http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/big_jon00/my_photos (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/big_jon00/my_photos)

I thnk I may the first person to brake an input shaft.. ATS has never heard of a input going, they told me a guy lost an output with about a 4,000rpm neutral drop but never an input.....

I managed to brake an input shaft when taking off from a stop sign. The TTS was set on the highest setting and it was a little slick and I got on it a little, not powerbraking or launching just stepped on it and the tires broke loose spun then shifted hard into second and it was all over I remember looking down just in time to see the RPMS peg the 5,000 mark on the tack and I wasn't moving.
My tranny had the ATS Tripple lock package last august, and co-piolot, with the C2 transgo spring cage and apply pistion mods done. I have the ATS tripple loc converter, and the torque converter valve... what I concidered to be a pretty strong tranny.... you can see in the pics from the above link, the c1 were in pretty good shape, the c2's were toasted bad, and the c3 have chunks of friction matterial missing, and cracked. It has about 10,000 miles on sense ATS went throught the tranny.
I called in to ATS this morning and talked to Mike and they are trying to get the input shaft and clutchs out yet today and I asked to have them overnighted I know it will be expensive but I need to get this back together. ATS seemed pretty good about the price they gave me.. They said that the new clutchs were re-designed or slightly different so hopefully better luck with the new ones..
I did order the C4's and C5's as well I figured from the looks of the C3's that it would be a good idea to switch those out as well... never been in that end of the tranny know it's a little tricky but I should be able to figure it out..
This truck has never been launched in 4wd, or hooked to a sled with the ATS upgrades so it hasn't really been abused except for about a half dozen powerbrakes or so but the tires are a little too pricy to be doing that...

OUCH!!!! I would make sure everything gets cleaned out well. Get a can of the cooler flush and do that too. Howd the converter fare?

You are not the first. The boys in NC beat you to it......

If it is any consolation theirs sheared off in the exact same manner. Might be a casting flaw that is causing it?

Even so, that is only the second that I know of.

Wow, I feel for ya. Are the clutches O.E.M. style or are they ATS?

Thanks,
Rob

Converter seems to be fine, when I pulled it out of the tranny and tipped it upsidedown on the five gallon bucket to let it drain it piece of the shaft dropped right out. Nothing appears to mangled or out of alignment at all in the converter it's self. The pump and bearings all seem to be in great shape... found just a few metal fillings in the bottem of the bellhousing a very minimal and very little metal on the magnets on the drain plug and filter. Appears to be a nice straight brake, even though with the quick rpm jump I am it sure smoothed of any of the jagged edges.
I guess I won't have my part untill Thursday now.. just got off the phone with ATS, and I sent them the pics via email..

Clutchs are/were ATS from the tripple lock package they sell, it wasn't too bad. I started last night at 9 and well I had it out and the front half ripped down by 12:45. And on the phone with ATS when they opened.

Thats not the first set of ATS clutches I have seen delaminate like that......

I wonder how many of these input shafts we will see?

Thats not the first set of ATS clutches I have seen delaminate like that......

I recall that subject coming up awhile ago

I wonder how many of these input shafts we will see?

Probably was stressed previously and finally let go,that would be my guess in the way you describe it finally broke.

Jon

Kit or Tranny from ATS?

Wow, that delamination of the C3's does not give me a good feeling. I'd like to hear more about this as it is the first I've heard of it..
The question I have is this;
Is the delamination a result of the failure of the input shaft and sudden unloading of the drivetrain? Is it possible they were delaminating before the failure? Is ATS aware of this and is it a production problem? If chunks of delaminated C3's cause havoc and trans failure, will ATS stand by the customer? Can it be proven as a primary cause of trans failure, or will a failed trans with delaminated C3's be labled as "Owner abuse" and not within the language of the warranty coverage..
:confuzeld

Concerned ATS owner..

Well Jon you make number three that I know of. Make sure and check the area where the shaft comes through the pump. I took a chunk out of the side when I broke one. I have also seen rub marks from the input shaft flexing when heavy right foot pressure has been applied to the go pedal too much

I believe the delaminated clutches caused the shaft to snap. Usually parts will snap in a trans due to a nuetral condition; by that I mean the Ally went into a big slip nuetral condition under power and when the clutches locked under huge torque, something was going to give big time. I think if the rpm's were high enough and the Ally in second gear, the converter clutch came on and when the Ally caught with a locked converter clutch the input shaft was under a terrible load. I could be wrong.

Wow! The only time I've seen frictions so badly delaminated was from a trans that had water in it. I seem to remember reading somewhere that ATS produces there own C1, C3 & 4 frictions--you should send them to them so they can determine why they failed. After only 10,000 miles on an ATS rebuild (warranty issue?), judging from the input shaft and condition of the clutches I'd say that you've probably power braked it probably a few more times then stated. LOL!

Well, guys I don't know I sent the pics to Mike at ATS and I will call in there tomorrow and see what they have to say about them.. In all honesty the truck has only been powerbraked a hand full of times. Those Nitto tires 325x60x18 are not cheap..... ($220+ each when I bought them) Granted there is traction issues on WOT.
The truck is parked all winter from Novemeber- end of March, after having ATS install the tripple lock while on vacation in Denver, I drove straight home babying it the whole way "stock" this was before the Extreme. When I got home I ordered the Co-Pilot and installed it myself.
Like I said this tranny hasn't seen really too much abuse, of the 39,000 miles on the truck it has been chipped since 10,000 miles and has only ever been in one truck pull, and never been on the strip, just drivin on the street sometime hard, but for the most of the time pretty easy.
The most I tow is a 5,000lbs skidloader and trailer, maybe a few times a year and 3-6 fourwheelers... on snowmobile trailer about 10 times a year...
I was running the same basic set up before I had the ATS work done, JK's 200+ VA stacked with the Xcellerator, "aprox 470rwhp, and 950ft lbs w/o a lift pump" with just the transgo, ttc valve, and a off brand convert that gave up on vactation "hense the ATS tripple loc" I saw the clutch they pulled out after 20,000 miles at ATS "OME" and the C1's, C2's were just burnished a little nothing even close to C2's in the pic... let alone the C3's and I know that set up was driven much harder then this one has been, with out near the carnage...

I believe the delaminated clutches caused the shaft to snap. Usually parts will snap in a trans due to a nuetral condition; by that I mean the Ally went into a big slip nuetral condition under power and when the clutches locked under huge torque, something was going to give big time. I think if the rpm's were high enough and the Ally in second gear, the converter clutch came on and when the Ally caught with a locked converter clutch the input shaft was under a terrible load. I could be wrong.

That actually makes a lot of sense, a sudden load then rather than a constant load.

Very interesting where that shaft snapped, but the pictures are poor.

Is it undercut in that area for relief or circlip? If so, that was an engineering no-no.

It would interesting to see a stock unit in that area. Perhaps some blending will make it stronger.

Now, I'm not a long-eared fracture mechanics whiz, but I did some checking, and from the appearance of the break, it looks like a ductile fracture, if the load was primarily torsional (which I think is a safe assumption).

So, you simply twisted it off. As McRat said, any kind of sharp corner or undercut or whatnot would be a stress concentrator.

Ductile fracture can be initiated on a flaw, or lacking a flaw, one is generated by microscopic plastic flow in a particular location. As the crack grows, the stress is increased on the remaining material until it's ripped apart completely.

Certainly shock-loading the system would increase the chance of any type of fracture.