Hello,

I read two thing that made me ask this question. First on the purple thread it was discussed that the tow haul light on the dash needs to be wired into the copilot. A member added that a simple toggle to ground would sufice.

Second thing I read was on the diesel innovations website. They give instructions on how to tap the harness on the side of the tranny to ground out the torque converter lock up clutch. It did not specify what type of truck they were talking about. I assume Ford.

So can the wire on the Allison be grounded out via toggle? What would happen? Wonder if the truck would haul ass?

I would guess no faster than regular. Locking TC in 1st is a very bad idea, and the tcm will lock it in 2nd if you're in tow haul or i f you floor the skinny pedal

Someone a while ago here stated that locking the tranny in first was "hydraulically impossible."

It would be nice to be able to try this in sled pulling - 1st hi unlocked until you get rpms up and then lock that sucker. But I don't think it can be done.

Mike? Eric? Steve?

I believe the using a switch deal wasnt for an allison.

You can lock it up in first to I believe.

The TCC on the Ally can be locked in first gear with a Tech 2, I do it all the time. Trying to control TCC with a toggle switch will set codes.

BECAUSE --> The TCC apply solenoid is a Pulse Width Modulated signal. If somebody were to make a PWM box that would simulate the allison PWM signal waveform then you could lock it unlock at will. You would have to fool the TCM though so it would not know what you were up to.

The TCC on the Ally can be locked in first gear with a Tech 2, I do it all the time. Trying to control TCC with a toggle switch will set codes.
Doesn't set a code in mine.

Doesn't set a code in mine.
Juice
You have a special truck unlike anything below the border. We are not able to do these things. Why don't you enlighten us? Post the tech here for everyone and take responsibility in case it doesn't work. I do.

tomac has his done IIRC

Didn't say it could not be done. Question was can you control the TCC with a toggle switch. Seems like it is taking forever for the toggleswitch hookup instructions. Bet a lot of phone calls are being made right now.

Juice
You have a special truck unlike anything below the border. We are not able to do these things. Why don't you enlighten us? Post the tech here for everyone and take responsibility in case it doesn't work. I do.Actually the switch wasn't hooked up by me. From what I understand the information is in the ASG book.

No codes. Only one thing.... make absolutley sure you unlock the switch when coming to a stop..... the one thing you cannot do.

Oh, it was done in a parkinglot...... SP33D was actually watching Nathan install it (as was I for that matter)

Ask him if codes were thrown.

Only one thing.... make absolutley sure you unlock the switch when coming to a stop..... the one thing you cannot do.

What happens then, Juice? Mike?

Carnage?

What happens then, Juice? Mike?

Carnage?
Think of what happens when you do not disengage the clutch on a manual transmission vehicle in 1st gear and then try to make the vehicle come to a complete stop using the brakes. Bad hooey. Whole truck shakes, shudders... just like a manual transmission.:eek: and no the brakes are not strong enough to stall the motor.... it trys to 'compensate' the idle..... bad hooey... real bad.

Juice, you should have tried the old "farmers special" and just left it locked and shut the key off and let 'er crumple to a stop http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

I always laugh when I see that...sometimes they're half out the door and she's still rollin'...

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Might actually be handy for keeping it locked with a heavy trailer in 1st when slowing down eh?

Actually the switch wasn't hooked up by me. From what I understand the information is in the ASG book.

No codes. Only one thing.... make absolutley sure you unlock the switch when coming to a stop..... the one thing you cannot do.

Oh, it was done in a parkinglot...... SP33D was actually watching Nathan install it (as was I for that matter)

Ask him if codes were thrown.
HERE WE GO

:nopics:

Someone a while ago here stated that locking the tranny in first was "hydraulically impossible."

It would be nice to be able to try this in sled pulling - 1st hi unlocked until you get rpms up and then lock that sucker. But I don't think it can be done.

Mike? Eric? Steve?
Why would u want to try 1st hi when u can get 3 or 4 gears in low range, it will lug the motor and hence low boost.

It would be like the hand shakers and have to break the tires loose to get rpm up which requires more work to set up right.

Well, I'm only a wannabe puller, so forgive me for asking what might be dumb questions, but...

I was thinking if you could get rid of the shifting and run through one range, it might help on ground speed and traction. We have heard of people running 1st high, but without TC lock, you're duck soup.

I'll have to go re-read some of Tomac's stuff, but I think everyone is wanting the ground speed of 4th low, which I think is more like first hi....but I could be way wrong on that. Lemme do some checking.

Where are ya in OH? Our clan came from the Akron area.

Well I understand how he did it... Apply a voltage to wire 232 or (Red connector pin #32) and you will activate solenoid F which is the convertor lockup solenoid. BUT this circuit is PWM and by doing this you are not allowing the TCM to regulate the voltage or current to the F solenoid. This could result in burnng it up.

It has to be feeding current back to the TCM unless he put a diode inline with it.

Don't everybody go out and do this until I can test it.. AKA Don't blame me..

Where are ya in OH? Our clan came from the Akron area.
Mt.Vernon

Well I understand how he did it... Apply a voltage to wire 232 or (Red connector pin #32) and you will activate solenoid F which is the convertor lockup solenoid. BUT this circuit is PWM and by doing this you are not allowing the TCM to regulate the voltage or current to the F solenoid. This could result in burnng it up.

It has to be feeding current back to the TCM unless he put a diode inline with it.

Don't everybody go out and do this until I can test it.. AKA Don't blame me..
That is some good stuff right there.

Since it is PWM are you sure that the 32 wire does not need to be grounded rather then hit with an aply voltage?

That is some good stuff right there.

Since it is PWM are you sure that the 32 wire does not need to be grounded rather then hit with an aply voltage?
Mine is Grounded.
Make sure you have a good ground.:ro)

The TCC on the Ally can be locked in first gear with a Tech 2, I do it all the time. Trying to control TCC with a toggle switch will set codes.
If you look closely, you'll see that while the Tech 2 can command the TCC solenoid in 1st, it does not actually apply. The duty cycle will come up when commanded, but the slip speed stays the same. The fact that you can stand stationary in gear with it commanded is further evidence that locking in 1st is not possible.

There may be a way to alter hydraulic flow to get there, but I doubt it would be worth it...

So we're back to no-go, huh?

Juice, you said she's been locked, whaddupwitdat?

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif

If you're grounding it then it may complete the circuit with the solenoid's pwm signal from the TCM.. I'm gonna go try it.. Be back in a flash..

Will video be proof enough?

Let us know how it works. The PWM I am familar with modulates the ground. For example the voltage control on a factory returnless electric fuel pump. The ground is modulated to control voltage.

I'm calling bullsh!t. I got all kinds of codes when grounding 229 and 232. ABS & Brake system too.. No MIL but it set allison codes. It actually put my truck in limp home mode (3rd and reverse) and my damn scan tool won't clear the allison codes that are stored.

Hmm. what I'll do for this board :)

I measured 12 volts across the wire 232 to ground. Got pics.. I'll post later.

I'm calling bullsh!t.


:exactly:

So we're back to no-go, huh?

Juice, you said she's been locked, whaddupwitdat?

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif
Mine works fine. I better go look at where it is connected.

It may be possible externally, but I doubt it is in 1st gear. Typically the Tech 2 will kick you out if you do something that should not be done, so I have my doubts that TCC oil is available in 1st gear without modification.

So if it is possible externally, would that be the same as pushing in the towhaul button?

Yep

Ok.. Do not ground wire 232... This wire is the 12v source for the F solenoid (Tcc apply solenoid). It pops the 10 amp fuse in the driver side in cab fuse panel. That is the TCM ignition source. Hence the Limp home mode etc that I got when I grounded it.

Wire 229 is a brown wire on the red TCM connector. If you do ground it while in first range, you get a range inhibit. No dice.. Need a scanner to clear the range inhibit.

I didn't try it in any other ranges though.

Why would you want to use it in any other ranges if it is already going to lockup by itself?

Regardless, if you are just grounding wire 229 you are probably exceeding the F solenoids duty cycle. It is meant to be modulated to ground, not coupled to ground.

Don't try this if you don't know what you're doing, or have the tools to fix it, i.e. scan tool.


Furthermore after reviewing the hydraulic schematic for first range, I think that it isn't possible to lock it up in first.

To clarify, I'm not stating that it is possible, just NOT stating it to be impossible. I just doubt it is. Clear as mud??

To clarify, I'm not stating that it is possible, just NOT stating it to be impossible. I just doubt it is. Clear as mud??
Wow, John, that sounds like a Clintonism http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

"I did not have improper relations with Allison.":eek:

Ok.. Here's the deal.. If you ground wire 229, you can get TCC engagement in 2-5 ranges. It will however give you a range inhibit whenever you try to go to reverse or any other gear after using this "lockup switch" feature. Gives me a range inhibit everytime. I have to then go to park or neutral and clear the codes with the lockup off.

NOW Listen closely.. Grounding wire 229 with a switch greatly exceeds it's duty cycle, therefore I would not be suprised if it fails prematurely. Which would mean you will have to drop the pan and replace the solenoid. It will cost you around 50.00 each time you do this, considering the price of ATF and the solenoid itself.

I would definately NOT recommend this mod. Besides, Tow/Haul locks up quickly enough for most people anyways.

Regards,

Brayden

Actually the switch wasn't hooked up by me. From what I understand the information is in the ASG book.

No codes. Only one thing.... make absolutley sure you unlock the switch when coming to a stop..... the one thing you cannot do.

Oh, it was done in a parkinglot...... SP33D was actually watching Nathan install it (as was I for that matter)

Ask him if codes were thrown.


Think of what happens when you do not disengage the clutch on a manual transmission vehicle in 1st gear and then try to make the vehicle come to a complete stop using the brakes. Bad hooey. Whole truck shakes, shudders... just like a manual transmission.:eek: and no the brakes are not strong enough to stall the motor.... it trys to 'compensate' the idle..... bad hooey... real bad.

So then Juice must have witnessed another top secret happening that he can comment about, but cannot elaborate on the details :rolleyes:

Maybe it was a DDT trans thing???

I can drag the motor down in 2nd gear as far as I want to with the brakes, but when it shifts down to first the convertor unlocks automatically.

John, go scotchlock a wire onto 229 (brown on my 04.5 LLY) and see if you get the same results. RED connector.

So then Juice must have witnessed another top secret happening that he can comment about, but cannot elaborate on the details :rolleyes:

Maybe it was a DDT trans thing???
Maybe. The only thing I really noticed with the addition of the switch was firm... ahem *FIRM* locked to locked shifts in 'normal' trans mode.

Seems that the T/H mode actually drops line pressures between shifts by 25-35 psi.

In contrast to regular mode where pressures are higher, the subsequent shifts are firm with the switch engaged.

I really have not played with it too much since install. Maybe if Mtomac is on he can comment further.

I can drag the motor down in 2nd gear as far as I want to with the brakes, but when it shifts down to first the convertor unlocks automatically.

John, go scotchlock a wire onto 229 (brown on my 04.5 LLY) and see if you get the same results. RED connector.Sorry, I made the mistake of scotchlocking my TCM wires for the the Banks 6 gun. I'm done scotchlocking.

I actually did the ATS speed sensor deal too but soldered the wires back together. My boost tap for the ATS is not scotchlocked though, and will not be, I have a jumper harness built specifically for this.

I've seen same results with the Tech 2...

Maybe. The only thing I really noticed with the addition of the switch was firm... ahem *FIRM* locked to locked shifts in 'normal' trans mode.

Seems that the T/H mode actually drops line pressures between shifts by 25-35 psi.

In contrast to regular mode where pressures are higher, the subsequent shifts are firm with the switch engaged.

When the converter is locked line pressure is dropped to ~155psi from the normal ~250psi. So if you run the converter locked on up shift you are running less pressure than stock. If you look at how the stock system works you will see the converter unlock between shifts to soften the shift. The pressure changes of 25 - 35 psi are the trim valves doing there job engaging the clutch packs. I would not recommend running a lockup switch just for these reasons, but there are more.

When the converter is locked line pressure is dropped to ~155psi from the normal ~250psi. So if you run the converter locked on up shift you are running less pressure than stock. If you look at how the stock system works you will see the converter unlock between shifts to soften the shift. The pressure changes of 25 - 35 psi are the trim valves doing there job engaging the clutch packs. I would not recommend running a lockup switch just for these reasons, but there are more.so if you have the stock tranny and are trying to save some tranny life do you recomend not running it in tow haul mode??

When the converter is locked line pressure is dropped to ~155psi from the normal ~250psi. So if you run the converter locked on up shift you are running less pressure than stock. If you look at how the stock system works you will see the converter unlock between shifts to soften the shift. The pressure changes of 25 - 35 psi are the trim valves doing there job engaging the clutch packs. I would not recommend running a lockup switch just for these reasons, but there are more.
I do think there might possibly be a danger of shattering an inputshaft as well.

Haven't really used it much since it was put in... there is no use for it daily driving IMHO unless you wanted to smoke someone really bad!;)

Even using an Ebrake, the allison in TH mode would stay locked in gear, so i suppose the only benefit of a switch would be drag racing in normal mode with higher pressures???????

Yeah I hate scotchlocks too, but I didn't have a couple spare 32 pin weatherpacks to
make a jumper harness with.

What's this ATS speed sensor mod you speak of John?

so if you have the stock tranny and are trying to save some tranny life do you recomend not running it in tow haul mode??
That all depends on how much power you are putting through it. If your stock run either mode. If your running big power your on borrowed time.

Yeah I hate scotchlocks too, but I didn't have a couple spare 32 pin weatherpacks to
make a jumper harness with.

What's this ATS speed sensor mod you speak of John?
The ATS Copilot has a speed sensor fanaggler thingamajiggy in it that as I understand limits the speed sensor "counts" to allow higher top speeds. Since the introdution, most every tuner mfr has come with speed limit increase potential in their device so it is no longer needed.