A bit of a silly question for most I'm sure, but I'm new to pulling 5ers so bear with me please.

I've got a short bed with stacks and then a toolbox behind the stacks. I've also got a small aux tank directly under the toolbox the same width as the toolbox. I'm thinking of buying a 5er holiday trailer and need to know if I can do it or not for clearance issues. I can pull the toolbox no problem for clearance on top of the bed, but my problem lies in the bed. If I install the hitch, the pin will be located probably 10-14 inches behind the center of the axle.

Question is; Is the 10"-14" OK or no? How bad will this thing buck and sway on me? I don't plan on the trailer being very big or heavy, all I'm worried about is placement of the pin. All the rig drivers I've ever talked to like the pin either smack in the middle of the axles or slightly forward. What do you guys with much more experience say?

you want it 1 1\2 inches in front of the center of the axle no more then that depending wich hitch you go to you will have to know what distace to put the rails from the end of the bed

you want it 1 1\2 inches in front of the center of the axle no more then that depending on which hitch you go to you will have to know what distance to put the rails from the end of the bed

Dead center or forward up to an 1" is my preference.

I am an rv dealer when we install the hitch in a short box we
set it dead center on the ax
long box 2" ahead
my own truck is set at dead center or can move back 7" to make a full 90
degree corner

So all is as I though. Now..... What would the ride be like and the handling if one were to run it the way I described, 10"-14" back, maybe not even that far, but I estimated large.

I Install 5th wheels and trailer hitches and you should not install one that far back of the axle. On a short bed truck you install the rails over the axle then put a slider unit on it to help in manuvering the 5th wheel in tight spots. Also the bed is not stable where you plan on putting it. I think you will also run into interferance problems. You can go to www.draw-tite.com (http://www.draw-tite.com) and download installation instructions for a p/n 6005 rail kit and that will give you the measurement. The engineers design this for the safety of not only you but also anyone that is travelling around you.

The most slide I can get is 12" on a 15K or 16K hitch. But like you said, designed only for maneuvering, not bombing down the highway. I tried.

If you're not going to have a very big 5th wheel, have a welding shop put a custom pin box on it moving the king pin quite a ways forward on the trailer. DO NOT mount the hitch behind the axle, it will tow like crap. Not to mention the bed isn't built for that either. If you just can't make it work, maybe go with a bumper pull. :D

DO NOT mount the hitch behind the axle. Very dangerous steering wise.

With a short box it nice to have a sliding hitch. In the front position in should be 1 1/2 or 2" infront of the center of the rear axle and in the rear possition it should be 46 1/2 inches from the center of the back window. That way if you need to you can put in the rear position and the front corner of the 5er will clear the rear window for tight turns.

Zorg',

Guess your wondering why the negative replies. I'll try to give you a rough and short answer to that so that you can make a "wise" decision on this matter.

Fivers can have up to 25% of the total gross weight on the kingpin at a stand-still. During accelleration, that weight is slightly less, and there is a lifting affect (higher mounted articulated hitch), which can take weight off the front (steer) axles. The further back the hitch point, the greater this affects steering (teeter-totter affect).

During braking, the pin weight is increased, as the "teeter-totter affect" shifts the trailer forward, especially when the trailer brakes are applied hard. Center mounted hitch transfer this additional weight to to the front axle (more if slightly front of center), which is where the greater amount of braking is done, adding stability and control, especially during "panic" stops. At 12-14" behind the centerline of the axle, this would have the opposite affect, lifting the front axle up during braking...in other words, an unsafe condition can occur, and if the roadway is at all slick or "lumpy", skidding and loss of steering control would certainly steam up your shorts. Larger HD trucks can shift weight behind center, but they have 10-12K lbs of cab and engine weight on their steers to begin with. Not so on a S/B light truck (emphasis on LIGHT, here).

Secondly, the design of the hydro-formed frame rails on LIGHT TRUCKS (again, emphasis on LIGHT). The design of the twisty and bent up rails are intended to perform within certain limits (the gross axle weight rating of the truck), with the brunt of the weight between the axles, for stability. The "tapering" of these rails, behind the centerline of the rear axles is for asthetic reasons, so that the truck is lower to the ground, and this section was not designed to carry the max payload. Fivers have heavy tongue weights, whic is why the hitch makers spread the bases out so wide and long, so as to distribute that weight over a larger area across the FRAME (through the truck's bed via wide plates, not in the bed itself).

For these reasons, I and others, caution you not to mount your Fiver hitch so far back on your frame rails. Even if you can control the "slipery" braking, with a lighter Fiver, you will find that through the course of time, your rear rails will start to bend...lifting and distorting the truck's bed, and eventually, the rear part of the springs will fail (the ends of the springs were not designed to carry the max weight ratings of the entire assembly, only a distributed part of it). Even a 6,000 lbs Fivers can easily exceed 1,500 lbs. on the kingpin during heavy braking....

The physics involved are more complicated than that, but this is just a rough explanation. Another thing to consider. Extended tongues are available, and I had one on a Fiver once. The problem is, that they have to drop below the side rails and tail gate. If too long, you will not be able to travel with the tail gate up, and would have limited steering because the base of the extended kingpin would strike the bed rails long before the trailer would reach the vertical exhaust stacks.....and it would not be covered by your insurance.

RF.

I gotcha! The reason I can't mount the hitch over the axle is because I've got an auxilary fuel tank there. Now, I will follow everyone's advice and not mount a hitch at all. The longer tongue is not an option here either. I did think of that for a short bed already, but it's the whole thing about not being able to mount the hitch far enough forward. I will get a dealer to "place" a hitch in my box maybe and see if it'll work. If not, no 5er hitch for me!! :(

Radio Flyer, thanks for the physics lesson! I really did understand what you said and it makes perfect sense!!

I have the Drawtite slider hitch. I have "accidentally" towed a few times without moving the hitch into the forward "tow" position. With my trailer and setup, I did not notice anything different until I got out of the vehicle and saw what I did.

My father has his 5th wheel hitch (non sliding) mounted about 12" behind the axle on his 2001 8.1L/Ally EC Dually. He did this because he has a Lincoln 300D welding machine in the front of the bed. I have rode with him and drove the setup pulling a 30 ft. Carri-lite (with a 14" pin extension) and cannot tell that it handles adversely. Most of the rig welders have thier rigs setup this way so that don't have to have buy another heavy truck to be just a "tow" vehicle. Dad has towed this way for 30 years with various makes of trucks and 5th wheels without a problem.

Personally, I feel that the better idea is mount the hitch center and have an extended tongue, but you make do with what you have.

My goose and 5th wheel hitch are 1" forward of my axle. I plan on eliminating the 5th wheel hitch on my RV and converting it to a goose hitch with about a 14"-18" extension (8" or 10" channel).

Flame away. Just representing the other side of coin.

i will represent the minority here, but I have a GN adapter on my fifth wheel ( RV1 by pop up industries) and a B&W turnover ball. i have towed this setup for several thousand miles and it rides fine. With the extended kingpin and the 5" offset on the adapter, I can turn very close to 90* on my shortbed. before the questions about the 5er frame and such, I checked with the manufacturer and my insurer and both said fine. I beleive the RV1 is the stoutest adapter in the industry, no props or adverts here just stating opinion, as I also have some minor gripes about it. it does the job very well, i am 100% confident in this setup. not for everyone or every triailer, but this gives me the complete flexibility I need.

Oh, it also gave me the room to transport my elk while towing as well......the carcass at least. try that with a fifth hitch :D

I can transport TWO elk carcass while towing (5er), betch'a.

No, it's a long bed. LOL

Idahofox