This gets brought up all the time, and it was a car towing a trailer.... BUT it can and does happen



<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=537>Woman dies after car hit by overloaded trailer

<!!!!!! ------ format author and dates table------ !!!!!><TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=4 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle><!!!!!! ------ Authors ------ !!!!!><!-- Attribute tag did not render. Message was: Attribute type or value NewsCredit in the ObjectType NewsStoryAuthorCredit at index(0) does not exist -->Dan Viens (dan.viens@9news.com) (Web Producer) </TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle><!!!!!! ------ Dates ------ !!!!!><TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0 bgColor=#f5f5f5 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Created: <SCRIPT type=text/javascript>var d = new Date(1113774894454);d = new Date( d.getTime() + ((d.getTimezoneOffset() - (6 * 60)) * 60 * 1000) );var formatedDate = "";formatedDate += (d.getMonth() + 1) + "/" + d.getDate() + "/" + d.getFullYear() + " ";if (d.getHours() == 0) { formatedDate += "12";} else if (d.getHours() > 12) { formatedDate += d.getHours() - 12;} else { formatedDate += d.getHours();}formatedDate += ":";if (d.getMinutes() < 10) { formatedDate += "0";}formatedDate += d.getMinutes() + " ";if (d.getHours() < 12) { formatedDate += "AM";} else { formatedDate += "PM";}formatedDate += " MDT";document.write( formatedDate );</SCRIPT>4/17/2005 3:54 PM MDT - Updated: <SCRIPT type=text/javascript>var d = new Date(1113848630685);d = new Date( d.getTime() + ((d.getTimezoneOffset() - (6 * 60)) * 60 * 1000) );var formatedDate = "";formatedDate += (d.getMonth() + 1) + "/" + d.getDate() + "/" + d.getFullYear() + " ";if (d.getHours() == 0) { formatedDate += "12";} else if (d.getHours() > 12) { formatedDate += d.getHours() - 12;} else { formatedDate += d.getHours();}formatedDate += ":";if (d.getMinutes() < 10) { formatedDate += "0";}formatedDate += d.getMinutes() + " ";if (d.getHours() < 12) { formatedDate += "AM";} else { formatedDate += "PM";}formatedDate += " MDT";document.write( formatedDate );</SCRIPT>4/18/2005 12:23 PM MDT</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!!!!!! ------ END format author and dates table------ !!!!!>
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<!-- If tag did not render. Message was: null --><!-- StartLoop tag did not render. Message was: Attribute value for NewsImages in ObjectType NewsStory does not exist -->
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!!!!!! ------ End Extra row ------ !!!!!><!!!!!! ------ Abstract ------ !!!!!><!-- Attribute tag did not render. Message was: Attribute type or value NewsImages in the ObjectType NewsStory at index(0) does not exist --><!-- Attribute tag did not render. Message was: Attribute type or value NewsVideos in the ObjectType NewsStory at index(0) does not exist -->DENVER - A driver may face charges in the death of a young mother who was killed in an accident on I-25. <!-- StartLoop tag did not render. Message was: Attribute value for NewsVideos in ObjectType NewsStory does not exist -->The accident shut down the northbound lanes of the interstate near Yale Avenue for a couple hours Sunday.


A Toyota Camry hauling a trailer overloaded with boulders swerved and hit the woman's car; causing it to roll several times.

There were three people in the vehicle, including the woman who died. She was ejected from the car after it rolled six times and slid 50 feet. Her 3-year-old child and a 21-year-old male passenger are expected to be okay.

A third vehicle also was involved in the crash, but it sustained only minor damage and no injuries were reported.


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Your point . . . IS ?

exactly! would she have died had she had a seat belt on???????

semis are overloaded a lot also. what is your point?

The point is to follow the letter of the law all the time. You will get nailed if you can be deemed one teeny bit negligent.

A while back there was a death out on I10 that involved a Fseries truck and a toyhauler. A guy was speeding and rear ended another car or something to that effect. The CHP suspected that the Ford was overloaded, so they took the thing (that had rolled a few times) and weighed it in pieces and found that the truck was overloaded. The driver was sued for negligence manslaughter, hell be in jail for a few (dozen) years, not to mention the loss of every earthly item he ever had.

I know we are all guilty of it here and there, but being overloaded is just about as stupid as not wearing a seatbelt.

Negligence is a lawyers favorite word...........

that is BS they ought not lock him up. she was as much a fault as the other drive for not wearing her seat belt .... she was breaking the law also. screw that. she was as much at fault in her own death as he was.

And his lawyers will question if she would have died if she was wearing her seatbelt (I don't see where it says she wasn't, I've seen ejections when they were in use), hers will question would she have died if the trailer wasn't overloaded.

Even if the trailer was not overloaded, the driver of the CAR and trailer would still have been cited for failure to control.

The lawyers will just have a qucker case. The end result is going to be the same. The trailer driver is screwed.

That type of incident happens often here in NW Ohio. Even when the auto driver is at fault, the lawsuits always fall in favor of the auto. I have not seen a truck and trailer combination win one yet.

Don't think that I condone Overloads. It really is ill relevant whether the trailer is overloaded or not. Failure to control is, failure to control. It doesn't matter.

Disregard previous post, I am an idiot and was thinking of the completely wrong thing.

Dan

Manny, it looks like some people are just in denial.

Someone was overloaded (Camry with boulders!), hit another car, causing injuries at a minimum. The seat belt (or possible lack of) didn't cause the accident. The overloaded trailer did.

Tell me if you want to be on the freeway with this. If you don't care, I don't want to be around you.

something else 99% of the time starts the chain of events and most of the time the truck and trailer driver gets screwed.

like it never has anything to do with the ricers that cut people off in traffic esp. the trucks with any load behind them.

until you have pulled down the highway, you would never understand any of it.


overloaded trailers don't cause accidents, people that cut them off in traffic cause accidents.

The one with the best lawers will win.

I have a friend who was sued in a death case. His teenage son had the car and was in the back seat making love with a girl and another girl was driving. She couldn't keep her eyes on the road because of the activity in the back seat and had a wreak which kill the girl in the back seat. The court found the dead girl 50% at fault in her own death, he still had to pay out a lot though.

something else 99% of the time starts the chain of events and most of the time the truck and trailer driver gets screwed.

like it never has anything to do with the ricers that cut people off in traffic esp. the trucks with any load behind them.

until you have pulled down the highway, you would never understand any of it.


overloaded trailers don't cause accidents, people that cut them off in traffic cause accidents.
Say, I guess we should all be humbled by your experiences and expertise, since no-one here would ever have your experience or skills in towing.

Me thinks you need to think before typing...you've stepped on a lot of toes with your unqualified opinions.

Overloaded, by definition, means exceeding safe use. It is unsafe because the ability to maintain control under given road conditions is unpredictable. If in heavy traffic, "ricers" darting in and out of your lane should be compensated for to maintain control of your vehicle. Advising others to disreguard these safety measures is irresponsible. Demeaning others who do observe them and advocate others to do the same is juvenile.

Replying to this post without retracting your incensed comments, and apologizing to those million miles plus heavy haulers you share this board with would only prove my point. Be a man, admit your error, and recant.

RF

Granted, overloading isn't a good thing, BUT we're talking about a TOYOTA CAMRY here... It was NEVER INTENDED TO TOW. You want to tow something? Get a truck. JMHO.

Say, I guess we should all be humbled by your experiences and expertise, since no-one here would ever have your experience or skills in towing.

Me thinks you need to think before typing...you've stepped on a lot of toes with your unqualified opinions.

Overloaded, by definition, means exceeding safe use. It is unsafe because the ability to maintain control under given road conditions is unpredictable. If in heavy traffic, "ricers" darting in and out of your lane should be compensated for to maintain control of your vehicle. Advising others to disreguard these safety measures is irresponsible. Demeaning others who do observe them and advocate others to do the same is juvenile.

Replying to this post without retracting your incensed comments, and apologizing to those million miles plus heavy haulers you share this board with would only prove my point. Be a man, admit your error, and recant.

RF:exactly:
What if the woman that died was driving an older car that had no seatbelts is it her fault still because she didn't install them?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

And his lawyers will question if she would have died if she was wearing her seatbelt (I don't see where it says she wasn't, I've seen ejections when they were in use), hers will question would she have died if the trailer wasn't overloaded.Unfortunately, I have personal experience with that statement! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif

I also have to agree that their where probably other factors involved. Like him driving so fast that he couldn't maintain control for one!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/badidea.gif Anything faster than moving was to fast for a load that can cause that type of accident (neglect is a better word) with that vehicle! Should have been using a truck.

Agree with cougar, Camry's are not designed to tow. Have you ever seen the brakes on them things? I've had motorcycles with better brakes! The suspension, forget it. The frame, what frame?

P.S.
before anyone flames me for the weight listed in my sig, know that the trailer and truck has gone on a diet to get within legal limits and that weight was what it was the first time I got on the scales and realized I had a BIG problem.

Safe limits is why Mrs S and I are buying a Kodiak eventually. More truck is always better, because the increased margin of weight capacity will definately have an impact in drivability and controllability versus towing with my 2500.

I was overloaded from georgia to nevada. Know what I did? Drove the speed I could control without issues, kept ongoing CB crosstalk with the pro drivers, and kept in the right lane unless I saw an issue with some dumb "4 wheeler" not yielding to something obviously bigger than they were.

Towing anything with a passenger car is about as smart as sand textured bearing grease or tossing a silicon dust additive into your motor oil.

I suppose we should cut Duramaximizer some slack. According to his profile he's just 19 years old. Sure must have hit the road early to have all the experience.

Make a fella wonder about his other posts on this forum.

ya i realize i am 19. i am incase you didn't know. i know that they were overloaded, and i am not saying that i don't care about the person that died. i am not saying that at all. also it doesn't say how much it was overloaded, there are a lot of unknowns. idk what toes i would have stepped on but those that I offended I am SORRY. I am just stating what I have both seen and experienced in a truck let alone the all of the times going back and forth to college around Chicago that I saw the brakes locked up on a semi because of people with no patients.

I was talking about towing in general. I realize a car doen't belong towing anything.

I would think that the kid would have been the most like to sustain damage. but that is just me. i just doubt that the seatbelt broke.

i am sure she didn't crank on the wheel for no reason at all. that was my point.

Yes to all, that I unknowingly affended for some reason. I am sorry. IDK why you are so offended, because it was not that I said that towing overweight was okay, that was not what I ment. The lady prolly just bought some decoration rocks for around here house and thought she would be fine.

We are all guilty of breaking the law, heck if you hit someone going 56mph you are at fault. It is all how you view the law, and how close you care to follow it.

Again, I didn't wish to get anybody on my bad side, but rather to show what I have seen on the road. This is all JMO and I have nothing to really prove any of it.

There were three people in the vehicle, including the woman who died. She was ejected from the car after it rolled six times and slid 50 feet. Her 3-year-old child and a 21-year-old male passenger are expected to be okay.


BTW if it rolled 6 times and the kid and the 21 year old were ok, don't you think seatbelts exhisted???????????

come on.

Replying to this post without retracting your incensed comments, and apologizing to those million miles plus heavy haulers you share this board with would only prove my point. Be a man, admit your error, and recant.

RF
BTW i was giving credit to the truck drivers and was not taking anything away from them. if you reread my post i was saying that truck and trailer drivers (anyone that tows anything) are the ones that have to put up with the ricers that dodge in and out of traffic all of the time. i, in no way, ment to down grade truckers. i try to let them in when possible to pass another semi, because i know that they are making a living and i am just in a hurry to get home. 2 mins don't mean squat to my 3 hour drive home.

I am esp sorry for this paticular misunderstanding!:sorrysign

BY screwed, i ment they were at a disadvantage and are always having to watch out for the idiots.

:exactly:
What if the woman that died was driving an older car that had no seatbelts is it her fault still because she didn't install them?<o:p></o:p>
What "if" a frog had wings.....

Not often do I quote or paraphrase my paramedic wife:

Seatbelt use does not equate to a lack of an ejection. Seatbelts break.

Seen it myself. SUV nailed a car. Big red icky skid ditch ensued on the side of the road. Driver of SUV was ejected and was tossed onto the side of the road. Seatbelts can only restrain so much.

Guys I'm not a seatbelt engineer but chances of a seat belt breaking are slim to none!

I don't think the chances of a seat belt breaking are great either, what happens in a multiple rollover situation however is the person escapes the seatbelt. Nothing but a 5 point harness might keep you in at that point. It is also VERY easy to buckle up improperly.

Yes it was a car, maybe she was buckled maybe she wasn't, maybe someone stopped short..... BUT overloading is the primary cause of this death.

I have seen it here in Colorado on I-70 a few times.

Howard
IAFF local 869

Just recently, I was very close to a similar situation on I-95 in SC, where a brand new Lincoln SUT, towing a Toyhauler without WD bars, swerved to miss an "aligator hide" in his lane and fishtailled his trailer into a Dodge minivan, causing it to lose control and head for the embankment. Both had just passed me by exceeding the speed limit by at least 25-30 MPH. The van rolled over 3 times on its side and once end to end when the front end planted into the ditch. I saw two children being ejected out the side windows (RIP) during the roll-over. I stopped, and it was a grim sight. The Lincoln kept going, never slowing, and I did not get the plate numbers. Only truckers stopped to try to help or call an ambulance, the rest of the traffic (mostly Canadian and Florida plates) only slowed to gawk and make faces. So much for good samaritans, and I'm sure they are also all speculating on what caused it, and who was wearing seatbelts.

You can't litigate, argue, re-invent, or defy the laws of physics. It is not uncommom for children and small women to "escape" the clutches of 3-point safety harnesses because they are designed to "fit" the average man. Some have adjustments to the top retaining mechanism, but these are seldom used. People tend to get in and go, with the premise that if its buckled, its legal. Few folks take the time to read the owner's manual in their new cars, and fewer yet bother to even look for it in used cars, to find out how to adjust the seatbelt harnesses.

Most accidents are the results of a chain of events. In all propability, disreguards for proper use and application for the equipment are the root causes for the woman's death, but one cannot overlook the primary source in this instance....the overloaded Camry. There is little difference between a Toyota overloaded by 800 lbs, and a Light Truck overloaded by 4,000 lbs. when it can result in the same tragedy. Carefull loading to ensure balanced loads, remaining within engineering designs, obeying traffic rules, and adjusting ones driving for road/traffic conditions are the only means of avoiding getting into this type of condition.

Whether the victim was wearing a setbelt, a miniskirt, or a smile on her face would not have made much difference once the Toyota lost control. Now, I've not seen the police report, nor have any means of viewing the insurance company's findings for this accident, but this discussion has degraded to mere suppositions and hearsay that hardly bears any fruitful insights on the original post.

RF

Both had just passed me by exceeding the speed limit by at least 25-30 MPH.

that means they were running 90 or 95mph

that is hardly safe w/i the proper weight ratings of the vehicle, let alone if they are overloaded!

I think that sums it up. e=1/2mv^2

v increases the energy a lot faster than the mass itself does.

this may or may not be more insightful than my previous posts. just more on my thoughts at 19 years of age.

You are making assumptions on limited information and limited life experience. This is why people are pissed. In your mind, a seatbelt cannot break, so she must not have been wearing one. I've worked scenes, as a paramedic, where the seat belts were in use, but ineffective. If a child is in a car seat, they are NOT most likely to be ejected, no matter what YOU think.

03 Radio Flyer summed quite nicely about seat belts and the fit. I have to tighten mine a few time when we are in our truck. I always size it to me, but I am only 5'5", and they are made to fit men who are ~ 6'0".

if u dont want to wear your seat belts then thats your business, your not hurtin nobody but yourself. we pull trailers all the time and we are guilty of sometimes overloading, but even an empty trailer is dangerous with some people behind the wheel, i saw a guy yesterday take out a light pole with a small trailer and bobcat, he ended up with the trailer off the road and the truck sideways in the road, what was bad about it was that it was right in the edge of town in a 35mph zone, he obivously was unexperienced or just being careless, hes lucky a car wasnt coming or he would have really messed somebodys world up

The Lincoln kept going, never slowing, and I did not get the plate numbers.

RF
That is pretty incredible.

Im suprised that no one was able to take after it.

Should have been shot on sight.

Well, here's my 2 cents. I too have logged many miles behind the wheel of a BIG truck, and during that time, have seen many drivers on the road who didn't belong there. They're in cars, vans, pickups, RV's, motorcycles, etc, and yes, Big trucks too. And they do all kinds of stupid stuff while driving; putting on makeup, shaving, eating, reading something important like a map, looking in a briefcase, talking on a cell phone, etc. The professional truck driver is just that, a highly skilled professional held to a higher standard. His knowledge of the law, driving skills, and experience normally exceed that of the average driver with whom he shares the road, and because of that, he's able to log all those miles and hours incident free. What's my point? He has developed the skills necessary to avoid becoming a statistic. His experience also makes him a better driver when he's in his personal vehicle. Set an good example. Be courteous. Operate safely. It just might inspire another driver to do the same, making the roads safer for everyone. There just aren't enough law enforcement officers to watch all of us all of the time, so at the end of the day, we control our own destiny. Stupidity should hurt; unfortunately, sometimes the stupid ones take others along for the ride.

Don't forget, even if hauling a lite load if it is in wrong spot on trailer it could be worse than overloaded.

Take 0 or -500 or -1000# tongue weight and u WILL have trouble.

I must admit I am surprised at the point-counterpoint discussion on this thread. :o: Chtucker was merely posting yet another example of someone towing the wrong load with the wrong vehicle, and somehow it evolved into a seat belt controversy, ricers cutting off truckers, ... thread. :confused:

The short of it: this lady was killed by someones reckless use of the wrong towing combination; her only liability was being in the wrong place at the wrong time - PERIOD! :mad:

I wrote 3 different responses trying to find the right words to use to several posts in this thread, unfortunately they just kept coming out flaming. :( Those that have read my posts know flaming people isn't my style, I try to look for the positive in these threads. This one was tough! :(

It would have been much easier for folks like RF3, Mrs Spoolin, BlackMax and others to simply cruise to another thread versus caring enough to get in some of your faces about your statements. One positive I can see coming from this thread is some may actually take the time to consider the horrific impact each of these accidents had upon real peoples lives. Mrs. Spoolin sees this every day and obviously doesn't want any of us suffering the same fate! Hats off from JJ! :ro)

That's about as much sugar as I can put on this one. JJ's out! :)

As the commercial says,"people do stupid things"

Here's a neat(scary) test of your seatbelt... latch it, pull taught with a bit of pressure on it, then smack rear of latch with a screwdriver or similar tool, most belts will unlatch on first hit. Didn't believe this till we did it on a NIB belt we had in parts room

Well......for clarification only, I get a knot in my stomach every time I come upon an accident scene. And it doesn't much matter who was at fault or why. The fact is, somebody's life has changed as a result. I was simply suggesting that we take note when we see someone driving responsilby, and try to follow that example. It'll make the roads much safer for all of us. The truly bad drivers will always be there also, and one has to be able to spot them in order to avoid them.

Both had just passed me by exceeding the speed limit by at least 25-30 MPH.

that means they were running 90 or 95mph

that is hardly safe w/i the proper weight ratings of the vehicle, let alone if they are overloaded!

I think that sums it up. e=1/2mv^2

v increases the energy a lot faster than the mass itself does.

this may or may not be more insightful than my previous posts. just more on my thoughts at 19 years of age.
Actually the mass is the important variant in the equation
(60 mph˛) is the same whatever the mass is, so it is the weight(mass) that effects the energy, twice the weight = twice the energy.

BlackMax, for clarification only your post was not one of those I took exception with. ;) Much like you, RF3 and others on the DP with considerable towing experience I always put safety ahead of convenience, schedule, ego, whatever when strapping something behind the truck. :)

Manny Tranny, I like your thinking, maybe just blow out their knee-caps though? I would want them to spend a lot of time putting some loven' on Bubba or Bubbette while in the pen! ;) JJ :)