out in Kalifornia, this is what we have a lemon law for, to protect us from a lemon such as what it appears you've got. Are there any such laws where you are? It would just bother me to no end to get my "brand new" truck back after being "repaired" and wondering what next would go wrong (like maybe they forgot to torque the bearing caps too??). Anyway, I feel for you man...

Good luck with whichever way this goes, and don't be too nice -- it is afterall, your hard earned $$s...

Yes, we have the "Lemon Law" here also. I believe they are all about the same. Thing is that it is pretty hard and takes a long time to meet all the requirements for the Lemon Law to take over. Probably the best effect of the law is that something is usually worked out between the customer and the dealer before the Lemon Law would take effect. It is always there in the background to hurry things along somewhat. I think most of those things read something like "4 times in for the same problem in a certain amount of time or 30 days out of service in a certain amount of time". I would think that the dealer would come to an agreement with the customer before that all happens because if the dealer has to take the truck back because of the Lemon Law, he has to tell that to the next buyer of the truck. Buy back seems to be a term that the dealers don't like to hear. The words for that situation seems the be "Assisted Re-purchase".

Some of you think I am taking this too calmly. The fact that they gave me back the almost perfect truck to replace the one in the shop had an initial calming effect. Really no impact to my business so far.

My thoughts on this go more along the lines of "Why was it again that I wanted to trade my perfect 2001 8.1 liter truck for a diesel?". Fuel mileage I guess. Sure doesn't use much fuel sitting in the shop.

Bob

I don't remember if you covered this before, but are you making the payment on the new truck, old truck or both? I'd like to think it'd be no more than what the old one was costing you...


Yeah, I think ours is like 30 days out here too. So if they keep it another two weeks, will yours qualify?

I read in another thread on this forum where the customer got a "customer loyalty" or "customer satisfaction" (can't remember the terminology exactly) check plus I think an extended warrantee, for agreeing to keep the truck after they had to do a bunch of work on his. Maybe at least if you do get it repaired and decide to keep it you can get some compensation in the same form (extended warrantee and some moolah). I think it was in the hugely long overheating thread if you want to search for it...

Again, good luck with this...

I don't remember if you covered this before, but are you making the payment on the new truck, old truck or both? I'd like to think it'd be no more than what the old one was costing you...


Yeah, I think ours is like 30 days out here too. So if they keep it another two weeks, will yours qualify?

I read in another thread on this forum where the customer got a "customer loyalty" or "customer satisfaction" (can't remember the terminology exactly) check plus I think an extended warrantee, for agreeing to keep the truck after they had to do a bunch of work on his. Maybe at least if you do get it repaired and decide to keep it you can get some compensation in the same form (extended warrantee and some moolah). I think it was in the hugely long overheating thread if you want to search for it...

Again, good luck with this...

As far as the dealership is concerned, I paid cash. Actually I got a business loan from the bank. It has yearly payments on it so I don't pay anything for a year. I read the thread you mentioned and it did give me some ideas. I talked to the sales department about those things yesterday. My truck will be down for 10 days on Monday. I told the sales department that if I get the truck back and it is perfect sometime next week that I still think I am owed some payment assistance, an extended warranty and a "large" chunk of loyalty cash toward the next purchase. I didn't define large, but I have gotten some of those just in the mail without doing anything to get them.

Bob

I was at the dealership picking up the wifes new Denali today and had a discussion that I hope can help here. Sorry in advance for the long post. :cool: We have a Pontiac sedan that has two full pages of warranty work on it in a year. If I spend anymore time at the dealership they will have to add me to their workers comp. :eek: I was worried about having to lemon law this car because I saw what a good friend had to go thru to get his Stroke Excursion returned. My dealership agrees this car is crap and got the GM rep involved. He was unsure he could sell a repurchase to his boss so I was advised of a better way. I am not sure how this works in other states but in California we have the BBB (Better Business Bureau). I was advised to start a complaint with them on the car and that this in turn gives GM 40 days to resolve the issue. This elevates my tag to the top of GM's list and the rep that has already seen my history will be asked for his thoughts. If they repurchase the car I will get all my monthly payments as well as the down payment back just as if I used the lemon law. The difference is it's much faster and no atorneys. I was BS'ing with a couple managers today and was told that if I just stay after them with daily calls that they are sure the repurchase will get done. They also said they have seen cars with much fewer problems than mine repurchased. The best part of this deal is if we can get this done next week I will buy my second vehicle on the GMS pricing deal. I will start another thread for your opinions of what I want to get. In the meantime I hope this long winded post helps someone and that the BOBC gets many happy miles out of his truck. Good luck.

OK, Just talked to the service department again this morning. Decision has now been made to replace the head. Of course, the nearest one is in California and will be making the 2000 mile trip to Arkansas by truck. We are at 10 days now for the truck being in the shop and seemingly no possibility of it getting fixed this week. Sort of a depressing situation.

Bob

Sorry to hear that. The diesel engines are in such demand that parts are hard to come by. The SRW 3500 series are becoming more popular because several states have laws that say a driver must have a log book operating any vehicle over 10,000 GVW. My dually is 11,400 GVW. I got a $579 ticket in PA for just that. There are a couple crew cab SRW 3500s at a Chevy dealer in Davison MI. That wont do you any good, because it sounds as though they are going to patch yours up. $7900 for Duramax/Allison option, and it didnt get to 1000 miles. GM wonders why they are losing market share.

Well, I have decided that it is time to get GM involved in this. Started a case with Customer Assistance today. The guy I talked to seems to think a another truck might be the way to proceed on this. Of course he may be trained to sound very cooperative when dealing with a customer. I have started compiling a list of acceptable trucks. Most are around 300 miles from here. I am expecting a call from Customer Assistance today to let me know what I can expect them to do.

Bob

threads like this scare me.................BOBC I think you have done the right thing all along, but I also think that you deserve a new truck or just give me back my old one, and ill go my own way andy ou guys take you truck and do your own thing.

Fair is fair!

BOBC.... The time has come for drastic action.....

Brand New trucks should never be out of service for weeks at a time, that is a damn joke. Now they say they will replace the head, but what about the ****ty work space and your entire engine broken down laying around on the ground, what kind of "customer care" is that!

You not only need a new truck at this point, you more than deserve it!

Another thing that concerns me is that if this whole issue is drawn out much longer the employee discount pricing deal could expire and bring on additional issues with aquiring a new truck. The 05' employee priced vehicles are running low quick it seems.

I feel terrible for your situation as I am a new owner myself, I can only think what a crappy time I would have trying to deal with this on my new Duramax.

Sorry about the :rant: , this kind of crap just pisses me off though.

Good luck with the rest of it man, I hope you get hooked up!

BOBC,
i also have to chime in and send my symp's to you. i am a first time diesel truck buyer and love my new toy, so far it has been good to me, 2900mi in 2 wks, and no problems yet, knock on wood. but i do hope that it works out for you. i know that while trying to put my deal together, it took them so long, that i actually FELL into a better price with the GMS discount with another dealer. so i came out better in the end. it just took only 2 months to find my exact truck though. so start the massive search by option codes and look 500+ miles if need be....

BOBC: I'm glad to see you are starting to pursue the new truck route. Maybe if you just happen to not find an acceptable truck in the '05s, they'll get you an '06?? With the mods they've made (engine and trans cooling esp.), and since it shouldn't cost you a dime, that could be a way to make you really happy! :D :D

Again, good luck...

Today's Update: Well yesterday, the service manager called me after being contacted by GM Customer Assistance. He assured me that he was a "Master ASE Certified Service Manager" and that my truck would be perfect when his shop got through with it. He also indicated he had managed to expedite shipping on the new head and that now it should be in the shop on Thursday and my truck should be ready on Friday. He said I should have no concern about finding the coolant left in the cylinders because "Dex-Cool does not attack metals". I think he sort of took it as an insult that I had experssed my doubts about that truck ever being completely right again to GM Customer Assistance. My son talked to a person in management at another dealership about the engine problem we were having and that person expressed surprise that the shop was even allowed to go into the Duramax without a GM tech present. Said that GM had always sent a tech when they had a Duramax problem.

GM Customer Assistance has not called me back like I was told they would do. I have located another truck that would work for me at a dealer about 200 miles from here. I called my salesman and told him where the truck is located. He said "I will see what I can do". He is sort of motivated to do something. All his profit and more on this deal is tied up in my trade-in 2001 8.1 3500 that they had to loan back to me. Put another 350 miles of hard towing on that one today. Performed perfectly as always in the 100 degree temps we had here today.

Today makes 11 days with the new truck out of service.

Bob

Yet another update on this continuing "broke truck" saga.

Today's best story is that the new head that was to come from California has now been cancelled. The only reason it was comming from California is that it was somehow cheaper from there. Parts department had balked at getting a head from Tennessee, (neighboring state) because it was somehow going to cost them more and that they would not be reimbursed for the difference. When the sales department found out about that, they made parts get the head from the closer place. It got here overnight.

By this point, all that is just sort of interesting but really unimportant details to me. Interesting, because perhaps if someone really wants Duramax parts to fix an engine, a bit of extra expense or effort might come up with those parts very quickly.

I have lined up on my side now trying to convince GM to replace the truck the following people.

1. Sales Manager at the Dealership.
2. Service Manager at the Dealership.
3. Area Sales Manager for Chevrolet.
4. GM Customer Assistance.

I am not sure who else has to be convinced, but the above list is appearantly not enough. Just talked to Customer Assistance a few minutes ago and all I could get out of him was a promise of another call by Friday, April 1.

I think, eventually I may be offered a choice of a couple of things. Just reading between the lines of his telephone conversation, I think they may offer me a significant package of money and warranties or a new truck if one can be found. That is getting harder every day, finding another truck, that is. The nearest one to me sold yesterday. Next ones are much further away.

Bob

Take them for all they are worth Bob. If you don't score the new ride, then an extended warranty and some cash incentives would be pretty sweet.... maybe some extra gm accessories or something also.

Keep fightin it Bob, good luck man.

BOBC...... I think it sucks that you have had this much drama but I have to ask....

WHY WERE YOU TOWING 10,000 Lbs. with a truck that had less than 1,000 mi.?????????

I understand that the head could have failed if it wasn't properly torqued at anytime..

But towing on a virgin motor doesn't seem right to me, and seems more like operator error!

Either way, these GM/Dealership Drag-A$$ stories are getting old!!!!

WILL

BOBC, I honestly believe you will regret it if you keep this truck. But if you don't want to wait for another like truck and feel confident they're not blowing smoke up your behind, have them fix it and take it back, just remember, it's always gonna be in the back of your mind.. Good Luck

I would like to know why there are some of us who scream MAKE THEM REPLACE IT every time something happens to thier truck. I agree totally with TxChristopher. There is almost nothing which cannot be repaired on these trucks so that you would never know anything was ever wrong, and never have trouble again.

ANY mass produced product can have defects due to wear and tear on all of the equipment used to make each componet which makes up the product. There is also human error, and we are ALL human, even G.M., although it seems we talk about the corporation as a entity, it is composed of fallable humans just like you and me.....maybe even your neighbor.

Now I am not saying that there is not a reason to have a vheicle replaced, but I do not think that is the first thought that rolls out of our minds should be. Although as you read the full post here, I think this may be one of those which should difinatly have a new motor at the very least. I would shure hate to have to replace mine though, I had to special order the one I got to get everything I wanted on the truck.

thewad1, I am not singleing you out specifically, it was just your post which I chose to make my comments on, do not take it personally. It is not my intention to say any of those who make these comments are bad people, just that I disagree with the comments in general.

BOBC......I am sure given some time your truck will be back better than new (at least in your case;) ) and you will find that your old 8.1 has nothing over the D-Max.

John

I for one am glad that Bobc is sharing this with us. :exactly:

Bigwill,

All of the recommendations I have seen say towing after 500 miles on the engine is fine. I don't think that towing with only 1,000 miles on the engine is unreasonable and is twice what is recommended.

BOBC,

Been reading this thread and like others have said, "you're too nice a guy"!!

I would be Censored at this point in time.

If you can't find another like you really want, get your old truck and money back and order a 2006 model. And if you really want to take back the "fixed" truck, then you should NOT get anything less than an extended warranty and some some cash back on this whole mess!! :exactly: Good Luck and keep us posted of the final result.

BOBC...... I think it sucks that you have had this much drama but I have to ask....

WHY WERE YOU TOWING 10,000 Lbs. with a truck that had less than 1,000 mi.?????????

I understand that the head could have failed if it wasn't properly torqued at anytime..

But towing on a virgin motor doesn't seem right to me, and seems more like operator error!

Either way, these GM/Dealership Drag-A$$ stories are getting old!!!!

WILL

Some things sort of get lost in a long thread like this one is turning into. If you go back to the initial post, you will see that I did not tow with the truck until it had about 800 miles on it and I purposely kept that load down to around 6500 pounds for the first time towing. Normal load will be closer to 10,000 pounds. In any case, if, as GM is saying, the head was not torqued down properly at the factory, I would agree that there was an "operator error" but not my error.

Bob

Bob I told you to just try the 300 horse shot of nitrous but nooooooo you had to go right to the 500. All on top of the propane and the 240 horse xcellerator.

Really though, I was for repair until they started in with the machine work needed idea. From that point they should have just said "hey, this isn't the new owner experience we want for our customers" and got you a new truck. Anything else from that point on is just f'ing the dog.

.

CBRJohn, I agree that anything can and sometimes will happen AND that it can be repaired. However, when BOBC posted the conditions his engine was left in that's when I changed my mind about replacing the truck. Coolant left in the cylinder is one thing I have a problem with, it makes me wonder if precautions were made to insure no debris entered the engine while it's tore down. The head is another issue, I wouldn't want one head that was resurfaced and one not. That bank would have more compression than the other. Now since they are going to replace the head with a NEW one I would feel better about taking the truck after repairs, but not without some extra FREE warranty. Just because it CAN be repaired as good as new doesn't mean it will.

BOBC, here's an option if they are willing to buy back your truck but a replacement can't be found. Keep the truck you traded in until you can order the exact '06 you want and get them to honor the employee discounts.

I am supposed to get some sort of answer or offer from Customer Assistance tomorrow. The guy that is handling my case did at least call me today and promise a call back tomorrow with some sort of resolution. The service manager called me yesterday with a promise of the truck being back together and road tested before end of the day today and that he would call me to come in and check out the work. It is almost 7:00 at night now and he hasn't called so I expect he has missed that estimate.

Could be that Customer Assistance has also been waiting (and trying to stall me off) until there is a running truck to bargain with. Who knows? I was hoping they would get it running also because I would like to hear their offer of what they would do to get me to keep the truck. There is an amount of money and warranties and other perks that could make me do that, but it would have to be generous.

A lot of you have suggested trying for an '06 Duramax with all the added goodies it is rumored to have for engine and transmission. I am not sure how I would react to being offered that option. I am not really an early adopter of new engines and transmissions. I waited till close to the end of the model year in 2001 watching for reports on the then new Duramax and the 8.1 liter gas engines and Allison and went with the 8.1 gas engine based on reliability reports at that time. I think I chose right that time. I think this time also, I would want to see how the new '06 Duramax does in service for 6 months or so before I would want that one. This does not mean that I don't think GM will get the new Duramax perfect the first time. It is certainly possible that they will. Past history reports on new engines suggest that there is at least a chance that there will be some problems at first if the changes are great.

For instance, a customer of mine was here a while back with a Ford diesel. He said that he was a die hard Ford guy and needed a new truck when the Ford 6 liter came out. He watched reports on that one for a few months and started a search for a left over 7.3. He has been very happy with that choice and says he still would not trade for a 6 liter but is sure Ford will have it worked out by the time he needs to trade the 7.3 he has now.

Bob

Not to be a pain in the @$$ BOBC but I think your Diesel was built in either a Monday morn' or a Friday afternoon. The guys down in Moriane, Ohio were either tired Monday, or ready for the weekend on Friday afternoon. (Bar - You know what I mean!!).:lol: :badidea: Sorry if I hit a sore spot with this posting or to throw salt into the wound, but that engine should have not been allowed to leave the plant without a thorough Quality Inspection. Hopefully that was the only issue that your going to have with your Duramax.

Duramax has a great reputation, Ford and Dodge guys are jealous, they can only dream of having that type of power...

I would like to know why there are some of us who scream MAKE THEM REPLACE IT every time something happens to thier truck. I agree totally with TxChristopher. There is almost nothing which cannot be repaired on these trucks so that you would never know anything was ever wrong, and never have trouble again.

ANY mass produced product can have defects due to wear and tear on all of the equipment used to make each componet which makes up the product. There is also human error, and we are ALL human, even G.M., although it seems we talk about the corporation as a entity, it is composed of fallable humans just like you and me.....maybe even your neighbor.

Now I am not saying that there is not a reason to have a vheicle replaced, but I do not think that is the first thought that rolls out of our minds should be. Although as you read the full post here, I think this may be one of those which should difinatly have a new motor at the very least. I would shure hate to have to replace mine though, I had to special order the one I got to get everything I wanted on the truck.

thewad1, I am not singleing you out specifically, it was just your post which I chose to make my comments on, do not take it personally. It is not my intention to say any of those who make these comments are bad people, just that I disagree with the comments in general.

BOBC......I am sure given some time your truck will be back better than new (at least in your case;) ) and you will find that your old 8.1 has nothing over the D-Max.

John

CBRJOHN,
I'm not taking your thoughts personal, however, BOBC, nor anyone else purchasing a NEW vehicle needs to go through this nonsense! BOBC should have contacted GM and started a case on this prior to them taking apart his NEW motor. A GM rep would have been assigned the case and would have been at the dealer when the motor was taken apart. I am speaking from experience, I had a 2003 6.0 liter gas motor that had the so called "NORMAL ENGINE KNOCK", or piston slap, the knock was getting louder and at 1000 miles I took it to my dealer, the mechanic said the KNOCK was louder than NORMAL and had to get a GM tech out to listen to it. GM tech came out and authorized the dealer mechanic to take the passenger side head off, I was there when the head came off, I was told they could FIX the piston slap.

I came home from the dealer and called GM customer support and told them I was not happy or comfortable with them fixing the truck after they took the head off, after 3 days, I got a call from the dealer saying it was a Wrist Pin on the piston that didn't seat right after assembly and they would tear the motor down to repair it. I called my case rep at GM and told them what I was told by the dealer, I told the rep I was not going to take the truck back after they tore it down and repaired it. 2 days later I got an e-mail for my case rep, followed by a phone call, that they were going to replace the motor with a NEW crate motor. My service manager called me and told me GM was sending a NEW crate motor to replace the defected motor, I was at the dealer when the NEW motor arrived and when they installed it. I had a great dealer to work with, the salesman and service manager were very supportive and the mechanic was top notch!

What I'm getting at here is BOBC should have contacted GM support as soon as this problem came on and not have waited 10 days to get them involved. WE as consumers deserve better treatment than this! If 1 barks loud enough, things get done, Like I said in my previous posts, this motor will not be the same as when it came out of the factory and BOBC deserves either a NEW REPLACEMENT MOTOR or a NEW TRUCK!!

The dealer is pacifying (sp) the problem with wanting to replace the clyinder head, there will be more problems in the miles to come if they fix this motor.

New Duramax still in the shop. This makes 2 weeks today, 14 days.

Pretty bad day here so far today concerning the truck. Never thought this thing might run me away from GM until today.

First of all the new head came in yesterday but was missing two valves. How is that possible?

Got the promised call from the Customer Assistance Case guy today. He started out the conversation by telling me my claim was denied and that the failed brake linings were considered "normal wear and tear". I said "What the heck are you talking about? I am waiting for an answer on my Duramax Diesel problem." He said "Oh, I picked up the wrong file. Your answer is that we are not going to replace the truck but are going to give you 24 months or 24,000 miles of free recommended service on your vehicle." That made me mad for he first time during this ordeal and I think I am done talking with that idiot. New truck in the shop for 14 days so far and still in the shop and GM thinks the trouble may be worth 3 free oil changes. I said "That is unacceptable and insulting." He said "Well, that is the offer."

Who knows? Maybe he still had the wrong file.

Bob

BOBC: Keep fighting! If they keep screwing around, you will have Lemon Law on your side...

On your comments on the '06 Dmax -- I think you may be thinking about the '07 which will have numerous changes. The '06 has, what I'd consider, minor improvements that are pretty straight forward solutions to help the cooling, some of which people on this site are doing to their own '04.5s + trucks (bigger tranny cooler for example). I would jump on an '06 in an instant if it was offered, as my trans runs hot even just riding around totally empty!

CBRJOHN: I'm not taking your comments personally either. You have your opinion and I have mine. I would feel different about BOBC's situation had he been farther into the service life of the truck and had a problem, but an infant mortality case such as this one IMHO would have me not trusting my truck and feeling "taken" for the $40K - $50K investment. Other stuff was happening in that shop that just would tick off an owner of a brand new truck (at least it would me).

BOBC: Keep fighting! If they keep screwing around, you will have Lemon Law on your side...

On your comments on the '06 Dmax -- I think you may be thinking about the '07 which will have numerous changes. The '06 has, what I'd consider, minor improvements that are pretty straight forward solutions to help the cooling, some of which people on this site are doing to their own '04.5s + trucks (bigger tranny cooler for example). I would jump on an '06 in an instant if it was offered, as my trans runs hot even just riding around totally empty!

CBRJOHN: I'm not taking your comments personally either. You have your opinion and I have mine. I would feel different about BOBC's situation had he been farther into the service life of the truck and had a problem, but an infant mortality case such as this one IMHO would have me not trusting my truck and feeling "taken" for the $40K - $50K investment. Other stuff was happening in that shop that just would tick off an owner of a brand new truck (at least it would me).
CBRJOHN: I'm not taking your comments personally either. You have your opinion and I have mine. I would feel different about BOBC's situation had he been farther into the service life of the truck and had a problem, but an infant mortality case such as this one IMHO would have me not trusting my truck and feeling "taken" for the $40K - $50K investment. Other stuff was happening in that shop that just would tick off an owner of a brand new truck (at least it would me)

Well Said!!!!

I think CBRJOHN doesn't mind spending $40k - $50k on a vehicle, having it for less than a week and then take it in to have the engine rebuilt, I surely don't know too many people that would put up with this and the unacceptable way BOBC is being treated by the GM case person!

BOBC, you need to tell that GM case MORON to take his 24 month warranty and shove it where the sun don't shine!!! What a bunch of "BULL$***"!!!

He BOBC, I've got another idea, maybe CBRJOHN will trade trucks with you.....

BOBC: Keep fighting! If they keep screwing around, you will have Lemon Law on your side...

On your comments on the '06 Dmax -- I think you may be thinking about the '07 which will have numerous changes. The '06 has, what I'd consider, minor improvements that are pretty straight forward solutions to help the cooling, some of which people on this site are doing to their own '04.5s + trucks (bigger tranny cooler for example). I would jump on an '06 in an instant if it was offered, as my trans runs hot even just riding around totally empty!

CBRJOHN: I'm not taking your comments personally either. You have your opinion and I have mine. I would feel different about BOBC's situation had he been farther into the service life of the truck and had a problem, but an infant mortality case such as this one IMHO would have me not trusting my truck and feeling "taken" for the $40K - $50K investment. Other stuff was happening in that shop that just would tick off an owner of a brand new truck (at least it would me).


I would like to make something clear here. I think the dealership is totally on my side. I have heard the package that the Service Manager and Sales Manager has recommended for GM to offer me and it was:

1. New truck, or:

2. If I keep the truck, A warranty package worth around $3200.00 (72 month 100,000 bumper to bumper) plus payment assistance for the time truck is down and perhaps some loyalty cash.

One more interesting offer was from the Assistant Sales Manager. If I take the truck back and it ever breaks down, he will personally come to me with a truck that can finish delivering my load. Don't know if I can get that one in writing.

Bob

Its true that everything can be fixed without replacing the entire vehicle, but you have to draw the line when the fix isn't correct. In racing, when the heads are milled you also machine the surfaces of the intake to account for the change in position of the heads. Never do you mill one head. I believe they should repair the truck, correctly, but if they are unable or unwilling then sure hold out for a new one.

There does seem to be a mentality around here that the entire truck should be replaced at the first sign of major repair, and I find that to be very unreasonable.

If I were GM I wouldn't care if customers with that kind of attitude went to another brand. Better to let them ride another company into the ground than your own, which is what they collectively would do.

.

Yesterday went by without that call from the Service Manager telling me to come ride with him in the truck. He had indicated at about noon that it would be running by end of the day yesterday (Friday) and no one involved with it was going home until it was right. Guess something adjusted his attitude as the end of the day before the long holiday weekend approached. I suppose that now, it will be at least Tuesday before anyone is even in the shop with the truck again. By then the truck will have been out of service for 18 days.

Bob

Now I am not saying that there is not a reason to have a vheicle replaced, but I do not think that is the first thought that rolls out of our minds should be. Although as you read the full post here, I think this may be one of those which should difinatly have a new motor at the very least. I would shure hate to have to replace mine though, I had to special order the one I got to get everything I wanted on the truck.

Well, it's a first for me anyway, but I have to quote meself here. I still Stand to my guns that there is a growing concesus on this site that if you have any problems with your truck, that you should push for a replacement. There is a time for that for sure, and there is no question that BOBC should at the very least get a new motor out of it, but does his problems mean that the entire truck is going to fall apart a week after he gets it back?

Yes, I do value the cost of these trucks, it took me over 5 years to make everything work so that I could get mine. I do not bellieve that GM could ever just replace mine without doing another special order. I special ordered mine...waited two months while it was being built...and would wait another two months if that is what it took for repairs like this to be done RIGHT. But of they were to be done right, I believe that the truck would be acceptable to me. I hope that I never find out just like I hope noone here ever has to find out.

I am with TxChristopher, if you have the kind of attitude that GM should replace your truck at the first sign of a major warrantee repair, then maybe GM should just let you go to the compettition and let you run them out of business.

Have you ever stoped to concider that maybe GM's financial issued are due to the fact that they are willing to give more to thier customers than they need to.....

They told me this morning my truck was running and I should be able to road test it myself by noon. I was there at noon and was told it failed their roadtest. All they would tell me is that something is "not quite right".

18 days in the shop now.

Bob

Stop playing their game and get an attorney!

It has been a few more hours now and I did get a call from the dealership. The truck failed the roadtest because of "lack of power climbing hills". Now they think it has some some bad injectors.

Bob

It has been a few more hours now and I did get a call from the dealership. The truck failed the roadtest because of "lack of power climbing hills". Now they think it has some some bad injectors.

Bob

I second the above thread.. GET AN ATTORNEY, they're taking advantage of your kindness!!!!!! Nice dealer or nice salesman and friend, it's a bunch of HOGWASH!!!!

The NICE dealer ought to step in and give you a NEW truck and when they stop ****'n with the one in the shop, they can sell that one....

BOBC, enough is enough, mark my words, that truck will NEVER be like new...

more likely lack of compression due to cylinder walls being washed with coolant, possible though, hydro lock could have damaged an injector, bob I havent read this entire post but read a few. sue me. Dexcool is not going to attack metals nor is ethylene glycol. not gonna happen. What will happen is dexcool in the crankcase or more importantly washing the lubricant off the cylinder walls, bearings, oil pump or anything else. I would insist on a new engine, not a new truck. That virgin motor has been compromised. If it were mine and they didnt put a new motor in it I would go home drain the oil out of it and run it till it siezed put the oil back in and use my warranty. I really hope you dont have to even ponder it. my point is try and get an engine. and happy hunting

I second the above thread.. GET AN ATTORNEY, they're taking advantage of your kindness!!!!!! Nice dealer or nice salesman and friend, it's a bunch of HOGWASH!!!!

The NICE dealer ought to step in and give you a NEW truck and when they stop ****'n with the one in the shop, they can sell that one....

BOBC, enough is enough, mark my words, that truck will NEVER be like new...

I guess you (and lots of others) just see this a bit differently than I do. I happen to think I have got them right where it hurts the worst and each day that goes by without this truck getting fixed puts me in a better position. Remember that they loaned me back my excellent 2001 8.1 3500 and I am using the heck out of it on their money. It is getting the miles and pulling the loads and it is their truck. I have barely even been inconvenienced by this mess so far and have found it to be extremely interesting. I don't think that GM is going to back down on their decision not to replace the truck at least until the "Magic" 30 day (Lemon Law) point gets a bit closer. Could be approaching that point though unless the truck is fixed in the next couple of days. Letting this thing go all the way to 30 days would be really stupid of GM. Then they have to buy the truck back and they have to let any future buyer know that it is a "Lemon". So says my Lemon Law booklet the dealer gave me with the truck.

Bob

more likely lack of compression due to cylinder walls being washed with coolant, possible though, hydro lock could have damaged an injector, bob I havent read this entire post but read a few. sue me. Dexcool is not going to attack metals nor is ethylene glycol. not gonna happen. What will happen is dexcool in the crankcase or more importantly washing the lubricant off the cylinder walls, bearings, oil pump or anything else. I would insist on a new engine, not a new truck. That virgin motor has been compromised. If it were mine and they didnt put a new motor in it I would go home drain the oil out of it and run it till it siezed put the oil back in and use my warranty. I really hope you dont have to even ponder it. my point is try and get an engine. and happy hunting

travisc,
A few of us have suggested that to BOBC to get a New motor, but the dealer and GM kept giving him false hopes and deadlines that weren't met and it's gotten to the piont the dealer has taken advantage of his kindness. I am frustrated for BOBC, he should have not gone through this nonsense, I also have agreed with the NEW motor solution from the get go, however I suggested the dealer give him a NEW truck and they can sell the one in the shop after they get it driveable, BOBC said he's bought several vehicles from this dealer and his salesman, I'm sure the dealer can make him happy since GM won't step up to do so.

I dont know how much coolant those trucks hold but I bet its more than four gallons.
it either went into the crankcase through the combustion chamber or out the side of the motor. Out the side of the motor being the best thing given the other two options. Nope new engine or attorney.

Hi .. Bob ..

Didja get my Diaphram out today ..??/

i'd say at this point, when they call, and tell you the truck is ready ..

i'd let it sit there a week, or two ...

at this point the longer they have it .. the better ..!:ro)

In this case the dealer is not the issue. You need an attorney to represent against GM. I have first hand knowledge of how GM speeds things up when the lawyers start talking. I would suggest you either order a new truck, which you do not have to accept from the dealer, or find a new truck that is acceptable prior to your settlement, especially with the rate of sales GM is experiencing right now. You may find yourself with the opportunity to receive a new truck and there may not be a truck to your liking.

It's really nice that the dealer has gone above and beyond the call to allow you to use your trade, it shows they value your business, but GM could care a less. Trust me the customer service people just read from a script and are trained to stall you out until you can't take it anymore. You are right, the GM lawyers do not want this truck to be branded a "lemon", but that does not mean they won't start to negotiate with you for a replacement prior to the magical 30 day mark. Not to mention that GM in California pays for your lawyer, you should not have to give the attorney anything other than your paperwork. My attorney made $2,400 in addition to my settlement. Get tough with GM, no matter how much the dealer tries, your truck will never be the same!

There is almost nothing which cannot be repaired on these trucks so that you would never know anything was ever wrong, and never have trouble again.


John


I don't agree....

http://www.getdieselpower.com/my01dmax_files/Isabel/images/DSCN3938.jpg

I don't agree....

http://www.getdieselpower.com/my01dmax_files/Isabel/images/DSCN3938.jpg

Ouch dude.... Ya better go get your attorney top sue that tree for hitting yout truck, make it give you a new one!! :eek:

All joking aside here, Sorry for your damage, but I still stand to my statement....again.....There is ALOMST NOTHING that if repaired correctly would ever bee noticed, and be as good as new. Even your truck, as long as no frame or cab damage has been done, can be repaired as good as new.

The bad new is no insurance company will ever repair them right without a fight.......Kinda like the manufacturer Huh!!!

Good lock on getting your ride repaired and I pitty the dude operating the chain saw that day!!!;)


John :o:

The thing I'm a bit tired of, is the inference that if I were to ask for a new truck because IT'S A LEMON, that I'm somehow responsible for GM's financial troubles. Sorry you GM badge huggers, the only one that cares about MY money is me. You might just want to put yourself in BOBC's shoes for a minute: brand NEW truck, not one that has some miles on it, it is brand spankin' new, and frankly, if it were me, and GM didn't want to make me as their customer happy? I'd be more than happy to sue them for MY money back and take a walk down the street. They deserve to go out of business if my sale does that to them...

And, I'd say that as well, if it were a Dodge, or a Ford, or Toyota or whatever. Since you guys are independently wealthy (aparently), you can afford to worry about their bottom line over yours -- I myself don't have those sort of resources, so I say: If it looks like a LEMON and smells like a LEMON and feels like LEMON, then, shucks: it probably is a LEMON. and that's why we have LEMON laws, to protect us from those that know better and would still try to tell us just "to make LEMONade"...

YMMV (in fact I'm sure it will)
(by the way, I haven't just bought a GM truck, I own GM stock and GM bonds, so I DO care about GM).

Update for day 19 of the truck in shop saga.

They told me this morning just before noon that the truck was ready for me to test drive. Said they had already put it though its paces and it was fine. I found that the odometer did have about 100 more miles on it more than when I brought it is so I thought there was a good chance that they did check it out pretty good.

OK, I took off down the interstate and found that it had to downshift from 5th to 4th for some moderate hills. I know that it did not have to do that before on the same hills, so something seems amiss. I then went to a hill I knew about and tried to accelerate from about 30 and 1600 rpm up the hill. It fell on its face untll it downshifted and got up to around 2300. I took it back and told the service manager that I did not think the boost was coming in early enough. They took it out with the "Tech II" connected and verified a "Low Turbocharger Boost" condition.

Back in the shop for that now.

Bob

BOBC start pushing hard for a new truck!!!

Update for day 20.

It is running!! And running pretty good actually. They said that yesterday the turbo boost problem was a small leak at the turbo outlet and that they had done an alignment of the turbo variable vanes. I don't know if that was something physical or a program in the computer.

Anyway, they asked me to take it back for the weekend and talk to them on Monday about how it works. Suggested that I do some pulling. I guess I should look for some mountains to try to move to see if I can find a weakness in it. They are supposed to be working on some more goodies to offer me in addition to the 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty they have already given me.

They did also replace the radiator that they dinged up taking the head off.

Bob

I would keep Your loaner at the house, under lock and key with a bad dog sleeping on the front seat :D .

My luck I would take the repaired truck and they would sell the loaner on Friday afternoon....

Good Luck
Steve

I would keep Your loaner at the house, under lock and key with a bad dog sleeping on the front seat :D .

My luck I would take the repaired truck and they would sell the loaner on Friday afternoon....

Good Luck
Steve

Yes, I know what you are saying. They said they would keep it around until I am happy with the new one, but nothing makes them do that. I seriously considered making them an offer on the loaner which is the 2001 8.1 3500 that I traded in. I sold a 2002 dodge half ton a few days ago that brought almost enough money to buy it back from the dealer. Only problem with that is the insurance on another 1-ton truck. I have a commercial policy on the 1-ton that is pretty expensive. Crazy thing about that is adding on a second 1-ton on that policy more than doubles the cost of the policy. You would think adding a vehicle on would give you some sort of discount for multiple vehicles, but just the opposite happens on that commercial policy.

Bob

Hope all works out. Sure took them long enough but the dealer seems to have your back.

Now that you have your new truck, I am interested in hearing how it now compares to that gasser you gave up. Let us know what you think about this truck over the old 8.1 when towing for your business. Since your initial impression was so low, I would like to hear how the truck performs when running properly.

Now that you have your new truck, I am interested in hearing how it now compares to that gasser you gave up. Let us know what you think about this truck over the old 8.1 when towing for your business. Since your initial impression was so low, I would like to hear how the truck performs when running properly.

Very good question. So far since getting the truck back, we have just driven it 300 to 400 miles locally seeing how it runs. Runs good and everything seems to be working well. Seemed to be pulling to the left for no good reason when I first got it back. Turned out they let the air out of the left front tire while working on the truck to make it lower. When they reinflated the tire, they put in 40 pounds while the other front tire had 60 PSI. Corrected that and it handles better now.

Tomorrow we will take it on a 600 mile one day trip to pick up a 2000 load of merchandise. That won't test its pulling ability but should give me a good idea of economy for a lightly loaded highway trip. I should have a towing trip later in the week.

I am also very interested in comparing the Duramax to my old 8.1 liter. Just have to have some loads to tow before I will know. Running empty, I would have to give the performance nod to the 8.1 and Allison combination in every way. Economy empty definately goes to the Duramax. I can right now do a few empty and lightly loaded comparisons. With 1000 pounds in the bed (my normal load of tools and stuff) the 8.1 will always break the (4) rear tires loose at around half throttle on take off. I have never managed to get even a good chirp out of the (2) rear tires on the new SRW 3500 with Duramax/Allison. I know that when I took out a regular cab 2500 HD Duramax/Allison/ I could easily break loose the rear tires on that one. Of course those two trucks are quite different. Smaller tires on the 2500 HD and probably 1000 pounds lighter.

Economy is likely not going to be better overall for the Duramax compared to the 8.1. If I get the 25 percent better fuel economy with the Duramax, that is partly offset now by the 10 percent greater cost of diesel compared to gasoline. Also my cost for service will be quite a bit higher with the duramax. On the 8.1, my cost for all recommended service for 55,000 miles performed by the dealer was around $500.00. (just checked my records). That included oil and filter every 3 to 4 K miles and tire rotation every second oil change and a transmission fluid change at 25,000 miles. I am thinking that service for the Duramax may run perhaps 3 times that much to have the dealer do all of it. Factor into that the $5000.00 additional cost of the Duramax and it is tough to imagine that the Duramax will be more economical over time than the 8.1.

If we take this comparison far out into the future, the comparison likely gets worse. If both the 8.1 and Duramax go the GM rated 200,000 miles before needing overhaul, I would expect $2000.00 would put the 8.1 back into shape at the local engine rebuilders shop. That shop won't even touch a Duramax and from my experience so far, I don't think that a dealer around here would attempt an overhaul on the Duramax, so I am not even sure what the options might be for the Duramax. I would expect though that the rebuld option would be more money than the vehicle is worth by the time the Duramax needs an overhaul. Perhaps someone else could let me know what one would expect to pay for a rebuild on the Duramax.

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for being here!

It is people like you with well written, insightful posts, that make this such a great site.

Please continue keeping us posted on life with your new truck!

Jay

Just an update on the truck now that it has been out of the shop a few days. We have put about 1000 miles on it in the 4 days since it came out of the shop. It has performed well so far except that the around town and short trip driving has given about a 14 for MPG. I had hoped for better than that.

Today we took it on a 600 mile trip. Went about 300 miles to our battery charger supplier and picked up a load that weighed around 2000 lbs and drove straight back. We had the truck full leaving here this morning and filled up when we got to our supplier. Got 17.2 MPG hand figured on the empty run. We drove at a steady 70 miles per hour. The DIC read 17.4.

Coming back 2000 pounds heavier, we got 16.8 MPG at same speed (70) and the DIC read 17.4.

By the way, 70 MPH comes to almost exactly 2000 RPM on the tach on this 2005 crew cab SRW 3500.

Normally for this particular trip, we have used our 1996 GMC 3500 DRW with 6.5 TD. That one gets about 16 MPG on the same trip with the same loads. It turns about 2300 RPM at 70 with its 4.10 gears. It would do lots better at 2000 RPM on MPG, but the trip gets tiresome running that slowly.

Should have some towing to do later in the week.

Bob

Just another update on the problem truck. Now have about 1500 miles on the truck in the week since I got it back out of the shop.

Today we took it up to our trailer supplier and picked up a load of trailers that we sell here. This load was a double stack of trailers, not real heavy, but the front stack was about 10 feet tall and 8 feet wide. I think the frontal area means perhaps more to towing than weight. Anyway, this load was a medium one for us at around 8,000 pounds. Length of the truck with the double stack of trailers was about 64 feet. Distance is about 170 miles each way. Got 17.2 MPG going up empty at about 70 MPH and 10.1 coming back with the load at about 65 MPH. Temperatures today were from 90 to 98 degrees. Highest transmission temperature I saw was 200 and engine temp stayed at 200.

Have to say that today was the first time I have heard that fan come on at highway speed. That thing is outrageously loud. It was only on for at most around a minute at a time and came on perhaps 10 times during the 170 mile trip back with the load. I expect when pulling a load of 10,000 pounds or more on a hot day, that fan will be on most of the time. I would say that it is loud enough to make conversation difficult in the truck and it comes on seemingly without anything that I can see on the gauges causing it. Also goes off the same way without making any change in the temperature reading on the gauges.

I have to say that my old 2001 8.1 seems to pull up the few small hills somewhat better (or perhaps I should say just different) than the Duramax. The 8.1 would downshift to 4th then sometimes 3rd and maintain the speed within 1 mph of the cruise control setting. The difference would be in tuning for the cruise, I suppose. The Duramax on the same hills, first loses about 5 mph then shifts down to 4th. It then immediately accelerates back to make up for the 5 mph it lost while still climbing the hill, then back to 5th. I would prefer a quicker downshift instead of it waiting then accelerating in 4th.

Someone might help me with what exactly is going on in 5th with the Duramax and Allison. Why would the truck have trouble maintaining 65 mph up a moderate hill in 5th at 1800 rpm and easily accelerate back to 65 within seconds of a downshift to 4th at 2400 rpm? Is the Duramax torque and horsepower limited in 5th?

Except for an annoying fan that I suppose is doing what it should do, and what seems to me to be the nonsensical late downshift in cruise, I guess the truck is doing everything pretty well.

Bob

Glad to hear it! I hope it keeps doing well for you...

You will recover to cost difference in resale value.

I would say 14-15 in real city driving is right on. Isn't that a 40% to 50% gain against your 8.1? Surely it got 10-11 on its best day.

Get a tuner, 40hp at least and 60-70hp is better. That will change two things: The performance edge you gave to the 8.1 you will then give to the Dmax WITHOUT QUESTION and the second thing is the truck will be able to hold 5th much better. The boost curve is so slow and lazy that the truck doesn't make too much power until a good bit of throttle is put to it. The tuner will make that right for you. I feel that at 70rwhp over stock is the way the truck SHOULD have come from the factory to begin with.

There are various opinions on the power being limited in 5th AND 1st, but thats another topic completely.

Just my .02 (no checks please, cash only!)

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BOBC, glad all is well with your truck. Hope it stays healthy for you. Let us know how it does with some of the bigger loads. Jerry.

My records for the 8.1 3500 show an average of 10 MPG over the 3 years of owning it with about half of the miles lightly loaded and half towing loads. I think the same duty using the 2005 Duramax will turn in between 12.5 to 13 MPG or about a 25 to 30 percent better fuel economy. Since Diesel now cost about 10 percent more than unleaded regular, that puts the "equivalent" increase in mileage down to 15 to 20 percent. I think the increased cost of service on the Diesel will eat up much of that advantage.

I think the economy difference, with careful figuring is just not there. If it is not there, then where is the reason to buy the Duramax over the 8.1? People say to add things (costing even more money) to make the Duramax have an edge over the 8.1. This is strictly and economic discussion as far as I am concerned. I use this truck in my business and every mile it goes is a business mile. Right now, looks to me that stock for stock, the 8.1 pull my loads better, is quieter, and costs several thousand bucks less at purchase.

Not trying to start an argument. If ones reason is just that he wants a diesel, that if fine with me. If it is because there are lots of goodies available to enhance its performance, that is fine with me also. I am just trying to find out how anyone makes financial sense out of buying a Duramax rather than an 8.1.

Bob

Durability. Yes, yours broke, but thats rare. Look how much harder your 8.1 was working to tow that load. Downshifting twice on the same hill? Had to be getting the rpm going which is wear and tear.

If you are buying for work not pleasure then you buy the diesel for the long haul, not to replace every couple of years. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to get 300,000 miles from the diesel with no degradation in performance and no rebuild.

The price of fuel won't stay up forever, when I got my truck it was 20% cheaper for diesel in my area than for the cheapest unleaded, so the economy of it fuel wise made good sense. Even with the fuel costing more it still wins overall on economy. When the fuel costs come back down you will reap the rewards.

Again, don't overlook resale value. You paid up front, you will get it back on the way out. For tax purposes, you can deduct the entire cost of the truck the first year, a one time deduction, since it costs more then thats a greater tax benefit in year one. Claim the mileage in the following years.

Not arguing just making points that I feel are valid. I am kinda getting the vibe from you that you are sour on the truck due to having the early issue so no matter how it performs now you will never be happy with it. If that is true then get rid of it. I would rather lose money and be happy than save money and not be happy. But thats me.

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Durability. Yes, yours broke, but thats rare. Look how much harder your 8.1 was working to tow that load. Downshifting twice on the same hill? Had to be getting the rpm going which is wear and tear.

If you are buying for work not pleasure then you buy the diesel for the long haul, not to replace every couple of years. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to get 300,000 miles from the diesel with no degradation in performance and no rebuild.

The price of fuel won't stay up forever, when I got my truck it was 20% cheaper for diesel in my area than for the cheapest unleaded, so the economy of it fuel wise made good sense. Even with the fuel costing more it still wins overall on economy. When the fuel costs come back down you will reap the rewards.

Again, don't overlook resale value. You paid up front, you will get it back on the way out. For tax purposes, you can deduct the entire cost of the truck the first year, a one time deduction, since it costs more then thats a greater tax benefit in year one. Claim the mileage in the following years.

Not arguing just making points that I feel are valid. I am kinda getting the vibe from you that you are sour on the truck due to having the early issue so no matter how it performs now you will never be happy with it. If that is true then get rid of it. I would rather lose money and be happy than save money and not be happy. But thats me.

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Christopher,

I am sort of soured on a truck buying experience and am trying to separate those feelings from evaluating a truck that now seems to be working like it is intended to. Now, that sorting is taking me to what seems to be weak performance in 5th gear.

I went back to the dealership today and talked to the transmission tech about that one. He said, Yes, he is covered up with complaints about that right now. Said that it only seems to apply to the 2005 models. Complaint is usually just like mine. The truck goes to WOT in 5th while climbing a hill with a load. Stays at WOT until the speed drops about 5 MPH then downshifts and accelerates back up to where the cruise is set while still climbing the hill. If the climb goes on for long enough, the truck will shift back to 5th and start the sequence over again. He is sure that it is a programming change made to the 2005 models, but has not been able to get any fix from GM yet. He doesn't think that the earlier models (before 2005) would have even needed to downshift for the load I was pulling on the hills I was climbing. From my talk with the transmission guy, I am thinking that the engine is detuned in 5th or the amount of detuning increased in 2005.

He added my truck to his existing list that he has sent in to GM for this problem.

Bob

Good answer.

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