20 miles west of Lakeview Oregon in the Freemont National Forrest,10 miles to the nearest person, no cell service. I was turning around from a snow blocked road and got buried in a mud bog. Sheriff Dept and Forrest Service Law Enforcement showed up 3 hours later and winched me out.

Thanks Guys:ro) :ro) :ro)

OnStar has always been great with us. Sounds like they should pick you, for a commercial.

OnStar was a major reason why we buy GM products.

If there was no cell service, then how did you get on the horn with OnStar? Maybe you should complain to your cell carrier and tell them to get on the ball (i.e., expand coverage) or you'll switch to 'whoever it is that handles OnStar's cellular system.' ;)

On that note, what is going to happen when trucks swap over to the new OnStar system? It is digital, like your cell phone, so coverage will once again be an issue like it was with analog cell phones 15 years ago. :rant:

If there was no cell service, then how did you get on the horn with OnStar? Maybe you should complain to your cell carrier and tell them to get on the ball (i.e., expand coverage) or you'll switch to 'whoever it is that handles OnStar's cellular system.' ;)

On that note, what is going to happen when trucks swap over to the new OnStar system? It is digital, like your cell phone, so coverage will once again be an issue like it was with analog cell phones 15 years ago. :rant:

40 watt amplifier and a bigger antenna Like anything else - more power!

The OnStar system is a 3 watt analog transmitter/receiver where our handheld units are all .6 of a watt. Conceivably he could be on Verizon's handheld digital system and not get reception where the 3 watt analog receiver does. BTW, OnStar uses all of the Nation's CDMA signal which for the most part is Verizon.

4 Friends of mine were hunting in Wyoming.They said none of them had cell service, but the On-Star worked fine. I was told by dealer that On-Star has a 3 watt system (like the old bag type phones) where normal flip phones etc .have less than a watt. I've always known this about the cell phones but don't really know for sure about On-Star. Sounds like it is more powerful.

All of these transmitters are analog. There is no such thing as a digital transmitter - yet, just digital signals. The transmitter is analog. The only thing that comes close to a digital signal is Morse code on sideband because the transmitter is just sending a digital tone with no carrier. When the tone is transmitted the signal is transmitted hence it is a true digital signal. All this other stuff uses carrier based digital transmissions.

Reasons like that are why I wanted Onstar in my truck... Being a much more powerful transciever with a much better antenna it will get signal where normal cell phones won't. All those who hate it, that's their opinion. I for one want to keep it.

Yeah, but Onstar ruins those really good stories you have once you've had to walk long distances, hitchhike, beg, steal, borrow, etc.

Onstar cuts down on creativity--no more MacGuyver vehicle fixes.:D

My concern is that since Onstar is an analog system what will happen in a year or so when those signals are no longer available. I thought I read somewhere on the Onstar website that only SOME of the older (03 and older) systems will work.

I have a question to all the tech gurus out there. If onstar can do a diagnostic of the vehicle if there is a problem, then in theory if you have a perf module, edge, VA, Bullydog, etc. they can detect it on the diagnostic and note it in your service blog. Do you take it off before you call onstar? A module like edge can be easily unplugged, but what about modules like predator, where it is like a reflash? I'm assuming most of you do not drive around with the modules in the truck all the time. Just a curious question.

I have a question to all the tech gurus out there. If onstar can do a diagnostic of the vehicle if there is a problem, then in theory if you have a perf module, edge, VA, Bullydog, etc. they can detect it on the diagnostic and note it in your service blog. Do you take it off before you call onstar? A module like edge can be easily unplugged, but what about modules like predator, where it is like a reflash? I'm assuming most of you do not drive around with the modules in the truck all the time. Just a curious question.I'm not an expert, but I doubt they could detect a box. I don't think their diagnostic abilities are too in-depth. I don't think they can do too much more than read DTC's and if the Predator is anything like the SCT performance tune I have in my carm there isn't really any way to tell it's there excelt for the increast power.

I would subscribe to it if I could carry my truck around in my back pocket or on my belt.

You can get the same power for your cell phone by buying a plug in antenna. Lots of people do that around here where cell coverage sucks, and it works really well. The best one I have seen was with a mount for the hands free deal for the phone too, so you can just plug your phone into it when you are in the truck and have more power and then just pull it out when you get out of the truck.

Also I am sure I can walk 10 miles in less than 3 hours if that was needed. Maybe just the nearest tall hill would have gotten cell service. In the mountains here I can usually get my phone to work on the higher parts. I am just cheap I guess, I would rather not pay for another phone that I use once a year when I already have a cell phone. Plus the cell is easier to turn off when I don't want to be tracked. Not that it takes long to unplug the onstar either though.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20837

That sort of deal is what I was talking about. Handy. For $35 it's pretty cheap.

Also I am sure I can walk 10 miles in less than 3 hours if that was needed. Maybe just the nearest tall hill would have gotten cell service. In the mountains here I can usually get my phone to work on the higher parts. I am just cheap I guess, I would rather not pay for another phone that I use once a year when I already have a cell phone. Plus the cell is easier to turn off when I don't want to be tracked. Not that it takes long to unplug the onstar either though.
Well I'm thankful for it. It's the only way I can reach McRat...Him and cell phones don't get along :badidea: I am the opposite he tells everyone mines surgically attached :eek: :lol:

I never leave home or go anywhere without my cell phone. We have 5 tractors, 5 trucks, assorted pickups and a couple four wheelers, so I need to be able to communicate from whatever I am in. We got a family plan back before they were popular so we had unlimited minutes between cells because they are so handy when we are out of cb range. The ability to call the fertilizer place or parts place or whatever from the tractor is incredibly handy.

There are three predominant methods of encoding a transmission signal. Amplitude modulation (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-a.htm#AM')) (AM), and frequency modulation (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-f.htm#FM')) (FM) are both analog modulation schemes. The third method is digital (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-d.htm#Digital')) modulation. The Table 1 (http://www.fiber-optics.info/articles/analog-v-digital.htm#Table_1#Table_1) outlines the basic characteristics of the three modulation schemes.
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=530 border=2><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle width=530 colSpan=4>Table 1 - Comparison of AM, FM, and Digital Encoding Techniques</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle width=134 bgColor=#d9f2ff>Parameter



</TD><TD align=middle width=132 bgColor=#d9f2ff>AM</TD><TD align=middle width=132 bgColor=#d9f2ff>FM</TD><TD align=middle width=132 bgColor=#d9f2ff>Digital</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left width=134>Signal-to-Noise Ratio (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-s.htm#SNR'))</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Low-to-Moderate</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Moderate-High</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>High</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left width=134>Performance vs. Attenuation (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-a.htm#Attenuation'))</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Sensitive</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Tolerant</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Invariant</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left width=134>Transmitter Cost</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Moderate-High</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Moderate</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>High</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left width=134>Receiver Cost</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Moderate</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Moderate-High</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>High</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left width=134>Receiver Gain Adjustment</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Often Required</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Not Required</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Not Required</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left width=134>Installation</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Adjustments Requires</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>No Adjustments Required</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>No Adjustments Required</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left width=134>Multichannel Capabilities</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Require High Linearity (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-l.htm#Linearity')) Optics</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Fewer Channels</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Good</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left width=134>Performance Over Time</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Moderate</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Excellent</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Excellent</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left width=134>Environmental Factors</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Moderate</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Excellent</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left width=132>Excellent</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>AM (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/articles/AM-modulation.htm')), FM (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/articles/FM-modulation.htm')), and digital (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/articles/digital-modulation.htm')) modulation are described in detail in other sections of this web site. One key difference between analog and digital transmission involves the bandwidth (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-b.htm#Bandwidth')), or transmission capacity required for both schemes. Analog signals require much less bandwidth, only about 4.5 MHz with a 143.2 Mb/s data rate. for the average NTSC (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-n.htm#NTSC')) video signal. By comparison, some digital video transmission standards require as much as 74.25 MHz with a data rate of 1485 Mb/s. Advances in single-mode optical fiber (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-s.htm#SM_fiber')) make these higher rates more accessible for longer distances. Copper coax fails to perform at these data rates. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Another difference between analog and digital transmission deals with the hardware’s ability to recover the transmitted signal. Analog modulation, which is continuously variable by nature, can often require adjustment at the receiver end in order to reconstruct the transmitted signal. Digital transmission, however, because it uses only 1’s and 0’s to encode the signal, offers a simpler means of reconstructing the signal. Both types of modulation can incorporate error detecting and error correcting information to the transmitted signal. However, the latest trend in signal transmission is forward error correcting (FEC) (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-f.htm#FEC')). This scheme, which uses binary (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-b.htm#Binary')) numbers, is suited to digital transmission. Extra bits (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-b.htm#Bit')) of information are incorporated into the digital signal, allowing any transmission errors to be corrected at the receive end.<o:p></o:p>

A third important difference relates to the cost of analog transmission links compared to digital transmission links. Because the circuitry required for digital transmission is more complex, the cost is often much higher. In short distance applications, analog modulation will almost always be the most cost-effective system to specify. However, today’s demand for high speed Internet (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-ijk.htm#Internet')), video-on-demand (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-uv.htm#Video-on-Demand')), videoconferencing (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-uv.htm#Videoconferenceing')), and "pushed" (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/glossary-pq.htm#Push')) data directly to our home computers requires moderate to long-distance transmission systems to specify digital equipment. And as is the case with any form of technology, greater demand will lead to mass production, inevitably driving the cost of digital systems down. However, it will always be true that the decision to specify one type of modulation over the other involves the same system design considerations (http://javascript<b></b>:n_window('http://www.fiber-optics.info/articles/system-design.htm');).

Underlined words are links. To view links visit: http://www.fiber-optics.info/articles/analog-v-digital.htm (http://www.fiber-optics.info/articles/analog-v-digital.htm)

There are digital transmitters. They simply use a different form of modulation of the RF (radio frequency) This is why digital cellular phones' batteries last 4 times as long, before having to be recharged, as the older analog cellular phones. The modulation of the RF takes less power. Just my .02 cents worth.


All of these transmitters are analog. There is no such thing as a digital transmitter - yet, just digital signals. The transmitter is analog. The only thing that comes close to a digital signal is Morse code on sideband because the transmitter is just sending a digital tone with no carrier. When the tone is transmitted the signal is transmitted hence it is a true digital signal. All this other stuff uses carrier based digital transmissions.

I would subscribe to it if I could carry my truck around in my back pocket or on my belt.


):h

==================================


All those lonely Onstar operators, their listening to you, when you least expect it :eek:

benburke,

That's more like $2.00 worth! :)

Not sure if everyone knows this or not but you can sign up with Verizon and tie your OnStar phone into one of their family share plans. Personally I use Nextel for my business and personal needs but I really like the cell phone setup in the truck but the pre-paid minutes and time constraints they put on those minutes were cost prohibitive. Now I have 500 minutes that I can use in my truck every month, I think I'm paying $50 or so a month. You also get a handheld phone from Verizon too though I never use it but do keep it in the truck for out of truck experiences.

The one thing I wasn't happy with is that once you switch over to that method, you lose the Concierge service from OnStar.

Now if only Onstar would give us a handset so we could have PRIVATE calls.....:mad:

That or a docking cradle to hook a handheld phone into it.

On the Verizon/Onstar mingle, this is only available in some markets.

........Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one. --Thomas Jefferson

"I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six." Not to offend anybody but this statement really only fits to the time it was intended for (1800..).

Countries who have very strict gun laws are MUCH more safe to live in - thats just a fact! :offtopic:

Buts thats another story and has nothing to do with the topic....

I am happy with my Onstar as well, especially since the wife drives the truck mostly and she can reach the right person to help very easily...

Mahalkita

Those countries could be taken over by a well armed Boy Scout Troup. No one could ever do the same here

benburk

Thank you for the outstanding information, very informative.

I would like to add a couple of things if I may.

As I understand also, another factor it transmission and reception is related to the frequency (or wavelength) of the RF transmission. Cell Phones run on a Micro-wave frequency, meaning that the wavelength is very (ripple like) tight. Whenever you have a tight wavelength you have better clairity and less degradation due to outside interference. This does however come at a price. Shorter wavelength requires more power to transmit over longer distances. Think of your microwave at home (sounds silly, but works on similar frequencies) the more wattage you have the faster it works right. That just means the wavelength is moving faster.

Now for comparison, I am sure everyone has heard of shortwave radio. If you haven't shortwave radios work on a very loose (rolling like) wavelength which due to it's wavelength requires very little power to go very long distances. An example is someone in california talking to someone in austraila. This is possible because that shorter wavelength is able to follow the contour of the earth and since it requires less power to transmit these ranges, well I think you get the idea. Drawbacks to shortwave is there is more chance of degradation of the signal, and they require very large antenas.

Now, with that in mind, back to the origonal topic. The differences between analog and digital cell phones, in addition to the information already given, is also frequency. Analog cell phones work on a lower frequency than digital cell phones, with the addition of greater power as already indicated, this gives them greater range.

Additionally, digital cell phones have longer battery life than analog cell phones because of the increased power of analog, and also due to the fact that analog cell phones actively search for the signal. Whereas digital cell phones passivly search for a signal and it is the cell transmission tower which activly sends a signal out. If any of you have ever had a digital cell phone that has a flashing indicator light on it, think of that flashing as the passive searching. Every flash is the cell looking for a transmission from the transmitter. Analog cell phones work exactly opposite of digital. The analog cell phone sends the active signal and the transmission tower passivly listens for that signal.

Ok, now that we have gotten WAAAAAAYYYYY off track of the question I hope that this helps explain why you had a signal with On-Star when you didn't have a signal with your cell phone.

Also as a disclaimer, I am not a radio expert, but I have seeked answers to the very sames question before. Should anyone out there have more knowledge than I please chime in and give us the real scoup.

John

Aznap,

This is true only if they have a digital OnStar system in their vehicle. Verizon can't (or won't) combine the phones if they have the older analog OnStar systems.

Before I traded my 2004 gas Silverado for my 2005 diesel, I tried to do this. My 2004 had the older analog OnStar system.

benburke,

That's more like $2.00 worth! :)

Not sure if everyone knows this or not but you can sign up with Verizon and tie your OnStar phone into one of their family share plans. Personally I use Nextel for my business and personal needs but I really like the cell phone setup in the truck but the pre-paid minutes and time constraints they put on those minutes were cost prohibitive. Now I have 500 minutes that I can use in my truck every month, I think I'm paying $50 or so a month. You also get a handheld phone from Verizon too though I never use it but do keep it in the truck for out of truck experiences.

The one thing I wasn't happy with is that once you switch over to that method, you lose the Concierge service from OnStar.

Not to offend anybody but this statement really only fits to the time it was intended for (1800..).

Countries who have very strict gun laws are MUCH more safe to live in - thats just a fact! :offtopic:

Buts thats another story and has nothing to do with the topic....

I am happy with my Onstar as well, especially since the wife drives the truck mostly and she can reach the right person to help very easily...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/offtopic.gif Again

We might have to start a thread just for this becasue you are WAY off base on your "assesment".

Safe My @$$. Why is it after decades (or centuries) of the Bobbies (Police) in England being armed only with a nightstick, that now in recent years they are armed with firearms? Could it be that because the Law abiding sheep don't have guns, but the CRIMINALS STILL DO, the CRIMINALS are bolder than they are in places such as Vermont, Florida or Texas that allow ownership and carry of firearms so they never know who might be able to stop them?

Look at England and Austrailia who have BANNED guns. Home invasions and other crimes are way up from what they used to be. Look at Washington DC's per capita crime rate compared to Vermont or Florida. Every place that allows Concield carry has a lower per capita crime rate than those that do not allow carry. It's all out there in black and white.

There is currently a bill (H.R. 3193) to REPEAL the draconian gun laws in DC. Any guesses as to why?

ETA: WAIT! Strict gun laws DO make the country safer.... FOR THE CRIMINALS!

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rant.gif Off.

John,

Your information is correct, sir.
For a complete explanation of the frequency spectrum, you may want to visit this pdf file:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.pdf

Ben
benburk

Thank you for the outstanding information, very informative.

I would like to add a couple of things if I may.

As I understand also, another factor it transmission and reception is related to the frequency (or wavelength) of the RF transmission. Cell Phones run on a Micro-wave frequency, meaning that the wavelength is very (ripple like) tight. Whenever you have a tight wavelength you have better clairity and less degradation due to outside interference. This does however come at a price. Shorter wavelength requires more power to transmit over longer distances. Think of your microwave at home (sounds silly, but works on similar frequencies) the more wattage you have the faster it works right. That just means the wavelength is moving faster.

Now for comparison, I am sure everyone has heard of shortwave radio. If you haven't shortwave radios work on a very loose (rolling like) wavelength which due to it's wavelength requires very little power to go very long distances. An example is someone in california talking to someone in austraila. This is possible because that shorter wavelength is able to follow the contour of the earth and since it requires less power to transmit these ranges, well I think you get the idea. Drawbacks to shortwave is there is more chance of degradation of the signal, and they require very large antenas.

Now, with that in mind, back to the origonal topic. The differences between analog and digital cell phones, in addition to the information already given, is also frequency. Analog cell phones work on a lower frequency than digital cell phones, with the addition of greater power as already indicated, this gives them greater range.

Additionally, digital cell phones have longer battery life than analog cell phones because of the increased power of analog, and also due to the fact that analog cell phones actively search for the signal. Whereas digital cell phones passivly search for a signal and it is the cell transmission tower which activly sends a signal out. If any of you have ever had a digital cell phone that has a flashing indicator light on it, think of that flashing as the passive searching. Every flash is the cell looking for a transmission from the transmitter. Analog cell phones work exactly opposite of digital. The analog cell phone sends the active signal and the transmission tower passivly listens for that signal.

Ok, now that we have gotten WAAAAAAYYYYY off track of the question I hope that this helps explain why you had a signal with On-Star when you didn't have a signal with your cell phone.

Also as a disclaimer, I am not a radio expert, but I have seeked answers to the very sames question before. Should anyone out there have more knowledge than I please chime in and give us the real scoup.

John

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/offtopic.gif Again

We might have to start a thread just for this becasue you are WAY off base on your "assesment".

Safe My @$$. Why is it after decades (or centuries) of the Bobbies (Police) in England being armed only with a nightstick, that now in recent years they are armed with firearms? Could it be that because the Law abiding sheep don't have guns, but the CRIMINALS STILL DO, the CRIMINALS are bolder than they are in places such as Vermont, Florida or Texas that allow ownership and carry of firearms so they never know who might be able to stop them?

Look at England and Austrailia who have BANNED guns. Home invasions and other crimes are way up from what they used to be. Look at Washington DC's per capita crime rate compared to Vermont or Florida. Every place that allows Concield carry has a lower per capita crime rate than those that do not allow carry. It's all out there in black and white.

There is currently a bill (H.R. 3193) to REPEAL the draconian gun laws in DC. Any guesses as to why?

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rant.gif Off.
Amen Cougar. I'll jump in should this become a separate thread (in respect for keeping on topic).

Countries who have very strict gun laws are MUCH more safe to live in - thats just a fact!

Negatory honcho. But let's start a new thread rather than hijack this one.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=559287

On Star is great 95 per cent of the time. We have used it to report accidents that have occurred just before our arrival on the scene. It seems to be great in urban and semi rural areas and on the inter-state system. In some rural areas and in what you might call the "out back" it doesn't cut the mustard. Been out videoing cattle for TV auction and tried the system. No Go. Once out of cell-phone range it's dead.

HMMMM, and all this time I thought that onstar was satallite not like a cell phone.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20837

That sort of deal is what I was talking about. Handy. For $35 it's pretty cheap.
NAR,

I use one of these external whips on my car & truck, and yes they do help because you are not trying to pass the signal through the steel & glass of your vehicle. However, they do not "boost" your signal. You would have the same reception if you stepped out of your car with the cell phone.

They do sell signal boost amplifiers that you can mount in your vehicle, but they sell for something like $300-500. These amplifiers will actually boost your signal. But hey, for $35, the external whip is most definitely helpful.

Regarding On-Star, I always thought that it transmitted via satellite? Guess I was way off on that one...

They use a satellite for vechile tracking. But your conversation whether it be with one of your friends or an onstar rep. is all celluar. The celluar signal is much more effective than the satellite(on a cloudy day you are screwed) kinda like the XM it only works when you are away from buildings and trees cliffs and that sorta of thing.
Does anyone know if the 2004.5 system is digital??

They use a satellite for vechile tracking. Yea, and thats only if the iginition is on, or at least cycled... My buds dmax(the one missing in my sig) had onstar and when he contacted them to tell em that it was gone and to track it, they said sorry only works upto 48hrs after you turn the key off...WTF, why not have something like that work all the time...I cant believe that it cant be wired up so as to not drain your batteries or anything...