Left Central Oregon for Portland after filling up with B99. About 100 miles into trip I HAD NO POWER! I could only go about 25-30 mph. I was about 100 miles from home. I limped it home after resetting the stock program from level 3 on the Hypertech. I got two codes (P0087 and P1093) both having to do with Low Fuel Pressure. I think the Biodiesel may have plugged the fuel filter but it was just changed 2,000 miles ago? Can I assume this? I will be changing the fuel filter tonight and resetting the codes.

Did I do any damage by driving it home that last 100 miles? What else should I be concerned about?

Thanks. I am trying not to panic!:eek:

Thats odd. How cold was it?

I would change out the fuel filters first thing, cut them open, take pics and document everything.

A good idea when running bio like that would be to look at it before it goes in the tank.

temp was mid 50's. Guess I should carry an extra filter???

So you bought it at the pump? biodiesel.org listed?

Ide go out and open the drain in the bottom of the fuel filter, and have a look.

Temps in the low 50's may be enough to cloud/wax certain types of BD at the percentages you were running......but it sounds like you had driven it for a while.......in that case maybe not.

Just drain that fuel filter, and post a pic of what you get.

How many miles on the truck?

Well known BD seller?

Have you been running B99 for 2k miles or did you just start?

If you just started with the pure bio then you are going to clean out your tank and plug your filter.

Temp was not likely because your fuel is up to temp 120-130F easily after 100 miles.

Too bad you do not have a nictane kit..that filter is very easy to change out in the field and is cheap.

My bet you are cleaning out your tank...bring extra filters.

Dealer is listed on biodiesel.org. Have purchased from the company before in both B20 and B100, however this was a NEW station. I seriously don't think it was the fuel. Do you think the station could make a difference? I will cut it open tomorrow. What should I look for when removing the WIC, water only or other stuff?

42K miles and have been running B20 for the last 600 miles, just tried B99 today.

Ide look out for waxy type stuff, which may not be visible from opening the WIF valve.

The best way to determine whats going on is to cut open the filter.
Acually, if youve just started running BD it may be a clogged filter.......

Oh, you will also want to use EXTREME caution if it comes to taking it to the dealer.

Got lots of blue smoke when I went up hills but smelled like bio (popcorn). I ran B100 about 3 months ago (15 gallons) and then changed my fuel filter. Only put about 2,000 miles on since then and have run B20 more than 1/2 the time. Could the filter plug that fast?

Yup, they can plug pretty quick.

But I am slightly hesitant to call the problem a plugged filter just yet. Especially since you said youve got smoke.

A plugged fuel filter slows the flow of fuel, smoke indicates too much fuel.

I did notice that my DIC was reporting 2mpg once in a while (ie lot's of fuel). Do you think it could be the filter? Should I change it anyway? If it isn't the filter what next?

Sounds more to me like an injector problem, maybe a tech can chime in for that. Isnt that code common when an injector fails or sticks open?

Either way, start with changing the filter. Keep it for later.

Check the dipstick, overfull? Smell like BD?

If the truck runs the same after you change the filter, you need to drain your tank of the B99. DO NOT GO INTO THE DSHIP WITH BIODIESEL. It will just cause a headache.

If it turns out that the dship says that your fuel is responsible for any damage done, get in touch with your BD man and tell him the good news. If it was BD, I would assume that more people than just you are affected. He is responsible for the fuel he sells. Period.

But first things first, change out that fuel filter.

Good luck!

Here is the filter. The metal shavings are from cutting it open. It had very little rust. I ran the truck around the block and it seemed fine. I am going out on the hiway tonight. Seemed to run better. Will update.

The filter only has about 2K miles on it. Does that look normal?

Filter looks ok to me. Have you checked your oil level and certain it's not overfull with fuel in the crankcase? Are you running a secondary fuel filter or only the OEM? I would definately drain that tank and put in #2 before heading to the dealer, if you have to go to the dealer.

It ain't the bio...directly. Either way burn the bio off and fill with D2...if injectors they will do a quick fuel test to check. Having a new filter in there removes all evidence...but in this case all looks good.

Good luck.

That filter looks dirty to me. :confused:

Compare to mine with 15k on it.......

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5024

Oil seems a bit full (over the F mark) and DEFINATELY smells like Biodiesel. What are the next steps? HELP :help:

Well, are you sure that the oil smells like BD, or is it just that everything around the fuel filter you just changed now smells like BD. BD is a smell that kinda sticks around on everything.........

So now it seems that youve got a tank full of stuff youve got to dump. I am not sure how to dump it, but if the fuel isnt bad, you may want to keep it all clean so that you can reuse it.

I still wonder if this is a biodiesel problem, or an injector problem.........

do you notice your oil pressure dropping from normal. What is it at idle..at speed.

Normally with D2 you see a drop if it gets into your crankcase...but with Biodiesel it may not affect it as much...specially since you are running B99.

If I were you..do not drive truck and sample the oil and get it tested. That will tell you if you got fuel in there...not sure if you have some place local that can do it.

Also...you could drain oil and refill one quart low and drive a few miles to see if it is filling up...may want to use something like Rotella.

Else...drain the tank..go to a shop for some help in getting the fuel out if you have to but get it out before going to the dealer...

Can fuel be siphoned out of our tanks? If so that would probably be the fastest/easiest. If it were my truck I would dump the biodiesel first, drain oil and take a sample ...fill with new oil/filter and #2 diesel and drive it some ...locally, and monitor oil pressure, oil level, etc.. Find someone with a scanner or Tech II and read your injector balance rates to see if there are any obvious signs of the injectors going bad. This way you get the #2 in the tank/motor ...if the truck needs to go to dealer. There is some paper towel test you can perform to tell if fuel is in the oil but forgot how it works. If you do a search I'm sure you can find it. Just my 2 cents...

Drip a drop of motor oil on a papertowel. Let it sit for a while. If there is a ring around the oil, that is pry your fuel in oil. No good.

It seems to me that bio would make your oil pressure drop the same as d2. Both are very similar viscosity. But if you are saying that your oil level is close to full, you may not be seeing the full effect just yet.

Your best bet would be to siphon the fuel from the tank, and keep it in a few 5g type jugs. Also, be sure to not let any BD get on the paint of your truck. No good.

Let us know how goes it.

I am not to sure about the Oil Pressure as I haven't had the truck that long so I don't know what it should be???

I checked the oil by pulling the stick and wiping it off with a papertowel. The towel smelled like bio BIG time. The oil was changed by the dealer I purchased it from in Feb and I haven't checked it until now. About 1/8 to 1/4 inch over the F mark.

I could siphon the fuel out if possible to save some money.

I drove the truck for over 100 miles once it started bogging down, did I do any damage?

Anyone know of someone near Portland with a tech 2 or a scanner?

:help:

It sounds like you recently purchased used???

As a check you can post the vin on the ask the techs section and you get a history of the repair...in case the injector(s) have been worked on.

The oil pressure should be around 25-30psi at hot idle...and 50-60psi at 65mph. these are approx and should help as a guide.

There was a member here (from Bend ) who drove from deep in Mexico with blown injectors changing his oil every couple hundred miles...he made it and the truck was running good when he sold it.

If it is injectors...Do not worry you are covered...just make sure you remove the evidence of the bio.

There was a member here (from Bend ) who drove from deep in Mexico with blown injectors changing his oil every couple hundred miles...he made it and the truck was running good when he sold it.

If it is injectors...Do not worry you are covered...just make sure you remove the evidence of the bio.

That was GardnerTeam who had injectors fail in Mehico and drove it home. Think he changed oil a lot along the way but made it home with no problems.

I have a laptop, software and cable capable of reading balance rates ...except I'm in Salem and probably won't get to Portland until Thursday.

Also note the balance rates needs to be read after engine is at operating temperature. This is where I thought it would be a good idea to change oil/filter after getting that bio out and driving it some. You would be on fresh oil so driving it around for a little while isn't going to hurt anything IMO. In fact, once you get the bio out I wouldn't have any reservations about taking it into the dealer and tell them exactly what happened.

You left Bend, truck got really low on power mid-trip ...you limped it home and found oil to be over full the next day, smelled like diesel, etc. Tell them you changed oil and fuel filter as a precaution but still think you have an injector problem as the fuel filter was fine.

Typically if you mention low on power they will go down the plugged fuel filter troubleshooting trail first.

It doesn't sound to me like the injectors or whatever it is has failed badly ...assuming you have an injector related problem. Some guys have had the crank case full of diesel blowing it out thru the vent tube and all over the underside of their trucks.

Have you noticed that it starts harder or smokes abnormally? I think the key words you want to mention to a dealer when you talk to them is "Low on power, oil level overfull/smells like fuel, hard starting, smokes excessively.

Is low power common with the typical injector failure? I dont think it is, but Im not sure.

Parent, have you driven the truck since you changed the fuel filter?

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18032



Is low power common with the typical injector failure? I dont think it is, but Im not sure.

Parent, have you driven the truck since you changed the fuel filter?

I have driven the truck about 10 miles since changing the filter. Mostly side streets. Seems to be very sluggish, however when I was going about 40 and went WOT it did respond. From a dead stop it seems like I am towing something. Starting seems to be OK.

Sorry if this was mentioned earlier, but the biodiesel.org website says b2 has a solvent effect that will release dirt and deposits from the fuel tank, storage tank, and fuel system, initially clogging filters.

Oil pressure is fine both at idle and at 60 mph. I am taking it to the dealer tomorrow. Assuming I can get the bio out should I worry about the oil in the crank? It still smells like bio?

That is another reason why to change the oil and filter.

If you have an injector issue...they can run tests to tell whether it be the balance rate on your injectors or a fuel flow rate(I think that is right).

Key is to complain about the common symptoms...hard starting, fuel in crankcase, smoking at idle, poor acceleration.

You can say you got scared about the fuel in the oil and changed immediately.

Remember...do not give GM a chance to deny warranty.

Taking it to the dealer tomorrow - will keep you posted! I am leaning towards injectors.

Dealer has the truck. Said I would most likely get 8 new injectors. I will update after I hear more news. By the way, the truck has 42,500 miles.

parent723, it was good meeting you this morning. I will be curious what the dealer finds as the balance rates looked "ok" with #1 being -2.9 and #8 was right at +3.0 ...still within spec. Perhaps you have a fuel leak elsewhere ... Keep us all updated. What dealer? Russ?

I ended up taking it to DSU (diesel survice unit) Peterbilt and GMC. I figured they should know a thing or two about diesels!):h

They seemed extremely willing to swap out the injectors. I called this afternoon to see if they had run any tests and the service manager told me they were ordering the injectors???? :cool2: Hope that solves the problems.

By the way, thanks for taking the time to help me out, that was awesome of you!

I wonder if they even diagnosed the truck and just ordering in anticipation of bad injectors? It's great that they took this step except I think your entitled to know what testing they did and what they found wrong. If they are "assuming" bad injectors and did not do the required test you may get new injectors and have the same problem. :( The only reason I say this is because your balance rates didn't look much different then mine ...and I know the BR are not 100% accurate in diagnosing injectors ....BUT it makes you wonder doesn't it? :)

I totally agree. I will call them tomorrow and see if they ran any test. I am a bit concerned they jumped to the conclusion that they are bad. I hope they did not just take my word for it. It seemed way to easy after all I have read!

Just talked to the shop foreman and he said the injectors were coming in next Monday. Should have them done by Wed at the latest. They gave me a free rental, oil change (probably part of the warranty on the injectors), and told me there was no deductible either (I expected to pay the $100).

This was too easy.:rolleyes:

Good to hear you were dealt with in a timely manner. Smart to go to the experienced diesel mechanics.

But I am too wondering about the balance rates. I thought that was an indication...but maybe not always.

If possible...talk to the tech and ask what he found...

Thanks

Did you take it to them with a tank full of BD?

I wonder what they will find when they open her up........

I siphoned all but 5 gallons of the Bio. I filled the remaining talk with #2 so this should have given me approximately a B20 ratio. So far they have not said anything about it.

You better check they actually did testing and are sure the injectors are bad ...it could be something else. You don't want to be a "repeat" customer in the service department :) Ask them which injector(s) they found bad and how they determined they were bad. Did you tell them we checked the balance rates?

I did tell them about the balance test we did. I am worried they just took my word for it. I took them the TSB posted by Maxpayne, told them I threw 2 codes and the oil smelled like fuel. He said "Sounds like you are getting new injectors very soon!". I called them today to ask if anything else could cause the problem and the Shop Foreman told me "nope, it's the injectors". They seem pretty sure of it. Do they print out the results when they check it with the TECH 2? Will they give me a copy if I ask? I am afraid of being a repeat customer too! What else should I do?

I just think there are more tests GM normally requires other then reading balance rates to determine injectors faulty. I've heard of a bleed-down test or something like that which is relatively time consuming. Perhaps they are just going with the odds and assuming it's injectors then spending the time to do all the tests. The balance rates we read were within GM spec.

The bleed down test is for the cp3 pump as mine was just done. They use the Tech2 and bump fuel press to 23000 (IIRC)and check to see if it holds. If it cant maintain that press your in line for a new pump.

When they take the engine apart to change the injectors what else will they SEE? Will they be into the engine far enough to see if there are other problems? I took it to the diesel service unit of Peterbilt and GMC hoping they would be more PROACTIVE at checking for the problem. Anyone have a suggestion of what I should ask them when I call Monday?

Any suggestions to post above?

I would simply ask them what tests they performed to determine the injectors are bad ...and specifically which injectors. Basically you want to make sure they diagnosed them correctly and they are certain they are the problem. I think most of the testing/diagnosis needs to be performed before it's ripped apart. I may be wrong.

Injectors are being replaced as we speak (or type)! :)

Injectors done. They want to "cold start" test it tomorrow and then I get it. I asked them if I could get a print out of all the test results. He told me that wasn't normal but they might be able to do it. He told me they would check balance rates, fuel pressure, etc. Hope it works out!

Ive got the printout from when i had mine done. They told me the same thing and looked at me like i was a lepper(sp) Said that i was the first person to ask for that paperwork. Looks like im due for my AAAA membership!

I still find it odd that your injectors went at the same time you ran B99.......

But I guess if the mechanics didnt find anything odd, no biggie.

DURATYS I think we are still accepting memberships! ):h

I will post the results after I get back from the dealership. The truck currently has about a B20 mix in it!:eek:

I don't want to hijack this thread, so if I'm out of line, tell me and I'll repost. But given that they're replacing the injectors on a 2003 with 42K miles on it (which I assume means it's out of warranty), has GM extended the injector warranty to cover '03's? I thought it only went through 2002.

As I've got a 2003, I'm very interested in this.

Engine warranty (including injectors) is 100,000 miles on all years.

Well I got the truck back. I don't notice any difference in the way it drives. The service department told me that I could not get the paperwork until it went through their warranty department which could take UP TO A MONTH!-:t

Is that normal? Seems like a long time. They also told there was only one person who could print out the results from their test on the TECH2 and he was out of the office until Monday.

Am I getting the run around? They told me they changed the oil, I will check after work to see if it has a new filter.......

So they don't know what tests they performed from memory? Hmmm ... I would think with the 7+ page TSB GM has issues on the injectors for troubleshooting problems, coupled with checklists, etc. they would know exactly what test they performed as required by GM. I would be suspicious ...time will tell I guess. Hope it was the injectors but from the info you have provided it sounds like they "assumed" they were bad.

I totally agree! Maybe I was TOO prepared when I went in. I have read the stories from some here who said it was like pulling teeth so I went loaded for BEAR!

Does the truck have a lopey idle?

I don't think so but will check when I go home tonight.

Just run alittle oil on a paper towel.like shop paper towels or restroom.Yu know the brown type.If the oil starts to soak out away from the oil.You can bet there's fuel in the oil.Real quick test for fuel in the oil.I use it all the time.Thick oil on the towel will pretty much stay put.

Just run alittle oil on a paper towel.like shop paper towels or restroom.Yu know the brown type.


Don't do it it's a trick :eek: ;)

Checked truck last night. New fuel filter and oil filter. Oil does NOT smell like fuel anymore! :D .

Truck still feels a but sluggish, especially compared to my friends LLY. His is a completely STOCK truck (2004), and mine is a stock LB7 but with 285/75 16's. Could this be the difference? From a rolling start his truck JUMPS to life and mine is like a granny getting out of a chair!

I haven't reprogrammed it yet with the Hypertech because I wanted to see if things were ok. May reprogram this weekend.

ANY THOUGHTS?!?!?!?

ttt



Checked truck last night. New fuel filter and oil filter. Oil does NOT smell like fuel anymore! :D .

Truck still feels a but sluggish, especially compared to my friends LLY. His is a completely STOCK truck (2004), and mine is a stock LB7 but with 285/75 16's. Could this be the difference? From a rolling start his truck JUMPS to life and mine is like a granny getting out of a chair!

I haven't reprogrammed it yet with the Hypertech because I wanted to see if things were ok. May reprogram this weekend.

ANY THOUGHTS?!?!?!?

Ide say run a few more miles on it and then see.....

Still on the bd? Was it clear when you took it out of the tank?

Still running on about a B20 mix. Fuel was very clear. I may run the bio up to a B40 mix, what do you think?

Could Be Injector Bleeding Back Fuel Pressure Causing A Lean Condition,had This Problem With My Truck

Well I just returned home from a weekend trip (about 500 miles). The truck was MUCH better! My mileage went from 15 mph to 20.7 mph. My average speed was 55 mph (all freeway driving). I also had the Hypertech set on Level 3! I am a happy camper now!

If you think the fuel is good, I would have no problem running B40.

Fuel (bio) ran fine through the truck. It was the same fuel I siphoned out before having the injectors replaced. This makes me think it really was the injectors and not the fuel.