Most guys questions about the TransGo jr kits usually pertain to the installs....mine is about removal. :D I wanna pull the TG jr trim valves out and put the stockers back in. Is it ok to leave the stock drilled separator plate in or should I replace it with a non drilled stock plate? Will it go back to a stock WOT shift firmness by removing the trims but leaving the drilled plate?

Apparently the 8.1's don't need the jr kit as my 3-4 WOT shift is way too hard with the jr with the addition of TM removal/tuning via EFI Live. Wasn't bad (good actually) with the stock tune but with the TM gone from the trans it's way to harsh on the 3-4. All other shifts are spot on.

i dont mean to be a jackass, but a firm shift is a good thing, it would be absolutely absurd to remove a good thing that will prolong the life and increase the holding power of your trans for the sake of a more comfortable shift, at wot no less! since when is a wot shift supposed to be smooth anyways? when you going full throttle comfort is no longer a concern, performance is top priority imo. besides, im sure you could smooth it out in the tune if you really want to.

"Firm" would be a major understatement. "Unnecessarily harsh" would be a better description...like stuff flying off the dash kind of harsh.

My feeling is that the 8.1's dont need the help of the TG to prolong trans life or make it hold better on the shifts...since after all a mildly modded 8.1 isn't developing the torque of a stock D-Max even.

if it is shifting like that then the problem isnt the transgo. the transgo should improve the shift quality. when is the last time you changed the spin on. maybe you have a valve sticking

if it is shifting like that then the problem isnt the transgo. the transgo should improve the shift quality. when is the last time you changed the spin on. maybe you have a valve stickingNever had a 3-4 harsh shift issue with it until I removed the TM from the trans, which is ALL I did in the tune. It was "just right" firm before...but pulling the TM with the TG installed it's just too much now.

Just changed both the spin on and internal when I installed the TG about 2 months ago, aprox 500 miles ago....yes I don't drive it much. :D

well maybe it is shifting hard because you took the torque management out. put it back to stock and reset the taps. should be good to go. unless you have something in the valvebody.

I agree, I dont think the transgo is the problem

So can anyone provide the answer to the original technical related question I asked?

there will be no problem leaving the drilled plate in the valvebody. all they are is fluid passages. when you drilled them all you didi was make it to where more fluid could get through on the exhuast side i think, but i dont think the transgo is your problem

have you tried reseting the taps and doing the learn procedure? that could fix it.

there will be no problem leaving the drilled plate in the valvebody. all they are is fluid passages. when you drilled them all you didi was make it to where more fluid could get through on the exhuast side i think, but i dont think the transgo is your problemThats what I need to check..are the drilled passages on the pressure or exhaust side of the circuit. Since a larger hole on the pressure side can still increase VOLUME...but it may not be an issue without the trim valves supplying the additional pressure they normally would. I need to check the TG paperwork to see exactly which holes got the drill treatment in order to compare them with the fluid/passage layouts.


Once again guys I don't even feel that there is a mechanical "problem" so to speak. It's just the now lack of TM during shifts (both in the trans and the engine calibrations) along with the full pressure the TG is suppling just being too much apply force. Neither the engine or trans can reduce torque during the shifts (softening them up) and with that combination the TG adding additional pressure it's just overkill on the clutch apply. If I add the TM back in it goes back to shifting firm but not harsh...just like it always has since I installed the TG jr. I actually originally reduced the TM in 2 increments vs pulling it all at one time and even with only approx 50% of the TM removed the 3-4 (and also the 4-3 WOT) shift got firmer right away...since again there's no longer TM on the shifts. And once I removed it all...thats when the 3-4 shift got too harsh. If there was a way to only add some TM back in just on the 3-4 shift and leave the TG jr in there I would. But without affecting all the other shifts (which are good) I can not.

I feel that if these transmissions can't handle 450 ft lbs without a TG jr in them then something is seriously wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong here but it seems that most guys running stock D-max's don't run the TG jr kits in them unless they later plan on adding hundreds of additional ft lbs of torque at a later date. If a stock Allison can live a long life behind a stock D-max factory rated at a minimum of 520 ft lbs I see no reason its required in an Allison behind an 8.1 thats only making 455 ft lbs.

have you tried reseting the taps and doing the learn procedure? that could fix it.Any time I make any somewhat major changes to either the trans or engine tune, yes I always reset the TAPS and give it a chance to relearn so that answer would be a big yes. :)

you really dont need to reset them every time you make a change to the ecm. this could be part of your problem. the only time that you need to reset the taps is when you make changes in the tranny. and the only reason that the allison lives behind the dmax is because it has defuel

I thought the same thing originally that the relearn may have been a contributor. But it now has over 400 miles on it since the last TAPS reset and the 3-4 WOT hasn't changed one bit. Which was also why I waited until now to ask the the original question. My tuner guy was the one who recommended to reset the TAPS with ANY TCM modifications along most ECM mods that changed any RPM/throttle points of any kind.

Checked the fluid layouts and you are correct beach, the drilled holes are on the exhaust side so they should be fine as is. So as a test I'm gonna drop the pan and put the stock trims back in and see where the shift quality results end up. I can always throw them back in later.

snowtogogmc - I wonder if your shifting problems with the TG Jr installed were because your 04.5 really required the full "big box" TG Sift Kit?

After you de-install the TG Jr valves and shifting isn't up to your liking I have a few of the stock separator plates around. PM me if you need one.

didnt even look at that. could be the problem because the trim valves arent seeing the pressure that they should from the pump

To answer your question yes you can put it all back to stock and keep the seperator plate modified. I am running that setup right now until I find the time to re-install my TG Jr.

snowtogogmc - I wonder if your shifting problems with the TG Jr installed were because your 04.5 really required the full "big box" TG Sift Kit?

After you de-install the TG Jr valves and shifting isn't up to your liking I have a few of the stock separator plates around. PM me if you need one.I had thought of that too but I also recall Mike L mentioning that it's ok and even recommended to at least install the jr kit for redundancy if your not going pull the trans to install the whole kit. I can't remember off the top of my head what all the big box includes but IIRC the extra components in the full kit would just be for additional holding power and to address the weak pre-'04.5 clutch piston & springs.. I don't think there's anything (other than the trims) that control clutch pressure...or would cause it to be to high without them.

And thanks for the offer for a stock plate. It's much appreciated. :) Sourcing Allison hard parts around here isn't the easiest thing to do.

To answer your question yes you can put it all back to stock and keep the seperator plate modified. I am running that setup right now until I find the time to re-install my TG Jr.Thanks for the comformation. Thats what I'm goign to do then, pull them out and reinstall the stockers and see how it works. Luckily I always save all the stock pieces when doing any upgrades..

I would suggest adding a slight bit of spark retard during that shift (torque management) that way the trans shifts firm but the lack of power during it should smooth it out and you keep all the benefits of the jr kit and a better shift through the other gears. if not i guess just remove it.

I would suggest adding a slight bit of spark retard during that shift (torque management) that way the trans shifts firm but the lack of power during it should smooth it out and you keep all the benefits of the jr kit and a better shift through the other gears. if not i guess just remove it.I'd certainly do that vs just pulling the TG out first but I see no way to input spark reduction ONLY on the 3-4 shift on these 8.1/Allisons combos. It's either TQ reduction on ALL shift...or none. No individual gear choices. :(

IIRC, when Mike L installed the TGJ on my rig, he said that it makes NO change to shifting characteristics unless/until it senses increased engine torque, as from full-bore tuner acceleration ... supposedly, one of the beauties of the shift-kit.

If I've remembered correctly, then removing the TGJ won't affect that harsh 3-4 shift. Will be curious to hear your results. :confuzeld

maybe raise the shift rpm for that shift by 100rpm and then set torque management on, then max out the torque limits table except for the rpm you have set for the 3-4 shift. this is basically how i achieve a bigger defuel into 5th vs my other gears, but i don't know how a higher shift point would affect things otherwise... it just seems wrong to take a shift kit out!

also you could try setting the tap preset for 3-4 100% throttle to a lower psi, or maybe a longer shift time...:confuzeld

IIRC, when Mike L installed the TGJ on my rig, he said that it makes NO change to shifting characteristics unless/until it senses increased engine torque, as from full-bore tuner acceleration ... supposedly, one of the beauties of the shift-kit.

If I've remembered correctly, then removing the TGJ won't affect that harsh 3-4 shift. Will be curious to hear your results. :confuzeldNot disagreeing with Mike L of course but possibly it's different with the gas trucks as I noticed a difference in the WOT shifts right after I installed the TG. They were fine to begin with (stock) but the TG firmed them up a little more across the board.

If/when I pull the TG I'll certainly report back with my findings since these threads are so much more useful to others searching the save answers when they can read the final outcome.

maybe raise the shift rpm for that shift by 100rpm and then set torque management on, then max out the torque limits table except for the rpm you have set for the 3-4 shift. this is basically how i achieve a bigger defuel into 5th vs my other gears, but i don't know how a higher shift point would affect things otherwise... it just seems wrong to take a shift kit out!In the gas tunes I've yet to see a way to adjust the TM and TQ limit tables by RPM. It's either for the entire RPM/load/TQ reduction request...or nothing at all. No way to pinpoint it by gear/RPM etc. Kinda why my options are limited.

Also, the 8.1's also wont do a 4-5 gear WOT shift unless it's in T/H. So in normal mode you've only got 1st thru 4th.

also you could try setting the tap preset for 3-4 100% throttle to a lower psi, or maybe a longer shift time...:confuzeldThats certainly doable but adding shift time would sort of defeat the purpose of the TG wouldn't it? If I was gonna go that route why bother to run the TG? Pretty much the reason I wanna go ahead and pull it out and give it a try to see how it works vs trying to cover it up with a band-Aid first. If it doesn't work I can always throw them back in and try your idea next.

well thats the idea, you defeat the purpose, but only during that one shift. you will still hold more line pressure after the shift and your other shifts will be firmer. the shift timing is adjustable for each gear desperately. i would try all i can in the tune before i actually removed it.

. . . Pretty much the reason I wanna go ahead and pull it out and give it a try to see how it works . . .

@ SnowToGo,

BUMP . . . What's up w/that TGJ?? :p:

Nothing yet as I haven't remove the TG jr as of yet. I did however add 50% of the TM back into the tune since my last post but it didn't make a noticeable difference in the 3/4-WOT 3-4 shift so I may still go ahead and remove it as a test. I'll certainly post my findings once I have it sorted out as thats what makes DP what it is...a great information resource.

you need to keep at least some of the TM, TM on a gasser is like defuel on a diesel. The ally is built to shift in .7sec no faster no slower. If it is forced to do otherwise problems occur.