Thinking of a 09, but am wondering if there is any drastic changes for the 2010 Duramax's. There are some better incentives showing up now. Would like to update before we are forced to buy a semi tractor to pull our campers and boats. Thanks.

I was told today " 09 will be a long build, prob through September, 2010 will be built until January 2010, or a tad longer if they have engines, than they will have a 30-60 day plant switch over to bulid 2011's. The 2011 truck will have the new emissions and the 6000K front axle, a stiffer frame and some minor other mods including sheet metal." I'm in the same boat, get a 09, wait for a 10 or wait and order an 11.

Hope they're still building them in 2010:rolleyes:, Guess I'll keep mine for awhile, it'll more than do the job for what I need it for. If you can get a great deal on an 09', I'd go for it.

The new emmisions standards for diesels are coming and you will have a extra tank to add urea. The price goes up and so does the cost to maintain. I bought a 09 just for this reason. If you dont know what urea is look it up on the internet. It will be a common word in the yrs. to come.

I was told today " 09 will be a long build, prob through September, 2010 will be built until January 2010, or a tad longer if they have engines, than they will have a 30-60 day plant switch over to bulid 2011's. The 2011 truck will have the new emissions and the 6000K front axle, a stiffer frame and some minor other mods including sheet metal." I'm in the same boat, get a 09, wait for a 10 or wait and order an 11.

Good info! Where'd you get this from, I haven't heard anything about a 6000K front axle. Is this mean they are going to a straight axle??

Is this mean they are going to a straight axle??

doubt it. Most likely a coil=sprung beefed up IFS.

ben

I will be highly suprised if the 09 models don't end up being a production run into 11, GM will be cutting number so far back on there truck builds they will have alo of surplus of older parts that need to be used. And I beleive Ben is correct they will be doing a beefed up verssion of the 1/2 ton suspension

I will be highly suprised if the 09 models don't end up being a production run into 11, GM will be cutting number so far back on there truck builds they will have alo of surplus of older parts that need to be used. And I beleive Ben is correct they will be doing a beefed up verssion of the 1/2 ton suspension

Ya I agree with you there, I think plans have change quite abit for the General......I wonder how the coil springs will make the truck sit/look??

Ya I agree with you there, I think plans have change quite abit for the General......I wonder how the coil springs will make the truck sit/look??

I dont see why they would make the truck look or sit any different, just that they will handle more weight on the front end.

Probably have a more controlled/progressive ride too, not as much torsion bar "float" at higher speeds like we are used to. (that doesnt bother me at all though, even with stock 110k mile shocks, I love the way my truck rides)

another big question is if they are going to rack and pinion steering like the half tons...?

ben

The current archaic front torsion bar set-up rated for 5k is fine by me. My new GMC rides far nicer than my 1/2 Tundra (both with Bilsteins) with coil springs did, and the weight capabilities of that pickup were fitting for something called a Toy.

Now the stock shocks are a disgrace- Bilsteins should be from the factory.

Any interior changes for 2010 or 2011?

Vented or cooled leather seats and more storage areas may sway me toward a new gm.

Im sure they will have cooled leather since the 08's have a fuse for that

Any interior changes for 2010 or 2011?

Vented or cooled leather seats and more storage areas may sway me toward a new gm.

The 2009 tahoes, escalades, etc all have heated and cooled seats, so it wouldnt take much to add them to the silverados/sierras

ben

We were on a road trip with our toy hauler, during the trip i got the go ahead to update the truck. I spoke with a dealer from gmc, he gave a lot of info, many co-workers have bought thier gmc's from this guy, he is very straight and not like a typical dealer.
early 2010: stock exhuast brake, will offer a short bed 1 ton, not much other changes.
Later 2010: after mandated emission standards, don't remember the date he gave, they will add the urea injection after the DPF, which will add money to the cost, around a couple thousand, urea tank should be big enough to follow oil change intervals.
He didn't say anything about 2011.

At work we drive fire engines that weigh 42000-50000 pounds, and the newer ones all have torsion bar front suspension. Even the 78000 lbs trucks have torsion bar. Just a side thought as to ? why they would change to springs to increase front capacity without changing to solid axle.

We(soon to be wife and i) visisted a chevy stealership today and test drove a 09 2500 LB, very nice, they wanted my 02 for trade and they wanted business bad, they won't be closing. I'm still driving the 02.

Still need to determine some things; color, 2500 vs 3500, gmc vs chev, long bed vs short.

Matt

We were on a road trip with our toy hauler, during the trip i got the go ahead to update the truck. I spoke with a dealer from gmc, he gave a lot of info, many co-workers have bought thier gmc's from this guy, he is very straight and not like a typical dealer.
early 2010: stock exhuast brake, will offer a short bed 1 ton, not much other changes.
Later 2010: after mandated emission standards, don't remember the date he gave, they will add the urea injection after the DPF, which will add money to the cost, around a couple thousand, urea tank should be big enough to follow oil change intervals.
He didn't say anything about 2011.

At work we drive fire engines that weigh 42000-50000 pounds, and the newer ones all have torsion bar front suspension. Even the 78000 lbs trucks have torsion bar. Just a side thought as to ? why they would change to springs to increase front capacity without changing to solid axle.

We(soon to be wife and i) visisted a chevy stealership today and test drove a 09 2500 LB, very nice, they wanted my 02 for trade and they wanted business bad, they won't be closing. I'm still driving the 02.

Still need to determine some things; color, 2500 vs 3500, gmc vs chev, long bed vs short.

Matt

Good info......let me help you decide....White or Black, CC, Z71, Chevy, short box!

Good info! Where'd you get this from, I haven't heard anything about a 6000K front axle. Is this mean they are going to a straight axle??
Beefed IFS. The picture I saw looked coil spring and t-bar, might be a track bar though, hard to tell.

I've been looking for a Left over 08 but choices are getting Slim!

I was wondering What the deal was with the "tabili track"on the 09's,i thought i read somewhere that you guys were saying to try and find an 08 because of this Stability Track thingy Not being good on Lifted trucks??? I have been looking for info on it but can't find Squat!

Yes Urea is another reason to go with the 09 or last year to NOT have Urea injection ,Just one more thing to worry about :~(

What do you guys Know about the Stabili Track ? How Can you get around it ?

Sorry not trying to get off topic,This info would have a Lot to do with making the correct choice for you!

Lead Foot -
Yeah I'm looking for the same thing, however I haven't heard of any way around it at the moment. I guess at worse case you turn it off everytime you turn on your truck. Is it a PITA...maybe but only takes seconds. It is hard finding an '08 in the exact configuation I want.

It is hard finding an '08 in the exact configuation I want.

Same Here!

The current archaic front torsion bar set-up rated for 5k is fine by me. My new GMC rides far nicer than my 1/2 Tundra (both with Bilsteins) with coil springs did, and the weight capabilities of that pickup were fitting for something called a Toy.

Now the stock shocks are a disgrace- Bilsteins should be from the factory.

I thought that all Z-71's have bilseins from the factory.

that was like 12 years ago when the factory Z-71's came with bilsteins. :(

After reading this, I'm really glad I got my '08!

I thought that all Z-71's have bilseins from the factory.


Last I checked 800's came with Bilstiens from the factory.

As for the stabilitrac EFI can eliminate it all together

Urea?

Is that from all of "O's" pi$$ing and moaning about the environment?

I think I'll just go buy me a gasser, kill the cat, and blow fumes up the prez's a$$!

D

Last I checked 800's came with Bilstiens from the factory.

Im almost positive they were just "gas charged", not actual bilsteins?? I could very well be wrong tho.


As for the stabilitrac EFI can eliminate it all together

No, efilive can not do that unfortunately. :( Just curious where did you read that it can do that?

ben

I'm a torsion bar guy myself. Coils eventually sag and face it torsions are more costly to build and I can count on one hand how many I ever saw broken. I broke one on my '70 Challenger in the early '80s since I jumped a snow bank with 10" of snow still on the car---snap . Leaves you a good bar though!

Around here in NJ you can't find a GMC or Chevy DMAX on any lot. Not an '08 or '09 nor anything. Guess they sent them to "truck areas".

I'm a torsion bar guy myself. Coils eventually sag and face it torsions are more costly to build and I can count on one hand how many I ever saw broken. I broke one on my '70 Challenger in the early '80s since I jumped a snow bank with 10" of snow still on the car---snap . Leaves you a good bar though!

Around here in NJ you can't find a GMC or Chevy DMAX on any lot. Not an '08 or '09 nor anything. Guess they sent them to "truck areas".

I live in a truck area and its hard to even find one around here, I don't think theres a whole lot out there

Im almost positive they were just "gas charged", not actual bilsteins?? I could very well be wrong tho.

I could also be wrong?



No, efilive can not do that unfortunately. :( Just curious where did you read that it can do that?

ben


unhook your steering wheel position sensor and your yaw sensor. You will get a CEL on the cluster but you can kill them with the EFI. I could also be wrong on this. i know if you unhook the sensor it will disable it, but the CEL does come on. I am not possitive if you can kill the CEL with EFI but I am assueming you can.

I thought that all Z-71's have bilseins from the factory.

They should. They actually come with Tenneco shocks which are made in Mexico and utterly worthless. Well, 5100s are good value and fit well with the rest of the truck which is quality.

unhook your steering wheel position sensor and your yaw sensor. You will get a CEL on the cluster but you can kill them with the EFI. I could also be wrong on this. i know if you unhook the sensor it will disable it, but the CEL does come on. I am not possitive if you can kill the CEL with EFI but I am assueming you can.

no you cant unfortunately. :(

And no, its not the check engine light that comes on. Its the brake and ABS lights. Stabilitrak has nothing to do with the ECM. Those lights are commanded on from the EBCM. Unless you 'hack' the EBCM or instrument cluster, the dinging and ABS/BRAKE lights and "SERVICE STABILITY SYS" in the DIC arent going to shut off.

Just make a simple relay/time delay circuit out of radio shack parts to actuate the "stabilitrak off" button on the instrument panel every time you turn the key on...its as easy as that...and you dont have any dinging, SERVICE STABILITY SYS messages, and your ABS wont be disabled.

ben

[quote=DURAtotheMAX;3328272]Im almost positive they were just "gas charged", not actual bilsteins?? I could very well be wrong tho.


Yep not actualy bilsteins. It was similar to the fords that had pseudo rancho shocks.

no you cant unfortunately. :(

And no, its not the check engine light that comes on. Its the brake and ABS lights. Stabilitrak has nothing to do with the ECM. Those lights are commanded on from the EBCM. Unless you 'hack' the EBCM or instrument cluster, the dinging and ABS/BRAKE lights and "SERVICE STABILITY SYS" in the DIC arent going to shut off.

Just make a simple relay/time delay circuit out of radio shack parts to actuate the "stabilitrak off" button on the instrument panel every time you turn the key on...its as easy as that...and you dont have any dinging, SERVICE STABILITY SYS messages, and your ABS wont be disabled.

ben


Ben,

Your almost correct. You should still have functional ABS with Steering Wheel Angle sensor unplugged. You may need to jumper the Can Bus depending on how the vehicle is wired.

Damn it Ben he beat me to it. ABS should still function. Your idea of the hotwirein it actaully sounds like a good idea, but I am an idoit with wires. I'll just stick to the LBZ and older trucks.

Ben,

Your almost correct. You should still have functional ABS with Steering Wheel Angle sensor unplugged. You may need to jumper the Can Bus depending on how the vehicle is wired.

ahh ok thanks for correcting me on that. :)

I just assumed if there was a problem with any EBCM-related function, it would disable EVERYTHING...I was not aware that it could disable only ESC while keeping the ABS active (for a ESC-only related fault such as steering wheel or yaw sensor). Makes sense though now that I think about it...no reason to disable ABS for a yaw sensor problem, for example..not like ABS needs that to function...

good to know

thanks
Ben

New LML Spied (http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/06/spied-gm-2011-heavy-duty-lml-duramax-diesel-engine.html)

GM to stay with 6-speed Allison, 8-speed was too costly.

Around 390 HP/700 lb-ft torque.

I was told today " 09 will be a long build, prob through September, 2010 will be built until January 2010, or a tad longer if they have engines, than they will have a 30-60 day plant switch over to bulid 2011's. The 2011 truck will have the new emissions and the 6000K front axle, a stiffer frame and some minor other mods including sheet metal." I'm in the same boat, get a 09, wait for a 10 or wait and order an 11.
A 6000k front axle that sounds like a straight axle they cant go wrong with an straight axle:D:D man i sure miss straight axle front end

It will NOT be a straight axle

I was hoping that they would use the 4.5 design of exhaust in and intake on the outside of the engine valley... guess not.

New LML Spied (http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/06/spied-gm-2011-heavy-duty-lml-duramax-diesel-engine.html)

Around 390 HP/700 lb-ft torque.

Here's the part that bugs me:

"The current Dodge Ram HD and its 6.7-liter Cummins (http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2009/02/first-look-2010-dodge-ram-2500-and-3500-heavy-duty-pickups.html) inline-six already meet 2010 emissions standards"

If Dodge Cummins already meets the 2010 standards without this Urea B.S. then who would possibly buy the Duramax??

Maybe because all the other stuff wrapped around that Cummins is junk? Just a guess.

There is also a rumor that this new engine will have a $4,500 price increase from what it is now.

Here's the part that bugs me:

If Dodge Cummins already meets the 2010 standards without this Urea B.S. then who would possibly buy the Duramax??

cause then they'd have to drive a dodge?

Here's the part that bugs me:

"The current Dodge Ram HD and its 6.7-liter Cummins (http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2009/02/first-look-2010-dodge-ram-2500-and-3500-heavy-duty-pickups.html) inline-six already meet 2010 emissions standards"

If Dodge Cummins already meets the 2010 standards without this Urea B.S. then who would possibly buy the Duramax??

Im not convinced.

here is the part everyone is forgetting/glossing over. Read the fine print. The 6.7 cummins meets 2010 emissions standards AT 350 HORSEPOWER.

I bet when they crank it up to "one up" the new ford and duramax diesels (which they will have to do, who would buy a 350hp truck over a 390hp one) they will cross the point of being able to meet 2010 standards without urea....

just my opinion.

ben

You Guys are Missing the Boat !
Did you really Buy a diesel due to the HP Numbers ???

Diesel is ALL about the Torque!!! And Cummins Gets 650 early in the RPM's and Holds it Longer than any other diesel motor!

Duramax which I really like is a peaker LOL It hits its 650 or now 660 at a certain RPM then drops off.... Thats why Cummins Makes a Better Tow pig IMHO....

And all you guys talking Crap about Dodge really Need to Look at the New Dodge, I Have and Drove It! That New 6 speed they have is Real Nice it shifted up and down really good at the right time!and "it" a 09 QC short bed 4x4 .turned around Really good.... It was also the Cleanest Truck i have ever Looked under well Put together!!!Very Little rust anywhere just a Little on the black steel Un-coated parts Like ALL trucks!

and before you Brand Me a "Dodge Guy" I'm NOT! I'm a Fan of the Cummins for sure,But I'm a Die hard Chevy guy!!! have owned Many Chevys Last three were 99 step side 4x4,traded for a 07 2500 Ex-cab 4x4 short bed Duramax....Traded for the Little Victory Red Regular cab short Box 4x4 i'm driving now while i wait for my Next Diesel ...Which will be soooooonnnnnnnn.........

I'm just saying Don't Judge the New Dodges By the Old Dodges,Dodge has Come a Long way..... IMHO
Cummins Is Top Diesel .... If "GM" had a Cummins,and Straight axle, they would have it ALL! IMHO

Torque is what You feel when you hit the Skinny Peddle :~).....

You Guys are Missing the Boat !
Did you really Buy a diesel due to the HP Numbers ???

Diesel is ALL about the Torque!!! And Cummins Gets 650 early in the RPM's and Holds it Longer than any other diesel motor!

Duramax which I really like is a peaker LOL It hits its 650 or now 660 at a certain RPM then drops off.... Thats why Cummins Makes a Better Tow pig IMHO....

And all you guys talking Crap about Dodge really Need to Look at the New Dodge, I Have and Drove It! That New 6 speed they have is Real Nice it shifted up and down really good at the right time!and "it" a 09 QC short bed 4x4 .turned around Really good.... It was also the Cleanest Truck i have ever Looked under well Put together!!!Very Little rust anywhere just a Little on the black steel Un-coated parts Like ALL trucks!

and before you Brand Me a "Dodge Guy" I'm NOT! I'm a Fan of the Cummins for sure,But I'm a Die hard Chevy guy!!! have owned Many Chevys Last three were 99 step side 4x4,traded for a 07 2500 Ex-cab 4x4 short bed Duramax....Traded for the Little Victory Red Regular cab short Box 4x4 i'm driving now while i wait for my Next Diesel ...Which will be soooooonnnnnnnn.........

I'm just saying Don't Judge the New Dodges By the Old Dodges,Dodge has Come a Long way..... IMHO
Cummins Is Top Diesel .... If "GM" had a Cummins,and Straight axle, they would have it ALL! IMHO

Torque is what You feel when you hit the Skinny Peddle :~).....

I agree with parts of this and the Cummins was the best motor. However, the current 6.7L is struggling big time with the DPF requirements-they cannot stay out of the shop. Also, my guess is the 6-speed they have will not have the longevity of the Allison- they just can't seem to get that right.

Furthermore, the Duramax LMM makes its 660lb/ft at 1600 rpm, the Powerstroke needs 2000rpm to make 650lb/ft- that's a huge difference. But yes, the the curve on the Cummins is very impressive but until they sought out their emission related issues it all counts for nought when you're stranded on the side of the road.

I have no blind affiliation with GM, Ford or Dodge. All offer their particular strengths and weaknesses, it's my opinion that at the current time GM's HD line has the most upside and offered the best option on the market for me.

doesn't what the truck looks like inside and out, and drives like have anything to do with it?

The GM would be so much nicer with the solid axle set up like the Dodge. We have a Dodge here at work (2008 SLT 4X4 Cummins) and it has some upsides. The engine builds huge torque right off the line, and the tranny seems to shift a little quicker on downshifts. I haven't towed with it yet, so I'll have to see how it does with a really big load. I also averages about 2mpg better than my D-max on daily driving. The interior is lacking the comforts, conviences, and quality of the GM. The sheetmetal seems really flimsy too. You can fit 35" tires on it stock:). It turns super sharp. We only have about 6,000 miles on it right now, so logeveity has yet to be tested. I read somewhere that Dodge was talking about getting out of the hosepower wars and shift their effort towards fuel economy and reliablity for the Diesels. Torque and economy should be the biggest selling points with Diesel trucks.

I agree with parts of this and the Cummins was the best motor. However, the current 6.7L is struggling big time with the DPF requirements-they cannot stay out of the shop. Also, my guess is the 6-speed they have will not have the longevity of the Allison- they just can't seem to get that right.

Furthermore, the Duramax LMM makes its 660lb/ft at 1600 rpm, the Powerstroke needs 2000rpm to make 650lb/ft- that's a huge difference. But yes, the the curve on the Cummins is very impressive but until they sought out their emission related issues it all counts for nought when you're stranded on the side of the road.

I have no blind affiliation with GM, Ford or Dodge. All offer their particular strengths and weaknesses, it's my opinion that at the current time GM's HD line has the most upside and offered the best option on the market for me.

Great Reply if i say so Myself :)
Dodge has two down sides i see mostly... The Exhaust after Abuse I mean treatment LOL and the Death Wobble.

They have the deletes now for the After treatment and have Upgraded front steering parts to deal with the Death wobble...

But I agree the GM has a Nicer Truck all around!

And I love that Steel Gray :cool: one of my favorite colors!

Ford ? That New Scorpion sounds Nice But i cant get past the Urea or the Looks of the new Body style :eek: The Fuel door looks like a freaking Breaker panel LOL and the Hood design :eek: well you get the Picture I don't care How many horses the Strap under the Hood !:D

Duratime Says...It turns super sharp.

Tell me about it My first turn with that new Dodge Made me say WOW Really I was Surprised how tight It turned around and with No tire hop at all....

But the Price :( it was a Plain Jane .....I told the Guy for that amount of money i would be sticking with my Chevy's......

My Chevy drives like a Sports car compared to the Dodge...But the Dodge was Nice don't get me wrong ,But you knew you were driving a Truck.

Torque and economy should be the biggest selling points with Diesel trucks.

AMEN!

The GM would be so much nicer with the solid axle set up like the Dodge.

I hope your not being serious. The HD GM trucks handle so much better then Dodges!! (leave the GM's suspension alone!!)

Moved to the new LML section...

I hope your not being serious. The HD GM trucks handle so much better then Dodges!! (leave the GM's suspension alone!!)
I disagree with this. I liked the way the Dodge drove. I'm not saying it is better, but I liked it. The reason why I like the solid axle is that I was able to lift the front almost 3" with a Kore Leveling Kit for $500.00 and easily fit 33x12.50 tires (I've read that 35s fit stock). It rides even better now. My truck rides good with what I have done to it, but the 285's is all I could fit without trimming. And that cost me like $800. I feel that the setup on this Dodge could handle more abuse than the GM. I'm a big fan of solid axles in heavy duty trucks. There is a lot of poeple on this site that feel the same way and have dropped over $10k into their rigs to get it. These new coil spring heavy duty trucks (Ford & Chevy) drive a lot nicer than they used to. I wish that GM would consider it. Maybe have all 3500's with solid front axles and the 2500's with IFS, and have a 3500srw option? I'm sure that would cost them a pretty penny:o:.

I'm with U Duratime!

Can i have my 3500 with a Standard or Short bed :~) thats the only Kick back about 3500's to me,i don't really care for the long Bed.....

I got a price of $16,000 From ORU I think it was for a solid axle kit ,Thats a Complete Kit,that did include front and rear and break lines ETC.... WOW :~0

[quote=Lead Foot;3349226]You Guys are Missing the Boat !
Did you really Buy a diesel due to the HP Numbers ???

Diesel is ALL about the Torque!!! And Cummins Gets 650 early in the RPM's and Holds it Longer than any other diesel motor!

quote]

Lead Foot, I thought that this was GM's number and that the D Max held 90% of its peak torque from 1600-3200 RPM. I know they used to own this talking point a couple of years back when I worked for them. This is dodge's number now? Are there any graphs to support this? I know if Jimmy is around, he'll show us the D Max graph.....after all, its his favorite!

I'm with U Duratime!

Can i have my 3500 with a Standard or Short bed :~) thats the only Kick back about 3500's to me,i don't really care for the long Bed.....

I got a price of $16,000 From ORU I think it was for a solid axle kit ,Thats a Complete Kit,that did include front and rear and break lines ETC.... WOW :~0

you do realize that a 3500 single rear wheel is pretty much the same thing as a 2500...right?

you do realize that a 3500 single rear wheel is pretty much the same thing as a 2500...right?
Ben is right on, I have 2 08 3500's, bigger tires and a 9900 GVW sticker, otherwise the same as my 2500's. Its a numbers game with the insurance co's and how they charge us to insure the trucks.....

SRW 3500 have an extra spring in the pack I thought?

SRW 3500 have an extra spring in the pack I thought?

yes, they do, along with 7" wide rims, and 265 tires. Other than that the 3500 SRW's are more or less identical to the 2500's. I know all the 3500SRW owners will disagree with me though. :D :p:

ben

There is also a rumor that this new engine will have a $4,500 price increase from what it is now.

$4500 worth of emissions goodies a good portion of us will yank off as soon as it hits the driveway ;)

I'm constantly amazed with all the GM guys here saying how much they love SFA and wish GM had it. I just don't get it. Can someone please point out the real world advantage, and if you say that you'll save $138 when installing 35" tires come on that's just silly.

rumor #1
SFA is more "heavy duty" - Well it seems to me that a torsion bar setup can be just as strong, I don't see any inherent dis-advantage here. SFA is old school. When color tv came out I imagine there were people saying "buy B/W it's more durable!" seriously? For me I'll take the smooth ride over bouncing all over the road in a dodge.

Rumor #2
GM's front end is prone to "wearing out parts" - Well lets see I guess there is at least something to this one. When you have moving parts under load there is going to be wear and tear. There is something of a trade-off for smooth steering and a "cadillac" ride. With proper maintenance and minimal abuse GM's current front end seems to hold up pretty well. If you have an 8" lift and bitch to GM about blowing out c/v axles, when you didn't lower your driveline, shame on you. I've worked on my share of dodges and after helping my friends change all their u/v joints in their dodge's driveline every 30k, I'd much rather change a pitman and an idler arm. I'm waiting for the 3 guys to tell me how they changed their front end parts in their chevy plow truck 31 times in 5 years...Do you think it could be the 18yo kid you hired to plow with your truck?

Ok, I'm done with the rant. Yeah I'm kinda biased towards GM, but i have an open mind and would like to hear others opinions on this, because after all this is all just my opinion. Everytime I drive a dodge or ford and I get back in my GMC I thank God I bought my truck. I do love it. I'd push my wife outta bed and make room for Delilah if I could fit her through the door.:) FWIW, I test drove another new Dodge and a Ford (I like the way the fords look, and the dodge interior seems bigger.) I was hoping I would like the Dodge because I could get a smokin' deal on an '09, but I couldn't do it. To me everything about the GM is better, smoother ride, quieter interior, and smoother shifts. (Dodge trans felt sloppy, IMHO)
So, could someone tell me what they like better about SFA?

I'm constantly amazed with all the GM guys here saying how much they love SFA and wish GM had it. I just don't get it. Can someone please point out the real world advantage, and if you say that you'll save $138 when installing 35" tires come on that's just silly.

rumor #1
SFA is more "heavy duty" - Well it seems to me that a torsion bar setup can be just as strong, I don't see any inherent dis-advantage here. SFA is old school. When color tv came out I imagine there were people saying "buy B/W it's more durable!" seriously? For me I'll take the smooth ride over bouncing all over the road in a dodge.

Rumor #2
GM's front end is prone to "wearing out parts" - Well lets see I guess there is at least something to this one. When you have moving parts under load there is going to be wear and tear. There is something of a trade-off for smooth steering and a "cadillac" ride. With proper maintenance and minimal abuse GM's current front end seems to hold up pretty well. If you have an 8" lift and bitch to GM about blowing out c/v axles, when you didn't lower your driveline, shame on you. I've worked on my share of dodges and after helping my friends change all their u/v joints in their dodge's driveline every 30k, I'd much rather change a pitman and an idler arm. I'm waiting for the 3 guys to tell me how they changed their front end parts in their chevy plow truck 31 times in 5 years...Do you think it could be the 18yo kid you hired to plow with your truck?

Ok, I'm done with the rant. Yeah I'm kinda biased towards GM, but i have an open mind and would like to hear others opinions on this, because after all this is all just my opinion. Everytime I drive a dodge or ford and I get back in my GMC I thank God I bought my truck. I do love it. I'd push my wife outta bed and make room for Delilah if I could fit her through the door.:) FWIW, I test drove another new Dodge and a Ford (I like the way the fords look, and the dodge interior seems bigger.) I was hoping I would like the Dodge because I could get a smokin' deal on an '09, but I couldn't do it. To me everything about the GM is better, smoother ride, quieter interior, and smoother shifts. (Dodge trans felt sloppy, IMHO)
So, could someone tell me what they like better about SFA?

:exactly:

I agree completely! I love my IFS. If I want to go offroading and beat on a vehicle, I go drive my purpose-built buggy around...

Maybe a 6in lift wont cost $2k now :D

Maybe I missed it, have there been any shots of the front suspension?

you do realize that a 3500 single rear wheel is pretty much the same thing as a 2500...right?

YES But my point with the 3500 is it only comes with a 8' Bed and i do not Like the way a Long bed truck Turns or Looks!

You have to Put 44's or bigger tires on a Long bed to even get it to look close to right Purportion wise TO ME!

But the Plus is 3500 is the only truck you can get in 09 with out "Stabili trak"

Why Only 3500 ??? I guess it has something to do with the length of the truck because in the 09 Book it says "Light Duty Models require V8 engines and 2500HD Models reqire 6'6" box Not available on 3500HD"

I was reading the Stabili Trak Sucks Thread LOL By Generalwar i think it was and they say it can be turned off BUT you have to turn the stupid thing off every time you cycle the Key or start the truck that does Stink!

I Like Large Tires at least 38" tires thats why I Dis like it and also why I favor the Straight Axle, easy to lift and have way more flex off road than IFS and if you off road much they/IFS have More wearable parts,SFA also Look Nicer/Cleaner....and i Know they run IFS on Desert Buggys ETC... But they are not Running Large Tires and they have People to help pay to keep those Buggys Going LOL I Don't...

I have a List of Pro's and Con's of IFS Vs SFA But I'm not writing that up!

I Agree with Most of What GMTECH Wrote but my Choice if i had it would be to buy my truck from the Factory with SFA ..... Then i would Install a 10 or 11" lift and be a Happy camper... To each their own!

as said Many Times If we all did our trucks the same it would be really Boring!

Example: i think 22 and 24" wheels are stupid.... BUT I like to see what others have done with their trucks and if they like the Larger wheels Thats Cool with Me...It's Your truck Let it show Your Personality!!!

While you can ! :~) The Goverment and the EPA is Gonna Take our Rights away to do what you want to your own truck, they already are!

YES But my point with the 3500 is it only comes with a 8' Bed and i do not Like the way a Long bed truck Turns or Looks!

so buy a 2500 and put airbags under the rear... then you have same truck... ;)

But the Plus is 3500 is the only truck you can get in 09 with out "Stabili trak"

Why Only 3500 ??? I guess it has something to do with the length of the truck because in the 09 Book it says "Light Duty Models require V8 engines and 2500HD Models reqire 6'6" box Not available on 3500HD"

You can turn it off...For 2010/2011, the 3500 SRW's will have it unless GM changes the GVWR from 9900 to >10,000lbs. For 2010/2011, IIRC the govt is mandating that all vehicles under 10,000lbs GVWR have some form of traction/stability control.



I Like Large Tires at least 38" tires

are you rock or mall crawling your 50,000 dollar 25 foot long diesel pickup truck? Personally, I dont see the point in neither. If I want to go offroad and play on the trail or rocks, I drive my old VW Beetle, its not 25 feet long, doesnt cost 50k, and will go just about anywhere without getting stuck.

thats why I Dis like it and also why I favor the Straight Axle, easy to lift and have way more flex off road than IFS and if you off road much they/IFS have More wearable parts,SFA also Look Nicer/Cleaner..

so buy a dodge and be done with it??

Im sorry, I still dont see the point in lifting these trucks more than 4", running tires bigger than 35's, and/or offroading these huge ass trucks...unless you are one of those people that considers blasting through that deep mud pit in your back yard at 45mph "offroading" :p: :)

just my opinion

ben

That is the good thing about forums, people get to share their opinion. It would make sense for GM to keep the IFS (although I don't like it). They are the only manufacurer to offer it in a 3/4 to 1 ton size. Customers that demand IFS will have to buy GMs.

[quote=Lead Foot;3349226]You Guys are Missing the Boat !
Did you really Buy a diesel due to the HP Numbers ???

Diesel is ALL about the Torque!!! And Cummins Gets 650 early in the RPM's and Holds it Longer than any other diesel motor!

quote]

Lead Foot, I thought that this was GM's number and that the D Max held 90% of its peak torque from 1600-3200 RPM. I know they used to own this talking point a couple of years back when I worked for them. This is dodge's number now? Are there any graphs to support this? I know if Jimmy is around, he'll show us the D Max graph.....after all, its his favorite!

Lead Foot, saw you posted again, was hoping you could back up your statement.

so buy a 2500 and put airbags under the rear... then you have same truck... ;)



You can turn it off...For 2010/2011, the 3500 SRW's will have it unless GM changes the GVWR from 9900 to >10,000lbs. For 2010/2011, IIRC the govt is mandating that all vehicles under 10,000lbs GVWR have some form of traction/stability control.





are you rock or mall crawling your 50,000 dollar 25 foot long diesel pickup truck? Personally, I dont see the point in neither. If I want to go offroad and play on the trail or rocks, I drive my old VW Beetle, its not 25 feet long, doesnt cost 50k, and will go just about anywhere without getting stuck.



so buy a dodge and be done with it??

Im sorry, I still dont see the point in lifting these trucks more than 4", running tires bigger than 35's, and/or offroading these huge ass trucks...unless you are one of those people that considers blasting through that deep mud pit in your back yard at 45mph "offroading" :p: :)

just my opinion

ben

That is the good thing about forums, people get to share their opinion. It would make sense for GM to keep the IFS (although I don't like it). They are the only manufacurer to offer it in a 3/4 to 1 ton size. Customers that demand IFS will have to buy GMs.
GM engineers need to get their head out of their a$$es and put back the straight axle in the 3/4 & 1 ton truck, mabye i should have bought a FERD or DODGE

GM engineers need to get their head out of their a$$es and put back the straight axle in the 3/4 & 1 ton truck, mabye i should have bought a FERD or DODGE

Maybe you should of.

GM engineers need to get their head out of their a$$es and put back the straight axle in the 3/4 & 1 ton truck, mabye i should have bought a FERD or DODGE

Yes, and some kidney belts to go along with those poor handling/primitive straight axles. I though straight axles went out with the Model T.:D

You guys who think solid axles are the shit, must be livin under a rock. Before we went all GM, we owned Ford and Dodge, they had straight axles. We had 3 fords break the hubs on the drivers side. We had our dodge develop the "Death Wobble" They both rode like a big can of donkey shit. Between My sis my Pop and me there have been 8 GM's through our dirveway. All have been drivin and workied within an inch of there life, NEVER ONCE did we have friont end issues. I have had on Wheel bearing go out in 300K on my 88 1 ton.

So please inlightin me, what the hell is great about the Solid axle?

As long as I can still run a straight pipe im happy :P Legally or illegaly I don't care!

:exactly: big block 88, could'nt have said it better. :D Mike

The 2009 tahoes, escalades, etc all have heated and cooled seats, so it wouldnt take much to add them to the silverados/sierras

ben
yeah but the SUV's (LTZ) have also had rear AC vents and seat heaters in back.... for the CC's HELL NO of course not. all the LTZ interior is the same but we STILL get less options on the same frickin trim level. THAT's WHY I'M PISSED LOL If you couldn't tell

Last I checked 800's came with Bilstiens from the factory.

As for the stabilitrac EFI can eliminate it all together

my 05 Z71 Burb did NOT come with bil's :( note to self need to get new shocks for that damn thing

yeah but the SUV's (LTZ) have also had rear AC vents and seat heaters in back.... for the CC's HELL NO of course not. all the LTZ interior is the same but we STILL get less options on the same frickin trim level. THAT's WHY I'M PISSED LOL If you couldn't tell

the trucks dont have rear AC because they dont have the frikkin room for the ducting, not because GM is trying to screw you out of some dollars. :rolleyes:

(go look at your suburban, it has a weirdly shaped C pillar on the passenger side, and a huge space in the rear quarter panel where the rear AC blower motor goes, now think about where there would be room for all that stuff in a crew cab pickup and maybe it will calm some of your anger towards GM...) ;)

ben

Ben, what are the frame changes?

Ben, what are the frame changes?

If you look closely, the lower control arms are different, torsion bar mounting is different, crossmember is different, rear spring mounts dont hang down below the frame, parking brake cable mounting is different, and cab mounts are different..

ben

If you look closely, the lower control arms are different, torsion bar mounting is different, crossmember is different, rear spring mounts dont hang down below the frame, parking brake cable mounting is different, and cab mounts are different..

ben

Based on which picture?

I'm looking at all the spy pics on Leftlane and can't tell what's different.

what frame are yall talking about?

the trucks dont have rear AC because they dont have the frikkin room for the ducting, not because GM is trying to screw you out of some dollars. :rolleyes:

(go look at your suburban, it has a weirdly shaped C pillar on the passenger side, and a huge space in the rear quarter panel where the rear AC blower motor goes, now think about where there would be room for all that stuff in a crew cab pickup and maybe it will calm some of your anger towards GM...) ;)

ben
OK well My point is this in the avalanch they have the ducting in the center console, NOT the headliner (at least that's what I remember seeing on one) that's ALL I'm asking for. Even the 800's had vents in the CC I believe.

800 did have vents in the center concil for the rear seat. And also under the seat

im glad i got my 06'! dpf 's ? urea? f@@k that! i'd go get an old chevy srtaight front axle truck and a 24 valve cummins (or a d-max) and make my own truck! i cant imagine what a new truck will cost in 2011 or 2012? it's really getting out of hand! all i know is urea goes on a hay field - not in a truck!

I agree there is no real advantage to a solid front axil...I have an 83 chevy to beat around muddin and stump jumping... Oh and my dad had three dodges other six years which equalled atleast five track bars and I found that you were constantly steering the damn things. I get in my GM and relax while driving, I don't need the white Knuckle grip unless I have to burn a ricer...haha Oh and until this past year my boss has been a ford guy and we have 6 F series at work that everytime i do an inspection i just plan on puttin a drag link end on.......

I was told today " 09 will be a long build, prob through September, 2010 will be built until January 2010, or a tad longer if they have engines, than they will have a 30-60 day plant switch over to bulid 2011's. The 2011 truck will have the new emissions and the 6000K front axle, a stiffer frame and some minor other mods including sheet metal." I'm in the same boat, get a 09, wait for a 10 or wait and order an 11.

Got a update Today, the 2010 bulid out date on the Dmax looks to be January 31, based on orders and production of the motor. Remember they can bulid out trucks they have motors for even after the emmisions change. 2011 model Plant switch over was to be complete by April but now looks to be pushed out until mid June. :(

It looks like I lucked out to find a 2008 Duramax Crew Cab LTZ. With 3074 miles so
qualified for Certified used. I got an extra 10,000 miles, 12 Months added to the Warrenty. My 2006 got just a little better mileage. But 2008 has more power, Pull 34'
5th wheel camper. Get 11 MPG towing. 18 solo.

...
Cummins Is Top Diesel .... If "GM" had a Cummins,and Straight axle, they would have it ALL! IMHO...

Bingo!

I have been saying this for years!

A Ford front end and Dodge powerplant is all our GM trucks need to be nearly perfect.

Cummins Is Top Diesel .... If "GM" had a Cummins,and Straight axle, they would have it ALL! IMHO

A Ford front end and Dodge powerplant is all our GM trucks need to be nearly perfect.

IMHO Cummins WAS top diesel. Seems the 6.7 is doing a lot to tear down the reputation the 5.9 had built up.

I'll keep my Duramax with its IFS thank you very much. :)

IMHO Cummins WAS top diesel. Seems the 6.7 is doing a lot to tear down the reputation the 5.9 had built up.

It's Not the 6.7 it's the after treatment they Put on them ... The EGR is Killing the Turbo's

The Guys that Do the deletes say the 6.7 is AWESOME! Fuel Mileage Comes up 3-4 MPG also with the deletes and a Good Tunner....

Bingo!

I have been saying this for years!

A Ford front end and Dodge powerplant is all our GM trucks need to be nearly perfect.

IMHO Cummins WAS top diesel. Seems the 6.7 is doing a lot to tear down the reputation the 5.9 had built up.

I'll keep my Duramax with its IFS thank you very much. :)

It's Not the 6.7 it's the after treatment they Put on them ... The EGR is Killing the Turbo's

The Guys that Do the deletes say the 6.7 is AWESOME! Fuel Mileage Comes up 3-4 MPG also with the deletes and a Good Tunner....
Hey fellas what about this combo C-7 7.4L Cat motor Allison tranny Ford straight front axle & GM body style.
Maybe in the furture GM would merge with CAT:cool:, I guess in my dreams:rolleyes:
IMO this would be the perfect GM truck

Hey fellas what about this combo C-7 7.4L Cat motor Allison tranny Ford straight front axle & GM body style.
Maybe in the furture GM would merge with CAT:cool:, I guess in my dreams:rolleyes:
IMO this would be the perfect GM truck

I've always been a GM guy, however, I'd always thought it would a tough decision to make if one of the others started putting Cats in their trucks. Running a trucking company for years, the only engines that never let us down were the Cats. Don't get me started on all the issues we had with the Cummins.

As for the front axle, but 3/4 ton rides so much smoother than my '91 1/2 solid front axle suburban did, FWIW.

Bingo!

I have been saying this for years!

A Ford front end and Dodge powerplant is all our GM trucks need to be nearly perfect.


"Dodge" powerplant huh??? You want to put a 4.7, 318 or 360 or V10 gasser in your GM truck? Afterall those are the only recent truck motors "Dodge" has made. Are you refering to the Cummins that Dodge has no part in building? I have owned straight axle trucks Dodge Ford and GM I will never own another one for one simple fact. It is OLD technology and just flat out dated. The ride sucks and I have had more issues keeping SFA trucks together than I ever had with IFS

"Dodge" powerplant huh??? You want to put a 4.7, 318 or 360 or V10 gasser in your GM truck? Afterall those are the only recent truck motors "Dodge" has made. Are you refering to the Cummins that Dodge has no part in building? I have owned straight axle trucks Dodge Ford and GM I will never own another one for one simple fact. It is OLD technology and just flat out dated. The ride sucks and I have had more issues keeping SFA trucks together than I ever had with IFS
BB 88 it may be old technology but its tried and true for example:

1. IFS too many moving parts
2. weak
3. Aluminum differential
4. Front tires bow out with snow attached
5. Ball joints move with upper & lower control arms
6. More difficult too lift

Need I say more driver

Straight axle
1. Fewer moving parts
2. A lot stronger
3. Iron differential
4. Front tires do not bow out with snow plow attached
5. King pins instead of B/S ball joints
6. Easier too lift (re arched leaf springs & a dropped pitman arm)

Thats all for now driver:D:D


GM are you listening pull your head out of your azzes do what FORD & DODGE did SFA in 3/4 & 1 ton trucks, IFS 1/2 tons. DUH :duh:

I've always been a GM guy, however, I'd always thought it would a tough decision to make if one of the others started putting Cats in their trucks. Running a trucking company for years, the only engines that never let us down were the Cats. Don't get me started on all the issues we had with the Cummins.

As for the front axle, but 3/4 ton rides so much smoother than my '91 1/2 solid front axle suburban did, FWIW.I all ready know I was an OTR truck driver. I would pick a CAT or a DETROIT over a cummins any day:cool:

I'm in the same boat, get a 09, wait for a 10 or wait and order an 11.

Me too, I planned to order a 10 as soon as they start taking ordrs. Whats taking so long....
Gene

For the love of God GM "Keep your head in your asses" and keep the tried a nd true IFS. I am sick of replaceing hubs on my dodge and ford SFA trucks.

For the love of God GM "Keep your head in your asses" and keep the tried a nd true IFS. I am sick of replaceing hubs on my dodge and ford SFA trucks.
I guess so BB-88 if you had auto locking hubs, I can agree with you on that auto locking hubs aint worth a s**t thats why that FORD I had thats in my garage had manual locking hubs never had a problem believe it or not

That was the auto locking hubs on the dodge and the manuals on our Ford died aswell. I guess the makers of all those off-road vehicles built for Baja with IFS and IRS built there trucks the weakest way possible. What about the Hummer (H1)? It's 4 wheel independent ours roll around wearing all there hock armor weighing twice as much as they were designed for. They are holdin up pretty good. And we don't excactly take it easy on them. I am still waiting for someone to give me a reason as to why the SFA is so "superior" over my IFS.

That was the auto locking hubs on the dodge and the manuals on our Ford died aswell. I guess the makers of all those off-road vehicles built for Baja with IFS and IRS built there trucks the weakest way possible. What about the Hummer (H1)? It's 4 wheel independent ours roll around wearing all there hock armor weighing twice as much as they were designed for. They are holdin up pretty good. And we don't excactly take it easy on them. I am still waiting for someone to give me a reason as to why the SFA is so "superior" over my IFS.

I gave some reason's on reply #90 :thumb: here is one more thing SFA looks alot better

None of those reason have been seen by me or my family.... I guess we just got all bad SFA's and the best built IFS trucks ever? never had a breakage to date on IFS, 1 wheel bearing on the 03. And our trucks are used to there full potential and then alot more. SFA is not worht my or GM's time it is obsolete engineering.

How many trucks have you seen pop that aluminum center section on the IFS trucks? By your way of thought you must also thin the aluminum head is junk. Maybe we should step back 20 years and go back to all cast iron engines, because alum will never take the punishment. The center section in my truck over here is aluminum I weigh 20K empty with full armor kit on. Well over 30K fully loaded. The aluminum seems to be up to the task to me.

None of those reason have been seen by me or my family.... I guess we just got all bad SFA's and the best built IFS trucks ever? never had a breakage to date on IFS, 1 wheel bearing on the 03. And our trucks are used to there full potential and then alot more. SFA is not worht my or GM's time it is obsolete engineering.

How many trucks have you seen pop that aluminum center section on the IFS trucks? By your way of thought you must also thin the aluminum head is junk. Maybe we should step back 20 years and go back to all cast iron engines, because alum will never take the punishment. The center section in my truck over here is aluminum I weigh 20K empty with full armor kit on. Well over 30K fully loaded. The aluminum seems to be up to the task to me.:blahblah: BB-88. I bet if Randy the Hack start a new pole SFA or IFS I bet SFA will win, Hmm that's sounds like a good idea watcha think BB-88:cool:

If SFA wins it will be from purely unknowlegdable people who have not owned both SFA and IFS GM's and SFA ford and Dodge trucks.

:thumb: I'm with you big block 88. :D Mike

:thumb: I'm with you big block 88. :D MikeYeah right Montana Mike look at this weeks pole):h):h

If SFA wins it will be from purely unknowlegdable people who have not owned both SFA and IFS GM's and SFA ford and Dodge trucks.

I'm with you. On 1 ton trucks and below I'd rather have IFS, and I'm what I guess you could call a Ford guy

I'm with you. On 1 ton trucks and below I'd rather have IFS, and I'm what I guess you could call a Ford guy
That's true, you need a Ford guy!!.. :rolleyes:

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