I've been working on the graduation present I'm going to buy for myself, and I've finally pinned it down. 1960 Cadillac Coupe. But given that spark plugs are for chics, there's definitely going to be a diesel swap involved. At first I wanted to go for a Cummins, but I've been told the Cummins is too tall for such an application. So, I'm sticking with the General and going for either an LLY or an LBZ. And of course, dropping in a 4L80E along with it.

I don't have the tools, a garage or the time to attempt something like this, so I'll probably end up farming it out. I was planning that the swap itself (not including cost of engine and tranny), considering all the fabrication and wiring work that will have to be done, will probably run me between 2-3k. Do you guys think this about on? What are some of the challenges I'll run into with this project?

Thanks,
Bill

yeah, about 20-30k.

yeah, about 20-30k.

X2!!!!

I've been working on the graduation present I'm going to buy for myself, and I've finally pinned it down. 1960 Cadillac Coupe. But given that spark plugs are for chics, there's definitely going to be a diesel swap involved. At first I wanted to go for a Cummins, but I've been told the Cummins is too tall for such an application. So, I'm sticking with the General and going for either an LLY or an LBZ. And of course, dropping in a 4L80E along with it.

I don't have the tools, a garage or the time to attempt something like this, so I'll probably end up farming it out. I was planning that the swap itself (not including cost of engine and tranny), considering all the fabrication and wiring work that will have to be done, will probably run me between 2-3k. Do you guys think this about on? What are some of the challenges I'll run into with this project?

Thanks,
Bill

I would say that you are going to have a VERY busy schedule for the next year or so!!!!

are you all serious, you think it'll cost 20-30 THOUSAND dollars to install a duramax in a car? My ass.

Any reasonable fab shop could have one physcially mounted up in a week easily - I'm talking a 40-hr work week. With a modified wiring harness there isn't much to the wiring to get the engine and trans to function. Probably half a week to wire the entire car inside and out, front to back. Then another week for thing like radiator and intercooler and such.

So even if it took three entire weeks or 120-hrs (that sounds like a lot to me for a shop that does that kind of stuff) and a labor rate of $75/hr. is only $9K. That doesn't include the price of any parts. So maybe you all meant $20-30K including the price of the engine and trans and other things?

You'd have to detune the Duramax for the 480LE, like GM does for the vans. There are other threads here on this. The usual Allison transmission is pretty big. You'd probably end up enlarging the transmission tunnel or lifting the whole car.. ;)

What about a 6.5? There are good rebuilt units and even new builds out there. Some have plenty of power. Peninsular Diesel comes to mind, with their 300 HP version. 6.5s are also less $$$ than the 6.6s.

Just a thought.

are you all serious, you think it'll cost 20-30 THOUSAND dollars to install a duramax in a car? My ass.

Any reasonable fab shop could have one physcially mounted up in a week easily - I'm talking a 40-hr work week. With a modified wiring harness there isn't much to the wiring to get the engine and trans to function. Probably half a week to wire the entire car inside and out, front to back. Then another week for thing like radiator and intercooler and such.

So even if it took three entire weeks or 120-hrs (that sounds like a lot to me for a shop that does that kind of stuff) and a labor rate of $75/hr. is only $9K. That doesn't include the price of any parts. So maybe you all meant $20-30K including the price of the engine and trans and other things?

Remember that in a custom job like you are doing, you WILL run into issues that you didn't factor in so you need to plan for the worst. It looks good on paper but there is a BIG difference between paper and the real thing. The only way to know for sure it to start doing it and dive head first into it and hope your girlfriend/wife doesnt get too pissed off at you ( :o: Speaking from experience) and you don't completely drain your acct!

Yeah, I'm trying to plan for the worst. a buddy of mine dropped a little jappy supra engine into a little jappy truck and I think he ended up spending like $1,800. Supposedly there was a lot of fabrication involved. So 3k was actually my high estimate based off of that. 9k is a pretty penny. As for the cost of parts, it looked like there are LLYs with 60k miles or so for like 6 grand. I figured a Cadillac 390 in good condition is pretty rare and parting out that and other components I'm not going to need would probably come within a grand or two of the new engine/trans.

I know the 6.5 would be much more straightfoward, but the problem is that since I'm going to ultimately be dropping 30k into the car, I'd like something slightly more refined. The only experience I've had with that engine was riding in one with pretty high mileage. It didn't seem like something I'd want to put into a car with a really floaty suspension. I'm assuming they were like this new as well.

Too bad the 4.5 max isn't out yet, that would be sweet in an old caddy. What about a 4 cylinder cummins or one of those 4 cylinder isuzu diesels? (just a thought, I have no idea if either would fit better than a 6 cylinder cummins)

Remember that in a custom job like you are doing, you WILL run into issues that you didn't factor in so you need to plan for the worst. It looks good on paper but there is a BIG difference between paper and the real thing. The only way to know for sure it to start doing it and dive head first into it and hope your girlfriend/wife doesnt get too pissed off at you ( :o: Speaking from experience) and you don't completely drain your acct!
No kidding? Thank you for that snippet of brilliance. I build custom rides every day. I'd would be TICKLED to do that job for $15000.

15 grand? are you talking before cost overruns? I mean, I know it's involved, but I simply don't see where all that money could possibly be going to. all of the fancy stuff you're dealing with in new cars is out of the picture. no abs, airbags, traction control, I can even live without air conditioning. if hooking up gauges is a problem, I was planning on setting up a touchscreen display anyway. Since the car is a 1960, it's a 12 volt system, so you don't exactly have to rewire the entire car. You're basically taking the drivetrain out one vehicle and mounting it in another of comparable size. Is this really 190 hours worth of work for a professional with the right tools?

Too bad the 4.5 max isn't out yet, that would be sweet in an old caddy. What about a 4 cylinder cummins or one of those 4 cylinder isuzu diesels? (just a thought, I have no idea if either would fit better than a 6 cylinder cummins)I have four 4.5 motors waiting for a custom build.

I guess it really depends if you want a show car or a car you keep the hood closed and just say it has a d-max motor in it.

I have four 4.5 motors waiting for a custom build.

I guess it really depends if you want a show car or a car you keep the hood closed and just say it has a d-max motor in it.

Wait, you have four 4.5 D-Max's? Lucky SOB, I would still jump on a 4.5 Suburban.

Here a though GM, put out a seven passenger SUV that could get better than 25 mpg and watch the customer line up.

15 grand? are you talking before cost overruns? I mean, I know it's involved, but I simply don't see where all that money could possibly be going to. all of the fancy stuff you're dealing with in new cars is out of the picture. no abs, airbags, traction control, I can even live without air conditioning. if hooking up gauges is a problem, I was planning on setting up a touchscreen display anyway. Since the car is a 1960, it's a 12 volt system, so you don't exactly have to rewire the entire car. You're basically taking the drivetrain out one vehicle and mounting it in another of comparable size. Is this really 190 hours worth of work for a professional with the right tools?

Maybe I'm out of touch with reality but no, I can not see where it is that kind of man hours to that for full blown fab shop that does that stuff everyday. There's just no way. Hell, they did a whole entire impala (or maybe it was the chevelle??) on Pimp My Ride in a weekend then went and smoked a lambo on the third day!! It can be done and they sure weren't afraid to open the hood to show that bich off!!

if you want a unique engine try finding something like a VM Motori or a John Deere that has a common rail injection system. Look on a diesel engine trader site there are lots of options!

Justin

Maybe I'm out of touch with reality but no, I can not see where it is that kind of man hours to that for full blown fab shop that does that stuff everyday. There's just no way. Hell, they did a whole entire impala (or maybe it was the chevelle??) on Pimp My Ride in a weekend then went and smoked a lambo on the third day!! It can be done and they sure weren't afraid to open the hood to show that bich off!!And i would bet you couldnt hire that shop for $75 per man hour. And i wouldnt believe they could do it in two days. Hell ive seen them build a car in an hour. lol

You get out here in the middle of no-where and you can hire a shop at $50hr. I pay my shop that does repairs I can't do $50hr and he's the best around :D.

You get out here in the middle of no-where and you can hire a shop at $50hr. I pay my shop that does repairs I can't do $50hr and he's the best around :D.But he is not Pimp My Ride.

There are so many different views in this thread.

Im sure you could hire one guy at $20 an hour an have him drop a motor in a car in a weekend, Not sure what it will look like. Than you also could hire a professional shop at $120 an hour and could take six months to do the job. One car will be worth very little more than you started with and the other will be worth more than i could afford.

With all the fabrication involved...... measuring, fitting, modifying, moving things around.....and all the electronic stuff to get working.....at only 2K-3K I think you're dreaming. You want it done right and not just cobbled together. Has this swap ever been done before? Whoever does it won't be finding instructions in a book, he's gonna have to do the trial and error/problem solving himself. It would be a great car.....go ahead and have it done. If someone does a good job for anywhere close to $2K or $3k, tell about it and I might have one built too.

I see DIESEL 5 viewing, he has one bitching Buick with a Dmax in it. I bet he has more then the 20-30k in it.

I've been working on the graduation present I'm going to buy for myself, and I've finally pinned it down. 1960 Cadillac Coupe. But given that spark plugs are for chics, there's definitely going to be a diesel swap involved. At first I wanted to go for a Cummins, but I've been told the Cummins is too tall for such an application. So, I'm sticking with the General and going for either an LLY or an LBZ. And of course, dropping in a 4L80E along with it.

I don't have the tools, a garage or the time to attempt something like this, so I'll probably end up farming it out. I was planning that the swap itself (not including cost of engine and tranny), considering all the fabrication and wiring work that will have to be done, will probably run me between 2-3k. Do you guys think this about on? What are some of the challenges I'll run into with this project?

Thanks,
Bill

Bill,

This would cost you alot more than 3K....I would say that if you dont have at least 50K set aside for this project....don't even start.

Some of us spent 100K, 200K, and even more on these conversions.

Heck ..I'm still working on it now...spending a few grand a month..working on my upgrades...:D

Bill,

This would cost you alot more than 3K....I would say that if you dont have at least 50K set aside for this project....don't even start.

Some of us spent 100K, 200K, and even more on these conversions.

Heck ..I'm still working on it now...spending a few grand a month..working on my upgrades...:DAnd please fill them in on how many man hours a person could exspect to put into a project like this. ;)

I am no expert in this matter but I have done a few conversions in my day and the cheapest one to leave my shop was $35K+. If you look in my garage you will see one I did two years ago out of a 67RSCamaro with a 2003 5.3L/4L60E Tahoe 2wd drivetrain with ALL the goodies and it left the shop just under $50K. When you get into the details it adds up very quickly.

SmokeShow-The pimp my ride car that you are referring to took them alot longer than three days to build. IIRC- it was over a month in the making with a crew of their size. Took me and help from some of the guys here and there 2months to do that Camaro. Last Year we did a 1977 Datsun 280Z with a 2004 GTO 5.7L 6sp conversion and it took just over a month to finish it and was around $40K when all said and done. The guy with the camaro wants me to do a Chevy SSR/Duramax conversion next...

Bill,

This would cost you alot more than 3K....I would say that if you dont have at least 50K set aside for this project....don't even start.

Some of us spent 100K, 200K, and even more on these conversions.

Heck ..I'm still working on it now...spending a few grand a month..working on my upgrades...:D


No, I agree at this point it would definitely be more than three grand and that that was for sure a wild eyed dream. But from my perspective, before cost overruns, you're looking at fabrication, moving the radiator, putting in a new fuel tank, reprogramming the pcm and the putting in the drivetrain from a vehicle of comparable size. I've seen plenty of people online do similar conversions themselves. 100k at $80 an hour that's 1,250 hours. I know a guy that buys army surplus 6.5s and puts them in all kinds of different vehicles. He did it with a jeep in a couple of months (only weekends) if I remember correctly.

Also, that grand national is sick. What do you have in it?


Mark, when you say $35k is that just labor, or are you including cost of the drivetrain?

No, I agree at this point it would definitely be more than three grand and that that was for sure a wild eyed dream. But from my perspective, before cost overruns, you're looking at fabrication, moving the radiator, putting in a new fuel tank, reprogramming the pcm and the putting in the drivetrain from a vehicle of comparable size. I've seen plenty of people online do similar conversions themselves. 100k at $80 an hour that's 1,250 hours. I know a guy that buys army surplus 6.5s and puts them in all kinds of different vehicles. He did it with a jeep in a couple of months (only weekends) if I remember correctly.

You really have no idea.

I am no expert in this matter but I have done a few conversions in my day and the cheapest one to leave my shop was $35K+. If you look in my garage you will see one I did two years ago out of a 67RSCamaro with a 2003 5.3L/4L60E Tahoe 2wd drivetrain with ALL the goodies and it left the shop just under $50K. When you get into the details it adds up very quickly.

SmokeShow-The pimp my ride car that you are referring to took them alot longer than three days to build. IIRC- it was over a month in the making with a crew of their size. Took me and help from some of the guys here and there 2months to do that Camaro. Last Year we did a 1977 Datsun 280Z with a 2004 GTO 5.7L 6sp conversion and it took just over a month to finish it and was around $40K when all said and done. The guy with the camaro wants me to do a Chevy SSR/Duramax conversion next...

Duramax/SSR? I would love to see that squeezed in there.

I had close to 400 hours into my BURB doing it all myself, and I'm pretty damn capable with tools and shop equipment and don't play around. This did include building the ALLISON and doing the headgaskets on the engine as well as changing the gears front and rear, but you don't realize how much time it takes unless you're working on it for 10-14 hours a day non stop and watch the weeks go by. The wiring was actually the easy part, it was all the accesories and oh shit's that you run into. Not to mention all the putting everything in to take measurements and build supports and fit everything. I wouldn't even consider doing one for somebody else for less than $10K and that wouldn't entail any of the engine work or tranny build.

Man, well I guess that pretty much kills the dream. I had figured that if I kept it for 100,000 miles, up to 15k on the swap would be worth it given the terrible mileage and need for leaded gas. But if that's just labor it sounds cheaper just to refurbish my 300sd as well and not put the caddy in heavy rotation. I just hate driving a foreign car most of the time. It makes it difficult to justify to my passengers when I slow down to spit on Toyota Tundras.

Diesel World magazine just came out with an article about a 12V Cummins powered '65 Caddy.

Man, well I guess that pretty much kills the dream. I had figured that if I kept it for 100,000 miles, up to 15k on the swap would be worth it given the terrible mileage and need for leaded gas. But if that's just labor it sounds cheaper just to refurbish my 300sd as well and not put the caddy in heavy rotation. I just hate driving a foreign car most of the time. It makes it difficult to justify to my passengers when I slow down to spit on Toyota Tundras.

If your heart is set on the Caddy, and fuel mileage is the goal, consider the non-turbo 6.2; lots less fabrication (i.e.no intercooler, simpler electronics, etc) you might be able to find one mil surplus.

*chomp* ah chit, I think I chipped a tooth on my crispy crow.


While I'm still not convinced it will cost as much as some have suggested, I did make BIG error in my estimation previously. :( Oops. In my labor cost estimate, I only figured it as one person billing out X rate however we were talking about complete fab shops, comprised of more than one guy, rather more like 5-10 or maybe even more if it's really big shop. So my billing estimate was erroniously figured based on shop hours, rather than man hours. That's a numbskull mistake on my part. :D I'm not going back to see how many hours I estimate but if it take as team of 5 people a month (160hrs a month)to do EVERYTHING and the billing rate average for each one is $50/hr. It's 160hrs x 5 people x $50/hr = $40,000. Clearly, that doesn't even take into account any parts costs. Now I still don't know if it should take a shop that's setup to do that sort of thing 800 man hours (160hrs x 5 people) but that's just completely dependent upon exactly what all the shop is doing. If they are building a show vehicle, yeah, a month probably isn't even enough time. If it's just a putting it together to look factory-ish and a dependable driver, then I'd think it might not take 800 man-hours of work.


Sorry for the error, apparently some of the estimates posted aren't so far off from reality. ;)


C-ya