Hey guys,

I stumbled on to this tidbit of information while catching up on my reading over at the oil forum.

This guy was posting over at a Yamaha website and it looks like he works on the Northstar project.

He had some noteworthy comments on the GM Oil Life system as well as some insight on how GM does things from an Engineering point of view.

Here is the web site thread,

http://p083.ezboard.com/ffjr1300ownersassociationfrm12.showMessage?topicID =536.topic

His Board name is jestal

McRat, you might pay attention to this one as he discusses some things about the LT1.

He freely admits his doesn't know much about diesels but I felt is was good information to understand how GM approaches design issues and oiling systems.

Long thread, but good information.......

long isn't the word,

it is llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lllllllllooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

...and very interesting reading...thanks for the link.

Hey Dave, if you are a member on that forum, I think you should invite Jestal over here. That would be awesome to have a GM engineer over here at the place.:)

i ask him a question about motorkote oil. i will see what he says about that snakeoil.

Just one more opinion. No better or worst than a dozen others I have read. Later! Frank

Hey Dave, if you are a member on that forum, I think you should invite Jestal over here. That would be awesome to have a GM engineer over here at the place.:)
Slick,

I'm not a member of the Yamaha forum, I just found the link while reading up on the Oil Forums.

Frank, I know what you mean, but I thought that it might help with some here at trying to figure out why things are the way they are on GM products. There seems to be so many questions lately about why something is a certain way or why some things are said in the owner's manual.

I figure if some read what the horse's mouth, (or put suitable part here), was discussing and how their thought processes were, it would take some of the mystery out of why and how these trucks are built.

There is vast amounts of engineering that goes into the development of vehicles now days, maybe not in the direction that most think.

Few issues with his posts...

Syn has better shear stability...meaning it retains its viscosity better after lots of use in the high-shear environment of the bearings and gears. It's not just a high temperature oxidation thing. If you can retain the TBN, they will last longer before dropping out of their respective viscosoty window.

You can buy a ZDDP spike in the form of BeeGee additive at any motorcycle shop.

Some diesels have had cats since 2003 and they have all had them for the past year.

But, he's dead-on right about octane.

I don't think he was saying synth was bad, just that the use of synth in autos may not be the most cost effective thing, based on the way GM designs engines now days.

I certainly won't stop using synth as I like the extra safety factor on cold starts and hot turbos.

I don't think he knows much about Dmax's or diesels in general and his comments about the cat was a EPA long term issues thing.

I really think he's a fuel systems guy and not so much an oil guy. It's really tough to quantify real world ops on a standardized dyno test.

Now if you get the dyno operator to vary the load up and down, shut down the engine in a hi rev condition, start it cold, then mash it down, I think that's how the soccer moms drive...):h

Hard to read that much at once. Somewhat misleading at times, still interesting. He has been playing with motors for some time and also does it as a hobby? Also interesting.. I am not sure that I agree with the octane comment. Addition of alcohol to increase octane? EH? Maybe Shell does that. :joke: I guess it's a possibility. No mention of butane addition for winter fuel. NOT DIESEL Winter diesel I think has Kerosene base, don't forget your additive!

WOW.....That guys probably forgot more then I'll ever know....great reading though

Of course if you wanted to run a little "hot" you could always run JP8... I spiked my tank with 5 gallons of it a while back, seemed to like that more than anything else.

Good reading even if a bit long. Always thought Amsoil (?spelling) was a pyramid marketing operation paralleling Amway and Tupperware. Anyhow, he seems to put a few myths to bed.

I haven't read the article but can comment on GM engineers. I am a skilled tradesman for GM and work with engineers on a daily basis. Not all but most are clueless. Percentage wise I would say 1% are in the awesome catagory. 5% do very well and can be helpful. 10% are competent but know their limitations and aren't afraid to ask for help. The rest are just plain useless. Period.

That would be awesome to have a GM engineer over here at the place.:)Yes, a GM/Isuzu engineer/designer would be awesome, but could you imagine how many "What is the best way to...... Why doesen't GM...... Why did GM change....... How do you override the....... How can I....... What if I were to......Will this void my warranty.....Why the the small tires!.....etc." questions they would get. I know I have at least 25 questions that I could ask them. Just think, 25 questions by 16,000+ users here at DP.....400,000.:eek: That alone would make any engineer stay incognito. I think they keep quiet because all their free time would be at the computer all night, every night answering question-after question-after question.:(
I'm sure they visit here to see what problems there are with the trucks or how the trucks are being used. They are also seeing what MOD's are being done to the trucks, engines, transmissons, suspentions,...etc. for warranty issues and concerns and telling dealers what to look out for, or disciplining MOD friendly dealers.:( (Just a thought. I don't know.)
Yes, a GM engineer/designer here would be awesome, but it would take a real Hot Rod/Lets Play thinking engineer...please.:D

:rant: ON
maynard9089, Yep, it's the same way at my work too. If CEO's and managers would start promoting from within, a production workers life would be so much nicer and I bet profits would go up. A college degree alone just don't mean you are a engineer, creativity is what makes an engineer.
(College graduates, I'm NOT starting anything.JMO)
:rant: OFF

jc

In Texas, you can't call yourself an engineer unless you're a licensed professional engineer. That means an accredited degree, a test, a few years of experience, another test, recommendations from a few other professional engineers, and approval by the licensing board.

Without the license, you can't put "engineer" on your business card. You can't do engineering, or offer engineering services. It's illegal and they will tell you to stop.

But, after the first test, you can call yourself an "engineer in training".

What if you drive a train?? Can you then call yourself an "engineer"?

Definately a lot of reading and interesting viewpoints. I used a lot of synthetic motor oil in my first two Gold Wing motorcycles. But I couldn't bring myself to a longer change interval. Eventually two bikes ago I went back to dino oil. I still change it as often and it has significantly reduced my costs. I run a blend oil in my gas trucks, due to cold flow properties mostly. Certainly not to get more distance between oil changes. In the DMax all I've used is Rotella 15w40. Based on the bulk of what he said, in my opinion, I've been doing the right things.

I'm damn glad I read that thread... Lot's of interesting stuff in it. Thanks!

Here is discussion on the same thread. http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30239

Greg

OK, finally finished reading that thread. I give the guy his due, he has enough confidence in his technical ability and expertise to air it out in a forum much like ours, stood his ground to. While I don't agree with everything he said he did bring some interesting points up. :)

I had heard that the initial oil in our trucks had some special properties and that we should run them for a while. We've had this discussion on the forum several times about when to change the oil. I'm glad I left the original in for 1k miles, it appears I likely made good use of the ZDP rich environment. His points about the initial break-in and metal components within the first 20-30 miles was enlightening as well. ;)

The only question I had was "Doesn't an engine take on different operating characteristics after you strap a truck and tranny onto it and work it good? I would suspect the answer is a resounding yes! :D

His argument about Mobil 1's "extended service" not being an extended service brought the question to mind: Mobil 1 is going to advise customers to follow the manufacturers oil change schedule during the warranty period, or they may find themselves in a liability situation should something break. Smart thinking in my book. Also, why does Mobil 1 advise to follow the "Oil Life Monitor" change intervals? The PCM tracks all this stuff, if it doesn't show you changed the oil and you have a problem the manufacturer can contend that you didn't follow proper maintenance procedures. Again, Mobil 1 CYA! ):h

I didn't realize that oil filters can be bypassed at very high flow rates. I thought he gave good advice during initial breakin not to run high RPM's to avoid metal shavings going unfiltered into the bearings! Thank you GM Engineer man! :confused:

OEM filters are looking much better to me! :rolleyes: Good intel on this post. Concensus seems to be that guys/gals that run performance mods or tow with their trucks might stick with synthetics since we tend to push our trucks to the upper limits (RPM's and heat) and syn's do offer protection and not break down as fast as dyno oil under these conditions.

There is a guy on the bobstheoilguy site, can't remember his name, that I would love see go head-to-head with the GM engineer guy. We could gain a lot from them both. Later. JJ :)

Northstar engineer huh? Have any of you ever worked on a Cadillac Northstar engine? They put the freakin' starter in the valley below the intake manifold! A ten minute job of putting on a starter turned into an all day engine teardown nightmare. I realize that the Northstar engine won all kinds of awards but give me a break. I think there must be a special place in hell where engineers have to work on their own stuff for 100 years before they get into heaven. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rant.gif Now don't get me wrong. I am not trying to take anything away from this guys cridentials, I have just been waiting for years to complain about that da%n starter and this was my first chance. Have a nice day.

"I think there must be a special place in hell where engineers have to work on their own stuff for 100 years before they get into heaven. "

Now that's funny! JJ :lol:

I am a retired Maintenance Foreman and worked many years as a Millwright before that. I know exactly what you mean about things that can't be worked on easily. Just before my son went to work as a new ME right out of college I gave him a little advice. The most important was to never put a piece of equipment in a place where the craftsmen could not work on it. The second most important was to get craftsmen's input while still in the design stage. He took this to heart and now, 15 years later, is a ME supper and well respected by his peers and craftsmen. I worked with engineering almost on a daily basis. They are a lot more good ones that bad. I always determined which on their merits and most of the time it didn't take long. Later! Frank

Northstar engineer huh? Have any of you ever worked on a Cadillac Northstar engine? They put the freakin' starter in the valley below the intake manifold! A ten minute job of putting on a starter turned into an all day engine teardown nightmare. I realize that the Northstar engine won all kinds of awards but give me a break. I think there must be a special place in hell where engineers have to work on their own stuff for 100 years before they get into heaven. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rant.gif Now don't get me wrong. I am not trying to take anything away from this guys cridentials, I have just been waiting for years to complain about that da%n starter and this was my first chance. Have a nice day.
I see it such that it is their job to design a car that can be built quickly on the assembly line, with little concern about future repair. It's build the car as cheaply (labor) and as efficienmtly as possible.

JJ,
If you look inside an oil filter, especially the better ones (Motorcraft FL-1A), will have what looks like a spring near the top. That is the bypass valve, that allows the oil to bypass the filtetr if needed.

As a kid, I noticed this difference between OEM brand filters, and the aftermarket ones, comparing them, looking at them, in the store. I figured it was there for a reason, and had to be more expensive to produce, even though the difference in the filter prices between the OEM and aftermarket brand were not that much different. I've always bought OEM brand since, AC-Delco for GM cars, Motorcraft for Ford cars, Bosch for German. The GM engineer only confirmed the opinion that I had already made about aftermarket filters.

"I think there must be a special place in hell where engineers have to work on their own stuff for 100 years before they get into heaven. "

Now that's funny! JJ http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/lol.gifFunny Sh*t...Yes!
However, I'm a Mech. Design Engineer and part time farmer that works on his own stuff. Wrenching, welding, & some machining. I too can't stand an engineer that designs things without regard to the guy that has to fix it. Sometimes you don't get a choice but you better get the opinion of a guy that knows how to fix it before you finalise the design or you'll be cussed out many times over. Automotive engineers don't get the same choices we industrial guys do. They're driven by the accedemics that don't have a clue about real world and economists that have only one thing on their mind$.
When I see a kid fresh out of college joining our ranks, the first thing I tell him is to build it so HE can fix it and ask the guys who work on it what they think of the idea/do they have a better idea. That earns respect in the most important place, the real world. Some engineers, though, NEVER get a clue!

Sorry for the http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rant.gif I just had to...

btfarm, Sorry for the RANT! :rant:

:o: What rant? :confused: Your post was well stated, reasoned, objective and right on! ):h Keep em coming! JJ :)

Ford is great for that. It's what turned me off to them at a very early age. None of their stuff is interchangable and it's often designed to never be worked on after assembly.