Pulled the 5th for a camping trip for the first time last weekend. On the way home I pulled in to a roadside scale and found out I was 1150lb over on the trailer GVW and 1140 over on the truck. CVGW was just under 19k. You could tell there was something back there but it pulled quite well. We were packed quite light for our standards and I thought the camper would hold a lot more weight. We had no water on board just the stuff for camping. Wondering about the accuracy of the scale or if any one else has trouble keeping under GVW. I passed the same scale a couple of weeks ago and weighed the truck with a full tank of fuel and my own ass.
Truck front:4092
rear:2860
Truck and trailer front: 4928
rear:5456
trailer:8030
GVW for this trailer is 10300. Any one else have similar problems?

How big is your camper?


Dry weight is 8030lbs and the trucks dry weight would be around 8000lbs give or take. So if you are at 19k you added 3k worth of extra stuff. Sounds a bit out of wack to me. Especially with no water.

So your GVCW was 18414

And your trailer was 10626.

You are a bit over. I have a 40' Weekend Warrior 5'er and face the same issues. The weight in the books is quite under the actual scale weight. Loaded with water, and basics, it is over weight.

If you look at the axle weights, you are well within specs.

Don't get in a wreck. The insurance companies will get us....

10,626 is not over weight for a 5th as far as the truck is concerned. Go by your axle ratings both trailer and truck. The 10,000 GVW on the trailer sounds low. What are the axle ratings?

What are the axle ratings? As well as the tire ratings!!

My 5th wheel has very similar ratings as yours. The axles on the trailer are made by Dexter and have a 5200 lbs rating (times 2 for a total of 10400 #), yet the trailer manufacture put ST225-R15 Load Range C tires on that limit the set-up to a combined axle capacity of 8600 lbs. So do what Fingers mentions, look at the sticker on the side of the trailer, see what your axle/tire combo is good for.

I suspect you'll find you have at least a 8600 # rating (there are only so many tires combos out there). In which case you are OK on the axles. Your pin weight seems rather high (roughly 25%). Maybe you could re-distribute some of the weight towards the trailer tires. This would help the truck out. Your still over on the trailer though.

Just some ramblings,
Alan

A little more info. The trailer is a Cougar 281 about 30'. The trailer tires are rated at 2540 and the trailer axle is rated 4400 per axle. The tires on the truck are rated 3415 single. We were away for only two days so we could have packed a lot heavier. The trans was kicking out of OD on the rolling hills and overpasses but no lack of power. Max egt's ran about 1300 but on the flat around the 1050 range. Average mpg was 11 using a US gallon. We still have lots of storage space for more stuff and a 3k boat to put behind. I see a lot of compareable 5th's with a boat as big as ours, pulling with half the truck. Their weights must be damn scary. I am going to try another scale but wondering if any one will admit to similar weight issues because there has to be a lot out there. If my figures are accurate, I never would have believed it.

So you are already overweight on the truck and trailer and you still want to strap a 3k lb boat behind this rig. Interesting? :confused: I only have one question: ARE YOU FREAKIN NUTS? :eek:

OK, deep breaths, JJ needs more intel. :confused: I went to Keystone RV's website and pulled up the 281EFS 5ver's stats. Is this the one you have? Does it have a bedroom slide upfront? The pin weight on that unit is only supposed to be 1420 pounds dry, yet your before/after weights show considerably more at around 3400lbs? Major difference! :eek: Almost 900 lbs added to the front axle, 2500+ to the rear axle? :confused: Even allowing 1k lbs for you, mama and the kiddies that's still some major weight. Something just doesn't add up! :confused:

If the roadside scale was free then I wouldn't trust it. Go to a major truck stop and get on some certified scales, weigh each axle, trucks and trailers, and get a print out and post it for us to see. :exactly:

4400lb axles are awfully lightweight. That better be a triple axle according to Keystone's posted GVWR of 10220lbs(dry weight + cargo capacity). Interesting I didn't see any triple axles on their site? :o: So far it sounds like a recipe for disaster to try and hook the boat to this already overweight tandem. :( Does your boat trailer have electric or surge brakes? I wouldn't hook that boat up to this rig until you have some of these questions answered. ;)

RF3 will likely be right behind me to clean up anything I may have missed! :D Safety first MaxOD. Only trying to help. JJ :)

The boat won't add much weight to the trailer. It might actually take some weight off the truck. His boat is likely only 100lbs tongue weight and the rest is supported by the boat trailer axles. I wouldn't worry about it at all.

MaxPower, hopefully you posted right before you read my last post? But to be on the safe side. ;)

Strapping these units together without first ensuring they are all within their listed capacities and within safe operating parameters isn't a wise idea, period! :exactly:

I for one wouldn't want MaxOD to assume he can hook these 3 units together and hit any serious grades, especially downhill, until he has accurate facts and figures in hand. :badidea: SAFETY FIRST, ego's last! :exactly:
MaxOD, where are you getting your trailer axle ratings from? You should see a stamp affixed to the trailer showing the Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) and Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). Also, look on the side of your trailer tires and get the max load rating. 4400lb axles? Doesn't sound like they belong on a 5ver. We need the additional intel to safely advise you. JJ :)

A lot of people do a lot more with a lot less.

A lot of people do a lot more with a lot less.


I moved my folks from Northern Wisconsin to Phoenix AZ, 3 years ago. I had my tri axle enclosed trailer and my 02 duramax dually. I knew i was heavy, so for ****s and grins I weighed it in Phoenix before we unloaded. 36,200#

I'm glad I didn't stop at any chicken coups!


Blake

i have a 2500hd duramax with allison and my fifth weighs about 13000 loaded and the atv trailer is about 6000. i know this is over what gm will say is acceptable. i own a landscaping company and have pulled heavy loads all my life. i can pull this at 75 down the freeway all day and feel completely safe. make sure you have good trailer brakes and everything is ballanced correctly. i guess i have about 2000 to 2500 pounds of hitch weight. jj has mentioned to me before that this is to much tail for the truck and i do respect his opion for he has been helpful in the past but i disagree completly. semi trucks pull trailers that out weigh the rigs by same percentages. i have had some overheating issues with this truck but its been when pulling the fifth only over 10000 foot elevation with 6 to 8 percent grades. but for normal freeway driving it pulls like a dream. you need to be the test for what is ok. are you driving with both hands and feel like you have to concentrate to drive or does it just feel heavy but you can drive with one hand and feel like everything is in control. only you can be the judge for what feels safe for every load is different.

Good discussion. I'll take safety discussions over performance, looks and maintenance anyday. At the end of these discussions we normally learn a thing or to. Let's continue! ;)

LONG POST ALERT!
This topic pops up on a regular basis. We get into these lively discussions, some agree, some disagree, .... Bottom line is we need to have these discussions, not only for those that post the questions, but falso or those that read our posts and "go to school" on what they can/should do if they decide to tow with their vehicles. :exactly:

I posted a thread several months back titled "Who ya talking to" to caution those of us giving advice against going too far without knowing the towing/driving skill of those we are giving advice to. Ol' JJ is not only big on safety but "big on life", so I try to weigh my advice carefully, ask questions, yea step on some toes sometimes to, but all in the interest of everyones safety. ;)

All is well towing tandem rigs until Bambi decides to cross the road right in front of you, heaven help you if it's at night. :eek: It really won't matter how many sets of hands you have on the steering wheel, the "average person's" first reaction is going to be to steer away from Bambi and nail the brakes, oh yea and really fast! :(

Oops, you suddenly realize you have started a "mass in motion reaction" so you try to compensate by turning the wheel the other way, still holding the brakes. Depending upon where the weight is, its speed and momentum you are likely in for one wild ride. Oh, did I forget to mention there are other vehicles on the road with you while this is going on? :o:

OK, that scenario could happen to anyone towing, even those towing within their vehicles GVWR/GCWR/GAWR and they would have their hands full as well maintaining control of their rigs. My point here is just because you can get a mass moving and everything feels comfy going down the road you have to take into consideration that when evasive or emergency maneuvers are required you must be able to maintain control over that mass. :exactly:

This is why we have weight ratings based upon our chassis, brakes, tires, engine/tranny, etc. The trailers have ratings for the same reasons! :) There is so much more to towing/trailering than just getting that mass moving. Those of you that have towed well above GVWR/GAWR/GCWR without incident were fortunate enough not to have any events happen around you during that evolution. The overwhelming majority of rigs you see in the ditches, in a pile-up, jack-knifed, or over the guard rail likely took evasive maneuvers. ;)

oteo125 states: "semi trucks pull trailers that out weigh the rigs by same percentages."

Well not exactly. :rolleyes: Semi trucks are designed from the ground up to pull and control heavy weights. The weight of the tow vehicle is not directly proportional to how much it can safely tow, e.g. a 5300lb Chevy Avlanche is only rated to tow 6300lbs! Why? It is designed as a 1/2 ton vehicle with brakes, chassis, engine/tranny matched to its design capabilities! It is not designed to be a towing machine. This is why I bought my 3500 dually.

This is an opportune time to remind all that these are "light duty" trucks, not medium or heavy duty! :rolleyes: I'll let some of our fellow DP members that have driven big rigs continue this session. RF3, your up! :D

We should all be able to agree that MaxOD needs to check the axle ratings for his 5ver at 4400lbs? The pin weight he posted from the scales is almost twice what the manufacturer says it is dry? Advising someone to pull this rig, much less strap a 3k lb boat behind it, with all these unanswered questions is what caught my eye on this thread. Safety first, always! :ro)

It may take me a little longer to come around on threads like this. Yea JJ's anal and likes lots of intel. When I do give MaxOD advice it will be after I have all the intel I need in front of me to give safe towing advice. JJ's out! :)

Being one that is over the CGVW, I completely agree with JJ.:eek: I also understand the thinking of percentage to tow vehicle versus trailer. But as JJ pointed out, these are 'Light Duty' trucks. I take extra care beyond the towing aspect while driving. I've also put the trailer on a diet to help get back to safe limits. Unfortunately, I can't afford the rig RF has or it would be sitting outside now! More info is needed though for a more thorough 'AAAA' opinion!):h
TT

just got back from the scale with my today. total trailer weight is 18500. hitch weight or weight on rear axle is 5750. front axle is 4450. the truck is not overloaded by gm specs for weight carried but the 18500 does exceed the 14500 they suggest for towing. it wouldnt hurt to take jj's suggestion and get as much info as possable. expereince has alot to do with pulling trailers to. after time youll be able to tell right away if it feels safe or if you need to lighten or adjust load.

oteo125, thanks for posting those weights, it brought up something I had forgotten to mention earlier on MaxOD's first post. But first your weights? Your front axle weight is right in line with the weight the truck would be unloaded, I suspect most if not all of the weight of your trailer appears to be on the rear axle. Is this a ball mount or 5ver mount? :confused:

MaxOD's weight went up significantly on the front axle with his 5ver attached, much more than I would have expected. This is why I suggested the truck stop "certified" scales. Things just don't add up. :o:

Before any of you start doing the math and calling ol JJ a "hippo-crit" ):h I also exceed the GCWR at times when my toyhauler is loaded very heavy. This is why I went with a dually. :ro) (Bubble Butt's rule baby!) I just had to do that! ):h OK, back on track. Much like TT when I'm this heavy I exercise extreme caution and awareness of my surroundings, usually only drive during the day, and even though my Dumax can still pull it 70-80mph I back er down to 60-65mph for an extra margin of safety. :cool:

Good discussion folks. JJ :)

Hi guys, thanks for the insight. The Axle weights I quoted are from the sticker on the front of the trailer. Its a dual axle and mounted with a 5th wheel plate. The trailer handled very well other than feeling heavier than when we pulled it home dry. Maybe set the back of the truck down about 4" when hitched. 5th plate is mounted directly over the rear axle. I don't have any additional suspension on the rear of the truck. No bedroom slide on this model, front storage compartments contain a small propane tank 11lb, ladder, 4 lawn chairs, carpet aprox. 20lb, can't see the whole works being over 300lb. Kitchen is situated over the tanden wheels and the rear has a large storage garage where most of the packed weight is. I think I will search out a better scale and hope to get a more accurate weight. The 5th is rated at 8030 dry and 10300 gross. There is no way we have 3000lb of stuff even with added options.

its a fifth wheel hitchhiker camper trailer. i have a slide hitch in it but because its a short box more of the weight is on the rear axle then it would be on a long box being as the hitch would be slightly in front of rear axle.

Hey, to support JJ's discussion about Bambi, the better half and I were traveling east on Highway 200 in Montana at about 8:00 P.M. doing about 60 mph. There weren't any other vehicles on the road at that time when BIGFOOT the monter bambi jumps down off of the side of the road on the drivers side headed for the other ditch. I'm about 1K over weight and there isn't any time to do anything except steer to the left hit the brakes at the same time and hope BIGFOOT doesn't come through the windshield. His front shoulders were almost as high as the hood on my rig. Hats off to the manufactures of the truck and trailer because they handled it well and we proceeded down the road, slower though, 45 mph. We get own the road maybe 50 miles and there is a semi headed towards us. 200 is two lane so there isn't much place to go in case of a suprise. Needless to say about four of those four legged lovebugs decided to hold a Chineez Fire Drill in front of the semi and my rig in the middle of the road, and the side then the other side. Again left turn to miss the most of them and hope the semi sees what is going on. He did. He braked and went to his left and we kinda did a "doe see doe" (pun), but made it through the firedrill. I got on the CB and apologized for running him off the road. He said "hell I thought I run you aff the road". We both gave reports of road conditions in the rear and went on our ways. Now I'm doing about 30 mph and have both hands on the wheel, with white knuckels (new perfume, smells like sweat). Morale of the story, bambi does jump out and your rig, you and your fellow highway friends need to be able to handle the situation. Myself I would'nt pull a double with a pick-up especially if it has surge brakes on the end trailer. Thanks for listening. Be safe. Be sane.

Wild Willy,

Been There, Done That.

Done Good "Leroy".

Idahofox

I haven't towed over GVW, but I have done more than the GCW with no problems. Trailer weighs between 18 and 20,000 pounds. I'm not sure of fuel burn, but it's probably less than 10 mpg. Its a new trailer and new truck, equipment in excellent shape, brakes work great. I wouldn't do it with equipment that was questionable, but under these conditions I feel safe. BTW, I pulled it today at highway speeds in about 108 degrees heat in southern Arizona, temp gauge was pointing "straight-up" or less.

i know doubles scare alot of people but here is some food for thought. on a truck with doubles you have two points of movement. one is the fifth wheel hitch to trailer, and the secound is the 2nd trailer to the middle trailer. not really that bad. now think a minute on a double semi there is three points of movement. one on rig to first trailer. 2nd is first trailer to dolly. and third is dolly to 2nd trailer. starting to get worse being as there is more points of movements. now the really scary part is a semi with triples. there are five points. first in rig to first trailer, 2nd is first trailer to dolly, 3rd is dolly to 2nd trailer, 4th is 2nd trailer to dolly, 5th is dolly to third trailer. this is why they are outlawed in many states. i know when i pull my 2nd trailer behind my fifth you dont even know its there. the fifth weighs almost 14500 pounds so the extra 3500 behind it has little effect on it. the brakes are large enough to handle it and it feels just as safe as when its not there.

Here's my $.02 for whatever it's worth. I've towed 2 trailers for 50,000 miles from Wisconsin to the Pacific Ocean, and fortunately had no close calls. The 2nd trailer weighed 5500# and of course I was way over GCWR. Cruising on the freeway is no problem, it's when you have a situation like wild willy's (see pg 2) that you get religion real quick. To me, it is VITAL to be conservative in what you're doing. Good equipment (especially brakes), keep speed appropriate to the road conditions, concentrate on your driving, etc.

IMO, each person will choose their level of comfort concerning safety, and as JJs Du Max has pointed out, it's important that this be a consious, informed decision. Towing any trailer takes skill and attention, and longer, heavier, and more joints means more so.

Just wanted to say a quick thanks for the folks who provided input on this thread. I just bought my first Diesel 2 weeks ago. This is a huge improvement from what I was towing with before (99' Z71 5.3L with 4" lift and 33's) What was I towing? 23' 5th wheel trailer with slide out. Its not a monster by any means but its 5100LBS dry. I figure packed down etc it was about 7000lbs. I didnt feel too bad pulling on flat ground but hills were just terrible. I never felt comfortable towing that trailer with that truck. :badidea:

I am geting ready to take the family to the beach this weekend for a little R/R and cant wait to see how the new rig pulls. I appreciate you guys giving tips and especially the safety aspect, I know the unsafe feeling well. I have experienced the dreaded "Pucker factor" a few times when someone in front of me Braked Hard and I barely stopped in time. I wish I had found this site a couple years ago. Anyway, safe travels to you all. :driver:

Bowtie, you are going to love pulling with your truck! Have a great weekend! JJ :)