I other day while driving with the Predator set on 40hp & 100 ft/lb gain I thought the boost didn't seem very much, hardly any actually. What I saw was very little boost around and less than 5 psi and a Max of 21 psi when romping on it. I wanted to compare it to stock so I downloaded stock program and sure enough the stock program has far more boost that the predator. Seems to have more low end torque. Which is equates to more pulling power for towing.

I'll admit the Predator certainly has the ponies but without the torque what good is it to those of us which bought these trucks to do what the diesel was intended to do PULL HEAVY LOADs not race the rice grinders!!!!

So is it me or is the PREDATOR just a fueling increaser to gain the HP? It certainly does not increase boost for the amount of fuel. Such the reason the Predator runs HOT.

Any thoughts or KNOWS I want a truck that can TOW.



2005 GMC SLT, Sunroof, SB, CC, XM, Cab over lights, SS handles, SS rockers, 15k Reese slider, Line X, Predator, 4" turbo back Silverline Exhaust, Overhead EGT & Boost Gauges.

How many lbs you seeing stock?

sea wizard Im seeing the same numbers... and the EGT's from the predator on 40 is disturbing. I ran a mild hill WOT and the EGT's hit 1200 almost instantly and I backed off. the hill isnt much to speak of either.

I also see almost no boost around town, and a max of 22-23 at WOT. this drops off to about 5 or 6 when i let off the go pedal. not enough boost. i dont think predator can get into the boost booster controller:mad:

I saw 5 to 7 psi around town normal driving in Stock and max @ WOT of 22 -23 psi.

Sea Wizard, I bought my Dmax for the same reason as you. I needed a pack mule. Running a 13 second Quarter is not that important to me. I was planning on buying a Predator sometime this month, but if the Preditor is not going to make any difference in towing, I may not bother with it.

My predator is for sale...........

I ran a mild hill WOT and the EGT's hit 1200 almost instantly and I backed off. the hill isnt much to speak of either.


Run the hill stock and see what happens. I bet it will get hot just as fast.

The lower levels of the Predator don't make as much boost as the higher levels. Put it on 100 and watch the gauge.

The Edge EZ doesn't increase boost at all, and the truck goes pretty fast anyways.

Don't confuse boost with HP. It's not the same thing. I can make 45 PSI with a race tune stacked with a Van Aaken. It's not significantly quicker than a single tune that makes 30 PSI.

If you want to make boost, get a VA box.

If you want huge gains in TQ, try the Edge EZ.

If you want to have massive power at 1500rpm, buy a Caterpillar. The Duramax does not have good UMPPHH at 1500.

I don't tow heavy. Perhaps 17k combined. But I can go up any hill and get a ticket, and most hills, get thrown in jail. I probably have over 15,000 mi towing so far, more than 1/2 my miles. And I can run a 13 second ET. It's not mutually exclusive unless you wish it to be.

McRat... what are your personal limits for EGT's? Ive heard many different thresholds... from backing off at 1250 to letting it go to 1500 +

Im simply looking for what I should do to keep from wearing anything out.

Oh BTW... whats the point of boost if it doesnt influence HP? I always ASSumed more boost = more fuel = less heat = more overall performance.

Horse Power equates to speed and quickness which does not pull heavy loads the main reason for buying a diesel. My 98.5 CTD with 205K on it will has more TQ than my 2005 Dmax. I bought my Dmax to take over towing but at this rate if I can't tow @ 65 to 75 mph up & down the hills with it whats the use of having it!

I just might have a GMC fully loaded crew cab Dmax for sale. Next week the story will start to unfold. I will be pulling my 30' 5er & fishing boat thru the hills of northern Kansas. It won't be as heavy as I usually pull but it will give me an idea if its going to cut it or not. I usually pull my 5er and my 20' Sea Ray Cuddy cabin together with my CTD, i top the scales @ 20K and 75' long. NO problem with the CTD, EGTs, and I pull it in overdrive. granted the truck has 205K miles, original fan belt & fuel pump & injectors, and so on, banks exhaust, banks program, and DTT VB & TC 91%. I never have seen and EGT higher than 1100 on the hotest 108 degree day in Kansas and run the hills @ 60 to 65 mph and get 10 to 12 mpg.

It will be interesting what this Dmax will do but from the little bit of pulling and driving it I think its a safe bet that it is not going to cut it.

I will follow up after trip.

I hope Dodge hurries up and gets their new Mega Cab out cause I think I will be the first in line for one.


2005 GMC SLT -CB, SB, XM, Sun Roof, Cab Overs, Line-X Bed liner, 15k Reese Slider, SS Rockers & Door Handles, Aux Back Up Lights, 4" turbo back exhaust, Overhead EGT & Boost Gauges, Stock Tires,

McRat I sent you an email regarding the Edge EZ. If you want you can just post the reply here.

Thanks

Joshua

McRat... what are your personal limits for EGT's? Ive heard many different thresholds... from backing off at 1250 to letting it go to 1500 +

Im simply looking for what I should do to keep from wearing anything out.

Oh BTW... whats the point of boost if it doesnt influence HP? I always ASSumed more boost = more fuel = less heat = more overall performance.

I'll check again next time I tow, but it seems the stock motor will go 1300+ as delivered.

I've towed over 15k with various tunes and stock. I worry when the EGT's SUSTAIN 1400 or greater. I can go 20 minutes straight at 1300 and not worry, as that is what a stocker will do.

Horse Power equates to speed and quickness which does not pull heavy loads the main reason for buying a diesel. My 98.5 CTD with 205K on it will has more TQ than my 2005 Dmax. I bought my Dmax to take over towing but at this rate if I can't tow @ 65 to 75 mph up & down the hills with it whats the use of having it!

I just might have a GMC fully loaded crew cab Dmax for sale. Next week the story will start to unfold. I will be pulling my 30' 5er & fishing boat thru the hills of northern Kansas. It won't be as heavy as I usually pull but it will give me an idea if its going to cut it or not. I usually pull my 5er and my 20' Sea Ray Cuddy cabin together with my CTD, i top the scales @ 20K and 75' long. NO problem with the CTD, EGTs, and I pull it in overdrive. granted the truck has 205K miles, original fan belt & fuel pump & injectors, and so on, banks exhaust, banks program, and DTT VB & TC 91%. I never have seen and EGT higher than 1100 on the hotest 108 degree day in Kansas and run the hills @ 60 to 65 mph and get 10 to 12 mpg.

It will be interesting what this Dmax will do but from the little bit of pulling and driving it I think its a safe bet that it is not going to cut it.

I will follow up after trip.

I hope Dodge hurries up and gets their new Mega Cab out cause I think I will be the first in line for one.


2005 GMC SLT -CB, SB, XM, Sun Roof, Cab Overs, Line-X Bed liner, 15k Reese Slider, SS Rockers & Door Handles, Aux Back Up Lights, 4" turbo back exhaust, Overhead EGT & Boost Gauges, Stock Tires,


Horsepower is torque and RPM. Since you say a stock 98 Cummins out torques a Duramax, you should probably stick with the Cummins. I know that climbing up to Flagstaff (7100') with a 11.5' camper, a 22' car trailer, a 3100lb car, 1500lb of fuel, tires, spares and tools, it cruised at 75mph in 5th gear with just a "50HP" TTS tow tune. The 3 Cummins I passed were going 45mph.

Your truck will pull best at 2100-2500. This is where the engine was designed to pull the hardest. The Cummins was designed to pull at a lower rpm. But 2100 rpm is hardly "racing" a pickup engine.

Not to be the instigator here, but have you guys ever heard of WEIGHT LIMITS! Your insurance company will FREAK if you have an accident pulling 20000 pounds with a truck rated for 12.5 or whatever. I'm still of the opinion that these trucks do ok (yes, they run a lil warm egt-wise) when they are pulling what they are rated for. If you need to pull that much, buy a bigger truck.!:rant:

ok.....flame away, just being moody today.!:)

My predator is for sale...........

Hey sledmen how much is your predator for sell for? I need a diagnostic tool and you have it!!

[QUOTE=McRat]Horsepower is torque and RPM. Since you say a stock 98 Cummins out torques a Duramax, you should probably stick with the Cummins.
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/funnypost.gif

If you think a 98 Cummis can out pull a Duramax you should sell it!!! I pull a 50ft 3 Car Lowboy usually running between 15-20+k and usually watching the Dudges go by in my rearview. Take for example one of my last trips to Aspen I had 2 Jeep Libery V6's and Grand Cherokee V8 on board and pulled Loveland and Vail pass at 55mph with no problem! I passed more than one Dodge with a baby 5th'er on board. Oh... and EGT's were between 1100 and 1300 and these are Mountains out here...not hills!
Oh and sorry to momentarily hi-jack the thread!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the Predator doesn't make enough boost when pulling. EGT's are hard to manage. On my 03 2500 HD with a Banks kit, I could regularly hit 15-18 psi in 5th pulling a grade, but with the Predator on 40 pulling the same trailer, I can't seem to get more than 8-10 psi, and the egts go thru the roof in a hurry. Has plenty of power, but the egts are to high for my liking. MORE BOOST PLEASE...PREDATOR!

Has anybody spoken with Predator about this? I know the programmers have the ability to have a custom tune loaded into them. Maybe they could whip one up and somebody could be a tester for it.? Being ignorant, I dunno what it takes to get more boost, but seems like if edge and them can doit, so could predator....?:o:

If you are looking for boost, try the VA box.

I guess I really need to play with the "under kill" tunes a little more. Any towing I've done with the Predator has been set on 100, and I watch the temps.

Which of these programmers are seeing the lowest pulling temps? I have the Pred and exausht on my 05 but no gages yet. I'm going to be pulling 11K next week and now you've got me worried. Was going to run the pred on 40 tune but know I don't know. Still time to order another box if I get some help. McRat seems you like the VA or TTS for towing which do you like better and were is the best place to buy? Thanks.

The TTS tow for LLY's continues to be choice for stock trucks towing. When it came out, I first ran to Las Vegas with a 24' enclosed trailer with racecar in 115 deg heat through the mountains. It worked great. But the truck was bone stock and didn't even have gauges.

So I loaded up camper and racecar on flatbed, and at 17,000lb (scaled at truck stop) I ran to Kentucky and back. Again zero problems. It's the tow tune I trust the most.

BUT! I never had gauges. All I know is that it didn't hurt the truck with 6,000mi towing at high speed, high altitude. Zero problems. I believe Diesel Tech has EGT numbers for it, but I forget.

Next long distance trip, I will revisit the TTS Tow, and report the temps.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the Predator doesn't make enough boost when pulling. EGT's are hard to manage. On my 03 2500 HD with a Banks kit, I could regularly hit 15-18 psi in 5th pulling a grade, but with the Predator on 40 pulling the same trailer, I can't seem to get more than 8-10 psi, and the egts go thru the roof in a hurry. Has plenty of power, but the egts are to high for my liking. MORE BOOST PLEASE...PREDATOR!
Hum...I've got Predator on 40hp tune, and not even towing (just floor the foot pedal), I can get spikes up to 30psi. Granted, it runs around 5-10psi empty on CC at 75mph, but it jumps quickly to over 20psi if I drop the hammer. I'm going to tow a 7000lb travel trailer this weekend, and I'll let you know what it typically "boosts" to. Also looking forward to what the EGT's run on the new gauges...

-JM

Hey guys I am not dogging on the DMAX, I've got a lot of $ tied up in these truck. I know the Dmax has more HP & TQ than a Stock CTD.

What I am saying is the stock program boosts more than and seems to have more torque and EGTs stay coooler than with these Programers and particularly with the Predator.

I've only had my Predator on 65 hp and it makes plenty of HP but it seems lacking for torque and has plenty of EGT. It just doesn't seem as if the boost / torque is there when comparing it to the stock program.

I have observed much more boost through the throttle with the stock program than with the Predator and much cooler EGTs. in the neighborhood of 300F. Now that's not towing yet but I will be towing around 12K + Truck this next week. I plan on towing in Stock for awhile and then downloading the 40 HP tune and hopelfully get a good evaluation.

What I am saying is the stock program boosts more than and seems to have more torque and EGTs stay coooler than with these Programers and particularly with the Predator.

Well, personally, I'm not sure I would think that most of the higher EGT's are coming from differences in boost. It is primarily because the predator is fooling the computer into putting more fuel into the combustion cycle that is getting you that increased horsepower/torque and causing hotter EGT's. I'll have to compare stock to predator settings for boost, and you may be correct that the predator boosts less, but I really think it has NOTHING to do with the higher EGT's (or minimal at best). Monitoring the ACTUAL fuel vs the expected fuel on the predator diagnostics tracks pretty close to the hotter EGT's and not with boost differences that I can tell. Most of my experience is with the 40hp setting on the predator only (I've not spent too much time with the higher settings...yet).

-JM

I was thinking, your "boost" pressures are all differential to the current barametric pressure on these gauges (except on the predator diagnostic reading of MAP, which is more "absolute" pressure). And I would think that the turbo can only really approach a certain absolute pressure max efficiently. Which means, I would think, it should be easier to achieve more "differential" boost (as measured on these mechanical gauges) at higher elevations. Maybe you guys down at sea level don't see as much boost, because your O2 sensors are already telling the computer you have enough absolute boost? Just a thought.-JM

More fuel = more heat with more fuel you should add boost which with more boost you get more air thru turbo thus lowering EGTs.

Same amount of boost with more fuel will give you more EGTs which is what we are seeing.

I ran to exact same runs with my 30' 5er Sat. in the am, 1 on stock programmer and 1 in 40 hp predador.

Boost was about the same, stock did seem to boost more, and the temps stayed below 1250, Predator ran somewhat hotter I hit 1250 faster but I was running 5 mph faster.

Just my observation.

I personally don't think the 40 hp gain and 100 ft/lb program was much different than stock as far as performance.

Well, sure am glad I put these gauges in!!! I hooked up to my 25' Wildwood travel trailer (6950lbs dry, almost 7700lbs loaded with water), and we towed on I-84 this past weekend. Outside temp was 65-70'F and there weren't any really nasty long hills on our route. I checked both stock and +40hp Predator setting.

I didn't notice the stock tune turning in significantly more boost, but it was just a little higher (2psi or so). I'm guessing that is because of the way the predator lies to the computer on the fuel that the engine is ACTUALLY getting, which makes the computer turn in less boost for a given estimate. Also, the stock tune NEVER got above 1350'F (it pops up to 1200'F pretty quick, and then just creeps up to around 1300'F mostly over long pulls). The +40hp setting would quickly exceed 1400'F and didn't show signs of slowing down by the time I would pull my foot off. It would run 1300'F just on a level road at 75mph cruise (and any little hill would send it over 1400'F, pretty quick). This is one place that the Edge/Attitude is probably a great buy with the defueling ability. I don't think it had much to do with the "boost", and was MUCH more the delta that the predator was doing with the fuel being delivered.

-JM

I personally don't think the 40 hp gain and 100 ft/lb program was much different than stock as far as performance.
your refering to the towing aspect, right?

Since 75% of my reason for buying a Preditor would be for towing, do you guys think it is worth it? Other 25% would be for improved fuel mileage. Did that improve?

Since 75% of my reason for buying a Preditor would be for towing, do you guys think it is worth it? Other 25% would be for improved fuel mileage. Did that improve?

No. to both questions, at least when towing, if all you care about is improved horsepower/mpg. I do get better power with the predator settings, but it is unuseable when towing and I have to force myself to keep my foot off the accelerator with the predator setings (even the 40hp version) or risk some seriously high EGT's. Now, if you were to improve some of the EGT's with say an exhaust mod too...maybe, but for me, it just doesn't seem reasonable to tow with the Predator settings and no other EGT mods.

Predator DOES have some good things to offer (such as all the real time diagnostics codes and being able to fix the speedo problem with different tire sizes, as well as clear and read codes). So, it wasn't a wasted purchase, but if you really want to get a serious improvement in your towing, IMHO, you would be better off going with the Edge Juice+Attitude combo, which will defuel as you get to max EGT's as well as monitor limp mode on your tranny.

Just my $0.02,

-JM

I'm amazed at how hot the LLY runs compared to the LB7. With my truck on 40hp, I can stand on it in sixth gear doing about 60 on a 7% grade and bury the speedometer and never see over 1250. Right now i'm running a K&N drop in filter and and aftermarket muffler...thats it. Just amazing to see the difference in temp between the two motors. I can bury the pyro with ease though when running the 85hp setting...my pyro quits reading at 1550. Anyway.:)

J-HEFF

loose the kitty...

and stock exhaust for that matter, purchase an exhaust for an LB7, that goes all the way from the down pipe, and forget about your egt problems for the most part. by the way DONT RUN YOUR CAR TO 1500 DEGREES, THAT IS REALLY REALLY BAD!!!!

My duramax pulls loads just fine and still can beat the cummins & powerstroke diesels. And my dads 05 chevy d-max pulls his 5th wheel better than mine does and i have a 4" exhaust (turbo back) Sounds to me you liked dodge better than the duramax when you bought it. Cuz what your saying is not making sense.

Most 05's have catalitic converters which drive up the EGT's. They do make more power though so they should be better pullers.

loose the kitty...

I've seen that recommended several places, but haven't found a good post showing the best way to "do" that (i.e. what to block off, etc.)

I've got the Finger mod and EGR blocker plate. And I've seriously thought about getting new 5" exhausts (after the tow last weekend and the high EGT's I was getting).

You have a good link to kitty removal post?

-JM