I'm starting this thread mainly for proven fuel dilution in regards to the LMM. I believe even when not running bio, fuel is getting into my oil so I sent out a sample to blackstone and will have the report back tomorrow of my oil. Has anybody else seen any proof of how much fuel is in there oil rather then speculation? I have been a speculator of this for a while now but now I want to know exactly what the numbers are; therefore, I'm doing the test.

This thread/request is specific to the LMM/LML because of regen issues.

I would also like to know about this... Please post up facts or other UOA's :D.

This is after 7500 miles running Amsoil with a bypass. Fuel is less than 1%.

Interesting, thanks for posting Josh.

No problem. Did that report look normal to you? Slick was at 13,600 when that sample went in.

Certainly doesn't look bad.

Isn't there a thread doing what you are looking for (dino vs synthetic) in maintenance and fluids?

Well, I had about 12,000 miles on my oil change, and the analysis stated over 5% fuel in the oil. If I read that right, that is about a half a quart of diesel.

Total Mileage on the truck was 17,000 something at thte time of the analysis.

Plan on doing after another 5,000 miles to see what it reads. This is my first report so far.

Running Amsoil 5W40 and EAO52 Filter.

Well, I had about 12,000 miles on my oil change, and the analysis stated over 5% fuel in the oil. If I read that right, that is about a half a quart of diesel.

Total Mileage on the truck was 17,000 something at thte time of the analysis.

Plan on doing after another 5,000 miles to see what it reads. This is my first report so far.

Running Amsoil 5W40 and EAO52 Filter.

Just a FYI. According to Amsoil, if your fuel is over 5%, you should change your oil.

I was changing the oil anyway and sent the analysis off just to see what was going on.

I was rather disturbed by the results. That is why I am planning another one after 5,000 miles.

Fuel may get into your oil, but, it does evaporate back out. All my samples were none or less than 1% for fuel in 10K changes on #2 diesel. This is over the last 100K stock except for the TD-EOC that does keep the oil cooler and that could keep more fuel in it - But more fuel from it being installed isn’t the case.

Bio is not normally detectable unless you have sent the lab a standard in some cases. Bio will show up in the oil and stay in the oil due to the DPF regen: I learned this the hard way when I had at least 2 quarts of fuel in the oil and viscosity loss at 6K. This B99 bio fuel detection was from overfilling my oil drain pan and smell...

I suppose if you do a lot of short trips this fuel % may change. Most of mine is long freeway, many stops in town and then long freeway all while towing. Even traveling the USA and Canada with 5th wheels did not affect the fuel %.

Simply put if you have over 1% in the oil you have another issue. (Like short trips w/o warm up or a mechanical issue.) Recall Ford allows a high fuel % in their oil.

I see where you are attempting to extend the oil drain intervals. As I am under the truck every 3 weeks changing the oil at 10K miles I would be interested in these results. But my oil samples indicate my oil is more or less done at 10K. Is isn’t the miles so much as it is the quantity of fuel burned and oil temps that affect oil life.

Fuel may get into your oil, but, it does evaporate back out.

I'm not disputing you, I'm asking a question because I honestly don't know.

If you pour some gasoline on your driveway during a hot sunny summer day, it will evaporate; if you pour diesel onto the same hot concrete you've just made a mess. It would seem to me that in a gas engine when the engine comes up to temp and the motor oil gets hot, any gasoline that gets into the motor oil would evaporate out. But diesel fuel is different than gasoline (it is an oil not a distillate) so wouldn't any diesel fuel simply mix in with the motor oil and remain there until you change your motor oil and not evaporate? Isn't that one of the considerations when formulating motor oil for duty in a diesel engine?

Fuel may get into your oil, but, it does evaporate back out. All my samples were none or less than 1% for fuel in 10K changes on #2 diesel. This is over the last 100K stock except for the TD-EOC that does keep the oil cooler and that could keep more fuel in it - But more fuel from it being installed isn’t the case.

Bio is not normally detectable unless you have sent the lab a standard in some cases. Bio will show up in the oil and stay in the oil due to the DPF regen: I learned this the hard way when I had at least 2 quarts of fuel in the oil and viscosity loss at 6K. This B99 bio fuel detection was from overfilling my oil drain pan and smell...

I suppose if you do a lot of short trips this fuel % may change. Most of mine is long freeway, many stops in town and then long freeway all while towing. Even traveling the USA and Canada with 5th wheels did not affect the fuel %.

Simply put if you have over 1% in the oil you have another issue. (Like short trips w/o warm up or a mechanical issue.) Recall Ford allows a high fuel % in their oil.

I see where you are attempting to extend the oil drain intervals. As I am under the truck every 3 weeks changing the oil at 10K miles I would be interested in these results. But my oil samples indicate my oil is more or less done at 10K. Is isn’t the miles so much as it is the quantity of fuel burned and oil temps that affect oil life.

Interesting post. I'm concerned about my fuel dilution being above normal. I just talked to blackstone and they will have my results tomorrow.

what is the boiling point of diesel? and what is the normal operating temp of the engine? thkx

what is the boiling point of diesel? and what is the normal operating temp of the engine? thkx

#2 fuel 539.6 to 640.4 F
bout 185 F
Inhalation risk
A harmful contamination of the air will not or will only very slowly be reached on evaporation of this substance at 69 F
Odd cause at about 125 F explosive vapour can form.

Boiling point and evaporating happen at different temps. So you can evaporate some diesel without boiling it. Just like the puddle of water in the driveway will dry, but, boil out of hot engine oil.

The different evaporation characteristics of B99 biodiesel is why it winds up in the oil. Not so much that it will not evaporate back out, but, that it doesn’t evaporate well on the post injection exhaust stroke regen cycle. Then the regens take longer and more B99 in the oil... But B99 is not as bad as #2 in the oil. (Not good...)

I have done Blackstone UOA'a every 10K and am now at 48K (due for one soon)

Every UOA showed fuel at zero percent, but I don't run a DPF or DOC

Just got my first results back I sent in. Had 9,000 on the oil and truck at time of change was 49,694. fuel less than 0.5%. Only thing high was copper but If I go longer on oil I will change oil filter in between times. Normally change every 7500miles but time slipped by plus a 3000 mile trip and a couple 600 mile trips. Been meaning to do this from day one but never did.

Brian

But B99 is not as bad as #2 in the oil. (Not good...)

Why??

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Boiling point and evaporating happen at different temps. So you can evaporate some diesel without boiling it. Just like the puddle of water in the driveway will dry, but, boil out of hot engine oil.

The different evaporation characteristics of B99 biodiesel is why it winds up in the oil. Not so much that it will not evaporate back out, but, that it doesn’t evaporate well on the post injection exhaust stroke regen cycle. Then the regens take longer and more B99 in the oil... But B99 is not as bad as #2 in the oil. (Not good...)


bio is less volatile than petro diesel (has higher flash point), so it makes sense that it does not evap out off engine oil at the same rate as petro diesel.

When my first sample for the new truck came back from Blackstone last year it showed some fuel in the oil, so I called Blackstone and had a long chat with one of their technical people. He confirmed that they are seeing some fuel presence in the oil samples from the LMMs, but this is not surprising really when you keep in mind that fuel is injected into the cylinders on the exhaust stroke during regeneration. It's inevitable that some evidence of this will find its way into the oil. Whether or not it will be a long term issue is yet to be determined, but the tech at Blackstone didn't think it was enough to be problematic. Time will tell.

Why??

Bio has more lubrication than #2. Still drops oil pressure...

I have over 100K with the DPF system and no fuel in oil issues. Anyone running Bio in any blend will get it in their oil. So the DPF system isn’t going to give you problems until Bio mixes are mandated.

In other words our DPF system is working and I am not so sure the other brands can claim this as well as we can. (Total waste of fuel, but not the discussion topic.)

0k-3k oil mileage (dealer change)
3k-6k oil mileage (dealer change)
6k-15k oil mileage 1 year (DIY amsoil change) with analysis taken 9k on sample
15k-18k still goin

Why wouldn't you put a little more control on this question?

First I would limit it to stock trucks, DPF intact. Another issue is idle or cold start time. It has been known for years that idle under cold conditions pollutes oil and many manufacturers especially ones who recommend 15K oil change intervals recommend no warmup time at all. Two prominient manufacturers would be BMW and MB. I suspect with higher compression that a diesel cold would actually have higher blow-by then a gas motor but this is just a guess on my part. We have all read the disclaimers about short drives and what it does to oil.

After those I would go to tune w/DPF shut off. I guess I understand your curiosity but all of this stuff is pretty much known. Think I also read that the Fords are having quite a bit of problems with post injection polluting oil.

Bio is problematic for post injection that is why the Jetta TDI and the Ford Scorpion are only going to be B5 rated. In other words the manufacturers are on top of this. Supposedly the LML has the injector in the exhaust to allow B20 operation. I myself would monitor more in the winter if your a warm up kind of guy. The warm up time is causing pollution and it would be a guess that it shortens the re-gen cycle.

When my first sample for the new truck came back from Blackstone last year it showed some fuel in the oil, so I called Blackstone and had a long chat with one of their technical people. He confirmed that they are seeing some fuel presence in the oil samples from the LMMs, but this is not surprising really when you keep in mind that fuel is injected into the cylinders on the exhaust stroke during regeneration. It's inevitable that some evidence of this will find its way into the oil. Whether or not it will be a long term issue is yet to be determined, but the tech at Blackstone didn't think it was enough to be problematic. Time will tell.

Curious, at what point does the fuel % become problematic?

Why wouldn't you put a little more control on this question?

First I would limit it to stock trucks, DPF intact. Another issue is idle or cold start time. It has been known for years that idle under cold conditions pollutes oil and many manufacturers especially ones who recommend 15K oil change intervals recommend no warmup time at all. Two prominient manufacturers would be BMW and MB. I suspect with higher compression that a diesel cold would actually have higher blow-by then a gas motor but this is just a guess on my part. We have all read the disclaimers about short drives and what it does to oil.

After those I would go to tune w/DPF shut off. I guess I understand your curiosity but all of this stuff is pretty much known. Think I also read that the Fords are having quite a bit of problems with post injection polluting oil.

Bio is problematic for post injection that is why the Jetta TDI and the Ford Scorpion are only going to be B5 rated. In other words the manufacturers are on top of this. Supposedly the LML has the injector in the exhaust to allow B20 operation. I myself would monitor more in the winter if your a warm up kind of guy. The warm up time is causing pollution and it would be a guess that it shortens the re-gen cycle.

This thread is basically only for stock trucks with a dpf as a modified truck with no dpf wouldn't have this problem with regen and fuel getting into the oil. Here is my long awaited oil report.

92196

Odd, for the trucks with the DPF attached it seems the fuel % in the oil is miniscule! Considering how things are supposed to work this makes little sense.

I just looked at one my last Blackstone analysis....19000 miles on oil.....fuel is less than <0.5%....

Blackstone states that the average is <2.0%.....

I'm running no DPF but otherwise stock...

Odd, for the trucks with the DPF attached it seems the fuel % in the oil is miniscule! Considering how things are supposed to work this makes little sense.
I guess you missed my post with about 12,000 miles, my fuel percentage was 5%+.

I do do a lot of short trips, but there has been a few long trips on it, I did rack that up 12,000 miles over the course of about 7 months.

Here's a copy of the first oil analysis from Blackstone for my 2008 LMM. It shows fuel at 2%, right at the maximum level before it gets suspicious, but as per my earlier post, during my discussion with the Blackstone chemist it seems reasonable that fuel in the oil will be at higher levels with the LMM because of regeneration.

Here's a copy of the first oil analysis from Blackstone for my 2008 LMM. It shows fuel at 2%, right at the maximum level before it gets suspicious, but as per my earlier post, during my discussion with the Blackstone chemist it seems reasonable that fuel in the oil will be at higher levels with the LMM because of regeneration.

Thanks for posting your results, few questions for you:
What kind of oil are you running, what kind of fuel are you running, any bio?

The oil analysis I posted was for the factory installed oil, so I don't know what it was. I'm now using Rotella T and will send in another sample when I change it, sometime during the next month. Once I get the results, I'll post them. The fuel being used is ulsd available from any gas station that happens to be convenient. I'm not faithful to any brand. No additives.

Very timely thread!

I installed the Amsoil bypass filter and synthetic CJ-4 oil at about 10K miles with the intention of extending the oil change interval while monitoring the oil health through analysis. My first two oil analysis results indicated less than 1% fuel contamination. However, the last one on 9/09 showed 5.8% fuel contamination. The last 9K miles had a mixture of local dirving and 5th wheel trips with the DPF. The delearship tested the fuel system and of course came up with no issues. I was on the fence about the DPF delete until this event. As a result it now has a MBRP turbo back and Edge CTS from
PTP.

here is also my first one too. 5400+ miles on the oil with less than .05% fuel, with only 5900+ on the motor. See following thread http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=276677

I just changed my oil at 7000 miles / 202 hours. At 6000 miles I installed a Centrifugal Filter, but it had no solids in it 30 operating hours and 1000 miles later. So I don't think the CF made a difference. The soot is low at 0.2%, so the rings probably seated OK. (??)

I installed a PCV bypass at 2000 miles.

Other than that the engine is stock. The fuel was at 3.7% after 7000 miles, so I am going to use dino oil and 5000 mile oil change intervals from now on.

Any comments from experienced owners on the attached oil analysis would be very welcome. The silicon and copper seem to be the most worrisome?

In a fairly new engine, Blackstone Labs have told me that excess silicon typically indicates sand traces in the oil left over from from casting. After break in it MIGHT mean you are getting dirt in the oil.

The last time the silicon issue was brought up I believe the intake was the most likely culprit.

This is my last three UOA. The last one was a 12K run, pulled with the oil change.

Mine is not stock, but maybe this is a reference point for someone.

This is with no DPF, no EGR, Banks CAI, and mild tune (PPE 90 at the time of this oil change). I run Chevron fuel with (advertised) 5% bio, Mobil1 TDT, and Napa filter. Most of my trips are 20 miles or less. Mileage was only 4300 on the oil, but it was 1 year's time (I don't drive this truck much, obviously).

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g167/Fulton1/silveradoUOA0510.jpg

This thread/request is specific to the LMM/LML because of regen issues.

If you do not have a DPF what good is your UOA in this thread?
__________________

This thread/request is specific to the LMM/LML because of regen issues.

If you do not have a DPF what good is your UOA in this thread?
__________________


Give the guy a break! He posted that his was not stock, and his reason for posting anyway. His reason was nothing but the spirit of swapping information - which is the main reason this forum exists. Good, detailed technical info is always welcome here. In this instance his data shows what my analysis would look like if I ditched the all the smog BS (and my warranty.) I am very interested in that data, and I'll bet many others are also.

I'll take this chance to clarify that my UOA was on my first oil change. The 7000 miles/202 hrs is the total on the truck and the factory oil.

My thanks to both of you, and to everyone else that posts useful info.

X2 the more the better! My miles are stretching out there and the warranty issue is becoming a front runner. I'm looking at a few alterations when the time comes and am very interested how uoa's are with add on's!

I bought my truck with about 20K on it and went about 1000 miles (previous owner let me know when last change was) and did an oil change and had an OA done. I came from a 6.0L Ford which the 6.0's tend to shear the oil quickly so I didn't know what the characteristics of the Dmax are so I needed a starting point.

Looks like I had some fuel in the first OA on 3/12 and he also wrote a comment about it but my next OA 5K miles later on 5/19 showed a big improvement with just a trace of fuel and more importantly to me was way less wear (copper)!

Both of these OA's were with a bone stock truck but they will be the last "stock" reports. No more DPF and still trying to find a place to mount my FS2500 bypass filter. With a Titan tank up an under and Amp steps next to the frame rail I'm running out of valuable mounting space.

(not sure how to paste a pic of the PDF)
Here's the first report with comments:
105691


And the second:
105692

It is normal for the LMM to show some fuel presence in an oil analysis because of fuel injection on exhaust strokes during regeneration. In the LML this characteristic should disappear because the fuel is injected directly into the exhuast pipe by a dedicated injector.

Hey guys,

Just had my first oil analysis done... going on holidays soon and thought I'd try it and my fumoto valve. The results seem BAD to me but I really don't understand what I'm reading...don't like the reference to glycol or cooling water.

LMM 07.5 40K miles

3K miles on this oil, not high on dipstick, Oil life meter at 58% Amsoil 5W40 w/ GM filter. Should I be concerned?

Also I may have screwed up when I took the sample as I didn't let it run at all (dumbass) So the first pint out was what was sampled & I understand you should drain a bit then take a sample.

I'm too ignorant to know the answer to your question, but I'd be worried, too.

I plan on cleaning my Fumoto with a Q-tip, then getting a mid-stream sample.

Oil99, have you been needing to top up the coolant from time to time? Under normal conditions you should not be losing any coolant whatsover. If you have been having to do a top up from time to time it is highly likely that you have a problem which I had with my truck, a failure of the exhaust gas recirculation cooler. Contact me with a private message if you have been losing coolant and I'll look up my service records to help you talk with your dealer. One comment re the oil analysis - the Blackstone Labs analysis is easier to read and they EXPLAIN THE RESULTS. Might be worth trying them next time.

One comment re the oil analysis - the Blackstone Labs analysis is easier to read and they EXPLAIN THE RESULTS. Might be worth trying them next time.

I second that, Blackstone Labs make the reports "understandable" and personalized. I have been using Blackstone since 2004 and they have been great.

Thanks for the input guys. No I haven't added any coolant and the coolant reservoir seems normal (It is about 1/2" below the cold mark) Not far enough below that I'd assume I have a leak nor do I know if it was ever spot on in the first place. Be interested though to hear about the EGR cooler leak and how it was diagnosed...was it just lack of coolant?

Not sure if I should change this oil or not. Cheeses me off since it's only 3K miles and hate to waste good oil. May consider going back to regular dino until I can determine if there is a problem.

In my case, I really didn't notice the consumption of coolant while I was using the truck around town, only doing 300 miles a month. However, as soon as I hooked up the trailer and hit the road, doing 300 to 500 miles a day, I was having to add a pint of coolant a day during travel. I searched everywhere for the "leak", looking for a loose hose connection or ??? Couldn't find anything. One of the clues that there was a tiny breach in the exhaust gas recirculation cooler was the fact that the top radiator hose remained fully expanded as the engine cooled. If everything is airtight, the hose will collapse in the middle as the engine cools due to contraction of the coolant. If your top hose remains fully expanded after cooling, ask your dealer to check the Service Bulletins for information about defective exhaust gas recirculation coolers, especially knowing that there are traces of coolant in the oil.

As for changing the oil, I'm not an expert, but I got the impression from talking with Blackstone at the time that they can see traces of chemicals in the oil that indicate coolant contamination, but that doesn't mean that the oil has lost it's lubricating characteristics, so it isn't necessary to change the oil unless other parts of the analysis show loss of those characteristics.

here you go just got it back a few days ago. Note no fuel in oil with DPF