Seeing as how the media is very influencial in todays world, it appears the media pumps up hybrids to be more than they really are.

When it comes to trucks, does the average truck buyer really want a hybrid? I feel that the media can play a strong roll in deciding this.

I have read a couple of articles that strongly point out the negatives of hybrid trucks and SUV's. They suffer while towing, and they suffer in winter conditions. Not to mention they are as costly, if not more costly than a diesel.

What if most major truck and automotive publications wrote more about why not to waste money on a hybrid truck, and pointed out the positives of buying a diesel? (less batteries, more power, biofuels, clean diesel, better mpg)

I feel hybrid truck and SUV sales have been hurting as it is. If more media pointed out the negatives of hybrids and positives of diesels, I believe even the govenment would start to see that big heavy trucks opperate better with diesels.

Im trying to keep hope alive for the 4.5L, and the automotive media who is full of enthusiasts like us, are surely just as bummbed about the cancellation of this motor. They have the power and should do all they can to convince america that this is just wrong.

Please read these articles:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gmc-yukon-hybrid-quick-spin.html
(Talks about how a hybrid yukon gets worse mileage than a non hybrid in cold weather)

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/04/road-test-2009-chevrolet-silverado-twomode-hybrid.html
(Talks about how a hybrid 1500 costs just as much as a 2500 duramax. Hybrid towing a 3200# trailer gets 13mpg while a dmax towing a 10000# trailer gets 13.5mpg)

I feel if more articles like this were published, the 4.5L would live once again.

I hear what your saying and I too would love to see the 4.5L hit the road. The 4.5L would be far more capable than any current hybrid pickup.

I'm thinking that's because hybrid pickups/suvs weren't designed for the average pickup owner. They're intended to serve a smaller niche: where improved fuel economy in a larger vehicle is needed: larger families, hauling or towing small loads, city commuting, etc. They get improved fuel economy for those that need a larger and slightly more capable vehicle. With technology advances, next generation hybrids will be even more fuel efficient and capable.

Why no hybrid diesels?

Good reading Blue.

Why no hybrid diesels?

That is a good question. WTF would they still be building gas burner hybrid's when you could do somthing like this just as easy. 110 MPG!!!!!!:eek: thats what we need, and it looks kinda cool to lol
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4244409.html?series=47

Why no hybrid diesels?

Simple...the left-liberal elite has, for years, painted diesels as the big-bad guy pollution producers in the form of trucks and buses. They have been able to blame diesels for the increase in certain kinds of pollution to fit their agenda.

They have been able to get away with this because the US auto market has never had small, efficient diesels of the kind so common in Europe. Diesel autos have had a bum rap in the US because the US produced product was, generally, shoddy. Compare a late 1980's Mercedes-Benz 300SD with a Cadillac diesel of the same vintage...

So, there is a lot of emotional resonance invested in the hybrid program by the left-liberals...which is why, through more government intervention and subsidy, it will not be allowed to fail.

I think the best thing would be a hydraulic hybrid with a bio-diesel engine. Who cares if it drives up the cost of food around here a little. I'd reather give more money to the hard working American farmers than to anyone from any other country selling oil.

Just with the EGR/SCR/DPF we get 40% worse MPG's ... stupid CARB ... now they want to ban black (dark colors) cars b/c they run hotter ... need more A/C and and might safe 7 - 14 Gallon per Year -:t

Simple...the left-liberal elite has, for years, painted diesels as the big-bad guy pollution producers in the form of trucks and buses. They have been able to blame diesels for the increase in certain kinds of pollution to fit their agenda.

They have been able to get away with this because the US auto market has never had small, efficient diesels of the kind so common in Europe. Diesel autos have had a bum rap in the US because the US produced product was, generally, shoddy. Compare a late 1980's Mercedes-Benz 300SD with a Cadillac diesel of the same vintage...

So, there is a lot of emotional resonance invested in the hybrid program by the left-liberals...which is why, through more government intervention and subsidy, it will not be allowed to fail.


I agree on most points.... how ever it is ultimately the result of uneducated puplic masses that gave Diesels a bad rap... People as a whole tend to focus on the "bad things" rather than the "good things". The old school diesels were in fact stincky, black exhaust belching monsters.... few people recognize how far the technology has come and that Diesel is now just as clean as gas and has more benefits.

I wish there were more public advocates for diesel... Mythbusters has been plugging the VW TDI for a little while now... I wish we could get more folks like them to embrace and promote things like the baby Max or diesels in general. Diesles combined with Hybrid technology would be great too.

In general i dislike hybrids... the Prius being the biggest one.... Dont get me wrong, the Prius/Hybrid is a VERY GOOD option for someone who does strictly city driving... what i hate is the way its being pushed on everyone as a "world/environment saver and if yoru driving something different your destroying the world". For other segments(highway driving, towing, etc) there are much better options than a hybrid... and people need to be educated about it

Why no hybrid diesels?


Too expensive!

So you are going to pay $6K for a diesel engine option and another $6K for the hybrid option? I don't think so and then they really don't complement each other like a gas-hybrid (low end grunt from electric) higher RPM horspower from a gas. Diesel and electric would just give you all low end torque so why have both at that excessive cost?

Hybrids make a lot of sense, (if having a giant SUV makes sense) to tote your kids back and forth to all of their activities. Ifor one don't want to see diesels get popular besides our trucks. It will just push up the price of diesel and if other countries use diesel then gas will be cheaper. Looking at it from that view if we can bring back station wagons and make Hybrid Minivans then gas and hybrid makes a lot of economic sense for the US.

diesel will never be big in cars in the US cause of most people think of a loud Semi when they think diesel

Too expensive!

So you are going to pay $6K for a diesel engine option and another $6K for the hybrid option? I don't think so and then they really don't complement each other like a gas-hybrid (low end grunt from electric) higher RPM horspower from a gas. Diesel and electric would just give you all low end torque so why have both at that excessive cost?

Hybrids make a lot of sense, (if having a giant SUV makes sense) to tote your kids back and forth to all of their activities. Ifor one don't want to see diesels get popular besides our trucks. It will just push up the price of diesel and if other countries use diesel then gas will be cheaper. Looking at it from that view if we can bring back station wagons and make Hybrid Minivans then gas and hybrid makes a lot of economic sense for the US.

Atleast it would cut some of our dependence of foreign oil and maybe help promote bio-fuel.

Mass media is a business, not a public good.

It only exists to sell advertising, not to enrich, or enlighten the world.

look at trains.

Diesel/electric drive, dc induction hub motors with the proper traction a hub motor can out accelerate a top fuel dragster. down size the unit to a small 3 cylinder Kobota diesel out of the mid sized tractor and it will have more than enough power to drive a generator to move a mid sized Monte Carlo, Taurus, Camary, Stratus or what ever you may have. for the small car crowd if you "have to have" a hybrid then use the small 2 cylinder out of the APU's for the semi's to run the generator for charging the battery and bursts of high acceleration.

it can all be very easily done. Just that the Bush's and the oil Arab's dont want the auto makers to do it. so when ideas actually become product they buy the patents and make the designer "disappear".

So how was it that way back in the early 80's Smokey Unick got 45+ mpg out of his hot gas/hot fuel vaporization modified Fiero?

Very simple stuff once you see how it was put together. Some where in Hotrod Magazines archives is the articles on the man and the car.

the current trains use AC instead of DC, and best ship propulsion is diesel electric drive also, they normally bring engine to peak torque for generator. funny how 6.6 and 4.5 peak torque was around 1800 rpm same as AC gensets 60hertz setup. think 4.5 setup this way with capacitors instead of batteries(allison had this kind of hybrid setup for flexible buses, years ago) and motor hubs, problably make a tesla look like standing still. steady rpm would cut emissions.

Both locomotive manufacturers (EMD, formerly a div. of GM, and GE) build both AC and DC motored locomotives. The DC traction motors have been around since the first diesel-electric locomotives were built, it is tried and true technology. Sometime in the Sixties, the main generators driven by the diesel engines were replaced by alternators, making AC power. This was then rectified to DC current for the traction motors. Same technology change in cars at the time. This set up also has the effect of eliminating the need to regulate engine speed. In fact, full throttle on these engines is 900 to 1000 rpm. Remember, about a nine inch bore, and ten inch stroke, and sixteen cylinders. The much newer AC motored locomotives use the same diesel engine/main alternator to make the electricity, then it gets rectified to DC to make it "constant", and then the computers invert it back to AC current in very closely controlled "waveforms" to supply the AC motors geared to the wheels. Very expensive to build and maintain, but the AC motors will take incredible abuse. Like absorbing 5,000hp continuosly for hours at a time at speeds as low as 11mph. The technology does not translate directly to automobiles. Without a battery pack to tap, you would need an engine to make 300hp if you wanted 300hp-like acceleration. Carrying around the very heavy battery has always seemed to my uneducated thinking to be the hybrid's biggest achille's heel.

I think...

I need to get a commitee together that promotes diesels and go around actually educating people on diesels and how far they really have come.

Sure it kills mileage and really eats up the power of the engine, and most of us here kill these emmisions control parts at some time or another, but for the average owner who wants something "enviormentally friendly" and yet still has balls, the new DMAX and 6.7L Cummins do a fine job at it. After all, go drive a diesel equipped with a DPF for a thousand miles. Then rub your finger inside the exhaust pipe. Try and go do that to an older diesel.

Course I'd be a really bad example considering my truck has no EGR, DPF, Cat converter, or any of that stuff... Hypacrite already :D

Comparing a hybrid to a diesel is like comparing a nun to a porn star!

In the media's eyes and in the eyes of enviro-wackos!

If we leave it up to Obama we will go from driving trucks with gun racks to driving a North Korean import car with an in dash food stamp and welfare check printer! :mad:

I finally got my parents to get a VW TDI. They are singing its praises within the first 100 miles. Yes there are a few extra maintenance tasks that need to be performed, but they are getting 50 mpg while cruising @ 80 on the interstate.
Also, have been looking @ the vw truth or dare comparison. Very impressive.

Mass media is a business, not a public good.

It only exists to sell advertising, not to enrich, or enlighten the world.

x2

If we leave it up to Obama we will go from driving trucks with gun racks to driving a North Korean import car with an in dash food stamp and welfare check printer! :mad:

That's funny...and scarey at the same time.

So how was it that way back in the early 80's Smokey Unick got 45+ mpg out of his hot gas/hot fuel vaporization modified Fiero?




I remember that article; that's how long I've been subscribed to Hot Rod.
I have a feeling that technology was bought and destroyed by big oil, or one of thier associates.

I remember that article; that's how long I've been subscribed to Hot Rod.
I have a feeling that technology was bought and destroyed by big oil, or one of thier associates.

X2

VW TDI's are simply awesome plus you can get oil converson kits or use BIO-Diesel. Hence ween ourselves off the foreign oil. Some additional maintenance required for the TDI's but overal much cheaper than having a Dealer work on your Hybrid or even worse replace you battery packs!

My hope is something changes the US publics stance on Diesel motors.

Take a look at recreational vehicles. 2-Strokes were the dominate ones now 4-Strokes are cleaner and are making the same or more power than the 2-Stroke equivalents. Who is to say a diesel can't complete in the rec. vehicle field as well?

X2

VW TDI's are simply awesome plus you can get oil converson kits or use BIO-Diesel. Hence ween ourselves off the foreign oil. Some additional maintenance required for the TDI's but overal much cheaper than having a Dealer work on your Hybrid or even worse replace you battery packs!

My hope is something changes the US publics stance on Diesel motors.

Take a look at recreational vehicles. 2-Strokes were the dominate ones now 4-Strokes are cleaner and are making the same or more power than the 2-Stroke equivalents. Who is to say a diesel can't complete in the rec. vehicle field as well?


Several years back, when I had a long term lay-off, I considered a career change. I would have needed a new vehicle for daily drives to work, since I've had company trucks up til then. I live in a rural area, the city is an hours drive. The first vehicle I test drove was in fact a VW Jetta wagon with the TDI. Had I moved forward with the career change, I would have bought that vehicle. My neighbors wife has a Jetta coupe, and averages 47MPG. And I know she is not a slow driver. Why would I even consider a Prius, which costs more, and can't beat the mileage of the Jetta?

I still dont know what the F GM aka Governement Motors is thinking.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/01/diesels-grab-81-of-june-volkswagen-jetta-sportwagen-sales/

81% of Jetta wagons sold in June were sold with a diesel
40% of the Jetta sedan sold in June were sold with a diesel
and 29%-41% of the Toureg buyers purchased with a diesel

Im sure the numbers would work the same had GM brough this 4.5L to market. Im still holding out. Paying for a Head job on my 5.7L tahoe rather than purchasing a new GM truck.

Why no hybrid diesels?

I've been asking that now for years.

I still dont know what the F GM aka Governement Motors is thinking.



All of the Detroit 3 seem to have the same blinders on. A few years ago Jeep ran a limited run of their Liberty offering a 2.8l Diesel. They expected to build 5000 when they first proposed it. They ended up selling 10,000.

Another point is that I think the market would be receptive to diesels that were less powerful and got better mileage. The 4.5 will be a step in the right direction, but the power rating is still roughly what the first 6.6's were. I think an even smaller diesel could still out pull a 5.3 and get great mileage.

You tell a guy that he can pull as well as with his 5.3 but get 35 mpg empty instead of 18 and he'll buy it.

Another point is that I think the market would be receptive to diesels that were less powerful and got better mileage. The 4.5 will be a step in the right direction, but the power rating is still roughly what the first 6.6's were. I think an even smaller diesel could still out pull a 5.3 and get great mileage.

You tell a guy that he can pull as well as with his 5.3 but get 35 mpg empty instead of 18 and he'll buy it.

Totally agree. What urks me is Dodge. Cummins has always had a smaller version of the 5.9 and the 6.7. Dodge could have put it in but elected not to because of the small market for it.

the only reason there is a "small market" for any of these vehicle is because nobody wil make them and sell them with a mass marketing campaign to get the public to accept and buy them.

if you could produce a Cobalt with a 1.8 liter 4 cylinder diesel 5 speed or auto and buy tv time every 22 minutes and put a 27 second commercial in that spot talking about the awesome MPG's it gets compared to everybody elses small car, in less than 3 months they would be so hot that you couldn't produce them fast enough.

the only reason there is a "small market" for any of these vehicle is because nobody wil make them and sell them with a mass marketing campaign to get the public to accept and buy them.

if you could produce a Cobalt with a 1.8 liter 4 cylinder diesel 5 speed or auto and buy tv time every 22 minutes and put a 27 second commercial in that spot talking about the awesome MPG's it gets compared to everybody elses small car, in less than 3 months they would be so hot that you couldn't produce them fast enough.

Really what they should do is built a protype Cobalt A Super small diesel with really high compression and timing and with the best of all the diesel technology, with no emissions jhit. Less than 1 liter, probably top the 100MPG mark. Keep it all top secret until done, then bring it front of the government on live TV during the bail out crap. And tell them it'll top 100MPG w/o emissions BS. Even though it'd make like no CO2.

Let the drama unfold.

my first car was an 86 Jetta diesel. it was NA and slow as balls but it got 45MPG's no matter how i drove it. could even pull 50 on a long highway trip. man do i miss that car nowadays.

What's funny around here is the tree huggers who drive the old Mercedes Diesels and they puke way more black smoke than my stock D-max. People need to be educated on Diesel's. The American car companies need to build a small diesel for cars...

my first car was an 86 Jetta diesel. it was NA and slow as balls but it got 45MPG's no matter how i drove it. could even pull 50 on a long highway trip. man do i miss that car nowadays.

haha!

I suspect now that you daily driver has 10X the power your old VW would feel even slower.

Back when I had my R1, every car felt the same - slow. It took a long time away from that thing to change my perception of fast to something more reasonable.

Really what they should do is built a protype Cobalt A Super small diesel with really high compression and timing and with the best of all the diesel technology, with no emissions jhit. Less than 1 liter, probably top the 100MPG mark. Keep it all top secret until done, then bring it front of the government on live TV during the bail out crap. And tell them it'll top 100MPG w/o emissions BS. Even though it'd make like no CO2.

Let the drama unfold.

Done and done (by Toyota). 1.4D Yaris, over 70mpg. Available for sale in the UK for £8,395 which would be about $10k or so in US Dollars. Drives pretty alright at that too. I drive one as a rental when I was in Inverness a few months ago on business.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/10/2008-ald-fleet-world-mpg-marathon-toyota-yaris-diesel-aygo.php

They have done some tinkering and they have a 1.0 Diesel that can pull 100mpg and a 1.0 gas that can pull 65 mpg. F - the prius.

Done and done (by Toyota). 1.4D Yaris, over 70mpg. Available for sale in the UK for £8,395 which would be about $10k or so in US Dollars. Drives pretty alright at that too. I drive one as a rental when I was in Inverness a few months ago on business.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/10/2008-ald-fleet-world-mpg-marathon-toyota-yaris-diesel-aygo.php

They have done some tinkering and they have a 1.0 Diesel that can pull 100mpg and a 1.0 gas that can pull 65 mpg. F - the prius.

It is a crime we can't have that here.

I drove my 2009 Jetta TDI just over 400 miles today. Some stop and go, I like to let it run when I stop, so I don't really shut it off.

I pulled 45.7mpg and never really drop below 5 over. Figure 70-75 mph all the way.

It's slow, but not boringly slow like the Prius or the 1.0x...

I can handle 45 mpg; especially since this only has 25k on it and still isn't broken in. And you guys can get one right now too!

I kind of really like the idea of the automakers just making whatever they can come up with, then releasing it to the media and the public before the EPA certification process. I wonder what it would be like if GM released a 100hp 70mpg diesel in the malibu to compete with the camry.

Well, actually it'd be GAME OVER CAMRY

I kind of really like the idea of the automakers just making whatever they can come up with, then releasing it to the media and the public before the EPA certification process. I wonder what it would be like if GM released a 100hp 70mpg diesel in the malibu to compete with the camry.

Well, actually it'd be GAME OVER CAMRY

In my earlier post, that's what I was thinking. I think something would finally snap. I think there would be a huge reaction from the public after they know a car like that is possible.

GM blew it the first time. Anyone remember the diesel Cadillacs? I think this is more of a PR problem than anything.

Toyota's reason for not selling the diesel's over here? They are manufactured elseware and would not be cost effective and they would have to make alterations in order to make them US compliant.

Basically, they have no faith in the US buyer to purchase them.

I wish I could get one of these too, seats 6 and 44mpg

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=177&section=main

or I really wish one of these

http://www.apv-gib.com/model_range/105std/105std_intro.htm

The fustrating part for me is that I've actually driven these, the Mazda in the UK and the LC in Morocco and they are market ready. I got 25 mpg with the diesel LC! How can they continue to put their head in the sand and say we don't want these here in the states!:eek:

What's funny around here is the tree huggers who drive the old Mercedes Diesels and they puke way more black smoke than my stock D-max. People need to be educated on Diesel's. The American car companies need to build a small diesel for cars...
FORD HAS A FESTIVA IN EUROPE THAT GET 65MPG.... ITS A DIESEL, GO FIGURE:D:D

Quote from Detroit News Today:

"Separately, Lutz said GM has scrapped plans to offer diesel engines in the United States, citing costs for emissions controls that can reach $6,000 a vehicle. Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. and other automakers have made similar moves. "

Before you to worried, Lutz was talking about cars.

Mother f**cker... so much for the new GM.

You wanna take on the Toyota you have to do something radical. Coming from a generation who knows nothing but crap from GM in cars (not trucks) they have to do something drastic.

Yes, there are some exceptions like the Panther Platform and the Corvette but come on, anyone here owned a 90's Cavalier or Neon?

A lack of high specific output has always been the bane of US engines.

Back in 2000, Volkswagen had a 1.9 TDi which delivered 150bhp and 236lb/ft stock. The car would do 50mpg all day every day. I owned one.

Now, we have BMWs twin-turbo 3 liter diesel as the pick of many. 282bhp and 428lb/ft at 1750rpm. 34mpg.

My point is that there is only so much economy one can get from an engine larger than 3-4 liters. GM shouldn't be making a 4.5TDi that will get maybe 25mpg in this day and age when BMW likely make more power from their 3 liter.

Yes, these are trucks and power is more important than economy but 282bhp and 428lb/ft is plenty for most applications. When more is needed, "the dinosaur" 6.6L can be specced for its admittedly huge 660lb/ft at 1600rpm.

Tell you what though, the 6 liter V12 TDi fro Audi offers 493bhp and 737lb/ft at 1750rpm....

The BMW 335d is a rocket yet few companies have their expertise in engine building. Too bad they are out of my price range at $50K and I'm now a Jetta TDI kind of guy. BMW's can last forever but it takes some heavy coin to do so. They chew up suspension parts like no tomorrow. All the work is also special tools so it is a royal and expensive pain.

I would actually like to replace my wife's BWM with that car but those days are over.

Face it guys diesel for everybody doesn't work. 7 gallons out of 42 gallons drum of oil is not the way to go and that is why the hybrids sneek in. Let folks go buy the hell out of hybrids and the diesel lovers which will likely always be in the minority can have their cake too.

I read something interesting just a few days ago makes some sense too. An internal combustion engine is not very efficient nor are transmissions rear ends ,etc. So if you either don't drive or use a hybrid your saving like 5 gallons of fuel for every gallon you don't use just in in-efficiencies in the whole oil chain from pulling it out of the ground until the wheels turn. That is why hybrids are all the rage and why the CO2 folks are so behind the hybrids. Don't matter if your not a tree hugger, face it we consume too much oil, plain and simple as that.

I agree we eat too much oil but Hybrid is only a stop gap solution. Nobody mentioned what it takes to build the batteries for those things. I thing high speed rail and more mass transit will help. Where I live the commute to the city is a nightmare, and it is almost impossible to get a rail system from here to there.To many environmentalists with there ridiculously expensive impact reports. I'm a firm believer that Diesel powered vehicles will help us in the future.

I agree we eat too much oil but Hybrid is only a stop gap solution. Nobody mentioned what it takes to build the batteries for those things. I thing high speed rail and more mass transit will help. Where I live the commute to the city is a nightmare, and it is almost impossible to get a rail system from here to there.To many environmentalists with there ridiculously expensive impact reports. I'm a firm believer that Diesel powered vehicles will help us in the future.

please do a little research on the actual cost of mass transit. oh and enromentalist love mass transit, and high density housing. sort of like the Soviet Union....

Look I am far from being an environmentalist. All know is they shut the RR tracks around here a while back so the tracks are already laid, and there are people here that would ride a train to the city. This would free up the frickin traffic jambs on the freeway for people like me, who have to drive a truck for work...

GM blew it the first time. Anyone remember the diesel Cadillacs? I think this is more of a PR problem than anything.

Toyota's reason for not selling the diesel's over here? They are manufactured elseware and would not be cost effective and they would have to make alterations in order to make them US compliant.

Basically, they have no faith in the US buyer to purchase them.

I wish I could get one of these too, seats 6 and 44mpg

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=177&section=main

or I really wish one of these

http://www.apv-gib.com/model_range/105std/105std_intro.htm

The fustrating part for me is that I've actually driven these, the Mazda in the UK and the LC in Morocco and they are market ready. I got 25 mpg with the diesel LC! How can they continue to put their head in the sand and say we don't want these here in the states!:eek:

That toyota is awesome. Factory snorkel. What makes matters worse is Jeep. Jeep builds a heavier duty version of the Wrangler with a Diesel and HD Dana 44's with lockers and it's all stock. That's why the regular Wranglers have another set of bolt holes in the ring gear. (For the diesel models overseas) :mad:

I stopped by 2 VW dealers this weekend. I’ve been looking for a new/used commuter car and I am after a manual TDI. Currently both dealers are out of the 2009 Manual TDI’s because of such high demand. There was only a few Auto TDI’s left on the lot and the used TDI's gone like hot cakes as well. The dealer also informed me that the VW Plant is building them not by request but as they see fit. Thus adding options to these cars to try and increase the vehicle price. They are able to do so because these cars are in such high demand the customers are purchasing them regardless of the options they want / don’t have.

Oh and check these vehicles out. Some of you may or may not have seen these.

Need a vehicle with 100mpg capability on pure diesel? VW might have the answer!
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2012-volkswagen-chico.htm (http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2012-volkswagen-chico.htm)

How about 200mpg capability?!
http://www.volkswagen.com/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/en2/unternehmen/mobility_and_sustainability0/technik___innovation/Forschung/1_Liter_Auto.html (http://www.volkswagen.com/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/en2/unternehmen/mobility_and_sustainability0/technik___innovation/Forschung/1_Liter_Auto.html)
230mpg
75mph top speed
400 mile range

That toyota is awesome. Factory snorkel. What makes matters worse is Jeep. Jeep builds a heavier duty version of the Wrangler with a Diesel and HD Dana 44's with lockers and it's all stock. That's why the regular Wranglers have another set of bolt holes in the ring gear. (For the diesel models overseas) :mad:
I do not believe the front is a 44. the rear sure, BUT not the front.
and what do the extra bolt holes in the ring gear do? nothing from my POV.
Granted yeah the euro guys get a diesel in the JK, but not a Rubi (yeah you can add the parts to make andy JK one) and all the guys I've heard LOVE the diesel JK (I've got my fingers crossed, cause THAT's what I want to get the wife :)

GM blew it the first time. Anyone remember the diesel Cadillacs? I think this is more of a PR problem than anything.

Toyota's reason for not selling the diesel's over here? They are manufactured elseware and would not be cost effective and they would have to make alterations in order to make them US compliant.

Basically, they have no faith in the US buyer to purchase them.

I wish I could get one of these too, seats 6 and 44mpg

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=177&section=main

or I really wish one of these

http://www.apv-gib.com/model_range/105std/105std_intro.htm

The fustrating part for me is that I've actually driven these, the Mazda in the UK and the LC in Morocco and they are market ready. I got 25 mpg with the diesel LC! How can they continue to put their head in the sand and say we don't want these here in the states!:eek:

Everyone says people still remember the dark era of GM diesels back in the 80's or so. I don't believe that - how many have already forgotten 9/11, the halocaust, pearl Harbor and Obama's campaign promises!

Hybrid diesel? Doesnt a diesel work better with heat and the longer it runs? I think a hybrid would kill the efficiency of a diesel. :(

gm made diesels before the duramax. yes diesels like to be upto temp and under load. the ideal would be similar to train/ship diesel electric drives, bring engine to peak torque speed and use generator regulator to control load demand, ecm would feed enough fuel to produce power that vehicle needs to move down road, gm actually had 1liter pancake 4 in european test hybird(volt) but settled on gas here due to epa regs would double power module space for clean diesel.

Everyone says people still remember the dark era of GM diesels back in the 80's or so. I don't believe that - how many have already forgotten 9/11, the halocaust, pearl Harbor and Obama's campaign promises!

"'We will not get this economy back on track, recovery will be not strong and sustained, unless we can convince the American people that we're going to have the will to bring these deficits down once recovery is firmly established,'

Remember the little calculator on his campain site showing how much your family was going to save? LOL, didn't buy it then, don't buy it now. Tell a bunch of morons who already live like a symbiote on the working tax payer that they have the "right" to a higher standard of living and that the source of all their problems is the rich and it is no suprise that they turned out en mass to the poles.

Oh well, let's just pump $2 Billion dollars into cash for clunckers instead of the health care initiative. Where are the real priorities?

Hybrids don't make sense at all. Think of this- every time you convert energy efficiency is lost. a hybrid converts chemical enery to heat enery to mechanical energy to electrical energy back to chemical enery to be stored in a batery for later conversion BACK TO ELECTRICAL ENERY TO BE CONVERTED BACK TO MECHANICAL ENERGY...HOW IS THAT EFFICIENT? remove the hybrid part- the engine converts chemical energy into heat energy into mechanical energy to be used. take that same little 3 cylinder engine, hook it straight to the transmission and you will get at least the same economy if not better.

The whole Hybrid thing is a rediculous hoax not unlike global warming.

The whole Hybrid thing is a rediculous hoax not unlike global warming.

Care to expand on the bolded portion?

Care to expand on the bolded portion?

He is saying gw is a hoax and he is right. http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/global_warming_ice_age/2008/04/24/90591.html

^^^

beat me to it...thanks man.

ALL ENGINES HAVE ENERGY CONVERSION LOSS. Comparing mpg's between the late model VW Tdi and Prius, the Prius does better. Mpg's tell the real story.

ALL ENGINES HAVE ENERGY CONVERSION LOSS. Comparing mpg's between the late model VW Tdi and Prius, the Prius does better. Mpg's tell the real story.

Comparing the total footprint, including the footprint from production, the prius doesn't even come close to being "green"

I had a 88 HB Civic that I took to 425kmiles and averaged 45mpg.

http://www.automobilemag.com/green/reviews/0907_1985_honda_crx_hf_2010_honda_insight/hybrid_sedan.html

I think diesels are the way to go. On average, you will have to replace the hybrid batteries in a Prius at 100k... And that will cost a couple grand. My dad originally bought an 03 LB7. He has 230k on the truck and the only problems he has had are a transfer case and an alternator...

The LB7 sold me and him on diesels. I ditched my 01 HD with a 6.0 for my LLY and my dad just bought a 2009 Jetta TDI. I recently took the Jetta on a 1200 mile round trip from Pittsburgh to Nashville. I averaged 44 mpg running a steady 75 mph.. Ours is a 6 speed so that always helps mpg's. we already have 25k on the Jetta and so far it has been an awesome little car. I personally will never switch back to a gasser. A prius will get about the same mpg's as the TDI but it will not last as long and not to mention they look pretty gay compared to the Jetta.

Comparing the total footprint, including the footprint from production, the prius doesn't even come close to being "green"

Some people can find a reason to complain about anything. Oy! :rolleyes:

I think diesels are the way to go. On average, you will have to replace the hybrid batteries in a Prius at 100k... And that will cost a couple grand.

Please cite your source on the statistical and magically rounded 100k mile average Prius hybrid battery replacement as I know people with first generation prius' running over 250k miles and no issues and I'm not just talking batteries.

http://www.greencar.com/articles/audi-a4-tdie-clean-diesel-bests-prius-combined-51-mpg.php

Too expensive!

So you are going to pay $6K for a diesel engine option and another $6K for the hybrid option? I don't think so and then they really don't complement each other like a gas-hybrid (low end grunt from electric) higher RPM horspower from a gas. Diesel and electric would just give you all low end torque so why have both at that excessive cost?

Hybrids make a lot of sense, (if having a giant SUV makes sense) to tote your kids back and forth to all of their activities. Ifor one don't want to see diesels get popular besides our trucks. It will just push up the price of diesel and if other countries use diesel then gas will be cheaper. Looking at it from that view if we can bring back station wagons and make Hybrid Minivans then gas and hybrid makes a lot of economic sense for the US.



actually electric motors dont exactly have a power band its more like the same amount of torque no matter what rpm and diesels torque decreses dramaticly in the rpm range once it gets past its peak but i believe hp can go up in this case with tuning so the hybrid no matter what way you look at it if you have any forein sorce to help "assist" the engine no matter diesel gas alcohol nitro meth whatever anything assisting it is gonna make it have to work less and get better mpg not to mention whats wrong with huge amounts of low end torque with a diesel electric..can u say cummins killer :rolleyes: that could get ur tires spinning in 4wd pretty quick also the diesel wont mind the added weight and wont loose mpg due to it the smaller hybrid "prius" i think really struggle with that because the little engine has to work so hard to pull the second drive train which is the electric battery and motor on top of the entire car when its not using the electric portion of it "when did we decide it would be a good idea to slap a 6.5 briggs and a golf cart motor in a car???"