With the problems people are seeing with the adaptive learning of the tcm(myself included) and the success of the co-pilot, do any of the other upgrade companys have anything in the works. At $1100 smackers, it would be nice to have some competition to help bring down the prices.

Rob

A few months ago, there were some rumors flying about a new type of TCM control. Now, as of late, I haven't heard anything new.

I agee it would be nice to have another product to compete with the co-pilot. Even if it doesn't bring down prices that much, it is still always nice to have more than one option.

ATS has a complete TCM replacement in the works. It'll allow custom programming of quite a few Allison variables via a laptop and serial cable. It's not going to be cheap but they said it'll be ready later this summer. It's already in testing on a couple trucks from what I understand.

http://www.atsdiesel.com/ATSWebsite/ProductsGM/PGControl.asp

Why is it that ATS seems to be the only company trying to push things to the next level. They were the first and only ones to do anything to the TCM, then first with not one, but two turbos, first to modify the CP3, now they are going to be the first to replace the TCM with something aftermarket.

I wish other vendors would step up to the plate with some competition. As of right now ATS has the market cornered.

i'm sure some of it boils down to $. obvioulsy there aren't thousands of people that are willing to throw that much money at their trucks. i'm sure companies need to decide if it will be viable or just fun :)

because ATS is serious about Duramax performance

I heard the price won't be THAT bad on the ATS Standalone TCM.

Since it's already being used on other trannys, it is just a matter of adapting it to the Allison.

PS - It is not a replacement for the Copilot from what I'm told. You would run both unless you wanted to reprogram your truck a lot.

Whatever the case is, it looks like it's here already! Check out the ATS website.

I called about it yesterday. He said it will be priced a little higher than the co-pilot. As Sp33d said, it will be released towards the end of summer.

There would be lots of intrest in my opinion.....in fact I may go with a full ATS tranny next year. It seems like the extra control over the tranny proves useful at the track from what I have read. Don't get me wrong.....I love my suncoast....maybe I need to look into what they have in the next step up......decisions decisions decisions.....

Just add a co-pilot to your Suncoast. I know Mike L. has done a few like this and I believe Eric has as well.

Its already been hit on, but the cost to R&D things like this is huge and the manpower required is great.

Like Tomac said, ATS is determined to be a leader in the Dmax performance market.

Back on topic, the co-pilot will work with a SC trans with little or no changes needed.

I'll confirm that this weekend.............if I get the Co-Pilot today............;)

I was told it really quickens up the SUNCOAST shifts.........and I have an ATS STAGE V local for comparison now...........:cool:

I am still wondering about the TRANSGO~HOT ROD Boost valve with the "orange" 190 psi spring being enough line pressure..................OH WELL.............:rolleyes:

If I still don't like the shifts..............out the tranny comes...........:eek:
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T):h NY
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the co-pilot will work with a SC trans with little or no changes needed.

Hate to be the spoiler but .................................... Since everyone is pushing Suncoast WHY should it need anything ? Adding a Co-pilot is a change.I guess your implying the sUNCOAST IS OR HAS LAZY SHIFTS! :exactly:

I'm all about trying different things. I went the trans route I went because I wanted to find out for myself if a low buget angle would work. I guess it's easier just putting in a $5500.00 trans and being done with it, guess I'm a glutten for punishment...but

transgo.......300.00
converter...1300.00
co=pilot.....1100.00

total........$2700.00

Rob

Hate to be the spoiler but .................................... Since everyone is pushing Suncoast WHY should it need anything ? Adding a Co-pilot is a change.I guess your implying the sUNCOAST IS OR HAS LAZY SHIFTS! :exactly:

you know all aftermarket kits do nothing for the tcm learning mackin, run your ats with the copilot off and no tune for a while then reload, see how she shifts.I mean how many guys run ats without the copilot, if it didn't need anything why would you even have a copilot option.... cause its there when you need it, thats why, no matter whos kit its on.

Here we go again. Pretty soon Mac, Me, Tony and diesel Dragon should be able to test all the different configurations between the ATS the Suncoast, with and without the co-pilot on each truck. I think the results should be pretty interesting.:exactly:

you know all aftermarket kits do nothing for the tcm learning mackin, run your ats with the copilot off and no tune for a while then reload, see how she shifts.I mean how many guys run ats without the copilot, if it didn't need anything why would you even have a copilot option.... cause its there when you need it, thats why, no matter whos kit its on.

Must be me but after 3 tanks a fuel and nearly 800 miles driving still seems to be shifting clean and fast.Surely there has been better than 60 up shifts of every gear.

Co-Pilot,what's that? I don't use it,only when I really want to rock! I drive one way with one setting! That's the SAME way I drove the truck with the Suncoast,it acquired occasional lazy shifts.I don't play around with lower settings

Believe it or not there is a big difference IMO in the two transmissions "out of the box" offered by the two main companies.

Go for a ride in a FULL ATS transmission equipped truck.That's all I can suggest.Truck feels faster there before I concur it is handling the power better.Seems to leave harder and definitely loads harder.The smoke is outrageous,starts to clean up at 30 LBS of boost.Tony who is the only lucky one so far to witness this besides my brother in-law who nearly crapped himself yesterday!I can get pictures of a near T-pole hit going into a 360 spin and driving out of it! Quick brake spool and,Four gears of rolling smoke could been five if it weren't for me being able to keep it straight! :eek:

Awesome to say the least,that was with the Co-pilot!

Take it for what it's worth ,just reporting my findings so far,So far so good. Very pleased.The ATS transmission REALLY compliments the TTS program I have. :)

Pictures Smoooooooooke :driver: :devilfing

Suncoast is hard to beat for the almighty $$

I have yet to install a SC in somebody's truck and have them not happy with the shift quality overall. Sure, some want to hot rod it or whatever, thats fine, the trans will take it. You want to click off the shifts and shave precious time? The co-pilot will do it hands down, no arguement from me.

Most of the trucks I have installed kits in are daily drivers, hence they like the "forget it" part of the trans, no extra boxes in the truck, electronics to fail, extra wiring, something else to turn on etc.

Dont get me wrong, a full ATS or a kit ATS I build will shift great, but take the co-pilot out of the equation and its really not much better IMO then a SC. I'll continue to install both and add co-pilots to both per customer requests....

Line pressure will fill gaps.........

Suncoast is hard to beat for the almighty $$

I have yet to install a SC in somebody's truck and have them not happy with the shift quality overall. Sure, some want to hot rod it or whatever, thats fine, the trans will take it. You want to click off the shifts and shave precious time? The co-pilot will do it hands down, no arguement from me.

Most of the trucks I have installed kits in are daily drivers, hence they like the "forget it" part of the trans, no extra boxes in the truck, electronics to fail, extra wiring, something else to turn on etc.

Dont get me wrong, a full ATS or a kit ATS I build will shift great, but take the co-pilot out of the equation and its really not much better IMO then a SC. I'll continue to install both and add co-pilots to both per customer requests....

Line pressure will fill gaps.........

"not much better" But it's better,out of the "box" Right Eric?

So in other words you need to build a Suncoast like a ATS ;)

Be happy with your copy cats! :D

so how much will a co pilot take off a 1/4 mile on a lasy suncoast level 4??

so how much will a co pilot take off a 1/4 mile on a lasy suncoast level 4??


It's been posted somewhere in the 3 tenths range,your results could vary,perhaps better.Means alot if your stuck at 13.1 ;)

It's been posted somewhere in the 3 tenths range,your results could vary,perhaps better.Means alot if your stuck at 13.1 ;):exactly: :funnypost

Eric, thanks for the informative post.

Mackin, thanks for turning another thread into a ats chest thumping, suncoast bashing thread.

I'm just looking for non-bias info, and thought the people here on this great site might know of different options, or the reasons there aren't any.

Rob

I dont think you will see 3 tenths with a co pilot on a 1/2 assed trained trans on fuel that shift 1/2 way deccent. JMO

It does help dont get me wrong. Worth the grand or so??? I'm still undecided. I'm not convinced that the co pilot is the cure all magic wonder widget that fixes all but I'm still playing;)

It might be worth 3 tenths to an untrained truck. But I believe Buck or Jess? ran a 11.29 on a SC V, I doubt if they had a co-pilot they would have seen 10's.

grabed a 13.2 the other night, but had a weak 2-3 shift, ussally is clean, thanks again

Well Hurry up and figure it out Phil!! So I know what I need to get!! I guess there wasn't to much difference saturday eh?? Or was there..........???:rolleyes:

Keep us informed.

Off fuel not much, on spray it cleaned up the shifts quite a bit. Before if I make a few passes on spray it really flakes out the TCM and is nasty. Could the TCM finnaly learn to the spray??? I still have quite a bit more testing to do. I only made 3 passes on spray. I have a bunch of calls to make and things to play with. Maybe I spoke too soon :o:

It wasnt really an apples to apples compro of fuel passes. Wasnt same day, same conditions ect. But our first DHRA event compared to this one I was only a tick faster(definatly not .3) . Track prep was great this sat:ro) and 60's were consistently a shade faster but it was freaking HOT sat too(was warm the first one but this one it was HOT)

I think there is a fresh pot of STFU brewing.....I better go have a cup before I start a war:eek: Especially since I dont have all the info and I havent made a complete decision yet.:o: Dont listen to me(like you guys ever do:p: ) dissregard anything that may have sounded like testing results. Its still a work in progress.;)

Eric, thanks for the informative post.

Mackin, thanks for turning another thread into a ats chest thumping, suncoast bashing thread.

I'm just looking for non-bias info, and thought the people here on this great site might know of different options, or the reasons there aren't any.

Rob

:iamwithst

I have my truck dialed in so I will make a few runs with the CO-PILOT turned off...........then I will repeat the runs with it turned on and then in drag-race mode.........:D

Again, I will post any results whether positive or negative..........;)

As far as Mackin supposedly thumping his chest......:rolleyes: ......

I personally have nothing to gain or lose, MY SC-III is holding up just fine............sometimes the shifts are less than desireable.......but it does work good overall, if not I would not have ran a 13.09 with a 1.75/60 footer.

Do I think I will knock some ET off my 1/4 mile with the Co-Pilot........yup I do...........:eek:

So then,

I have driven his....Mac's truck....with the SC-V and now with the ATS V..........there is a difference..........night and day between the two even without the Co-Pilot turned on........with it turned on there is NO COMPARISON.........:cool:

Sorry...........

T:o: NY

It might be worth 3 tenths to an untrained truck. But I believe Buck or Jess? ran a 11.29 on a SC V, I doubt if they had a co-pilot they would have seen 10's. I am almost positive they run one.

You will probably see around .1 difference with co-pilot on to co-pilot off with a suncoast. That seems to be the average. So is .1 worth $1,000? That might be the most expensive mod per return. When you have nothing else to buy to make you go faster..........maybe worth it. But $1K buys an awful lot of nitrous..........:confuzeld

.........So, no spring changes when Modding a SC for the Co-Pilot, eh?

Eric, you can't answer this one, it's for Tony.

.........So, no spring changes when Modding a SC for the Co-Pilot, eh?


Eric, you cannot answer this one, it's for Tony.

.........So, no spring changes when Modding a SC for the Co-Pilot, eh?


Eric, you cannot answer this one, it's for Tony.

I am adding the Co-Pilot sooner than I expected......:D .....I was going to pull the tranny to swap to the ATS Spring/ Boost Valve at the same time inspect it as well and also a possible TC change...........still undecided on the TC......

However I saw no point in waiting another six weeks running without the Co-Pilot in case I do not have the time to get back into the tranny for any other upgrades.

So I am adding the Co-Pilot now and then I will be able to get a feel for how it acts with the transgo boost valve and lower overall line pressure..........as ATS recommends changing the spring to there spring for the Co-Pilot to work to it's fullest...........as Eric said pressure fills in the gaps.

T;) NY
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Sounds GREAT! Let us know when ya get it in and how it acts.

With the problems people are seeing with the adaptive learning of the tcm(myself included) and the success of the co-pilot, do any of the other upgrade companys have anything in the works. At $1100 smackers, it would be nice to have some competition to help bring down the prices.

Rob



BD (http://www.bd-power.com/gmc/product.php?pn=BD%20Allison%20Shift%20Strategy&tt=gmc) has something.Try it,good luck and give us a report.Otherwise you could buy a Tech II and start over and over and over if "your" having issues.Key is to drive one power and consistant with a good program IMO.


Mackin, thanks for turning another thread into a ats chest thumping, suncoast bashing thread.

Wasn't my intent,sorry you felt offended

As much as I dont want to say it for fear of starting another argument. .....

I dont think the comparo between Mac's SC V and the current ATS is accurate. Remember, it was a hurt duckling....even if it just recently failed, how long was it getting weak? Lots of changes in a SC kit since the 18+ months that the trans was last touched internally. Changes in ATS as well, dont think for a second that either company is sitting back thinking what they have now is good enough....

As much as I dont want to say it for fear of starting another argument. .....

I dont think the comparo between Mac's SC V and the current ATS is accurate. Remember, it was a hurt duckling....even if it just recently failed, how long was it getting weak?

No argument but I respectfully disagree.Remember Eric that I had what was previously to the stage V to compare which is near at Suncoast III today. I know EXACTLY when the quick down hill slide occurred,I pay attention and are hardly new at this.



Lots of changes in a SC kit since the 18+ months that the trans was last touched internally. Changes in ATS as well, don't think for a second that either company is sitting back thinking what they have now is good enough....

You are so right,unfortunately for me a month or so back.

I can recall quite vividly that Suncoast wouldn't EVEN consider doing what ATS is doing with line pressure today what they've,ATS, had done first!

Flattering at best,for closing the gap.Just sticking to the facts.I have seen many R&D posts from some camps ;)

Black,Kettle,pot,dunno.You tell me

The major issues with raised line pressures are more wear and tear on the pump, converter ballooning and more heat generated to make the additional pressure. It takes more Hp from the engine to make additional pressure as well. So the trick is to run the pressure as low as you can while still holding. This is why most modern transmissions have variable line pressure today. The computer raises the pressure when necessary and lowers when not necessary. Allison chose not to do this and run fixed pressures of 250 with TCC unlocked and 150 with TCC locked. The Transgo shift valve raises the pressure of the locked TCC pressure to 170 or 190 depending on which spring you install with it. Since Suncoast uses the Transgo parts they could be running either locked pressure. I have been told ATS runs 310 - 330 psi all the time, so we will have to see if there is any failures at these pressures in time but I do know they do run hotter than a normal transmission. Install a Mike L. cooler to solve the higher heat and then we will have to wait and see what happens with high pressure. I myself do not like the high pressure number all the time and feel there is a better way. :D

We shall soon see......but how soon Dr. Evil?