I've spent the last couple days scouring the web, looking for hardware, software and mostly information about programming PROMs for our beloved 6.5s.

For software, I found several vendors, including a couple of free ones, but none specifically written with the 6.5, or any other diesel in mind. They all have stuff like spark curve and you know, gasoline crap. But should be generically useful for what I want to do.

For hardware, I found LOTS AND LOTS of goodies. Programmer and not too expensive, and media is dirt cheap. I found a couple devices called 'PROM Emulators', that are basically a software supported PROM, that lets you change your programming ON THE FLY. Anybody here seen the Banks 6-gun setup, yeah, thats what I'm talking about ;)

Information is the only thing I'm really hurting to find, and figuring it all out on my own will be very time staking. But I 'think' there's enough to atleast get started with it.

Anyway, what I want to know is if anybody here has any experience or information they'd be willing to share about programming or PROMs or ECMs in general. I really think if we pool together the guys we have here, we could all end up with our own 'custom tuned' PROMs, and eventually, we might work up to OBDII PCMs and do something similair.

I really just want to know if anyone here is interested, I'm not asking for your money, but if you got a 'spare ECM' you could lend to the cause it would be great, thanks guys... -Travis

I am a programmer by profession, and I am very interested in this area. I have some old eprom burners, but I am looking to upgrade to the newer burner. The proms in the 6.5 are 27128's ( I think), and they are very inexpensive. I am willing to use one of my ECM's for this and blow proms, but I have no idea the mapping of the prom.

10 years worth of tuning with FAST(felpro), Gen 6.2 DFI, Gen 7 DFI, Motec, DTA, EEC tuners and the lovely ford tweecer. A little bit of LS1 edit also, but not much. Did the old school gen 6 stuff without the aid of a wideband o2 to build a target map with a turbo.........not fun to try to make them idle and behave normal. Most of the junk was turbo'd, some supercharged and the older gen 6 and DTA stuff was N/A.

I have a source for EPROMS there are two 27128's listed both are less than $6
27128A=====200ns,28pin
27128-25====250ns,28pin
I don't even know what "ns" means. I know just enough about computers to make myself capable of screwing them up. Let me know if this helps.

here's a programmer from the same place.http://www.newark.com/product-details/text/mcm/html/72-6569.html

Newark is an awesome place we deal with all the time at work, huge. ns means nanosecond or 1 ns is 1 billionth of a second

As far as I know disassembling the stock code is the major piece of action.
Once that complete, you just edit the fuel/timing tables and burn the puppies up.

As far as I know disassembling the stock code is the major piece of action.
Once that complete, you just edit the fuel/timing tables and burn the puppies up.Yup, it all comes down to calibration. If you don't know where/how the tables are arrainged and located you'll be in the dark as to editing proms but coping them should be a snap with a programmer. When is a hacker with a 6.5L going to come along and show us how easy it is?

Why would you want to invest in the equipment to burn your own prom's when there are other venders out there that do the same thing already for the 94/95 OBD-I 6.5's?

Unless, this is to solve the mystery behind why Wester's only offers the upgraded computer that will go with their new 92MM DS4 for 96+ only when the first generation electronic's are left out in the cold..

Just curious!

If I could have one guy learn to make his own chips it would be tex. I would think he'd be way ahead of the curve with his understanding of how the pump internally functions and that knowledge applied to new a "experimental" program sounds like music to my ears. Plus, I want one!

One way to do it would be to get the binary image of a stock chip and an aftermarket one, then run a

windiff stock.bin notstock.bin

Would certainly help to identify areas of interest.
On the other hand I tend to agree with chevydiesel, why bother?
What makes you think you'll do it better than BD Diesel or whoever produced the original one?

Why would you want to invest in the equipment to burn your own prom's when there are other venders out there that do the same thing already for the 94/95 OBD-I 6.5's?

Just curious!
Actually The better question would be WHY NOT, at least from my view point, The other vendors are doing it but everyone is doing bout the same thing and there might other things that can be done. I have seen and heard what can be done when someone ask what if in the prom side of performance for the LT1's in the caprice /Impala SS's. Not sure how but TDG if I can do anything to help I'm with you.

Why would you want to invest in the equipment to burn your own prom's when there are other venders out there that do the same thing already?

Unless, this is to solve the mystery behind why Wester's only offers the upgraded computer that will go with their new 92MM DS4 for 96+ only when the first generation electronic's are left out in the cold..First of all, Wester's 'secret' has been me all along, I just didn't know who the boss was talking to when I tipped them off. Need I remind you that I am their supplier of "H.O." DS pumps?
Why would I want the spend the bucks on a chip that the makers won't tell me exactly what it is their chip does or what they've changed?

What makes you think you'll do it better than BD Diesel or whoever produced the original one?I think the best programmers are the guys who know the hardware their dealing with best, and I also think there are few who can match what I know about DS pumps. Not to toot my own horn or anything :D, But there are a LOT of ideas I would like to employ on a 6.5 setup that aftermarket and OEM have been unable to produce so far. I think I can not only improve performance, but fuel economy as well.

Here's some websites I'm looking at...
tunerpro.markmansur.com
www.aldlcable.com
www.speedtronics.net/aboutprominator.asp

not sure how much longer im gonna have my truck but id be interested in a programmer of some type that would allow you to change on the fly, maybe with differnt power levels

If anyone can find the instruction set for the ECU, I can write a disassembler. I have never seen a hint of the instruction set.

Nothing for the OBD ii?

Same here, no luck on information on the ECU....unless this file helps any

TDG,

I remember you letting us in on the fact that you've got your hands on the H.O. DS4 pump build that Westers is working on. I just seem to remember that a pump could be built but the computer had to be re-configured to call for the full 92mm. I was under the impression that the additional programming to make the call for more fuel was for the ODB-II 96+ systems. Is there an update on that?

I'm just the questioning type, thats why I asked why the project is being attempted. I'll agree though, we need someone who knows these pumps very well to combine that knowledge with the programming side.

So, none of the venders offering "chips" give any indications of what they're doing eh.. I'm interested in where this goes! Keep up the work, wish I knew more or I'd help!

I really think westers approach is....not wrong but, doesn't offer the full potential of these pumps anyway. It 'should' work for what they want, but I want more ;) I'll figure it out, its just a matter of time ;)

Wish I could help. Also, I have a 93:( , so all mechanical--unless you know something I don't that could help me/us.

Most folks, after converting their DS4 system to the '93 DB2 mech FI system, usually put a smiley face or two in their post.
All you're needing is -

get rid of the sad face

replace the timing set - this alone will amaze you, at 200kmi

the '97 cooling upgrades to handle the increased combustion heat

a charge-air cooler to recover lost power when ambient is above 50deg

only then, increase IP plunger travel for more fuel

Then, and this will require tremendous self-control on your part, put some - only a few, tho - smiley faces up there..............
:cool:

I know someone that can decompile just about anything... given the time and correct connections to hook up to the ECM

Most folks, after converting their DS4 system to the '93 DB2 mech FI system, usually put a smiley face or two in their post.
All you're needing is -

get rid of the sad face

replace the timing set - this alone will amaze you, at 200kmi

the '97 cooling upgrades to handle the increased combustion heat

a charge-air cooler to recover lost power when ambient is above 50deg

only then, increase IP plunger travel for more fuel

Then, and this will require tremendous self-control on your part, put some - only a few, tho - smiley faces up there..............
:cool:
I didn't mean it like that. I absolutely love that I have the mechanical setup. The sad face was just because I can't help out on the topic. What do you think a new timing set will do for me--never changed one on any engine. Don't you have to pull the engine? Already done the IP increase but still need to do the 97 upgrades. Sorry gmctd, wasn't trying to dog our mechanical setups I assure you:D

No apologies necessary - I was just being my usual facetious self.
Tho, most folks do not realize their good fortune in having the m-i trucks.

You also have the much coveted, much sought-after 599 block, known to survive much power upgrading.
(see! There I go again.....)

Timing set - remove everything on the front of the engine, incl timing cover.

Both the Chilton (drawings) and the Haines (pictures) manuals cover the procedure, if you do not have the factory service manuals (same line drawings as in Chilton's).

Bringing the camshaft and IP 6-8deg back to spec will result in an easily-felt power increase.

I'm not familiar with your rig, but, if not already done, rebuilt IP and injectors would also be tremendous improvement.

So - correct injection pressure results in correct spray pattern injected within correct timing window results in improved combustion means restored power.

An EGT gage is an absolute first requirement, then Boost.

Add the c-a cooler, crank up the Boost to about 12-14psi, and you can see an honest 200-215hp, continuous, on demand.

And that's what can be done for the m-i engines, without pulling the engine.

An EGT gage is an absolute requirement, then Boost.

Did I mention that an EGT gage is an absolute requirement, then add a Boost gage?

I definitely have both egt and boost gauges. Boost tops out at 12 under hard acc. I guess I have to research adjusting the timing on this diesel as I don't have the first clue how to do it.

Easy, loosen the three IP bolts and push it to the right 2.5mm or so.
Also, when you turn in the fuel screw it advances top end fuel delivery, iirc.

Ok, TDG, you got me interested now.

A while ago I posted a "collective call" to pull resources in identifying the ALDL protocol that 6.5 TD uses. Well this file seems to be it.
Basically, there is a guy that created an pretty extensible framework for reading and manipulating GM's ALDL formatted data stream. AFAIK, he started with modern LT1, progressed to LS1, but never touched the diesels.

Last I left it, you just needed a particular protocol spec, plus a laptop or a Palm device - and you 've got yourself a nice scanner, at worst. At best it could allow changing the settings and values at run-time, since protocol is bi-derectional.

I'll try finding the link, which is on my home computer and post it here, as well.

Ok, here is the link (http://www.akmcables.com/aldl.htm)

I have a ALDL cable from them for my LT1 and have contract with programmer for my LT1 programming changes and updates. Not sure Brian has ever looked at a 6.5 but I'll try to remember to ask him.
His website is www.pcmforless.com

TDG,
I remember you letting us in on the fact that you've got your hands on the H.O. DS4 pump build that Westers is working on. I just seem to remember that a pump could be built but the computer had to be re-configured to call for the full 92mm. I was under the impression that the additional programming to make the call for more fuel was for the ODB-II 96+ systems. Is there an update on that?
Wester's website says 92mm HO pump with custom ECM '96+, I never said that. My plan was totally different from the way he's trying.

Ok, TDG, you got me interested now.

A while ago I posted a "collective call" to pull resources in identifying the ALDL protocol that 6.5 TD uses. Well this file seems to be it.
So your saying with this file you could make or modify an existing program to communicate with the PCM? Or does it offer info on how to decipher the information stored on the PROM/PCM itself?
I have read in a few places that the PCM has onboard ROM (MEMCAL?) memory as well, is this true of the 6.5 PCMs too? Can we download this through an ALDL cable?

Does anyone here have in their posession any hardware to read write PROMs?
If so, then do you have the software that would allow you to download the information off some PROMs for us to collectively study and figure out?

Would this help any???
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7970449687&fromMakeTrack=true

As far as I know, most of the ECMs of that time consisted of a CPU, communications controller and a PROM - necessary to keep persistent information regarding the rpm/fuel/timing tables.
I have downloaded binary images of PROMs before using a laptop and a serial port, without much hassle, all you need to know is the pinout of the ROM and the specs, but I'm not a hardware guy, so don't have readily available access to this information. Any hardware (electronics) engineer should be able to determine that using his/her catalogs and/or manufacture specs sheets.

The problem is, those images are just that - a stream of numbers and are pretty hard to decipher without investing a lot of time into it, once you do though, you can edit the image using your favorite hex editor in the predetermined locations and download it back to the chip.

As far as the ALDL stuff goes, I'll tinker with the info you have provided a bit, to see if I can make anything useful with it. That is more up my alley of "expertise" :)

So, what is our objective here, to be able to burn our own ROMs with custom tailored fuel/timing/rpm maps, affect the operation of PCM on the fly, or learn the way GM's PCM functions?

So, what is our objective here, to be able to burn our own ROMs with custom tailored fuel/timing/rpm maps, affect the operation of PCM on the fly, or learn the way GM's PCM functions?
1 and 3 might lead to 2.

Definitely all the above ;)
I've seen lots of good apps to edit calibration on gasoline apps, I'm hoping the one for the 6.5 looks the same with just different labels basically, it has to bear some resemblance.
Besides, anything 'on-the-fly' that changes performance is sweet! This boost fooler knob from Radio shack is the coolest mod I've done to mine ;)
I really want to make these trucks run to their potential, mine and everyone elses, without having to pay somebody 3, 4, 500 bucks or more for ECM mods.

Once I get a good grasp of OBDI PROMs, I plan to go to reflashes next, then who knows, Powerstrokes, Cummins, Detroit, Vortec see how far I can go ;)

D I Y rules!

I have a ALDL cable from them for my LT1 and have contract with programmer for my LT1 programming changes and updates. Not sure Brian has ever looked at a 6.5 but I'll try to remember to ask him.
Bow, have you ever tried to dump your prom information with his program?
I found another one, also for gasoline but it has an feature built in to dump your prom info to a .bin file.

http://moates.net/gmecm/software.html ECM852.ZIP

nope and not sure what that would do BUT when he sends me new programing in comes in a .bin file, if that helps

He just sends you a file? Who/How do you get it programmed onto a PROM?

bin files are usually what you feed your prom burner. I have never done any automotive proms but I have burned many for other applications.

yeapper Thats how it works LOL I guess

But you also feed the bin file into an editor so you can change it and then burn a new prom right? So I need an original, I can't make one from scratch.

If you made a .bin file out of that cheap chip for a 5068 on ebay and compared it to my stock auto tranny prom for 5068, it might help to figure at least where the transmission stuff was.

I'm already bidding on the GM one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=7971045213&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBI%3AIT) and the Hypertech one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=7971571168&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBI%3AIT) and thats exactly what I plan to do with them.
According to Hypertechs website (http://www.hypertech.com/product_searchpart.html?phpID=vehicleTable&part=124692) that PROM fits ONLY '94 1tons so it should be 5068.
The new GM one I can't say for sure, I'm trying to contact the seller to see what else he knows about it, hopefully its automatic.

How are makin out with this project TDG?

Well I have a handful of PROMs, deciding on which programmer to get still, not much luck on finding any software that will specifically support the 6.5s.

Check out this programmer for diesel chips/proms:

www.dynosources.com

They do 6.5 GM diesel work.