I switched the pumps today 5288 for 5068 and tried recalibrating the optical a mm at a time from the picture moving it toward the advanced position.

I had to start by swapping the heads.There's a bunch of stuff waiting to fall out on both ends and a vice is a must.

I didn't get it to run long and the cranking time was long and now I'm charging my batteries and thinking about where I should have that optical. I moved it at least five times, cranked it 'till it fired watch fuel demand and then bumped it. Once I got it passed equal distant it rough idled like when you've gone too far, so I can tell it's close but not right yet.

so did you get it going??:p:

I drained the batteries and one has a bad cell but tomorrow I'll use the '96 as my jumper and I'll get better cranking speed with a jump and a new battery. The scanner showed low battery status ON even before I started, is that the bad cell possibly.

You did replace the head with the dot on the drive tang of the rotor lined up to the dot on the driveshaft right?

Damn dat dot.........;)

You did replace the head with the dot on the drive tang of the rotor lined up to the dot on the driveshaft right?
Nope! ya think that might be part of it?

Nah, all you have to do is put the pump in sideways and it will work ;)

Geez, QM, I wish you would have called me while you were doing this, you mentioned you were considering it, but I could have helped you with it!

If you don't align the rotor and driveshaft properly, for one, it won't run ;) and for two, there is a danger of damaging something.

Guess I know what I'm doing tomorrow. What do these marks look like? I didn't notice anything but an etched letter on oneside of the driveshaft face.

....etched letter, theres one on the Fuel Solenoid side, should be the same as the letter on the poppet valve, did you take the solenoid off?
The drive tang is quite easily identifiable, there's a drill point on the top of it, and it has to go lined back up to the drill point in the driveshaft.
I'll mark where it is on your pic of the driveshaft....

I got ya' If it had been bright red I would have noticed I swear!

Sure seems like it would not have started at all, with the dots 180deg out............

It could be 90 and 270 out too, I think.

Would not start at either of those settings - 0 for 0, or nothing.

It never ran for more than 10 seconds and died but it was cold and I wasn't so sure about it. I think I'll give it a fresh try before pulling it apart but I don't mind, It get's a little easier to do with repetition.:eek:

I pulled it apart and set it right (it was 90* out) and put it back in, so back getting it started to set the optical.

Good luck (just didn't want to see you post 3 times in a row...lol)

Any progress?

I couldn't find a spot where it would even run.

When you replace the head, and you drain ALL the fuel inside the pump, it will take a little longer to get all the air cleared out and make it even run.
I suggest cracking all 4 drivers side injector lines and crank until you get LOTS of fuel.
Were still working with your '95 PCM right? But with a 5068 pump.
I've done this on mine for a while, optic sensor setting with the 5068 cam ring is was identical to where it was with the 5521, centered on the lock plate, so I would suggest that as a starting point.
Once you get it running, rev it up and if you get white smoke/stumble, you need to advance the optic, if it hunts for idle speed, you need to retard it, fine tune with the scanner to ~5-8 @ warm idle and your good to go.

I cracked 5 lines and cranked till they put out fuel, So I'm getting fuel but it never even tried to start, gave it ether and could only get it to stumble a few times and die with a cloud of white smoke.

I thought I'd pull the optic sensor and see if it would at least run in limp mode.

Should be a LOT easier to start plugged in, even if its outta whack.

The scribe marks and the position of the hole for the lock plate bolt on 30501(5068) Cam Rings are (atleast from my experience) useless as reference points for optic sensor orientation. On mine, the scribe mark is on the wrong side and not even close to the edge of the sensor, and no its not in backwards.

5068 pumps operate with a shorter 'dead space' between Optic Low Res Cam Pulse, and Start of Cam Ramp...

So....To use a 5068 pump in 5521 app, you need to advance the optic sensor A LOT from the 'stock' position (if you remember where that was) to make it work.

I was thinking if it was unplugged it would start in limp and I could plug the optical back in when the engine warmed and was better able to run and try again.

One thing that is sinking in is that you say optical in the middle and then you really have to advance the pump. One of the things I couldn't figure yesterday was why timing was at 8.5*'s at startup when I'd ecpect to see 12-13*'s. I'm thinking that when I push the pump to 12-13* it will start.

Here's the latest. I've moved the pump 'till timing was in the 14* range and fuel demand is at 27mm at startup but it still doesn't start and run but it does put out a large cloud of black smoke. I'd figure I'll have to get fuel demand close enough to where the ecm can manage it but so far all I've seen is 75mm at one point and 1.9mm at another and now 27mm. I'd figure I'm looking for ~ 10-12 mm at startup and what degreees timing I'm not sure what it should crank at.

On edit: 27mm was from the cts unplugged.:eek:

Adjusting the pump housing should not be neccessary. I would put it back to center, and back the optic sensor off a bit by the sounds of it.

Wouldn't start either way. I've tried every position available in the optics range and didn't see the 1.9mm fuel demand change. No DTC's.

Did you take the Fuel Solenoid off the head that you put in???
You mentioned the letter scribed on the rotor and never answered...

I took it back out and made sure the dots were lined up between the head and rotor.

Any chance the plungers fell out and you put them back in? They have to go in a special way for it to work right.

Dissassembling and Reassembling DS pumps in your garage is one thing. Doing it for the first time unassisted is a totally different thing.

I agree. I did notice the 4 tiny cylinders that tried to fall out of the head and that they only fit one way (the big ones on the sides of the drive shaft and the smaller ones fore and aft). I also made sure the magnets and steel rods stayed in position in the rotor.

I'm pulling the 5068 and putting in a 5521. I'm not giving up, just ready to drive again.

Magnets and steel rods.....
Would that be the shoes and ceramic rollers your referring to?

The 4 tiny cylinders are the pumping plungers, and yes, the long ones go perpindicular to the drive tang on the ROTOR, short ones parallel.

Ok ceramic sounds right, they just had a cretain sheen to them.

Did I put the little cylinders back in right? I was going to open the 5521 and look at it, just to verify.

Sounds like you did it right.

If you've got more than one apart, I would use the shoes that exhibit the least amount of wear on the flat side where they contact the pumping plungers. Just rub your finger over the back side and use the 4 that are least worn, no wear would be best.

wear here is a sign that there is wear on the rotor drive tang and where it contacts the driveshaft. This will make the shoes/rollers push the plungers at a slight angle and make them wear faster. When the shoes get a lot of wear, the plunger travel changes, and you will lose fuel delivery quantity.

If the drive tang is worn deep, and the plungers are 'shiny' across the whole face on the outside then I wouldnt use that head. and I would take a close look at the driveshaft too, you may not want to use that either.

I would also remove the two 3/16" set screws in the head, and remove the accumulator piston/spring/guide and look for a broken spring, which will cause lots of problems. use a good one from another head if you can, the heavy spring goes back in closer to the vent wire hole, the lighter spring goes on the other side.

How important is that round sprung piece that goes between the head and rotor? I saw it later and I can't remember which pump I left it out of.

ummm, it needs to be there ;)
keeps the cam ring in place, other wise it could walk back and the optic sensor will eat your data disk, and the advance piston will roll with it, putting your cam stud at an angle and your advance may hang.

I'm pulling it again today, I'll get one last chance to look at it and then I'm trying the 5521, with the same head. I think I'd rather somebody like yourself calibrate a known working pump and then I'll try it again. Too much guess work like this.

A wise decision ;)
Like I said, my dad owns a shop in Abilene. Just incase you end up with a pile of DS parts and no working ones, he can put the pieces together for you, and test it before you put it on your truck. He also has a Tech2.
If your interested, I'm sure he wouldnt mind if you watched them build/test it.

I'd take pictures, too, and share the experience.

The test stand setup is pretty impressive, he's a digital PDFM monitor that will shows your fuel delivery and balance on a computer monitor, its pretty neat.

Very cool thread, even though i don't understand most of it, but others will benifit from the info in here.:thumb:

Here's a good picture of one scattered....I can't find any of the test bench.
Just so you know, this isn't my work, I organize my parts very differently, we (I) rebuild so many of these, I have to keep to a specific sequence and arrangement to keep up.

Reading all this has given me a head ake even is you got the pump back together right it would still run like crap because the calibration of the ecm is different in the two pumps.

....Thanks for the tip, but I think we've already established that.
The whole point of this is to get a HD 5068 pump to work in a 5067 series truck, which, I did myself for several months.

A related question for for you guys. Swapping out the cam ring of a 5068 IP into a later model IP is the "more power" route on the DS4 right. So whats the deal with a 5067 cam ring? Is this the same as the 5068 ring?

5067 (30909) was superceded when the 5288 pump was released, 5459, 5521, 5942 all use the 32096. 30909 is identical to the 32096, except the hole for the optic sensor bolt is blind in the 32096. 30501 (5068) is the only different one.

She running again but with a 5521 I fixed with sense not science.

Lol

It's running flawlessly except I swear I hear a knock I never heard before on the passengerside and it's there at idle but I don't notice at higher rpms.

Here's a picture or my shoes and rollers and the 5521's head.

What was wrong with the 5521? The knock is your vacum pump(Ha Ha)

I tightened the fuel solenoid cap to take a minuite amount of slack out of it and then put it on. I figure the knocking could be a lifter or injector and This '94 599 is about ready to have the compression lowered and a cam put in. I'll get a good look at the internals then.

I tightened the fuel solenoid cap to take a minuite amount of slack out of it and then put it on.

Slack in the FSOL?? what did you tighten???

The cap. I tightened it a little.

So far, all's well. Threw a DTC 78 going 85 mph @ ? boost (wasn't looking) but other than that, nothing other than a soft knocking at idle that could be the IP for all I know. It can only be heard in cab at idle.

Tightened the Torx10 or the ¼" terminal screws?

Oh, and about your head swap earlier, the three screws you pulled out of the head, when you put them back in, you did put the bottom O-rings back on them right?

The torx and yes, I put the o-rings back.

I was just thinking about that today at the shop, if you forgot those you would never get it started.