How many of us have been through the great injector delema?
I'll start I guess. 02 GMC 60,000 miles and as of right now I don't know which ones are bad. should get it back wendsday. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Tell us your milage and which ones failed and how many times. I think we all want to know.
Scott Edited by: Texas Red Wagon

I cant remember everyone of them, but here are a few in recent memory


2003 9000 miles 4 injectors
2001 75000 miles 8 injectors
2001 60k 2
2001 45k three visits, total of 6
2001 23K 2
2001 225k 8
2001 140K 5 already had the other 3 ata different dealer


i know there are more, those are just the ones i remembers specifics on

2001 75,000 miles 1

'04 884 miles 2 injectors (#'s 4 and 5) and one return line.

9 out of 350,000 isn't bad. Not worth worrying over. Yeah, I know there is more than 9, but I bet if you look at the big picture, the numbers are not all that great.

9 out of 350,000 isn't bad. Not worth worrying over. Yeah, I know there is more than 9, but I bet if you look at the big picture, the numbers are not all that great.I have to agree, my injector jobs come from a 500 or so mile radius from the dealer so I may tend to do a bit more then most dealers, but overall, problem is , I think, smaller then suspected

WELL LETS see how small. In two days we got 5 trucks with problems.....and the subject title doesn't even have "injectors" in it!


I would change "how many" to "injector problems" ( better for search IMHO).


ANYWAYS


2001 GMC 3500 CREW CAB DURAMAX 75000miles 3 return lines then back for 6 injectors, now back for more trouble shooting. Total time without work truck 3 weeks...Do you want to know $$$ lost?


2003 GMC 3500 REG CAB Duramax 15000miles 3 fuel filter changes so far!


If you really wanna see alot of articles...go to GOOGLE and type in GM Duramax injector problems or something like that.


LOYAL GM CUSTOMER SINCE 1984 Edited by: Gradyghost

9k miles 4 injectors


23K 2
45k three visits, total of 6
60k 2


75k miles 8 injectors



140K 8


225k 8


We need more data but so far it's a frightening trend, directly proportional to truck mileage. Trucks with higher miles need more injectors replaced. With this data, all 8 injectors fail at anything over 75k miles. Could this be more than GM policy to replace all injectors when mileage creeps over 75k? Otherwise this data looks like a test beyond a component's expected life.


Edited by: Ray403Dmax

Title changed, should of stated it that way the first time i guess.
Scott

62,000 miles 0

We need more data but so far it's a frightening trend, directly proportional to truck mileage. Trucks with higher miles need more injectors replaced. With this data, all 8 injectors fail at anything over 75k miles. Could this be more than GM policy to replace all injectors when mileage creeps over 75k? Otherwise this data looks like a test beyond a component's expected life.




You would have to compare that data with the trucks that haven't had problems at similar mileage.

The ultimate key here for the future is cost and frequency. All complicated mechanical machines have their short term and long term durability components. It looks as though in modern diesels it is the injector that is the short term component.

There was talk about lowering injector costs. If you look at the premium we pay just to get the engine initially then the projected cost..... GM better be careful cause they aren't the only bean counters in this world.

2003 3500 dullie 20+ injectors, 2 pumps , two modules and 2 encoder motors on 4x4 ----88,000 miles and having problems again ???

Cowboy2970,


You have had almost 3 full sets of injectors replaced? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif That just totally blows my mind. How could you not have a new truck at this point?


No one denies the problems but that just seems insane.

cowboy - my god, what kind of fuel are you using?

You would have to compare that data with the trucks that haven't had problems at similar mileage.


To me, that would be a statistic of overall reliability.


It would be good to hear from a quality/reliability engineer, but I'd bet as the name implies, failure analysis is performed only on failure data. And for a company to stay in business, component failures need to be low probability and random occurance over the component's lifespan (aka warranty period). This data may be low probability with a mileage dependence well within the expected injector lifespan. Of course, we would expect strong mileage dependence beyond the warranty period, but not during.


Edited by: Ray403Dmax

cowboy,


Sorry to hear that. You may be GM's injector failure poster boy. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

2003 3500 dullie 20+ injectors, 2 pumps , two modules and 2 encoder motors on 4x4 ----88,000 miles and having problems again ???

You bess fine yoself anotha dealer caus da one workin on yo truck is prolly breakin more then he fixin


Edited by: hoot

I searched the www and found quite a few people who are putting together lawsuits against GM. I did give them this web site address. Can you say class action?

3,875 miles no injectors................STOP IT NOW I AM PARANOID, INSTEAD OF ENJOYING MY TRUCK I AM MORE WORRIED WHEN THE (injector)"BOMB" WILL DROPhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

I searched the www and found quite a few people who are putting together lawsuits against GM. I did give them this web site address. Can you say class action?

Be careful cause there are lawsuits with regards to some gas engine injectors.... no comparison there.

21k No problems other than the steering shaft and spring clunk. Just getting involved early. Maybe a recall or at least an affordable replacement. If it is cheap enough you could do it before the big bomb drops. Edited by: Bronco

hey hoot how bout a poll for "everyone who logs on here" with a diesel who has had good luck~~!!!


1. how long owned?


2.any engine problems


3. would or did you buy another


let's be positive!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

Yeah - you know about the "squeaky wheel" thing right? ;)

1. 1 year, 2 months

1a. 34,900 miles

2. absolutely none

3. I hope I don't have to... lolEdited by: conradv

I forgot.........


1. 4 months


2. one brake booster, a set of wiper blades, and a new bumper to replace the new rusted one.


3.I would buy another but I have 5 years and 9 months more payments to gohttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif still love my truckhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

1. 6 months and 10500 miles.


2. Oil pan gasket.


3. Yes... so far, But I gotta admit this whole injector thing is scaring me!!

1. 20 months, 55,000 miles.


2. No engine problems at all. Only problem was faulty voltmeter.


3. Yes I would, but not until this one wears out.

Uh, about 500 miles, one month, only problem so far was leaking fill plug on rear diff. Tightened, but not sure if it needs a seal on it or what. To the Dealer Friday.


Ask me in a year if I would buy another one


You guys got me sweating enough to get a secondary fuel filter though!!! The only other person I know with the Duramax has an '01, had injector problems at 60,000 miles.


Wonder if that longer filter on the LLY is more efficient than the LBY and if it will fit the LBY?Edited by: srode

1. 7 months 7K miles


2. Only problem, weak AC (easy dealer fix when given TSB & experience of others here). No sweat, I just took the wise counsel of the posts here & added the CAT 0749 pre OEM to do my part even if GM doesn't do their's. They built it but it's my $40K+.


3. I would buy another but expect it will be awhile so if something better from GM becomes available I'd buy it. If not and I have too much trouble with the dmax, I'll keep driving my 85 6.2L cause I can't sell it.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

1. 1 year 8 months


2. 33,500


3. No problems at all. Would buy another one if this one will last 200,000.


4. It is a shame that we have to worry about this diesel engine getting to 100,000 and now days any gas motor out there will get you to 250,000 with the propper maintance. Something wrong with this picture.

2 years / 3 months


76,000 miles


No injectors


Other than lubes, filters and reflashes: some bulbs, one set of tires and a serpentine belt tensioner.


What the problem is?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

9 months. Got it used. has 60,000 miles now. I put 20,000 on it.
No injector problems.

Dealer looked up records- in once for dead PRND indicator since new.
My remote door locker thingy quit working and I needed a spare key.

Did have front-end problems. DM too heavy? At least the alignment guy told me he has had lots of GM's with the DM in for worn out idler arms and bearing asamblies.
Yes, I would get another one.
Boss has 03 DM/A CC sb. 30,000 mles and no problems except for a fwd switch shorted out due to carwash guy squirting armor all in it.

1 year 9 months

75000+ hard miles

NO injectors replaced, stock fuel system

I beat the *#$% out of it dragracing, truckpulling, towing heavy and daily driving


125,000 duramax motors built per year for 3 years x 8 injectors = 3,000,000

a 1% failure rate would be 30,000 failed injectors and I think we're far below that Edited by: mtomac

48,000 miles in 2 years 7 months


One leaky injection pump.


No injectors


I don't think I ever really thought this truck would last forever and depending on what day you ask, I am not terrbly freaked about the injectors. Stuff breaks and wears out. What I am freaked about is what it costs to replace them!


LeeEdited by: glclary

Mtomac.......


Interesting observation.....


Some faults that I see.


1. Really 375000 Duramaxes built so far?


2. ARe we far below the 1%. Is that a fact?


3. Is 1% an acceptable amount?


4. Seeing as most injector problems occur at higher mileage.....how many of those supposed 375000 duramaxes are at that high mileage?


If for example most injector problems occur at 70000miles plus. Lets see how many duramaxes at 70000 miles have had injector problems. I bet its is way above the 'acceptable level'.


I am no engineer but I am sure there is an equation for figureing out an accepatable amount (%) of failure.


AS I have said in other posts I ignored injector posts before I had problems. I even said things like "74000 miles so far and no problems" Well since my 2001 with 75000 miles went down for 3 weeks with injector problems and is now back in the shop. I do now pay more attention.

I,m a newbie here, and how do you tell if a injector{s} are bad.


Ron

Welcome Ron. The usual indicators of bad injectors are: white or black smoke, rough idling, knocking or rough running at speed. Extreme cases of injector leakage have resulted in fuel leaks into the crankcase and onto the engine. A stuck open injector can actually burn through the top of a piston. Poor or degrading injectors can be diagnosed electronically with a scan tool for balance rates and technicians can do a fuel return volume measurement test.

have had truck for 2 years and 2 months


52,000+ miles


No injector problems to date (but must admit that lately I have been thinking about it)..... in fact, zero engine/transmission issues to date


Added a Post OEM Mega just over 10,000 miles ago .... wish I had done so sooner.


Jim

I'm one of Eric's statistics. Sold the truck at 160K when it looked like it needed either an injector pump, computer and/or new Allison. Just could not afford to keep spending major dollars searching for the problem when it's out of warranty.


1st injector went at 117,000. Next one went at 124,000. Then 128,000 and then Eric did the rest at 140,000. When I unloaded it the injectors were all working, just nothing else was.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

DID you have to pay to have injectors repaired/replaced?

So far at 16 months, 33,500 miles. No injector problems and life is good. Hope to say the same after 100K. About ready to change both fuel filters but will have to wait until duck season is over. Then the truck will get babied again.

7 Months -9200 Mi.


No problems


Yes, I'd buy another.


I just replaced the fuel filter and found a fair amount of rust .... no friend to our injectors!! Recently started using an additive to deal with water and adding Pre OEM Cat very soon!


Two things would/will be interesting to see. 1)how trucks with added filtration do after higher milage. and 2) maint. and or demographic info. (I know it won't happen). It seems like the higher milage trucks have larger #s of injectors replaced. Would be nice to see if someone were going with GM recommended filter replacement and not running an additive vs those who are more "particular"? Unfortunately, we learn from trouble we experience or that of others. Who knows the real scope..... you can't worry too much but, "Just because your paranoid doesn't mean there not out to get you". Just my .02


Doing what I can to make it see high milage and loving driving it!


Mike

dont own a d/max work on them every day. i have seen a few injector problems maybe 20 or so. most diag lead only to one injector. i have replace return lines due to being lose. a few injection pumps. injectors are ok the big stress is gm's diag for them and of corse the fix. the techs less trained or qualified due not take the time who would gm pasy jack to diag and fix so i think to many techs look for a diag answer and aim pull trigger to only shoot themself in the leg.d/max is a bad ace truck will be around for a long time. the lly motor only advances the technology of the diesel. remember it seemed only like yesterday 6.2 rulled the underhood.

1. 6 months


2. 7k miles


3. No problems and runs smooth as silk. Engine and fuel system is stock. Engine does run smoother with stanadyne additive.


Toyota pissed me off and boy am I glad they did (messed up my 4runner for rear spring recall). I drove toyotas for 20 years and now love my chevy. I can't believe how many times in a week I will say "Did I mention to you that I love my truck" I actually love going to work in the morning because I get to drive my truck to get there!!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


I like my chevy dealer too. I like them much better than the toyota dealer that I dealt with across the street. With toyota, I paid alot for the perception of quality. The first time I called them on something not being right I got told there was nothing wrong with my 4Runner and by the way they did it for free so I shouldn't complain (the rear end was an inch and half lower in the back after they "fixed" it for me).


I have no regrets and would definitely make the same decision again. Love the truck. Love the motor. Love the transmission. Love talking to you guys about it!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


jeffEdited by: dmax lover

My 03 has been flawless...five months and 10k later and not one hiccup. Installed a pre Racor at 3,500mi. I still find my self taking the long way, I just can't get enough of this truck!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

jeff i work at carr next to toyota. if your going to carr for work come buy say high . need juice i can get it from work they will charge you $800 installed i think. i can get juice for about $400. need help with your d/max come in to carr say high.

had my 2004 2-3 months now and tacked on 2500+ miles. Just got her back from the dealer. Got a new tank sending unit. She was stuck on full and wouldn't drop below 3/4 tank.


Note: while chatting with the shop super. he said an 01 was in with 8 bad injectors. Also said truck wasn't maintained well. (I want to say it was a $5000 job. Sound right?)


Note 2: owned my 02 8.1L for 2 years and sold it at 24,000miles. It got a new driver window motor, and a new engine rear main seal. That was a first at my dealership. Oh and a funny time was that I was the first truck to get the Allison filter and fluid changed out at that dealer. They first charged me $250. Seemed they just rang it up like it was any old auto trans till I told them they needed to rethink it. Opps. "yes sir it is cheaper to do the Allison than the regular auto trans." Got a huge credit.


cmc

My 01 Chevy 3500 had one injector on #1 cylinder replaced at 95-98,000 or so. Sold with 123,000....still running good


My 01 GMC has had one loose wire on top of injector #3 that caused the truck to go into limp mode. Also one belt tensioner too. Solid truck otherwise at 80,000.

2 years, 2½ months with just under 57K. No drivetrain problems of any sort, other than getting it reflashed. Runs stronger than ever.

2002, Built October "01"


Owned 26 Months, 38K miles, pulled 10K 5ver about 6K miles


Runs Great, Never been in for any repairs, (presently leaky rear axil oil seal) Perform all PM's myself


Mega post OEM for last 8K


Used FPPF Total Power and 8+ Cetane every tank


I tend to believe the "Squeeky Wheel" thing, you here less from those with no problems

2002 chevy duramax


85000 miles


pull 15000 +


six injector changes ,little as two at a time up to six at oncehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gifhttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif

jeff i work at carr next to toyota. if your going to carr for work come buy say high . need juice i can get it from work they will charge you $800 installed i think. i can get juice for about $400. need help with your d/max come in to carr say high.


Are you the devil? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif Are you trying to tempt me?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif


I was actually at Carr Chevrolet yesterday having my rear differential fluid changed. I was going to "gypy lube" for oil changes for convenience. After they put wrong gear oil in the rear end - I won't be back there, except one trip to demand a refund.


My great experience with the truck started at Carr Chevrolet- great buying experience. I usually use brokers so I don't have to waste an afternoon negotiating. I won't have to do that anymore... I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that place to a friend.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Great service. They have messed up billing a little, but it gave them an opportunity to show me that they will stretch to "make it right". My service writer yesterday was great -> he gets an A+ from me on the little card I mail with feedback.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


And now back to your regularly scheduled programming... (injectors anyone?)


thanks!,


jeff


Edited by: dmax lover

Had mine about 17 months (very early '03) and 23,000 miles. Had the Service 4WD light come on and an intermittent electrical problem with the remote door opener and passenger window lift. Both problems fixed by the dealer. No problems with the engine at all ... should I add "so far"?

It would be a shame if the injectors turn out to be the achilles heel of these wonderful trucks. I've never enjoyed driving anything more. And the more I drive it the more I enjoy it. I don't like having that lingering doubt in the back of my mind. By the way, just to make sure nobody really relaxes, the Dodge Boys ought to be a bit paranoid, too, since they are now using virtually the same injection system on the current Cummins engine.

TC

I have an 01 3500 crew cab. I've had to replace fuel junction box in first month. At 67,000 miles i had diesel in my oil. then I had a new engine installed under warrenty, due to the diesel in oil. Now with 155,000 miles on the truck and only 43,000 on the motor I am told I need a bank of injectors replaced to the tune of $3100.00 GMC refuses to cover the injectors under warrenty due the millage on the truck.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif

Gradyghost,


Like Muleskinner above I had to pay for all the repairs, buy motels, wait days around the country, buy meals, make calls etc. Warranty runs out at 100,000 miles. The troubles did not start until 117,000.


My injector/fuel-related repair bills in the later part of '03 were just over $7,000. When I bailed out the estimate to fix the current problems was another $7,000.


If you run out off warranty get out of 'town'.

I have to agree with Tomacs comments. Suppose you drive a grand prix with a 3.8 engine. The upper intakes are prone to rotting away, filling the cyls with antifreeze, locking up the engine. Usually it can be fixed, extreme case, broken/bent rod, damaged rod bearigns.. Very typical problem


3.4 engine, same car.. Intake gaskets leak, coolant in engine and external leak, we do on average about 10 a day in our shop, some higher mile cars (over 100k) have had them replaced 2 or more times, not becuase of faulty install, but gaskets not holding up...


I think the failure rate on the above is double or triple the injector failures, and they are only warrentied to 3/36

Let me just add to my topic. I get the call Friday to pick up my truck injectors are finished. I pick it up and start down the road truck has no power and throughing out more black smoke than it does when i have the power turned on, and no boost pressure on the guage.
Go back to the dealership and to make long story short. The wastegate seems to be frozen stuck, and according to a real Dmax tech. Yes that means now the turbo has to come out. I sure miss my truck. The dealership is do everything they can and I am not to upset yet.
Scott

I have 79,000 miles on my 01 Max, completely stock fuel system, has been over stock since i got it at 66,000 miles, I have had no injector trouble so far. I havent used any additives either.

Note 2: owned my 02 8.1L for 2 years and sold it at 24,000miles. It got a new driver window motor, and a new engine rear main seal.

What is it with the 8.1? I can't believe it's different from the Dmax in body parts, but my dad and the friend my mom and him tow with have both had the same problem you had. My dad only had 7500 miles with both items, his friend around 20,000.

my family is a gm family 3 differnt duramaxs mine,brother in law,father in law 01,02,03 no injector problems with any of them the 01 has 30000 the 02 has 20000 the 03 has 13000 miles, only problems so far is one stopped up fuel filter on the 01. the 01 and 02 both run edge box. the 03 runs stock.

ok i had rather bitch about the seat not laying back far enought to take a nap....now that really pisses me off.....8 months 30k 3 hunting clubs 1 big farm lots of ole nasty a$$ mudd,stuck in lake for 2 days b-4 got it out , very rough life.......way to heavy equipment to pull but who cares its under warranty and not a single prob but service 4wd.....i guess if i pored dirt into the tank i would have injector probs too....jus gotta make sure ya have clean fuel or add an extra filter.....

"What is it with the 8.1?"


dieselman - I've heard the window thing is common. The shop guy said it's the third one that month. Even said if I keep it I'll have another one put in it. As for the rear seal he said the one that he pulled out looked defective from the get go. Surprised it lasted me that long. Also said they haven't heard of any other rear main seals going south. You're the only one I've ever heard that had the same problem. Don't think it's to big just a coincidence.


cmc

I think many of you miss the issue. You continually reply that your truck has 20..30...50...80,000 miles on it with no problems. That MISSES THE ISSUE.


Those are NOT high mileage figures. NO Hosey. That's break-in mileage many do in the first few months of wonership. Things are under warranty and any problem is more of an inconvience.


Talk about the injectors AFTER 125,000 miles and up. Some towing drivers put that much on in a year. Then you end up with major expense and breakdown with no recourse from GM. Hell hath no fury like Duramax problems out of warranty.


Look at Eric's last post....


------------------------------------------------------------------


I have to agree with Tomacs comments. Suppose you drive a grand prix with a 3.8 engine. The upper intakes are prone to rotting away, filling the cyls with antifreeze, locking up the engine. Usually it can be fixed, extreme case, broken/bent rod, damaged rod bearigns.. Very typical problem


3.4 engine, same car.. Intake gaskets leak, coolant in engine and external leak, we do on average about 10 a day in our shop, some higher mile cars (over 100k) have had them replaced 2 or more times, not becuase of faulty install, but gaskets not holding up...


I think the failure rate on the above is double or triple the injector failures, and they are only warrentied to 3/36


----------------------------------------------------------------


Thought about this post as my wife and I watched the news at dinner tonight. Toyota is killing the U.S. automakers. I'm now thinking that GM is a company to avoid at all costs. Eric's comments pound into my head that GM is a disgrace.

Toyota is killing the U.S. automakers.



I saw an interview where the GM CEO said they will continue to use incentives. Yahoo finance reports GM auto sales for Dec were down 5% compared to Dec '02, and truck sales were down 11%. Ouch!


Ford's Dec truck sales were up 2%, with a 38% increase in the new F150, but auto sales were down 16%.


Chrysler's Dec auto sales were up 2% and trucks up 6%. I don't think Chrysler has made a profit since DaimlerChrysler was formed.

Ray403Dmax.


Want a special $3,000, "we're sorry for your troubles", incentive OVER any others on a GM vehicle? I have one in my files up north. It's good to November of '04. Didn't use it and other incentives to get my current ride.


Interesting figures you quote.


Someone here spoke of the TDR site having early Bosch injector failure topics. I just went back 11 pages and found nothing. They must be earlier than that. If it truly is the same Bosch parts system then where are the complaints from the Cummins boys?

Captainmal,


Here's a post from the Diesel Truck Resource on a '03 Cummins injector failure.


http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32521&highlight=injecto r





MikeyB

Mikeyb,


October posting, that's why I could not find it. Interesting quote from that post....


"This engine started some knocking. A tear down showed two burned valves - - the culprit was injectors. They replaced the whole head rather than repair it. The nice part was, what a beautiful piece of work that new head is."


I wonder how they "knew" the burned valves were caused by injectors. Guess that was two injectors in two different cylinders and they were exhaust valves that got too hot?


Might the cause have come from other issues? Most injector failure issues show excessive smoking after/during idle or a drop in fuel rail pressure caused by excessive return. Most people would see this and /or have a shut-down. Burning a valve could be a result of a lean mixture and injector failure. It just seems there is too much we don't know. It's the first injector issue I read about other than upgrade questions for more power.


Fellow from Dallas Dodge said all 6 injectors cost $1,200. Figured they were only a couple hundred RETAIL each.

I wonder how they "knew" the burned valves were caused by injectors. Guess that was two injectors in two different cylinders and they were exhaust valves that got too hot?


Burning a valve could be a result of a lean mixture and injector failure.


I think a stuck open injector could more likely burn an exhaust valve rather than a lean condition, Capt. I know for sure that an over-injection issue can hole a piston by maintaining too much fuel burn duration and not allowing any "cooling cycle" for the piston/cylinder between ignitions.

38,000 miles 0 injectors


You do have me scared. I just ordered a CAT fuel filter.

If it truly is the same Bosch parts system then where are the complaints from the Cummins boys?

Keep us posted capt. You know darn well it's too soon to tell. If things take a dive for you, you could very well look like an ... in the end.

Happy Shifting....


Edited by: hoot

Capt.


In the forum where you asked about the price for Bosch injectors for the Cummins, a person indicated that the price is $2400 for 6. Another indicated $4000 for 6 installed. That is substantially more that $200 a piece. This is fairly close to the price GM is charging.


Reference this link for clarification:


http://dieselram.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=000709