I could use a little help guys.
I just hit 60k and was coming home from Dallas, when I noticed the truck had a rough idle. I hit the driveway and found fuel on the groundhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif. I checked the oil and sure enough all fuel. I got the truck to the dealership, that I use on Friday. I find out that the Houston Regional warranty manager (all gmc dealerships in a 70 square mile) is on vacation and the gm tech line won't release warranty for injectors with out his approval. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif He comes back on the 5th. The dealership acts like they don't even have an injector problem. What I need is some ammo to help me fight this battle. The dealership also says if it is covered they will only fix the bad one and not all of them per GM. They do know I have performance products but they say they want the job. Am I the one getting the job!!!
Thanks for any help guys.
Scott

Red


Talk to Demaxallitech


Geno

Boy, havent heard that story beforehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Well, you for sure have a problem, there is only a handful of ways for fuel to get in the oil.. Front seal on pump is blown.. injector....return line seal or return line..


injection pump. unlikely, possible, but rare


return line seal. possible, but unlikely unless it has been tampered with


injecter.. Very likely. inorder to determine which way they need to go, they need to perform a fuel system test.


likely, that will lead them to this test....
<H1>Fuel Leaks Inside of Engine</H1>



<H4>Important</H4>
<UL =BULLET>
<LI>If you were directed here from Fuel Return System Diagnosis, go directly to step 16. This will be performed with the same components disconnected as stated in that test.
<LI>If you were directed here from the Engine Cranks but Does Not Run diagnostic, go directly to step 2. </LI>[/list]




<LI =1>Test the high pressure fuel system performance.

<LI =A>Start and idle the engine.
<LI =A>Command the fuel pressure to 160 MPa with a scan tool.
<LI =A>Observe the Actual Fuel Rail Pressure parameter with a scan tool
<UL =SQUARE>
<LI>If the Actual Fuel Rail Pressure parameter is within 2 MPa of commanded pressure, continue this diagnostic.
<LI>If the Actual Fuel Rail Pressure parameter is not within 2 MPa of commanded pressure, go to Fuel System Diagnosis - High Pressure Side (http://service.gm.com/servlets/CellHandler?CellId=67449&amp;RefDoc=820884) . </LI></LI>
http://service.gm.com/engif/000/000/761/761597.gif
http://service.gm.com/tif.gif (http://service.gm.com/servlets/RetrieveTif?pic=761597)

<LI =1>Disconnect the fuel return line (1) at the engine. Refer to Quick Connect Fitting(s) Service (Metal Collar) (http://service.gm.com/servlets/CellHandler?CellId=63731&amp;RefDoc=820884) .
<LI =1>Remove the air duct from the air cleaner assembly to the turbo inlet.
<LI =1>Remove the air intake pipe. Refer to Air Intake Pipe Replacement (http://service.gm.com/servlets/CellHandler?CellId=67324&amp;RefDoc=820884) .
http://service.gm.com/engif/000/000/744/744233.gif
http://service.gm.com/tif.gif (http://service.gm.com/servlets/RetrieveTif?pic=744233)

<LI =1>Remove the fuel return rubber hose of the fuel injection pump from the junction block (2). Cap the fitting on the block with a 3/8 inch rubber cap (1) to prevent fuel leakage.
<LI =1>Install the J 23738-A (http://service.gm.com/servlets/RetrieveTif?pic=5386) Vacuum Pump at the fuel return pipe.
<LI =1>Apply 15 inches Hg of vacuum to the pipe.
<UL =BULLET>
<LI>If the vacuum holds, reinstall the disconnected components and go to step 23.
<LI>If the vacuum does not hold, go to step 8. </LI>[/list]
<LI =1>Remove the generator. Refer to Generator Replacement (http://service.gm.com/servlets/CellHandler?CellId=37565&amp;RefDoc=820884) in Engine Electrical.
<IMG id='chkImg1' name='chkImg2' height=296 alt="object Number: 761695 Size: SH" src="ht

Thanks Eric
Is there a way of finding out how many injector warranty claims gm has had on 02 injectors. The dealership said it is an injector but I don't think they have done a test.
Scott

Thanks Eric
Is there a way of finding out how many injector warranty claims gm has had on 02 injectors. ...



That would be a GREAT number to know. I'd be curious as well...


CADman_ks

I have no idea the number.... Prolly dont want too

I would think there is some kind of documentation on the injector failures some were.

Probably classified as "TOP SECRET INFORMATION".http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

The only info I can come up with is using a search for the Labor code for an injector replacement, but it covers all injectors, not just the dmax.. I cant narrow it down from there with my puny powershttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

Not only would knowing the total number of failures be of interest, but why they failed and the distribution of failures across the failure modes would be really interesting. Someone either at Bosch or GM has the answer to the "why".


As Flhrciblueice states above, "Probably classified as "TOP SECRET INFORMATION" ".

A buddy recently had injector failure on his 2002 at 56000 miles. The stealership fixed him up by replacing 1 injector that was bad. He had to take his truck back a week later with more injector failures. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif


Too bad someone besides GM can't track and trend these failures !http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


Trends sorted by regions would be interesting, too.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

In order to get all that info sorted by demographics and fuel used comparisons etc. we need to start a legal fund and hire a real good bulldog lawyer that can smell "class action lawsuit" LOL


Atually at the Men's Warehouse they have a line of clothing for lawyers called "law-suits" ha ha ha


Seriously, no Corp. in the world is gong to volunteer info like that, releasing that info comes with a sound bite "Cha...Ching"!

Too bad someone besides GM can't track and trend these failures


The info we really need can only be determined by taking the injectors apart and examining all the internal components to determine the actual failure mode.





Seriously, no Corp. in the world is gong to volunteer info like that, releasing that info comes with a sound bite "Cha...Ching"!


The State of California had to take them to court over their miserable 4.3L gas injector problems. Eventually won. So I would not expect GM to volunteer the info in this case either.

I guess we start a new topic for injector failures, just to see how many people on the place & page have had failures and how much grieve they got in getting them replaced.
Scott

I don't understand the concept of changing out just the affected injector. If an injector goes bad, that would tell me that something or somethings have gone through the fuel line that shouldn't have and caused damage. More then likely the damage has been done to all the injectors but the weakest one will fail first and so on. I can understand the saving $$$ on the dealership end. But it can't cost the dealership that much $$$ for the injectors as what it would cost them in man hours in going through the job more then once for another injector failure. I am sure the dealership doesn't care about that because they more then likely get reimbursed the replacement cost from the factory. But as a customer point of view I would recommend they change them all and then I would start finding fuel at a new source and/or changing fuel filter more often. If they refuse to change them all I would request that they give me another 100,000 mile warrenty on all the injectors. My .02 cents.


Jeff

Here is the point. The dealerships do what GM tells them to. So if GM tells them to only replace the one faulty injector that is what they are going to do or they will pay for the others out of their pocket. I am not sure on this but I would think that the dealership would make more money if they worked on your truck 4 times as opposed to once. Sure it sucks to be down for the month or so that it will take for them to diagnose and replace each injectore one by one but under warranty that is their game. Now when it comes to replacing them out of waranty you can bet that I would pay to do them all in hopes that it would not go down again.


I thought I remember someone saying a technical bulletin was supposed to come out to replace all injectors on for that side of the engine if a injector went bad. I guess it hasn't!

I thought I remember someone saying a technical bulletin was supposed to come out to replace all injectors on for that side of the engine if a injector went bad. I guess it hasn't! I doubt your gonna see that, that would be like admitting to a problem and then the gates of hell would open up.. Image what would happen if they came out and said that there was indeed a problem with the piston slap issues, It would cost millions to replace pistons in effected engines.. Injectors are more money then that.

How does fuel get into the oil from the injector?

How does fuel get into the oil from the injector?





Stuck open injector and washing down the cylinder destination ,crankcase....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gifEdited by: Mackin

And it also gives the dealerships 8 chances to charge warranty work for items that were never replaced on seperate work orders http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif .

How does fuel get into the oil from the injector?





Stuck open injector and washing down the cylinder destination ,crankcase....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

That could do some damage to the cylinder walls.... Which means they should borescope the affected cylinder to see if any scoring has taken place.

But then diesel fuel isn't as bad as gasoline.

Edited by: hoot

Sooo, what happens if a truck continues to be driven with bad injectors ? Besides terrible MPG. Lock-up the engine ? How long before that happens ? Any guesses ? What do you thing GM would do in that case ? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Hoot, usually the way that fuel gets into the oil is the injector actually leaks through the injector body itself. Usuallly when it leaks past the tip, it smokes real bad, runs rough. Its way more common for it to leak from the body or a return line seal.

DID THEY IMPROVE 2004 INJECTORS? HEARD THEY DID.

DID THEY IMPROVE 2004 INJECTORS? HEARD THEY DID. Bruce, see pics of some of the LLY changes on my website

Eric your link in your signature doesn't work, it has dieselplace in front.

Okay I got the call at about 10:00 am. They told me they will check and replace all bad injectors under warranty. unfortunately, Eric is right as usual they will only replace what is bad. One of the mechanics did tell that GM made the bores to deep and the injectors will crack under to much pressure. Eric T/F?
I also made sure that everything gets documented for bearing wash out. Sure would hate to have to replace the engine in 3 months.
Scott

I don't know how to host a poll....


But "failed injectors" poll sounds like good idea to me.


Are the 6 "new" injectors in my 75000mile duramax warrantied for another 100000miles? Or are they only under balance of original warranty?

Texas Red Wagon,


I wish you the best of luck with your duramax.


Hang in there.

Thanks Grady
Sounds like another question for Eric. Anybody try Quads injectors and what is the life span?
Scott

I dont know about the to deep a bore thing, But i do know that GM has mentioned that part of the reason that the injectors fail (they think) is from the very method used to hold them in. Appearently the clamp stresses the injector body and causes a leak.


Scott, not sure on Quads injectors, I think CLint (ats) is working on some too and Greg Landuyt has some nozzles or soemthing.. I dont know anybody that has any of the above at this point so I cant comment on them.


Tim, fixing link, thankshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Earlier this year the State of California settled a major lawsuit with GM on behalf of consumers who were victimized by faulty injection systems in their gas powered cars. GM was claiming the problem was caused by poor fuel quality (sound familiar?). The suit claimed reasonably enough that the quality of the fuel was known to GM when it designed the injection system and it owed a duty to its consumers to design a system capable of performing properly in that environment. I would hate to think it will take a similar action to get GM to do the right thing with their diesel injection system. We'll see.

TC

Number 3 and number 8 injectors were cracked. They also had to cut some lines that were rusted from water in the fuel. Not sure about that one. Waiting on parts now.
Scott