http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/06/spied-gm-2011-heavy-duty-lml-duramax-diesel-engine.html


looks like the dmax is not getting a displacement bump for 2010. Also saying HP up to 390 an tq at 700

390 HP and 700#fttq

Seems they are copying Ford

But the LML won’t use urea alone to lower NOx. Our sources say the LML will also add a second exhaust gas recirculation cooler to the engine, similar to the dual-EGR cooler setup that the 6.4-liter Power Stroke diesel uses.

Seems they are copying Ford
And we all know how well that is working out on the Blue Oval trucks dont we??

And we all know how well that is working out on the Blue Oval trucks dont we??

I meant the concept..:rolleyes:

And we all know how well that is working out on the Blue Oval trucks dont we??


With the scorpion motor it's 390HP and 720TQ and it's not a navistar motor at that so it might be good.

Seems they are copying Ford


Or ford copying the duramax's aluminum heads for their new scorpion motor.

who cares about who copies who, if the engine sells and runs great thats whats important.

Seems they are copying Ford


rather minimal compared to Ford copying GM's 4.5 Duramax reverse flow heads with the exhaust ports in the valley of the V. :D

I still want a 4.5 Suburban.

I had my heart set on a Silverado RC/SWB 4/6slam with a 4.5........ cool little ride with great power that would get twenty something MPG....... I guess not :(

I wouldnt mind if chevy took some ideas from ford. I know that new 6.4 is holding up great as well as the trannys at least till 700hp and they take very minimal mods to run 11's. I cant wait to see what the new scorpion motor will do since its supposed to have the best of the 6.4 with some improvements like better fuel economy.

So how much of your hard earned tax money went into designing and building this thing just so you can pay for it again when you roll it off the show room floor?

Sorry... couldnt help myself...

i dont like the nose of the truck

they say this may have a 8 speed tranny...im lovin it

I had my heart set on a Silverado RC/SWB 4/6slam with a 4.5........ cool little ride with great power that would get twenty something MPG....... I guess not :(

The oil companies wont allow it.

rather minimal compared to Ford copying GM's 4.5 Duramax reverse flow heads with the exhaust ports in the valley of the V. :D

And how GM copied BMW on the very same thing, who actually has it in production on a car you can buy off the lot right now?

I wouldnt mind if chevy took some ideas from ford. I know that new 6.4 is holding up great as well as the trannys at least till 700hp and they take very minimal mods to run 11's. I cant wait to see what the new scorpion motor will do since its supposed to have the best of the 6.4 with some improvements like better fuel economy.

Do a search on Google about these new motors (6.4) and you will change your mind very quickly.

they say this may have a 8 speed tranny...im lovin it
Nope still a 6 as it was too expensive to build an 8 speed. Of course thats all hearsay untill they are built.

they say this may have a 8 speed tranny...im lovin it
I heard it was an 11 speed with six reverse gears and two parks! :eek:

Seems they are copying Ford

go look up info on the new 6.7 ford scorpion. Its gonna have ALUMINUM reverse flow heads a la 4.5 dmax.

SEEMS THEY ARE COPYING GM! :D :p:

looks like the dmax is not getting a displacement bump for 2010

I told everyone that a long time ago but no one listened to me "because Diesel Power said it was gonna be a 6.9 liter" :D

Oh, and to all the guy who started that ridiculous thread "my bet is GM will stop making all diesels in 2010", :p:

Here is my feeling: This is very promising/good to hear that the LML is more or less a "freshen up" of the 01-2010 dmax rather than a complete redesign...Means we could very likely be able to use some of the upgraded parts on 2001-2010 engine builds...like the redesigned pistons for example... :cool:

also, note the urea refill tube (the blue thing/cap that at first glance it might look like a new style tranny fluid dipstick)

ben

I heard it was an 11 speed with six reverse gears and two parks! :eek:

That's the one with 3 neutrals right?;):p:

The part in the read I find interesting.

The same aluminum heads used in the LMM and LBZ Duramax engine are said to continue unchanged, though the pistons are expected to feature a new oil-flow design to improve temperature control.

the frame is different too. ;)

And you only have to replace the injectors every 75k now.

And you only have to replace the injectors every 75k now.

They fixed that problem after the LB7.:rolleyes:

That's the one with 3 neutrals right?;):p:
Now you're being silly.:rolleyes:

So how far can one of these trucks go on a tank of urea? Where is going to be a good place to get it and whats that going to cost?

Rant: I love how the EPA keeps adding more and more emissions BS to these trucks which in turn kills the mileage and makes the trucks more expensive.

Front of the truck is kinda ugly looking...Cross between a 01-02 and a 08...

So how far can one of these trucks go on a tank of urea? Where is going to be a good place to get it and whats that going to cost?

Rant: I love how the EPA keeps adding more and more emissions BS to these trucks which in turn kills the mileage and makes the trucks more expensive.

I think they are saying it will have to be refilled roughly every oil change.

And no, despite what all those paranoid idiots out there say, the truck WILL NOT STOP should you accidentally run out of the urea...it will probably just enter some sort of reduced power mode.

ben

go look up info on the new 6.7 ford scorpion. Its gonna have ALUMINUM reverse flow heads a la 4.5 dmax.

SEEMS THEY ARE COPYING GM! :D :p:


An auto company that isn't copying others is unheard of.

Almost a year ago, in the first spy photos of 2011 Chevy Silverado (http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/03/spied-2011-chevrolet-silverado-3500.html)GMC Sierra heavy-duty (http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/2010/gm/sierrahd/spied/2010-gmc-sierra-2500-spied.html) mules, we noted that the inlet in the middle of the front bumper that feeds air to the truck's transmission oil cooler was about a third larger than the current inlet. We wondered what changes GM might be planning for the Silverado’s Allison transmission and EGR system. and Our sources say the LML will continue to use a six-speed automatic. Some work had been done experimenting with an eight-speed automatic for improved fuel economy and towing performance, but it’s said it was determined to be too costly. The large inlet is likely due to increased use of EGR and what’s said to be major changes to the Allison gearbox’s torque converter.:rant:

Do the journalists not notice that maybe the truck needs the same if not more amount of cooling capacity as the current generation of trucks. Look at the standard grille opening for the current LMM Chevy and GMC- they are huge. Now look at the half ton trucks and the new LML- the opening is alot smaller. Hmm- if we make the grille opening smaller but still need the same amount of cooling airflow- where do we get air from?? I know- lets make the opening in the bumper larger to get the air we need...

Its not rocket science people- the net change in total frontal opening is not far from zero.

Secondly- what does the inlet size have to do with EGR? EGR is supposed to help cool the combustion temps not raise them and I have a feeling that the EGR system is nowhere near the grille openings. An upgraded Allison torque converter may require more cooling but as I said above- is there really any more cooling than there already was?

I really hate how journalists just spew things out and hardly use common sense.

end :rant:

I'll just stick to my LBZ- barely any emissions FTW.

They fixed that problem after the LB7.:rolleyes:

Do Tell........

390 HP and 700#fttq
My lmm is tuned to 410 HP and 750 lbs torque, I bet that 5th generation LML is just a more tuned LMM with basicly the same internal parts:rolleyes::rolleyes:

My lmm is tuned to 410 HP and 750 lbs torque, I bet that 5th generation LML is just a more tuned LMM with basicly the same internal parts:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Is that dynoed?

If it is a 6.6, it will likely have the same internals as the current setup. But, it might be stronger. Stronger pistons are likely, but beyond that I wouldnt hold my breath.

I bet that 5th generation LML is just a more tuned LMM with basicly the same internal parts:rolleyes::rolleyes:

wanna bet? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

wanna bet? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Just out a curiousity Ben but do you have an inside source on this stuff?

Like I said yesterday:

let the bench racing begin!

wanna bet? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hope your right. As far as pistons go, you think they be more reliable than the LBZ/LMM pistons?!?

better oil cooling. :cool:

With increased emissions comes increased EGT's, combustion temperatures....which in turn increases oil temps....which is one of the main factors leading to cracked pistons (in my own opinion). If they increase the power anymore over the LMM, towing at max GCWR is going to put EGT's into the point of where, if you were really beating on it (stock LML @ 390hp with no gauges, like 90% of the owners of these trucks do), it might even be possible to crack a piston without a tune (if they carried over the LBZ/LMM piston design...

see what Im getting at? :)

ben

better oil cooling. :cool:

With increased emissions comes increased EGT's, combustion temperatures....which in turn increases oil temps....which is one of the main factors leading to cracked pistons (in my own opinion). If they increase the power anymore over the LMM, towing at max GCWR is going to put EGT's into the point of where, if you were really beating on it (stock LML @ 390hp with no gauges, like 90% of the owners of these trucks do), it might even be possible to crack a piston without a tune (if they carried over the LBZ/LMM piston design...

see what Im getting at? :)

ben

Oh yes! Time to wait and see.

:cool:

Im curious on mileage.

Do a search on Google about these new motors (6.4) and you will change your mind very quickly.


Nope still a 6 as it was too expensive to build an 8 speed. Of course thats all hearsay untill they are built.


X2, I know like 5 or 6 guys who hate them, like really hate them, they've been Furd guys too. My brother-in-law is loving his new 6.4 Pilestroke, been at the stealer for a month waitin for motor #2 to be dropped in after only 13,000 miles on his F-550. JUNK!

I highly doubt that the grill in the pics is the one that GM will use. It's probably a cover up for the production grills...these are just test mules folks so don't jump the gun on the designs just yet.

The oil companies wont allow it.

Right...:rolleyes:
I knew the oil companies were behind the failure of GM to produce the 4.5:cool:

I highly doubt that the grill in the pics is the one that GM will use. It's probably a cover up for the production grills...these are just test mules folks so don't jump the gun on the designs just yet.

Ya that ain't the grille, I wouldn't doubt if it looked almost the same.

I think they are saying it will have to be refilled roughly every oil change.

And no, despite what all those paranoid idiots out there say, the truck WILL NOT STOP should you accidentally run out of the urea...it will probably just enter some sort of reduced power mode.

ben

If its the same setup as the new BMW's you have 50 starts after you run out of urea before the computer will not allow the engine to turn over.

Is that dynoed?

If it is a 6.6, it will likely have the same internals as the current setup. But, it might be stronger. Stronger pistons are likely, but beyond that I wouldnt hold my breath.
10-4 DRIVER I got no reason to B/S you:D

wanna bet? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
yeah:D:D

better oil cooling. :cool:

With increased emissions comes increased EGT's, combustion temperatures....which in turn increases oil temps....which is one of the main factors leading to cracked pistons (in my own opinion). If they increase the power anymore over the LMM, towing at max GCWR is going to put EGT's into the point of where, if you were really beating on it (stock LML @ 390hp with no gauges, like 90% of the owners of these trucks do), it might even be possible to crack a piston without a tune (if they carried over the LBZ/LMM piston design...

see what Im getting at? :)

ben
Do you think GM will finally put a boost & egt gauges in the new model trucks like the the FERDS have in their current trucks.

If its the same setup as the new BMW's you have 50 starts after you run out of urea before the computer will not allow the engine to turn over.That's a dam, shame are you serious?:eek:

I told everyone that a long time ago but no one listened to me "because Diesel Power said it was gonna be a 6.9 liter" :D

Oh, and to all the guy who started that ridiculous thread "my bet is GM will stop making all diesels in 2010", :p:

Here is my feeling: This is very promising/good to hear that the LML is more or less a "freshen up" of the 01-2010 dmax rather than a complete redesign...Means we could very likely be able to use some of the upgraded parts on 2001-2010 engine builds...like the redesigned pistons for example... :cool:

also, note the urea refill tube (the blue thing/cap that at first glance it might look like a new style tranny fluid dipstick)

ben
Hey ben would'nt be nice if GM to build a 427 7.1L DMAX:D:D

Do you think GM will finally put a boost & egt gauges in the new model trucks like the the FERDS have in their current trucks.

I doubt it since they are trying to cut cost as it is.

The new fords have boost & egt gauges?

My .02 is that IF the GCWR goes up, they are either going to have to cool the crap out of everything, or start tuning the engine with an EGT sensor. So say you are pulling a 14 mile 6% grade with 25,000 pounds... the egts with an OAT of 100 degrees is going to be 1600+. How else are they going to keep egt's down and still keep the tuning crisp. I personally don't see it. I say EGT based tuning is going to be crucial along with a large factory motor oil cooler. IDK just my .02.

The new fords have boost & egt gauges?



Fords come with a boost gauge they do not have a pyro stock and probibly never will.

Fords come with a boost gauge they do not have a pyro stock and probibly never will.
That was my fault LS1POWERED i meant to just say a boost gauge thanks for the correction:thumb::thumb:I dont know what the hell i was thinking about:duh:

So is this new duramax gona have a DPF or no?

the urea injection system goes just after he turbo pedestal? correct?

If they are using this type of system to lower emissions then why dont they just use a water/meth injection system and tell every body that it is something else. now you hae a cleaning agent for all the crap the EGR is putting into the intake and cylinders and it will also lower EGT's and help with emissions to boot.
















Oh wait, that makes too much sense.

with new oiling to pistons, sounds like squirters are gone, might be stronger block. oil flowing around piston tops will add weight and should call for lower engine rpm. would expect larger oil cooler to reduce piston temps in conjunction with injection control, think the piezo injectors are supposed to have pressure transducer to lower peak cylinder pressure on combustion to reduce NOx(similar to 4.5 control ecm). 1st engine i can remember with top exit exhaust was ford coyote(indy) engine.

The block is different for sure. Hopefully it's stonger... atleast that's the idea I think. I figured the oil squirters would be improved or maybe increase to 2. IDK I would think GM would put some kind of cylinder pressure tester on the engine to try to protect themselves in warranty disputes.

The block is different for sure.

Oh, really is it? You know that? For sure?


Hopefully it's stonger...

Yeah, I hope its stronger too, it needs to be, everyone is breaking the current blocks right and left. :rolleyes:

I would think GM would put some kind of cylinder pressure tester on the engine to try to protect themselves in warranty disputes.

explain to me why cylinder pressure sensors are needed for a warranty disputes.........the ECM already tells you everything you need to know for warranty related stuff.





Just a general note. Until the engine comes out, everything posted in this entire section by anyone is assumption based ONLY...FWIW...

ben

Do you think GM will finally put a boost & egt gauges in the new model trucks like the the FERDS have in their current trucks.

why do these trucks need factory boost and EGT gauges? THEY DONT. First of all, 99% of drivers wouldnt know/care what they are, of give a crap what info they are displaying. They are nothing more than a gee-whiz gadget.

The ford cluster is retarded, it doesnt even have an oil pressure gauge, but wait, its ok though, cause it has a sweet boost gauge in place of an oil press gauge!!!

The boost is controlled electronically, and the ECM knows the boost. If the boost gets too high, the ECM sees that and corrects it to a safe level. There is no reason to have a boost gauge on any stock turbo'd truck. Even if you are using a canned tuner, IMO you dont even need a boost gauge...the boost control tables are all pre-written and the ECM is gonna do what it wants to get the boost to the proper desired level as spec'd by the tune. An EGT gauge, on the other hand, is mandatory if you are running a bigger tune (but it is NOT NEEDED ON A STOCK TRUCK)

The only reason to have a boost gague is if you have a bigger than stock turbo, or if you are doing your own tuning with efilive.

just my opinion.

ben

""An EGT gauge, on the other hand, is mandatory if you are running a bigger tune (but it is NOT NEEDED ON A STOCK TRUCK""

I disagree, EGT is a very handy tool when towing a heavy trailer like mine, long grade will heat it up in a hurry. Its just like a temp, or pressure guage, 50% of the drivers never look and the rest of us do. JM2C

""An EGT gauge, on the other hand, is mandatory if you are running a bigger tune (but it is NOT NEEDED ON A STOCK TRUCK""

I disagree, EGT is a very handy tool when towing a heavy trailer like mine, long grade will heat it up in a hurry. Its just like a temp, or pressure guage, 50% of the drivers never look and the rest of us do. JM2C

Marty I would be surprised if even 10% of drivers looked at their gauges when towing. :(

like I said, the new fords dont even have an oil pressure gauge.

The truck mfg's tune them and design them to never have EGT issues under any normal operating conditions towing loads at or under rated GCWR. Because they know that hardly anyone looks at gauges, and like I said if there was a factory EGT gauge, no one would use it.

everyone needs forget the assumption that everyone who walks into the dealer and buys a diesel pickup is like yourselfs and people on this forum in that they know the specifics in operating a diesel...and that they actually know or even care about things like boost and EGT, additive, etc.. I know thats such an amazingly hard concept to comprehend. But we as "diesel enthusiasts" represent such a pathetically small portion of GM's duramax customer database. For every one dmax/psd/ctd you see on the road with diesel stickers/exhaust/gauges/etc, theres 300 others that are just running around normally, and the drivers know nothing other than "fill it up with the green handle". And guess what, THEYRE ALL STILL RUNNING FINE. ;)

I hear ya, Ben. But hey if I spend 50K i'd like to get an idea if i'm hurting it LOL, and whats stock? all mine are "stock", just had minor upgrades to improve the orginal, kinda like remodeling the house.

Oh, really is it? You know that? For sure?




Yeah, I hope its stronger too, it needs to be, everyone is breaking the current blocks right and left. :rolleyes:



explain to me why cylinder pressure sensors are needed for a warranty disputes.........the ECM already tells you everything you need to know for warranty related stuff.





Just a general note. Until the engine comes out, everything posted in this entire section by anyone is assumption based ONLY...FWIW...

ben


The new 6.6 block I seen was different from the current one, hence why I was so damn sure that the duramax was getting a displacement bump.;)

They were talking about it on the 4.5, having cylinder pressure monitoring devises that acted with the ECM to have another more expensive thing for the aftermarket to try and bypass. Hense make it harder to do what we are doing. All I know is what I hear and see.

well you never know...GM could be gettin smarter...now im just thinkin outside of the box on this one so please dont tear me up on it lol but lets say GM did put a EGT gauge on these trucks(now like everyone else is saying, alot of people dont pay attention to their gauges). then GM programs the ECM to store EGT readings so when the driver doesnt shut the truck off under a safe temperature and hurts the charger, their warrenty will be voided...but again thats my 2 cents on things...

Why doesn't GM just put in an EGT probe that will set a threshold temperature then just have the engine defuel or whatever steps necessary to not exceed that set temp.

I'd like to see if the Piezo Injectors will be retrofittable (with a proper controller) to all 01-08 trucks, if not LBZ and LLM trucks. Maybe better mileage can be achieved with the upgrade.

-P.

Why doesn't GM just put in an EGT probe that will set a threshold temperature then just have the engine defuel or whatever steps necessary to not exceed that set temp.

Seems like a simple solution!

I'd like to see if the Piezo Injectors will be retrofittable (with a proper controller) to all 01-08 trucks, if not LBZ and LLM trucks. Maybe better mileage can be achieved with the upgrade.

-P.

piezos haven't helped the 6.4PSD

I'll stick with my lbz, my brother just bought a lmm too

I'd like to see if the Piezo Injectors will be retrofittable (with a proper controller) to all 01-08 trucks, if not LBZ and LLM trucks. Maybe better mileage can be achieved with the upgrade.

-P.

Dude I must say what is up with that? $400/injector your going to pitch out on a hunch it gives you better mileage. $3200 buys a lot of diesel.

I agree with Ben I don't think that EGT is required on a stock truck. I also believe our paranoia about high EGT's is just that-- paranoia. Huge improvments have been made in turbo designs so as not to be worrying about it at all on a stock tune.

I wonder if they took an idea from the 4.5 design team and added an injector in the exhaust for regen instead of squirting raw fuel into the cylinders?

When is this new dmax coming out? Will they still offer 100k mile warranty?

The new 6.6 block I seen was different from the current one, hence why I was so damn sure that the duramax was getting a displacement bump.;).

where did you see it? I guess you are a lot more in the know than everyone else here.

I wonder if they took an idea from the 4.5 design team and added an injector in the exhaust for regen instead of squirting raw fuel into the cylinders?

No idea, ask Duramaximizer, he seems to be up on the whole design of the new engine.

ben

Dude I must say what is up with that? $400/injector your going to pitch out on a hunch it gives you better mileage. $3200 buys a lot of diesel.

I agree with Ben I don't think that EGT is required on a stock truck. I also believe our paranoia about high EGT's is just that-- paranoia. Huge improvments have been made in turbo designs so as not to be worrying about it at all on a stock tune.


When I am lookin at my EGT's I am not thinkin bout my turbo I am crossin my fingers hoping not to crack a piston.:eek:

Why do we need a redesigned block. It has been a very long time since I have even heard of a D-Max Windowing a block. Maybe I never have? The block is not our problem. We need redesigned pistons and rods. And in my mind we will be set.

i agree stronmger rods for sure 500 hp ant nouthin anymore

This engine has a much different EGR system accually a 2 stage system, and the turbo has like 5 sensors, pistons and ring package is different too

This engine has a much different EGR system accually a 2 stage system, and the turbo has like 5 sensors, pistons and ring package is different too
wow:eek: sounds like more B/S to go wrong

Everyone said that about VVT's on the LLY's too.

theres gonna be so much emmissons BS that the air is gonna come out cleaner than it went in. and i bet programming and DPF deleting will be made EXTREMELY hard.

theres gonna be so much emmissons BS that the air is gonna come out cleaner than it went in. and i bet programming and DPF deleting will be made EXTREMELY hard.

GM doesnt really like changing everything unless they absolutely need to...if I had to guess, it will have the same ECM and very similar programming as the LMM...

where did you see it? I guess you are a lot more in the know than everyone else here.


As far as I know it's a conventional head design, but the 6.6 block I seen was at defiance, ohio along with a warehouse fully of 4.5 blocks.

The 6.6 blocks I seen had more of a curve at the base of the block for more throw clearance on the crank. Hence why I thought the displacement bump.

It never ceases to amaze me that people think they need a pyrometer in a stock truck. It would be informative if there is something wrong or if you were planning to increase the power on the truck, but as far as that goes I would be just as worried about cylinder pressure as EGTs most of the time. Do you want the cylinder heads to be tapped and a pressure transducer put in there too? What pressure do you consider bad? How about monitoring your turbine inlet and outlet pressures to make sure you don't blow a seal? Turbo speed, anyone ever care about spinning your turbo too fast? People care so much about boost, but boost is a poor indicator in varying ambient pressures and temperatures which is why any new engine management is mass based. If I was tuning it could be interesting to see boost I guess, but I care more about mass flow than pressure. The ECM can read all of these things and be easily connected to a laptop if there is a problem, and sometimes another gauge is just another thing for someone to come in and complain about when they see a little spike in the information it is giving. My point is, why as an engineer would you ever want to show that information? Trust me, when a manufacturer puts out a system they have likely thought about and tested nearly every scenario for the engine while monitoring HUNDREDS of things, not because they care so much about you, but because they care about their warranty costs.

Why doesn't GM just put in an EGT probe that will set a threshold temperature then just have the engine defuel or whatever steps necessary to not exceed that set temp.

Not that I think anyone cares, but the Ford 6.4 Diesel does this.

I havent read through all the posts but I have a question

If a LMM can only take roughly 90rwhp over stock before needing a tranny upgrade does that mean the LML can only take about 50rwhp over stock since its reciving a bump?

Or is the tranny being built up too?

Generally speaking, the torque rating of the Allison 1000 is right now exactly 660 ft-lb. So, I think it would be safe to assume that if they are making more torque, either the 1000 is getting beefed up, or they are using another model of the transmission.

The Allison will get some sort of upgrade to help it live at higher power levels. They have to have some sort of threshold for safety purposes. They won't release a tranny motor combo where the Motor is makeing more TQ than the tranny can handle. It would be a big hit the warranty department.

why not

dodge did it for years.

2010 Duramax's at the dealers in the next month or so will be LML, urea, etc. 390hp/700ft-lb?

So where are new owners suppose to get Urea? Has anyone seen it at gas stations or stores? Can't say I have around here.

2010 Duramax's at the dealers in the next month or so will be LML, urea, etc. 390hp/700ft-lb?

No....the motors will come with the new refreshed front grille 2011 models in early 2010.

They will use the LMM motors in the 2009-2010 models until they run out of them.

The new emission law takes effect 1-1-2010, so I'm not sure how that works with building a truck after 1-1-2010 with whether or not it absolutely has to have the new LML engine.

At least this is what has been talked about on this site in other topics.

No....the motors will come with the new refreshed front grille 2011 models in early 2010.

They will use the LMM motors in the 2009-2010 models until they run out of them.

The new emission law takes effect 1-1-2010, so I'm not sure how that works with building a truck after 1-1-2010 with whether or not it absolutely has to have the new LML engine.

At least this is what has been talked about on this site in other topics.

You are correct, early model year 2010's will still have the LMM motor in it.

From the other thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by blizzardplowman
I was told today " 09 will be a long build, prob through September, 2010 will be built until January 2010, or a tad longer if they have engines, than they will have a 30-60 day plant switch over to bulid 2011's. The 2011 truck will have the new emissions and the 6000K front axle, a stiffer frame and some minor other mods including sheet metal." I'm in the same boat, get a 09, wait for a 10 or wait and order an 11.

Got a update Today, the 2010 bulid out date on the Dmax looks to be January 31, based on orders and production of the motor. Remember they can bulid out trucks they have motors for even after the emmisions change. 2011 model Plant switch over was to be complete by April but now looks to be pushed out until mid June.

why not

dodge did it for years.


We aren't Dodge for 1 thing. And the other is there was a time when diesel was just begining to mainstream, and all of the Big 3 used transmissions from there gassers. It took them some time to figure out and develope a solution they needed bigger stouter trans. Allison also has a very big reputation to live up too. It's just like twhen the LBZ came out. The LBZ exceeded the Alli reliability point and so Alli made a new stronger 6 speed.

So im getting confused when can we expect to see the LML hit showroom floors?

I would expect them to not show up till first of the year. My guess they do the same thing as when new 07 emissions came out. Make the change at the first of the year. Just a guess. They can sell more LMM over LML since there will be a price increase on the new engine.

Brian

It seems unlikely to me that they would put the new LML in the current frame. If the 2011 model switchover at the plants is not done until mid-June, then late June would be the earliest you would see the new LML in the 2011 model frame.

If, however, they DO put the new LML in the current frame, and call it a 2010.5 model, then Feb.

Just my guess.

Moose

What does the frame have to do with anything? The GMT 800/900 Frame has seen 4 different varients of Duramax in it.

Well, I was thinking more than just the new frame, I guess. The front clip is being changed to accomodate (at least partially) engine changes (bigger oil cooler, or something, due to 2nd EGR?). I get the impression that the new LML won't "fit" properly into the current version of truck. And I don't mean "fit" as in size, but rather with regards to the changes required.

Hoping somebody with actually knowledge will chime in, as I am only guessing. But if I'm guessing correctly, no diesel trucks would be produced for at least a few months, and that doesn't seem very probable either. I don't really know, I was just throwing out some random thoughts.

Moose

These will not be out for sometime now anyways, the chassis should stay the same, there will be bigger coolers no doubt for the Alli, which is why the bumper is getting a bigger cut out. As for the second EGR I don't see it takin up to much room for the LML to fit in the current platform

Maybe they would make the initial offerings of the LML as a "detuned" version (and call it the 2010 LMM?) so they could use the existing allison/cooling setup/etc., like they did with the 2006 "LLY" that was really just a detuned LBZ. I have a hard time believing they would start changing the front clip/bumper/cooling system/whatever to handle the changes required for the LML and allison upgrade, prior to the plants being retooled for the 2011 models, and/or then make additional changes? (I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts/concerns into text - sorry if this is hard to follow.)

Or maybe there are zero changes required for slapping the new LML/allison upgrade into an existing truck? Everything is self-contained?

Moose

frame is going to be slightly different on the LML's as far as I know. Stabilitrak will be standard on everything except the dually's. Also, look for an increased front GAWR/revised front suspension, so guys with a crew cab diesel can "safely" put a plow on. No, it wont be solid front axle.

ben

So do you know what the revised front suspension will be? Beefier coil-overs?

Any chance the new frame doesn't have the dip down under the cab area?

The Dip under your cab area is on all truck GM Ford and Dodge, the GM frame is just a big sucker. Hydra forming could help decrease the size of the frame alot. But as far as I know they are not. Ben would know better than me though. I would venture to say there will be a beffy coilover setup on the front.

I think the front and center section of the HD chassis is hydroformed. Hydroforming as a manufacturing process, and does not necessarily mean a hydroformed part is stronger than a conventional stamped part.

...There is no reason to have a boost gauge on any stock turbo'd truck. ...

dont mean to get off topic, but you seem to know all the answers and be telling everyone how things work here.

"theres no reason to have a boost gauge on and STOCK TURBOED truck" ? are you effin kidding me? you living in such a high tech age you forget about the trucks where you can modify the tuning/fueling/timing/etc where a boost gauge MIGHT matter when you are running a stock turbo? hmmmm 12v cummins comes to mind. oh wait, so does about any diesel running a programmer that can fuel enough to produce enough boost to hurt/kill a stock turbo.

IIRC i was making 30+ PSI on my stock turbo on the truck i have now, when the turbo is rated for just about 30 PSI max....

you make such general statements man. not like i should really care about what you say, just thought id point this fact out.

why not

dodge did it for years.

not to bring the expected dodge/cummins defense, but can we see some proof of this? IIRC the motors in stock form never exceeded the max input power to the trans. yeah the dodge trannys are weak. i know first hand (even though i did hold out pushing 90+ hp/~200 ft/lbs to the rear wheels for over a year over stock) but for a long time, it was very much easier to blow up/hurt a dodge trans with power adders to the motor than it was to any ford or GM.

as i said, not trying to argue, can we just get some proof here. and not trying to change the subject, as i have been enjoying reading this thread and learning the expectations of the next generation dmax as well as newer allison trans behind it.

time will tell as far as what we see be released. time will tell.

dont mean to get off topic, but you seem to know all the answers and be telling everyone how things work here.

"theres no reason to have a boost gauge on and STOCK TURBOED truck" ? are you effin kidding me? you living in such a high tech age you forget about the trucks where you can modify the tuning/fueling/timing/etc where a boost gauge MIGHT matter when you are running a stock turbo? hmmmm 12v cummins comes to mind. oh wait, so does about any diesel running a programmer that can fuel enough to produce enough boost to hurt/kill a stock turbo.

IIRC i was making 30+ PSI on my stock turbo on the truck i have now, when the turbo is rated for just about 30 PSI max....

you make such general statements man. not like i should really care about what you say, just thought id point this fact out.


Nuk..you really have no clue what you are talking about in the gm tuning world. I can add all the fuel I want to and the boost does not change till I change the boost tables. Ben has more brains in his little finger than you have in your whole body..I would not get into a battle of the brains with him..

dont mean to get off topic, but you seem to know all the answers and be telling everyone how things work here.

"theres no reason to have a boost gauge on and STOCK TURBOED truck" ? are you effin kidding me? you living in such a high tech age you forget about the trucks where you can modify the tuning/fueling/timing/etc where a boost gauge MIGHT matter when you are running a stock turbo? hmmmm 12v cummins comes to mind. oh wait, so does about any diesel running a programmer that can fuel enough to produce enough boost to hurt/kill a stock turbo.

IIRC i was making 30+ PSI on my stock turbo on the truck i have now, when the turbo is rated for just about 30 PSI max....

you make such general statements man. not like i should really care about what you say, just thought id point this fact out.

Seeing as this thread is titled 2010 DURAMAX 6.6L LML and not 1989 CUMMINS 5.9L which truck do you think I was referring to?

You're putting words in my truck. Read the whole thread, somebody said "I hope they are putting a boost gauge in the new 2010/2011 LML duramax" and I responded "there is no reason to have a boost gauge on a stock turbo'd [VARIABLE VANE TURBO LIKE THE LML IS GOING TO BE, WHICH IS WHAT THIS THREAD IS ALL ABOUT IF YOU WOULD CHILL OUT AND READ IT] truck". Yes sorry, I should have added whats in brackets in my original post, I just assumed everyone would know what I was talking about since most people here are familiar with the "high tech world of duramax's". :) ;)

ben

NUK.

Just read some of Bens threads,or look in his garage Before you post again.
He is not some dumb ass,Truthfuly his a ******ING GENUIS!!!!!!

Finding all the diff stuff on the LML. BEN why dont you work for NASA,or somthing like that????

Quit the BS and get back on topic astronauts

I am not a space man

And how GM copied BMW on the very same thing, who actually has it in production on a car you can buy off the lot right now?

I think common sense told them to reverse the air flow. The original design made sense if you did not have an intercooler. With the intercooler, you are piping the intake air into the lifter valley twice. Not sure why they didn't catch this with the original design, but I don't think it was a stroke of genius to figure it out.

the only reason it gets piped to the valley twice on these engines is thats where the stuck the turbo o save room and ease of running the exhaust up pipes. If you were to off mount the turbo from the valley to the side like on a twins set-up then it would require more piping and a unbalanced exhaust flow to the turbo from the short and long runner lengths of the "up pipes".

not sure how hot the air will get with out the intercooler. from the turbo exhaust right into the heads; the short run and seems to work fine for the industrial engines, sooo......

cool

A new HD chassis is coming!!! (http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/update-chevrolet-84880/)

A new HD chassis is coming!!! (http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/update-chevrolet-84880/)

Woooo Hooooo NOT!:mad:

I Just went through 9 pages of BS,that doesn't tell anymore than your One Liner!

New Chassis? The Frame or the front end or all of it??? We have known for a while they are talks about the front suspension,But i would like to see a Whole new frame and Suspension.....For a Better ride cause Right Now GM has the worst Ride of the Big 3 :mad: and calling it worst is an understatement!
Even though WORST means:Bad in the highest Degree :mad:

Woooo Hooooo NOT!:mad:

I Just went through 9 pages of BS,that doesn't tell anymore than your One Liner!

New Chassis? The Frame or the front end or all of it??? We have known for a while they are talks about the front suspension,But i would like to see a Whole new frame and Suspension.....For a Better ride cause Right Now GM has the worst Ride of the Big 3 :mad: and calling it worst is an understatement!
Even though WORST means:Bad in the highest Degree :mad:

Sorry for not providing any new news. All the talk I've been reading for months was that a new chassis MAY be coming but nothing was confirmed.

It's nice to see that someone at GM actually came out and said the rumor was true.

But who knows what this "new chassis" is all about.

I read that The front end was going from a 5,000 to a 6,000 pound a while back,Infact i read it was about people usen the trucks to Snow plow,which i Found Kinda funny ,cause i didn't realize that many people where Plowing snow LOL

I also read some of the guys Thought they may Beef up whats on the half ton truck and use that,Me i don't care what they use long as its stronger and gives a Better Ride!

I really thought it was because the front's are a weak link with the chevy truck,Thats why one of the First things Many do is Buy the sleeves for the rods on front and the braces for the Steering.... I just hope they up grade Everything and improve the ride while they are at it.

I wonder how many of those army Hummers are having problems? I'm sure they are strong units,GM should give us something like they Have in them...

It Just makes me mad at GM, for us to spend $52,000 some even more, on a Truck Only to turn around and have to put More money into it buying parts to keep it from breaking down, Crap that don't even sound Correct!

For that kinda money you should be able to give it hell for a couple of years before it broke down ...within reason of course!

Right now all you got to do is jump on the Throttle just right in 4x4 and you got a Bow legged truck :~( and a Ferd owner laughin at ya !

Never had any issues with the front end of my 06 and that was after 158,000 miles of towing and hauling, and some work on rough sites.... Was a great truck and I love the NBS styling

I still want a 4.5 Suburban.

Amen to that!

rather minimal compared to Ford copying GM's 4.5 Duramax reverse flow heads with the exhaust ports in the valley of the V. :D
Thats what happens when GM test at a outside company then that outside company designs Ford a new engine!!!

Right...:rolleyes:
I knew the oil companies were behind the failure of GM to produce the 4.5:cool:
I don't know if it was the oil companies fault, but last summer when it hit 4.00 a gal, then truck sales fell due to the economy. And projected volume fell to 20-30,000 units it got canceled. highway mileage would have been 29 or more, combined driving yielded 23-24.

I don't know if it was the oil companies fault, but last summer when it hit 4.00 a gal, then truck sales fell due to the economy. And projected volume fell to 20-30,000 units it got canceled. highway mileage would have been 29 or more, combined driving yielded 23-24.
So are we staying on top, or am I keeping my 06?

As far as the "new Chassis", my dealer won't really let anything out. Just keeps saying that "in a few months" the word will be out.. but not to buy right now... just wait.
It's good to know that there are some knowledgeable people out there. Wasn't informed of the suspected "weak front-end (go figure)

As far as the "new Chassis", my dealer won't really let anything out.

thats because your dealer doesnt know any more than you do. ;)

dealers are not privy to any more new product information than we the general public are. Its not like dealers get secret tech specs and new designs way before we learn about them.....

President Obama and the current Congress in Washington DC are the biggest bunch of incompentents we have ever seen. They are bankrupting this great country all the while pushing forward with dangerous, irresponsible policies that threaten our future. T.A.R.P., Cap&Trade, Health Care Reform all have the potential to damage our economy to the point that it may never recover as we know it. They have instituted policies that will have a negative impact on our economy for generations to come. The Chinese government now holds over a TRILLION dollars of our deby. (that means we owe them!) They are going to have unheard of access to our markets further reducing manufacturing jobs in the U.S. This gives them, and others, the means to become an economic superpower on the world stage. Military Power follows economic power folks!
Don't forget that we are giving up freedoms and liberties at an alarming rate! They are telling us what light bulbs we have to buy, what windows we have to buy for our houses, and what vehicles we can drive and on and on.....
I bet many of you can site numerous additional examples of dangerous policies put forth by the Obama Administration and our current Congress.

So what does this have to do with Duramax, Powerstroke or Cummins?

This:

Who is it that played a large roll in putting Obama and his buddies in office through financial contributions!

The UAW!

While I'm all for protecting workers from unfair labor practices and ensuring a fair wage to workers, lets face it the UAW doesn't exist to protect the workers any longer. It exists to keep the Union Executives in power and fat with cash. The workers on "the lines" every day are nothing more than pawns in the game to keep these guys rich. They are necessary pawns but pawns to be used and discarded none the less.
The UAW contributed in a big way toward putting Obama in office and look what they got in return. A controlling financial stake in GM and Chrysler. They control Billions more dollars than they did before the 2008 Presidential election. Tax payer dollars from you and I and ironically, from the UAW workers in the plants and guess who is collecting unemployment? The workers and over 1 in 10 other U.S. workers!

It pains me to feel this way but I think I'm done buying anything that comes out of "Detroit". I can't stand the thought that my dollars will contribute to this whole corrupt mess. I guess I'll buy a Toyota Tundra made in Texas by American workers who are putting American kids through college and paying an American mortgage and trying to live the American Dream. I hope Toyota comes to market with a HD Diesel option in the next 5 years or so.

OR, I hope we take our country back beginning with the 2010 mid term elections and throw these morons out on thier asses!

That's my 2 cents...........

Dave, I mostly ignore anti-worker ravings like yours but you are over the top. What country do you live in? You are going to send your money over to build other countrys? Do you work or own a business in this country? I know you are probably real smart and good looking too. But when you or a loved one leave your gated community someday for a gallon of milk and find yourself looking down the barrell of a gun, it might be too late to consider this.

can some one tell me what GM palns to change and keep the same from the lmm to lml. i am in the market for a brand new truck, should i buy now and pay the extra for the desiel option or wait.

Personaly, I would hold off to see "what shakes out". You know that they are going to have some of the lmm motors in the early 2010's but without the suspension enhancements that are "supposed (maybe)" to come for the 2011's. Or.. they may have them in the 2010's. No one really knows for sure. With whats left in the market for the 2009's I would wait. If your are gonna drop the cash, a few months wouldn't hurt.
A lot of dealers have a better insight as to what improvments are coming but don't really know what which one will actually make it to production until it gets closer to release.
The dealer I've delt with over the past 20+ years knows more than I, but not what actually is coming (other than what Detroit says is in the works). But again... it's not written in stone yet.
I'd wait.... they are gonna make enough to go around.

It sure is nice to see posts like Daves. I have always been a gm fan and sure do like what they are building now days. Some very good vehicles that I can not afford and do not think I could bring my self to purchase if I could. (Due to the bail outs!)
I must say I could not buy a toyota either
I sure do find it funny that jmrkav seems to think it is A OK to borrow money from China to bail gm and others out and yet attack Dave for supporting a japanese maker!
And of course Dave must be some rich, gated community, un-American. Because he was willing to speak out against what our new hope and change government is doing to our country!
Thank you Dave! For saying what needs to be said to hopefully wake people up before it is too late!

I would also like to add that I look forward to gm paying us the tax payers back and getting out from under the governments thumb. I also think that if we the voters would stop voting for politicians that are bought and controlled by environmentalist groups etc. That force our American companys into going overseas or be forced to look to us for bail-outs! We wouldnt have to worry about China,Japan, Or any other oil rich arab countries hurting us or our economy anymore.

After looking at my rants from last night it is clear that my posts have nothing to do with this thread. It does not look like I can edit or remove these so if a moderator could, That would be great. Happy new year!

Superwagon, Unfortunately we have to partially rely on China and other international markets to survive in today's market. While I agree that it would be nice to be able to support the US market SOLEY, times have changed. "Maybe" the Big 3 have gotten a wakeup call that they will listen to this time! I too have always been a GM fan but we all have to admit that the Foreign maret does make a good product (look at how the Tundra's and Titan's have affected the Truck Market). When Toyota starts to make a Diesel version you can bet that it will be a quality product. Big 3 didn't heed the warnings back in the 70's and got brought to their knees this time. Let's all hope that they listened. Many companies have come back from Bankrupcy to become successful again. I still have and will continue to have faith that the American product can be as good better than others.
Buying Toyotas that are made in my home state does support the families (but the big money still goes overseas). We buy American vehicles that are parted out from different locations throughout the US and abroad.
Sadly. there is no clear "made in USA" anymore. Just that the BIG 3 has more impact because "most" of it is produced here.
Guys, I am not "throwing darts" at anyone. I believe that we have to change to survive. The Big 3 made LOTS OF CASH by producing a product that was not made to last long back in the early 70's. Their mentality was to make you buy parts to repair. As an example, Toyota captured the market by producing vehicles for the long term thereby getting "generations to buy in". It worked. Now the BIG 3 have to play "catch up" and they are doing a great job! They simply started later.
I want them to survive and be succcessful as I'm sure all of you do.
Let's get back to Truck talk..

Dave, I mostly ignore anti-worker ravings like yours but you are over the top. What country do you live in? You are going to send your money over to build other countrys? Do you work or own a business in this country? I know you are probably real smart and good looking too. But when you or a loved one leave your gated community someday for a gallon of milk and find yourself looking down the barrell of a gun, it might be too late to consider this.

What????? None of that made any sense.

He's right. GM was bailed out because of the UAW, not because they are necessary.

What????? None of that made any sense.

He's right. GM was bailed out because of the UAW, not because they are necessary.

Absolutely right. Had GM been allowed to go bankrupt last year, they would have been released from their crippling UAW contracts, and would have reorganized to be a much stronger company today; instead Obama paid back his union contributors, and has assumed control of GM; it will probably never be the same again. BTW, anti-union is NOT anti-worker.

I know that my reply was slightly off topic for this thread but it is arguably relevant to ANY discussion on this forum.

Thank you moderators for NOT moving this thread to some obscure place where nobody will read it.

JMRKAV, My intent is not to insult or offend you or anyone else with my comments. Apparently others have reached similar conclutions as mine. It's tempting to make inflamatory responses such as yours in leu of taking the time to think about the substance of the discussion. Too many times replies like yours are thrown out by those who seek only an emotionally charged response so that they may then engage in some name calling rant.
I.E. suggesting that I don't live in the same reality that you and everyone else does ( Gated Community)Or that I'm unpatriotic (sending my $ overseas)

I've been down that road before.....

QUESTION:

What's the difference if I buy a Toyota and the sales dollars support American families with some of those dollars going overseas Or If I buy a GM product which supports American families and none of those dollars go overseas???

ANSWER:

A)The difference is that in buying the "American product" some of the sales dollars go to support the UAW and in turn support the DUDS in DC who then piss it away and have to sell our debt to folks like the Chineese who would be very happy to financially control our country and in turn YOU and ME!

B)The sales dollars that go tho the Japanese get reinvested in new production facilities, like the Tundra plant in Texas, and employ humdreds of American workers!

"B" is how our system SHOULD work but it dosen't. Instead we have "A", it's broke!
Continue to support it in it's current state and it will continue to stay broke



I deal with American businesses, mostly manufacturing, for a living. I've seen first hand how the situation that I've described hurts the businesses and the American workers who work for them.

I would ask that instead of getting mad think about the situation at hand take some time to think about it and you will be able to connect the same dots that I and others have connected.
I learned a long time ago that just because somebody is telling me something that I don't like hearing doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't true. The sooner you can see a situation for what it is, the sooner you can take corrective action. The DUDS in DC count on people keeping their heads in the sand and refusing to look ant further than at the surface.

Supporting something based only on what you think it represents is shortchanging your own intelligence.Buying on brand loyalty is foolish. The Blue Oval guys kept buying on brand loyalty for years and look at what it got them.... The 6.0L Powerstroke. Widely regarded as a "problematic" engine. But they kept buying so Ford kept giving them what they wanted.

I just used Toyota as an example but if they make a better mousetrap......
That will only force the others to change or die.

Likewise if you choose to send your sales dollars to support an organization who does NOT propagate the kind of back door corruption that our beloved UAW has come to represent then they will have to change or die.

Well said!

The overall situation is even worse. :(
Go here: http://biggovernment.com/2010/01/02/hijacking-the-private-sector-the-blago-way/

We need to keep this going.

How can we get it moved to a place of higher visibility on this forum??

I too am a diesel tech, and own a 2002 LB7, and I find a pyrometer very handy when I am towing in the rocky mountains here in colorado. I beg to differ and think an egt is essential, I only run 65 extra horsepower and once forgot to remove the grille cover on a 35 degree day and watched the egt bury itself and I quickly removed the cover and everything went back to normal. So i believe even in stock or close to it you could damage a turbo when towing under the right conditions.