Took a roadtrip this weekend, 700 mile roundtrip and was cruising up around 2200-2400 RPM on the freeway, just wondering, is there anyway we could get a 6th gear to bring those highway RPM'sdown a bit?

makes you wonder if the newer 6sp ally will bolt up or if they are going to change the monting patern on the case. Does gear vendors have a set up for the ally?

My understanding is that the sixth gear has been in the allison since '01. '06 will be the first year that it is being enabled. I hope that the trans. mods and programing to get 6th working, are easy and inexpensive.

It'll be great when unloaded, the question is how useful 6th will be when towing. I suppose GM will limit HP in 1st, 5th and 6th gear.

My understanding is that the sixth gear has been in the allison since '01. '06 will be the first year that it is being enabled. I hope that the trans. mods and programing to get 6th working, are easy and inexpensive.

Please indulge on how this is possible????

My understanding is that the sixth gear has been in the allison since '01. '06 will be the first year that it is being enabled. I hope that the trans. mods and programing to get 6th working, are easy and inexpensive.

That may be a true statement... At work on our large Allison’s (Can't remember what type of the top of my head) that are behind Cummins M11's we have 5 speeds and 6 speeds. The Trans its self is the same just the ECM is deferent. If you swap out a 5-speed ECM with a 6 Speed ECM it will run though 6 speeds now, I have tryed it myself. 6th gear would still be the same as 5th is now it’s not a higher Overdrive just another gear in-between the other gears.

Yes it a higher OD .61 and it has been there all along it has also been hinted that the current Ally will have mods for the sixth.

The Medium Duty truck on order is the Same Spec HS3000 6 speed as the 5 speed.

Programming changes it from a 5 to a 6 speed

Now there are 2 overdrives. a .71 and now a .64

Yes it a higher OD .61 and it has been there all along it has also been hinted that the current Ally will have mods for the sixth.


lets hope its soon, very soon, i want it.

So I'm assuming no way to get it right now? Who is developing the mod?

This is good reading. ):h

I am working on a 6 and 7 speed conversion....

Prices should start in the 4k range installed. Will require new fluid

Somehow, you getting a kick out of this doesn't surprise me Mike.):h

This is good reading. ):h

Stick around a while we'll teach you amateurs something yet.:D


















Never mind that's so wrong that's not even funny come on Mike tell us how it is.

I am working on a 6 and 7 speed conversion....

Prices should start in the 4k range installed. Will require new fluid


That’s nothing I used some spare Legos to make it in to eight speed and that's good for unlimited HP/TQ.:ro)

Please indulge on how this is possible????

Posts by LanduytG give the impression that he knows what is required to accomplish the 6th gear enable on existing trucks, but he won't say yet. I think it was MikeL that posted about the apply of C2 and C4 to get 6th.

Impatiently waiting.....................

You guys remember D-Day from the movie Animal House?

When they build the car for the homecoming parade he yells, "Raaaaaaaaaaaaming Speeeeeeeeeeeed!"

That's what the 5-6 shift into the "big hole" should be like--a regular hyper drive!

I can't imagine it will be only a programming change--gonna have to be hard parts involved. Patience, Grasshoppers.

That’s nothing I used some spare Legos to make it in to eight speed and that's good for unlimited HP/TQ.:ro)

And I've found the way to get you that unlimited HP/TQ..........:D

well, my mechanic at the the local chevy house said these are definately 5 speed trannys, no hidden gear, so we shall see......

Mike L.
laughing with us? laughing at us?

I guess I'm not the only one chomping at the bit for the "Turn your 5 speed Allison into a 6 Speed" mod.... Can't wait.

I know of two easy ways to get the 6 speed tranny.

1. buy a ZF handshaker transmission and install it.

2. go to your dealer and trade your 01-05 for a new 06 Allison 6speed.

Not being a smartass here, just that I doubt there's a quick cheap fix to make these 6 speeds without some mechanical changes. I doubt that the new trans will just bolt up(especially not an LB7). It's great to dream, but I doubt that it'll be a simple or easy task. Your best bet to lower your RPM's is drive slower, or re-gear your differentials.

I'd love to see a mod, but I doubt that I will.

I know of two easy ways to get the 6 speed tranny.

1. buy a ZF handshaker transmission and install it.

l.

where do you get one of those? how much?

That's the manual he is talking about get it at your stealer.

That's the manual he is talking about get it at your stealer.

screw that, the only thing i shift daily is the one i get paid to shift......

Fire Trucks are all shiped with the allison 3060 and 4060 trans. Both are 6 speeds but are sold under a 5 speed lable. This keeps the speeds of the trucks under 75 mph. But we can take the pro-link and enable the 6th gear. All you had to do was push the mode button on the touch pad. Im not saying that the 1000 has the same set up but I have seen it in the past on the larger trannys

makes you wonder if the newer 6sp ally will bolt up or if they are going to change the monting patern on the case. Does gear vendors have a set up for the ally?

As of two months ago the answer is NO. I think I'll call them monday morning and ask again. As soon as they have one I'm buying it probably around $4500.00 installed. Bright side is you can drive down the freeway at nearly 120 MPH no problem. RPM's at 80MPH would be pretty low as well. I don't think I would even split a gear.

Bright side is you can drive down the freeway at nearly 120 MPH no problem.

:rockit:

NO one here would go that fast its not safe right.
;)

I'M SUCH A BAD INFLUENCE!!! No Diesel Place for me for 1 hour):h

NO one here would go that fast its not safe right.
;)

only on the freeway..........i run around dallas all the time at 90, feel thats my "comfort zone" while driving......

you have to run around ddallas at 90 just to keep up with the flow or get ran over!!! They ought to rename the 635 to the speedway!!!

I hope they make it so we can bolt and go, if not I am sure somebody will make an adapter kit for it.

So I seriously have a 6th gear in my allison that im not using?

So I seriously have a 6th gear in my allison that im not using?

After all the talk on this thread I'm wondering that myself, anyone here no for sure...................SWH...:confused:

The gearing is there but not the hydraulics or electronic controls. Once the transmission is released to the public all questions can be answered.

Talked to a Allison service rep. He thought that the programing would have to be updated to get the 6th gear. He also said Allison will not upgrade it for you because GM does all the warranty work on GM vehicles. Maybe GM can be convinced to update the programing?

I would guess that the only option will be an aftermarket one.

I would guess that the only option will be an aftermarket one.

With any kind of luck you will be able to add the parts internally to the transmission, add a few wires perhaps and change out the TCM for one with new software. We won't know until someone offers it to us.

Nobody seems to care what the rear shaft output speed will be. This could be a danger to occupants inside the truck. Allison thinks so. Which one of the trans guys is willing to take on a law suit if something happens? The geartrain in the new Ally will be changed to guard against blow up with new pitch to the gears and other things. This whole idea needs study and if it is possible, it will not be cheap. I also believe that without a triple converter this whole idea is useless.
mike

Gear Vendors claims they are working on a unit for 4x4 Allisons. No intention of doing one for 2WD's.

You cannot reduce your rear axle ratio. You must replace the axle instead. After a month of inquiries, all answers have been the AAM 1150 does not have a gear lower than 3.73. AAM refuses to answer themselves though.

Nobody seems to care what the rear shaft output speed will be. This could be a danger to occupants inside the truck. Allison thinks so. Which one of the trans guys is willing to take on a law suit if something happens? The geartrain in the new Ally will be changed to guard against blow up with new pitch to the gears and other things. This whole idea needs study and if it is possible, it will not be cheap. I also believe that without a triple converter this whole idea is useless.
mike

Maybe I'm just stupid, but wouldn't the output shaft speed be the same at, say, 70mph, weather the gear ratio was .71:1 or .61:1, just the ENGINE speed would be different? I can see this being an issue if you change the gear ratio BEHIND the output shaft (I should know; I need a new driveshaft before I can put 3.73's or 4.10's in my Cougar because the stock driveshaft can't safely rotate at the speeds created by 3.73's or 4.10's), but as long as the gear BEHIND the shaft is the same, the output shaft speed would be the same at a given speed no matter what the gear ratio is in FRONT of the shaft.

Maybe I'm just stupid, but wouldn't the output shaft speed be the same at, say, 70mph, weather the gear ratio was .71:1 or .61:1, just the ENGINE speed would be different? I can see this being an issue if you change the gear ratio BEHIND the output shaft (I should know; I need a new driveshaft before I can put 3.73's or 4.10's in my Cougar because the stock driveshaft can't safely rotate at the speeds created by 3.73's or 4.10's), but as long as the gear BEHIND the shaft is the same, the output shaft speed would be the same at a given speed no matter what the gear ratio is in FRONT of the shaft.

Unless you increase the speed limiter. Say for example you now had enough gear and power to run 150mph. Then your ouput speed would be double what it is at 75mph. If you are already pushing the limites at 90mph, 150 could be big trouble.

Unless you increase the speed limiter. Say for example you now had enough gear and power to run 150mph. Then your ouput speed would be double what it is at 75mph. If you are already pushing the limites at 90mph, 150 could be big trouble.

Right.... so as far as enabling the 6th gear, I doubt it would put any more stresses on the parts of the Allison (at least not the output shaft) at normal speeds. It was said somewhere that the change of the gear angle was to reduce gear whine.

I also believe that without a triple converter this whole idea is useless.
mike

Mike, is this because of too much leverage and possible converter slip with a stock unit?

If that is the case, is it safe to assume they will be installing a better "stock" converter in the new 6 speed Alli?

I take back what I said about rear geartrain speed. I don't think it will be an issue till after 125 NPH.

bump & grind... er wait that's for the handshakers ):h

I mean bump for more info, any additional intel yet? Just wantin to know if I got short changed a gear on my alli :muahaha:

I take back what I said about rear geartrain speed. I don't think it will be an issue till after 125 NPH.

I had Dmaxallitech's truck over 135mph on the way back from eating at IRP, either the tach was wrong or he has the 6 or 7 speed working.

























:joke:

thats normal, ive had mine pegged and its normal......

How 'bout that 6 speed though? Any intel yet?? Now that I've changed jobs and am not pullin anywhere near as much as I used to this beautiful truck has become a true daily driver. I'd sure love to get the R's down at freeway speeds to get the MPG's up.

id pay a million dollars to the person who can find out how to "unlock" 6th gear in our Allisons!! Maybe Suncoast or ATS would have some thoughts??? Ive heard the it technically is possible...i think a combo of the C2 and C4 clutch packs?? Although a new TCM and possibly some new solenoid valve bodies would may be needed... Does the first member who gets an '06 wanna tear down their tranny for everyone!?!?

---Ben

id pay a million dollars to the person who can find out how to "unlock" 6th gear in our Allisons!!
---Ben
Wow man, a million bucks!!! Dang I could just buy an 06 for that much ):h
but in all seriousness (is that even a word?) who wouldn't slap down a few thousand for 6th gear, maybe as part of an improved SC lvl III or so...

... whoa...

.... ok I'm waking up from that dream...

you know, that would just pi$$ me off knowing that i have a 6th gear in my truck and not even am allowed to use it. i hope someone can validate that fact if it truely does exist or not, and how to engage that sweet puppy....
i say SCREW THOSE OIL BA$TARD$ !!!

Sixth gear is in the trans already. Diesel Tech and I have all the info. The quest begins.

It's really pretty easy. Another bypass tube, and a software change is all you need. I rode in one of the pilots at ATD a few years ago.

The change in helix angle on the geartrain was to reduce noise.

The real worry is P3 planetary speed not driveline speed. It spins roughly double the output speed. Wouldn't be much fun to have a 20 lb P3 planetary assembly coming apart at 6000+ RPM.

PM me if you need some details on the 6 speed stuff. You won't be able to get anywhere without a 6 speed cal, and unfortunately the MY'06 TCM (4th Gen) and valve body are NOT backwards compatible.

I've got a Gen IV controls class tomorrow. I'll let you know what's coming down the pipe.

Mike, Mike--he's our man, if he can't do it no one can!

I like the idea of hyper-drive! :)

I. You won't be able to get anywhere without a 6 speed cal, and unfortunately the MY'06 TCM (4th Gen) and valve body are NOT backwards compatible.

I've got a Gen IV controls class tomorrow. I'll let you know what's coming down the pipe.

What exactly do you mean by the TCM not being backwards compatible? Does that mean the whole thing (converting to a 6-speed) is NOT possible? Or just that you actually have to get a new TCM and valve body... I assume a new TCM is around 500$ or so (just a guess) but how much for a MY 2006 valve body? Thanks for all the info, let us know how the class goes!!!

---Ben

I keep getting ready to get all excited about the answer finally being laid out here for us only to be disappointed with only another piece of the puzzle brought out. When the HECK are we gonna know what it's gonna take? Sorry for being so impatient...

I like the gear vendor ideal. I e-mailed them about a year ago, to inquire about a unit for the allison.

Hopefully they are working on it.

I know I would like to see 20-23mpg in my truck, how about the rest of you guys.

The suspense is killing me. SOMEBODY has the answer. C'mon somebody, spill your guts. :eek:

Nobody has the answer yet. As far as how long? probably 2 years if your lucky.
mike

Brayden said it would require a new TCM... Would the Allison TCM have to be "Married" to the ECM and/or the rest of the computers in the truck, or would it be "plug and play" since it's an "Allison" computer, not "GM/Delphi"?

The other thing that would be usefull to add, maybe required, is the new gear selector with the additional buttons (Assuming they actually put the buttons on the lever).

ETA: 2 years or go find a wrecked 2006 about 6 months after the 6-speed is released and pull the TCM/Transmission....

So basically im better off just doing my tranny now (Suncoast III or IV) than waiting to see what happends with the potential of adding a sixth gear... If, say, I did my tranny now and then a year or 2 down the road, someone gets the exact upgrade procedure all figured out (Mike L!!), would I have just wasted a bunch of money? Or would the "sixth gear mod" be able to just be added on top of the Suncoast...because theres really not that many different parts...the main change being a new TCM.

---Ben

BTW...good question, Cougar! That would be a pain if the new TCM had to be married with our current ECM's and BCM's...

I would be happy enough with just having the sixth gear "unlocked"...but that would be TOO COOL if we could get the "manumatic" buttons and traction control all hooked up and operating as well!!!!!! Does anyone know right now if the new 6-speed Allison will bolt right up to our LLY's (and LB7's)??? Or is it a different bell housing/bolt pattern...grrr im hoping not the latter!!

---Ben

Same tranny so it's the same bell housing.

but that would be TOO COOL if we could get the "manumatic" buttons and traction control all hooked up and operating as well---Ben

We can do the same thing with a TCM reflash and a 'Touchdrive' Panel and encoder motor from Arens Controls.

I have looked into that... but it is Expen$ive as H!

you could do a bigger turbocharger or twins for what they want for that kit!:eek:

That arens shifter is neat, but not what you need for the 6 speed.

The 4th gen valve body doesn't work with the old TCM. There is a new TCM that is common between the 1000/2000/3000/4000 series trannies.

If you really want to get the 6 speed without going to a MY'06 truck is to :

Add a bypass tube in the valve body to hydraulically enable it, and then get a 6 speed calibration.

Now there lies the problem. There are no 6 speed 1000 series PRODUCTION calibrations available.

Now,

In theory you could swing your older 1000 series for a Gen IV, and swap the TCM out for the new style, and then interface the new TCM wiring in with the vehicle wiring, and you'd be in. Assuming all the controllers would talk over the CAN backbone and J1850 bus in the same manner.

Oh, and as far as whether or not to build your trans now or later. Go ahead and do it, because there wouldn't be any difference as far as hardparts go.

Hope this helps,

Brayden

Ahhh thanks Brayden...just the info I needed!! Now the million dollar question is how hard will it be to get the Generation IV TCM to work with the older tranny... There are no communication/BCM/data bus changes for 2006 that I know of (I assume the GMT-900's will all be CAN-BUS/GMLAN, no Class II) so technically I would think it would work, although Im no tranny expert, esp with the big Ally. Would that new TCM also enable the traction control that is coming on 2006? Not that I really care about it that much...but it would be cool to get a Escalade/Denali Stabilitrak button and wire it up to that! Wow im getting way ahead of myself...

---Ben

Traction control? What are they going to use to implement it? Bosch's ASR?

That will require inputs from the ABS Sensors on the wheels..... and even more defuelling! to cut power!

Yup, I think it was in the 2006 Allison .pdf brocheur (sp) that i read that...didnt say what kind of system it was going to be.

--Ben

It will be cheaper to buy another truck.

Who needs a 6 speed ??????? heck they already have one if you don't mind rowing gears.........

In 5th at 110+ mph in a 7200 lb brick is fast enough...........without a 6th gear........

I'll keep is simple and I don't think there is enough need for it in my case............

Have fun........

Juice, you don't need the ABS inputs from the wheel sensors. All that info is Mux'd over the J1939 Can 1, and J1939 Can 2 (GMLAN) just waiting to be plucked out. :)

The rumor continues. At one of the fair pulls lastnight, I was told by a diesel mechanic that yes, it is possible to change the config (electronically) in the Ally to get "6" speeds.

He didnt have all the info, which tells me, its a rumor floating around.

he thought it was a program change and splicing some wires.

We'll see as time passes.

If you want more speeds, change the rear end out with a 2 speed axle ;)

Juice, you don't need the ABS inputs from the wheel sensors. All that info is Mux'd over the J1939 Can 1, and J1939 Can 2 (GMLAN) just waiting to be plucked out. :)

Well the ASR implementation from Bosch is still comparing APP % to measured wheel speed via the ABS tone ring; then dialling back fuel on a diesel i would imagine... on the gassers they retard timing and throttle if i recall.

That is the information that becomes part of the CAN. If the ABS was not there to monitor speed/slip there would be no ASR. If indeed the system will be bosch based.

As well if GM wanted we could also then (very easily) have a DSP Dynamic stability program included. But that system is best realized on an AWD/FWD or RWD vehicle.... not on one that is 'part time 4x4'

The new trucks sure sound cool!:ro)

Hmmmm I guess it could be possible but I think it'd be a while before we see Stabilitrak on the HD's...just like it took an extra 6 years for the HD's to get airbags. It'd be pretty cool tho!! And i guess it would work becuase our trucks have 4-channel ABS right? Is our current EBCM a Bosch unit?

---Ben

edit: sorry...what does ASR stand for??

---Ben

edit: sorry...what does ASR stand for??

Traction control is part of a series of three braking technology developments that began appearing in vehicles in the mid-eighties. (Note: Many German vehicle manufacturers call traction control by its original German name: ASR traction control. ASR stands for "Acceleration Slip Regulation." It's the same technology we're talking about here, but with a fancier name that most Americans have never heard of.) In chronological order, these developments are: anti-lock brakes, aka ABS (1978), traction control (1985), and stability control (1995). All three technologies come from the laboratories of Robert Bosch Company in Germany, and all address the issue of improving contact (traction) between your car's tires and the road.

This brings us to our present topic: stability control. The third "building block" in modern braking systems, stability control incorporates everything ABS and traction control do plus a yaw-sensing feature that works to increase traction during potential side-skidding situations. In other words, whereas both ABS and traction control work on the longitudinal (front-to-back) axis of the vehicle, stability control operates on the lateral (side-to-side) axis. Bosch's Electronic Stability Program (ESP), the first such system on the market, began appearing in 1995 Mercedes-Benz S-Class sedans. It has since become a popular feature on many upscale vehicles.

According to Bosch's Kosmider, "The platform for ABS, traction control and stability control is essentially the same. We simply add sensors to get the desired effect."

In addition to discrete electrical components, ceramic sensors and solenoid valves, stability control systems typically utilize wheel-speed sensors, steering-angle sensors and a hydraulic modulator. The key component is, however, something called a rotational speed sensor (also known as a yaw-rate sensor). Yaw can be described as "the movement of an object turning on its vertical axis."

The yaw-rate sensor determines how far off-axis a car is "tilting" in a turn. This information is then fed into a microcomputer that correlates the data with wheel speed, steering angle and accelerator position, and, if the system senses too much yaw, the appropriate braking force is applied.

As you can imagine, stability control systems are particularly effective in inclement driving conditions, where the roadway may be covered with rain, ice or snow and the normal friction between the tires and the road is reduced.

There are a couple of things you may want to know about stability control. First, the system will do most of the "thinking" for you. Depending on the particular driving situation, the system may activate an individual wheel brake or any combination of the four, as well as control the throttle, until the vehicle is once again stable.

Second, the system is fully independent of the driver's actions. Even if the car is free-rolling (no acceleration or braking input from the driver), the stability control system will kick in and perform its duty. All you need to do is steer.


DSP

Ahhh very good explantation..thats awesome! thanks a lot. I remember back in 1995 when stability control came out on the MB S-class sedans. I was too young to remember traction control coming out, but I remember the first car we had that had traction control (1992 lexus LS-400) and I thought it was possibly the coolest thing since sliced bread. The only time when traction control got in the way was this winter when we had a huge snow storm and there were two foot deep drifts on our driveway...(I tried as hard as I could but our little Simplicity Legacy sub-compact utility tractor was struggling to move the snow with all 4 tires spinning away haha)..well my mom managed to fly backwards out of the garage in her current car (2004 LS430) and literally "beach" it on a snow drift. After 25 minutes of rocking the car, the traction/stability control was no help, as it was just cutting the throttle. Shut it off and floored it forward and backward, finally rocking the car off the drift and back into the garage! I have to admit tho...with snow tires on (and bags of sand in the trunk) and as long as the snow isnt touching the chassis, that car DOES go thru most anything...amazing what technology has done!!! Of course it still wont beat the "REAL" 4 wheel drive Duramax! Sorry to sort of derail the thread there...Anyway, Got Juice, great description!:)

---Ben

Is it possible to plug the TCM into a computer and "read" the programming on it? I thought thats what the Co-pilot did. Anyway, you'd think one of the computer/transmission gurus (ATS comes to mind) could read that code, decipher it, and add in the elements neccessary to activate the 6th gear.

I'll bet after the '06s come out and are examined by the aftermarket, someone will come up with a "kit" of parts and programming similar to what Brayden said. I would imagine it would be veryyy popular.

Tom ):h

It's not that easy. You need a new program and a new hydraulic circuit. The bigger MD and HD Allison transmissions, which this transmission is based on, are built with six ranges that can be turned on by changing the program. However, the transmissions in the pre-MY06 pick-ups were designed to have only five speeds.

It's not that easy. You need a new program and a new hydraulic circuit. The bigger MD and HD Allison transmissions, which this transmission is based on, are built with six ranges that can be turned on by changing the program. However, the transmissions in the pre-MY06 pick-ups were designed to have only five speeds.

Hypothetically speaking, if one where to find a wrecked '06 with the 6-speed Allison in it a few months after the 6-speed is released, would it be possible for it to work as a 5-speed with the older TCM until a new TCM was aquired (assuming it wasn't aquired from the wrecked truck) OR pull the VB/buy a new VB and put it in an '04 and do the same?

The MY06 electrical systems and components for the engine and transmission are quite a bit different then previous model years. Hypothetically it can be done but be ready for a lot of cutting, splicing, and swearing.

The Machinics Of The Tranny May Not Have Changed, Like The Ford Tranny Which Is A Six Speed. The Computer Will Mix Over Drive With Ahother Gear To Make It An Six Speed.

Wait Ford has a 6-speed auto for 2006 also??

---ben

The Tranny Behind The 6.0, Starting With The 2003 Year Has Been An Six Speed. They Call It A Five Speed Because The Computer Never Uses All The Gears In A Row. It Will Skip Third Or Forth Gear Depending On Load And Motor Temp.

The Tranny Behind The 6.0, Starting With The 2003 Year Has Been An Six Speed. They Call It A Five Speed Because The Computer Never Uses All The Gears In A Row. It Will Skip Third Or Forth Gear Depending On Load And Motor Temp.

I think you are mistaken.

No This Is A Fact, If You Look In A Ford Repair Manual You Will See The Computer Out Puts For 1-6 Gears.

Maybe ford is doing what Jeep did for a while...where they actually used a 5 speed tranny but called it a 4 speed because it selected between 2 different "second" gears depending on load speed, etc... Just a guess.

--Ben

Actually, Mike L is probably right, no offence...I have driven a frineds 2004 F-350 SRW 6.0PSD and regardless of temp, load etc...the rpm drop between shifts was exactly the same. And the PSD turned almost exactly the same speed as our Dmax's do at 75 MPH...if its been a big feature of the tranny since 2003, this is the first I have heard about it (not that that means anything or whatnot, but I certainly think Ford would publicize it if it existed). Maybe the computer has 6 outputs for the 6-speed manual tranny?

--Ben

There is a cold shift only strategy in the 5R110 which does not allow trans to go to 1.1 (direct) or .71 ( overdrive). Instead computer comands overdrive clutch and intermediate clutch for a 1.095.1 high gear. Guess you could call it an extra gear but you won't see it very often. This is probably what you were refering to F250WHEELS.
mike

Yes Mike You Hit The Nail On Thr Head, My Point Being You Can Make A Six Speed Without Changing The Tranny.

What would be the point? Look at how close the ratios are.

in the army we drive freightliners w/ the allison trans. I don't think there is a secret gear in the 1000. Just like the firetruck guy said we do have to unlock the trans W/ the pro-link.

It's not really a secret gear. The 1000 Series has the same type of gearing as the bigger Allison six speeds so it has the capabilty of being a six speed. However, the electronics and hydraulics are set-up so that it is limited to a five speed. To make it a six-speed means a new valvebody and transmission program.

Once the 2006's really start to come out, wouldnt it only be a matter of time before someone discovers how to add the new TCM and VB?? Does the TCM communicate with the ECM over the CAN-bus or Class II? Because the 2006 trucks supposedly have a new Bosch ECM would that pose a problem for this potential modification? I really dont even care too much about the 6 gears...I just want that Manu-matic feature with the +/- buttons on the shifter!!!

---Ben

PS---why didnt GM go to a 6-speed in 2001? Its all the same tranny...so im surprised they didnt just go for it in 2001.

Communication between the diesel engine and the Ally has always been on the CAN-bus. I'm sure the MY06's are no different.

The hydraulics should be pretty easily to figure out, it's the electronic controls that are the tough part (so far, I don't think anyone's cracked the code). Without a new computer program: No six speed, no Manu-matic mode.

So if you simply wwent to the parts dept. and bought a 2006 4th generation TCM, would it plug right into our current Allisons and accept it?

---Ben

From what I've seen the new transmission controller is completely different. It uses a single big connector instead of the two smaller ones. You would need some kind of adapter harness to put it in. Even then, I doubt the engine controller would be able to talk to it because it too has changed.

Arrghhh darn...looks like we hit a wall with this. Anyone know a way around the problem at hand?


EDIT: thinking about it...would there be a communication problem? Its still the CAN-BUS so all info should be in the same data form, correct?

What would be the point? Look at how close the ratios are.

extra 15mph on the top end :eek:

I'm going to figure this out this weekend. I'm going to splice my Playstation II into my truck with Gran Turismo playing. I think that will take care of it. Seriously though, why wouldn't they just use the 6th gear in the first place? Isn't that like making an 8 cyl engine, but only wiring the computer to use 6 of them. What the..... Someone fill me in on their reasoning.

extra 15mph on the top end :eek:
I was talking about the Ford 5R110 and the cold strategy gear.
mike

I was talking about the Ford 5R110 and the cold strategy gear.
mike
OOPS, it's a ford so who knows ):h

Ring and pinion ----- 3.55----= sixth gear. Hummmmmmmmmmmm dam sure cheaper and a lot less work and headaches.

I'd LOVE to drop a set of 3.55, 3.42, etc gears in my Dmax, but NOBODY MAKES ANY!!!!

We may be better off looking for someone to make a run of ring and pinions for us than trying to retro-engineer this 6th gear.

Why would any of us guys waste our time with a 6th gear when the '07 may not even have a torque converter? The '06 will be a one year only bastard.

Why would any of us guys waste our time with a 6th gear when the '07 may not even have a torque converter? The '06 will be a one year only bastard.

CVT in '07?

CVTs can't handle the torque of a diesel. In fact, they can't handle much torque at all.

huh?? No torque converter? Im curious what else it would use as a coupling?

---ben

I'm going to figure this out this weekend. I'm going to splice my Playstation II into my truck with Gran Turismo playing. I think that will take care of it. Seriously though, why wouldn't they just use the 6th gear in the first place? Isn't that like making an 8 cyl engine, but only wiring the computer to use 6 of them. What the..... Someone fill me in on their reasoning.
No, 6th gear is more like making a V-8 that fires an extra cylinder per revolution. It is not using anything that wasn't used in the 5 speed, just is done in a different combination.

If you line up 3 planetary gears, you get 27 gearing combinations. Some will be reverse. It is a matter of selecting the gear range that works for your use.

If Mike is refering to the hybrids that are coming out in 2007 then yes, they probably do not have a TC. However, as long as this automatic transmission is around it will have a TC.

If Mike is refering to the hybrids that are coming out in 2007 then yes, they probably do not have a TC. However, as long as this automatic transmission is around it will have a TC.

Wonder what size it will be and what will be sharing the bellhousing area with it?;)

Probably the same as it is now. I seriously doubt they'd stick that thing they call a mild hybrid in there since it's going to be phased out when the new "strong" hydrids debut.

The US army is doing pretty well with their hybrid Duramaxes.

Word from the factory is, that the 07 1000 series will remain in it's current config.

Brayden,

You have a PM

If you want lower highway rpms, just put on bigger tires......

I heard their locking up 2nd gear ,for 6th ,over drive the same .

I heard their locking up 2nd gear ,for 6th ,over drive the same .

Now that does not make any sense at all. Why would you lock up 2nd with present gear ratios of 3.10 first going to 1.84 second. That would make a very uncomfortable shift. Plus, what would be the point with T/H? I am in contact with an Allison engineer and he does not know what exactly the final shifts will be like.

After taking an '06 for a ride, I'm HOOKED on the features of the 6-speed Allison... I WANT!

Can anyone get me the pinouts and such for the '04.5 and '06 TCM's? If the Allison TCM REALLY is standalone like has been said, it shouldn't be too bad installing the '06 TCM into an older truck since there shouldn't be too much communication between the TCM and the other modules....

Is there any place I can get something for GM vehicles similar to the Ford Service DVD that I have that has ALL information for ALL vehicles 1996-2003 (obviously the GM including up to 2006)? I've looked all over, but they don't seem to exist for GM...

Try ACDelco/GM's online database...for like 20 dollars you can get a 3 day subscription that lets you access everything online.

http://www.acdelcotds.com/transaction/presubscription.asp

You can buy however long a subscription you need. I subscribed when I was doing a lot of radio/amplifier/entertainment rewiring and needed all the pin-outs of the connectors. I know the BCM and PCM pinouts and wiring diagrams are all in there because I think I saved some of them. (to save a page for viewing after your subscription runs out, go to File, Save in Internet Explorer) Good luck and let us know what you find!!!!

----Ben

It is actually a 10 speed from the factory:
1st-1st TQ unlocked
2nd-1st Tq locked
3rd 2nd Tq unlocked
4th 2nd tq locked
etc, etc, etc.................:lol:

The TCM is not a stand alone module, there's constant communication between it, the the engine and ABS controllers. I seriously doubt it will be as easy as swapping out TCMs (although that would be nice).

The ABS controller SHOULD be identical to every other 2003-2005 truck. The only obsticle would be the PCM/ECM because it supposedly changed when the "new" LLY switched to a Bosch PCM and lost the EDU. However...it still communicates over the exact same data-bus using the same protocol. So technically our pre-Bosch PCMs should be able to talk to the 2006 TCM...its all the CAN data-bus. We would only need pin-outs to make the two physically different plugs hook together...if the plugs are even different at all! Am I wrong? Someone correct me if i am..

---Ben

The more gears the less of a heavy duty it will become,when i started driving semi the standard trans was 13 speed which most truck had...but they were hog going up hill,that a 9 speed could pass you..so why would you want six speed when your pulling?i think that allison is taking the heavy duty out of the 1000,and making it light duty by giving the six gear therefore making it quieter on the hi way.

they actually didnt "add" a physical gear to the tranny. 6th gear is made simply with application of a different combination of the 3 clutch packs and planetary gears in the tranny. So instead of being only able to utilize 5 combinations of clutch packs (thus the "5" speeds), the TCM now has the ability to command a 6th combination of clutch packs to therefore make a 6th gear. Other than a different Transmission Control Modual/software and a little bypass tube in the valve body, the 6-speed Ally 1000 is identical to the 5-speed Ally 1000.

---Ben

PS-- plus I think when its in Tow/Haul mode, it locks out 6th gear..so it would be identical to driving/towing with a 5-speed Allison..

How many of you guys have thought about the fact that when you comand a clutch on you must release a clutch off. You just don't put a toggle switch on the dash and get 6th gear. Why do you think there is no stand alone computer yet? I will bet you don't see one that works. I get a kick out of watching this thread. I have talked to 3 different trans programmers and they have all dropped the effort. I support your enthusiasm and appluad it. My money says no go. Way too difficult with no monetary return.

I guess its not so much the 6th gear I envy...but that tap-shift feature is awesome...

--Ben

so the question is where can someone get a 2 speed, how much do they cost and how much would they really benefit??

I have a comment ... critics and supporters alike ... lets not add to the confusion by posting your "bets". Let's keep this a technical topic. I've read this entire thread and it seems those who comment negatively, don't really understand how a planetary transmission works. Let those with the knowledge post the FACTS ... after all, isn't that what we're all interested in?

I have a comment ... critics and supporters alike ... lets not add to the confusion by posting your "bets". Let's keep this a technical topic. I've read this entire thread and it seems those who comment negatively, don't really understand how a planetary transmission works. Let those with the knowledge post the FACTS ... after all, isn't that what we're all interested in?

The technical facts have been presented in case you missed them. I know how a planetary gear syztem works as do other people here, not that it means squat in this case, and I am betting against any six speed conversion in the near future. What you can't understand is: To make this six speed happen someone is going to go out on a limb and spend big bucks for engineering and r/d with no gauranree it will sell. Some of this engineering will have to be sent out and paid for. Then after a lot of testing ( if you ever get that far) you have to build a bunch to get a good price. This product, if it ever comes to pass will be expensive and I believe it may require a stand alone tcm to pull this off. To date, there is no workable stand alone tcm. Sorry if I don't have the knowledge you might require, but these are the FACTS. Show me where I am wrong.
mike

Well...Mike L has spoken...and I dont think any of us can really argue with him...It seemed like a great idea at first, and it would have been really awesome, but is starting to seem like a lost cause.

So Mike the 6-speed is out the window...any hopes for gaining "tap-shift" capability??? Is there more hope for retrofitting tap-shift than a 6th gear? Or are they both hopeless? If I had to choose, Id MUCH rather have the tap-shift than a 6th gear!

---Ben

I have a comment ... critics and supporters alike ... lets not add to the confusion by posting your "bets". Let's keep this a technical topic. I've read this entire thread and it seems those who comment negatively, don't really understand how a planetary transmission works. Let those with the knowledge post the FACTS ... after all, isn't that what we're all interested in?

Crawl back in your hole

Well...Mike L has spoken...and I dont think any of us can really argue with him...It seemed like a great idea at first, and it would have been really awesome, but is starting to seem like a lost cause.
---Ben

Unless we can convince Allison themselves to put out a kit......... pipe dreams I know.

DEWFPO

simplist thing is to just go buy one. it even comes with a warranty

simplist thing is to just go buy one. it even comes with a warranty

Where's the fun in that?:)

Things are going to happen with the Ally and we don't know what. Somebody will make an effort to do something and look out.( someone will pick up the ball from there) I do not mean to try and shoot you guys down on the 6speed; Lord knows I wish I was smarts enough. What I do know is; I have talked to the smartest people I know and they all say the same thing. No Way are they even thinking of making that commitment. No one has totaly figuered out the Allys pcm yet. It will happen and we are all trying.
mike

If someone can get me all pertinent (sp?) information related to the 04.5/06 Allison TCM, ECM, Brake controller, TCM pinouts, etc, I'll look into it... I'm pretty good with electronics and such, and have done something similar (installed a '97 PCM in my '95 car... took harness changes, connector pinout changes, wire additions, sensor changes/additions) and it works great. Granted, it wasn't as "networked" as this truck, but as long as the communication protocols are the same (which it has been said that they are), and the connectors can be swapped, it SHOULD work with a TCM and VB swap (in theory). If I pour over the information and think I can do it, if I have the $$ I might just make my truck a Guinea Pig unless someone beats me to it. I'll just have to make friends with a tech or two at my local dealer for Tech II useage...

An e-mail anyone can send information to is projalli (at) modularmn12.us

Go for it, Cougar!!! Have you looked into AC Delco's online Technical Data system? (the one where you buy a subscription and then have access to all of the pinouts/technuical documents)

----Ben

I looked at the page, but at the moment, money is still at a premium, after being out of work for like 7 months, and just got married a month ago... I want to get started on the investigating, but that money needs to go elsewhere... Anyone have a subscription I can "borrow"?

Never fear, Cougar!!!:) I just bought a 1 day subscription and because I only had one college class today, I am madly going through EVERY Allison tranny tech document and saving it to my computer. Schematics, test procedures, pin-outs, plug locations, the whole bit. Ill send you the "master folder" with everything once im done grabbing everything. There were some things I didnt grab, such as the DTC lists, etc just because that would ahve taken forever! If there is ANY other document you need or a specific document you need, PM me or reply to this thread before 9:00 AM tomorrow morning (when my subscription runs out!!). Do you have an email address that I can send the whole shebang to so you can :grd: ?? Good luck, we're all rooting for you!:ro)

---Ben

Whats the URL to the online doc system? I might download some docs too since I am at work and our inet speed runs at 80+ Mb/s. Talk about good p2p bandwidth :)

Got it guys...I just found this blown-apart diagram of the MW7 Allison and its valve body! And guess what that tiny little part with the (184) next to it is labeled...


















..."6 speed pipe"!!!!!!!!:ro) :ro) :ro)

https://www.acdelcotds.com

1 day subscription costs 20 dollars.
5 day subscriptions costs 40 dollars IIRC.

Once im at a page I want to keep, In internet Explorer, I just go File, Save As, and save it to a folder on m,y desktop. That way you can still view the docs once your subscroipton runs out.

---Ben

AWESOME DURAtotheMAX!!!! I REALLY hope after going over the info, I am confident that it'll work, and then I have the $$ to try it...

Too bad we werent so far away from eachother!! Becuase Id love to work on this with you and help out in any way I can. Im not too good with the actual tranny internals, but Im good with the computers and wiring and connectors etc...

Alright...well gotta get back to grabbing everything I can from the TDS site!!

----Ben

I'm the same as you with the computers/wires/connectors. The PCM swap I did with my car, I was told "CAN'T BE DONE", but I did it, and it works perfectly. I'm no where near Mike as far as transmissions are concerned, but I'm not afraid to work on them. I've replaced the transmission in my car, as well as modified the VB. The only part of the tramsission I'm not too hot on is the "guts".

Too bad we werent so far away from eachother!! Becuase Id love to work on this with you and help out in any way I can. Im not too good with the actual tranny internals, but Im good with the computers and wiring and connectors etc...

Alright...well gotta get back to grabbing everything I can from the TDS site!!

----Ben

Question...why did you replace the TCM on your '95 car with a '97 PCM?? What were the advantages? And exactly what work did it involve?

---Ben

Question...why did you replace the TCM on your '95 car with a '97 PCM?? What were the advantages? And exactly what work did it involve?

---Ben

Well, the '95 PCM was a "preliminary" OBD-II PCM; it was the second year that Furd was putting them in the 4.6L V8 cars, and wasn't fully compliant. The '97 PCM is fully OBD-II compliant, has a few more data feeds, supports the addition of knock sensors (has the drivers, I would just need to add a pair of wires to the PCM harness and have them turned on in my tune), integrated the EDIS module instead of having a seperate one, and the 94/95 PCMs are known for hanging injectors open.

To do it, I had to change the Torqe converter clutch, add a Evap purge flow sensor, put an entire 96/97 harness from the PCM through the firewall, onto the engine, removed the externam EDIS module, Added a 96/97 transmission harness, change connectors and pinouts under the dash to match the 96/97 harnesses, and added something like six new wires for the O2 sensors. The new transmission (from a '99 Mustang GT) required modifying the pinout of the main transmission connector both on the '95 harness and the '97 harness.

AFAIK, I'm the only one that has done it, and I was told that it couldn't be done.

Thats awesome!! Great job with that PCM swap. Im also adding the 8.1 Vortec PCM diagrams too...because it uses the same 6-speed Allison but there were no changes to IT'S computer!!! So therefore, the 2006 Ally TCM is clearly capable of communicating with pre-2006 PCM/ECM's. I think we're slowly getting somewhere...

-----Ben


...I know Mike L. is sitting back and laughing at us right now):h :D

Is the 2006 TCM actually different? Anyone look at an 06 yet?

It's on the driver's side of the radiator shroud.

I would be surprised if it was different.

Looking at the tech documents, it looks slightly diffferent with different plugs. Nothing a little pin extractor couldnt "modify" tho!! Looks like we just need a 2005 and a 2006 harness. Grab one plug from the '05 and the other plug from the '06, look at the pin-outs, pop the pins in, and boom, you have an adapter. Just like doing a LUX amp swap...only a couple more pins and wires!

---Ben

From the electronic side of things, it could be that simple. We'll see. How much integration is there with the TCM? Does it need to be programmed with the VIN etc like other modules, or would we just need to have a TCM from a Duramax?

Looking at the tech documents, it looks slightly diffferent with different plugs. Nothing a little pin extractor couldnt "modify" tho!! Looks like we just need a 2005 and a 2006 harness. Grab one plug from the '05 and the other plug from the '06, look at the pin-outs, pop the pins in, and boom, you have an adapter. Just like doing a LUX amp swap...only a couple more pins and wires!

---Ben

The TCM does have to be programmed, initiated and "Introduced" to the rest of the vehicle. I sent the procedures for both 2004 and 2006 TCM's and they seem the same. All done with a Tech 2.

---Ben

Is the 2006 TCM actually different? Anyone look at an 06 yet?

It's on the driver's side of the radiator shroud.

I would be surprised if it was different.

I've looked under the hood and it is physically a different size. I also remember it only having one connector. Where we have two connectors.

Don't worry about the communication relearn or security relearn. I've swapped TCMs from different years with no problems.

They are different. The 2003-05 TCM's have two 32 pin connectors, while the 2006 has one 80 pin.

In looking over the pinouts, they are a close match. The 2006 has 5 that don't match up with the 2004 TCM; the four data busses and the Driver Shift Request Signal. looks like the +/- button goes direct to the TCM and the TCM recognizes which you pushed by the value that comes across the wire due to some resistors.

On the 2004-05 TCM, there are 5 orphans. There are the two CAN connections, a TRANS ID connection, PPC Solenoid B Valve High Control, and TCC PWM Solenoid Supply Voltage. The +/- CAN conenctions make sense, but can anyone shed light on the other three from the 2003-05 TCM?

There are differences in the transmission harness as well... there are more pins in use on the 20-pin connector on the transmission, as well as a few differences, such as a "Trans ID" pin on the '04 and not on the '06. Keep your eyes peeled for a totalled 2006...

- crawls out of a hole -

DURAtotheMAX & Cougar281 ... Excellent work! :cool2: Seems both of you have a handle on the electronics (at least a start). If you're willing, I could take a look at any of the "guts" information you may have. Being an torque converter design engineer, I may be able to figure out any problems activating the '6th gear' may cause. If I'm not able to figure it out, I know plenty of planetary transmission designers down the hall at work which may find this an interesting challenge. Or would you rather I crawl back into a hole? ):h

Keeping it positive ... making it real ... sharing technical information ... may lead us to success. Here's to best wishes! If we figure this out, how much should we charge Mike L? :muahaha:

RacinJason--- Do you want me to send you all of the documents that I downloaded? There is lots of blown-apart diagrams of the tranny and valvebody. There is also charts that show all of the combinations of clutch packs that make 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th gear. Do you have an email address?

---Ben

RacinJason. Not only do we want you to stay out of your hole, but we'll even pitch in to get you a pair of sunglasses so you can stand the light. :cool: Welcome to the board.

- crawls out of a hole -

Keeping it positive ... making it real ... sharing technical information ... may lead us to success. Here's to best wishes! If we figure this out, how much should we charge Mike L? :muahaha:

:eek: ):h You can't get blood out of a rock.:D

Can anyone verify the existence of a 6-sp 8.1 gas truck with the "old style" TCM? This would be the right direction to go in.

You would have to read in the 5-sp 8.1 gas TCM program and the 6-sp 8.1 program as well as a 5-sp Dmax program. The differences will tell you how to edit the 5-sp program.

Exactly, McRat!!! Wonder if there are any 2006 8.1's around. When I go home for my next vacation, ill go to my dealer and look around. Im good family friends with my dealer so he'll let me dig around in pretty much anything:D .

---Ben

Nope. The TCM in the 8.1 is the same as the TCM in the Duramax (according to everything DURAtotheMAX sent me). Only difference is the pins used for the high speed communication, and the gas uses idle kickdown and torque management pins.

Can anyone verify the existence of a 6-sp 8.1 gas truck with the "old style" TCM? This would be the right direction to go in.

You would have to read in the 5-sp 8.1 gas TCM program and the 6-sp 8.1 program as well as a 5-sp Dmax program. The differences will tell you how to edit the 5-sp program.

I love all this enthusiasm for the 6th gear. It has become like the holy grail. Don't think they found that either yet. Heard something about Allison having opened a monestary in Sardinia with secret catecombs that contained ............?

Find me a wrecked '06 (I'm sure there are a few out there already), and the only thing that could stop me from making it work would be ECM/TCM communication. If the '06 TCM can communicate with the 04 ECM via the same pins that the '06 8.1L uses, It'll probably work. There are electrical differences between the 03-05 and 06 Allisons, but that's nothing that can't be changed. Any idea how the TRANS_ID wire works?

Like I said earlier, I was told the PCM swap I did with my car couldn't be done. I did it. We'll see what time brings.

What about another route? I'm sure the Allison 1000 (or 2000) was used in SOMETHING as a 6 speed somewhere between 2003 and 2005. Aren't all the Allison TCM's the same, weather they're being used for GM, freightliner, Sutphen, etc? If so, what if we figured out what got a 6 speed Allison 1000/2000 and got a TCM from it? Just another thought.

I love all this enthusiasm for the 6th gear. It has become like the holy grail. Don't think they found that either yet. Heard something about Allison having opened a monestary in Sardinia with secret catecombs that contained ............?

Find me a wrecked '06 (I'm sure there are a few out there already), and the only thing that could stop me from making it work would be ECM/TCM communication. If the '06 TCM can communicate with the 04 ECM via the same pins that the '06 8.1L uses, It'll probably work. There are electrical differences between the 03-05 and 06 Allisons, but that's nothing that can't be changed. Any idea how the TRANS_ID wire works?

Like I said earlier, I was told the PCM swap I did with my car couldn't be done. I did it. We'll see what time brings.

What about another route? I'm sure the Allison 1000 (or 2000) was used in SOMETHING as a 6 speed somewhere between 2003 and 2005. Aren't all the Allison TCM's the same, weather they're being used for GM, freightliner, Sutphen, etc? If so, what if we figured out what got a 6 speed Allison 1000/2000 and got a TCM from it? Just another thought.

Well, speaking of another route how about a Gear Vendors aux. overdrive? I emailed GV to see if they planned on making a unit available for the Allison and thisis what they sent me:

Jeff,
We do plan on marketing kits for the late model GM vehicles with the Allision 1000 transmission. We do not know when they will be ready. Prototypes of the 4x4 version are still in the works. As for prices, I believe they will be in line with our other late model kits for the Ford, and Dodge transmissions. Around $2995.00. Keep in touch with us via email from time-to-time, or give our New Products department a call at 1-800-999-9555. Thank you for your interest in our product.

Jeff Kubizna
Gear Vendors

This is the second time I posted this response, but the GV response is only minutes old and I wanted to get the info out. Ya know $2995 ain't to bad depending on what a 6speed Allison upgrade will cost...if it's even doable...especially for us guys with older models.
JP

My idea of a perfect trans for the Duramax would be a Ford 4R100 with a Gear Vendors unit splitting the gears. I don't need the 3.10 first gear shifting into a 1.81 second. A 2.7 or 2.8 first gear would launch like a rocket and really make a nice shift into 2nd without a power dip. You would also drop a hundred pounds. I will bet you could drop at least 2 tenths or more.

My idea of a perfect trans for the Duramax would be a Ford 4R100

:eek:

OMG........ Mike your saying a furd tranny is better than our Allison's

That's it, No sheep for you !!!!!

No more of this :sheephumpfor you. :lol:


DD


.

:eek:

OMG........ Mike your saying a furd tranny is better than our Allison's

That's it, No sheep for you !!!!!

No more of this :sheephumpfor you. :lol:


DD


.

DD
I did not say it was better. I just think the Duramax would be quicker in the quarter mile with better ratios in the trans.
mike

Hmmmmm, diffrent ratio's in the Allison for better quarter mile performance, sounds like another Mike L project :grd:

I guess the questions are, "Mike, is it possible to build a Ford trans to take the torque?" and "How would you bolt it up to the Dmax?"


:lol: -- no sheep for you -- :lol:

Im going to try & find an article I seen the other day about getting 6 speeds out of an allison, BS or not, Ill try & find it. Supposedly been done.

I guess the questions are, "Mike, is it possible to build a Ford trans to take the torque?" and "How would you bolt it up to the Dmax?"


:lol: -- no sheep for you -- :lol:

My reserve is plentifull thanks to McRat.:cool: The adapters are made and the converter is done, and the stand alone computer is available.

DURAtotheMAX,
I sent you an e-mail with my contact information a couple evenings ago. Please confirm you received the e-mail. I'm eagerly awaiting to review the documents you have.
Last night I was talking with a close friend who is a planetary transmission engineer about this conversion and is quite familar with the 1000 series Allison transmission design. He said he'd be willing to help out with any details he could. He also mentioned we have a number of Allison transmission reference manuals at work which may help in this quest. Based on his knowledge and experience, he believes this conversion would be quite simple mechanically and even believes the part changes necessary would be minimal. He stated this would essentially boil down to a software/controls problem.
If you can get us the information you have, we'll gladly support this effort to get us all that 6th gear.

Jason--- Sorry about that...I have been pretty busy with school and it completely slipped my mind...I sent the documents, but it came back to me saying the file was too big for your (work) email address. Do you have another email address I can maybe try?

---Ben

I agree with mike. 1st gear is too low. Why GM designs many of their auto trannies with too low 1st gears I don't know. In addition, (1) I think the torque converter at stock specs is too loose, i.e. too high of stall speed, it's too inefficient causing more heat and less economy, but conversely good for performance (2) the programming doesn't allow the tranny to upshift soon enough, and keeps the engine hanging longer in the lower gear, only exacerbated by the tow-haul mode. It's a good tranny, but I think there could be improvements to make it more efficient when running the truck empty.

I think the rear axle gear should be taller, about 3.42 or 3.31's, use taller tires, or whatever it takes to get cruising at 70 mph at about 1900 rpm's in high gear for max efficiency.

Ford tranny?!?!?! -:t

:badidea:

:offtopic:

DURAtotheMAX,
I received package #2 of the information you sent. It was 10.3 Mb. Can you please break package #1 into 2 pieces and resend. If it does not go through again, try resending it to my home e-mail address. I will take FOREVER to download using dial-up, but I should be able to accept it there if you continue to have difficulty sending it to my work address.

All,
I have completed a summary of most everything posted on this thread with answers to previous questions along with some new questions. I have had some difficulty getting it to post (using cut and paste from MS Word). Is there a max. character limit for replies? I will attempt to post it again later.

Jason---package "1" is not really important. It only contains radio/Bose amplifier/entertainment/interior electrical wiring and schematics...packages 2 and 3 contain the GOOD STUFF!

---Ben

DURAtotheMAX,
O.K. Thanks! I did not receive #3. Could you resend that then?

If your guys email problems is any sign of things to come for 6th gear these poor guys are in trouble.):h :eek: Sorry, but this is entertaining. You have not begun to see what problems you will face.
mike

Mike, I don't know why you keep saying it CAN'T be done. It HAS been done. Granted, GM did it, but the 6-speed with tap-shift WAS installed in a 2004.5 truck (at least one, probably more). Like I said: Find me either a wrecked truck or a TCM, harness and VB, I'll make it work.

My understanding is that the sixth gear has been in the allison since '01. '06 will be the first year that it is being enabled. I hope that the trans. mods and programing to get 6th working, are easy and inexpensive.


I also heard that the Duramax 6.6 L V-8 is actually a 8.3L V-10, with 2 cylinders deactivated. Just think the power you'll have when someone can reprogram the computer to use those extra 2 cylinders.):h

If your guys email problems is any sign of things to come for 6th gear these poor guys are in trouble.):h :eek: Sorry, but this is entertaining. You have not begun to see what problems you will face.
mike
Like putting a ford tranny in is any better ):h ):h :grd:

Hey Mike L.,
You claimed earlier in this thread you had an Allison engineer contact. Instead of bashing this attempt to improve fuel ecomony by enabling 6th gear for reduced engine speed, how about helping? Could you share any information your contact gave you? Or how about sharing his name and contact info.? You can either help or hinder us ... it's your choice! If 'hinder' is your choice, I request you please let us do our work in peace. Thanks!
Respectfully,
Jason

I have re-read this entire thread and I wanted to summarize all the FACTs listed so far about the 6th gear topic. Hopefully, this will get all of us on the same page. I've listed some answers to a few questions which were posted and I'm also posting a few new questions of my own. Please feel free to contact me if you have information demonstrating any of these statements as being incorrect.

TOPIC: Allison 1000 Transmission - Is there any way to put a 6th gear in our (5 speed) Allison?

FACTs
1) 6th gear is already in the "5 speed" transmission - a 3 train planetary transmission allows for MANY gear combinations (some will be reverse).
2) Allison 1000 series transmissions have 3 planetary gear sets and 5 clutch packs regardless of 5 speed or 6 speed. Combination of 2 clutchs engaged will result in an output gear ratio.
3) The Allison 1000 transmission is essentially a different marketing rating of the 2000 series. Allison 3000 & 4000 have 6 speeds available (I think the 2000 has 6 speeds available also in certain applications). The 1000 & 2000 series are "scaled down" versions of the 3000/4000 transmissions.
4) 6th gear is either not enabled or not "programmed" with software code into the pre-'06 transmissions.
5) '06 valve body is different - to date, the only physical difference identified is the addition of the "6th speed tube", possibly a bypass tube.
6) Road speed determines drive shaft speed. Drive shaft speed will not increase with the addition of the 6th gear (assuming speed limiter is not changed to allow for MUCH HIGHER vehicle speed).
7) Engine speed reduces when engaging 6th gear while maintaining vehicle speed (if at 70mph the engine runs at 2200rpm in 0.71-5th gear, 0.61-6th gear reduces engine speed to 1890rpm = FUEL SAVINGS!)
8) 6th gear increases #3 planetary (P3) speed (NOTE: planet carrier speed will equal output shaft speed - no change ... planet gear speeds will increase in 6th)
9) No change likely to the engine/transmission bolt pattern - '06 LLY engines are coming with the 6 speed until '06.5 and will then be replaced with the LBZ engine. A bolt pattern change for a joint of this significance would very likely trigger a new engine S/N for traceability for service. Also, I understand the Allison 1000/2000 series bolt pattern is probably a stardard SAE pattern due to being sold into various applications.
10) Allison GenIV TCM now common on 1000/2000/3000/4000 series 6 speed transmissions.
11) Allison's TCMs are VERY LIKELY stand-alone controllers because they are used in MANY different applications (Chevy/GMC truck, bus, vocational day cabs, concrete mixers, etc.) and attach to MANY different engines. However, the TCM needs to have proper software installed for the specific application and be able to communicate with the engine's ECM for proper transmission operation. Remember, the engine doesn't shift the transmission (nor does the tail wag the dog), rather the transmission decides when to shift and requests the engine to drop rpm via a signal line such as J1939. Therefore, the TCMs should be able to be stand-alone units as long as there is a means of communication to the engine and vehicle systems.
12) ABS communicated over J1939 CAN1 & CAN2
13) '03-'05 TCM has two 32 pins connectors. '06 GenIV TCM has an 80 pin connector.
Continue to next reply for Q&A ...

Page 2 ...

Questions & Answers
1) Will adding 6th gear require a Torque Converter upgrade? Likely no for stock trucks. By adding a 6th gear, the engine's hp/torque provided to the drivetrain is not changing so the converter, as designed, should have the capacity required. A converter upgrade should only be necessary if you are adding a significant amount of additional hp/torque from the engine via an engine performance altering device. If I understand the Allison shift protocol, converter mode is only used in 1st & 2nd gear. The remaining shifts are done in direct drive mode (lock-up clutch engaged).
2) Why not a 6 speed in 2001? Fuel prices were A LOT less, no demand or competition for a 6 speed, and the design was not validated for 6 gears in 2001 meaning a risk to warranty exposure for GM.
3) Why mess with 6th gear when '07 won't have a torque converter? BS! GM is not ready for CVT nor that quick of a change over on heavy duty trucks. Maybe GM will introduce CVT into passenger car or possibly light duty trucks, but not on heavy duty trucks! The technology is too new and TOO expensive. GM will validate on smaller vehicles first. Plan on torque converters staying around for a while. CVT is at least 2010.
4) 5 speed to 6 speed conversion will cost major engineering and R&D! Well no, not really ... not for GM. The majority of the conversion would essentially be validated by the new 6 speed. Allison would not have to put out much $$$ at all. ... but they will likely NOT introduce a kit.
5) No way is Allison offering a conversion! And why should they? GM is not going to push this because of potential warranty exposure to existing product. Also, they have already sold the 5 speeds. What is the incentive for offering a conversion? GM wants to sell trucks ... customers want new features ... hence, if you want new features, GM encourages you to buy a new truck. This will likely only be an aftermarket conversion or owner modification because of that very fact.
New Questions:
1) Is the '06 planetary construction different in pre-'06 models (i.e. planet carrier, bearings, thrust washers, etc.)? P/N comparison can answer this question.
2) Confirm - did '06 helical gear angles change from previous models? Increase or decrease in angle? Noise reasons only? (Note: Increase in angle will increase gear thrust loads while decreasing noise.)
3) Is 6th gear "programmed" into the pre-'06 TCM software and needs to simply be 'enabled'? The by-pass tube may still need to be installed to work.
4) Confirm - '06 Duramax PCM/ECM is new (Bosch)?
5) Confirm - Is 6th gear disabled in T/H mode on the '06s?
6) Confirm - '06 ECM and Gen IV TCM still communicate on the same CAN-bus a '05s? Is this J1939?
7) Confirm - Did the '06 8.1L ECM change from the '05s? If the ECM did not change for 8.1L, then, logically, we know the pre-'06 ECMs can "talk" with the Gen IV TCM because the Allison is also offered with the 8.1L. Is the 8.1L ECM the same as the pre-'06 Duramax ECM? If so, then the Gen IV TCM is able to talk to pre-'06 Duramax ECM with a properly engineered "jumper" wire harness.
8) Does anyone have an Allison design engineer contact? I'd be interested in their thoughts directly ... not the viewpoint from marketing.
9) Cougar & DURAtotheMAX, please confirm this pin information - '06 TCM has 5 orphan pins w.r.t. '03-'05 TCM - (4) data busses & +/- driver shift request (for tap shift feature). '03-'05 TCM has 5 orphan pins w.r.t. '06 TCM - (2) CAN connectors, TRANS ID, PPC solenoid B valve high control & ?
10) Why would anyone WANT to use a Ford tranny? Please don't answer - only a hypothetical question.
11) For 6th gear only, it is my understanding thus far that we need a Gen IV TCM, a bypass tube for the valve body and a jumper harness and possibly someone willing to run Tech2 or the Gen IV flash tool. Anyone getting the same viewpoint?
Talking with one of our in-house experts on the Allison transmission, he confirmed there is no known bootleg software for enabling 6th gear .... yet. He believes that someone will eventually figure it out. He is also unsure how to access the software and does not have the proper tools himself. Apparently, there is a new software tool for accessing the Gen IV's software. Supposedly, Pro-Link will not work with 1000 series transmissions, only 3000/4000. One point he made (and I concur), if none of the sensors and valve body solenoids on the 6 speed transmission have changed from the 5 speed, there is no logical reason we couldn't get a Gen IV TCM to talk with the engine via a 'jumper' wire harness and add whatever additional 'hardware' may be necessary.

I hope this information is helpful! Stay tuned ...

Paul Harvey .... Good Day!

Jason
I was only kidding with you. More info is coming but very slow. You will first need an '06 truck to play with and have an Allison DOC on hand ( neither is readily available yet.) You will need to see valve body difference and how it works. You will need to see just what the new pattern switch actually does, and you will need to see what the new NSBU switch does. Once you have figured all that out you can then start playing with the new TCM as I don't believe the old one is capable of handling the apply and the release of an extra gear while keeping the TAPS happy and not going to instant limp. When the new Allison books come out things will be more clear and they are available to anyone for about 200.00.
mike

After spending too much time reading this thread, me thinks that adding a two-speed rear end or a Gear Vendors overdrive would be easier and less prone to failure.

Mike L.,
Thanks! That's the kinda of helpful information we're all looking for. I agree the GenIV TCM will likely be a requirement as I also believe the pre-'06 TCM does not have the 'computing power' to handle a 6th gear as you stated. Also, I'm still learning some of the controls of this transmission (the 'hard parts' are my specialty), can you help me (and others) out with the acronmys TAPS and NSBU? I've seen these mentioned without explanation in other threads. Can you please shed some light on them? I hope we can continue to lean on your experience and knowledge. I think we have some talented, intelligent and experienced people who are not afraid of trying the "it won't work" problems on this forum and collectively, we should be able to figure out how to enable 6th gear. Thanks again!

NSBU = Neutral Safety Backup Switch im pretty sure...
I have heard TAPS but dont know what it is...

I will resend the third package in a little while, sorry I have been really busy!!

---Ben

I just ran across this thread the other day and had to read it all the way through. I would give anything to update my 04 LLY CCSB to a 6 speed. 95% of my driving is not towing, so the extra gear would be great on the hiway. If there is anything i can do to help with this project i would be glad to help. I work in the engineering department of a truck manufacturing company, and we use Allison transmissions exclusively. I also have full access to the Allison extranet if you guys need any documents from there.
Good work guys, keep it going.

Jason--- I resent you that third package, but it was refused. Do you have any other email addresses I can send it to?? Have you made any progress with the documents you did receive?

---Ben

After spending too much time reading this thread, me thinks that adding a two-speed rear end or a Gear Vendors overdrive would be easier and less prone to failure.

i am starting to agree with this viewpoint, regretably it seems that either one is not going to be available in the immediate future either. so we are stuck without any type of decent mod to drop those rpms currently :(

hopwever, on the bright side, if it was possible to use both ideas together, that would just completely rock !!! talk about a severe drop in rpm's !!!!

BTW, does anyone know of a vender that is making a dual gear box for our trucks currently??? (proto-type or production)

Great work fellows. I'm going down this path too. If GM won't do it on units they've already sold, we have two choices. Trade or Fix them ourselves. Does the trans kit sold by Camping World apply to 4(6)WD?

Ed

Gentlemen (and any ladies that may have been present),

When I saw this thread I had to read the whole thing through because it was my desire, like many others such as yourselves, to find out how to get the 6th speed out of our Allison's. Through the process of reading this thread my emotions where up and down, left and right, etc... Without getting very long winded, and to shorten what I want to say, I want to applaud everyone of you involved in this project and for keeping sight of the goal and vision no matter what everyone else says. I am no transmission expert but I am a good engineer who has built and raced many high horsepower vehicles in my lifetime. I have owned my own business, managed many others, and have learned how to discern the right people for the right positions. The most important thing I want to say is that even if you dont find the solution to unlocking the 6th speed, what you have accomplished and learned between all of you is the very fiber of what makes a great company. All of you are the very type of individuals that I look for in building a successful company. Bill Gates, Ross Perot, Clayton Williams, George Bush, my father and many other great men and women like them all have one key characteristic in common. THEY NEVER LOST SIGHT OF THEIR GOAL OR QUIT EVEN WHEN EVERYONE WAS TELLING THEM IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE AND STUPID. Success is NOT the accomplishment of goals. It's the journey you take trying to get there.

I haven't read all through the thread because it is so long....so here goes. Has NODMAX posted about his beta 6 speed allison in his 05 from Merchant Auto? Here is his sig:

2005 GMC K3500 CC/DRW
POWERED BY PPE
KD 4/5 exhaust, Sleeves, Carter pump
Merchant Automotive built ATS w/ Co-pilot
MA Allison 6 speed conversion BETA Tester

I haven't seen any posts. This is the first I've heard of it...

I haven't read all through the thread because it is so long....so here goes. Has NODMAX posted about his beta 6 speed allison in his 05 from Merchant Auto? Here is his sig:

2005 GMC K3500 CC/DRW
POWERED BY PPE
KD 4/5 exhaust, Sleeves, Carter pump
Merchant Automotive built ATS w/ Co-pilot
MA Allison 6 speed conversion BETA Tester

I already found a wrecked DMAx 06/Allison... If only I had the $ I'd jump all over it, the TCM and harness... Maybe the engine/ECM as well...

I wonder if we could get our "old" LLY's to run on the new LLY Bosch A35 32-bit ECM??? Anyone know? The programming SHOULD be identical, no? We'd need to move a lot of pins around tho on the wiring harness.

---Ben

I
MA Allison 6 speed conversion BETA Tester


I think he is joking about that... we want it so badly we'll beleive anything!:)

--ben

I haven't read all through the thread because it is so long....so here goes. Has NODMAX posted about his beta 6 speed allison in his 05 from Merchant Auto? Here is his sig:

2005 GMC K3500 CC/DRW
POWERED BY PPE
KD 4/5 exhaust, Sleeves, Carter pump
Merchant Automotive built ATS w/ Co-pilot
MA Allison 6 speed conversion BETA Tester

Lets ask dmaxalliTech. He workds for MA.

He workds for MA.

He IS merchant automotive!:D Im almost 99% sure he was kidding about that 6-speed conversion kit tho.

-Ben

I think it would work, but it would require all new harnesses, additional sensors, new intake with grid heater... in short, the better part of the top half of the engine. PRoblem is our ECM's have the external injector driver module, whereas the new ECM has the injector driver built in. It's another one of those things that given some money and a Tech II I could probably make it work. Might also require a fuel line mod since our trucks have the fuel running throught he injector driver module, which doesn't exist on the 06.

I wonder if we could get our "old" LLY's to run on the new LLY Bosch A35 32-bit ECM??? Anyone know? The programming SHOULD be identical, no? We'd need to move a lot of pins around tho on the wiring harness.

---Ben

I think he is joking about that... we want it so badly we'll beleive anything!:)

--ben

GGGEEEEEEEEZZZ...why would that NOT surprise me. I'm gonna send him a PM just to see.

yeah we'd have to find a work around for deleting the EDU if we switched over to an '06 ECM.

Out of 4 wheel magazine:


" It is basically the same Allison 1000 as before,but with an extra tube in the valve body that now activates a different combination of clutches to give us an additional 0.61:1 overdrive sixth gear ratio"

thats what we already have figured out...thats the easy part. What we have to work on tho is the electronic half. Getting a 2006 TCM to work with a pre-2006 ECM.

--Ben

I hate to say it but, if you want a 6 speed Ally that bad just buy a new truck. I know what a party pooper. The investment of time and money chasing a quick fix for a minimal gain in mileage just seams silly to me.
Just my $.02

There are a few us in the industry working on the 6th gear right now. There will be no technical info posted about this undertaking. Time will tell.
mike

I hate to say it but, if you want a 6 speed Ally that bad just buy a new truck. I know what a party pooper. The investment of time and money chasing a quick fix for a minimal gain in mileage just seams silly to me.
Just my $.02

Well, because I was uninformed of the 6-speed coming out when I purchased my '05 and I took advantage of the $aving$ offered by the employee discount deal, I am no longer in the market for a new truck. I also have no interest in loosing all the ca$h I $aved at the time of purchase by trading in the truck now and taking a HUGE bite in the a$$ on trade-in value. However, if there is a way to get the 6-speed enabled for reasonable $$$, I'm interested. That's what we've been wroking towards. However, you're likely very correct in saying this will consume more time than it's worth ... therefore, you could call it a hobbie! ):h

personally, I like a challenge. I was told that Ithe PCM swap I did with my car couldn't be done. Some have said this can't be done (Although it HAS been done). With some money, I'm sure I can make it work. As much as I'd love an 06, I don't plan on getting a new truck any time soon. Not only would I like the 6th gear, I'd also like the tap shift. Another thing I would mind trying at some point would be dropping an LBZ in the truck...

DuraToTheMax...I have your anwser.....since you want this tap shift so bad....













buy a Ferrari,lol

The sixth gear is just a redesigned valve body to allow the transmission to use the planetary gears in a different order. The final drive gear 6th is the same ratio as the old 5th gear in the first design. you wont be able to reprogram the tcm to have a sixth gear. The new ratio is like haveing a nother gear between 4th and fifth. Hope this helps.

huh? gears 1-5 on the MW7 6-speed Ally are identical to th M74 5-speed. Gears 1-5 still use the same combinations of clutchpacks to make up those gears. 5the gear in the MW7 is .71, just like 5th gear on the M74. The TCM just applies a different combination of clutchpacks to make the .61 6th gear. Its not hydraullicly enabled on the M74 valve body because there is no passageway in the VB to allow fluid to pressurize those two specific clutchpacks at once. According to GM TIS, the only physical difference other than a new TC, is the addition of a tiny little tube (called a "6-speed-pipe" by GM) in the valve body. This little tube allows fluid to flow to the specific clutchpacks that make up the .61 6th gear... Maybe the VB is different still...but looking at the drawings, its the same.

Here's the 2006 Valve body. The "6-speed-pipe" is number "184" on the drawing.

--ben

MAYBE..............:cool:
.
.

The sixth gear is just a redesigned valve body to allow the transmission to use the planetary gears in a different order. The final drive gear 6th is the same ratio as the old 5th gear in the first design. you wont be able to reprogram the tcm to have a sixth gear. The new ratio is like haveing a nother gear between 4th and fifth. Hope this helps.

Perfect example of an internet expert.

Perfect example of an internet expert.

Edit: Deleted comments ... will revise.

2nd Edit: Mike L. exactly! Powerchoker got the "redesigned valve body to allow the transmission to use the planetary gears in a different order." part right, but the gear ratio information is dead wrong. The 5-speed OD gear ratio is 0.71. which is the same ratio for gear #5 on the 6-speed. However, the 6-speed's 2nd OD is 0.61 as DURAtotheMAX stated here ...

huh? gears 1-5 on the MW7 6-speed Ally are identical to th M74 5-speed. Gears 1-5 still use the same combinations of clutchpacks to make up those gears. 5the gear in the MW7 is .71, just like 5th gear on the M74. The TCM just applies a different combination of clutchpacks to make the .61 6th gear. Its not hydraullicly enabled on the M74 valve body because there is no passageway in the VB to allow fluid to pressurize those two specific clutchpacks at once. According to GM TIS, the only physical difference other than a new TC, is the addition of a tiny little tube (called a "6-speed-pipe" by GM) in the valve body. This little tube allows fluid to flow to the specific clutchpacks that make up the .61 6th gear... Maybe the VB is different still...but looking at the drawings, its the same.

Hey Ben,
Any word on those info. packages/CDs? Would me paying postage help accelerate delivery? Certain comments made here recently has inspired and motivated me to hash over this information to prove or disprove that this is essentially a software and controls issue and if we ever find a way around those issues, the hardware portion should be the easier part to this conversion.

Mike L.,
I asked some valve body interchangeability questions here ...

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51084&page=8

Can you please answer them. THANKS!

RacinJason73
You might as well put your deleted post back up cause we all read it. Whatever your opinion of me is your business and is fine with me. You will get no help from me.
mike

Jason-- Im really sorry about that....its totally slipped my mind! I have a lot of final exams etc coming up in the next week but I will try my best to get it in the mail by tomorrow or the next day. Just in case I dont have your address,, could you please PM it or Email it to me?

---Ben

RacinJason73
You might as well put your deleted post back up cause we all read it. Whatever your opinion of me is your business and is fine with me. You will get no help from me.
mike

I had hoped that no one did see it ... and that is exactly why I quickly revised after re-reading several posts prior to it. I am deeply sorry you read it. It was posted because I completely misread where your "internet experts" comments came from and took it as being directed to me and a few others who have been contributing to the information on this thread. Again, my apologies if I offened you. As for reposting it, I have no record of it ... as I deleted it as I mentioned in the EDIT comment. It is obviously your choice if you accept my sincere apology and help out or be scorned and not respond.

My brother just picked up an 06 LBZ, and I've got to say that sixth gear is sweet. I just wonder why this was not enabled, or at least an option from the beginning of this great engine/tranny combo.

... and to all those working toward enabling the 6 speed in the 01-05, my brother now has an 06 and I have an 05 and I'd be willing to help gather any information from these two different trucks that I can.

Jason-- CD came back to me...insufficent postage!! arrghhhhh Ill resend it tomorrow and you should get it before the end of the week...sorry about that.

--Ben

Hope It Can

nice reading would love to have the feature on my 4500 truck cruising at 75 my rpms are around 2600 so 6th gear would be awesome

Just to clarrify some of the confusion on here about changing your 5 speed to a 6 speed.


All Allison 1000 and 2000 series are capable of 6 speeds. It is not feasably possible to change a current generation 5 speed to a 6 speed. There are differences in the main cases as well as the obvious valve body configuration but the controlls are where the issue would be.

The 6 speed uses 4th generation controls and GM Lan to communicate with other controllers. There are security protocols in place that compare calibration ID's in each module to verify the software is compatable with each module. Each module sends a bit identifier along with the meassage identifier to validate the message on the CAN bus. That's the first issue.

Second, the 4th Generation TCM memory is larger than the current generation TCM so loading a 4th generation calibration into the current gen TCM would not work.

Hardware; the drivers in the current TCM are different than the 4th generation TCM so the software would not operate the drivers and set to many codes to list.

Will someone eventually figure out how to do it for a reasonable price? The hardware obsticals could be overcome but the software application would be next to impossable since you would have to modify the calibrations in every module. One other note is the 6 speed uses shift energy managment to be compatable with the 650 torque being produced out of the LBZ. It would take to long to explain all of differences but you get the idea.

Hope this helps.

thanks Tazman for clearing all that up...you answered all the questions I had about software/communication compatibilities... not the answers I wanted to hear tho!! :)

--Ben

I have been told that it IS Possible to get the proper program in the new TCM that will work with the 04/05 LLY ECMs. That really is the biggest issue. Once that's done, the rest is cake.

Just to clarrify some of the confusion on here about changing your 5 speed to a 6 speed.


All Allison 1000 and 2000 series are capable of 6 speeds. It is not feasably possible to change a current generation 5 speed to a 6 speed. There are differences in the main cases as well as the obvious valve body configuration but the controlls are where the issue would be.

The 6 speed uses 4th generation controls and GM Lan to communicate with other controllers. There are security protocols in place that compare calibration ID's in each module to verify the software is compatable with each module. Each module sends a bit identifier along with the meassage identifier to validate the message on the CAN bus. That's the first issue.

Second, the 4th Generation TCM memory is larger than the current generation TCM so loading a 4th generation calibration into the current gen TCM would not work.

Hardware; the drivers in the current TCM are different than the 4th generation TCM so the software would not operate the drivers and set to many codes to list.

Will someone eventually figure out how to do it for a reasonable price? The hardware obsticals could be overcome but the software application would be next to impossable since you would have to modify the calibrations in every module. One other note is the 6 speed uses shift energy managment to be compatable with the 650 torque being produced out of the LBZ. It would take to long to explain all of differences but you get the idea.

Hope this helps.

the person who figures this out will make a fortune!

"I have been told that it IS Possible to get the proper program in the new TCM that will work with the 04/05 LLY ECMs. That really is the biggest issue. Once that's done, the rest is cake."

Again, I will clarrify.....the current generation TCM and the 4th Generation TCM are 2 differenct animals. There are 2 many differences to list but putting a 6 speed calibration in a none 4th generation controller will not happen without someone getting assistance from GM. There is a module available that would fit the criteria needed to pull it off but no one has perfected the programming yet.

The harware obstical will be very costly and not really feasable unless you have a lot of money to throw away. Mike can probably figure out the hardware issue in time and Sun Coast is currently working on it also I think, but I don't see a cost effective way of making the changes. 6th range is already in the transmission, getting access to it is the challenge!!

Tazman10
Why do I believe you?):h :D

I realise that.... But it IS Possible to flash the proper cals into the 4th gen TCM and have it work properly with the 04/05 ECM. Yes, it would require harness changes and VB Changes, but with the proper cals in the 4th gen TCM, it would work.

[quote=Tazman10;861206Again, I will clarrify.....the current generation TCM and the 4th Generation TCM are 2 differenct animals. There are 2 many differences to list but putting a 6 speed calibration in a none 4th generation controller will not happen without someone getting assistance from GM. There is a module available that would fit the criteria needed to pull it off but no one has perfected the programming yet.

The harware obstical will be very costly and not really feasable unless you have a lot of money to throw away. Mike can probably figure out the hardware issue in time and Sun Coast is currently working on it also I think, but I don't see a cost effective way of making the changes. 6th range is already in the transmission, getting access to it is the challenge!![/quote]

I was at the SEMA show and talked with the Ally guys and there is word of a 7 speed coming out within the next year or so.

I was at the SEMA show and talked with the Ally guys and there is word of a 7 speed coming out within the next year or so.

that would persuade (spelling) me to buy a new truck!!

I was at the SEMA show and talked with the Ally guys and there is word of a 7 speed coming out within the next year or so.

If that is true; I would imagine it would be behind a smaller engine with much less tq. The only reason for more gears is to keep an engine with limited amount of tq in a better power range.
mike

If that is true; I would imagine it would be behind a smaller engine with much less tq. The only reason for more gears is to keep an engine with limited amount of tq in a better power range.
mike

Naaaaaaaa, that just means we'll be able to tow 45,000 lbs now.):h

Naaaaaaaa, that just means we'll be able to tow 45,000 lbs now.):h

AND run a 0.5 sec 60 ft!:D