I recently took my truck to the dealer about an oil leak. The bill came to $800 and some change. The turbo return oil line gasket is $2.02, the labor to change the stupid thing was over $750 :eek:. I'm thinking I could have bought alot of oil dry for that price.

They say it is fixed now... we shall see.

not under warranty?

Nope, 117k miles.

Did this leak all over the engine/turbo or was it something you happen to notice before getting bad?

No, there was oil all down the back of the motor and transmission. It had been leaking for quite some time. I only set out to fix it after it started leaking on the ground.

Its a pain the a$$ job thats for sure. I had to change my own turbo and it was a job for sure.

For that I would have done it my self!

it pays about 8hrs,so depending on their labor rate,thats about correct.

wow, now I know why I am glad to have my 6.5

call me next time lol i'll do it for half price!! and i'll throw the gasket in for free!!

3hrs tops, what a rip off

could probably do it without removing the turbo too if you have small hands and leave the coolant lines and oil feed on.....pull out the upper upipe bolts loosen the lowers and let them hang back. loosen the pedistal enough to rock it forward and get the drain off the block. just gotta feel around and make sure you get all the pieces of the broken gasket and don't push any down the hole.

the part i hate most of these damn turbos is getting them out of the valley.

Argh.... It seems like it is leaking even worse now. What do you want to bet that it will be a different part leaking now since the original repair is warrantied for 1 year. Hopefully I don't spend the second 100k miles searching for an oil leak. $$$$

i'd take it back and tell them it's STILL leaking, see what they say? they will have to atleast disassemble it and inspect to see if it is the gasket they just replaced, if not maybee they will see the REAL problem, maybee the return tube has a crack in it, and when they disturbed it ( to replace the suspected gasket ) it made the crack worse??? hell.. they might have even made a stupid mistake... ive done it before.... that's why i dont let other people work on my truck! not even change the oil !!! just dont trust 'em !

that gasket is a major pain in the balls to seat... kirt you anywhere near ct?

Nope, wish I was.

I will take it back next week. Big hunting plans this weekend and don't want to be without a truck.

My fear is that they are going to charge me another $800 to replace some other part that mysteriously started leaking after the gasket fix. We shall see.

if you were close i'd give you a hand tearing into it. any way you can see the source of the leak with a mirror or by climbing up onto the engine bay?

They didn't fix the leak the first time. Tell them that you already paid the labor and will not pay it again. It's their fault for diagnosing it wrong. If they find something else wrong tell them that you will pay for the part and that's it.

They didn't fix the leak the first time. Tell them that you already paid the labor and will not pay it again. It's their fault for diagnosing it wrong. If they find something else wrong tell them that you will pay for the part and that's it.

X2!!!

They didn't fix the leak the first time. Tell them that you already paid the labor and will not pay it again. It's their fault for diagnosing it wrong. If they find something else wrong tell them that you will pay for the part and that's it.


x3!!!!!!

:nutkick:

that is why min has never gone to the dealer.

Just got the call from the dealership... he actually asked me if I was sitting down. He said at least one of the head gaskets has to be replaced, maybe both. Total estimated repair bill $4,500 - ouch!

Thoughts?

Oh my!!!!!!!! Maybe you could find someone on this site that is local that knows how to do it and would do it for WAY less?? If not, I guess you have to pay it. Damn that's a lot of money. Are they blown, like water in your oil? or are they just leaking/seeping oil down the block? are the cylinders losing pressure?

$4500 for head gaskets. I would have to tell them to eat it! Most of those guys price based on loosing the business. So if the gaskets are $100 then he wants 44 hours at say $100/hour. What a jerk off! Never did it but I'm supremely confident I could do it in half of that time.

I haven't had coolant loss issues or water in the oil. The only symptom is oil leaking on the ground. Yes, Damn that is a lot of money.

WOW thats a chunk of cash.... I would tell them they owe you alot of assistence considering there miss diag. of the leaking turbo. return.

I did just throw together a estimate.... you would be looking at about 3k in labor and 1200.00 in parts roughly here.

Being only out by i think you said 17,000 miles or so... I would see if you can get them to take care of most of the bill if not all considering you've spent 800.00 and fixed nothing.

$4500 for head gaskets. I would have to tell them to eat it! Most of those guys price based on loosing the business. So if the gaskets are $100 then he wants 44 hours at say $100/hour. What a jerk off! Never did it but I'm supremely confident I could do it in half of that time.

x2

i'd take it to another dealer (or anybody else) and get another opinion---BOTH head gaskets:rolleyes::cookoo:??? thats hard to believe... especially in a lbz with out a wild tuner on it! did they give you a reason why BOTH head gaskets are leaking? its hard to believe they are leaking that bad and NOT getting oil in the coolant?... sounds to me like they are going with the shotgun meathod- spray (with a ton of new parts) and pray (it fixes it) 4500!?!? ..... whats a replacement engine cost? i bet its just something dumb like a leaking intake manifold gasket....

3500 is probably the going price

x2

i'd take it to another dealer (or anybody else) and get another opinion---BOTH head gaskets:rolleyes::cookoo:??? thats hard to believe... especially in a lbz with out a wild tuner on it! did they give you a reason why BOTH head gaskets are leaking? its hard to believe they are leaking that bad and NOT getting oil in the coolant?... sounds to me like they are going with the shotgun meathod- spray (with a ton of new parts) and pray (it fixes it) 4500!?!? ..... whats a replacement engine cost? i bet its just something dumb like a leaking intake manifold gasket....

I would agree a second opinion would probably be a good idea. Kinda strange that both heads are leaking though, but not impossible...

As for the intake... there isn't any oil that it seals inside of the engine like on a small block... only oil in the intake is gonna be from the turbo or EGR(soot build up). which if its that bad I would think you would be seeing more issues then a leak.

Engine.... your looking about 10k plus....

WOW thats a chunk of cash.... I would tell them they owe you alot of assistence considering there miss diag. of the leaking turbo. return.

I did just throw together a estimate.... you would be looking at about 3k in labor and 1200.00 in parts roughly here.

Being only out by i think you said 17,000 miles or so... I would see if you can get them to take care of most of the bill if not all considering you've spent 800.00 and fixed nothing.

Just curious but where did you get that quote from? Where is the $1200 in parts and what is the time in hours to do 2 headgaskets?

OP go to the 2nd Gen board, they go thru some headgaskets and see what they run.

It a quick quote i did through our service price guide... paid about 33 hours... gasket kits seem a bit high, but doesn't really surprise me unfortunately.
Havent actually pulled a parts list or anything the guide gives you what "it thinks" you need to do the job... which was a gasket kit for 615,and two other gaskets at 130 a piece roughly and then some other misc parts(coolant,oil,some bolts,and sealent..ect).

25 hrs is about the time...szo if this is a big city place with $100+labor rate and they are including new inj sleeves aznd doing the heads...then i can see it being that much...but find out how many hours they are quoting you

The tech said 35 hours was book labor. He said they couldn't tell if it was both gaskets or just the one. Once they get the top off - which they already had off once - they will be able to tell if it is both or just one.

I'm at a loss. Some say, hell, for a small puddle of oil I would just drive it. Others say get a second opinion. I don't really have the time to shop it around. If $4,500 is close to what it should cost for a reputable shop to replace both head gaskets correctly, then I probably won't shop it.

I had planned on keeping this truck for a while so keeping it fixed is still cheaper than a new one. The dealership is the largest in the area and probably works on the most Duramaxs since it is strictly a truck dealership. My plan is to have them fix it then negotiate the $800 cost for the misdiagonsis.

I would throw the $800 mis-diagnosis in upfront. That is a $1600 dollar difference between having to pay both and a credit to the $4500. Any independant's around?

How much is your time worth Kirk..?? $4500.00 is a chunk of coin.! For an hour or two at an other repair centre, it may be well worth your while.

In all the threads and your replys, you say no water in oil and no loss of pressure...so how does that translate into a $4500 dual head gasket job.?? I think that to make sure you are not getting smoke blown up yo (_i_), it would be extremely prudent to seek another opinion.


just my opinion. But for that kind of coin, it's what I would do before I go forking over $4500 USD ($5200 CAD) to some dealer on what his "supposed" Diesel tech says...no way-no how. (to put it into perspective....thats a quarter of the price of good used Duramax.!)
stk

My plan was to talk with them after I see the "initial" repair bill to see what they will do on the previous miss-diagnosis. Is it possible that the turbo return line gasket was bad - sure. Should they also have looked for other leaks while they had the top of the motor off? Definitely! I think they have had a-lot of these return line gaskets go out and they diagnosed it to quickly.

Do I pay the extra $200 diagnosis fee to another shop to get a second opinion? I wouldn't expect for them to do it for free. I would be out a couple of days renting a car $125. Obviously it is mostly about the money but the hassle factor and wanting it done right. When / if I take it back it will be the 5th time for this issue.

What else could it be? Valve cover gaskets? I read something about an oil cooler? Turbo lines? I assume that there is a oil passage in the head to lube the valve train. Can anyone that has seen the inside of a Duramax confirm this? What is the upper oil pan? Is that the cover for the lifter valley?

When / if I take it back it will be the 5th time for this issue.

5 times for the same issue, whats the law on "lemon laws" ????

[/quote] What else could it be? Valve cover gaskets? I read something about an oil cooler? Turbo lines? I assume that there is a oil passage in the head to lube the valve train. Can anyone that has seen the inside of a Duramax confirm this? What is the upper oil pan? Is that the cover for the lifter valley?[/quote]

the oil cooler is in the left side of the engine block in front of the oil filter IIRC, sounds like maybe its time to buy a service maunel and do a little investigation.... thats what i would do... i would also DEMAND to SEE the exact location of the oil leak! or atleast be their when they lift the heads off to see the gasket failure....i still find it hard to believe that BOTH head gaskets are leaking - and both at the rear of the engine.... doubt it.....

The more and more I think of it the less and less I believe it is a head gasket. Just too convenient that it only leaks oil yet doesn't get into the water or vice versa.

Maybe PM some of the experts like Kennedy, Merchant, etc if they have seen this and get their view on the likely hood that it is a leaking head gasket pushing out the oil. Put it this way it is not a likely diagnosis and for that kind of coin they better damned well be right. Can you get up there wipe down the offending area and then check it every few days?

Pardon me for "complicating " the issue you are facing but it just is leaving a bad taste for me. Tell me another thing did the service writer man up and tell you sorry about the mis-diagnosis and I'll pull it off the other bill to incent you to do the job? If he can't do that then he is just scum anyway. Time for a heart to heart talk with that guy and give him a second chance to see things your way.

I don't know either. I had hoped one of those guys would chime in and reassure me that I'm not getting the shaft - can a head gasket leak cause an oil leak but not a coolant leak. No, they did not own up to the fact that they didn't do me any favors pulling the top off the motor to replace a $2 part and did not check for any other leaks. Sloppy work in my opinion.

The problem is that there are only two "dealers" in the area and this is the largest diesel shop by far. I have a "race" shop near me but have not used them before and don't want to make a mistakes going with the wrong mechanic on such a large job. I think I will call them tomorrow and see what they think.

Good plan. Well worth talking to a few other people Kirk. and as noted, you may want to ask Eric at Merchant, or John at Kennedy or a few of the other vendors. Pretty easy to do so...you can send 1 PM and have 5 or 6 recipients of it..

As I mentioned, I find it bizzare that it is head gaskets and in saying so, your heads are hooped..?? and then, both of them coincidently... ??? and yet no coolant leaks.

If so, I would love to hear from some of our resident DP engine guys here that have seen this issue and what causes it.

stk

id be calling gm customer service, this is wrong

dont leave us hanging.. let us know what comes of this issue!!!

dont leave us hanging.. let us know what comes of this issue!!!


Really and for once I would like to see the consumer come out on top! We are pulling for ya!

Man I am in the wrong business!
Whish I could charge those rates.

sorry to hear that man, any news on whats wrong?

I could be wrong but my truck leaks little (not much) oil (little drops) but I think (and I could be wrong) it's because I have the EGR blocker plate.

Maybe I'm wrong...but this is just my assumption...

Update

I took the truck to a very reputable diesel shop and the guy there seems to think the turbo gasket was still leaking but couldn't be sure. He recommended taking it back to the original dealer. Argh!

I took HDhombre's advice and removed my blocker plate. It helps, it seems, but still has a small leak. When I park the truck overnight there is a spot on the garage the size of a quarter. It use to be the size of a baseball. Where would that oil be coming from?

I was at the parts store the other day and saw a bottle of mystery oil stop leak - I was tempted. $3.00 vs $4,000 Never been much of a believer but may be worth a shot.

I also talked with the dealer about the original $800 charge. He said he would talk with the service manager but he knew what he would say - there were two leaks. He assures me that once they get everything off the top of the motor they will be able to tell where it is leaking and that they will only fix what they find. I think they are guessing about the problem and as little as it is leaking I'm not sure if they can find it.

As I have written earlier, obviously the money is an issue but my luck they will tear way into it and decide that the heads are trashed or something and that I need a new motor. For $4k I probably would fix the oil leak, for $13k no way! I will probably drive this truck another year or so and would rather not mark my spot everywhere I park.

What to do?

Update

I took the truck to a very reputable diesel shop and the guy there seems to think the turbo gasket was still leaking but couldn't be sure. He recommended taking it back to the original dealer. Argh!

I took HDhombre's advice and removed my blocker plate. It helps, it seems, but still has a small leak. When I park the truck overnight there is a spot on the garage the size of a quarter. It use to be the size of a baseball. Where would that oil be coming from?

I was at the parts store the other day and saw a bottle of mystery oil stop leak - I was tempted. $3.00 vs $4,000 Never been much of a believer but may be worth a shot.

I also talked with the dealer about the original $800 charge. He said he would talk with the service manager but he knew what he would say - there were two leaks. He assures me that once they get everything off the top of the motor they will be able to tell where it is leaking and that they will only fix what they find. I think they are guessing about the problem and as little as it is leaking I'm not sure if they can find it.

As I have written earlier, obviously the money is an issue but my luck they will tear way into it and decide that the heads are trashed or something and that I need a new motor. For $4k I probably would fix the oil leak, for $13k no way! I will probably drive this truck another year or so and would rather not mark my spot everywhere I park.

What to do?

Not sure b/c you don't have any info in your sig...have you done the PCV reroute? My truck leaked like a pig from the first month I had it down the back of the bellhousing....That was 3 years ago. Now after 3 years and 28K the oil is finally stopped coming down the bellhousing...

Yes, the PCV reroute was probably done 15k miles ago.

Hang in there!

3hrs tops, what a rip off


Agreed.

Rather than dump $4500 into it for a repair that might not be needed, I'd pressure wash all the oil off the engine and trade it in for a new one or another with lower miles.

The saga continues...

I decided to have the orginal dealer fix it. I took it in last Monday. He called this morning and said it was ready to go. They only had to replace one head gasket total price $3,200. He took off $450 from the prior repair bill. Drove it about 10 miles and noticed a ticking noise that sounded like an exhaust leak. Drove back to the dealer. He just called. Not an exhaust leak, a valve needs adjusted. Tearing back into it today... argh!!!!

I am thinking now I should have just let it leak for another year until it was time for a new truck. Just my luck!

I got snakebit at 103k miles b/c of my old LB7 Injectors, decided to trade up to an 07 classic LBZ. Couldn't have done any better. Got for $150 over invoce -$8500 in discounts (GM card, rebates, etc.) I think you got a cursed truck my friend (and a semi-incompetent dealer!)

Wow, I have a dealer in my town just like that. Your not in central NY are you? haha.

I am no pro but I have rebuilt an lb7 from the bare block and had it run......the first time. Any mechanic worth his salt would lash the valves when doing the HG job. You do have to pull the valve train when pulling heads on an LBZ correct?

To me it sounds like the truck had an oil leak and the dealers incompetence accounts for the rest of it.

I began working on my own vehicles because of situations just like this. I couldn't trust a dealer to know how to fix my truck and I couldn't afford to pay for their mistakes.

Find a new service shop, even if you have to drive 50 miles. These guys will cost you more in the long run.

Your truck isn't cursed your dealer sucks.

i thought only the lb7's had this prob

And continues...

Talked with them today. All lifters were readjusted but had no effect on the knocking noise. He thinks it could be a stuck valve but doesn't know. Mechanic tells the service advisor to leave him alone and he will have it fixed by Friday. Argh!!!!

And continues...

Talked with them today. All lifters were readjusted but had no effect on the knocking noise. He thinks it could be a stuck valve but doesn't know. Mechanic tells the service advisor to leave him alone and he will have it fixed by Friday. Argh!!!!

Real professional although I would side with the mechanic on this one...service writers can be a total retards at times. You sure got lucky on this one buddy :o:

well i hope they are not gonna charge you to go back in and fix something that wasnt messed up b4

No, as of now they are covering the repair.

Just talked with the service advisor... bent valve. How does that happen and are there any long term implications? Very frustrated.

It definately has been a big mistake to even chase the oil leak. BIG MISTAKE!

bent valve? they must have done that while removing the head?? i guess?????? that sounds pretty shady to me! now they have to hemove the head again to install a new valve!!!! ha ha .... and on that note, i'd tell them to fix the problem and NEVER return to that shop again!!! good luck ....(you'll need it with that shop) :0 ;)

when checking valve lash they probably overtighted the rocker arms or careless when they removed the head, if run for a while it can wear the valve guide causing movement of the valve and not to seal properly there for more repairs. good luck and hope everything works for the best or just sell me your truck for oohh um $5000 lol

If you don't get the rods seated correctly in the lifter socket you can bend stuff when bolting the valve train back on. Usually you will notice one rocker that is WAY out of adjustment and look to see that the push rod is not seated. If you roll the engine over before you notice bad things happen quickly.

Mr. Piston slaps Mr. valve right in the kisser and something gives, usually the push rod but not always.

If I am right they cut corners and didn't lash the valves the first time. You would notice, there isn't enough adjustment to lash a valve to .012 if it isn't seated correctly.


There is probably a nice clean spot on the face of that piston in the shape of a valve and who knows how much aluminum got fed to the turbo.


RUN and I mean RUN away from this dealer. They are idiots. Ask to see the piston in that hole before they button it back up.

I might be wrong with my internet diagnosis but DO NOT TRUST THEM.

They have taken a simple oil leak and turned it into a disaster.

RUN and I mean RUN away from this dealer. They are idiots. Ask to see the piston in that hole before they button it back up.
They have taken a simple oil leak and turned it into a disaster.

x2!!!:agreed: :shootself

If you don't get the rods seated correctly in the lifter socket you can bend stuff when bolting the valve train back on. Usually you will notice one rocker that is WAY out of adjustment and look to see that the push rod is not seated. If you roll the engine over before you notice bad things happen quickly.

Mr. Piston slaps Mr. valve right in the kisser and something gives, usually the push rod but not always.

If I am right they cut corners and didn't lash the valves the first time. You would notice, there isn't enough adjustment to lash a valve to .012 if it isn't seated correctly.


There is probably a nice clean spot on the face of that piston in the shape of a valve and who knows how much aluminum got fed to the turbo.


RUN and I mean RUN away from this dealer. They are idiots. Ask to see the piston in that hole before they button it back up.

I might be wrong with my internet diagnosis but DO NOT TRUST THEM.

They have taken a simple oil leak and turned it into a disaster.

x2 they should know that and truthfully if they say something was damaged before then they should of caught it the first time the head was lifted, its part of what they should be doing inspecting upon reassembly

RUN and I mean RUN away from this dealer. They are idiots. Ask to see the piston in that hole before they button it back up.



I'm not a diesel mechanic by any means, but I'm curious about this advice. As you said, the dealer has obviously taken a simple oil leak and turned it into a disaster. Why would he want to leave the dealer now? I would persue this until he gets everything repaired, and then bug the shit out of them and GM to throw in a warranty for any other failure that could be related to their screw ups. The way things are going, his turbo is going to crap out in 10k miles and he'll have another $5000 repair bill. After all that he will have spent the equivalent of a new engine.

Well, you have a point about getting everything fixed by them. If you can pull that off then I say go for it. In my experience they will have every BS excuse and get down right nasty before admitting to making a mistake. As for the turbo, inspect the vanes, if they are OK then things should be fine. The valves are steel the piston is not so if anything got fed to the turbo it came off the piston. If you look at the piston and things are scarred up you have problems.

Maybe go to the GM customer service line and open a case. Honestly, that is an up hill battle at best.

this whole debacle is terrible and I'm really feeling for you! Please make sure you have good paper work on everything here. This is so out of control and I can't believe stuff like this happens. Lesson to us all check out the GM service department as to their knowledge of diesels before you bring your truck to them. Seems that we should trust less then 10% of them.

I've come to the conclusion that most, if not all dealers have employees that could just care less. I recently brought my vehicle in to have an EGR gasket replaced. When I went to pick it up, there were two nuts holding the EGR tube that were threaded on by hand, but never screwed down or even tightened. Then there was a hose that goes into the head that was completely off. Finally the rubber grommet that holds the black plastic "6.6L Turbo Diesel" was missing.

What pisses me off most was that the tech admitted to being aware that the rubber grommet thing was missing, just didn't bother making it right. The other stuff he just "forgot". They took the truck back into the shop and made all of those things right, but it just made me wonder what else they "forgot". And get this: they took the rubber grommet off of another customer's truck that was in the shop to put on mine, saying they would order him a new one. I highly doubt that happened, and now someone else in town has a loose cover. That just makes me real comfortable knowing that my truck will be "parted out" if they need parts on some other vehicle while in the shop. I spoke with the service manager about all of this and made sure they were aware of what was going on, but I doubt anything good will come of it.

Well - it is in my garage tonight - finally. Two-weeks later. Only time will tell if the oil leak is fixed. The mechanic showed me the valve, it was bent but no signs of coming in contact with the piston.

Well that's great to hear, I hope everything stays fine! I'm not sure how you bend a valve without it contacting something....but there is lot's I don't know so......

I feel for you. They are good trucks, they just don't have the best support sometimes.

my dealer wanted to charge me $1250 to replace 2 trans lines. the lines cost $105 total. $1100 labour wtf!

June of 2008 the local Cadillac stealer said I had a bad head gasket on my 2002 caddy DTS. The repair quote was $2,600. I said ok the next thing I know they said they had to replace both head gaskets with a $4,400.oo plus tax and 10% for shop supplies tab. I paid after a very heated argument over the 8 special GM replacement heli coils required as they stripped the threads in the aluminum block at $100.00 each with the special GM head bolts which they wound up eating and I paid $3,600.00 with no shop supplies. I thought all was good to go but after a couple of hundred mile we were losing small amounts of cooling fluid. This went on for several months and 8,000 miles. They found the leak after repeated visits. There were several hair line cracks in the block where the new head blots were inserted. Their own mechanic replied that either GM made pourious blocks or the head bolts were over torqued. Since they were the only ones to ever work on the car I thought they would replace the block. Wrong!!! We lost our shirt on that car and it was going to cost as much in litigation lawyer fees as the book value of the car. We just sucked it up and junked the car as they held all the aces in this hand because the car had 106,000 miles on it and GM said it has too many miles on it. WHAT A RIP!!:mad::mad: GM will see not see me buying any more products from them!

June of 2008 the local Cadillac stealer said I had a bad head gasket on my 2002 caddy DTS. The repair quote was $2,600. I said ok the next thing I know they said they had to replace both head gaskets with a $4,400.oo plus tax and 10% for shop supplies tab. I paid after a very heated argument over the 8 special GM replacement heli coils required as they stripped the threads in the aluminum block at $100.00 each with the special GM head bolts which they wound up eating and I paid $3,600.00 with no shop supplies. I thought all was good to go but after a couple of hundred mile we were losing small amounts of cooling fluid. This went on for several months and 8,000 miles. They found the leak after repeated visits. There were several hair line cracks in the block where the new head blots were inserted. Their own mechanic replied that either GM made pourious blocks or the head bolts were over torqued. Since they were the only ones to ever work on the car I thought they would replace the block. Wrong!!! We lost our shirt on that car and it was going to cost as much in litigation lawyer fees as the book value of the car. We just sucked it up and junked the car as they held all the aces in this hand because the car had 106,000 miles on it and GM said it has too many miles on it. WHAT A RIP!!:mad::mad: GM will see not see me buying any more products from them!

:Whoa: :banghead: :( sorry buddy sounds like u got the mother of stealer stories!! i would have traded it in after it started leaking again .... just forget to mention that it started leaking again!!! ha ha let them eat the bill !!