I just ordered 55 watt HID's for my truck.:) My question is, should I install a relay with the lights? The ballasts are slim digital with 4300k bulbs. Also if I were to install a relay, could I install both ballasts off of one relay or should I use one relay per balast? I have two painless weather proof 30a relays, but one is more than capable of running two ballasts as far as amperage is concerned.

Yes run the relays as its a must especially with the runway lights your installing :D

no......you dont need relay's...HID's draw a fraction of the current that standard halogen bulbs do. Save your time and money, and just plug them in normally.

Ive run my HID's that way for years, no problems. :)

couple frineds have been running too without relays for years and.........no problems with theire either. But hey, thats just my opinion.

ben

I probably would but just buy the relay kit for the HID's. They are cheap. One HID relay kit powers two ballasts.

You need a Relay Harness, ESPECIALLY on 55w HID's.

EACH Ballast can potentially Draw a Spike over 30a EACH on Start-up. It's only for a Split Second, but do that for a few Months and you're going to be wearing out your OEM Switch, Relay, Wiring, ect...

HID's draw a fraction of the current that standard halogen bulbs do.
While operating. Not starting. :rolleyes:

While operating. Not starting. :rolleyes:

Then why have mine (and all my friends) not had a problem in the past 4 years? :rolleyes:

Do you even know how HID's and the ballasts actually work, the way the arc is struck and then stabilized?

ben

You need a Relay Harness, ESPECIALLY on 55w HID's.

EACH Ballast can potentially Draw a Spike over 30a EACH on Start-up. It's only for a Split Second, but do that for a few Months and you're going to be wearing out your OEM Switch, Relay, Wiring, ect...

I fail to see how thats possible, seeing as the switch isnt even part of the headlamp circuit.

ben

NO RELAYS.

i know better than all of you ;)

Then why have mine (and all my friends) not had a problem in the past 4 years? :rolleyes:

Do you even know how HID's and the ballasts actually work, the way the arc is struck and then stabilized?

ben

K, well apparently you haven't been Reading the HID info on this Site. Because considering 98% of the Info around here, ESPECIALLY the Sticky in the Electrical Section, all came from me. So if the "Powers The Be" around here Trust my Info enough to make it a Sticky, I think I'm am Qualified enough to call BS when I see it.

...and the Switch thing...yea, how come it went out on my Avalanche due no not running a Relay? When I had the HID's Installed, and Turned the Switch on, they wouldn't Fire. Put Halogens back in and they would Work. Went and got a New Switch, put HID's back in, and they Fired right up.

...ALSO, running a Relay GREATLY Reduces the Warm Up time as well. Especially with 55w Kits.

Yes run the relays as its a must especially with the runway lights your installing :D

Maverick - "Maverick requesting premission to land."

Tower - "Maverick, call the ball."

Maverick - "Roger. Maverick has the ball."


Ok. Funny stuff. :)

Thanks guys!

...and the Switch thing...yea, how come it went out on my Avalanche due no not running a Relay? When I had the HID's Installed, and Turned the Switch on, they wouldn't Fire. Put Halogens back in and they would Work. Went and got a New Switch, put HID's back in, and they Fired right up.

I dont know. It was a fluke maybe. Its not possible for the switch to burn out that way. This isnt 15 years ago when the power for the bulbs runs to a switch labeled "headlights" and then back out to the bulbs. Read through the GMT-800/900 electrical schematics and you will see why.

...ALSO, running a Relay GREATLY Reduces the Warm Up time as well. Especially with 55w Kits.

the starter and arc stabilizer circuitry in the ballast determines the warm up period and how long it takes the system to transition to continous operation...as long as the voltage is above 9v (minimum required by most ballasts to strike and maintain a stable arc) you are going to get light. The ballast filters the incoming power and inverts it/raises it to the proper level and monitors the resistance betweent eh electrodes to decide when to transition from the startup phase to stable arc phase. If you have crappy wiring and the ballasts are only getting 12volts instead of 14, yeah, its going to draw more current and maybe increase the load on the stock relay, but its NOT going to make the bulb take longer to warm up. :rolleyes:


Think of it like a digital audio/video signal. It either works 100% or it doesnt work at all. Thats the job of the ballast, to compensate for varying electrical input while still maintaining the lowest possible current draw to keep teh little gas molecules in the bulb excited...if the stock headlight relay in the UBEC and stock headlight wiring isnt sufficent to supply the ballast with the current it demands, it will extinguisht the arc, wait a couple seconds, then try again.

A 55 watt HID setup does not draw 30amps on startup; it would blow the fuse and/or burn out the stock headlight relay (which mine hasnt done since I installed my HID's 4 years ago). The high startup voltage is taken care of by the capacitors and inverters (because as I said before, they run on AC) in the ballast; thats why HID's dont draw ridiculous amounts of power at ANY time..............

So my HID's might be only receiving 12 or 13 volts because of the small stock relay and wiring. Who cares? Thats what the ballast is for. As long as its getting some form of DC power between 9 and 18 volts, the headlights ARE GOING TO WORK. HID's dont even run on DC for that matter either; they run on roughly 45 volts AC, 400hz. I might be wrong on the voltage and frequency, but I know the are all AC.

Basically, they arent gonna be brighter if you feed it the full 14.2 volts direct from the battery.

But if it makes you guys feel better and like its really gonna make your HID's that much better, go for it. Me, I have much more important things to work on and worry about. :)

Just my uneducated stupid opinion

ben

I dont know. It was a fluke. Its not possible for the switch to burn out that way. This isnt 15 years ago when the power for the bulbs runs to a switch labeled "headlights" and then back out to the bulbs. Read through the GMT-800/900 electrical schematics and you will see why.



the starter and arc stabilizer circuitry in the ballast determines the warm up period and how long it takes the system to transition to continous operation...as long as the voltage is above 9v (minimum required by most ballasts to strike and maintain a stable arc) you are going to get light. The ballast filters the incoming power and inverts it/raises it to the proper level and monitors the resistance betweent eh electrodes to decide when to transition from the startup phase to stable arc phase. If you have crappy wiring and the ballasts are only getting 12volts instead of 14, yeah, its going to draw more current and maybe increase the load on the stock relay, but its NOT going to make the bulb take longer to warm up. :rolleyes:


Think of it like a digital audio/video signal. It either works 100% or it doesnt work at all. Thats the job of the ballast, to compensate for varying electrical input while still maintaining the lowest possible current draw to keep teh little gas molecules in the bulb excited...if the stock headlight relay in the UBEC and stock headlight wiring isnt sufficent to supply the ballast with the current it demands, it will extinguisht the arc, wait a couple seconds, then try again.

A 55 watt HID setup does not draw 30amps on startup; it would blow the fuse and/or burn out the stock headlight relay (which mine hasnt done since I installed my HID's 4 years ago). The high startup voltage is taken care of by the capacitors and inverters (because as I said before, they run on AC) in the ballast; thats why HID's dont draw ridiculous amounts of power at ANY time..............

So my HID's might be only receiving 12 or 13 volts because of the small stock relay and wiring. Who cares? Thats what the ballast is for. As long as its getting some form of DC power between 9 and 18 volts, the headlights ARE GOING TO WORK. HID's dont even run on DC for that matter either; they run on roughly 45 volts AC, 400hz. I might be wrong on the voltage and frequency, but I know the are all AC.

Basically, they arent gonna be brighter if you feed it the full 14.2 volts direct from the battery.

But if it makes you guys feel better and like its really gonna make your HID's that much better, go for it. Me, I have much more important things to work on and worry about. :)

Just my uneducated stupid opinion.

ben


Well this is some food for thought. It makes sense that GM wouldn't put larger fuses than a wire can sustain. Therefore in theory should be able to hook up whatever you want and if it's too much for the wire the fuse should let you know. That should include 55 watt HID's. At the same rate they could be pretty cheap insurance to just use a relay in this case. Which brings us a full three hundred and sixty degrees. If nothing else it's a great discussion.

Thank you gentlemen.

-Greg

Retro Solutions Specs on their 55 Watt Kit (http://www.retrosolutionsllc.com/servlet/the-237/DIGITAL-SLIM-HID-XENON/Detail)

There is a little bit for ya direct from the manufacture that I purchased the HID's from. Which specifies 6.5 amp In Rush, which if I've done my math correctly, and I like to think I have, is 3.5 amps less than what the fuse is rated at.

-Greg

Yep. So it states there that the ignition is ~6.5A or less each. So lets say 12A for both. Halogens would be 55W/12V=4.5A each. We will say 9A total. So it would appear that HID start up amperage is ~33% more than halogens BUT less while operating. Is this not correct or am I missing something?

Yep. So it states there that the ignition is ~6.5A or less each. So lets say 12A for both. Halogens would be 55W/12V=4.5A each. We will say 9A total. So it would appear that HID start up amperage is ~33% more than halogens BUT less while operating. Is this not correct or am I missing something?


I dont know much about halogen lights, but I am sure that you are accurate on the specs for them. And just for the heck of it lets say that Hid's have a 160% higher start up amperage than Halogens. It is sill only 7.2 amps per ballast. I dont think that you are missing anything here, however on my truck there is one 20a fuse per headlight from the factory. So according to our discussion prior to this post, and the specs from the HID's, shouldnt you be able to put HID's on without a relay? Not trying to start a war just seems like it is cut and dry.:rolleyes:

Ok, so if the Wiring, Fuses, Ect.. in our Trucks are "made to handle" HID's and shouldn't have any problems, go out to your Truck, Pop the Lid off the Under Hood Fuse Box, and look at the Diagram on the Lid. Locate the FACTORY HID Relay's and or Fuses on the Lid. Now look down at the Fuse Box, and you tell me if those Spots in the Fuse Box have anything in them.

I looked and there was nothing there.:D

I didn't read all that back and forth, but to throw some fuel on the fire.........The ballast should be storing the energy required to start up the HIDs. If it isn't then your HID ballasts are cheap and are the culprit that is making you need to use a relay. There are both types available and generally the cheaper ones don't store much.

The ballast also acts as a conditioner so that the voltage spikes don't fluctuate too much during operation. Discharge type lights can't regulate volatge (no filament and they have negative resistance) so it has to rely on the ballast to do that for it.

I looked and there was nothing there.:D

The Factory HID Spots were Empty right?

That's because the correct Components are not in our Trucks to Safely handle HID's.

They may Work now, and as said by others, they may Work for a few Years, but the Components that are in there aren't Designed for HID's and only have more Stress on them that is not needed.

Besides, a Relay Harness is only about $10-15 SHIPPED, so if you're getting HID's for around $50, spend that extra Money and you're still only around $75 or so.

Ok so verdict is do whatever you feel comfortable with.

Personally I dont have the harness cause Im running 35W's and didnt have any probs on start up. If I were to step up to 55W I would get them. It would just be piece of mind for me. Kinda like a fuel filter...you dont need one for the motor to run BUT its nice to have to not worry about whats getting in the system. Ok bad analogy but you get what Im saying.

Got it, I feel about the same. Now just have to decide.

Thanks for all of the insite and opinions guys.

-Greg

Ok, so if the Wiring, Fuses, Ect.. in our Trucks are "made to handle" HID's and shouldn't have any problems, go out to your Truck, Pop the Lid off the Under Hood Fuse Box, and look at the Diagram on the Lid. Locate the FACTORY HID Relay's and or Fuses on the Lid. Now look down at the Fuse Box, and you tell me if those Spots in the Fuse Box have anything in them.

here is the answer to reinforce my first one....

The factory-HID applications on the GMT-800's (2003-2006 escalade only) use an old fashioned analog ballast with an external capacitor-charge starter. Those old types of starters require a LOT of power on startup (15-20 amps) than the newer digital high-frequency AC starters (like all aftermarket HID kits have).

THATS WHY there is an extra "HID" fuse provision in the GMT-800 UBEC's...

ben