I have a Kenwood DVD touch screen with the option of GPS Nav for $1500.00
or I could go with the trucker style Cobra GPSM3000 Nav for about $1000.00
or the Garmin GPSMap 276C $500.00, The Kenwood would intergrate well with my system but is permanit in my truck the Cobra and Garmin are portable but the Cobra is bulky, Has anyone tryed any of these?

Don't know where you're looking, but a quick internet search led me to a price around 600 on that cobra...

http://www.compuplus.com/insidepage.php3?refer=streetprices&id=1003151

Don't know where you're looking, but a quick internet search led me to a price around 600 on that cobra...

http://www.compuplus.com/insidepage.php3?refer=streetprices&id=1003151

I swear I saw it on one web site for $1005.00 and in the local Trucker Flyer for 1400.00 Canadian No Sh(t!

Here is a good review of the Cobra.
http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=128

I currently use the Garmin 2620 and have found it to be the best portable mobile unit currently out.

Here are a couple of web sites that have good info.
http://www.gps.tv/ (Has a video review of the 276c)

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=86

I bought a Magellan RoadMate 700 for my wife. Nice unit, very easy to use (she's not technical at all), beautiful maps. Played around with a friends Garmin unit and considered since it allows waypoints, tracks, things you expect from a GPS (which I do find useful on my Magellan SporTrak Pro--handheld for hunting). Chose the Magellan for ease of use and the maps are simply nicer--besides, not too common that I would not be able to enter an address or an intersection. I was concerned about the screen size but it is more than adequate plus the sound on the magellan is much better and integrated into the unit. Sound on the Garmin comes from a small speaker where the power cord plugs into the lighter. Both good units with European maps available--useful if renting a car on vacation. The Magellan was $849 at Costco. Biggest beef is probably the Magellan updates--they are notoriously slow with promised software updates. They've been extemely fair to me on my SporTrak and it is without a doubt the best handheld for heavy forest cover. See http://gpsinformation.net/ (http://gpsinformation.net/) for a wealth of info.

My Garmin 2620 rocks....

I have a Garmin 2610, absolutely love it. Use the CF card for the wifes camera when not travelling, works out great.

On the plus side for the intergrated Kenwood, is that the unit works very well and is well organized and accurate. I have 5 different GPS units and the Kenwood is the best. Plus you gon't have to put an extra item on your dash with a wire to your cigarette lighter. Down side is you cannot input new addresses while driving like you can with a portable unit.

I'm currently testing a Lowance Iway500c for a buddy... Touchscreen 5" portable.

After using Garmin for years, has taken me a while to get used to different software, but outside of that a couple of thoughts compared to my Garmin Quest:

A) Unit seems to struggle to get good reception. All it can do to get a good enough signal to go 3D w/ WAAS enabled. Seems to spend most if it's time in 2D, with 100' plus of error, while my Quest rarely shows more than 40' of error, and often less than 20'

B) Twice the unit has seemed to stop functioning as touch screen... very frustrating when that quits working.

C) Once you get used to how to use the software, the touchscreen functionality is really nice.

D) This thing is heavy. Portability is a relative term.

E) Just as with Quest, can do address level routing, and it talks to you

I know you didn't ask about the Lowrance, but since you're looking at 5" or so screens, this one would be worth taking a look at.

I use my "custom installed" Delco factory-OEM Escalade touch-screen navigation radio!!!:ro) It works perfectly and integrates with every stock function in the truck (OnStar, steering wheel controls, XM, etc). I use an Escalade/Denali style 6-disc CD changer so I can play CDs and use the nav at the same time. It was a fun install and I HIGHLY recommend it.

---Ben

I am now leaning towards the Kenwood unit, I'v read some reviews that give it very good reveiw, also even though its the most money and non portable, I still like the clean look of just one unit. Thanks for all your help it really helped me make up my mind.:ro)

I use my "custom installed" Delco factory-OEM Escalade touch-screen navigation radio!!!:ro)

---Ben

Hey Ben,

Where did you get all the parts? Dealer, or elsewhere?

Hey Ben,

Where did you get all the parts? Dealer, or elsewhere?

eBay!! I got the LUXURY Bose amp for about 45$ (used) on ebay and I got the TNR (Touchscreen Navigation Radio) for 1025$ (new). The GPS antenna came with my TNR cause the guy selling it bundled them together, but normally you have to buy it separatly (they cost around 45$). Thats it! You have to do some MINOR rewiring of the amp connector. (you pull some pins out and put them in different positions because the LUX amp works differently than the PREMIUM amp) I have all the directions and charts to rewire the amp connectors and I can help you every step of the way if you are looking to do this project... I am very happy with it..the nav works perfectly and best of all, it looks factory stock and integrates with all the factory functions (onstar, xm, steering wheel controls). Overall, Im very happy with the unit.

---Ben

Thanks for the info Ben. I am planning to do this and I would love to get any of the diagrams from you as well as pick your brain.

Dan-- Do you have an email address I can send all the info/diagrams/charts to?

---Ben

eBay!! I got the LUXURY Bose amp for about 45$ (used) on ebay and I got the TNR (Touchscreen Navigation Radio) for 1025$ (new). The GPS antenna came with my TNR cause the guy selling it bundled them together, but normally you have to buy it separatly (they cost around 45$). Thats it! You have to do some MINOR rewiring of the amp connector. (you pull some pins out and put them in different positions because the LUX amp works differently than the PREMIUM amp) I have all the directions and charts to rewire the amp connectors and I can help you every step of the way if you are looking to do this project... I am very happy with it..the nav works perfectly and best of all, it looks factory stock and integrates with all the factory functions (onstar, xm, steering wheel controls). Overall, Im very happy with the unit.

---Ben

how long did it take? does the luxury bose amp only come in caddy's?

which of these would you get?

http://motors.search.ebay.com/escalade-navigation_eBay-Motors_W0QQcatrefZC5QQfclZ3QQfromZR7QQfrppZ50QQfso oZ1QQfsopZ3QQsacatZ6000QQsbrsrtZl

Well it depends which unit... There ARE units that work with the "Premium" Bose amp. So that way you would not have to install a LUX amp or rewire anything. I went with the LUX unit though because I wanted the better sound quality. The Lux TNR's (Touchscreen Navigation Radio) have part numbers that end in '7531 and '0099 (they are identical, just '0099 is a newer revision). The NON-Lux (Premium) TNR's have part numbers that end in '7287 and '9287.
If you dont care about the touchscreen, you can also buy (for about half the price) an INR (Integrated Navigation Radio). These do the same thing and work the same, except they are just a little older (they went into 2003 and 2004 Escalades/Denalis) and dont have a touchscreen. They use a liittle joystick to act like a "mouse". The INR's come in lux and NON-lux (Premium) flavors too, but the NON-lux INR's are really rare. Almost all of the INR's are LUX models. Thier part numbers end in '4334 and '4335. The rare NON-lux INR's part number ends in '8421.
Basically, on eBay, DONT listen to the person's description because most of them just say "oh this will work in any GM SUV or truck". They are wrong!!! There is NO "universal" navigation unit!!! The unit will either work with a LUX amp or a Premium amp, not both. Check the part numbers of the items on ebay and that should give you an idea which unit to bid on/buy.

---Ben

The Lux amp only comes in the whole Escalade line, both regular and XL Yukon Denali's, and early Hummer H2's. The H2 had the lux amp from when it came out until mid-year 2004.

---Ben

thanks for the info.

Is there really a sound quality difference between PREMIUM and LUX?

is touch screen worth an extra $500?

I have an INR in my truck. My wife has the TNR (touchscreen) in her truck. They both function the same except for the obvious difference of data input. If I had a choice, I would get the touchscreen.

I did the conversion before the touchscreen model was available. I also did it before I found out you could get a non-Lux version.

ohhh yesss there most certainly IS a difference in sound quality!!! When I first hooked up my lux amp, I had the door open so obviously the chimes came right on...get this...I could actually notice a difference in the chimes!!! I noticed right away there wasnt the normal background hissssss when the chimes played...and the chimes actually sounded crisper. Then I turned on the ignition and FM radio stations (granted, ones that came in real well) sounded as good as CD's did with the PREMIUM system!! Finally I popped in a CD and I was sold... there is much much more bass, not that much more treble (there is SOME more), but most of all, it was CLEAR!!! Not mushy and muffled and distorted like the Premium system. Just warm, clear "Bose" sound. (good Bose equipment just has a certain unmistakable type of sound to it...the Lux amp has that sound! The Premium amp just sounds like crap compared to it)

---Ben

PS--- when you really think about it...I only paid another 50 dollars to get LUX sound. Because non-lux and lux TNR's are the same price, and I got my lux amp on ebay for about 45 dollars...
As for the TNR vs INR, its really just preference. Some people really like the INR for its simplicity and because the screen stays clean (no fingerprints). I just went with the TNR because the screen is slightly bigger, I personally think it looks a little better than the INR, and I liked how tuning was acomplished with a rotating knob on the TNR. (vs the INR which you press a "rocker" button to tune the radio) Also, I just felt that inputing destinations is a lot easier and more intuitive with the touch screen. So for me, it was worth the extra money. However, there are many other people who dont mind and then some just may like the INR better. The interfaces are pretty much similar (so its not like you are getting some huge new "software" feature with the TNR) so if you are looking to save some money, you will be perfectly happy with an INR

ohhh yesss there most certainly IS a difference in sound quality!!! When I first hooked up my lux amp, I had the door open so obviously the chimes came right on...get this...I could actually notice a difference in the chimes!!! I noticed right away there wasnt the normal background hissssss when the chimes played...and the chimes actually sounded crisper. Then I turned on the ignition and FM radio stations (granted, ones that came in real well) sounded as good as CD's did with the PREMIUM system!! Finally I popped in a CD and I was sold... there is much much more bass, not that much more treble (there is SOME more), but most of all, it was CLEAR!!! Not mushy and muffled and distorted like the Premium system. Just warm, clear "Bose" sound. (good Bose equipment just has a certain unmistakable type of sound to it...the Lux amp has that sound! The Premium amp just sounds like crap compared to it)

---Ben

PS--- when you really think about it...I only paid another 50 dollars to get LUX sound. Because non-lux and lux TNR's are the same price, and I got my lux amp on ebay for about 45 dollars...
As for the TNR vs INR, its really just preference. Some people really like the INR for its simplicity and because the screen stays clean (no fingerprints). I just went with the TNR because the screen is slightly bigger, I personally think it looks a little better than the INR, and I liked how tuning was acomplished with a rotating knob on the TNR. (vs the INR which you press a "rocker" button to tune the radio) Also, I just felt that inputing destinations is a lot easier and more intuitive with the touch screen. So for me, it was worth the extra money. However, there are many other people who dont mind and then some just may like the INR better. The interfaces are pretty much similar (so its not like you are getting some huge new "software" feature with the TNR) so if you are looking to save some money, you will be perfectly happy with an INR

should this one work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38653&item=7975693858&rd=1

what is the antenna he is talking about? Ive already got that correct?

what search terms can i use to find the lux amp?

How long did the total R&R cost you?

thanks

also, a lot of auctions say once you install this you have to take it to a dealer to have it programmed for your truck to recognize it, is this true?

Yup that radio will work perfectly. The antenna he is talking about is the GPS antenna to receive the satellite signals. You just mount it right under the dash and it plugs into the back of the radio. 45 dollars i think from GM Parts Direct. Use the terms "bose amp" "bose amplifier" "gm bose" "denali amp" "escalade amp" "denali amplifier" "escalade amplifier" "lux amp". I cant really think of what else to use...you should find at least one with those. The total project probably took me a day (casually though...looking back on it, if i had really moved, I probably could have done it in a couple hours). When they say it has to be programmed, they are talking about the Theftlock feature. All 2003 and newer GM radios have it, even the base radios in the Work Trucks. It basically talks to the BCM and learns the VIN of your truck, so if it is moved to another vehicle, it wont work because it sees that the VIN is different. Programming a new VIN into a radio takes 5 minutes at the dealer and some dealers wont even charge you for it. There is a "bypass" trick that works temporarrily so you can use the radio to test your install without running all the way to the dealer. You just turn the key to ACC and once the radio comes on and shows "Theftlock Engaged" on teh display, pull the radio fuse for 5 seconds and replace it. This will "unlock" the radio and you will be able to use all the radio functions unless you try to start the car. Once you try to start the car OR turn the ignition to ON, the radio locks up again. Alternatively, you can just unplug the main radio connector on teh back of the radio for 5 seconds instead of pulling the fuse...

---Ben

Dan-- Do you have an email address I can send all the info/diagrams/charts to?

---Ben

senility@gmail.com

thanks for the input, guess it will be a little harder to find that lux amp, cant find it anywhere, any idea how much it is from GM?

From GM Parts Direct the amp is around 300$. Wait a bit on ebay and im sure one will turn up! Check wrecking yards too...

---Ben

What all would be involved in installing this in a non-bose truck? Mine is standard (b/c of the bench seat).

How does the nav get mapping info? From a cd? Is the radio a changer?

Well, non-Bose TNR's are available through JP Customs (www.jpcustoms.com), but you would only be using the stock speakers so it would sound exactly like it does now. Your alternative is to buy a Bose "Premium" TNR (because they are abundant on eBay...the non-Bose TNR's are impossible to find unless you buy it new from JP Customs) and use a PAC AOEM-GM24 adapter. This allows you to use an aftermarket amp with the TNR. Of course anything is possible...technically you COULD install a lux amp in your truck...it would just require more work. My recommendation is to buy a Bose "Premium" TNR (part number that ends in '7287 or '9287) and then buy the PAC adapter. Then you can run whatever audio you want. You can buy a simple little aftermarket 4 channel amp and hook it up to the stock speakers or go all out with subs and the works! Even if you went with a simple aftermarket amp/stock speakers, it would sound much better than it does now. Good luck!

---Ben

thanks, will keep my eyes open on ebay.......

think i found one, will this one work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7976022604

Yup!! That one will work perfectly!!

sorry Duckhunter...I forgot your other question...
It uses 1 DVD that covers the entire United States and Im pretty sure most of Canada. The TNR has one CD slot internal to it. This is where you insert the map DVD. You can eject the map DVD and play Audio CDs in it, but this of course means you can not use navigation. The whole radio functions as normal, it just wont display a map until you eject the audio CD and put the nav DVD back in. That is why most people install a Denali/Escalade style 6 disc slot load CD changer (called a "CDX") in the center console pocket right below the 2 12volt outlets. You can also buy a magazine 6 disc changer and put it under a seat or something. (but almost everyone goes for the slot-load model becuase its just so much more convienient.

---Ben

So what would be the cheapest way for me to do this? Better sound would be nice from the factory speakers, but I already have two 10's and an amp so the bass is covered. I am really only interested in adding the nav and changer. I bought the PAC adapter to get RCA outputs from the factory radio, not sure if this is the same you would use for this unit.

Duckhunter--- Does your sub amp have pre-outs to add an extra amp? You could just run a small 4 channel amp off of those. If you like the sound exactly like it is and dont care about changing anything, unfortunatly your only route is to buy a new NON-Bose TNR from JP Customs. It is a little pricey (2000) but you have to remember what you are getting. You are getting a brand new TNR with a full 1 year warentee from JP Customs (so if it goes dead, you dont have to worry about dealing with GM, you just go right to JP Customs), the nav GPS antenna, and the nav DVD. The DVD alone costs 300 from the dealer, and the GPS antenna is around 80 from the dealer. So when you consider it, 2000 is not all that bad. It may be a little more expensive than going the aftermarket amp install route, but its less work. If you went the "complicated" way, it would probably be around 1500 or so.

---Ben

When I bought my truck new I intended to install the LUX Bose TNR after the sale. Now that I'm ready to go, I'm having thoughts to install Pioneer's AVIC-N2. I already have OnStar, XM, and a Bose stereo. I plan to have a back-up camera on both.

Which has the better NAV database? How durable is the Pioneer seeing how it is motorized? Does the AVIC-N2 have the potential for better audio quality that the Delphi? Max volume is not my goal.

I like the clean factory install of the Delphi TNR, but I could use the space made available with the single DIN install of the AVIC-N2.

Any experience with both?

-P.

When I bought my truck new I intended to install the LUX Bose TNR after the sale. Now that I'm ready to go, I'm having thoughts to install Pioneer's AVIC-N2. I already have OnStar, XM, and a Bose stereo. I plan to have a back-up camera on both.

Which has the better NAV database? How durable is the Pioneer seeing how it is motorized? Does the AVIC-N2 have the potential for better audio quality that the Delphi? Max volume is not my goal.

I like the clean factory install of the Delphi TNR, but I could use the space made available with the single DIN install of the AVIC-N2.

Any experience with both?

-P.

before my truck I had an escalade, tried to go the aftermarket stereo system route, and was talked out of it by multiple shops as they said getting in their and fooling with/replacing the stock BOSE stuff was a PITA. SO i never did go with anything aftermarket. But is this pioneer you speak of a nice unit? Is it pretty painless to install? Got any pics of one? Thanks

I personally would not go for the N2. Mostly all navigation systems (OEM and aftermarket) get their nav data from the same independant supplier of map data. The latest version map DVD for the TNR (version 3.0) is probably exactly the same as the N2's database. Also remember, you will have to really modify your shifter to clear the N2, or else they will hit each other. Personally, I have always felt that the fold out nav systems were a little flimsy and i'd be paranoid of reaching across the truck and catching it on my sleeve or soemthing and breaking it. Another thing is that if you get the N2, you will lose all your integration (steering wheel controls, XM, OnStar, retained acc. power, Theftlock security, etc). The aftermarket units are also MUCH more likely to get stolen. (no smart theif would bother stealing an OEM unit because first of all its OEM and second of all, the GM units have Theftlock) As for sound quality, you probably would not be able to tell the difference. Yes, maybe teh N2 has a fancy EQ whereas the TNR has just bass, mid, and treble adjustments, but if you compared them both with flat EQ's, the sound quality would probably be negligible. And the TNR costs less!!! Maybe Im just prejudice against aftermarket stuff...but I feel that the TNR does everything I want it to and it integrates perfectly with everything and looks stock...

---Ben

When you say "painless to install", it depends... If you want to abandon every integrated feature in your truck, then its probably fairly straightforward. There are adapters to make the steering wheel controls and OnStar work with the aftermarket system, but the price of these add up VERY quickly and they are kind of a pain to configure and install. There is NO adapter to allow factory XM to work with an aftermarket head unit. Also, forget getting the Pioneer unit to work well with the Bose speaker system. It would sound really bad on a PREMIUM amp Bose system and it would not work AT ALL with a LUX Bose amp. So you would have to put in a new aftermarket amp... and then of course the Bose speakers wont work with an aftermarket amp (or the amp thats internal to the Pioneer N2 for that matter) because they have really wierd impedances (stupid Bose is so proprietory with all their stuff) and cross overs and they are meant to sound good ONLY when used with "special" Bose "secret" EQ settings...
Of course anything is possible, im dont want to discourage you if you happen to like aftermarket stuff better; some people do. It is just more of a pain to install and costs more with Bose systems and trucks like ours that have a head unit thats so integrated into the rest of the vehicle.

---Ben

Duckhunter--- Does your sub amp have pre-outs to add an extra amp? You could just run a small 4 channel amp off of those. If you like the sound exactly like it is and dont care about changing anything, unfortunatly your only route is to buy a new NON-Bose TNR from JP Customs. It is a little pricey (2000) but you have to remember what you are getting. You are getting a brand new TNR with a full 1 year warentee from JP Customs (so if it goes dead, you dont have to worry about dealing with GM, you just go right to JP Customs), the nav GPS antenna, and the nav DVD. The DVD alone costs 300 from the dealer, and the GPS antenna is around 80 from the dealer. So when you consider it, 2000 is not all that bad. It may be a little more expensive than going the aftermarket amp install route, but its less work. If you went the "complicated" way, it would probably be around 1500 or so.

---Ben

Not sure about my sub. Really, I am pretty happy with the mids and highs as they are stock, it is really only lacking in the bass department, which will be fixed when I add my amp and subs.

So, does JP customs modify the radios or something? Why are they not available anywhere else? Not that I don't like JP customs, I've bought from him before, and he has really good service. Just curious more than anything...

I know all the TNR's are physically identical. They are physically identical because if you look at the wiring pin-outs, there is NO difference in wiring between LUX and NON-LUX units. (for example, the right front speaker pins are in the same position on the connector of the LUX and NON-LUX units) The difference is in the software they are programmed with. There are 3 different software programs. "Non-Bose", (which tells the radio to output to the speakers at high-level), "NON-LUX Bose", (which tells the radio to output at VARIABLE low level), and lastly, "LUX Bose", (which tells the radio to output at fixed low level and to send the volume and all commands to the amp via Class II data). The radios are programmed via GM's "TIS" service. Dealers dont normally mess around with TIS programming, that is why there are just different part numbers for units that are programmed differently. It just makes things easier. JP Customs is a really knowledgeable place so I bet they just TIS-program the "non-Bose TNR kits" for a non-Bose system and it works fine. If you could convince your dealer to TIS program a TNR, you would be all set...

---Ben

Interesting, and very well explained. Thanks!

So I guess there is no non-bose TNR factory application?

So how much cheaper are we talking if we can get a dealership to mess around with the programming? $500? Do all dealerships have the ability to program this type of software?

Correct, there is no vehicle that comes from the factory with Navigation and no Bose.
Yeah, it depends how lucky you get on ebay. I was really lucky and snagged my LUX TNR for 1025 (it was either 1025 or 1125) with the antenna included. (no map DVD included tho) The map dvd I got for another 200 i think. You can get eariler versions of the map DVD (there is Version 1.00, 2.00, 2.50 and 3.00, 3.00 being the newest version) for cheaper, but I just went for the newest version while I was spending the money. You can probably get a Version 1.00 disc for like 100$ or so, maybe less. Im 99% sure all dealers have TIS programming equipment...cause I think they use it to revive dead BCM's and PCM's. For the potential savings, its definetly worth a shot asking. Find a really good tech to talk to though, becuase if you find a bad or grumpy one, they will say it is impossible/wont work, and then point you to the door. Tell them that many people have installed LUX TNR's and converted their non-lux Bose systems to LUX systems, all with success. Then tell them how JP Customs TIS programs TNR's for non-Bose vehicles and they work fine. Good luck, let us know how it turns out...

---Ben

Thanks for your help. This for me will be a mod that is a good ways down the road. I might just end up going with JP customs, as they have really good customer service.