1. Describe the problem you are having in detail:

Truck cranks but will not start. Cranks fast with two new Motomaster Eliminator 875 CCA batteries. I have also installed a 1500W inline coolant heater (see attached pic). I have been doing a lot of searching and troubleshooting so far with no luck. I have basically narrowed it down to my glow plugs. I know that 2 out of the 5 I was able to test are showing no resistance at all. I am about 420KM from home at work on the rigs and would love to change the glows but cannot at the moment. My question is how do i get this bitch to start with failed glow plugs?

2. Year of truck (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42248#)/engine. -- 1996
3. Odometer reading (indicate miles or kilometers). -- 209,xxx km
4. Indicate the model number on the Injection pump (starts DS4 or DB2......). -- DS4
5. Indicate if you know if it’s a 1500, 2500, 2500HD, 3500, 3500HD. -- 2500
6. Do you have an EGR on the engine? (An F or an S engine code 8th VIN digit) -- no EGR (Vin F engine)
7. Air Filter condition (visual check). -- Custom cone filter - a little dirty but hasn't impeded starting in the past. (see pic)
8. Fuel filter condition (freshly changed, mileage since changed). -- Changed in the spring (tried to change it 3 times but new filters will not fit - cannot screw cap on after replacing filter) - has less than 9,000km on filter since changed.
9. Location of PMD/FSD (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39436)? (ex. on pump/remote over intake, behind bumper). -- New less than 6 months ago - mounted on intake (see pic)
9a. If remote mounted, describe wiring harness (homemade or purchased from which vendor). -- used factory harness
9b. Indicate the location and condition of the FSD/IP grounding wire. -- attached to FSD heatsink.
10. Outside Temperature (C or F). -- -9°C (-16°C with wind chill)

11. Service Engine Light while running?- on/off/intermittent -- off
11a. Service Engine light does glow during start/cranking/bulb check: Yes/No -- yes
12.Have you scanned for engine codes? Yes/No -- no
12a. List exact results on engine codes (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/dtc.php).

13. Condition of Battery terminals (removed, cleaned and tightened). -- clean and tight
14. Known condition and age of Batteries. -- New Motomaster Eliminator 875 CCA (4 days old)
14a. Are batteries a matched set of same age? -- yes
15. Condition of Major Grounds (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157085) (removed, cleaned and tightened) -- checked and tight but have not cleaned them yet

16. Does engine crank, or "turn over"? -- yes
16a. Does engine start and run? -- only after sitting in a heated garage after a few hours
17. If engine does not start- Crack injector line (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2188140#post2188140): do you have fuel? Yes/No -- yes
18. Does your Wait To Start light come on? -- yes
18a.Number of seconds WTS light is lit. -- cycles on and off for approx 6 secs


I have done the lift pump test and it is working fine. Please help me get this truck started - I have to get home to my family for Christmas. Thank you.

Fuel filter will fit one way only,look for the wide tab on filter and housing.

Do you get smoke when trying to start.?
turn key on and check for power on the pass side big stud on glow controller.dr side stud is allways hot.You can momenterely bypass it if the controller is toast to get it started,May need a helper to do that.
It should fire up with 5 working glowers.
Check fuel press at the T-valve,check for air at the fuel filter bleed plug.
To me it sounds like fuel could be bleeding back as well.

take a hair dryer and stick it in the intake till it's real warm

take a hair dryer and stick it in the intake till it's real warmIMO,kinda hard to find hair dryers on the rigs me thinks:)

Fuel filter will fit one way only,look for the wide tab on filter and housing.

I can get the filter to fit in the tabs but it will not seat properly to screw the cap back on without leaking. Stupid Canadian Tire parts. I will try a filter from GM when I get home.

Do you get smoke when trying to start.?

Yep white smoke while it's cranking.

turn key on and check for power on the pass side big stud on glow controller.dr side stud is allways hot.You can momenterely bypass it if the controller is toast to get it started,May need a helper to do that.

Can you explain further?

It should fire up with 5 working glowers.

I only tested 5 out of the 8 glows. 2 out of the 5 I tested weren't working. I couldn't get to or even see the other 3.

Check fuel press at the T-valve,check for air at the fuel filter bleed plug.

Fuel coming out of T-valve hose when opened and key on. Same as fuel filter bleeder.

To me it sounds like fuel could be bleeding back as well.

Could there possibly be air in my fuel lines. How would I bleed it out. Also to note, there is always a lot of vaccum in my tank when I open the gas cap.

I do have access to a steam line. What are your opinions on applying steam to these engines?

How about a heat gun?

In the cold, you need most of the glow plugs. May want to change (at the least) the 4 on the driver side with Bosch Duraterms.

All the fuel filter, comes out from the same mfg. There is one slot that is bigger and it has to push down. Crack open the bleeder valve at the top so air can escape when you push it down. Make sure it does not wiggle before you put the ring on. Once you put the ring and you did not seat it properly, the rubber seal is gone. Means that you have to get a new one.

Fuel filter will fit one way only,look for the wide tab on filter and housing.

I can get the filter to fit in the tabs but it will not seat properly to screw the cap back on without leaking. Stupid Canadian Tire parts. I will try a filter from GM when I get home.

Do you get smoke when trying to start.?

Yep white smoke while it's cranking.


turn key on and check for power on the pass side big stud on glow controller.dr side stud is allways hot.You can momenterely bypass it if the controller is toast to get it started,May need a helper to do that.

Can you explain further?

It should fire up with 5 working glowers.

I only tested 5 out of the 8 glows. 2 out of the 5 I tested weren't working. I couldn't get to or even see the other 3.

Check fuel press at the T-valve,check for air at the fuel filter bleed plug.

Fuel coming out of T-valve hose when opened and key on. Same as fuel filter bleeder.

To me it sounds like fuel could be bleeding back as well.

Could there possibly be air in my fuel lines. How would I bleed it out. Also to note, there is always a lot of vaccum in my tank when I open the gas cap.There are two 1/4 studs with thicker wires on the glow plug controller,dr side wire is red and has batt power,other stud wire is green and goes to the glow plugs, You can temp jump these 2 studs to get batt power to the glowers if the controller is shot.
you can also test for power at each glow plug wire with key on for the duration of the cycle if the controller works.Not all plugs are easy accessable as you noticed.
2 known working out of 8 wont fire the engine.

Like JMJnet said replace at least the dr side ones(If you got them on hand?)

Leave the gas cap loose to get rid of the vac,Vacuum causes hard or no start as well.Altough the smoke suggest there is enough fuel at the injectors.

If you got acces to a herman nelson heater,use that to heat he engine or do what AK suggested.

I know start fluid is highly discouraged by members of this board,but i use it if i have to.
So, last resort is start fluid. open the airfilter lid and give 1 or 2 sec of spray while cranking,dont overdo it.DO NOT USE GLOWERS,DISCONNECT THE GLOW CONTROLLER GREEN WIRE BEFORE YOU USE THE START FLUID TO PREVENT ENGINE DAMAGE.

Oh ya, if you can get to the 5th one which is probably the front on the passenger side, change it also. That way you get 5 working GP for sure out of 8.

Otherwise you have 5 bad GP out of 8, assuming the 3 not tested are bad also.

Also, get either Bosch Duraterms (best) or AC Delco 60G (next to the best) GP.

Changine the GP Controller/Relay (same unit) is not too bad either since it is on the driver side. It is only a harmess connector on the back and two battery nuts holding battery cable and one or two bolt (can't recall) holding it down.

Oh ya, if you can get to the 5th one which is probably the front on the passenger side, change it also. That way you get 5 working GP for sure out of 8.

Otherwise you have 5 bad GP out of 8, assuming the 3 not tested are bad also.

Also, get either Bosch Duraterms (best) or AC Delco 60G (next to the best) GP.

Changine the GP Controller/Relay (same unit) is not too bad either since it is on the driver side. It is only a harmess connector on the back and two battery nuts holding battery cable and one or two bolt (can't recall) holding it down.


Warmed up to -7 today and I had the block heater, the inline heater and the batt warmers plugged in and the truck fired on the second try. F'n sweet! Thanks to everyone for all the help, this site rocks!

Any opinions on the "Instant Heat" glows? I am definitely gonna replace the whole set when I get home.

Glad to hear your truck started. Just a quick OT question. I have been having cold start troubles with mine also. I have a tank heater I want to install but wasn't sure how to as there is no accessable block plug. Is your tank heater pulling from the heater core return and discharging into the radiator? How well does that work? Thanks.

Steve

Glad to hear your truck started. Just a quick OT question. I have been having cold start troubles with mine also. I have a tank heater I want to install but wasn't sure how to as there is no accessable block plug. Is your tank heater pulling from the heater core return and discharging into the radiator? How well does that work? Thanks.

Steve


It is pulling from the heater core return and circulating through the rad then out the upper rad hose. The heater itself gets too hot to touch (I had to move the battery closer to the fender so it wasn't touching) but it actually works as a batt warmer too. The upper rad hose also feels hot and I can feel warmth coming from the rad. Works awesome - best investment I made for winter (other than glowers). The heater should have its own plug.

Thanks for the response. I may throw mine in today as it looks to be a simple install. Have you felt your lower hose to see if hot coolant is making it into the block?

Steve

You need to make sure that the old seal comes off with the old fuel filter, this is a common problem where you don't know that it is left behind and when you put the new filter on there are 2 seals and it leaks.

Yep the lower hose feels warm too. Very simple install - done in about 1/2 half hour.

Sweet, thanks.

Steve

Don't buy the insta heats

Don't buy the insta heats

What's wrong with them? Do they burn out too fast? I don't mind spending a little more for glowers that I don't have to replace every year but I need this truck to start every time. What would you recommend?

pieces of crap been there done that hard to get warranty etc bosch duraterm or ac60gs

It was about -15C this morning and my 6.5 barely started. Also, it was not plugged in. Is this normal or not? I changed all 8 of the glow plugs TWICE last winter, plus the controller TWICE. If the glow plugs are shot again, I'm gonna be pissed. Maybe it's normal for a 6.5 to have trouble starting in that cold of weather though? It sits in the heated garage 99% of the time, so I have a hard time telling.

what glows are you using?

AC Delco I believe. Last time I had problems I took it to a diesel shop here and they put all new plugs in and a new controller. Ran perfect after that, but it's giving me problems AGAIN. I dunno how I could be going through glow plugs so fast. Could bad grounds cause it maybe?

I'd pull one and check what they put in

Which side is the easiest to pull again? I remember some are a pain in the ass to get to.

drivers side glows are the easiest to get to. No turbo, ac or heater lines in the way.

Steve