I just bought a 2001 gmc , it came with a Fabtech 8" kit on it . What are things to look out for ? How good of a kit is it ?


here is a pic of the truck , I bought it so i can put a roll bar in my truck and be able to tow it to events next year plus retire my truck from being the tow rig if i want to . Also got a killer deal on it :D


http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo80/trentnell/trey054.jpg




http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo80/trentnell/trey053.jpg

its a decent kit. nothin spectacular. the kit its self puts alot of stress on the steering componets and causes them to wear out quick, even with cognito braces. I have found if you trim the front yellow bumpstops and lower the truck to about 6.5-7" it drastically helps level the CVs and Steering angle. let alone it rides much better.

Things to watch are the upper ball joints, the fabtech ones wear quick; steering parts as i said before; ditch the white fabtech shocks if you have them, they suck; and thats really about it. i really like my kit after all the stuff ive done to it

Nice looking truck. The major problems I had with the kit is are exactly the same the Chevy1925 has had, ball joints and Pitman/Idler Arms. Cognitos seemed to alleviate my wear problems, but I only took it off road towing the hauler to the dunes. Otherwise, it was pretty much a street crawler. How long before you have a built trans and twins on that one:D

Thanks guys , any other info welcome and def agree that new shocks are in order!

Nice looking truck Trent.

I take it it has the older wider spindle stance to it, with that the kit has alot of force on the steering components so I would check over the front end and make sure you are all sound....ie , tie rods, pitman/idler, upper and lower ball joints and wheel bearings.

If it has standard white body shocks I would upgrade to a better shock. Make sure it's not turned up to tall or down to much because those kits have a small window to be set in hight before you start to hit the compression or drop out stops.

You can update the kit to the newer less push out spindles. That would be alot better on the front end parts.

You can update the kit to the newer less push out spindles. That would be alot better on the front end parts.


how exactly do the updated spindles be any better for the front end parts?

do the updated spindles have a higher mounting location for the tie rods reducing the angle they are at w/ the older spindles?

is the over all geometry of the updated spindles better in regards to how the upper/lower ball joints and tie rods mount and work together?

how much of a "reducton" in track width is there with these updated spindles from the older spindles?



i ask as i was ready to buy the updated spindles but couldn't find any real tech info, or anyone who has done the update and posted good or bad info about the changes it made to there truck.

all in all im not real stoked w/ any of my fabtech stuff and if there isn't a real gain to be had w/ the updated spindles i cant justify spending any more money on parts from fabtech. the track width reduction is nice but i need to see more of a "plus" before the updated spindles become a real option for me.

thanks

Yes it reduces the stress on steering , wheel bearing and tie rods. Less wheel and tire hanging out bound of the pivot point (ball joints) will help this.

can u get more specific? saying yes it helps cuz its not as far out doesn't really pin point much of a benefit.

if everything simply moves inboard 1" or so that doesn't seem like too much a gain in the plus category. having the tie rod location so low and moving in 1" would seem to make the angle steeper thus adding more unwanted stress on parts due to the now steeper angle it would be operating at. maybe just moving things inboard 1" is better, but would it be enough to off set the 450 buck cost?.....

Have you ever road a quad/4wheeler ...... ever had arm pump .... the father out the tires are sticking away from the pivoting of the ball joints the more feed back you will get. Pull it is more centered over the pivot spot and the feed back decreases.

In other words the closer the tires are to the truck, the better. Which is why I need to put that fabtech kit on my truck, someday.

In other words the closer the tires are to the truck, the better.


Yes..


Next time driving down the highway @ 65mph roll the window down and stick your hand/arm out the window and see how hard it is to keep still......farther out the worse it is......now think about your tires rolling down the road with wheel spacers......more feed back....Farther out the more leverage and wear.;)

Now you might think.... well I am buying a Upper Control arm drop kit then....yea...you want to know the problem with that....everything has pro's and con's, just have to weight them out to see whats the worse of the 2. I take a well designed spindle kit that has as less push as possible for the best results.

so, based on how u are trying to sway public opinion on these updated hubs ur saying that more leverage = more wear and tear, so how is a a drop spindle kit style lift better than a lift that moves down the arms keeing the stock short spindle? wouldn't that extra leverage of the new spindle = more wear and tear on the ball joints? different circumstance, right..... in how leverage works for vs. against something... simpliy moving in-word isn't going to help much if the angle changes creating more dynamic force in a unwanted direction, aka steeper tie rod angle = more up/down force = more unwanted wear/tear on pitments/idlers.

i am seeing what ur getting at but u are not getting to the point w/ the proper example.

its all a mater of geometry and getting things to work in relation of each other properly.

i was hoping that u had some real physical evidence of what is difference not opinion. i have read and read and read but till i see some physical proof all the theory in the world isn't going to convince me that much is really fixed other than the track width issue.

after spending the time to become a mechanical engineer and doing design work for years i understand all the ideas being tossed around, im just looking for first hand examples of what and how these help, a real side by side account. fabtech has failed a few too many times to take word of mouth for it on any of the products they sell.

back on the search i go for real tech info about this product.

thanks

so, based on how u are trying to sway public opinion on these updated hubs ur saying that more leverage = more wear and tear, so how is a a drop spindle kit style lift better than a lift that moves down the arms keeing the stock short spindle? wouldn't that extra leverage of the new spindle = more wear and tear on the ball joints? different circumstance, right..... in how leverage works for vs. against something... simpliy moving in-word isn't going to help much if the angle changes creating more dynamic force in a unwanted direction, aka steeper tie rod angle = more up/down force = more unwanted wear/tear on pitments/idlers.

i am seeing what ur getting at but u are not getting to the point w/ the proper example.

its all a mater of geometry and getting things to work in relation of each other properly.

i was hoping that u had some real physical evidence of what is difference not opinion. i have read and read and read but till i see some physical proof all the theory in the world isn't going to convince me that much is really fixed other than the track width issue.

after spending the time to become a mechanical engineer and doing design work for years i understand all the ideas being tossed around, im just looking for first hand examples of what and how these help, a real side by side account. fabtech has failed a few too many times to take word of mouth for it on any of the products they sell.

back on the search i go for real tech info about this product.

thanks

well you are right to a point from what i understand. yes whether its a drop spindle or UCA/LCA drop you will be puttin more angle on the steering system but they usually can compensate for that with flippin the tie rods to be on top of the spindle or using a drag link drop kit. The way fabtech ahs designed theres is that on the 8" kit, they only use about 6-7"s to drop the LCA then they lower the lower bumpstop another inch to add an inch into the lift. Thus givin you 8"s of lift but with slightly cranked t-bars. This is why you can not get away with crankin the bars on a fabtech kit to make it 10"s.

now with that plus the 1.5 extended spindles, you are adding more leverage to the steering system. with the two 90* bends in the drag link on either side and the extended spindles plus a steep steering angle, your now really trying to force the pitman/idlerarm to rotate up or down and wear out twice as fast. Maybe my knowledge is a bit off on forces and what not as im not an engineer but i also build suspension systems for trucks and with what i know they seem to work very very well.

Now what i have found to fix the steering problems is the .75" spindles or doin the EXAXT steering kit as what i have. the EXAXT system gives you a straight drag link but uses two big outer tie rods (one as the inner and on as the outer, no ball and cup system like the factory style or cognito HD ones) with a billet steel coller in the middle of the two tie rods to allow toe adjustment (like on the 98 and older IFS). They also give you a 1/2" billet steel ilder arm brace with a greaseable roller bearing to really make sure there is no twist in the draglink.

so, based on how u are trying to sway public opinion on these updated hubs ur saying that more leverage = more wear and tear, so how is a a drop spindle kit style lift better than a lift that moves down the arms keeing the stock short spindle? wouldn't that extra leverage of the new spindle = more wear and tear on the ball joints? different circumstance, right..... in how leverage works for vs. against something... simpliy moving in-word isn't going to help much if the angle changes creating more dynamic force in a unwanted direction, aka steeper tie rod angle = more up/down force = more unwanted wear/tear on pitments/idlers.

i am seeing what ur getting at but u are not getting to the point w/ the proper example.

its all a mater of geometry and getting things to work in relation of each other properly.

i was hoping that u had some real physical evidence of what is difference not opinion. i have read and read and read but till i see some physical proof all the theory in the world isn't going to convince me that much is really fixed other than the track width issue.

after spending the time to become a mechanical engineer and doing design work for years i understand all the ideas being tossed around, im just looking for first hand examples of what and how these help, a real side by side account. fabtech has failed a few too many times to take word of mouth for it on any of the products they sell.

back on the search i go for real tech info about this product.

thanks


I hear what you are ssaying...

I am still needing to do my full write up on the Fabtech spindle upgrade and install, just haven't found time and we put them on our site to sell because I had people looking to buy them and we have sold them with out having the write up.

Fabtech is like many other kift companies....jack of all trades but master of only a few. Not saying it's a discredit or bad thing for Fabtech but man they have a ton on there shoulders for lift kit designs and there is no way you can be the best on all of them. They have had this kit out from the start of spindle designed kits so really they where one of first that changed over so I give them that in the first place. But making a good thing better is always great, that is what the spindle upgrade is.

You are asking about the difference between a spindle (newer style of lift design on a IFS) vs. the old school way of dropping the UCA's down and using a OE spindle and ball joint span. Here something I have posted many times, let me know if it helps better put things into play on wear between the 2 style kits:

Here's something to help you visualize the scenario:
We all have bench pressed weights - You have your hands spread 15 inches apart on the bar with 10 lbs. on either end. No problem - you have as much stability as you would need with such a low weight. Now put 35 lbs. on either end of that bar and keep your hands at the same 15 inch span. The bar becomes unstable and the short span makes it impossible to keep control. Now increase the span of your hands to 25 inches. The stability is regained and you have no problem handling and controlling the weight.
15 inch span, 10 lbs. = Stock truck & stock tire size
15 inch span, 35 lbs. = A-arm drop kit & larger tires
25 inch span, 35 lbs. = Cognito spindle design & larger tires

(see pic#3) : Cognito spindle kit
Below: A-arm drop kit

http://www.norcaltruck.com/shop/cog-7-9/image007.jpg

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/statusicon/wol_error.gifThis image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is 522x387 pixels and 32KB in size.http://www.norcaltruck.com/shop/cog-7-9/image010.jpg





well you are right to a point from what i understand. yes whether its a drop spindle or UCA/LCA drop you will be puttin more angle on the steering system but they usually can compensate for that with flippin the tie rods to be on top of the spindle or using a drag link drop kit. The way fabtech ahs designed theres is that on the 8" kit, they only use about 6-7"s to drop the LCA then they lower the lower bumpstop another inch to add an inch into the lift. Thus givin you 8"s of lift but with slightly cranked t-bars. This is why you can not get away with crankin the bars on a fabtech kit to make it 10"s.

now with that plus the 1.5 extended spindles, you are adding more leverage to the steering system. with the two 90* bends in the drag link on either side and the extended spindles plus a steep steering angle, your now really trying to force the pitman/idlerarm to rotate up or down and wear out twice as fast. Maybe my knowledge is a bit off on forces and what not as im not an engineer but i also build suspension systems for trucks and with what i know they seem to work very very well.

Now what i have found to fix the steering problems is the .75" spindles or doin the EXAXT steering kit as what i have. the EXAXT system gives you a straight drag link but uses two big outer tie rods (one as the inner and on as the outer, no ball and cup system like the factory style or cognito HD ones) with a billet steel coller in the middle of the two tie rods to allow toe adjustment (like on the 98 and older IFS). They also give you a 1/2" billet steel ilder arm brace with a greaseable roller bearing to really make sure there is no twist in the draglink.


Yes a Fabtech lift does not drop everything down in the same ratio for there 8" kit so you have enlarged working angle right off the bat because of that.

Has anyone done this yet? I am wanting to do it but want to make sure it is worth the money. I understand that every little bit counts but 3/4 of an inch per side dose not seem like enough? My truck has 28,000 mi, lift was put on @ 11,000 and I have replaced idler arm, pitman arm, both wheel bearings and both upper ball joints. I would like to see that this will help (I know it is part of having the extra weight and strain) I only drive my truck for the most part on the highway and pull my toyhauler to the dunes, so nothing excessive. I have searched the internet and found nothing on this, I really want to buy, but like I said want to make sure it will help. Thanks Oliver

Yes it will help alot. Also add some Cognito steering braces and you will have a better feeling steering over all and the wear will be decreased a ton.

Nick,

Any closer to getting the new Fabtech spindle write-up done? Interested in doing this but need more info. Also, any idea if my 355/60/20's will still fit after the wheels are sucked in?

Chad

i was running the old style fabtech 8 on my last truck and it did what i was supposed to do. the white body shocks that come with the kit are junk. chevy1925 had nick do some custom valving on bilsteins for his lift and his rides much better than mine did. i had no real complaints other than busting a couple tie rods cause of the angle and how far the tires in the front stuck out (threw mud and shit all over the truck when off road). otherwise, seemed like an alright kit. i put that truck and lift through hell and it held together.

i was running the old style fabtech 8 on my last truck and it did what i was supposed to do. the white body shocks that come with the kit are junk. chevy1925 had nick do some custom valving on bilsteins for his lift and his rides much better than mine did. i had no real complaints other than busting a couple tie rods cause of the angle and how far the tires in the front stuck out (threw mud and shit all over the truck when off road). otherwise, seemed like an alright kit. i put that truck and lift through hell and it held together.

not custom, just picked from a few choices i had to best suit my needs :D

not custom, just picked from a few choices i had to best suit my needs :D
whatever you want to call it son. it rides nice