3 questions

what is the output power of the factory Bose amp and will it push an aftermarket 10in.?

what size is the factory sub?

I have the non-split rear bench seat, is there a way to fold down the back or does it have to come out?

It will not push an aftermarket 10 that well at all.

You did not post the specifics on your vehicle, so it makes it a bit more difficult for us to offer help.

Check out http://duramax.onlinedesk.net/subwoofer/index.htm for some photos of my own upgrade. There are some photos of the factory subwoofer there.

The stock Bose sub (RPO code for the Bose speaker system is UQ7) is a 6.5" dual voice coil driver in a plastic bandpass enclosure. Nobody will ever know the wattages/amp specs for Bose systems because Bose is very secretive with their ratings. This is because Bose tends to rely on very efficent finely tuned speaker designs/enclosures to get good output rather than just "a lot of watts". Its kind of like the Honda S2000 engine versus the good old Vortec 8100. They are both good engines and make a lot of power, but the Vortec makes lots of power just because its a huge honkin' hunk of steel. Where as the S2000 engine is so finely tuned that it can make 250 hp from not much more than 2 liters of displacement. I would honestly be surprised if the Bose amp was sending more than 45 or 50 watts to the sub. Of course this is the Bose "Premium" amp we are talking about...The Escalades, Denali's and H2's get the Bose "Luxury" amp which has quite a bit more output and GREATLY increased clarity. The wierd thing is that the physical speaker systems (like the drivers themselves) in all the Bose-equipped GMT-800's are identical (be it a Silverado, Escalade, Tahoe, Suburban, Denali, etc). The ONLY difference between a Bose "luxury" system and a "premium" system (for those of us that have Bose in our trucks, we have the "Premium" system) is the amplifier.
I had to change my truck to a Luxury amp because I installed a touch-screen navitgation unit from an Escalade (the nav unit is made to work with the LUX amp, not the premium amp). Boy, the increase in audio quality is incredible!!!!:ro) SOOO much more bass and MUCH MUCH clearer sound quality. It will now actually go loud to the point where I cant really stand it. And with no distortion! It sounds "like a Bose system should". Smooth, warm mid-bass, good clarity, and not too intrusive highs. Now the bass wont shatter windows 2 miles away, because remember its still the same small 6.5" sub. BUT I gaurantee anyone that gets in the car will mistake it for a decent 8" sub. It really is surprising. Get in a 2003 or newer Escalade, turn the bass up all the way, and you will hear what I mean.
Anyways...sorry for the digression...I doubt the Bose amp will push an aftermarket 10" sub. Bose stuff in general is proprietory (sp) and doesnt play well with anything that doesnt say "Bose" on it. The speaker impedances are wierd, etc... Your best bet is bridging the stock sub-woofer outputs of the amp (remember the stock sub is a dual voice coil unit, thats why you have to bridge the outputs) with an LOC and setting up an aftermarket amp/sub that way. OR bridge the stock SUB outputs of the Bose amp and input them into the high-level inputs of the aftermarket amp. Both of these ways are good because you maintain the stock Bose cross-over so everything still sounds good and the aftermarket sub matches well with the stock Bose speakers. Hope that helps!!

---Ben

I wonder if that is the reason my one 10" doesnt sound as good as it should. I only took off one side of the stock bose system and went mono to my one sub.

Souns like I should take each side and then run it "stereo" to the sub and put the amp in bridge mode. DO you think that woul dmake that much of a different? I do not know much about dual voice coils.

yes!!! DEFINETLY grab both (all 4) Bose sub outputs. Then, as you said, put the amp in bridge mode and run the sub that way. You will have much better bass!

---Ben

Hmmh. Its 11pm, I got a few hours, I could to it now ;)

I am pulling from the bose amp high outputs and going from there to my 10".

I do not know what color pairs are for the sub on the pre-amp side.

Any one else?

The radio/preamp does not have any "sub outputs"... It sends full range rear and front left and right audio signals to the amp and the amp uses its built-in cross over to determine which frequencies should go to the sub and which go to the speakers. There is no high-frequency cross over for the tweeters. Bose just wires the tweeters in parallel with the front door speakers and then puts a capaciter on the tweeter to kinda give it a "poor man's cross over". The capacitor roughly cuts lower frequencies so the tweeter doesnt blow. The sub on the other hand, as I said before, DOES actually get a "real" cross over that is internal to the amp. Who knows what frequency it is set at though...Bose would surrender and go belly up before they would ever release things like power ratings and such.):h

---Ben

Anyone ever had any experience with the following?

http://www.audiowarehouse.peachhost.com/ct_PR200461359.htm

That PAC adapter is only for Bose "Luxury" amp equipped vehicles (Escalade, Denali and H2). The PAC adapter that will work with your "Premium" amp equipped Bose system is called the AOEM-GM24. The two amplfiers work and interface with the head unit completely differently so that is why there needs to be two different adapters for each amp system. Luckilly the "Premium" amp adapters are cheaper (~55$ vs ~85$)!! See here: http://jpcustoms.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16239&cat=307&page=1
Although its probably best to keep it set-up the way you currently have it, although make sure you grab both Bose sub outputs (run the aftermarket amp in stereo). That way, you keep the exact Bose stock cross over and everything should sound the best.

---Ben

Great. I'll stick with that I have and switch to a bridged setup.

Here is how I have it wired now.

http://duramax.onlinedesk.net/subwoofer/DSCN4126.JPG

Right Connector Cable - Audio Amplifier - C2 - UQ7 w/o Y91

Connector Part Information 12110626 8-Way F Metri-Pack 280 Series (GRY)

Pin Wire Color Circuit No. Function
A) BLK/WHT 1851 Ground
B) DK GRN 1795 Right Subwoofer Speaker Output (+)
C) -- -- Not Used
D) LT GRN/BLK 1794 Left Subwoofer Speaker Output (-)
E) DK BLU/WHT 346 Left Subwoofer Speaker Output (+)
F) -- -- Not Used
G) LT BLU/BLK 315 Right Subwoofer Speaker Output (-)
H) ORN 3740 Battery Positive Voltage

DuratotheMAX, would you happen to have the part number for the "premium" amp? Thanks.

Thanks alot for the info, it will help substantially. looks a little scary taking out the console:eek: , I was hoping I did'nt have to go in there.


andrewfessler: specs, 03 Sierra 2500HD 47,685mi , D/A, Burgandy paint, tan interior,power steering, emergency brake inop,floormats, American flag sticker on the back window, CO plates, and tires!!!:joke: :lol:

Andrew--- Yup, I was just looking at my tech docs and connector pin-out charts and it seems you have your LOC hooked up (good soldering!! thats the best way to go..just make sure those get taped up well) to receive the LEFT SUB output from the Bose amp. So theoretically, you are only receiving half the bass from the Bose amp. You can either "bridge" the outputs from the Bose amp (like take the + from the left and the - from the right) or, as you stated, grab all 4 inputs off the Bose sub and run your aftermarket amp in bridge stereo mode. You might want to try both just to see what sounds better. Hope that helps!

---Ben

smshiver--- GM likes to use many different part numbers for the same parts (for example, there are literally 6 different part numbers for the LUX amp and they are all physically identical). The part number for the PREMIUM amp I used to have is 15054672. Now, with my Escalade navigation unit I use a LUX amp (much better sound quality and much more bass).

---Ben

Andrew--- Yup, I was just looking at my tech docs and connector pin-out charts and it seems you have your LOC hooked up (good soldering!! thats the best way to go..just make sure those get taped up well) to receive the LEFT SUB output from the Bose amp. So theoretically, you are only receiving half the bass from the Bose amp. You can either "bridge" the outputs from the Bose amp (like take the + from the left and the - from the right) or, as you stated, grab all 4 inputs off the Bose sub and run your aftermarket amp in bridge stereo mode. You might want to try both just to see what sounds better. Hope that helps!

---Ben

I highly recommend you connect your right sub outputs up to your FAI-3A and run stereo RCAs to your amp. If you bridge the Pose amp outputs you'll most likely let the smoke out of it...

Ox

You do not have to take the center console completely out like I did. I only took it out to figure out what all was beneath it. I believe in my write up I listed the minimum steps needed to take place to get access to the wiring from the amp. Its behind the fold down cup-holder on the rear of the center console.

Hope this helps.

Nice rig!!

Thanks alot for the info, it will help substantially. looks a little scary taking out the console:eek: , I was hoping I did'nt have to go in there.


andrewfessler: specs, 03 Sierra 2500HD 47,685mi , D/A, Burgandy paint, tan interior,power steering, emergency brake inop,floormats, American flag sticker on the back window, CO plates, and tires!!!:joke: :lol:

How many hours do you think it took you to make the subwoofer setup in your truck? Do the 2 8s give clean hard bass? Meaning can you feel it, not just hear it?

I put the single 10" in my truck so I could feel some bass, however, I do not feel it as much as I "hear" it.

I am open to suggestions and ideas and am contemplating buying a CC subwoofer box for behind the seat. Found several running around $150.

- Andrew


I highly recommend you connect your right sub outputs up to your FAI-3A and run stereo RCAs to your amp. If you bridge the Pose amp outputs you'll most likely let the smoke out of it...

Ox

Sorry this may be a dumb question, but did you also check to make sure that the Bose sub and your aftermarket sub were in phase? That will really make the sound messed up if the two subs are not in phase...

---Ben

Of course not :)

I figured that since the stock sub was wimpy, that the 10" would over power it and I'd never notice a difference. I could unhook the stock one.

I dont really know how to check phase and all, unless it is a simple as watching the polarity into the LOC.

I have time tonight and am going to rip into it and add the right channel sub input.

The wife will be away :)


Sorry this may be a dumb question, but did you also check to make sure that the Bose sub and your aftermarket sub were in phase? That will really make the sound messed up if the two subs are not in phase...

---Ben

The simplest way to check that the speakers are in phase is to either unhook one and see if it sounds better, or reverse the polarity of one speaker. Taking the right AND left sub channels (from the Bose amp) and wiring them to the LOC seems like the best way to go. Then, as you said, hook the left and right RCA's to the aftermarket amp and set the amp in bridge mode. Good luck!! Let us know how it turns out.

---Ben

Thanks DuratotheMAX. Do you have the number to the LUX amp at hand? That's what I want to try to get and install.

Thanks.

Edited for spelling error.

[QUOTE=smshiver]Do you have the number to the LUX amp at hand?[QUOTE]

Well...which one do you want...:rolleyes: The most popular ones are the Denali (15114454), Escalade (15191601), and H2 (i forget the first numbers...it ends in '044) amplifiers. However, as I said before, there are like 7 different ones. They are all identical and work identically...GM just likes to make things confusing so thats the reason for many different part numbers. The only LUX amp that does NOT work with the nav (for some strange reason) is 15054675. Remember the amp is NOT plug-and-play. You have to do a little bit of rewiring at the amp connector. Nothing big, you just have to extract some pins from the plastic connector and put the pins in different places. I can help you out as you go...

---Ben

Ben ... THANK YOU:D I'll probably order the one from the Denali. I just want the better sound. Probably will never install a nav unit.

Will be PM'ing and posting for assistance in changing the pins;)

Thanks again.

Ben ... THANK YOU:D I'll probably order the one from the Denali. I just want the better sound. Probably will never install a nav unit.

Will be PM'ing and posting for assistance in changing the pins;)

Thanks again.

AHH!!! WAIT!!! The standard UC6 6-disc radio/changer that comes standard with the Bose system in our trucks does NOT work with the LUX amp!!!! If you really dont want nav but want the LUX amp sound, replace your UC6 with a UC6 from an early H2. The 6-disc radio/changer that goes into early H2's is made to work with the LUX amp because H2's had the LUX amp from 2003 until mid-year 2004. Mid year 2004, GM decided to save money and put the PREMIUM Bose systems into H2's. The "LUX AMP" 6 disc radios look and function identically to the Premium amp versions...they are just different inside. The model number for the 6 disc radio that you are looking for (one that works with a lux amp) is 15179349. Check ebay...just type "15179349" into the search field and check the little box that says "search title and description". Ill check ebay right now for you.

---Ben

Thanks Ben. I think I'm getting the picture. Sent you a couple of PM's for further clarification.

well, I did get the left and right sub channes hooked up to my LOC and then bridged on the amp. It sounds a little better, but not as good as I had before in my Tahoe.

I stuffed the 2 12s that are in a band pass box in the rear seat, and they sounded so much better. There was better, less muddy sounding bass from them. This confirms to me that the frequencies are there, just the 10" I have cant re-produce them.

I went to wal-mart too and bought some white stuffing and put in the box, that helped just a little.

I like bass that is beefy and crisp with limited muddiness.

I'll post pictures later of what my old setup looked like in my Tahoe.

Anyone have experience with the dual 10s box made for Crew Cabs?

Anyone in the market for two 12s? I'll get the specs later.

Unfortunatly I think it it just a problem with the Bose amp. Bose is VERY wierd about their EQ adjustments and internal amplifier sound processors. They dont do ANYTHING in a standard way and have some really sneaky ways of making things sound different than they actually are. This is probably what is happening here... The amp/EQ is probably tuned PERFECTLY to produce bass that ONLY sounds good when played from that EXACT subwoofer driver in THAT specific enclosure (the under console one). And so when you try to hook up a "normal" sub to it, it just sounds wierd. Your best bet is maybe a PAC adapter that plugs in between the amp and head unit and "extracts" the full range, UNALTERED, "un-boseified" signal. It still sends the audio signal to the amp, but it also gives you full range RCA pre-outs that will work perfectly with an aftermarket amp. Because the problem is not with the head unit like some people think... 99 out of 100 people probably could not tell the quality difference between the low level audio signal from a Delco head unit and a good aftermarket head unit. The difference is all in the AMP. Thats where it starts to sound worse. Here is the PAC adapter unit. http://www.jpcustoms.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16239&cat=307&page=1

---Ben

Phase check of a cone speaker is very simple:

Take any 1.5V battery and connect the plus side of the speaker wire to the plus side of the battery and the negative wire of the speaker to the negative side of the battery. The speaker cone will move forward if connected properly - if moving backward (into the driver assembly) the plus wire IS NOT the plus wire! The phase of the speaker can be compared that way, as long its a moving cone and the movement is clearly visible. :)

ahh good tip, thanks!!

---Ben