I'll post some more pics as progress moves along.

I'm sure it will be another nice one Paul.

no CR? Going old skool huh?

Who's adapter plate are you using, looks like a GM bolt pattern, that the SC kit?

I'm sure it will be another nice one Paul.
Thanks Josh. I am using the 12 valve because it's hard to beat the horsepower to dollar ratio. Sc kit? I use Destroked adapters in my conversions. You are correct on the bolt pattern, I am using the 4L80E & 261. I have the torsion bar crossmember done and the motor mounts should be done tomorrow.

Not trying to knock your work or anything, but why a 4L80E? Should be a nice truck when done, I just always figure if your going to make a one off why not go all the way and put an ALLISON in it and really be unique. I considered going with a P pumped 24 valve and almost made the plunge before I decided on the DMAX.

A few reasons.
1. I already own it
2. I have a Precision Industries billet converter for it.
3. The 4l80E controller is half the money of an Allison stand alone controller
4. Both the Allison and the 4l80E will not last behind a Cummins in stock form, so I might as well use whats left of this transmissions life before I rebuild it.
5. Have you seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr6hoBtZIIM
That is a 4l80E in that roadster.

Paul you have got to get some stickers made of your avatar.

I know they are using the 4L80E in a few high HP diesel apps, but all of em I have seen have been pretty lightweight. I know they say they are pretty stout except for the OD unit, but if you got some decent gears in the rear running in 3rd isn't a big deal I guess.

Not Trying to knock your build , But why ?

4. Both the Allison and the 4l80E will not last behind a Cummins in stock form, so I might as well use whats left of this transmissions life before I rebuild it.

Huh? Are you saying that an Allison will not live behind a stock cummins? or A stock allison will not live behind a built cummins.

4. Both the Allison and the 4l80E will not last behind a Cummins in stock form, so I might as well use whats left of this transmissions life before I rebuild it.

Huh? Are you saying that an Allison will not live behind a stock cummins? or A stock allison will not live behind a built cummins.

I think he meant that neither stock can handle a modded CUMMINS. I got leary of the 4L80E when my 6.5 did it in towing in OD. I know they can be built, I just didn't want to be the guinea pig to see if it could hold up to towing abuse. On the other hand though the ALLISON has had some issues behind the CUMMINS where there is no torque management, so six to one half dozen the other.

Not Trying to knock your build , But why ?
LOL. That reminds of the old man startin' a " jew, a queer and a black guy walk into the bar" joke with I'm not racist but... What would you have me do? I guess the question that I just posed to you is as rhetorical as the question you asked me.

cummins is a great power plant why not do it?

Paul you have got to get some stickers made of your avatar.
I have some coming. The shirts are already done. Do you want one? PM me you addy and I will send ya one.

neat

Sweet!

Have you ran into many problems?

No, but I have done these swaps before, so they seem to get a little easier. I'm just waiting on parts now.

Not Trying to knock your build , But why ?

I can think of 5 good reasons right now...

#5: Cummins is a better motor than a 6.0 gas found in a 2500HD
#4: Cummins builds a strong product
#3: You can pick up a 12 valve for a good price
#2: No computers in a 12 valve
#1: Why Not?? :confuzeld

As somone once told me: Different Strokes for Different Folks :D

Awesome project man!! Keep us posted.

I can confirm he does good work!

whats a 12v swap like this cost you to do, or should I say what would it cost someone else to have you do? my buddy has an 04 6.0 gasser and has been contemplating this, but he would want a manual tranny

It's not a 12'er but......It's a Chevy with a Cummins and a manual
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/garage.php?do=view&g=26597

whats a 12v swap like this cost you to do, or should I say what would it cost someone else to have you do? my buddy has an 04 6.0 gasser and has been contemplating this, but he would want a manual tranny
I'd have to figure out how long it takes me and how much I'm going to retail the parts for. I would certainly be interested in doing it. Let your friend know that I have a nice 12 valve for sale. I have done both manual and automatic/Cummins swaps in these body style trucks.
I got the motor mounts done and the new torsion bars showed up today. Here are a couple of pictures.

Nice looking project.

Sweet project.. Keep us posted and what not. Maybe for a transmission use a NV4500 that are found in many vehicles like the C2500 etc..

looks nice, lots of room under the hood now

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3371/3580983756_08d0d4d45f.jpg
:grd:

I just finished with the throttle pedal, transmission crossmember and the torsion bar crossmember. I'll be working on the mounting brackets for the TCM and cruise control module next.

lookin good man. thankfully my chummins conversion has a throttle cable :)

who did that valve cover? that thing is sweet.

I had a local machinist make it. It didn't take much for the throttle pedal/cable and since the tac module is gone iI'll have a place to mount the cruise control module.

nice. what did it run ya if you don't mind me asking.

It was $225 before drafting and sending it to the coater.

Awesome!!

lookin good

That is a cool swap. A buddy has a 12V/built 46RH in a 94 ex-6.5 truck. 1100 wheel ft lbs will strip a semi floater 14 bolt ring gear;)

I've owned two 12 valves, and I miss them, but not the truck they were in. If I had it my way, I'd have a 12V in my Chev with the Allison behind it.

hey i love this project! i was considering this exact project before i bought my d-max, but i have a dumb question... why not use the stock dodge/cummins trans? that way their wouldent be any tranny issues? can dodges trannys be built to hold up to a cummins PROPERLY!? this guys gonna get some looks at the stop light when that cummins is kracklin' at the stop light behind the generals bowtie! .... ha ha

Paul's trucks get lots of looks anyway. I had a guy chase me down to shoot the bull for a while about putting a Cummins in his truck. Apparently there is a shop in OK that does Cummins swaps but they won't work on anything but Fords.

Fords only huh.Surprise,Surprise.......

This is awesome to follow. I tow a lot with my GMC and 6.0 is ok, but I want a diesel. My choice would've been a diesel to start with but when friend said he was selling this truck I had to have it. It was in StreetTrucks Aug 2005.

How difficult is the wiring and can the stock gauge cluster be used still? Mine is an 03, so I figure it is pretty close to an 05.

Wiring is really straight forward. I plan on offering a harness for the conversion. I will try to get some video of the cluster while running. Just waiting on parts. I will post some more pictures soon.

Are you guys aware that diesel smog testing is becoming mandatory in California Jan 1, 2010 and other jurisdictions (Arizona, etc.) are following their lead ?

I think the rules allow for engine swaps where the new engine is cleaner (ie newer) than the old one but not vice versa.

How is an 05 truck going to pass with a 1998 engine ?

Just wondering...

I live in MN so the California/Arizona/? emissions requirements are not applicable to me. We don't have any emissions testing let alone diesel testing. Someone doing the conversion in a smog regulated state would obviously need to follow their states guidelines.

Its only a matter of time before they will require testing. If I were you I would stop with the 12V and pick up a 3rd gen CR so you at least have a chance at being compliant.

So let me get this right. You would suggest installing a CR in an effort to meet requirements that are not yet required? What about the cat? If that is your reasoning, than I should actually try to be 2010 emissions compliant and install a 6.7 CR with DPF and cat?
There is no plan in the near future for MN to start testing. When they do, I will be grandfathered, and at the most would have to meet emissions standards for pre-DPF installed vehicles.

You won't have to "comply" you will be grandfathered in, at the most I can see them wanting a cat only because an 05 Chevy would have had a Cat on it from the factory, don't worry about it 12v is where its at!!

CA suspened their 2010 diesel emmision standards.

So let me get this right. You would suggest installing a CR in an effort to meet requirements that are not yet required?

Yeah. Its called planning ahead.

What about the cat?

You could install that later when its necessary.

If that is your reasoning, than I should actually try to be 2010 emissions compliant and install a 6.7 CR with DPF and cat?

From what I understand an engine swap will be allowed if the swapped engine is of the same emissions bracket (year) as the original. Thus 2005 with a 2005 engine = OK. 2005 with 1998 engine = not OK. A 2010 emission compliant engine would be more than what is required.

There is no plan in the near future for MN to start testing. When they do, I will be grandfathered, and at the most would have to meet emissions standards for pre-DPF installed vehicles.

California isn't grandfathering vehicles. Everyone gets tested and part of the test is the visual inspection. It starts Jan 1, 2010. Its going to happen everywhere, sooner or later. I'd read up on what is happening in CA if I were you.

Don't shoot me, I am just the messenger.

FWIW, I have an 05 CR in a '99 SD.

Good luck.

CA suspened their 2010 diesel emmision standards.

Yes, due to economic factors. But they didn't suspend their diesel testing program. Not that I have heard. Two different things.

What the heck was the point of implementing a whole pile of emissions standards if the customers just disconnected and overrode everything ? That is why they are implementing testing programs.

None of this makes any difference to me. Do what you want. I'm just saying that you might want to research things a bit.

Explain to me how do I research regulations that have not been implemented?
Regardless, I'm grandfathered. On with the 12 valve.

Explain to me how do I research regulations that have not been implemented?

The 2010 emissions levels have not been implemented. But the 2008 and prior emissions levels all have been. It appears that your truck is a 2005 and thus it would have to adhere to the 2005 emissions certifications.

Regardless, I'm grandfathered. On with the 12 valve.

Believe what you want. Good luck.

Where are your from me2?? I'm curious why you are new here and already stiring the pot?

veterans here do the same thing just like newbies do. He has an opinion just like you and i do

I'm a Ford guy. I hang out on Powerstroke Nation.

I'm not stirring the pot. I was looking at Cummins swaps into Chevs because I might like an Allison behind my Cummins.

I just thought that people doing swaps might want to be aware of the potential for emissions problems further down the road. Nothing more.

Carry on.

I appreciate an educated opinion... but your advice has an ominous "the sky is falling" feel to it. If you are looking to install the allison behind your CR, call Scott at Destroked. He has all the parts you need.

Ok

I love the info, I have a guy bringing me a 2001 HD with blown d-max to put a 12 valve in real soon. I really appreciate you letting me piggyback your info. Makes my job a lot eaiser. Few differences that I know at this point. I will be having the TCM reflashed for a tps input only and will be running with the allison. I planned on converting to SAE 3 flywheelhousing and bellhousing but are you saying I can buy an adapter to convert the chevy bolt pattern to the cummins? Will definitly have my instrument cluster to be stock and functioning so any heads up will be really appreciated!!!!!! Like to see what you are doing!!!!!

You won't be able to reflash the TCM to run stand alone behind a Cummins. You will need to run a Destroked Allison stand-alone controller. Destroked builds billet adapters and flywheels for the Allison to Cummins conversion. I am a Distributer for Destroked and I have the rest of the conversion parts available. You will need to retain the stock ECM to run the IC and AC. The ECM will need to be flashed to remove any functions that are not needed. I add a early (00-02) gas cruise control module that bolts in place of the TAC module. Your wiring will need the following.
Oil pressure
Water temp
Coolant level
AC switch's/clutch
NSBU
Alternator, I use a GM one wire
Starter
Crank sensor (for use with AC and tach)
Unterminated keyed power/power/ground for engine/trans/fuel pump
I probably forgot something, but you get the idea.

I am a Distributer for Destroked and I have the rest of the conversion parts available.
Now I understand why you reacted so strongly to me discussing possible upcoming emissions issues.

And there are more ways to install an Allison behind a CR than using Destroked parts. I didn't use their adapter in my conversion either.

Nice job, keep the pics coming.

IMO I would reflash the PCM to a 2003-2004 Express van calibration (or an 03-07 4.3 pickup calibration), and use the cruise control module from a 2003-2004 express van (or 03+ 4.3) and NOT a cruise control module from a 1999-2002 pickup. That way the cruise control indicator on the instrument cluster will still work...kind of a trivial thing, but you've done such a nice job with all the other details so far it wold be nice to have the indicator working as well.

ben

Now I understand why you reacted so strongly to me discussing possible upcoming emissions issues.

And there are more ways to install an Allison behind a CR than using Destroked parts. I didn't use their adapter in my conversion either.
What is that supposed to mean? You said a couple of posts back that you were looking to do the conversion. Pray tell, how did you get an Allison to work in your conversion and what adapter did you use?

I was in contact with an allison employee that works in R&D and he indicated that having the tcm reflashed to us throttle input only and then put SAE 3 bellhousing on the trans that it would work, he mentioned something about having to do something different with the speed signal, but I forget what he said. Not being a know it all as I have not accomplished this yet!

Any authorized Allison dealer can re-flash the TCM... to a vin number. There are no custom flashes. You won't be able to find a strategy/vin that is close to what you are trying to use. Been there, done that. It will be calibrated for the wrong gear ratio, tire size, shift points, shift firmness, converter lock up, etc. At the end of the day, you will have a poor shifting transmission that will fail prematurely. There have been career Allison employees that have lost their job for sneaking out calibrations. Each calibration is assigned a terminal number, so the programmer can be identified. For that very reason, there are a bunch of Allison TCM'S out there that are permanently locked. Allison will create any strategy you want, as long as you are buying huge quantities of their transmissions and TCM'S (like GM for example). Allison has no interest in the aftermarket. Have you seen the diameter and thickness of a #3 adapter?

yes I have large concerns about the housing, i do however have some decent connections to allison hopefully that helps me out a little in regard to the tcm reflash! I am afraid to even ask what kind of money is involved in the aftermarket controller and adapters so I might venture on cautiously to see what I come up with, certainly will be interesting at the very least, cause you sound as if you are a voice of expierence, thus creating a fair amount of uneasiness going into this.

Have you seen the diameter and thickness of a #3 adapter?

The bolt circle diameter on an SAE #3 is 16 7/8". No big deal. SAE adapters are dead simple to make because the bolt holes are in a simple circle.

I have a ZF6 in my truck. I made my own adapter. It turned out really well. Its fairly easy if you have access to a milling machine with a DRO on it and a little CAD experience.

i do however have some decent connections to allison hopefully that helps me out a little in regard to the tcm reflash!

yeah good luck. While you're at it, see if you can get a 6-speed calibration for a 3rd gen TCM, like the one suncoast has in their 6-speed conversion kit. That whole thing went over well for everyone................

ben

Any authorized Allison dealer can re-flash the TCM... to a vin number. There are no custom flashes. You won't be able to find a strategy/vin that is close to what you are trying to use. Been there, done that. It will be calibrated for the wrong gear ratio, tire size, shift points, shift firmness, converter lock up, etc. At the end of the day, you will have a poor shifting transmission that will fail prematurely. There have been career Allison employees that have lost their job for sneaking out calibrations. Each calibration is assigned a terminal number, so the programmer can be identified. For that very reason, there are a bunch of Allison TCM'S out there that are permanently locked. Allison will create any strategy you want, as long as you are buying huge quantities of their transmissions and TCM'S (like GM for example). Allison has no interest in the aftermarket.

x2...Ive tried many times as well.

The bolt circle diameter on an SAE #3 is 16 7/8". No big deal. SAE adapters are dead simple to make because the bolt holes are in a simple circle.

I have a ZF6 in my truck. I made my own adapter. It turned out really well. Its fairly easy if you have access to a milling machine with a DRO on it and a little CAD experience.
So you have a ZF6 adapted to a #3 SAE in a 00-07 GM truck?

If you read my posts above you'd learn that I have a 3rd gen CR (05, 325/610) mated to a ZF6 in a Ford Superduty.

I'm *investigating* putting an Allison behind it.

It would be very easy to make a CR to SAE #3 adapter, for me anyway.

The question I asked was rhetorical. You do NOT have the first hand experience to be offering ANY advice regarding his Cummins to late model GM conversion.

I've never put a Cummins in a GM. Correct.

But I've built a few engine to transmission adapters and a CR adapter to SAE #3 adapter would be easy. Thus I added my experience in this area.

If you search the Dodge forums of various sites, the Dodge boys were putting Allisons behind their CRs before anyone else. The Allisons came from motorhomes and the dealers programmed them to shift just fine. A mechanical engine will be different, however. Between the ease of controlling the Allison and the possible future emission issue I would take a hard look at a CR versus a 12V.

Just my uneducated, inexperienced $0.02.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, even when the guy selling you his skinning knife says there isn't.

I'm going to invite you to stop posting on my build thread. At the same time, I'm going to suggest that you take the build it yourself route in regards to your supposed allison installation. I think you should use a motorhome strategy.
Good luck.:lol:

I think you should use a motorhome strategy.

yup! Enjoy your garbage truck/school bus type shifts! :D

And dont be surprised when you crank up the power and it burns up or you get a tie up. :thumb:

Nice conversion so far, post up some more pics.
Why use a precision converter vs a suncoast?

Precision offers the lower stall, it's billet and the money is right. I got the fuel pump bracket and the trans cooler brackets done. I'm working on the CAC tubes and the exhaust now.

Here is the picture of the TCM bracket.

>I'm going to invite you to stop posting on my build thread. At the same time, I'm going to suggest that you take the build it yourself route in regards to your supposed allison installation. I think you should use a motorhome strategy.
Good luck.:lol:
Wow really disappointed with the attitude!!!!! Thought part of doing conversions was open mindedness. Please excuse me from your thread build as well

Disappointed with my attitude? He blatantly insulted me. Open-minded? To what? I, unlike you or him, have tried getting the Allison to run stand alone. It didn't work. Why do you suppose Destroked has a stand alone controller if it is not needed? That kit came out of necessity, Scott has one in his own truck. If you want to excuse yourself from me helping you, by all means...

You must be Bens brother :rolleyes: :eek: ??

>
Wow really disappointed with the attitude!!!!! Thought part of doing conversions was open mindedness. Please excuse me from your thread build as well

Any updates here?

I noticed you went from a 6.0 gas-->5.9...can you think of any advantages/disadvantages to starting with an 8.1 gas/Ally truck?

nice work. cant wait to see it all done.

Any updates here?

I noticed you went from a 6.0 gas-->5.9...can you think of any advantages/disadvantages to starting with an 8.1 gas/Ally truck?
It's really a horse a piece. The 8.1 does share the core support with the 6.6 and having the Allison in the truck is a good place to start. The 8.1 truck will also have heavier rated torsion bars and the option for dual batteries.
nice work. cant wait to see it all done.
Thanks for the props. I am waiting on the pump and injectors. I am hoping to make smoke before new years.

Awsome build!! Any updates?

i'm getting pretty close to firing it, just finishing some small stuff. Here are some pics.

A few more

looking good man. sorry if i missed it but what intercooler u running?

looking good man. sorry if i missed it but what intercooler u running?

I'm 99.9% certain that it's a DMAX intercooler and radiator in there judging from the mounting.

Looks good Paul. The IC pipes are making me jealous!

looking good man. sorry if i missed it but what intercooler u running?
It's a Duramax cooler and radiator.
Looks good Paul. The IC pipes are making me jealous!
Wait till you see the intake tubing.:cool:

Wait till you see the intake tubing.:cool:

Oh really?

Sick!

any progress. i've got mine in :)

Got any updates for us?!

:exactly: WHAT ^^ HE ^^ ASKED!

He is no longer on the site. Tryed to screw a fellow member. See member feedback area ;)

He is no longer on the site. Tryed to screw a fellow member. See member feedback area ;)

I cant find it the thread?

It may have gotten axed. He has no contact info anymore.

I cant find it the thread?

Well that sucks, was looking forward to something cool.

Same here.

Well that sucks, was looking forward to something cool.

He got it all running a while back. The 4L80E died and he threw in an Allison. Then a piston melted. I'm not sure what the status is now.

Damn I just read through this whole thread hoping he was onto the next build and I could buy this one. Been wanting to do a conversion but would rather get one already done so I don't have so much $$ spent and a truck down during the build.

I kick myself too. About 3 years ago there was an 02 for sale in the local trader. 24V Cummins in it. D60 SFA Swap, lifted on 37's, etc. $12k obo. And it was white....Dammit. That would be like getting an 05 now.

Yeah, I bought the last one, before the '05, Paul made.