Just got my truck back after the ats turbo install and had it up on the dyno. I'm running the edge 125 and the quad 215 with injectors with no lift pump. We made four pulls two with just the edge and two with quad and edge stack. The truck made with just the edge 399 and then 375. The stack made 578 and then 554. My holley blue quit working so I was not able to try with the pump hooked up. Hopefully with a good fuel system I can make what I was expecting 600+.

:eek:

Good numbers. Any bursting?

no there was no bursting.

Is a TC and trans-go the only tranny mods you have done?

no I have a ats trans now with the co pilot and all the goods.

Do you still use the transgo in any way? I know Mike L. posted that he had been doing some fooling around with ATS Co-pilot/Transgo combo.

Is a TC and trans-go the only tranny mods you have done? Dude,
Transgo and a converter are by far not the answer for 600+(no pun intended)http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

no the trans go is gone. I did run around with about 650 hp for about 8 months with just the trans go and the ats converter till the clutches started to wear.

Sorry guys I'm new to this and I was just wondering what bursting is? Thanks to all you guys that have been doing this for a while, it gives us newbies some good info.



04 LB7 25,000 miles
Bully Dog power pup, 4'' stainless, and shift enhancer
Airrade Intake
6" Fabtech
Weld Cheyenne's
315 BFG's

I know that you shouldn't run that much through just those two mods, but that was all that was in his sig. I was just curious if it was holding the power. I figured he just needed to update his sig. but you never know.

What size injectors????? What kind of boost did you see while on the dyno???

the injectors are what dr. performance calls 100 hp injectors don't know why they never made 100 hp. On the dynojet it would see 45 psi.

What are you seeing on the street for boost????? I haven't had time to dyno and am still awaiting a part to hit the dyno, thus the questions. I'm seeing a max boost of 53lbs, but generally in the 45-50 lbs range seems to be the norm.

Sorry guys I'm new to this and I was just wondering what bursting is? Thanks to all you guys that have been doing this for a while, it gives us newbies some good info.



04 LB7 25,000 miles
Bully Dog power pup, 4'' stainless, and shift enhancer
Airrade Intake
6" Fabtech
Weld Cheyenne's
315 BFG's

Dunno exactly, except when running large amounts of fuel through a Dmax, the engine will cut out during acceleration. Some do, some don't.

I am also seeing the same boost.

Twins are putting out big boost #'s

It takes 2- 3/4" Blow offs to keep up to the steep boost ramp that the HPCR engines have. 1 Valve could not keep up to the output so we installed 2!:eek:

2 valves, lighter spring, backed out almost all the way 48 PSIG.
more is available, but no studs for me yet!

Twins are putting out big boost #'s

It takes 2- 3/4" Blow offs to keep up to the steep boost ramp that the HPCR engines have. 1 Valve could not keep up to the output so we installed 2!:eek:

2 valves, lighter spring, backed out almost all the way 48 PSIG.
more is available, but no studs for me yet!
I wish you would stop blowing all that hot air about twins down from canada, it was 85 Degrees here in Ohio today!.




Where's the big horsepower #'?
14 second 1/4's isn't too impressive.

):h

with the Aurora 5000 turbo the ATS Duramax made 679hp on diesel only

Where's the big horsepower #'?
14 second 1/4's isn't too impressive.
I realize my times weren't really impressive but I also hope you weren't expecting me to keep up with Tomac in my LLY yet, were you?

Don't take this the wrong way. I just don't want people comparing my times in an underfueled LLY to the times of a not-so-underfueld LB7 (Tomac).

I realize there is probably going to be a new set of "groups" now. Those with twins and those with bigger chargers. Just like those with ATS and those with Suncoast. Just like those with Quad and those with TTS.

chad, put some honed nozzles in the LLY

with the Aurora 5000 turbo the ATS Duramax made 671rwhp on diesel only
:ro) Great Run Mike!:ro)

I think the comments that have a somewhat negative tone are more questions than anything.

On the surface it would appear simple that, hey, you run a big stack or the Extreme and hey, you're pouring black smoke and making lots of power....and especially when they go on spray. So the conclusion being jumped to is "all we need is a bigger turbo".

Then more air shows up and the results aren't blistering trucks into hyperspace.

So the dream of "bingo, 700 HP" is still alive but sounds like it's not a simple as us desk jockeys thought and some tweaking is still needed.

I appreciate all of you guys hanging your parts way out there for the benefit of the rest of us.

I think the comments that have a somewhat negative tone are more questions than anything.

On the surface it would appear simple that, hey, you run a big stack or the Extreme and hey, you're pouring black smoke and making lots of power....and especially when they go on spray. So the conclusion being jumped to is "all we need is a bigger turbo".

Then more air shows up and the results aren't blistering trucks into hyperspace.

So the dream of "bingo, 700 HP" is still alive but sounds like it's not a simple as us desk jockeys thought and some tweaking is still needed.

I appreciate all of you guys hanging your parts way out there for the benefit of the rest of us.
The only negative of running more Tcharger, be it single or twin, is that turbos need to 'see' heat before they work... in other words, they do rob some heat energy to spool the turbo. Nitrous does not have that negative. However, you DO need to refill nitrous.
Turbos are less 'filling':lol:

(Bad Pun I Know.... Sorry in advance!)

Yeah, Juice, I agree with you, but from a cost basis you're far into the point of diminishing returns.

For $5k, personally, I'd need a BIG performance jump. And it may still be there, but not quite yet.

Just by "telling" a Dmax to go faster, it seems to have fairly well balanced components. You run out of fuel about the same time you run out of air, which is about twice the stock engine output.

As the big turbos become more common, the issue of fueling will become the weak link.

If you want to play you got to pay. there is a lot more to be had it is just a matter of time, the story of a duramax owner.

Yeah McRat and 600+, I agree.

I was dreaming the other day of selling some stuff and maybe making some plans for the ATS single. If I want to pull, a single makes the most sense....I have no place pulling against the twin charger guys with seemingly unlimited budgets.

But if I were to break the piggy bank on that and then find out that yet more work is needed, I think I have to wait.

So again thanks to everyone pushing the envelope and sharing here.

Each setup will have its pro's and con's. The single IMO is the better way to go for the pullers as you can still stay out of the Pro stock type classes that your in with the twins, and we just are not competitive with the big D's yet.

I think the Twins will work great for the everyday guy. Alot of it will come down to price as well. Either way, its not a cheap upgrade.

big singles and compounds are adding air and compressing (heating) it where nitrous is adding air while cooling the intake charge as well

Yeah, Mike, something I still can't figure out is why there isn't a unlimited super stock diesel pulling class that lets people run whatever....

I just don't get the whole "drugs are bad" thing for truck pulling.

If you're pulling street-legal diesel and the guy in the Dodge next to you can run a huge single and you have a stock turbo....well gee whiz.....whaddya think ya gonna get?

Yeah, Mike, something I still can't figure out is why there isn't a unlimited super stock diesel pulling class that lets people run whatever....

I just don't get the whole "drugs are bad" thing for truck pulling.

If you're pulling street-legal diesel and the guy in the Dodge next to you can run a huge single and you have a stock turbo....well gee whiz.....whaddya think ya gonna get?
Beat.

Put on a huge singe too. Not like you can't bolt one on now.

Its the sport, its diesel truck pulling. Its not diesel-nitrous truck pulling.

Plus what would be the fun of a truck pull with no smoke.

Yeah, Mike, something I still can't figure out is why there isn't a unlimited super stock diesel pulling class that lets people run whatever....

I just don't get the whole "drugs are bad" thing for truck pulling.

If you're pulling street-legal diesel and the guy in the Dodge next to you can run a huge single and you have a stock turbo....well gee whiz.....whaddya think ya gonna get?
But if their allowed to run that big single in their dodge than why cant you? I have yet to be to a pull where the say only the dodges can have a 2.8 inducer and the duramax must retain stock turbo. Matt

Yeah, Mike, something I still can't figure out is why there isn't a unlimited super stock diesel pulling class that lets people run whatever....

I just don't get the whole "drugs are bad" thing for truck pulling.

If you're pulling street-legal diesel and the guy in the Dodge next to you can run a huge single and you have a stock turbo....well gee whiz.....whaddya think ya gonna get?
Some pulls have an exhibition class that allows it no?

Got Juice?, some brush pulls allow drugs

Kyle03D, hopefully it will still be fun because I don't have any smoke without nitrous

Matt and Kyle-

I agree with your points, but just one exception - if you were trying to have a street class where for the sake of keeping costs down and power (and entertainment) up, running the bottle would make a lot of sense. From a pure economic point of view, I'm looking at spending $4-5k for the same performance that can be had from a $600 kit, right?

Yeah, it does kill the smoke....OK so you got me there ):h

You guys better not make too much fun of me....was thinking of heading your way once the $$$ gets figured out :D

I guess the other thing that makes me a little nutty is that Full Pull Productions that does most of the events local to me, has a "street legal diesel" class with NO inducer size limit.

I guess the wording "street legal" is being stretched to its limit....

I mean, gee whiz, that's the class that SledPuller is going into, and it's kinda like, hey, why go blow almost $10k (tranny and turbo) to get beaten constantly with someone whose "street" truck appears to be WAY more than that.

Sorry for the whine....gimme some cheese :(

The money problem comes into play with any motorsport. I know the DHRA and others would like to advance diesel performance which means spending money. Even after buying a turbo for a duramax, the costs are quite close to those running a competetive cummins at 600hp. Its all good.

Mike, you better do somthing about that. The fun factor may be seriously reduced without smoke. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

That is an interesting street class.

Gene daily drives his truck. He's not a threat anyway. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

just for my own curiosity what is the cost and difficulty of stickin a moderate sized charger on a dodge...then compare that cost to the dmax along with headstuds. im not lookin for a "if you wanna play you gotta pay" or "that's the sport. i just want a cost comparison and a comparison of the difficulty of the install. not tryin to be rude just tryin to get the answer i wanted.

cause i know several people that can swap out their stock turbo and injects on a dodge in a matter of a couple hours vs 2 days of work for the dmax.

600+ good to hear everything is workin out!

it takes more than turbo, nozzles & programming to get 600rwhp from a Cummins

Just by "telling" a Dmax to go faster, it seems to have fairly well balanced components. You run out of fuel about the same time you run out of air, which is about twice the stock engine output.

As the big turbos become more common, the issue of fueling will become the weak link.
Has anyone found out how much the Bottom end of the motor is good for yet?

Ryan U :D hit the nail on the head...

Seems like the pullers are so hung up on "no drugs." Why?

The drag racing boys are already there:
$ 700 propane
$ 600 nitrous
$ 500 water/meth

= $1800. (tranny and big program not included since they are common to both)

With the ATS 5000, we start at $3800 and we're not sure yet how much $$$ it's going to take to make it run to its full potential. $1000? Totally modded CP3 cost?

Would it not make more sense to have:

Street stock (stock turbo) - average guy wanting to try, have fun
Hot Stock (add drugs) - one step up for certified dieselheads
Pro Stock (aftermarket turbo(s) + drugs) ...obsession-level
Super Stock (kitchen sink) .....lunatic fringe with sponsor money, etc.

And I say give everyone all the traction they want....let everyone run clamps and bars. Who cares about seeing who can keep their thing from bouncing all over the place....:sleep:

I'm not sure why the pulling community is hung up on no drugs for diesels while the dragracing community allows drugs to be used liberally

Ryan U :D hit the nail on the head...

Seems like the pullers are so hung up on "no drugs." Why?

The drag racing boys are already there:
$ 700 propane
$ 600 nitrous
$ 500 water/meth

= $1800. (tranny and big program not included since they are common to both)

With the ATS 5000, we start at $3800 and we're not sure yet how much $$$ it's going to take to make it run to its full potential. $1000? Totally modded CP3 cost?

Would it not make more sense to have:

Street stock (stock turbo) - average guy wanting to try, have fun
Hot Stock (add drugs) - one step up for certified dieselheads
Pro Stock (aftermarket single turbo + drugs) ...obsession-level
Super Stock (kitchen sink) .....lunatic fringe with sponsor money, etc.

And I say give everyone all the traction they want....let everyone run clamps and bars. Who cares about seeing who can keep their thing from bouncing all over the place....:sleep:Not sure about down there, but the reason we do not allow "drugs" up here is, insurance costs are too high. Back when i first started pulling, i thought it was stupid to not have a class for drugs. Now that i've been pulling for a couple of years, i totally agree, it should be done on # 2. Makes for better competition and is a true test of diesel knowledge and truck set-up, rather than throwing the kitchen sink at the truck and hoping it doesn't blow up.(not that i'm saying it will, but you have to look at it as an insurance company that knows jack about this chit)

Different classes would help, but where does it stop, you'll never keep everyone happy, and this is competition...............rule # 19 up here states-NO WHINING :D

I think you might as well do away with the street class if you allow drugs. If you could spray then all the dmax's in the class would be near the 600 mark anyway.

From the #'s posted lately(track and dyno), spraying makes more power than a turbo.
So if you could spray in the street class, us dmax guys would be cabable of having the same power as the pro-stock class, doesn't really make much sense to me.

Tomac and Jess and others(like you) have more time tweaking drugs than 90% of the guys that buy a turbo kit and slap it on a truck but some how their power is made taking the easy way out or not advancing "diesel performance" becasue they are injecting other things into the chamber beside air and #2? Then throw in finding out what programs work and what small little mods help and suspention set up and driver.

It boils down to the original bombers tweaking turbos and spending alot of hard work on them and getting them to preform. Alot of em were also towing guys and bigger chargers are difinatly needed to bring the egt's down. You get them teaching the next gen and you quickly get a large group that views drugs as "cheating" and taking the easy way out. No real work or tuning done to make that stuff work:rolleyes: Lately the Dodge guys are also threatend by the duramaxes and I think that is also driving some of the no drugs attitude. The gasser world is changing but there is an "all motor" battle cry. Funny how few peoples oppinions can become oppinions of the masses quickly.

I thought truck pulling and drag racing was all about competition. Sounds like ricer whinning.....he is lighter than me, he has more displacment, he has NAAAAWS :blahblah: :bawl:

JMO

Whats the problem with the street class having either a bigger single or spray?

My opinion remains that a street class should not allow "hard parts" modifications.

Why?

Because I don't have any!!! WAAA!!!! :D

Allowing nitrous in street class just means the cost of racing sportsman class goes up $500-1000. Those people who run bigger pumps, injectors, turbos, will just add a bottle on top of it, and in turn the higher HP means even more hard parts in the driveline will be necessary.

In the end, those who are in charge of the rulebook will slant the rules to suit their needs. It would be nice if Street class didn't allow turbo mods, but too many existing pullers already have them, and some makes would not be competitive without a bigger one.

Jeremy, I hear you, but I'll debate a couple of things:

1) if drugs were blowing trucks to smithereens, then they wouldn't be allowed on drag strips either. Maybe that day is coming, maybe it's nothing to worry about. Compared to other stuff running on the same track, I think the risk is small.

2) if you're going to run Pro Stock and Super Stock diesel tractors with the trucks, there's no comparison, those are the guys who are going to send something into the crowd if it happens. Again, the risk is probably small in comparison.

Diesel performance, to me, is any way you can make the numbers.

If the hobby is intended to be expensive, well, seems like the pulling organizations are doing a good job.

Must be some vast right-wing conspiracy with the turbo makers ):h

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but if you can make just as much HP using spray then it would seem there would be no place for bigger charges?

If Tomac could use spray in the pulling arena, I doubt he would've upgraded his charger.(He cleaned up all his smoke with NOS)

It just seems weird to me that a Dmax could make more power in the street class using NOS, than the Dmax running in the class above running a bigger charger. Maybe I'm wrong?:confused:

Noting would stop the dodge guys ect from running it. And yes I would bet the only reason Mike added a turbo is becasue of class restrictions. You would probably end up with a class filled with guys on the bottle.

Jeremy, I hear you, but I'll debate a couple of things:

1) if drugs were blowing trucks to smithereens, then they wouldn't be allowed on drag strips either. Maybe that day is coming, maybe it's nothing to worry about. Compared to other stuff running on the same track, I think the risk is small.

2) if you're going to run Pro Stock and Super Stock diesel tractors with the trucks, there's no comparison, those are the guys who are going to send something into the crowd if it happens. Again, the risk is probably small in comparison.

Diesel performance, to me, is any way you can make the numbers.

If the hobby is intended to be expensive, well, seems like the pulling organizations are doing a good job.

Must be some vast right-wing conspiracy with the turbo makers ):h1.I'm personally not saying the trucks will blow up, but remember its an outside source of fuel/air, i'm sure insurance companies don't fully understand the art of making power with those added, thus its too much of a risk, basically $$$$$$$$$(remember these or small venues that have to find there own outside insurance, unlike a race track that has full coverage as thats the only thing happening there).
The crowd is also alot closer to the action then in drag racing, thus the higher potential of if something let go or what have you, is higher than if at the races. Don't forget there isn't near the stress on components while racing compared to dragging a sled on the dirt, other than staging at the track. I fully understand what your saying, but again i don't make the rules :o:

Now this is for up here in the north, not sure if thats why there aren't many/if any pulls south of the border not allowing drugs, but thats why they are not allowed up here. We were told last year, that if anyone was caught with alternative fuels, game over, there will be no next season :eek: as there will be no insurance coverage :(

2. This is true, as well as Mitchells, Shieds and Haisleys mod class has way more potential to let something fly into the crowd(they do have blankets and such), but nonetheless there is always the potential in the other classes. I can't remember the story and it was before my pulling time, but a 5500lb stock 4x4 class up here let loose and parts went into the crowd. Thankfully no one got hurt, but those trucks do not have high hp and basically are a step above a street legal truck. So the potential is always there regardless of power.

Yes diesel performance is still about the final hp # or how far you pull or how fast you run the quarter in, but we have to stay within the rules. Maybe its just one of those things that this has been the way its been run for 50 years and this is the only way its done, and no way, no how are we changing the rules.................maybe just need some younger blood in behind the scenes.

[QUOTEMust be some vast right-wing conspiracy with the turbo makers ):h[/QUOTE]You might be on to something with that statement :exactly:

I think if you allow NOS in one class you would have to allow it in all of them.

I guess to me it just doesn't make much since, if the "street" guys are making more power on NOS, than the guys in the class above running bigger chargers.
I don't know if the dodge guys do, but for now it seems the Dmax does. As Tomac said: cooler intake charge, no loss due to heat, cleans up all the smoke etc.

On edit: I do see what you all are saying about it being cheaper. And about the Cummins guys griping, because obviously the Dmax would rule these classes if they allowed drugs.

It would be much easier for us, than for most of the Cummins guys, because they don't have the luxury of turning down there box. They pretty much have the same fuel all the time. We can turn ours up for the spray and then turn it down to drive home.

Slick, it doesn't make sense. That's why I'm sniping. I betcha nitrous on Tomac's machine would have been bad to the bone and would have embarrassed some other trucks with big chargers.

HBC, there's a couple things you said that got me thinking:

1) you could have a "kaboom" experience with nitrous and propane. Something happens in the top of the engine that lets fire into the intake system, where it's now flammable, and I can see ugly things happening. Either dragging or pulling. I don't know if people are using enough propane to get to flammable conditions though. You would need heat to break down the nitrous and then *bang*.

2) It could be that the wilder classes of tractors could be safer with all the SFI blanketing and shields they are required to run. Street classes don't require much around here, although as of this year, Full Pull Productions IS requiring bellhousing blankets in the street legal diesel class. With no inducer limit, huh, yeah, I get it....

I agree with everyone that the rules got started by a few people and generally are slow to change because everyone gets their panties in a knot.

This parts makes the most sense.

NOS is not an approved motor fuel on the street.

Propane could be considered a street vehicle as it is an approved motor fuel.

It is easy to make HP numbers with drugs, and i concede that power is cool, it does take more engineering, more $$$$$ and more sweat equity to make those numbers on #2 only.

So. I guess if you were a long time puller who invested lots of $$$$$ to make your street diesel #2 single charger truck competetive, a rule change to include NOS would only set them back what? 5 or 10K in their own R&D? if it was allowed?

Just my .02

So the real question it what EGT's are you seeing at 600hp with the new ATS turbo???? I know anything close to that on a stock one it well over 1200* I thought that was one of the main advantages to a larger turbo... higher boost that = lower EGT's Right?

Juice, you goof, nitrous ain't fuel, it's air.

Now the government has to approve our air? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

I agree with everyone that the rules got started by a few people and generally are slow to change because everyone gets their panties in a knot.
Mat...The problem with changing the rules often is that many competitors have their truck set up a certian way..While some things can be easily added and have no true bearing on how competitive the truck is (drive shaft loops, trans blankets, kill switches) things that are of the performance nature are a completely different issue and usually very expensive to add or change...
The "brush pulls" are usually much more lenient on what they allow...Hell, sometimes the rules (if there are any rules beyond the weight classes) are just in some guys head and not written down..makes for interesting arguements ):h

Yeah, PG, I know......if I was already part of the "in" crowd, I'd be voting for status quo too.

Keep the young punk rifraff tuner geeks out http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

It would screw alot of guys that have alread bought the chargers yes. And that would have to be considered

I still say for the most part there isnt much R&D in putting a charger on a cummins. How many kits are there? I can stand see and stand any of the arguments from the just #2 guys but this one becasue 1/2 the time people saying it are ones that went out and bought a kit and bolted it on. Now the guys that are doing thier own thing......THAT IS COOL. But the guys talking about all the work they did making it run X on number 2 that just bolted someone elses product on??? I took a trans from SC and stuffed it into my truck, that took work and it was a PITA but was it anything real technical that required R&D and my experience will move diesel performance forward? No B olted some one elses **** on my truck. Yes it cost me money and time. Most guys running turbos i would say are just running "bolt on" mods I better stop before this:rant: gets too outa controll

I know this might not make much since to some, but it would seem to me that the more logical place for drugs would be in the Pro-stock class. That way they are still making more power than the street class.
Then you could still limit inducer size in the street class. And in the pro-stock class run whatever size big single you want or run NOS. I think they kinda do it in drag-racing like this-some run superchargers, others run turbos, and still other run NOS all in the same class.

I think the rules for charger size in the street class should be limted to the inducer size of the largest stock turbo available on any of the motors. i.e. if the dmax uses a 2.5 inducer then they would have to use the stock charger, but the dodge, and ford guys could upgrade to the same size. That to me would be a true street class.

Just got my truck back after the ats turbo install and had it up on the dyno. I'm running the edge 125 and the quad 215 with injectors with no lift pump. We made four pulls two with just the edge and two with quad and edge stack. The truck made with just the edge 399 and then 375. The stack made 578 and then 554. My holley blue quit working so I was not able to try with the pump hooked up. Hopefully with a good fuel system I can make what I was expecting 600+.
From the start again....... :offtopic: .......The last six pages might be interesting, but..

600+ duramax
What is the price of the ATS Turbo ? Injectors ? Install ?
Also, I'm confused as to why you get no bursting with that hp. In any event those hp # are very nice numbers.
I like the fact of ways to build horspower without spray. I know the cost for a Turbo and injectors is more than spray, but I feel maybe a little more easy to work with.
Spray reminds me too much of having to run race gas every time I went to the track.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif Hey Rat, now, if we all had to program our own tuners, now that'd separate the men from the boys http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

Talk about huge gains with zero R&D! Do you have to even be literate to put a Juice on? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

gmccall-

crankitupdiesel.com is listing the ATS 5000 at $3800 and change. I don't think that's installed, but they would have to answer that.

Injectors over at Kennedy's are $1200 exchange and $3000 if you want your own set.

From what I gather, neither install is a cakewalk. Like a day for each (or more), ask dmaxallitech.

Got turbo job no 3 going right now in the garage. Also doing studs with it. Total time to do the job will be in the near 15-18 hours total time depending on how your factory turbo comes out. Downpipe/uppipe bolts are some tight SOB's and not a good angle to get to them unless the trans is out. So figure on pulling the trans to do the job to simplify things. I dont see much time trimming for install no 4 and 5 that are coming up either..

If your looking to add a turbo/studs/injectors... you better set aside about 7500.00..

Final cost will depend on what you do for injectors of course.

Makes that tranny ya just spent 4k on seem cheap huh? LOL

If your looking to add a turbo/studs/injectors... you better set aside about 7500.00..
:eek:

It seems like a simple job but from personal experience there's a lot more to it than one thinks about. Although I didn't replace a charger I helped add one and there is just so many little things that one doesn't think about.

:jawdrop: now i found a way to afford a tranny, i dont even know if i could sell my body and get that kind of green for that thing. can you make a special tool so that you dont have to drop the tranny?(havent looked yet)

Chad, you have been present for alot of your upgrades, including the injectors we did last summer... Lots of small steps that add up. Your trans upgrade was too I bet...

I have to think that adding one would be more work on one hand, but better if your retaining the stock charger ( if you keep the stock charger).

So the real question it what EGT's are you seeing at 600hp with the new ATS turbo???? I know anything close to that on a stock one it well over 1200* I thought that was one of the main advantages to a larger turbo... higher boost that = lower EGT's Right?

I'm saw a 200 degree drop in EGT's with more fuel. 1800 with the stock turbo and stock injectors and 1600 degrees with the ATS turbo and KD 20% over injectors.

The problem with allowing nitrous is everyone will have to have it and the guys that don't will be at a disadvantage. A heavily overfueled Cummins will make more power with a big single and nitrous than a currently underfueled Duramax with a big single.

A heavily overfueled Cummins will make more power with a big single and nitrous than a currently underfueled Duramax with a big single.
What would stop someone from putting a 1300cc p-pump on a cummins "street puller" and shooting it with a boat load of nitrous. I think this rule would be to the disadvantage of the dmax's because of the ability to add fuel to a cummins is endless where we still have a lot of work cutout for the duramax fuel system.

On another note, if we think back to tractor pullers which ones are allowed to run NOS? Matt

On another note, if we think back to tractor pullers which ones are allowed to run NOS? Matt

none of the classes allow nitrous in tractor pulling

2 very good points......didnt think about that.

I think dpfcummins better explained what I was trying too in my previous post.

From the start again....... :offtopic: .......The last six pages might be interesting, but..

600+ duramax
What is the price of the ATS Turbo ? Injectors ? Install ?
Also, I'm confused as to why you get no bursting with that hp. In any event those hp # are very nice numbers.
I like the fact of ways to build horspower without spray. I know the cost for a Turbo and injectors is more than spray, but I feel maybe a little more easy to work with.
Spray reminds me too much of having to run race gas every time I went to the track.I think all for the answers to my questions. Prices are a ball buster for sure. Actually "" Censored ""
Nitrous is sounding a little better.

I just thought parts for my Turbo Buick was costly.

Greg McCall

The Rules do not allow nitrous.

I heard first hand from one of the pullers that NOS can and is done - and the lengths gone to to hide it are rather extreme.

The exact quote was "everyone in this class is cheating, but we're all big boys, and if we lose, we gotta learn how to cheat better than them."

:D

One more thought about the Duramax upgraded Turbo and injector prices.
The prices mentioned in this post are near twice for high quality new parts for say a Turbo Buick car.
Any reason ? Is there a momentarilly corner on the market for the Duramax diesel parts ?
:confused:

ATS is the only one making a bigger single charger right now, so they can charge pretty much whatever they want, and there are going to be a few die-hards that will buy them.

gmccall-

crankitupdiesel.com is listing the ATS 5000 at $3800 and change. I don't think that's installed, but they would have to answer that.

Injectors over at Kennedy's are $1200 exchange and $3000 if you want your own set.

From what I gather, neither install is a cakewalk. Like a day for each (or more), ask dmaxallitech.
The Turbo Kits run $ 3,812.50 and we chage $500 to Install it.

The Head Studs are $749 and we charge $500 to install them.

We can do any size honed nozzles for $750 and Install them for free with a Head Stud Install +$25 in gaskets. (otherwise $500).

Looking at a little under $6400 installed for Turbo, Studs, and Injectors.

The Turbo Kits run $ 3,812.50 and we chage $500 to Install it.

The Head Studs are $749 and we charge $500 to install them.

We can do any size honed nozzles for $750 and Install them for free with a Head Stud Install +$25 in gaskets. (otherwise $500).

Looking at a little under $6400 installed for Turbo, Studs, and Injectors.
Kyle03D
Is there a predicted horsepower gain for these products, all else being able to handle the power ? Any comparisons on the Dyno or track yet ?

):h Kyle-

I don't see the Visa/Mastercard logos on your site yet....

:rotflmao:

The Rules do not allow nitrous.

I heard first hand from one of the pullers that NOS can and is done - and the lengths gone to to hide it are rather extreme.

The exact quote was "everyone in this class is cheating, but we're all big boys, and if we lose, we gotta learn how to cheat better than them."

:D
I was at a dyno event and listend to a cummins guy brag about cheating and hiding N2O......and then started talking about how a duramax cant make power on just #2 as soon as I left:rolleyes: (my bud hung around, I guess he didnt seem me come with him or something???) Why be proud of cheating? You may have a trophy but you didnt win IMO.

Rat, I'm not suggesting it's right. I'm totally not that kind of guy, and if I beat someone by cheating, I'd feel bad and probably lose sleep and then fess up and get my arse kicked.

But anyway, if I had reasonably stong knowledge that skirting the rules was commonplace in a class, I'm sure I'd be tempted to follow suit.

Remember, this was coming from someone with probably a quarter-million dollar tractor....the "unlimited" super stockers. My assumption is that at that level, winning is the only thing that matters and crying foul on someone is going to look childish. I would bet that the teardowns due to protests are probably nonexistent with the guys who are pushing all the limits and have significant sponsor money. The class is called "unlimited"!

But getting back to a bunch of everyday guys drinking beers and having fun, cheating would be kinda stupid - the win would feel pretty hollow....at least it would to me.

Oh....I agree 100% and relize you werent saying it was. We are on the same page:)

I was just stalking about something I saw. This guy had a different single, made close to 600 on pane IIRCa bit less without it. He wouldnt be in the big boy class. I thought the lower levels were about having fun? Guess not to some:rolleyes:

Cheaters will be in any sport, if thats the way they want to be, too bad they have no morals. I do know its very satisfying when you kick a cheaters arse and all they can do is scratch there head why :muahaha: probably the most satisfying feeling i've had while pulling :ro)

Cheaters will be in any sport, if thats the way they want to be, too bad they have no morals. I do know its very satisfying when you kick a cheaters arse and all they can do is scratch there head why :muahaha: probably the most satisfying feeling i've had while pulling :ro)
:exactly: There's a few things that drive a guy to cheat in pulling...(1) no being competitive for quite some time (2) intense grudge against another puller (3) brand wars (4) cash payback for winning..of course, there are others too
However, in all the pulls I've been at/pulled in the pulls that paid back the most always had the guys the broke the rules the most..

cheating is everywhere, just like air. i have them down here too. i guess they will just have to look harder, which makes the guys teching take longer and now the line to pull is longer, and i am starting to get mad becuase i am in line for so long, becuase some people cheat :mad:

Back to the ATS 5000.....

I was just kind of amusing myself at what would happen if somehow I got one and then had some warranty issue.....wonder what the look on the service manager's face would be?

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/wtf.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/jawdrop.gif and then http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rotflmao.gif and then http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/flipa.gif

and then I'd be, like http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/shootself.gif

Back to the ATS 5000.....

I was just kind of amusing myself at what would happen if somehow I got one and then had some warranty issue.....wonder what the look on the service manager's face would be?

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/wtf.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/jawdrop.gif and then http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rotflmao.gif and then http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/flipa.gif

and then I'd be, like http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/shootself.gif
Gee, I would think a good engineer could think of a way to hide it ):h

Yeah I'd have the pull out the old disappearing fluid http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

One big plus to N2O.......as long as the dont ask what the blue bottle in the tool box is for):h

Where are you Kyle? Marysville? Now I have to get my truck paid off, and save about $11,000 for all that plus a tranny upgrade:eek: Sounds like a very fair price! As for the Buick, the 5000 seires turbo is about the size of the Buick engine, so of course it will cost a lot more.:eek:

The Turbo Kits run $ 3,812.50 and we chage $500 to Install it.

The Head Studs are $749 and we charge $500 to install them.

We can do any size honed nozzles for $750 and Install them for free with a Head Stud Install +$25 in gaskets. (otherwise $500).

Looking at a little under $6400 installed for Turbo, Studs, and Injectors.

After reading Tomac's Post, I have reservations about cost vs hp for the upgraded Turbo and injectors. He is getting 3-4 tenths in the 1/4 mile above stock for $6800 + -.
That's rough on the pocket book. May ween out a few of us.

Tomacs decision I'm sure was totaly based on the truck pulls. I think he knew getting into this that he could make more HP on the [wank wank]dyno[/wank wank] or do better on the strip with spray but with the pulling ruels set up how they are the turbo made sense to him.

For someone who is just concerend with 1/4 mile times I see absolutly no reason to not use spray with the stock turbo. Any one see anything I'm not short of 30#'s or so that all the N2O weighs?

The turbo will add gobs of power, but regardless, you just hit another stumbling block....your out of fuel now and I dont care what lift pump you have. CP3 mods are next

My thoughts exactly Ratlover, and a big relief ($$) that the Turbo/injectors did not result in numbers more to my liking.

Now since that $6800 + bla bla bla has been rolling around in my head, a first class N2o system can't cost too much. Not that I will go that way.

Gee, I would think a good engineer could think of a way to hide it ):hGet rid of the purple paint would be a good start ):h

Clints truck rolled 671 hp on #2 only with the 5000 turbo/injectors/ reworked CP3.


My thoughts exactly Ratlover, and a big relief ($$) that the Turbo/injectors did not result in numbers more to my liking.

Now since that $6800 + bla bla bla has been rolling around in my head, a first class N2o system can't cost too much. Not that I will go that way.

Clints truck rolled 671 hp on #2 only with the 5000 turbo/injectors/ reworked CP3.
Has anyone seen it do this or is this more flywheel Hp stuff?

That is according to Mike at ATS. I dunno any specifics on it other then it was made as a passing statement.

I assume it was made on there in house Mustang.... Until it can be repeated a few times on a few trucks, its not really usefull info.

After reading Tomac's Post, I have reservations about cost vs hp for the upgraded Turbo and injectors. He is getting 3-4 tenths in the 1/4 mile above stock for $6800 + -.
That's rough on the pocket book. May ween out a few of us.

I'm about 1.5-2 tenths slower and 1.5-2 mph slower with a 100# heavier truck with the ATS turbo and KD injectors than I was with the stock turbo and stock injectors with nitrous. This is because I'm now compressing and heating the air alot more and on top of that I've lost the cooling effect of nitrous. But just imagine what adding propane and nitrous with the big turbo would do in the 1/4 mile.

Clint did it on a Superflow dyno at a local dyno day in CO.

So now that you have the big turbo do you think the Banks intercooler would actually be helpful? Seems like a propely sized intercooler might be worthwhile? Maybe Banks would send you a demo? Yeah right.

It might help

671rwhp??? :eek:

First 10 second Duramax if he adds drugs? Certainly deep into the 11's on #2.

Clints' truck isn't setup the greatest for Dragracing with a 6" lift and 35" tires

What did Clint do to the CP3? Are they planning on releasing anything for it?

Slick, ?? & yes

correction, Clint was running propane when he made 679.8 rwhp but no NOS or water/meth

Tomac, I guess you have talked to them about the CP3, have they given you a time table on anything yet?

I'm about 1.5-2 tenths slower and 1.5-2 mph slower with a 100# heavier truck with the ATS turbo and KD injectors than I was with the stock turbo and stock injectors with nitrous. This is because I'm now compressing and heating the air alot more and on top of that I've lost the cooling effect of nitrous. But just imagine what adding propane and nitrous with the big turbo would do in the 1/4 mile.

:eek: :exactly: :D

Slick, they are reworking them. Specifics unsure, but upping the volume on them. They have done a few and are doing a few more...

there will be several cp3 pumps hitting the market fairly soon

King D, are we talking $500 / $1000 / $2000?

A rough ballpark would do.

And how much work is it to change a cp3?

Is the consensus that one of these new c3po's ):h will make lift pumps unnecessary??

And how much work is it to change a cp3?

It is a very big job. The whole front assy has to come off the engine to get at it.

Is the consensus that one of these new c3po's ):h will make lift pumps unnecessary??

I don't think so. The reworked pumps are likely focusing on increasing capacity on the high pressure side. It is still an excellent idea to keep the low pressure side stocked with fuel at all times.

Is the consensus that one of these new c3po's ):h will make lift pumps unnecessary?? No, but if you wait a little longer the new R2D2 model should take care of all your needs.:D

No, but if you wait a little longer the new R2D2 model should take care of all your needs.:D
I want the Chewbaca Signature Series Pump.

In OH and KY they'll call it the chewintabacca model http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

It is a very big job. The whole front assy has to come off the engine to get at it.

About 5-6 hours it took, that also included going out for lunch(1hr+) and screwing around joking and the likes, and trying to work around that big hair dryer :eek:

Jer,

Don't embarass me like that:o:, 5-6 hours with lunch, it was my first one & I wasn't under the time pressure of flat rate, that's my story & I'm sticking to it. Any how it's still not a bad job, easier than injectors, all just nuts & bolts. I guess it's a good thing no one knows I did the work, whew.

Todd.:);)

Sounds good!!!

Jer,

Don't embarass me like that:o:, 5-6 hours with lunch, it was my first one & I wasn't under the time pressure of flat rate, that's my story & I'm sticking to it. Any how it's still not a bad job, easier than injectors, all just nuts & bolts. I guess it's a good thing no one knows I did the work, whew.

Todd.:);)

I figure there was only probably 3-4 hours of actual work, and the rest was spent picking on me, and of coarse when FG came over, you were off playing your favorite game of darts :eek: ):h ):h and of coarse the hour drive to Quiznos and the hour drive back to the shop, longest time i've spent in a vehicle just to have a sub :p: