I have an LML motor here on the floor, waiting to get a truck build finished this week and be at shieds with it than next week we will tear it down and check out its guts. Oh its different! but just how much?

let us know Tony

Can you post any pics of the engine?

Brian

what are you doing with it?

Let us know if that dual feed CP3 is in there.

Can you post any pics of the engine?

BrianWe can take some pics.

what are you doing with it?Tear it apart and see what its made of, see if any and what parts are interchangable with older motors.

Let us know if that dual feed CP3 is in there.Yes it does.

Awesome! keep us posted on what you find out!

Kool lots of good pics. Outside before tear down all angles. plus tear down all angles. It would make for one good post to point out where things are located. If you can go as far as detail torque specs that be great. If you post maybe section the post to different areas so not globbed in one single post.

Brian

I'm interested to see how much they really changed on these Duramax engines...

I'm interested to see how much they really changed on these Duramax engines...

Me too

How were you able to get one?

A stork dropped it off.

The changes are subtle, i have had a LML engine since this time last year. i believe i was the first to get one.

not a whole lot changed, turbo, piston ring package, fuel system, head, intake, EGR system just to name a few ....:D

Here is a link to my findings
http://www.dmaxcentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2634

Tony you get that Blue 06 figured out yet?? You were testing it at Caro about a month ago. What truck you putting this LML in?

Here is a link to my findings
http://www.dmaxcentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2634

Your post from that thread.....

I have a LML here all torn apart,

It is a 6.6 Liter with a single VG turbo, piezo injectors, and a delphi opperating system, totally different injection pump,different pistons and ring package, different heads, different intake,and a few more sensors.
the egr system is big and bulky, and mostly stainless.http://dmaxcentral.com/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif



So seeing as it's still a 6.6 does this mean the pistons might be a fit in an LMM / LBZ? Maybe a better replacement than cut LB7 slugs or whatever guys are using ?

Your post from that thread.....




So seeing as it's still a 6.6 does this mean the pistons might be a fit in an LMM / LBZ? Maybe a better replacement than cut LB7 slugs or whatever guys are using ?


Yes they will.

I still dont understand how you guys have this engine already? Could you tell us?

I still dont understand how you guys have this engine already? Could you tell us?


i have had several, for about a year now, 3 got sold and i kept 1, guess it's all who you know.... :D

Still not telling us...???

Do you work for GM?

i want one to i think i'll go try and buy a new 2010 max an see what she'll do with some better breathing ;)

that cp3 has to flow a little more fuel i take it to?? can we swap it in to the older max's?

that cp3 has to flow a little more fuel i take it to?? can we swap it in to the older max's?

yes it flows more, yes it will fit older d-max's, but the rail's are different, but they will fit too, just need a little different plumbing..;)

Anyone got Pics. :D Mike

Where are those pics? Your killing me.

:nopics::nopics:

:nopics::nopics:

X's 2!

Are they still going to be using the same Allison 6speed or are they going to step up to the plate with a better transmission??????

The Ford 6.4's are already pounding down 550hp just with a tuner and completely stock transmissions and so far there holding up ok for the most part.....The Allison will screeeeem bloody murber yelps anywhere near those power levels in stock formation....

Hopefully they either beef up the stock trans or go another route.

With Piezo injectors....the skys the limit on stupid fast nozzle response time...

Hmmm...maybe its not so bad after all.

Is that bcuz they are still 5 speeds? always thought the ally was the cats ass but reading here it seems only in stock form huh?


The Ford 6.4's are already pounding down 550hp just with a tuner and completely stock transmissions and so far there holding up ok for the most part.....

Piezo's are fast but highly unreliable. these may be a different storie though, the bugs may have been worked out...

Piezo's are fast but highly unreliable. these may be a different storie though, the bugs may have been worked out...


Ford had a bad batch on the 6.4L right out of the box but after they dang near replaced every single injector with a NEW one, the problems have pretty much gone away.

The NEW 6.4's seem to be pretty problem free injector wise.


WATER is a huge KILLER of the Piezo design.

How is the 6.4 otherwise? Is it turning out to be a good motor?

How is the 6.4 otherwise? Is it turning out to be a good motor?
Can't be that good, Ford is replacing after only a 4 year run. They could have made 2010 complinat if they wanted to.

Can't be that good, Ford is replacing after only a 4 year run. They could have made 2010 complinat if they wanted to.

Dude there replacing because their contract with International is up.

I have a few buddies with them and all they talk about is the twin turbo and that they smoke DMAX's. I just laugh and ask them how the mileage is ;) Altho they havent had many issues with them and one could argue they are a much stronger truck. I don't care cuz I love my LMM and she does everything I ask her to do with ease!

Cheers!

Oh and don't mean to take this thread off topic but I also notice very few F250's these days. Seems they stock and sell mostly F350's. I get the price is a minimal jump so makes sense and their selling point is the new F350's ride like a 3/4ton. Just more truck to push around I guess....

Whats going on with this Tony? :D

ya also curious

yah lets see some pics

Just give us the pictures, or I won't pet the adorable little kitty, and it will be sad... do you WANT to make the cute kitty sad? :(

I'm starting to call bs... hasn't even bothered to update the thread...

If he doesn't post pictures i say we Shave the cat :D:rolleyes::eek::p::D

LOL, I didnt put up pictures because it sounded like pro stock rcr had it covered.

PS. I like my ***** shaved.

LOL, I didnt put up pictures because it sounded like pro stock rcr had it covered.

PS. I like my ***** shaved.


LMAO...some of us like the same thing...er, I mean d-maxs,..hahah

After you get the shave, can you post the pics?

After you get the shave, can you post the pics?

I would like Before and after pictures For comparison!:p::D

You guys get Off Topic so easy :D

When do you guys think you will have the pics and info posted on this?

well i honestly dont believe this thread...no pictures and everytime someone asks how they got the engine, they change the subject...

sho me the pics!!!

Here are the pics if any other views or specific pictures are wanted i can try to post them

well i honestly dont believe this thread...no pictures and everytime someone asks how they got the engine, they change the subject...

they cant say how they got it cause as soon as people know theyll start houndin whoever they got it from to give them one. and they probably dont wanna give them to just anybody yet

LOL, I didnt put up pictures because it sounded like pro stock rcr had it covered.

PS. I like my ***** shaved.


Sorry i got very busy with engine builds the last month or so, so i couldent really get on here to post pics.

i can say though those pics are a little different than the LML i have. the oil pan and pick up are totally different.

they cant say how they got it cause as soon as people know theyll start houndin whoever they got it from to give them one. and they probably dont wanna give them to just anybody yet

True!

I've got an LGH with Piezo's... It's interesting as well ;)

The CP4.2's output is actually lower than the current CP3.3 in the LBZ/LMM motors.

well i will eat my words and say sorry for not believing you!

now is this new system like a dual cp3? i got alot of questions about some pictures but i wont ask them all!

well i will eat my words and say sorry for not believing you!

Not as many on this site do this, so I commend you :)

now is this new system like a dual cp3? i got alot of questions about some pictures but i wont ask them all!
The pump is a CP4.2, it is a 2 plunger pump, and has roller tappets to actuate the plungers. It displaces less fuel than the CP3.3, it is a higher pressure lower volume pump. The design is for greater pressure at a lower ms pulse width for emission compliance.

in modded trim this pump has produced over 400LPH and RP over 35K :D

dont let the febel minded lead you to beleive this is not as good as what we have today. Testing has showed it to be of a much greater potential.

It will use less fuel to make the same or more HP

It will use less fuel to make the same or more HP

This is possible due to the Injectors vaporizing the fuel better so it takes Less fuel to get the Same Power Correct ? or i'm sure it plays a big part anyway :~)

Makes Ya wonder just how much power you can make with this new motor by adding More air and fuel,ECT...It may not be as Green ,But it sure should Run Mean :~) Modded.
DIRTY MAX!

This is possible due to the Injectors vaporizing the fuel better so it takes Less fuel to get the Same Power Correct ? or i'm sure it plays a big part anyway :~)

Makes Ya wonder just how much power you can make with this new motor by adding More air and fuel,ECT...It may not be as Green ,But it sure should Run Mean :~) Modded.
DIRTY MAX!


Correct!

Its also greener due to less fuel being used and a better burn.

Tony,

Can you say how much of the LML will swap over to an LBZ? I need my VINs on the chassis and engine to be pre -'07 for DMV purposes. May get complicated if an LML was to wind-up under the hood.

-P.

almost everything will swap over. :D

almost everything will swap over. :D
X2

Tony,

Can you say how much of the LML will swap over to an LBZ? I need my VINs on the chassis and engine to be pre -'07 for DMV purposes. May get complicated if an LML was to wind-up under the hood.

-P.

iirc, isn't the last 8 of the vin stamped on the rear adapter plate anyways?

We had the displacement for the 4.2 but have now realized each plunger has 2 actions per revolution. So it is the equivelant of a 4 plunger pump. At 3500 rpm, it displaces 293lph at 5000 rpm 416lph, or 1.4 cubic centimeters per revolution. These are not flow numbers, looks promising!


^^^I was wrong in my data, please disregard

We had the displacement for the 4.2 but have now realized each plunger has 2 actions per revolution. So it is the equivelant of a 4 plunger pump. At 3500 rpm, it displaces 293lph at 5000 rpm 416lph, or 1.4 cubic centimeters per revolution. These are not flow numbers, looks promising!


Maybe now you will listen. i told you this 6 months ago.

Your behind the ball now any way II Modded pumps are ready for shipping in a few weeks.

Have fun playing catch up!!:D

Maybe now you will listen. i told you this 6 months ago.

Your behind the ball now any way II Modded pumps are ready for shipping in a few weeks.

Have fun playing catch up!!:D

I don't remember ever speaking to you, unless you were pretending to be someone you're not. Forgot, you are good at that Wade:D

I will give everyone the lowdown on the 4.2 soon, instead of phony lph numbers, so please disregard any statement I made about the 4.2

I will play the Turtle anyday, we know how that story ends.

I don't remember ever speaking to you, unless you were pretending to be someone you're not. Forgot, you are good at that Wade:D

I will give everyone the lowdown on the 4.2 soon, instead of phony lph numbers, so please disregard any statement I made about the 4.2

I will play the Turtle anyday, we know how that story ends.


yes i do know, you will try to copie what we have again....

but hey thats common bussines practice now a days

Now kids.....

:whip: ):h

Thanks for the Pics. :D Mike

yes i do know, you will try to copie what we have again....

but hey thats common bussines practice now a days
Don't flatter yourself.

Sounds like we have a bit of a pissing match on our hands.

thanks for the pics

Wonder how much power the new CP4 will beable produce compared to the old CP3? Thanks for the info Tony.

Is this wade the same one that used to pretend that he was the best thing to ever happen to cummins/dtr? I think ngm diesel? What did II ever come up with for themselves?

So anybody use those intake manifolds yet on early motor . Caught my eye right away .

Not sure if this is going to be right...i am a "no tech" computer person!!! i love animals and have had them all my life as friends...have 1 grouchy old cat whom i love dearly and 2 pit bulls whom i also love dearly....my buddies....

:smoke2:

:smoke2:

Nice :snipersmi

Doesn't look like the intake manifolds would flow much better, unless you used a better center section feeding both sides.

Note: The intake manifold setup strongly resembles a 6.5 diesel from a van.

So anybody use those intake manifolds yet on early motor . Caught my eye right away .Im thinking....... I had thought about this design just days before i got this motor.

this engine is gonna be interesting...

subscribing

So are we gonna be able to disable the Urea?

subscribing

MMM new Dmax..... Makes me feel funny inside.... lol.... :beerchug:

that EGR looked big

So are we gonna be able to disable the Urea?

X2, I'm curious how tuners will work around the urea stuff...

So are we gonna be able to disable the Urea?

Talked with local dealer yesterday. He stated the Urea system will add about $2000.00 to the price of new truck. Also said the system has to be maintained every so many thousand miles and unit cannot be disabled. But we know how that goes.:D

X2, I'm curious how tuners will work around the urea stuff...

They'll just use the tank to hold something else that they want to inject like say water or water meth.....:eek:

I was told that the system measures specific gravity and it wont run if it runs out.

I was told that the system measures specific gravity and it wont run if it runs out.

Sure, but wouldn't that measurement be reported to the computer electronically? In which case, a tuner like EFI Live could set the parameters for what the truck "needs" (or wants) to see out of that system? In other words, set the criteria (or the measurement) it wants the truck to see in order to run properly, just as it does for EGR operation, etc?

tfi...

not gonna be takein out. hahaha. that wont last long

Me Three I Wana See

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/08/first-look-2011-duramax-diesel-v8-engine.html

Plug it in: it's a link to a press release on some major details of these 2011's.

If you ask me: These things are not what you want! You thought the LMM has too much air care junk....?!:drop_mout

To what point does it get that they just scrap diesel all together!

I also heard in 2012, there will no longer be able to be produced new, two stroke engines!

I'm curious about this new cp4.2 fuel system. If these new cp4's turn out to flow more fuel modded, or are a more efficient way to make power than the cp3's then it shows in the picture the dual feed feeds one rail then that rail feeds the other rail, could this be changed so that you have one line feeding each rail to get more fuel sort of like a duel fueler setup but only one pump, and would this setup work on an early gen duramax? Just a thought.

you will want both lines going to one area to balance the pulses.

you will want both lines going to one area to balance the pulses.

thats why the LML/LGH injection pump must be timed to the cam unlike the LB7/LLY/LBZ/LMM CP3. ;)

ben

So basically they both run to one rail to keep the supply of fuel up, if each side ran to a rail it wouldn't be able to keep up because of the pulse of the pump?

No, each individual line pulses...and you don't want pulsing in your fuel rail, you want a steady flow of fuel. given the fact that each line pulses alternately if you hook them to the same place they will esentially cancel out eachothers pulse and give you as close to a steady pressure as you can get with a piston pump.

No, each individual line pulses...and you don't want pulsing in your fuel rail, you want a steady flow of fuel. given the fact that each line pulses alternately if you hook them to the same place they will esentially cancel out eachothers pulse and give you as close to a steady pressure as you can get with a piston pump.Oh ok I understand it now thanks for explaining.

How do the rods and pistons look? Could this be a possible upgrade for an LBZ engine build?

The piston and rod combo weighs 165 grams less than an LBZ, The rods look like they are from the same mold other than the wrist pin end of the rod is narrower. Pistons look nice, no bushings in the wrist pin holes.

The piston and rod combo weighs 165 grams less than an LBZ, The rods look like they are from the same mold other than the wrist pin end of the rod is narrower. Pistons look nice, no bushings in the wrist pin holes.

"Pistons look nice". Are you thinking better quality like the LB7/LLY Pistons? or?

No bushings in the wrist pin holes. This sounds like piston matirial was'nt removed to make room for a bushing. This should be a stronger piston?

Hard to judge, years ago ew thought that LBZ pistons looked better than lb7 and lly pistons but time proved looks to be wrong.

Yes there is more meat around the wrist pin area.

The reason the bushings were done away with was because by doing so the piston would now be less likley to crack over the wrist pin area and travel to and across the crown/bowl area like most stock pistons do. i think it was a smarter move on there part for sure. lighter is better thou

165g x 8 = about 3 lbs less recipricating weight, another bright move....:D

How do the new pistons and rods compare to what's available in the aftermarket?

-P.

LML rod cap bolts are stronger as well.

So is this CP4, going to be available in the market? What would it take to mount in a build for an lly engine?

Is this wade the same one that used to pretend that he was the best thing to ever happen to cummins/dtr? I think ngm diesel? What did II ever come up with for themselves?


I never do remember him saying he was the best but hey he was the first in the 10's. Thats gotta tell you something

The pic's hb max posted are a old lml test engine, it has paint marks all over it and rust so it was left outside. Most likely it was supposed to be scraped, by gm or a outside vender and it wasn't. The lml 900 thats running right now is different.

The pic's hb max posted are a old lml test engine, it has paint marks all over it and rust so it was left outside. Most likely it was supposed to be scraped, by gm or a outside vender and it wasn't. The lml 900 thats running right now is different.

interesting. :)

The pic's hb max posted are a old lml test engine, it has paint marks all over it and rust so it was left outside. Most likely it was supposed to be scraped, by gm or a outside vender and it wasn't. The lml 900 thats running right now is different.What do the production engines have that is different than the test engines?

subscribing

Me too!

What do the production engines have that is different than the test engines?

the fact that he recognizes that early prototype LML engine and knows that the current LML's are different probably means he cant say what is different about the "final production" LML's. ;)

So the LMLs still have a common rail injection system?

Twin Turbo?

Yes, but they use piezo injectors, and a double acting CP4 pump. I doubt they changed that part from the prototype engines.

Twin Turbo?
no

I really dont know why someone at GM with the authority to release some much wanted info doesnt step forward and do so. All i can tell you is i dont have that authority.

Twin Turbo?

no

DAMN.... Seeing how Ford is releasing the new 6.7 with twins and the previous PSD had twins you would think GM would compete in the turbo department.

DAMN.... Seeing how Ford is releasing the new 6.7 with twins and the previous PSD had twins you would think GM would compete in the turbo department.

whats that supposed to mean?

if they can make the same performance with only a single turbo then wtf do you need two for; twins just means more expense, complication, and one more thing to go wrong...just because its "twin turbos", so that means its better? :rolleyes:

DAMN.... Seeing how Ford is releasing the new 6.7 with twins and the previous PSD had twins you would think GM would compete in the turbo department.
The Ford 6.7 has 1 turbo. They dumped the twin idea International used on the 6.4 for the same reasons Ben stated.

LML rod cap bolts are stronger as well.

they work in place of the other model rod cap bolts or are they one-trick ponies?

Wonder when spply houses will start having stuff for these engines on-hand? I'd imagine around the same time the trucks hit the market. I'm sure the parts are already being mass produced.



C-ya

Gee, I hope they stay with the same design and supplier that has been making the $hitty external fluid lines for GM forever.

That Positive attitude is gonna get you No Where LOL

That Positive attitude is gonna get you No Where LOL
You're right, I apologize.;) My LBZ's lines are currently making me sour.

the new powrchoke 6.7 is not a "twin turbo" or a "single" more like one and a half. It is a single shaft, single turbine, with a two stage compressor housing. The wheel has fins on both sides making it a compounding compressor. Sadly my boss just ordered one for the farm, it will be put to the test for sure!!!!

tony can you post pictures of the LML/LGH pistons?

I really dont know why someone at GM with the authority to release some much wanted info doesnt step forward and do so. All i can tell you is i dont have that authority.

All I have been told is that there is another bump in hp. Likely 400hp 700tq.:confused:

:Dtony can you post pictures of the LML/LGH pistons?
yes please.

bump

Dude there replacing because their contract with International is up.

And they are tired of taking each other to court, just cut the ties now with the contract up

guess we will just have to wait for the LML's to be released in order to see these pics. :rolleyes:

guess we will just have to wait for the LML's to be released in order to see these pics. :rolleyes:
Sorry but we have been a little busy!

even 1 picture would do for now, please.

I'm in SW Ohio on business, and I just heard some coffee-shop talk about a nearby LMM plant shutting down rather than converting to LML. Have there been any anouncements from GM lately?

Sorry guys for taking so long but here is some pictures of the pistons. In all the pictures the piston on the right is the LML piston and the piston on the left is a LBZ piston.

Interesting pistons, rods look shorter??

The wrist pin looks a little smaller, less material removed for the pin bore. Also piston looks beefed up a little around the wrist pin area.

Interesting pistons, rods look shorter??
Rod is the same length, just a little narrower at the wrist pin area. The LML rod and piston combo is 150 grams lighter than the LBZ. The wrist pin is shorter and lighter.

Is that a full floating wrist pin?

I'm curious to find out how these pistons hold over the LBZ/LMM pistons. Hopefully better.

Is that a full floating wrist pin?Same as all the rest.

Thouht I saw a circlip in there...

eh I bet it will crack just the same as the LBZ's/LMM's.

eh I bet it will crack just the same as the LBZ's/LMM's.

Thanks for the high hopes. :D

Thanks for the high hopes. :D
One word dude, Mahle

shorter, smaller skirts

One word dude, Mahle

Yea, but we have to deal with the Ming Hong Pistons. :mad: Until they crack at least. :(

Thanks for the high hopes. :D

My thoughts exactly.

shorter, smaller skirts

What's that mean? More problems?

What's that mean? More problems?

less weight, less friction

less weight, less friction

Also more localized cylinder wall loading :eek:

Bump for good info

good pics ....

So does anybody know if the rods are stronger than the LBZ's and if anybody has built a motor using the new internals of the LML?

So does anybody know if the rods are stronger than the LBZ's and if anybody has built a motor using the new internals of the LML?

To hard to say because there really isn't a programmer out there pushing the LML to the limits yet. According to my findings though, no.