Thinking about buying a 2009 Montana 2955RL,Shipping weight 9995#s,Carrying weight 3,910,Hitch weight 1,725,Truck i believe is 7,200,gcwr 22,000 #s,Thanks,I just have a hard time trying to figure this stuff out,LOL

You should be fine with this setup. Your truck has a GVWR of 9200 lbs. GCWR is a piece of cake...no issue there. That great Duramax engine eats into about 750 lbs of you useable truck payload, but most all that weight is over the front axle. Check the loading specs on your door pillar...that is the allowable load for your particular vehicle and will probably be between 2300 and 2500 lbs, depending on your cab/bed configuration. Dont load a bunch of stuff in the front of your 5er and make sure you keep the pin weight under 2K, and it looks like a reasonable rig.

If I'm reading it correctly, I would think it would be. It's a 5th wheel correct? Your looking at a full load weight at 13,905 based on the numbers that you have given. The only issue may be that the truck is probably rated at 9200#'s (not 7200) and weighs close to 7500. So if you have full pin weight you are going to be right at the max for the truck (based on the GVW). I still think your fine however. I end up with the truck at about 9400#'s on the truck when fully loaded and pulling my trailer (mine is a bumper pull), but none of the axles are overloaded. I have anbout 400 pounds in my tool box and another 300#s in fuel in the bed, that plus all the ice chests and such gets my truck pretty heavy, but it pulls it and feel real safe. With a 5th wheel, you'll be in even better shape than me. Good luck.

Yes it's a fifth wheel,Found out it is rated 9200 #s,Not sure on the weight,Thanks for the info

Dry weight is 10,212lbs. This includes the pin weight. Carrying capacity is 3,593, so loaded, the trailer weight could be 13,805. Your truck capacities are listed on the door. Looks like you should be OK.

http://www.tacomarv.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?veh=86672&pov=1284312

This about the same weight of mine.
Truck loves the setup.
I put airbags on but have yet to find the happy number for pressure.
I will never admit it to the wife but I probably didn't need bags.
Your good to go!

Thanks to all of your advice,I was hoping for this kind of responce,I'am also thinking about getting airbags just to be safe,Thanks again

Save the $$$- you don't need air bags.

That's a perfect load for a 3/4 ton. Enjoy!!!

OK Sounds good to me i won't get the airbags,LOL

Thanks signguy,I really don't want to spend extra money.

You need to do the numbers. The figures you mentioned are empty weights...they are manufacturer's BS wanting you to think you can use a 3/4 ton truck. Use the GW numbers (they will be the true weights when you use the 5th wheel) then see what you have...as an example, pin weight (loaded pw) is normally 20% of the trailer's weight. Using GW, that's 2800#, too much for any GM 3/4 ton diesel.

I have a Montana...no tow vehicle can pull any Montana and remain with in specs.

Don't want to buy something i will regret,How are you getting this figure?This is a light Montana.Thanks

Would this be safe?

I pull a 35' Gear Box Fiver (two axle) regularly. It is 9,000ish unloaded and 14,700 GVWR. It weighs in around 12,500 loaded with Fuel, Water (usually 75gal ish), Buggy, Etc. I generally drive the speed limit, slow down early, and have never felt unsafe. The first two years I only had a dirt bike in the back and did fine with no airbags. With the added weight of the buggy I put in a set of firestone bags and would never go back. Totally smoothed out freeway transitions while allowing me to level out the rig.

I haven't scaled the rig with the added weight but I'm sure I'm right up against my trucks GVWR and definately under GCVWR. With that in mind I feel totally "Safe".
Would a 3500 handle the weight better? Absolutely

Also, if you're in CA you need a fifth wheel endorsement. Check the RV handbook. Fifth wheel 10,000 to 14,999 needs Endorsement (written test only). 15,000 and up needs a non-commercial Class A.
Good Luck!

Don't want to buy something i will regret,How are you getting this figure?This is a light Montana.Thanks
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What he is trying to say is you need to weigh the trailer, Weigh it brand new to see if it is in your weight limits of your truck. I have boughten several trailers and none have weighed what they say, and I don't care if it comes from a family dealer, they are just trusting the manufacture. I have the same truck and it pulls my 5th wheel just beautiful. Weighing inn at 12,000 lbs loaded. Manufacture said 9400 lbs. If the trailer is within your limits run your front tires at 50 psi and the rear at 80 psi (that is with the 5th wheel attached) Put it inn tow haul and let the ally do its job. It is sweet. Good Luck.

You need to do the numbers. The figures you mentioned are empty weights...they are manufacturer's BS wanting you to think you can use a 3/4 ton truck. Use the GW numbers (they will be the true weights when you use the 5th wheel) then see what you have...as an example, pin weight (loaded pw) is normally 20% of the trailer's weight. Using GW, that's 2800#, too much for any GM 3/4 ton diesel.

I have a Montana...no tow vehicle can pull any Montana and remain with in specs.

At a recent Montana rally, I had eace wheel on the truck weighed (while hooked up) and each 5th wheel (2006 3500RL) weighed, and I am in the specs. With my wife and I in the truck, total combined weight was 75 pounds under 22,000 lbs.

Playing devils advocate as I did in my post on pin weight, can anyone here point to an example of an accident or lawsuit as the result of being a few hundred pounds over GVWR (or many hundreds of pounds overweight for that matter) Much opinion is offered in these threads about what is safe and unsafe, but Ive yet to read one in which anyone has personal experience or knowledge of a component failing, and/or an accident occuring that could be positively blamed on an overweight condition. If there are examples, posting them would help us all learn what to expect if we are overweight. Im referring to GVWR and not GCWR, thought Id also be interested in any input on over GCWR accidents as well.

No, don't know of any examples of failures due to weights, law suits or anything like that, but who want's to be the guinea pig for this example? Because no one may have example doesn't make it right to tow overweight to the point of possibly not being safe. Again, dry weights as mentioned earlier are a useless joke, dry pinweight is a useless number. When trying to figure out if your truck will carry a certain 5er, you really need to go by the 5er's GVW, and to figure out the pinweight, or get "in the ballpark",again mentioned earlier, take 20% of the GVW of the 5er and that'll get you real close to the amount of weight your going to sit in the bed of your truck. It's easier than you think to overload a 3/4 ton truck, depending on it's configuration. Same example I used on another thread in here, I had a Coachmen 3 slide 37' 5er, GVW was 14,500#, I NEVER had water in any of the tanks when towing and I never had it loaded over 13,500#. I towed this 5er with an 03 Chevy 2500HD ex-cab/shortbed/D/A 4X4, when I weighed, I was 900# over my trucks GVWR..hey, it towed great, did fine, but when I saw those weights, got to admit it worried me some, and I was under the trucks GCWR,(you'll normally go over GVWR before going over GCWR). Thus the Dually that is now in my sig. Another useless number is the one the auto manufacturer gives as to how heavy of a TT or 5er you can tow because , when it comes to a 5er, it all depends on how much weight you can put in the bed of the truck without going over the trucks GVWR.K(pinweight of the 5er).

Again, not trying to cause trouble....just being devils advocate....and agree no one wants to be the first, but hundreds, probably thousands, of Rvers have been towing over GVWR and some perhaps over GCWR for many, many years. The lack of any substantive proof of component failures certainly does not mean it cant happen, but the past being the best predictor of the future, it would seem that the spectre of component failure and or/accident does not loom as large as some doomsayers would suggest.

Don't want to buy something i will regret,How are you getting this figure?This is a light Montana.Thanks


Your golden!
Have fun!
:D

Again, not trying to cause trouble....just being devils advocate....and agree no one wants to be the first, but hundreds, probably thousands, of Rvers have been towing over GVWR and some perhaps over GCWR for many, many years. The lack of any substantive proof of component failures certainly does not mean it cant happen, but the past being the best predictor of the future, it would seem that the spectre of component failure and or/accident does not loom as large as some doomsayers would suggest.


Just because "hundreds, probably thousands" of RV'ers have been towing over GVWR for many years doesn't make it right. How do you know this for fact?? Sure a lot of them are, but there are also a lot that are trying to tow within their trucks limitations also. "The past being the best predictor" may or may not give you an idea of what has or will happen to the components in the suspension; a lot of these things are usually brought up by those who know they're overweight and looking for justificaton to do so because, "everyone else is doing it". Bottom line, it's your truck, it's your rig, it's your family in the truck while towing, "if it feels good, do it". As I stated before, I towed overweight, got to admit while towing in the mountains of WV, NC, SC, TN & VA, there were a few "white knuckle" moments, I even justified what I was doing by adding air springs to level out the load, and argued till I was "blue in the face" that everyone else was doing it...but "in my case" I was wrong, Live and learn...I bought a dually and don't wonder about "what if" anymore.
Anytime this comes up, the one's who advocate staying within the limits of ones trucks towing capacities are called the weight police and those that are towing over their trucks limits are doing the name calling or trying to justify what they're doing by using the "everyone else is doing it so what is wrong with it" philosophy. I wished I'd paid attention a little earlier to what some suggested about ones tow vehicle, it would have saved me a lot of money in the long run.......


It was asked where some "got the numbers", that this is a "light" Montana...anyone can take the model # and look up the specs..again, dryweight and dry pinweight are inanely stupid numbers...no one travles completely empty and some may be surprised if they scale their rig... I was and I STILL argued it was "ok"...You start getting over 13,000# GVW and the 5er really "isn't a light one" anymore, It's doable on some, but one needs to use their head to do the calculations and even better, a weigh station............

Towing "in the mountains" has little to do with GVWR and everything to do with GCWR.
GCWR is about the brakes, engine, transmission and rear axle ratio. GCWR doesnt care where the weight is....nor does your truck when trying to pull or stop it. I live in VA and travel in the mountains a great deal. Slowing down is my biggest concern (Im assuming your white knuckle moments were not going UP a mountain unless you had exceeded GCWR and were blocking traffic due to your lack of speed) and once my truck and trailer are ONE, the truck is trying (with the help of the trailer brakes) to stop the entire mass...not just the GVWR. Again, Im looking for a single, verifiable instance in which these overweight scenarios have caused a disaster.

Also, perhaps you should leave your home or place of work, because at any moment a meteor or aircraft could come crashing down. Forget that the odds are basically infinite again it....IT COULD HAPPEN. Sorry for the sarcasm. Still like the common sense approach. Life is flush with risk...common sense is the best insurance of all.

And remember, once you weigh your rig (and some even go so far as to claim or post overweight stats on this forum) you are now fully accountable when that big disaster happens, as it is documented, and you have admitted you know you are overweight. Were I knowingly towing overweight, I dont think I would put it on the internet. Then again, since weighing your rig is not a legal requirement for Rvers (of which I am aware) Im not sure how you CAN be held accountble for NOT knowing what it weighs. Last time I looked only commercial vehicles were being weighed in weigh stations. Accountability in law goes to prudence, reasonablity of action, due dilligence and lot of legal boundaries that are too broad to explore here.

Towing "in the mountains" has little to do with GVWR and everything to do with GCWR.
GCWR is about the brakes, engine, transmission and rear axle ratio. GCWR doesnt care where the weight is....nor does your truck when trying to pull or stop it. I live in VA and travel in the mountains a great deal. Slowing down is my biggest concern (Im assuming your white knuckle moments were not going UP a mountain unless you had exceeded GCWR and were blocking traffic due to your lack of speed) and once my truck and trailer are ONE, the truck is trying (with the help of the trailer brakes) to stop the entire mass...not just the GVWR. Again, Im looking for a single, verifiable instance in which these overweight scenarios have caused a disaster.

Also, perhaps you should leave your home or place of work, because at any moment a meteor or aircraft could come crashing down. Forget that the odds are basically infinite again it....IT COULD HAPPEN. Sorry for the sarcasm. Still like the common sense approach. Life is flush with risk...common sense is the best insurance of all.

And remember, once you weigh your rig (and some even go so far as to claim or post overweight stats on this forum) you are now fully accountable when that big disaster happens, as it is documented, and you have admitted you know you are overweight. Were I knowingly towing overweight, I dont think I would put it on the internet. Then again, since weighing your rig is not a legal requirement for Rvers (of which I am aware) Im not sure how you CAN be held accountble for NOT knowing what it weighs. Last time I looked only commercial vehicles were being weighed in weigh stations. Accountability in law goes to prudence, reasonablity of action, due dilligence and lot of legal boundaries that are too broad to explore here.


Wow, take a chill pill, what are you towing and what are you towing it with? I just hear you wanting justification for towing over one's GVWR and using a lot of legalistic jargon to intimidate. I've never been over GCWR, but have been over GVWR, which is what most will do before going over GCWR. I too, know some about towing. I've survived this long because I also practice quite a bit of "common sense". Been married 39 yrs, raised 3 kids and survived job layoffs in WV and VA and have used quite a bit of the "common sense" faction to make it to 59 years of age. I know about risk, I "JOINED" the Air Force and spent time in a place called Viet Nam, and no thanks, you've now went to the sublimely inane by telling me not to go to work because a "meteor" may hit it...No matter what I say, you aren't going to change your mind about any of this ,nor am I. Some say they use "common sense", when in reality, they really aren't, they're going on emotions, which sounds like what your doing. I have peace of mind with what I'm towing with and so do you, we're both happy, I don't need anyone's justification to tell me that, I know it for fact by using common sense to come to that conclusion. I know life is full os risk, I just don't particularly go out of my way to see what may happen by taking some of them.

ON EDIT: I KNOW I'm not over GVWR & GCWR because I have the weight tickets to prove it, if anything WERE to happen and it was "MY FAULT", I do understand the term "accountability"....

I am no lawyer but the GVWR and GCWR offered by the manufacture are not legally enforceable are they? They are recommended GVWR and recommended GCWR soooo.

I look at it this way. He can tow 13,000# from the bumper with a 1300# and be legal and safe (according to GM, and based on my experience). He is looking to pull a 5th wheel with less that 1000#s more total weight and less than 500# more tongue weight. Fifth wheel towing is supposed to be superior to bumper pulling, I see that the trailer that he is considering to be ideal.

I am no lawyer but the GVWR and GCWR offered by the manufacture are not legally enforceable are they? They are recommended GVWR and recommended GCWR soooo.
I am not so sure on that, or at least the CHP will say different. This past summer I do have knowledge of a someone getting an overweight ticket, and was surprised as I had not ever heard of anyone in California getting one. Buddy of mine was driving a D/A with a 40 ft triple axle toy hauler. Has driven the same route at least 2-3 times a year with the same set up without any issues. For some reason, probably boredom or maybe a directed patrol, buddy loads up for the week and heads up I-5. He saw 3 CHP pickups, usually driven by the scales Officers, sitting on the shoulder of the freeway a few miles south of the scales. As he passed them one of them drove up behind him, stopped him. He was told from looking at the trailer, it was to heavy for the truck. He has bags on, so it levels it out, so the CHP must have known something. He was told to exit at the scales at get weighed. He was also told he needed a non-commercial class A license, which he does not have. Long story short, he had to leave the trailer as he was almost 5K overweight, and he didn't have a class A non-commercial license. He couldn't find anyone he knew that had one, that also had a truck that could go get the trailer. He ended calling a tow company out.
I did see the ticket, and they don't cite you for driving over the Manufacturer's GVWR, or the GAWR. You get cited for cited for exceeding the GVWR that DMV has on file when the vehicle was registered, which may or may not be what the manufacturer door sticker has on it. DMV does tack on a few bucks for a weight fee on your tags every year. Now for the ticket, $1,400 for the overweight, and $250 for not having a non-commercial class A. He also received a letter from DMV with a "Notice of Past Fees Due". DMV wants him to pay up for not paying for the extra weight he was towing, and they were going back to when the truck was first registered to him, and tacking on late fees. He said there were 3 other trailers sitting there for what he assumed was the same thing. They were not hitched to anything, just sitting where he was told he could leave his.
He still has the same truck and trailer, he just avoids driving that part of the freeway. He did go get a non-commercial class A, and he is debating if he should downsize the trailer, or upsize the truck. He also still fighting with DMV over the weight fees. He said he will probably just cave and pay them as it will cost just as much to get a lawyer involved as the fees are.

I am no lawyer but the GVWR and GCWR offered by the manufacture are not legally enforceable are they? They are recommended GVWR and recommended GCWR soooo.


Why are they recommended? Do the engineers who designed these vehicles know something we don't? We know that these numbers have to be under rated to some extent to keep manufacturers from being sued perchance something DID happen. This is common sense. BUT, where does that number stop and become a contributing factor to wear and tear on the vehicle when towing substanially over the trucks capabilities. I'm an engineer, and unlike a lot of them, I DO USE common sense, so I try to stay within guidelines instead of "pushing the envelope" of the vehicle just because "everyone else does it". Not really a great answer for one pushing the limits of their truck. Legally enforceable...again, I don't want to be the guinea pig in that experience to find out "what if".

I am no lawyer but the GVWR and GCWR offered by the manufacture are not legally enforceable are they? They are recommended GVWR and recommended GCWR soooo.

Even if (and that's a big IF) they aren't enforceable, exceeding them can void your warranty and in the case of an accident, land you in court.