i have a gmc2500HD duramax/allison and i am looking into buying a new toy hauler for the toys. I am looking at the Weekend Warrior LE fifth wheels. They are rated at 15,000 QVWR and 8030 UVWR and a 1560 dry hitch weight. I was wondering if this would be too much trailer for my truck. any help is appriciated. thanks

The truck will handle it no problem. Where are you located and who are you buying from? I've a connection that should be able to beat any deal you can get. At least match it and if you have a problem he goes to bat for you.

Options add up the weight really quick though. PM me if you need any further info.

we are in Salt Lake City. we are not sure who we are buying from yet because we have not even decided on a hauler yet, so i will be awile before we can get a new hauler. I am just trying to put a few things together so we have options later.

Best to do the math first: GVWR/GAWR/GCWR. I suspect you will be over on GVWR, 2500's IIRC run around 9200lbs. Truck weighs usually around 7k lbs, then pile Mama, kiddies, luggage, fuel, hitch, tool box and you've added another 1k lbs, leaves you around 1200lbs pin weight, maybe? :o:

Figure another 300-400lbs pin weight once loaded. Without knowing the WW model you are looking at it is hard to say how much more weight will be added to the pin. Do your own research, don't trust the RV salesman (repeat that 3 times). I went to WW website to gather intel, couldn't do anything without the model number.

Glad to see you posting on the DP before you buy. Lots of experienced towers on this site. JJ :)

yblstr241,
Let me fill you in on a few things I found out too little, too late. 1st, let me appologize on the pulling it no problem. I was thinking of a different model. Now that doesn't mean it won't do it (look at my sig. I don't have a problem with mine, just concerns), but you will have to do some upgrades to help keep the engine temps in check. I'd add a good 2k to the posted weight right out of the gate. Trust me, It will be heavier. 2nd, ask for the weights of any and all options that you are even thinking of getting. 3rd, insist up front that you want a 'certified actual weight' of the trailer and pin. This one will usually get the whole sales staff squirming. My guess is that after you load it with everything but the toys, you'll be in the area of 12k-13k. My trailer is probably 2k heavier than what you're looking at (4' longer and a slideout) and comes in around 16.5k-17k fully loaded since putting it on a diet. Still much heavier than I'd like.

Mrs. TT and I love our WW and I don't slow down as much as most on the dirt roads. It has held up well for the 35+ trips we've had it out and with 4 kids.

Part of my comfort level with the trailer being heavier than I'd like it to be has to do with 3 axles on the ground and the oversized brakes that are standard. You'll probably find that these can be ordered as options thru any manufacture. I also run Air Bags on the rear to compensate for such a heavy pin weight. IMO, you should be OK as long as the pin weight is under 3k. My CC/LB/4x comes in at around 7800 with 2 of us in it and 250#'s of extras.

Now before JJ has my hide, a Dually would be a better option to pull it with. Realistically though, Even the Dually would be under rated going by the GM GCVWR.

Good luck on your search and remember, drive it like your driving it on ice and you should be OK.

By the way JJ, I believe he's looking at the LE3305. This falls in line with the numbers he posted.

I have a Tahoe 35' toy hauler. 8500 empty 13500 loaded with the Corvette and 2 go karts and water. Pin wieght is right at 2350 in this configuration. I figure I'm a little over the weight rating for the truck. The truck handles it fine. One thing I looked at was how often I would be at max capacity of the trailer. I make maybe 2 trips a year at full load (maybe 3k miles) but the other 18k miles I put on towing last year were close to 10k trailer wieght as I did not have the Corvette stuck in the trailer. The pin weight runs right at 1600 when the trailer is loaded with water and camping goodies and 2 go karts. Just something to consider.

TT, my goal for 2005 is to make you a member of the 3500 Dually Club! :D IMHO 3k lb pin weight is a bit more than I would sit on a 2500, but you knew that was coming! ;)

We run into this issue quite often on the forum where guys have purchased trucks before finding the 5ver they want to pull with it. :o: JJ's been there, done that himself many times myself. This last time I decided to find the 5ver first then buy the tow vehicle which is how I ended up with a dually. Even then experienced haulers would say I'm under-trucked to pull my 5ver, they're right. :) Much like someone else posted I don't pull the majority of the time and I didn't want to drive a K4500/5500 for daily driving/parking. So I to am a little under-trucked! :o:

Much like TT I'm aware of my situation and compensate for it as much as possible. I am aware that given the wrong set of circumstances/conditions I may be unable to control my rig under emergent conditions. Something I'm aware of every time I hook er up! :o: Good discussion. JJ :)

JJ, I'm just trying to hold out long enough to be member #1 of the 4500/5500 new body style. That's the one where they put our body on the 4500/5500 chassis!

:offtopic: But how far is Jacksonville from Pensecola (did I spell that right)? Just found out my brother and family is moving there in 1 month.

TT,

5-6 hours as the crow flies! ;) 4500/5500 on our body style, Hmmm?:rolleyes:

RF3 is likely licking his chops at the prospect of you and I bumping up to these heavier duty trucks! I recall seeing something about the new body style, was it on the DP? Any links? JJ :)

JJ, I'm just trying to hold out long enough to be member #1 of the 4500/5500 new body style. That's the one where they put our body on the 4500/5500 chassis!

TT, Cm'on, the CC4500 is rooooomy, you wouldn't want to put a 25/3500 on a 4500. That would be too much like F**d. :ro)

Tech, I agree that the 4500 is roomy. But I think the 4500/5500 has the same problem from the factory as the 2500/3500.....Tires are too small! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/Throwup.gif I also need to use it as a daily driver and it's just to big for that IMHO. Combine the chassis of the 4500/5500 with the body of the 3500.....Ahhhh, just right. Yes, it would be similar to the F**d, But it would be wrong to say that F**d doesn't do something right. And this is the only something I can find! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif By the way, what does your rig weigh? How much can it legally tow according to GM? What kind of mileage and at what speed? Towing and unloaded please. Almost bought the 40' WW but I felt it killed too much on the capacity for what I was looking for. I do like the looks of your rig. Best looking one I've seen yet with the bed you have on it.

JJ, I don't have any links but I've heard rumors of companys that do this. Just haven't had time to really look. Well just have to keep dangling the carrot in front of RF3 for awhile. Maybe we'll have to tell each other privately when we do bump up. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif The only problem I'd have is that I don't want to get rid of this one.

By the way, what does your rig weigh? How much can it legally tow according to GM? What kind of mileage and at what speed? Towing and unloaded please. Almost bought the 40' WW but I felt it killed too much on the capacity for what I was looking for. I do like the looks of your rig. Best looking one I've seen yet with the bed you have on it.
TT, I have about 5500 miles on it now. (3500 miles while I was driving, 2000 delivery miles from Louisana to AZ)

I was fully loaded with all the toys and full of fuel/water/food/and chingasa and I was 20080 (15.5k on the axles), truck weight is 12080. I was pretty surprised when I picked up my weight ticket. I am heading out tomorrow on a play weekend to the sand dunes by Yuma, AZ (last trip down there this season before it gets too hot). I have it loaded much more conservative and almost dry and minus a couple of the toys:( . I'll scale it again tomorrow to see what it is. I think I'll be around 18K or so on the 5'er.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif Legally tow, well, with according to my first scale, I could legally tow only 13,900.

Hopefully by lightening my load in the TH I will only be over (legally) by about 5900 pounds or so. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Personally, I wish I would have weighed the WW 5'er empty with no stuff. I think it is heavier than the paperwork says. Docs, state that it is suspose to be 11,400 dry.

For the mileage I have been checking each fillup (topped off w/ the JJ method) and hand calculated. Towing about 9.5 mpg driving 70. Unloaded about 10.5 mpg driving 70ish. Mostly freeway.

TechProf

OK, I'll take the bait!

There is quite a bit of difference between the 4500 and 5500, just not as much as between the Light Duty trucks and these bigger fellas.

First off, the realities of using the 45/5500 as daily drivers is a lot less of a problem than what it appears. With a 54° wheel cut on the steering, these trucks are far more nimble in traffic than their light truck equivalent (CC or Regular Cab). I've got a Crew Cab, so I would not want to put it in one of those midget parking spaces at Wally-World, but parking a few spaces down the row where it is relatively empty, and walking a bit further has not been a problem. Even in corwded restaurant parking lots there always seems to be an opening in the back row, where I can park tail over curb/grass/etc.

Second, my scale tickets show the truck at about 10,800 (fuelled & packed for travel), and I have the 4:44 rear. After engine brak-in, it has settled at 13.4-13.8 solo and 10.5-10.8 towing 15K load, in optimum conditions. Hills and stop-n-go traffic will produce as low as 8.8 towing, but that is expected (still better than the 8.1 gasser). I realized from the start that we were not in the heavy hauling for the MPG, so I never worry about it, just the cost of doing business. If one cannot afford the fuel to go RV'ing with a larger rig, then serious considerations in reducing the size of the truck and trailer is the only solution.

The issues with the "toy hauler" type of trailer towing is weight balance. Few realize the impact of fluctuating weights will have on their trucks until its too late. Empty, the things are tongue heavy, full, and it is somewhat balanced, overloaded and its tongue light. Without a portable scale, its difficult to tell the difference, once you start stuffing the "garage" with stuff. This is why peopple will give you different stories, they are comparing apples to oranges, and why we went with the 5500 and the 13,500 rear. No matter how well balanced, the weight of the trailer shifts forward during heavy braking, often overloading the rear axles of light trucks (yes JJ, even the 3500 dually). Eventually, something is going to give, and Ride-Rite is not going to make much difference, as it only transfers that weight to something else ... like the front axle, via the frame!

I took into consideration a lesson learned from my time in the service, where nearly everything is done through lowest-bid contracts. Why should I risk getting by with the minimum equipment, when the maximum condition is unknowable. "You can never have too much truck". I've been able to stop the heaviest loads (GCW over 26,000 lbs) without trailer brake assist (cheap wiring by manufacturer), because there is a hell-of-a-lot more braking ability in the class 4/5 than in the light duty pick-ups. Not comon-sense, just good-sense.

Recommend you stay away from the car dealer, and find a Commercial Truck dealer to run your numbers. You don't have to buy/sell/trade/steal anything (these folks are not pushy like the Stealers), they will let you test drive anything they have on the lot, so that you can get a good feel for it, and even let your co-driver do the same to make sure you are making the right decision (they are most accomodating). Until you've tried one of these trucks out in traffic, it is indiscribably much easier to handle than you think.

Trailer "dry weight" is, and always shall be, misleading. The RVIA states that "dry weight" is for a base model, meaning without options. "Shipping weight" is what needs to be provided, that is, the trailer would have to be weighted individually before leaving the factory, but that is never going to happen because it would impact the car dealers ability to sell pick-up trucks. To be safe, get your rig scaled as soon as possible (before loading it up), then take the necessary precautions to ensure that you don't leave home overloaded.

The new MDT cab design is here to stay. Rumors? The straight rails from front to back is an enviable advantage with their overwhelmingly commercial customers, so it is here to stay. Tire size? Don't think I understand that statement, but then again, I've never been a "mudder". If I desired to go off road with oversized wheels, I'd own a second truck with 9-12" of suspension travel. The two applications rely on different principles. This goes back to basic physics...and I'll say it again, you cannot cheat, defy, circumvent, change, or mitigate with the laws of physics. They just are, so its a matter of compromising within these physical boundaries. The larger the tires, the heavier. The higher the weight rating, the heavier. At one point, all that centrifical weight becomes another limitation (again, physics), hence lower governed speeds. Then everyone wants to defy the governor..... I see an unsafe condition developing here.

RF

(topped off w/ the JJ method)

Music to ol' JJ's ears! Think I'm gonna cry! :bawl: JJ :)

JJ,

Took Mrs RF to the ole RV dealer today. Looked at 42' Sunnybrook toy hauler.... W/D, Onan 5000 Gas Gen. & Fuel Station.... Changed her mind about that Mobile Suite she's been asking for.

Now I've got to figure out how to pay for it! Look what you started :uhoh2: !!!

We'll see what happens, might have to find a way to :beerchug: at a campground!

RF

:D ):h ):h ):h ):h ):h ):h It's more fun spending someone else's money! JJ ;)

Updated scale weight on the 40' Weekend Warrior 5'er
As mentioned I was going to load the trailer much more conservative without some of the toys. So, 150 gallon water, empty, 30gallons fuel, the weights are as follows:

Steer Axle 6240
Drive Axle 9460
Trailer Axle 11,820
Gross Weight 27520

Gross weight - truck weight = 15520 for the WW

So, much closer to gcvw this trip than last.

Techprof1,

No toyz? :o:

RF3, that's the same unit I have with the bigger garage. Did you crawl under that bad boy and check out the frame it is built on? The mor-ryde suspension is a must. I've left things on the counter driven all day and they haven't moved much if at all. Really absorbs the shocks. Later. JJ :)

Tech,
When you load the toys, do you try to load them toward the rear or 60% forward of the axle as recommended? If I'm reading your numbers correctly, Your passed the 25% rule for the pin weight. I've always been taught to stay within 15-25% for safe limits. If anyone has anything different, please post.
TT

JJ,

So, you like it then. No problems? Factory installed Mor-rydes, nev-r-lubes and shocks are standards, but I will add an air pin-box up front to keep things hung up in the closets, due to the trucks stiff 13,500 suspension (will have to get air-ride installed later. Used that money for a down on the SUT). The tripple-square channel frame on the Titan chassis is the strongest in the industry (I went through a tour of Middlebury years ago when I was hauling these things to the dealers).

Our bad boy has all the options, with the "gas station", Onan 5500 gen-set (Gas), stacker washer/dryer, BR-slide, mini-awnings, loft bunk/storage, screen door at rear ramp, slide trays in storage areas, roof rack & ladder, chrome wheels, spare & carrier, ceramic floor & porcelain T, oak table & chairs, and the list goes on.

I needed the longer "garage" because I've got to build some office space and an electronic workbench in there, yet still have room for 2 roll-away tool boxes and JoBox for work (and don't forget the Indian Chief, for other reasons). As a "road-warrior", having comfort and office/shop on wheels makes more sense than paying air-fares, hotels, rental cars, and DHL-shipping of my trade tools all over the country. My other option was towing doubles with a Fiver and tow-behind....meaning, no A/C or heat in the office and shop!!

Twister,

Being light on the pin-box is dangerous, as we all know, but being heavy (more than 25%) is not recommended because of the limits of the tow-vehicle or hitch. I will say that I'm heavier, but I've got a 5500 with 13,500 rated axle/suspension on the Drives, and a Holland FW-6000 fixed hitch with 12,000 lbs. maximum vertical load capacity, and gross trailer weight capacity of 32,000 lbs.
(http://www.thehollandgroupinc.com/Portal/Products/FifthWheels/Models/LightCommercialSeries/default.htm)


RF

No problems??? Of course not! I've owned just about every make travel trailer and have had a punch list on all of them. But absolutely none to do with fit/finish, mostly little things. I did have the brake wire come apart over the axles, not sure if I did that or if it just came loose. :o:

Mama JJ and I looked at numerous toy haulers, most were set up for families with kids, not much on the ol' creature comfort stuff. The Sunnybrook toy hauler is plush, nice as any top of the line 5ver I looked at, yet gave me the back garage for hauling crap. ;)

These toy haulers are very versatile. We thought we would use the garage just for hauling stuff. We put an extra A/C back there and when we travel we have an extra bedroom set up back there. Our guest have their own entrance, a/c unit, and a private door. We travel around the country, they fly in, we put them up for a few days and enjoy each others company, they fly out and we hit the road again. Never envisioned the extra bedroom idea. We really like the flexibility it affords us. :ro)

Post some pictures of that bad boy behind your rig. I would like to see it. JJ :)

JJ,


Twister,

Being light on the pin-box is dangerous, as we all know, but being heavy (more than 25%) is not recommended because of the limits of the tow-vehicle or hitch. I will say that I'm heavier, but I've got a 5500 with 13,500 rated axle/suspension on the Drives, and a Holland FW-6000 fixed hitch with 12,000 lbs. maximum vertical load capacity, and gross trailer weight capacity of 32,000 lbs.
(http://www.thehollandgroupinc.com/Portal/Products/FifthWheels/Models/LightCommercialSeries/default.htm)


RF
Completely agree RF. That's why I posted 25% as a safe max!:exactly:

Techprof1,

No toyz? :o:


This trip I took two 660 yamaha raptors.

TT, the quads were toward the back (end to end). Yes, I agree on the pin weight. The fridge was full of beer, that is why the pin weight exceeded the 25% rule. :exactly:

I don't worry about it too much with the 4500. It was much more of a concern when I had the F350.

I left on this last trip all excited about getting the "best" possible mileage since it was the lightest load.... Well, 200 miles of a 40mph head wind. Glad I carry 115 gallons of fuel:eek: . MPG was a wopping 6.2 @ about 60 mph. That was about as fast as she would go. I need more power!:muahaha:


TechProf

Need more power huh? Anyone around here think we can help with that!):h

techprof1,

You are dangerously heavy on that pin weight and a potential danger to those around you. ;) Is there a convenient location were we can meet along the interstate to unload that fridge! :D

We're getting smarter on these "mobile garages" they call Toy Haulers! They have introduced a totally different dynamic to fifth wheels, especially given that they can get "ass heavy" in a hurry. I'm going to school on those gaining experience with their units. Good intel. JJ :)