Here is a short summary of my history with Diablo Sport and the Predator...


Summer: Bought Banks exhaust, gauges, and Predator (V1.04)


Day after install of Predator: SES light on first freeway trip. Turbo overboost. I deal with this for a while.


Later on: Discover that V1.08 is coming out, and should be better with SES lights. Pay 22 bucks for shipping, wait 3 weeks, and have a updated programmer that has a HORRIBLE surge at 2200 rpm, regardless of throttle position or acceleration. Totally sucks. No SES lights in the 2 days I had it.


Later on: See that V1.10 has come out. Pay another 22 bucks to get it shipped, same thing. No SES lights, but a nasty surge.


More recent: I get on the phone with James at runninwith the devil. He tells me to send him the info to make a custom tune. I do that, wait 2 weeks for someone at Diablo Sport to send me an old version tune...


2 weeks ago: Got a 65 hp tune. Surge seems to be disguised. More gradual surge from 2100 rpm to the end. Regardless of throttle position, and acceleration. NOT turbo surge. Still not happy with that. Feels EXACTLY like the V1.04 tune. I think the tech just slopped the same version out to me to get me and James off of his back...Becase the first freeway trip I took, I got SES and turbo overboost within 3 miles. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif Just yesterday, I got MAF failure or something. Cleared them both, waiting for them to come on again.


The bottom line is that I have not been happy with this since day 1. I am lucky to have James help. My complaint is not with James, but with Diablo Sport. I have called them several times, only to be put on hold, or never have my calls returned. Never seen such incompetent customer service. I just receltly discovered that this predator is mated to my truck, so I cant even sell the damn thing.


Just thought I would tell my story, so that no one else might fall into the same trap...


Any advice/comments appreciated...

<DIV>that really sucks:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>that would make very disapointed as well, seams to me you have treid all that i would as well with a product, i guess i would see if james can send you a new unit, and then see if you can get rid of it, not to sure if i would add more time to a sad storry like that, good luck.........FRED</DIV>

mannytranny

UM ...... E-bay ..... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

I'm guessing you wish you dumped it in 30 days huh ??

Best you can do is petition James for a resolve or your money back .... Ask him to go to bat with Diablo Sport for you ....
Let them know you have "Internet" and you know how to use it ....

Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Johan Mangs
E-mail Address(es):
johan@diablosport.com

try this one

I've been in direct contact with Johan for a couple of weeks. Still throwing SES (overboost) on v1.10b. Tuner smokes like crazy on the higher tunes and it has the infamous surge...can'[t even drive it on the highway.


To make it worse, Johan sends me a custom tune that basically screws up my computer during download and I had to restore to stock to cure it. Now, I have no working tunes, no way to correct for tires.


Luckily, I broke down and bought a Quad. Everything works perfectly except I am unable to get the 110 tune installed. Some kind of flash error during the download. Quad is resolving that for me. The seat of the pants dyno feels like the predator is stronger, but it is probably because of that crazy surge. I'm so pleased with the 90hp tune on the Quad. I get better mileage than stock.

I swapped my Predator for a Quad 110 from JK.

Best thing I ever did, except for getting the Attitude!

You guys with the Quad, do you notice any more engine noise from the tune?


I've read that the Quad tune results in a little more engine noise. But define what a little more is?


One of the reasons I bought the DMAX was it's quietness in the CAB. I don't care about external noise per se, but quiet and no drone is nice for long trips.

That sucks! Sounds like they haven't got a handle on the problem. Wonder if Predator's problems are unique to a few Dmax trucks? Prior to release of the Predator, many Dmax owners offered to do beta testing and, IIRC, to no avail.

You guys with the Quad, do you notice any more engine noise from the tune?


I've read that the Quad tune results in a little more engine noise. But define what a little more is?


One of the reasons I bought the DMAX was it's quietness in the CAB. I don't care about external noise per se, but quiet and no drone is nice for long trips.





I've run the Quad 70 and now the 110 tune all the time and I think it is a tad noisier, but if someone hadn't asked I doubt I would notice it.


A better test would be my wife, she prefers little to no cab noise cause she wants me listening to her. She hasn't mentioned any difference so I submit the difference is negligible.

The Predator problems seem to be associated ONLY with the CA emissions trucks. Diablo has been great to work with, and if there is a legitimate problem, they have warranteed anything that I ask, especially with a known issue like the CA emissions trucks are having.





DavesDmax,





If it is quiet that you want, then go with the Juice. There is VERY little noticeable noise increase with their programming.

Kennedy, what have you done to the transmission to make it hold that power or have you?

I noticed a slightly lounder ping-type of noise with the quad.


As of working with those with CA trucks, I would agree that they are trying (but I hate the fact that they can't seem to get it right). It also upsets me that I have to install some custom tune only to not have it be any better and I lose all of the other tunes that come on the programmer.

Yep, there are an item of negatives.

Kennedy, what have you done to the transmission to make it hold that power or have you?





I have an early version of the ATS setup at present. It's a little bit unruly, but it holds pretty well. Looking to update some hardware and software to get it smoothed out.





I do have a combo that seems to overpower it when the TCC is unlocked, but haven't verified that yet. Hoping to get my dyno going soon so I can load test it. I have dual optic tachs so I can measure wheel and engine speed to monitor slippage...

I have a quad 110 tuner, it is a tad bit noiser...but it really isn't noticable in the cab. My 110 hp tune loads, but it is DOGGY compared to the 90hp tune (which rips!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif ). I'll be calling Quad tomorrow to discuss that. I also have another interesting problem with the quad tuner. If I flash my truck for any tune other than stock, my factory fog lights quit working.....put it back to stock and they work like a champ. Interesting, huh??

My truck is not a CA truck. Bought in Colorado. No cat/egr.


That was their first excuse too.


Johan was the one that made the latest tune. Seems like a cut and paste of the V1.04. Only I got a MAF code this time. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


James is doing the best he can. He is great. I really wish I could trade it in and get a quad.


It amazes me that someone (DiabloSport) could sell a product that behaves like this. The surge is really bad. It would easily spin the rears on wet pavement in the 40 hp mode. I wonder if they even tested it on any trucks before they sold it. Even the one I have now has a surge.


This is a most irritating problem...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

I really wish I could trade it in and get a quad.


It amazes me that someone (DiabloSport) could sell a product that behaves like this. The surge is really bad. It would easily spin the rears on wet pavement in the 40 hp mode. I wonder if they even tested it on any trucks before they sold it. Even the one I have now has a surge.


This is a most irritating problem...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif








If it does not work, I'd suggest returning the vehicle to stock and returning the unit for a refund/exchange. As I stated before, Diablo has been GREAT about warranty issues...





Since it looks like your truck is a ZF, and they are in the minority by far, it may be a ZF related thing...


Edited by: Kennedy

I don't mean to sound flippant in making this next statement. But why are you fellas with problems with the Diablo, so anxious to jump to the Quad which seems to be having its own share of problems although not near to what the Diablo is having.


I am happy as a lark with my Hot Juice/Attitude and can't for the life of me figure out why you would want anything else. Lots of horsepower, lots of smoke only if you want smoke, easy to change tunes, almost every feature a person would want, can sell it when one wants AND the best customer service in the industry.


I would think for someone who has been given the runaround like this, I would want to go with someone in the industry with a proven track record in performance and top-notch customer support.

Since it looks like your truck is a ZF, and they are in the minority by far, it may be a ZF related thing...


Mine's a ZF and using the Predator it's never set an SES, with version 1.04, 1.07, and 1.10. Not sure about this surge he speaks of ... there is a strong surge in power as the tach crosses 1800 rpm, on any tune. But on mine at least, it's certainly controllable, and even kind of nice, makes the truck's acceleration seem effortless. I'd probably unload the tune for icy roads but not wet roads. I wonder if this issue of his is actually a problem or perhaps just a difference in perception. Sometimes something that's kind of nice to one person can be totally unacceptable to someone else, witness my distaste for the much heralded Quad.

However, as I stated before, I had a different issue with the Predator. The truck was occassionally reverting back to a stock level of power for no apparent reason, necessitating a reload of the tune to restore it. Seemed to be cold weather/block heater usage related, it never did this until the weather got cold. Per James' instructions, I sent it back to Diablo for an upgrade to 1.10. James offered to help me solve the issue if it persisted after the upgrade.

But in the meantime I got a Juice + Attitude, which I like better. The Attitude's on-the-fly adjustability is handy and it's fueling curves are more refined and if you turn up the low boost fueling control it's almost as responsive as the Predator. So the Predator has been relegated to diagnostic tool & speedo recal/speed limiter removal device. Which is fine, I'm not into it a whole lot and it's worth what I paid for it for those functions. It does annoy me, though, how it's married to my VIN.

Manny, if I were you I'd consider doing the same, just moving to the Juice+Atittude and using the Predator for other things. You can adjust the thing to drive however you want it to drive, and you can turn the extra power down or off when the roads are bad by just touching a button. Be advised that the performance measurement features of the Attitude do NOT work with the 6-speed. But overall, it's a very nicely engineered piece.

[/QUOTE]

However, as I stated before, I had a different issue with the Predator. The truck was occassionally reverting back to a stock level of power for no apparent reason, necessitating a reload of the tune to restore it. .

[/QUOTE]


HMmmmmmmmmm





Mac Edited by: Mackin

Oh, I kinda like the idea of havimg them buy it back. But it is older than the trial period. I bought it in June.


Does anyone think that Diablo Sport or James would buy this thing back?

Dunno what they will do, but I've had guys go from Diablo to Quad, from Quad to Diablo, and from both to Edge. If a guy has a legitimate problem, I just exchange it.





I gotta say though, Juice rules...

I gotta say though, Juice rules...





Kennedy, do you know if Edge is working on anything new?

James just sent me a new tune...Going to give it a try in the morning. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

For what its worth, I have an '02 DMax/Alli and a Predator. I have been running it almost a year now, with absolutely NO problemshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif No codes, no SES lights, no nothing. Just great power. I went from v1.03 to v1.04, then to v1.07, which I still have. I normally always run in the 120HP setting, have loads of power, and I am getting better fuel mileage on this setting than I did w/ stock, or any other tunehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif Not putting any other products down, just thought that I would share my GOOD experience w/ the Predator. DinoMaxhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I don't mean to sound flippant in making this next statement. But why are you fellas with problems with the Diablo, so anxious to jump to the Quad which seems to be having its own share of problems although not near to what the Diablo is having.





Well I can't speak for everyone else butlets take a look.


The Juice has GREAT power.


But it has no other abilities. You cannot set for different tires wheel combos. There is no code reading ability and it is real quirky trying to get the right mode set.


You also have to be REAL careful with the Juice to keep EGT's down. So now you have to get guages.


Lets look at a cost factor here.


Juice - 585.00 From Kennedy. The best place to get them.


Hot Juice - 810.00


Juice/Attitude - 825.00 On sale


Hot juice upgrade for 299.00


Take your pic. PLUS guages - 220.00


NOW for the Quadzilla tuner.


Lets see it increases power, Reads codes and has the lowest EGT's of all of them from what I have been reading, Removes the top speed limiter, and each one is adjustable with 4 power levels.


Quad tuner - 110 hp tuner - 375.00


135 hp tuner - 525.00


Maybe throw in a set of guages and you have 595.00 For tuner and guages. That will actually do you some good. I don't like the idea of being the fastest to 95mph only to have a powerchoke walk off and leave you.


Can't you hear some yahoo at the track..Yeah I can go from 0-95 in 12 seconds...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Imagine walking up to some guy claiming 425 hp on his dmax only to find out his top speed is 95..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ouch.gif


While I agree the Juice is a great box it is SERIOUSLY lacking in features as well as being WAY over priced.


Why do folks look at the Quad, Pred, Hyperteck, Superchips?


The only answer is some folks don't like to over pay for under featured.


whew..I have been wanting to say that for a LONG time. I am tired of always being called ignorant for wanting a box that actually does what I want it to.


I am now climbing OFF the soapbox and putting on the flame suit..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

All good points except for the EGT thing. I've not heard of a lot of people having EGT problems with the Juice.





As far as youtr points about tuning, some of us don't care. If I want to go 100+ MPH I'm not doing it in a truck, I'll drive my sportscar, so I don't care that the Juice doesn't break the limiter. I'm not putting 90" tall tires on my turck so I don't care that it doesn't change the speedometer.


What I do care about is that it is NOT changing the program of the stock ECU. You mention it's touchy. How about all those so called debugged boxes that freeze when the user burns the new program into the ECU?? How about the one that locks to the vin nummber and screws the owner if you want to resell the box??





To each their own. Me when I can buy a box it's a Juice and the Attitude, thak you very much.

For the faint of heart, the Juice monitors tranny slippage and saves your tranny by reducing power. Other than the Juice, I'm not sure any other box monitors the tranny. Edited by: Ray403Dmax

The writtings on the predator state that the user can fine tune air/fuel. Does this apply to the Dmax? Would this help at high altitude?

No. You cant mess with the fuel/air ratio directly...Only for gassers, I presume...

I have had a Predator since May of 03, I had the 1.04 version to start with and I did have problems with a few codes and mainly a throttle deal. I talked to James and he sent me several custom tunes around the time that the 1.08 and newer versions came out. These tunes worked flawlessly for me. I tried the 65, 100, 110, &amp; 120+ tunes, every one of the tunes works great especially the highest one! I have not sent my programmer in to be updated to a newer version. Only used custom tunes. I did not have any surging problems at all, the 120+ runs smooth and is very quick.

I have the predator and there is a surge and i have the problem of it feeling like it go's back to stock power quite often i don't know if the predator don't give full power enless up to temp kuz it hapens more with cooler weather temp gauge moves up and down maybe realated? emailed diablo twice no come back not happyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

As John mentioned the problem I had was a CA truck, and one of the first off the line for 2003, so short of taking it to Johan at Predator I doubt they would be able to fix the problems I had.

The Quad seems louder, but the radio takes care of that. I got a Quad because if the attitude ever needs to go back I have a back up.

Starting from square one, Edge/Attitude is the way to go.

I gotta say though, Juice rules...





http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs%20Up.gif


I will second that!!!!

I have the predator and there is a surge and i have the problem of it feeling like it go's back to stock power quite often i don't know if the predator don't give full power enless up to temp kuz it hapens more with cooler weather temp gauge moves up and down maybe realated? emailed diablo twice no come back not happyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif








I have a customer with a 2004 CA truck who has been working with Johan on testing some custom tunes. If he hits paydirt, I'm sure the mods will be added to a new version number. Will make note here if a revision is released.

He has sent me a few new tunes, each getting better. I got the newest one today, but I havent driven the truck with it yet.


Maybe this will be the one...

Wwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeellllll........


I have to tell you folks. Ive been playing with the new version that was sent to me by James. GOLD.


There is NO surge, and the power is pretty even and great.


It took them a while, but they got it.


No SES lights.


Im happy...Finally


A TIP:


**Go through your vendor, dont go to Diablo Sport directly.**

Great.


I hear that there are new tunes out. I call James, and he tells me that they are all based off of what I did. Well, I wrote Johan. He sent me a 40 Hp and a 65 hp. Both new versions.


Even the new 40 makes my old "65" feel like a 10 hp. Both the new tunes have a NASTY surge and are not driveable. Back to stock.


I have since written James, and johan, no responses in a week. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


I am trying to get this thing bought back. They wont even give me an answer!


All I want is something that is stock at speeds under 30 or so, and full tilt at speeds above.


Ive never done any sort of programing like this, would that be hard to do?


Pissed again. My 65 was just a very weak tune all across the board...

I was talking to James via email a few months ago about buying a predator, asked him to come close to a different advertised price (didn't even ask him to MATCH it) and never heard back fom him. In your case if that's the kind of customer service you get I'm glad he didn't reply because I would have bought one from him.

Just incase someone missed my other post...


I believe I'm the customer that John is referring to.


Version 1.11 "on my CA truck" has resolved the SES light and surge problems. Johan was a pleasure to work with. The only questions he didn't answer where questions that I did think he would answer but I had to ask anyway. My experiances with James where...I'll just say that they could have been better. In the end they supported me and all issues where worked out.

In my case, I have never seen such poor customer service from Diablo sport. I really hope this hurts them in the long run...


James is good, when I can get him to respond...

When Diablo burst on the scene a few years ago, they made some crazy claims about HP increases. Since then, I have not taken them seriously.


Anyone who tries to mislead you before the purchase will most likely mislead you after the purchase.

I have the Predator and guess I'm one of the few that have not had any problems with it. I did have a problem getting the tune to load but a 5 minute call to James resolved that and have not had any problems again. No Codes or error messages. I have not tried the 120 tune though. I'm running the 65 tune. Just wanted a little more when towing my TT.

Ive loaded and unloaded the Predator many times. It performs flawlessly for me. The tunes are decent, and well worth the money spent, but not the best. They produce good HP and respectable torque with the exception of the 120 on my truck. For some reason it is screwy.

The only reason I purchased the Predator over one of the others was for the real time monitoring.

Is it just me or are 99% of the folks having trouble with the Predator using it on California trucks?

Mine isnt a CA truck. Bought in Colorado. No emissions label...

My Dmax is not a California truck. I have the predator, bought it from James at runninwiththedevil. My truck runs excellent. No problems whatsoever. I had a slight bit of trouble getting my tire size entered correctly, emailed James and he responded within hours with the exact procedure to get my speedo accurate again.


I have absolutely no complaints with either the programmer or James, all has been good.

I havent had any complaints with James, but I sent him an email about 2 weeks ago, and havent gotten a response back yet.......


What version are you running?


V1.04 set off overboost and MAF codes about every 100 miles. V 1.08 had a terrible surge. V1.10 had a terrible surge. V 1.11 has a terrible surge. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif


Custom tunes dont have the surge, but are weak.


BTW, mine is a manual trans. If you read up a few pages, youll find my guess as to why I am having trouble...


Manual trans are harder to keep smooth...

I have version 1.10 Its been running in my truck for about 3500 miles on the 40hp tune. I dont have any surge, my pedal is a little touchy but I'm getting used to that. I'm adding gauges this week and will try the other tunes then. I dont anticipate any problems, we'll see.

I gave up on Diablo and James. The last version I had was V1.10B and the surge was too much. Now I have a $400+ code clearer. Juice is where it's at for the power