is there anyway to make the lb7 and lly as powerful as the lbz? if you how, when, and how much$?

Maybe a chip will do it i donno?

Add twins and you will blow a lbz away...

is there anyway to make the lb7 and lly as powerful as the lbz? if you how, when, and how much$?

If you build the tranny ($4k), throw in EFI Live ($1k), throw in tierod sleeves ($100), a good exhaust ($500), a good intake & turbo mouthpiece ($150 - $400 - you can always pay too much), you'll certainly get well above the stock LBZ... in fact, you'll likely be above 500 RWHP or thereabouts. Going beyond this point is going to get expensive real fast... but it is possible.

The real catch here is that the LBZ has beefier internals - which explains its higher stock HP and TQ numbers - which makes it a better high performance platform.

A better question might be what are you wanting to do?

A predator on 65 hp will put you about the same as a stock LBZ . I personally wouldn't run any higher than that without building the tranny.

And if it were me..............I'd do a full exhaust and instasll guages for sure !!

Tranny, exhaust, intake and a tuner. mostly a tranny. but the best thing about the LBZ vs the LLY/LB7 is the computers in the newer trucks are much more advanced. Just look at the redline of the motors. the computer can translate the data faster than the lly and lb7s. I think thats the biggest difference between the newer generations vs the older. The LLY and LB7 Computers just cant keep up with all that rotating mass.

well if this is true then why can some of the chips or tuners set the governed engine rpm higher with just a program? IIRC ppe will raise a rev limiter to 4200 or 4500 or somewhere in that range?
Tranny, exhaust, intake and a tuner. mostly a tranny. but the best thing about the LBZ vs the LLY/LB7 is the computers in the newer trucks are much more advanced. Just look at the redline of the motors. the computer can translate the data faster than the lly and lb7s. I think thats the biggest difference between the newer generations vs the older. The LLY and LB7 Computers just cant keep up with all that rotating mass.

Ya they raise the limiter but the new trucks rev up to almost 6 grand stock just look at the gauge cluster! And a huge difference is the variable vane turbos in all the trucks other than the LB7s. There was a nice write up in a Diesel Tech Mag about the computer differences, I suggest reading that they can describe it a little better.

Ya they raise the limiter but the new trucks rev up to almost 6 grand stock just look at the gauge cluster! And a huge difference is the variable vane turbos in all the trucks other than the LB7s. There was a nice write up in a Diesel Tech Mag about the computer differences, I suggest reading that they can describe it a little better.


Sorry to bust your bubble, but the real reason they moved the redline up on the newer models was because many owners of the LLY's and LB7's would freak out when they would use there grade braking which is built into the allison transmission. The tranny would downshift to slow the truck down and many drivers were seeing there engines going up to the 3300-3400 rpm range and they were freaking out. There is no harm to have the engine turning those rpm's when grade braking is being utilized. The engine computer (stock) will not let the engine rev above 3100-3200 rpm's under acceleration.

Then on the later models they decided to raise the red line so the would not be a misunderstanding of many drivers that feared they were harming their engines.

JLew:D

Sorry to bust your bubble, but the real reason they moved the redline up on the newer models was because many owners of the LLY's and LB7's would freak out when they would use there grade braking which is built into the allison transmission. The tranny would downshift to slow the truck down and many drivers were seeing there engines going up to the 3300-3400 rpm range and they were freaking out. There is no harm to have the engine turning those rpm's when grade braking is being utilized. The engine computer (stock) will not let the engine rev above 3100-3200 rpm's under acceleration.

Then on the later models they decided to raise the red line so the would not be a misunderstanding of many drivers that feared they were harming their engines.

JLew:D


yeah

Isnt it the same trany in all 3? If so why cant we run over 65 hp chip for fear of damaging it...if they run that stock on LBZ?

Add 40 horses with a chip or programmer to a LLY and you have about the same power as a LBZ. Might want to keep the air speed up for cooling, or watch the temp gauge closely. The LLY's don't cool as well as the LBZ. Also, I like to keep an eye on the trany temp as well.
LLY only fuels to 3200, grade brakes to 4800 then up shifts. Been there, done that. Scary but it holds up to the challenge.

yeah see I knew it wast cause the electronics were slower. shit the electronics in these bad machines process informations so fast its unreal to the human mind. now I could see if we were comparing the 05 dmax to an old 90 camaro with the early fuel injection but not the dmax to dmax, I mean I know they get better with every year and every generation of dmax that coms out but if they can make an old gas engine turn 8 grand with a distributer and no electronics and a mechanical distributer then a dmax computer should be able to run a funny car electronic and do 4.5 in the quarter. right?

Tranny, exhaust, intake and a tuner. mostly a tranny. but the best thing about the LBZ vs the LLY/LB7 is the computers in the newer trucks are much more advanced. Just look at the redline of the motors. the computer can translate the data faster than the lly and lb7s. I think thats the biggest difference between the newer generations vs the older. The LLY and LB7 Computers just cant keep up with all that rotating mass.
:eek::eek:Where in the world did you come up with this load???

AZ Duramax04.....the LBZ has a 6 speed Allison and it can handle more power than the 5 speeds.

That being said ...........a 65 rwhp should be fine on a 5 speed Allison and should put it very close to a stock LBZ in a qtr mile run. A high 14 sec.-low 15 sec. run is about what these should run.

My LMM shifts out about the same as my LLY .........3100 rpms. Maybe with a programmer and manually shifting you can get 4500 or something but just normal.......the 6 speed shifts out at 3100 max !

AZ Duramax04.....the LBZ has a 6 speed Allison and it can handle more power than the 5 speeds.

That being said ...........a 65 rwhp should be fine on a 5 speed Allison and should put it very close to a stock LBZ in a qtr mile run. A high 14 sec.-low 15 sec. run is about what these should run.

My LMM shifts out about the same as my LLY .........3100 rpms. Maybe with a programmer and manually shifting you can get 4500 or something but just normal.......the 6 speed shifts out at 3100 max !
Don't let everyone scare you with the whole tuner HP on stock tranny thing. Its not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Everyone just wants to forewarn you about only adding 60hp with a stock trans. Well I don't live up to that motto and most of my friends around here don't either. I have been running 120hp setting with my PPE for a little while now with no problems, and just last week bumped it up to lvl 4 (160hp or 180hp idk people debate) and so far I haven't had any problems and it runs great and amazing fuel mileage.

My buddy has been running the Predator on the 120hp setting for a LONG while now and nothing wrong to speak of yet. He has even limped the tranny a few time (not very often) usually when hes pulling 12,000pd load and forgets to turn it down. Everyone will say your on borrowed time, but so far I have been borrowing a lot of time, and so have a lot locals around here. Good luck and don't be scared. PS don't be worried about the LBZ LLY difference its not that big of a deal, especially with the money you could save by getting a 2004.5 or 2005 LLY vs a 2006 or 2007 LBZ. Throw that money right back into some mods and already be faster than a stock LBZ they are all great trucks IMO

Well..........the PPE hp is rated at the crank and not the wheels. I limped my LLY truck the first time I got on it in 5th with a Predator on 85 hp.............then I switched to 65hp and after 4-5 months it started limping regularly on 65hp ! I realized at that point I needed to go back stock or fork it over for a SC kit . So $4k later I had a really mad wife and a SC 3 kit . I then went to 120 on the Predator and lift pumps (more money). So to tell someone it is o.k. becuase you haven't had problems is kind of irresponsible.

Some trans. are tougher than others............some motors are overachievers and some are underachievers. Seems a lot more logical to tell someone to be careful than to tell them it's o.k. to go around limping your trans. ...........are you going to help out when they need to spend $4k on a trans re-build ????

Oh.......and by the way with all the mod's listed on my old LLY I still got beat off a 10mph roll by a stock LBZ for a little ways. I passed him at 3rd gear and was walking away hard "then" but he was right there 1st-2nd !

Well..........the PPE hp is rated at the crank and not the wheels. I limped my LLY truck the first time I got on it in 5th with a Predator on 85 hp.............then I switched to 65hp and after 4-5 months it started limping regularly on 65hp ! I realized at that point I needed to go back stock or fork it over for a SC kit . So $4k later I had a really mad wife and a SC 3 kit . I then went to 120 on the Predator and lift pumps (more money). So to tell someone it is o.k. becuase you haven't had problems is kind of irresponsible.

Some trans. are tougher than others............some motors are overachievers and some are underachievers. Seems a lot more logical to tell someone to be careful than to tell them it's o.k. to go around limping your trans. ...........are you going to help out when they need to spend $4k on a trans re-build ????

Oh.......and by the way with all the mod's listed on my old LLY I still got beat off a 10mph roll by a stock LBZ for a little ways. I passed him at 3rd gear and was walking away hard "then" but he was right there 1st-2nd !

As fast as these truck go through 1st and 2nd and with defueling on i'd say yeah it was a pretty close race at the beginning, its going to be like that unless you have defueling off and getting to at least the top of 2nd if not in 3rd, then the walking will start happening. And I can GAURENTEE that a basically stock (no chip, larger pipe exhaust, etc) LBZ can NOT hang with me on the 180 tune or 120, hell even the 90...I used to own an 06 LBZ that was bought brand new from the factory and modded it slowly so I KNOW.

And Im not telling him to do it (hot tune), I am just saying to be scared to play around with it some, don't listen to others that claim a 40-60hp is the heighest you can run because thats not true...

And I am not claiming on JUST my truck, like I said my buddy with a 120hp predator has been on his for well over 18 months and has had hardly ANY problems, runs strong too. Plus this guy that has a white dually with a stacked system (i know bad yes) edge, and diablo and he's prolly turning all kinds of timing, and fuel/boost he has yet to limp his at all...IDK some are luckier than others I guess I just don't think ppl with weak or previous owner abused trannys should be limiting these guys to a 40-60hp tune if you KEEP YOUR FOOT OUT OF IT...

Like I said I am usually really good about keeping a light foot besides the occasional fun, my DIC says 21.7 MPG on average so you know I am not balling it out all the time, I am no one to argue with someone that has alot of knowledge or experience in an area that I don't. I know these trans' are not bulletproof, but they aren't a dodge auto trans either (shits weak lol)...

True enough.......and I know mine may have been a weak one. Problem is .......no way to know if you have a weak one or not unless you play a little. If you play a little too much.........then your in tranny land !!

I did not say it in this thread before , so I'll say it now and it's probably the better way to say we can agree to disagree.

I would only run a 65 "rwhp" tune or below........if......I never wanted to have to upgrade the tranny. If I wanted to have the most fun with the least amount of worrying.........then that's the way I would do it.

Now if you want to have more fun with minor worries and a chance of toasting your tranny.......play with some tunes making over 100 "rwhp" and don't dog it too much and watch the 4-5 shift.........and me personally- no 5th gear WOT rolls or 5th gear WOT period . Then you probably will not have a problem but it's certainly a possibility.

If you load a Predator on 120 and drive it like it's stolen............your going to toast a tranny unless you are an extremely lucky individual !!

true that, mine may be slowly cooking itself but at this time she seem pretty strong. So for now it will stay. And if you don't plan on upgrading or can't (money) the def don't run over 100hp tune. 90 seems to be the highest I have seen for REALLY long times and 0 problems.

Think I'm going to leave this one stock...........but I am getting an itch !! LOL

Think I'm going to leave this one stock...........but I am getting an itch !! LOL

It will stay stock until you see another truck very similar to yours in person all turned up and that itch you have will turn into something more and you will have to start modding. That's what always happens to me... :D

Keep these things in mind:

Predator tunes are RWHP tunes
Predator tunes are conservative
You're probably going to be just fine if you can learn to not lug it between 4th and 5th, and while you're in 5th.

:eek::eek:Where in the world did you come up with this load???



Heres the load 4 u. Ass Clown.

December 08 Diesel Tech Mag.

:eek::eek:Where in the world did you come up with this load???



Heres the load 4 u. Ass Clown.

December 08 Diesel Tech Mag.
"...But the biggest difference between the four generation lies in the fuel injection control module (FICM). The processing capabilities of the LB7s FICM from 00 to 04 were advanced for the time period, but capable of more performance. When the LLY was released in late 04, it had more fuel mapping tables added to it, but was still limited to its data processing ability. So when EFI live tuner is modifying tables, he has more tables to change in the LLY vs. an LB7. But the tables and data processing capability differences between the LLY and LB7 are almost insignificant compared to the advances in the LBZs fuel injection control module. According to Boyd the LBZ can process data much faster than the LLY, allowing it to run more complex fuel tables and operate at a HIGHER ENGINE SPEED without any ignition, timing or combustion failures. The LLY and LB7 cannot operate at over 4,500 rpm because the FICM cannot process the dat fast enough. An LBZ can handle higher engine speeds. The LMMs fuel injection control module is essentially identical to the LBZs. This explains why LBZ generation Dmax trucks respond better to modifications and can be tuned to higher horsepower levels with greater ease than LB7 and LLY trucks."
right out the book holmes. Wheres ur load now?:boxing:

served...lol

To the original question.....
"is there anyway to make the lb7 and lly as powerful as the lbz? if you how, when, and how much$?"
Now, what is your operating theatre?..... Daily driver emtpy/loaded, Racing, or Towing?

Add a $300-$400, 40 to 65 hp chip or programmer to the LLY and it will run neck and neck with a LBZ around town legal speeds or towing legal weight and speeds. Racing is not my league so can the racers speak up.

"POWERFUL" means a lot of different things to different people. At the designed operating RPM of 1800 to 2200, they are not much different. Be nice to the Duramax, and it will work for you almost forever. Some may laugh at the low RPMs, but I use the torque not the horses. I do pay attention to how it shifts and holds after each shift. Tranys are expensive.
Lean on the loud pedal for high RPM and the differences are noticeable.