I got my truck started after having the motor tore down and it runs really rough and smokes alot of white smoke. I tried cracking the six injector lines that I can get to and they all did the same. I think there is air in the system but where do I begin to look for leaks. I really wanted to be able to start it and drive it right away but that is not going to happen.:help:

Sounds like the motor is out of time and/or pump out of time. Is it hard to start?

Air in the system wouldn't do what you describe with a 'tronic pump.
Definitely need to hook a scanner to it and see what your timing references say.
(ACT/DES/ TDC Offset etc.)

Thanks for the help I have access to a scanner where I work so I will hook it up and see. It does take awhile to get it started.

Ditto on timing, mark IP and ever so slightly rotoate IP toward the drivers side, should not take much this note from FAQs OBDII time set , same movement for OBDI

MARK IP BEFORE MAKING ANY ADJUSTMENT SO YOU CAN GO BACK TO WHERE YOU STARTED IF NEED BE. Also (1) mm rotation roughly a scribe line width = 2 deg. timing change, make small moves.

I have no experience with the electronic fuel injection systems on this pickup. If someone could tell me exactly what to do to change this it would be great. Is the reason I have to set the timing because I had the heads rebiult and did a valve job? Also I have seen a tool to turn the pump, do you need this or can it be done without. I know on my 6.2 all I did was slide the pump over. Thanks I really want to get this thing running again.

If you did nothing to the pump, then I must ask if you've tested all the glows for .8-1.4 ohms anything higher and it's not hot enough and the engine will start like crap.
And yes you just loosen it and pust it over to the driverside.

If you only worked the top end, maybe you've swapped a set of the injector lines? If you did do anything to the front end where the water pump is at you may not have lined up the gears the the timing marks for the IP? IP's I have been told can run at 180° out. If that's the case, don't run it.

I put new glow plugs in when I reassembled the motor. I didn't do anything to the front of the motor. I suppose it's possible that I crossed injection lines. It started fairly well last night while I was working on it it just smoked real bad and as it warmed up it seemed to run worse, the smoke sort of went away as it got warm except when the motor missed then it would let out a puff of smoke. According to the computer the TDC is -0.6. I tried losening the pump and pusing it but it only moved a little bit and didn't change the TDC. Does this mean I need the tool or not? :help:

-.6 is in ballpark for factory TDC offset, what kind of tool you using T2?? or another, what is actual timing once you get it started?

TDC doesn't change right away. It has to have the ECT up to 170*F, all DTC's cleared. Then TDC can be manually initiated or ECM will relean in so many starts.

I was asking about base timing not TDC offset, to see what that was after the move it will change regardless of ECT. displayed as actual & desired on a scan tool.

I am using an OTC scanner. I couldn't find anywhere that said Actual timing, but I did see a DES INJECTION. Would that be the desired timing? If it is not the timing than I will have to take the intake back off and see if I crossed injection lines but I marked them and thought I put them on right. The motor seems to run then miss then run then miss and so on, it isn't a constant miss, about every 5 seconds or so.

On the scan tool I can get DES INJ, TDC, and MEAS INJ does the MEAS have anything to do with it, it is at 4.8 deg. I took the intake off and all of the lines go where they are supposed to. We are supposed to get a new scanner at the shop tomorrow so I should be able to get better readings.

I moved the pump to the drivers side the width of the line. The Actual timing is at 7.2 deg. the Desired timing is at 5.3, the TDC is still -0.6 deg. I had the intake off and ran it and it seemed to run a lot better once it got warmed up so I put the intake on and figured it would run better, it actually ran just like it did, it misses, it smokes any help would be great I wanted to have this done a week ago.

That far apart if real you got timing problems, .5 deg delta between the act & desired is about max delta you want to see. You need to take it to someone with a bidirectional tool that can initiate the time set command and see where it goes before going into a timing chain swap but I suspect that is what you are looking at, you said you had your motor tore down at thread begining, did you swap timing chain then, how many miles on the chain & gear set; if new somehow it sounds like you got the gears misindexed.

I had the intake off and ran it and it seemed to run a lot better once it got warmed up so I put the intake on and figured it would run better, it actually ran just like it did, it misses, it smokes any help would be great I wanted to have this done a week ago.
Describe what you mean by running with intake off, actual intake ?? or air filter inlet to turbo I can't imagine how one could run with actual inlet off.

I just bought the truck in January and have only put on 2000 miles myself. The truck has 105,000 miles on it and do not know what has been done to it before I bought it. All I did to the motor was have the heads rebuilt, there was a cracked valve in the right head. Until yesterday I hadn't even touched the pump or anything so I didn't know why the timing would be off.

When I start pulling the gears off what is the best way to make sure I get every thing lined up right. Do I just line up the marks on the injector pump gear?

It's keyed and not likey wrong. You have to get maesured and desired close. If you push the pump to the drivers side desired will increase if you push it passengerside it will decerease.

Matt before going too far can you answer the questions here, don't pull off timing chain set yet or even move IP much for that matter.

Describe what you mean by running with intake off and it ran somewhat better, actual intake ?? or air filter inlet to turbo I can't imagine how one could run with actual inlet off.
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That far apart if real you got timing problems, .5 deg delta between the act & desired is about max delta you want to see. You need to take it to someone with a bidirectional tool that can initiate the time set command and see where it goes before going into a timing chain swap but I suspect that is what you are looking at, you said you had your motor tore down at thread begining, did you swap timing chain then, how many miles on the chain & gear set; if new somehow it sounds like you got the gears misindexed.

You said no chain or gear work by you, how was it running before you pulled down the heads, and is it possible someone did some chain/gear work before you got it, still not enough data for me to say for sure how for you to best proceed.

QMs suggestion may get the truck running better, or it may just mask a bigger problem so we need to find out why the nearly 2 deg delta betweeen actual and desired if that is real say from someone before you setting up gears wrong or a stretched chain moving the IP won't fix that. Find someone with a Bi-directional tool Snap-On MT2500 is what many local shops have that can perform that function, GM T2 or clone is the best tool for this check. See if you can even get base timing set correctly, report back results then we can offer more suggestions based on data rether than guessing at the problem.

first off a diesel will run just fine with no intake on at all upper or lower it is just noisy that is how i check injector pumps for leaks after install real easy to see and correct

I had it running with the actual intake off. I already took the water pump cover off. We just got a new scan tool that is as close to a T2 as you can get but I already tore it apart some what.

I moved the pump to the drivers side the width of the line. The Actual timing is at 7.2 deg. the Desired timing is at 5.3

You advanced the pump too far, put it back.

first off a diesel will run just fine with no intake on at all upper or lower it is just noisy that is how i check injector pumps for leaks after install real easy to see and correct

Learn something new every day; I realized it could run without intake, but wasn't aware anyone was troubleshooting that way, is this something a novice can/should do , what are you troubleshooting/looking for by running with the intake off. Is it worth another thread talking just this issue?

You advanced the pump too far, put it back.

Observations not points of argument,

5.3 desired at idle, isn't that too low, and shouldn't a nearly 2 deg delta between actual and desired thrown a code?

Unless I'm mistaken I'm reading a couple of problems we need to look at separately here;

The initial one of hard start, which intake off seems to have helped some then he advanced the IP/time to try to fix that that did not work.

And PCM requesting only 5.3 timing for start up, it has been my experience that advancing the time should have helped the start up more what is missing here.

I'm not really sure if having the intake off helped or not because it doesn't make sense why, it just seemed to me like it ran smoother after I took it off. The reason I had it off was to make sure I didn't cross injection lines, I wasn't thinking it would do anything. I already have the timing set ordered and half way tore apart so I think I will change it anyway and go from there. Thanks for all the help it's no fun making payments on something you can't drive.

I replaced the timing set and am about ready to try it again. The chain seemed a little loose compared to the new one but I don't know if it was bad enough to cause the problem. When I go to start it how do I relearn the TDC? This is still OBDI. DO I put the pump where it was to start with or move it over some? When I do start it again I can get some readings and reply back.

The actual and desired are both 5.2 deg. I tried to relearn TDC but could not get it to work. The truck idles fairly smooth once it's warmed up, it just smokes some the whole time, if you rev it up at all it blows white smoke with a hint of blue,and stutters. The TDC is still -0.6 deg. are these numbers where they are supposed to be or not? I'm not sure what to do next.

Geeze i guess i just got lucky with mine, fired right up after 30 secs of cranking after having everything apart including blowing all the old fuel out of the lines, would have started after 15 seconds if i let it. I'm not much help but sounds like the IP is outta wack or you have a couple of wires mixed up somewhere or not connected.

The actual and desired are both 5.2 deg.
it just smokes some the whole time, if you rev it up at all it blows white smoke with a hint of blue,and stutters.
The TDC is still -0.6 deg

Something is way outta whack here.
New timing set, your DES and ACT timing are following eachother like they should now?
Did you retard the pump as I prescribed earlier?
Does your ACT timing change when you hit the gas?
If it doesn't, your timing mechanism (stepper/piston) has failed.
I'm thinking pump problem....

Post more numbers!!!!!

What numbers do you need. I can't get anymore until Monday because I am not at work right now. Let me know what numbers you need and I will post them.

For example Tex had asked what happened to timing when you pushed on the accelerator pedal. That's one that could say wether the stepper is advancing timing properly.

I didn't notice but I will try monday and let you know.

I hooked the scan tool up and the timing does move when you push the accelerator pedal. It idles smooth when it is cold, but the timing is at about 10 and it idles faster. Once it warms up the timing comes down to 5.3 and it starts knocking, when it does knock it lets out a puff of smoke, then clears up, then knock and smoke. If you push the pedal it smokes real bad and chugs. It will get up to speed if you try hard, but it fills up the shop with smoke real bad. Should I retard the timing as TDG said and see if it helps or just leave it where it was?

...do you have an EGR?

Yes I have an EGR. Could that cause problems like this? When I had it off I tried pushing it in and out and it moved. Even then it wouldn't explain the knock on the right side of the motor, would it? If you need some more numbers just let me know which one's.

I called a local diesel shop. They said to rebuild the pump it was going to cost $800. He also said there was an updated version where they put in a encoder sensor :confused: and he made it sound like that would be a good idea, but I would have to get a new pump which would cost $1200.00. Do I need to get a updated pump or would it be best to just rebuild the old one? I would also mount the PMD in a different place. Just wanted some opinions, not sure if the pump is the problem, just getting some numbers.

They gave you a flat rate for a rebuild? surely that was the exchange price.

DS pumps have change A LOT, building yours, SHOULD entail updating all superceded parts to the latest PNs and the exchange one SHOULD have the updates already applied.

Among many other things, the encoder (optic) sensor is a must have update.

Exchange is probably your best bet, and the fastest way to go.

In your opinion should I go ahead and replace the injection pump, or don't you think that is the problem. I know it's kind of hard to guess because you haven't heard it but you know more about them than I do. I was wrong about the prices he told me it would be about $800 between labor and updates plus what ever else needs to be replaced. The only other option he gave me was to get a new pump, they don't take back the old pumps to rebuild them. If it is most likely the pump then I will get one coming and start tearing it apart but if you have any other ideas first I'd like to hear them. Thanks.

Anybody?

With a 105,000 miles the dealer should pay for it 'till you reach 120,000 miles.

Can this be done at any GM dealership I bought the truck 200 miles away and wanted to know if I could take it to a local dealership. I checked the lift pump and it is putting out 9 psi so that should be good. Is the pump supposed to turn on when you turn the key on or just once you start cranking?

I think it can be any dealership, it's a factory warranty extension on the IP.

The owner before me had the pump replaced, not sure when but there is a tag on it saying it was rebuilt by a diesel shop, is this going to give them an excuse to not cover it?

If your truck is still under warranty, and the pump was replaced by a dealership, it either came from Stanadyne or an authorized fuel shop.

If the General does give you a new pump, which they should, they HAVE to give you a new pump this time, and it won't be a 5521, it will be a 5942, Green Tag.

The pump I have now has a green tag on it. but I thought the tag on the back said 5521. I will talk to the dealership and post back.

Are you talking about a green tag on the front of the pump?
That used to mean that the pump was updated to the latest PN optic sensor, which has since been superceded again, they still come in the bag with new sensors, but nobody I know of uses them anymore because it looks more like an OLD updated pump.

I know I said 'tag', but what I meant by that was the actual Name Plate on the back of the pump.

I took the truck to the dealership a couple weeks ago. They spent the first week that it was there trying to figure out what was wrong, and they didn't find any thing else so they replaced the pump under warranty. They called friday and said they put on the pump and it didn't take care of it. Now they want to pull the injectors out (just put brand new ones in) and test them, they only thing I can think of is in the rush I there could be a chance that I forgot a injector gasket, but I think I put them all in. If anybody else has a idea I'd like to hear it.

Matt,

Start a fresh thread to update everyone on where you stand with your truck.