We all know the woes of the dpf to help clean up emissions, however if and when urea injection is used...what will the negatives be? Less performance mods able to be used? etc etc. I don't know much about them.

I read you will have a urea tank that needs to be replenished periodically... which sucks.

Yeah I read that too, however it made it seem that it's a while before each fill. However does anyone know if there are any negative performance issues due to the urea injection? Or maybe some modifications that cannot be added anymore?

most likely every 3 to 5 tanks of fuel, you refill the urea tank. aftermarked tuners will have a hard time with all the emissions stuff going on the trucks..

Means ya gotta drink alot of water and it will piss ya off after a while :P

The injection shouldn't have a huge issue with performance add on's it is just going to be ballancing the performance stuff with the emissions stuff. I just hope that the DPF crap goes to hell cause talk about a completely idiotic setup IMO.

based off of what i heard ....

the urea is injected into the exhaust system and therefore will not effect performance or mileage ....

just what i heard and i haven't looked into this much ....

How much per mile do you think the costs will be? I would think some tuners would make a "race" version to eliminate this.

i would imagine the cost per mile would be minimal.

It's supposed to be set up to where it gets topped off at oil change intervals...

we will see when it is actually available.

I read about this already and from what it says, that it will get sprayed directly into the exhaust and that's about the just of it. But some people say it's going to cost alot per gallon because it is widely used for other things so it's going to drive the price up.

Believe you will get it refilled at oil changes. You can read up w/o much detail at BWM. They have it in their new diesels as does most people these days.

From what I understand, it actually helps performance. Well, not directly, but they have been retarding the timing on these trucks to help reduce nox emmissions, but with the urea injection taking care of that problem, timing can be advanced. I believe that is one of the reasons they are claiming an improvement in both performance and miliage for these new engines.

If I have this all wrong, I hope someone in the know will set the record straight.

Will the trucks still have the cat and dpf as well, or does this eliminate the need for them?

DPF will remain, urea is in addition to. Won't need refilling more than every 5-10k or so. MPG shouldn't be affected. It's one more thing that could go wrong but overall not a big deal.

Does anyone know what exactly the "Urea" fluid is? Some kind of ammonia solution (basically piss) is what I could come up with. It also appears to be injected into the exhaust after the DPF is what I read after doing a brief search on google. If I am wrong please redirect me, after all I did get my info online so it HAS to be correct. Basically it is more BS IMO! Just like the coffee cans they put on the cars in the 80's.

The body does produce Urea but plans also produce it too. From what i have been reading they already use this in England and France I think it was, but they claim that using this with the dpf that it will ruduce the sut to almost nothing out of the exhaust. I found all this info off of google, typed in "Urea tanks on diesel trucks" and got all the info

Also if you ever look at the dodge diesels you will see a tag on the tailgait that says Blue Tec. Dodge already makes there truck ready to run that eventough it don't have to be started Jan. 1 2010. So it on the way for us too!!

Also if you ever look at the dodge diesels you will see a tag on the tailgait that says Blue Tec. Dodge already makes there truck ready to run that eventough it don't have to be started Jan. 1 2010. So it on the way for us too!!


It's my understanding that Dodge/Cummins won't need to go the urea route. What technology are they using that's superior to GM?

They will have to go the Urea route, but form what i read that dodge is the leader over in Europe in getting all there vehicals smog ready.

a while ago i read of a manufacture (for the life of me i can't remember who) was not going to use the urea. They met the emissions without it. I do remember that they were only using small engines (like for cars).

I'm pretty sure I remember hearing that it was Dodge and that the Cummin's didn't need urea.

Depending on the amount of urea needed, it may or may not be expensive. My family owns a lawn spraying business and we use a lot of urea as a fertilizer. It is relatively inexpensive, but the prices have been growing substantially lately (doubling in the past year or two). The introduction of urea injection will have an impact on the overall price of urea, which will affect the prices of products and services that may seem unrelated.

I thought I read somewhere that it was Honda that had a diesel in development that would meet 2010 emissions w/o urea injection.

Will the injection of Urea into the exhaust stream negate the injection of diesel fuel into the exhaust - therefore increasing our MPG?

Will the injection of Urea into the exhaust stream negate the injection of diesel fuel into the exhaust - therefore increasing our MPG?

I believe someone already stated the urea will be in conjunction with the DPF. A superscrubber, so to speak. Bunch of BS to keep the tree huggers happy.

I believe someone already stated the urea will be in conjunction with the DPF. A superscrubber, so to speak. Bunch of BS to keep the tree huggers happy.

Yup, you'll still have to have the DPF

The Dodge/Cummins meets 2010 without the urea except for the chassis cabs. The new 2010 chassis cab has a urea tank.

Google up AdBlue, which is the name for the fluid in europe. There you can find it at fueling stations it seems.

I forget if it's AdBlue's page or Merc's page, one has a good summary of why they believe the urea is a better solution to NOX than the cats. Better power and economy was the gist.

I wonder how This urea would work on a truck that had deletes ?
If it would Clean it up enough to pass Emissions test ??? or if there is something else that can be added to the exhaust to clean it up, Just during test?

Someone has to come up with a way to whip this Emissions test LOL It's the American way :~)

Here's a link to a website of a company which manufactures a urea injection system. There is quite a bit of information on the site, including a note that the system uses maybe a couple of gallons of 32% urea/water mix for every 100 gallons of diesel fuel. On a different website I was reading that the urea mix will cost about $10 per gallon. Seems like they need to instal special pumps at gas stations. What a mess.

http://ureadispensingsystems.com/

Also if you ever look at the dodge diesels you will see a tag on the tailgait that says Blue Tec. Dodge already makes there truck ready to run that eventough it don't have to be started Jan. 1 2010. So it on the way for us too!!

Dodge didn't go the urea route on the Cummins. They're using a NOx Absorber Catalyst system instead. http://www.glgroup.com/News/Give-Cummins-Credit-for-2010-engine-strategy-17508.html

Honda has also come up with a similar technique that doesn't require urea. http://world.honda.com/news/2006/c060925DieselEngine/

Basically they play with the fuel mixture to generate ammonia in the exhaust instead of using a urea tank. I'm guessing the catalyst on the Cummins works similarly.

From the Honda link above-

http://world.honda.com/news/2006/c060925DieselEngine/image/02.jpg
1 During lean burn operation, the NOx adsorbent in the lower layer adsorbs NOx from the exhaust gas.

2 As needed, the engine management system adjusts the engine air-fuel ratio to rich-burn, wherein the NOx in the NOx adsorption layer reacts with hydrogen (H2) obtained from the exhaust gas to produce ammonia (NH3). The adsorbent material in the upper layer temporarily adsorbs the NH3.

3 When the engine returns to lean-burn operation, NH3 adsorbed in the upper layer reacts with NOx in the exhaust gas and reduces it to harmless nitrogen (N2).