Talked with a fellow forum member last night, and he was telling me a bout tuning with EFI Live to run E85 and see increased performance. Does anyone see any issues with running it as far as the engine longevity, fuel pump (will be pushing more fuel) or any other concerns. It gets me thinking, but on the other hand, why would i support something SO government subsidized? - thats another topic though:mad:.

Who has done it, and are there any issues?

Everything that is touched by E85 must be made specifically to handle the corrosive properties of the higher percentage alcohol. The rubber components are different, the metals are stainless steel. Even the heads are different on GM vehicles. I would not run E85 in a vehicle that was not designed to specifically run E85 by the manufacturer. There's too much risk for too little gain. The corrosion will not happen all at once, it will occur over time and bugger things up.

DEWFPO

x2 on what DEWFPO said. I wouldn't recommend it!

E85 has LESS energy values per gallon of fuel than pure gasoline.

No performance increase at all!

More volume of E85 is needed to make the same amount of power per gallon of gasoline.

E85 has LESS energy values per gallon of fuel than pure gasoline.

No performance increase at all!

More volume of E85 is needed to make the same amount of power per gallon of gasoline.

Yes, that was my understanding as well... the way he explained it was to lean the motor out to a maximum of 17:1 air/fuel ratio - according to a flex fuel performance shop - because of how the E85 burns. I personally am under the same impression you are about the truck not being set-up for Flex Fuel, and that leaning it out that much obviously will limit your power. I am just going to tune it for no torque management, and whatever else the EFI live tune can help me with.

Hmm interesting. I always was under the impression that E85 was less fuel efficient but made more power with proper setup. You will however have to change some things around for the long run if your truck is not designed to work with it. I know the injectors have to go. Talk to Manic Mechanic (Vern) and he will set you on the right path as his truck is E85 fueled. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/member.php?u=34898

Ethanol has a significantly higher octane rating but less BTU's per gallon as compared to gasoline. An engine can be made to breath fire with ethanol, but converting a gasser to take advantage of ethanol is expensive.

DEWFPO

an octane is the resistance to burn the higher the number the harder to burn high octane was inteded for high hp engines with high compression ratings so it would not pre ignite and cause spark knock with out tons of money in mods the only benifit for high octane in a computer controlled car is more mpg becase it can adjust the timing different

Lots of myths out there about E85….

These are some facts about the fuel. Its not anymore corrosive then regular gasoline. All GM gasoline cars and trucks built after the early 90s can run it without changing anything other then tuning and possibly injectors depending on the injector duty cycle. It gives 5% more peak hp and much higher midrange torque then gas in a naturally aspirated vehicles, boosted engines can gain more, allot more. Best power is made running E85 richer then gas BUT best mpg is running it leaner then gas. You can safely burn it at 16.5-18:1 and pick up 5mpg over gas while cruising. HiTechMotorsports even offers a lean cruise box that allows you to turn a knob and lean out your engine to gain maximum fuel economy over gasoline. It can run at these lean ratios because it burns colder and doesn’t allow
knock.
In debating to run it in a friends camed 6.0l truck I argued with the owner of HiTech about the above facts. He said “How many people do you know that own a multimillion dollar performance shop that build 800-1000+ whp vehicles that run on E85?
I then tuned the 6.0l for E85 and he is very happy with how it runs. His 0-60 dropped .5sec instantly. He only lost 1-2mpg right with E85 but its $.70 cheaper then premium gas so he is ahead at the pump and has no fear with running it. The truck was recently in a burn out contest and was held in a brake stand between 5,000 and 6,500rpm for over 2 minutes.

Hell I couldnt imagine getting any worse mileage. It only appears I get around 160-170 miles to a tank now (22-23 gallon fillups).

Lots of myths out there about E85….

These are some facts about the fuel. Its not anymore corrosive then regular gasoline. All GM gasoline cars and trucks built after the early 90s can run it without changing anything other then tuning and possibly injectors depending on the injector duty cycle.

How true about the myths.

I know this is the case with E15 or gasohol but I saw a document from GM (on their website) last year or the year before saying why you should not run E85 in a GM vehicle that was not specifically designed for E85 and it listed all the specific parts that GM changes in an E85 approved vehicle. It did say all their vehicles were approved to run E15 without problems.

DEWFPO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY4YiEBnJ_8

I wouldnt do it, I ran it in my Ford a couple times and I got like 9mpg. Not worth it IMO.

This is not the specific GM document I mentioned in my previous post but it is another one by GM that describes E85 conversion requirements.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/toolbox/pdfs/jones_webcast_050307.pdf

DEWFPO

This is not the specific GM document I mentioned in my previous post but it is another one by GM that describes E85 conversion requirements.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/toolbox/pdfs/jones_webcast_050307.pdf

DEWFPO

GM is just trying to cover there butts for liability reasons.

Obviosly you don't want to run 100% E85 without tuning for it and GM would love for anyone that wants to run E85 to buy one of there new cars.

Well here are some vids of my friends truck running on E85

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O_JqwIpgOc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJnY0fPcAZ8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyMNak801DM

I also have a vid of it doing the 2min brake stand if you want to check that out.
This engine loves E85, it runs smoother, can take more timing, and makes allot more power.

Battle Max is right on the money. I installed the marine injectors and filled 'er up. I've been running E85 to E60 (blending with gasoline) for over two years and probably about 40,000 miles+ now with no fuel induced problems what-so-ever. The pump is healthy. The fuel lines are solid. The tank doesn't have any water in it. The regulator doesn't spring leaks. The injectors aren't worn out. The intake is still air tight. The vavles are cleaner. The rings are sealing. The pistons are clean. The bore is smooth. The convertors flow freely.It actually runs better now than it did before. Tons of torque and greater acceleration. Quite and ultra smooth engine operation. Much cooler operating temps and better A/C performance.

Milage will drop 10-20% but I know it won't knock when ran lean so there probably is something to be gained from a lean burn highway ratio. Access to the fuel is the biggest drawback for me in Texas. There's a Krogers station in my town about a mile from my shop that I pass both ways selling it and a few others within 60-70 miles. When I went to New Orleans last month I had to take a drum and only found one station East of Houston selling E85 (Pumpelly Oil Co. in Sulpher or is it Sulfer, LA). It can be a pain in the rear for sure but my truck runs fine on gasoline so I won't get stranded just slowed down.

I recommend it to anyone who has good access to E85. Just be prepared to change fuel filters often in the first few months as your fuel system will be aggressively cleaned out.

Vernon

the problems come from water absorbtion getting to aluminum parts and starts to react, seems alot of gas stations way of getting rid of water in fuel tanks is to pump it into cars. gasahol has been around since 1920/30's most recently since 1970's and mfgrs have made steps to operate with this fuel, major steps were taken starting in early 1990's to accept it. gm started ethanol challenge to have college's improve cars/trucks to run ethanol. first add-on supercharger. you can mix half/half reg/e-85, incase this seems weird, if you live in air quality zone your more than likely burning 40-60% oxiginates(methenal, ethanol, xylene, tolulene and acetone in some blend) university tested different "lends"of e-85, they used e-85, normal vehicles; f-150, gmc 1500, viper, corvette, tuarus, cobalt, neon. they drove these cars. the breaking point was 30 cent per gallon, cheaper was break even, UNI tested north dakota blend that used 1% "bio" diesel, this fuel regained lost performance on non-e-85 tuned vehicles, actually better performance in viper and corvette. with this said i have tested e-85 and full tank would trip o2 sensor, tried adding 8oz diesel to tank and seemed to take care of o2 range. alot of people confuse running methanol to ethanol. ethanol is more efficient. same thing as running propane, best results come from setting engine to use the fuel type, will payback.