Mike L installed a DTT Stage 2 kit for me Friday the 8th at his shop in LA. I've been told this is only the fourth one of these to be installed so here are my experiences after a week of freeway driving and about 25 1/4 mile passes (both on and off the track). It's got just over 2,000 miles on it already.

Friday morning Mike made a call to Bill to get clearances and double check some other install info while the trans was being dropped. After a lot of test fitting we decided that some machine work had to be done to the C2 piston (which we expected based on previous conversations with Bill). Steve was kind enough to machine the piston down enough that we could meet the clearances given to us by Bill and still retain all but one of the factory steels.

After the initial install of nothing but DTT parts we started test driving the truck. I ended up putting 150 miles on the truck up and down the freeways and to and from shops on Saturday and Sunday trying to get the transmission to shift properly and consitently, but never could. We tried everything we could think of to get the transmission to shift predictably and just couldn't. Some times the 1-2 shift would flare. Other times it wouldn't shift at all. The 3-4 shift was also similar. The other shifts eventually settled down but even they didn't always shift the way I expected. I also noticed hard downshifts on quite a few occasions. I'm sure these problems were related to the TCM.

We decided that we had given the truck plenty of time to adapt to the modifications and it wasn't going to so we installed the Transgo trim valves on Monday morning. We took the truck out again for a test drive and noticed almost immediately that the truck was shifting much better. Currently this is the way the transmission sits.

Mike measured the line pressure after the trim valves and we're seeing around 500 psi at WOT. :eek: The transmission still doesn't shift nearly as hard/firm as the ATS w/co-pilot. Around town driving the transmission seems to shift very well. The 3-4 shift still flares a bit regularly but this is to be expected given the massive increase in area on the C2 piston. Mike doesn't think this will get better.

On the track (officially and unofficially) the 3-4 flare does not show up. Every shift clicks off without a problem. The shifts are not as fast and firm as the ATS though. I also have yet to see what this thing will do with some real horsepower.

We did find out later that DTT makes some other modifications that we were not made aware of until the install was completed. They are also working on some other modifications so at this point I don't know how "complete" my kit/install was. I believe they are still working on refining their kit at this point.

These are just my impressions/experiences with the upgrades so far.

I think everything will work out for ya. Bill really seems to know his stuff as does MikeL. My Stage 1 took a few shifting cycles to even out. Being an '01 it doesn't have the fast learn process. I'm very pleased with my DTT and am sure you will be too.

Chad thanks for the honest evaluation.

Chad,

I have the utmost respect for you, for sharing your honest evaluation. :ro)

It's really a shame that DTT never sent "all" the parts to Mike in time so that we could have installed and evaluated the kit on my truck before you got here as was originally intended.

Sometimes being first isn't always the best.

Put some miles on her, make some adjustments and I'm sure it will all work out.

I never said it would be easy. If I wanted easy or wanted to avoid problems I would have gone with one of the proven kits. I enjoy testing new things and providing my feedback in hopes of improving the product.

I'm sure things will work out. I'll keep you guys updated as I get the kinks worked out regardless of what I end up doing. It's still got a ways to go but I believe it will get there, especially with me pushing them as I don't go away easy :D

sp33d - greatly appreciate you sharing your DTT experience and the fact that you like trying new things out! I'm sure things will work out just fine.

MikeL - Wow 500 psi at WOT! Since I'm new to the Allison, how do you get this much line pressure. I thought they put out about half this amount. If you have the time, please explain. Thank you.

The 3-4 shift still flares a bit regularly but this is to be expected given the massive increase in area on the C2 piston. Mike doesn't think this will get better.

Just curious about the above statement. I understand the 3-4 shift flare (I have a couple those every now and then), but how does an increase in the C2 piston area cause this ? Trying to understand the physics here.

Good evaluation and I am certain things will get worked out.


Alan

Would be nice if Bill and/or Stefan would chime in here and explain this for us all.
Are they going to send you the upgraded parts once they have them finished?
Interesting to see how this all plays out........................
Thanks sp33d!

Thanks for the review Chad. I've already been down to talk to Mike L about upgrading my transmission. I was waiting for your test results before I drop some serious cash. I know there are a couple tried and true options out there with known benefits/issues. Any word from DTT as to what or when these issues may be worked out?

It's been a few days, Chad..anything new about the trans or all the same?

Nothing has changed in the trans. I've been playing with some minor things but it's not getting better. It's not necessarily bad, just not as good as I believe it should be, or as good as Juice's was on my test drive.

Everyone involved is worried about the pressure obviously so I'm currently planning another trip into the trans soon. The truck will be headed to DTT directly in Canada this time so when I get it back I'll be able to report about the shifts, good or bad, as anyone with a DTT transmission should be able to expect.

My current report is based on a transmission that isn't entirely DTT built and isn't what you would get if you ordered a complete unit from them so I wouldn't put a lot of weight on my current experiences. Mike simply didn't have all the information and/or possibly parts needed to do this correctly. The reasons for this are beyond my knowledge. This was not his fault in any way, shape, or form.

DTT is definitely making sure things get taken care of which is exactly what I expected knowing their reputation in the Dodge world.

I got the first sold to the public suncoast..........and had none of those issues........mine was done in house...........its been updated a few times and is now residing in my 04 lb7.........went from a level 3 to a 5 and now has over 100k miles.......I know there have been some issues recently with macks...................and I hate to see threads end like that between my friends..........but my experience with my tranny has been very close to perfect............there were some issues with a aftermarket deeppan and filter/strainer height but they were resloved with no expense to me.......as I said my tranny was updated from a 3 to a 5 as suncoast learned more ways to improve the allison..........and updated again during the 02 to 04 transplant........Chad your openess is to be applauded and hopefully you will be rewarded with a good product...............As for the previous threads between two good friends, I hope they can all work out their differences and move on.

sp33d:

Any ETA on when you will have the truck back from DTT? I've been keeping Mike L on hold waiting to see what the results are. Upgrading my transmission is the single most expensive mod I will do to my truck and I want to make sure I put my money on the best value.

I haven't made final plans for the truck to go up to DTT as that's a 1,000 mile one way trip for me. Hopefully, I'll be able to give another report in a couple weeks with a DTT built DTT trans.

sdaver, I personally never had problems with the Suncoast V in my LB7 truck. Joe always took great care of me when I had questions and the one time I did have problems his service shined through. I didn't choose DTT this time because I was not happy with my Suncoast. I was very happy but I enjoy trying new things. It's one of those "you don't know what the other side of the fence looks like until you've been there" things. I also wanted something that would hopefully shift a little more firm. We'll see where things end up with the DTT trans.

sp33d:

Any ETA on when you will have the truck back from DTT? I've been keeping Mike L on hold waiting to see what the results are. Upgrading my transmission is the single most expensive mod I will do to my truck and I want to make sure I put my money on the best value.
It seems like DTT has some more work to do.

Go to Mike L. and have him do an ATS complete kit and Co-pilot using the TTS triple converter and you will have the best available IMHO.
If you want to go for a test drive/carnival ride in my truck, we can hook up any time. :D

I'm in Valencia.

It seems like DTT has some more work to do.

Go to Mike L. and have him do an ATS complete kit and Co-pilot using the TTS triple converter and you will have the best available IMHO.
If you want to go for a test drive/carnival ride in my truck, we can hook up any time. :D

I'm in Valencia.


Does this carnival come to all shopping strip malls across America? If not perhaps I could start a subsidiary :D

Thanks Trippin:

I'll take you up on that offer. I've talked allot with Mike L and been down to his shop. No doubt in my mind he will be the one I'll trust to do the work on my truck. None the less, I would like to know what I can anticipate if I go with the TTS/ATS/Co-pilot setup. I'll pm you with my contact info.

Here's the latest:

Last Tuesday I received a new "hot" program to test so I went out to my normal open, unpopulated, low-traffic country road and started testing. I was paying very close attention to the transmission and shift quality under WOT and it was doing pretty good. It still wasn't predictable but the times it shifted correctly it shifted quickly and smoothly. If I had to guess I would say the truck was running at or under 500hp based on SOP and G-tech 1/4 mile numbers/times.

After testing I headed home and the truck was having a real rough time shifting. The worst I've ever had a transmission shift. Even worse than it shifted prior to the Transgo kit shift while in LA. By the time I get home I've put it through six (that I can count in my head now) upshift downshift cylces. By now I would have expected it to be shifting at least "better" but it was still shifting as bad as when I finished my testing. On my way to work the next morning it was shifting even worse. Probably because it was cold. Didn't get any better in the 5 miles to work. By bad shifts I mean it literally took 2+ seconds for it to shift from 1-2 most of the time, 2-3 would hit so hard that the entire dash would shake, and so on. Something (more) is wrong.

On my way home from work that night I brake to go around a corner off a highway right next to my house and the SES light comes on and the truck is stuck in fourth gear. Since I've got the tech 2 sitting next to me I turn it on while trying to get the truck to my house in fourth gear. Once the tech 2 is up I look at the codes and clear them but they don't clear. Once I get to my house I have to get a running start for the garage but I make it in. Put it in park and clear the codes again... Transmission makes a loud bang and SES light goes out. Attempted to take it to work the next day (don't know why) and made it about three miles before it set the codes again. It wouldn't even go into gear after that one. Ended up putting it on one of our car trailers to get it back to the shop where it sits now.

Codes were 0734 and 0722. 0734 is Incorrect 4th gear ratio and 0722 is Output speed sensor.

I'm currently making arrangements to get the truck back down to Mike's for one of his Frankenstein transmissions so that I can have fun this race season as I've been waiting for it all winter. We will be taking lots of pictures as we do the tear down of this transmission so look for them in a couple weeks. At this point I'm not going to speculate on what is wrong or what caused it but we will once we have more information from inside...

Here's the latest:

Last Tuesday I received a new "hot" program to test so I went out to my normal open, unpopulated, low-traffic country road and started testing. I was paying very close attention to the transmission and shift quality under WOT and it was doing pretty good. It still wasn't predictable but the times it shifted correctly it shifted quickly and smoothly. If I had to guess I would say the truck was running at or under 500hp based on SOP and G-tech 1/4 mile numbers/times.

After testing I headed home and the truck was having a real rough time shifting. The worst I've ever had a transmission shift. Even worse than it shifted prior to the Transgo kit shift while in LA. By the time I get home I've put it through six (that I can count in my head now) upshift downshift cylces. By now I would have expected it to be shifting at least "better" but it was still shifting as bad as when I finished my testing. On my way to work the next morning it was shifting even worse. Probably because it was cold. Didn't get any better in the 5 miles to work. By bad shifts I mean it literally took 2+ seconds for it to shift from 1-2 most of the time, 2-3 would hit so hard that the entire dash would shake, and so on. Something (more) is wrong.

On my way home from work that night I brake to go around a corner off a highway right next to my house and the SES light comes on and the truck is stuck in fourth gear. Since I've got the tech 2 sitting next to me I turn it on while trying to get the truck to my house in fourth gear. Once the tech 2 is up I look at the codes and clear them but they don't clear. Once I get to my house I have to get a running start for the garage but I make it in. Put it in park and clear the codes again... Transmission makes a loud bang and SES light goes out. Attempted to take it to work the next day (don't know why) and made it about three miles before it set the codes again. It wouldn't even go into gear after that one. Ended up putting it on one of our car trailers to get it back to the shop where it sits now.

Codes were 0734 and 0722. 0734 is Incorrect 4th gear ratio and 0722 is Output speed sensor.

I'm currently making arrangements to get the truck back down to Mike's for one of his Frankenstein transmissions so that I can have fun this race season as I've been waiting for it all winter. We will be taking lots of pictures as we do the tear down of this transmission so look for them in a couple weeks. At this point I'm not going to speculate on what is wrong or what caused it but we will once we have more information from inside...
I'm really sorry it hasn't worked out for you. :(
Sometimes exploring the latest and greatest means taking one step backwards to take two steps forward.

Was Chad's Stage 2 considered "testing" for DTT so he can get his $$ back or is he out $5K?

I'm really sorry it hasn't worked out for you. :(
Sometimes exploring the latest and greatest means taking one step backwards to take two steps forward.


Into a different doorway.Step into the light !


http://images2.deviantart.com/i/2004/07/1/5/Light_of_the_Purple_Heavens.jpg








That has a nice shade to it. Who needs Orange Sunsets when you can have a Purple heaven! That'll get them riled up :D

I thought for a quick second that was going to have an ATS logo in it.

It will be interesting to see what failed. This trans mod was meant for Trippins truck but was not possible because of parts issues. I never install kits or parts that I have not beat to death and proven worthy. I did this time by request; never do it again. IMHO the DTT kits are not ready for use and they will not work at all without a Transgo shift kit. Don't know where this thread is going, and I am holding back a lot of info that I never disclosed;so is Chad.
mike

Was Chad's Stage 2 considered "testing" for DTT so he can get his $$ back or is he out $5K?
I don't believe I'll be getting any money back from them. I don't know whether the kit installed in my truck was considered "testing" or not. It was originally meant for Trippin's truck but at my request we installed it in mine. At no time was I told that the parts were "test" parts or anything less than what would be installed in any other DTT transmission being built at the time. I did know they were meant for testing in Trippin's truck but that's it...

Mike is bending over backwards though to take care of me so that I have a properly working transmission.

I don't believe I'll be getting any money back from them. I don't know whether the kit installed in my truck was considered "testing" or not. Mike is bending over backwards though to take care of me so that I have a properly working transmission.


You will, your in good hands! But you don't need me to tell you that.

Real sorry to hear that buddy. I'm sure you've spoken with DTT about this. what have they had to say? Are they going to take care of it for you and arrange a local place to R&R it? Hopefully they don't want you to ship it back to them as i know you've been getting ready for the races and wouldn't want your truck sitting any longer than need be. Heck i know you're not making anywhere near the power of some of the juiced up LB7's. Its to bad to hear it didn't last. hopefully it was a fluke and DTT's customer service will stand behind it! This is one of the times that seperates the good tranny companies from the rest- when its time to take care of the customer. I hope they do you right.

I know ATS and suncoast have warranties. What is the warranty on your DTT tranny? I looked on their website but i couldn't find the info.

Good luck and please let us all know what DTT does or doesn't do to resolve this to your satisfaction. I'm sure a lot of potential DTT customers will want some reassurance they'll be taken care of.

Nick

I just thought I'd ask is all.....sometimes "stuff" happens.

:frankenst

I know Mike will take care of you no matter what you end up with. At least you've got him in your corner.



I don't believe I'll be getting any money back from them. I don't know whether the kit installed in my truck was considered "testing" or not. Mike is bending over backwards though to take care of me so that I have a properly working transmission.

:frankenst


):h

He needed a smoke............:cool:

http://www.electricfrankenstein.com/art/frankcross.jpg

Well, just remember................

Let's hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. :nutkick: :Wedgie:

I don't think there will be any warranty on this considering I did the work. Their fault, my fault , anybodys fault; doesn't matter. I have a truck down and my only concern is to put it back on the road reliably as soon as I can. I will do it my way this time. :exactly:
mike :D

I don't believe I'll be getting any money back from them. I don't know whether the kit installed in my truck was considered "testing" or not. It was originally meant for Trippin's truck but at my request we installed it in mine. At no time was I told that the parts were "test" parts or anything less than what would be installed in any other DTT transmission being built at the time. I did know they were meant for testing in Trippin's truck but that's it...

Mike is bending over backwards though to take care of me so that I have a properly working transmission.
DTT, came in and made alot of claims about how great their stuff was and how they were going in a different direction than everbody else, so I asked Mike to order one up. Let's "test" it and see if it will stand up to the abuse I put my ATS through.

We now have tested what DTT "sent" in Sp33d's truck and have one piece of data. We have a second piece of data provided by "Got Juice" who indicates it is awsome. 50/50 Looks like the jury is still out. :confused:

DTT will probably try and save face by indicating that Mike L. did something wrong. Or that he should attend their training class. -:t
Perhaps "they" should attend his. :eek:

Any other "Allison DTT" users want to chime in?

I guess I'll stick with my ATS based :frankenst as built by Mike L. :Handshake

This baby locks and Rocks!
Thanks Tomac for the recommendation! :ro)

How many Duramaxes are running DTT transmissions?

Any other owners care to speak up?

I do not know what happend. Mine works great. Towing at full power, no problems at all.

Part Problem? Install Problem? I can't speak out of turn as I only have experience with mine.

I wish I could be of help on this; but i do not have any answers to give.:(

Well, just remember................


Yup! :D

DTT, came in and made alot of claims about how great their stuff was and how they were going in a different direction than everbody else, so I asked Mike to order one up. Let's "test" it and see if it will stand up to the abuse I put my ATS through.

We now have tested what DTT "sent" in Sp33d's truck and have one piece of data. We have a second piece of data provided by "Got Juice" who indicates it is awsome. 50/50 Looks like the jury is still out. :confused:

DTT will probably try and save face by indicating that Mike L. did something wrong. Or that he should attend their training class. -:t
Perhaps "they" should attend his. :eek:

Any other "Allison DTT" users want to chime in?

I guess I'll stick with my ATS based :frankenst as built by Mike L. :Handshake

This baby locks and Rocks!
Thanks Tomac for the recommendation! :ro)



You guys better cut the crap.I'm never going to get my tranny from ATS! :(

It's close,I can feel it ;)

Clint must be going nuts! Busy busy

I do not know what happend. Mine works great. Towing at full power, no problems at all.

Part Problem? Install Problem? I can't speak out of turn as I only have experience with mine.

I wish I could be of help on this; but i do not have any answers to give.:(


Takes a lot of gall to EVEN say a install problem.That's total BS,you should get your facts straight before spewing -:t

Juice you wouldn't put the truth out there anyway,we all know that.I commend Chad for coming forward!

I paid the price and I hope he doesn't.

Part Problem? Install Problem? I can't speak out of turn as I only have experience with mine.


I would say design problem.....I still recal a situation where a guy drove a considerable amount of miles/hours to get an install done of which he was going to watch the whole thing.....left there without the truck, problem with something at the end of the rotating assembly perhaps?;) I realize the parts DTT installed on your truck didn't/haven't failed...but the parts that did were the result of the DTT kit, I wonder if someone else besides them would have installed yours if they would have blamed that mishap on installation.

As far as "test kit" goes....anyone can go back and find Stefan's post where he said they were released and Mike's had been sent to him.....although he got it in the mail like he ordered a Civil War Chess set off an infomercial......1 piece every 4-6 weeks. :blahblah:

Takes a lot of gall to EVEN say a install problem.That's total BS,you should get your facts straight before spewing -:t

Juice you wouldn't put the truth out there anyway,we all know that.I commend Chad for coming forward!

I paid the price and I hope he doesn't.
Mack, you are an idiot.

First you screw up two suncoast installs then you have the nerve to accuse me of outright saying it was an install problem? This is the same guy that was a Suncoast cheerleader "Only so many ways to skin this cat"

Second; I posed a question could it be either one (install?/Parts?) I don't doubt Mike's ability, and mistakes can be made,or a wrong part , but you might not inderstand that because you sound perfect.

And yes, the trouble we had with my truck turned out to be a minor issue.

Is my transmission working well?

Yes.

Go play with your Allison snap ring collection or something else constructive):h

I can't wait to see what kind of spin you will put on this post. Were you once a 'press secretary' for Clinton?

Mack, you are an idiot.

First you screw up two suncoast installs then you have the nerve to accuse me of outright saying it was an install problem? This is the same guy that was a Suncoast cheerleader "Only so many ways to skin this cat"

Second; I posed a question could it be either one (install?/Parts?) I don't doubt Mike's ability, and mistakes can be made,or a wrong part , but you might not inderstand that because you sound perfect.

And yes, the trouble we had with my truck turned out to be a minor issue.

Is my transmission working well?

Yes.

Go play with your Allison snap ring collection or something else constructive):h

I can't wait to see what kind of spin you will put on this post. Were you once a 'press secretary' for Clinton?

This isn't about me moron. Show me where I screwed up TWO installs,assmunch.Keep listing to the under ground,you idiot.The first install and ONLY the first install was screwed up by my installer,duh!!

Got it? Some how I doubt it can sink in :rolleyes:

Like I said you KNOW nothing ,you wouldn't put the truth out here anyway.I would put the truth out there but it's my belief that only additional carnage would be the end result and not for me.In addition all will look bad including myself for doing so.There is NOTHING to gain at this point for me.I know the REAL truth as those I selected to tell.Ask the real individuals not some PM queens.F'in A I was a Suncoast loyal customer untill I was ditched and it cost me TWO FAILURES of their parts on my dime.

I noticed you skipped right over George's post,go figure.Truth hurts huh?You know it was parts,stupid! Why even mention install?That's my grip,retard

Crawl back under your rock,dummy. -:t

Before you Boo Hoo,and the rest of you ass kissers, you see who called who a name in the above quote! :bawl:


You start it I'll wrap it up to go!

This isn't about me moron. Show me where I screwed up TWO installs,assmunch.Keep listing to the under ground,you idiot.The first install and ONLY the first install was screwed up by my installer,duh!!

Got it? Some how I doubt it can sink in :rolleyes:

Like I said you KNOW nothing ,you wouldn't put the truth out here anyway.I would put the truth out there but it's my belief that only additional carnage would be the end result and not for me.In addition all will look bad including myself for doing so.There is NOTHING to gain at this point for me.I know the REAL truth as those I selected to tell.Ask the real individuals not some PM queens.F'in A I was a Suncoast loyal customer untill I was ditched and it cost me TWO FAILURES of their parts on my dime.

I noticed you skipped right over George's post,go figure.Truth hurts huh?You know it was parts,stupid! Why even mention install?That's my grip,retard

Crawl back under your rock,dummy. -:t

Before you Boo Hoo,and the rest of you ass kissers, you see who called who a name in the above quote! :bawl:


You start it I'll wrap it up to go!:funnypost

LMFAO.. you prove your point as eloquently as always Mac):h You are real quick to pull the trigger, And i did read George's post thanks.

You calling everyone else an ass kisser, now that is funny.):h

Another hijacked tranmission thread......

As far as "test kit" goes....anyone can go back and find Stefan's post where he said they were released and Mike's had been sent to him.....although he got it in the mail like he ordered a Civil War Chess set off an infomercial......1 piece every 4-6 weeks. :blahblah:
:lol:
Kinda like that song where the guy builds a Cadillac by taking home parts from the Caddy factory in his lunch box over a period of years. :D

When his friends ask him what year it is he starts on the Chorus its a 67, 68, 69 ,70..........

Mike wanted to order 2 kits, as we explained to Mike, we sent only one, so we could see how the install went with Trippin’s truck. This was to be a test truck for him as he was more familiar with oem systems we needed to see how this went first.

Parts were shipped for Trippin’s truck

Parts were put in Chad’s truck.
When we found out this was what was going down we really tried to get Chad to come here, we even went as far to offer to do the labor for free, nothing against Mike, this was his first time for our kit.

Kit including shipping was about $ 1000, consisted of C1, C2, piston & housing, C3, C4 pistons and seals and a case. Remember this was special pricing so Mike could mess around with Trippins truck.We did not ship any pressure controlling items at all.
No core charge was put on the case as a courtesy with the understanding the core would be returned to DTT in place of the one we shipped. You can clearly see from our website there is a core charge notation. We waived as a professional courtesy. No case returned. According to Chad he didn’t know anything about the case, and according to Mike, Chad had the case. Bottom line, a case has not been returned to DTT and we don’t have a clue where it is.

The transmission was worked on, truck released, and as you guys can see Chad posted that the truck left with 500 psi readings. We found that out the same time you guys did.

Had anyone let us know the pressure readings on the truck we would have made him put it back on the rack , those readings were a huge red flag. We did not build this unit but had a vested interest to make sure it left right. We were left out of the picture where obviously our input was clearly needed. No tranny will live with 500 psi and would certainly explain the shifting issues. Again , we did not ship any pressure altering parts but would have still been able to assist had we been contacted about these pressures.

As soon as we saw these pressures readings posted we contacted Chad, we knew he was on borrowed time and wanted to get the truck up here to get it looked after. As Chad had made the trip to CA and had only just gotten home we offered to have Nathan trailer the truck here,Nathan was kind enough to re-arrange some of schedule to facilitate our request and planned to bring up the truck. It was all arranged and then didn’t work out as it was Chad’s mothers birthday or something that got in the way of the truck making the trip. Give me a break, how much more could you guys expect us to do. As the arrangements we made did not work for Chad, we tried again.

DTT then told Chad, get us the tranny and we will turn it around within 24 hours if he shipped it to us. We are a very, very, busy shop that would have meant late hours but we still offered to do it. No labour charges what so ever. Chad informed he was going to put in a ATS tranny so he was not sending us his tranny. We tried our best to assist and he had obviously made other plans. We did not hear back after that.

You guys are now up to speed till this Monday, when we got a call from Chad he wants us to send him a tranny by Friday to make a race or something he wanted to attend. As it turns out we don’t have a spare LLY core as we are selling out of all our tranny stuff from the first run, exchanges units have all gone out and the cores are not back yet. We explained this to Chad so he then suggested why not send the one in our truck. You have got to be kidding we thought, we have trucks on the rack, twins going on in the shop and now need to pull our guys off what they are doing to yank our tranny out , Bill and his business partner discussed it and agreed to do it but all things considered we would put a charge on the outbound tranny till Chads got back to DTT. Remember, we still don’t even have our case back yet from where ever it ended up and dont even know that . We would then check his, see what was done fix it and use his for our truck. Chad would be out for some clutches and shipping. We would handle all the rest. We bent over backwards, yanked it out, got it ready to leave, it was ready to go pending the paperwork being all processed. We did our part. There was some sort of an issue with the card processing that held up the tranny leaving and as we could not get that cleared up in time to make the freight company shipping for the day. Chad again said never mind he would get an ATS tranny, we are to the point now where if Chad really wants to buy a complete new tranny rather than fix this one so be it.

Chad, if you want to get this thing sorted out, the offer still stands, get that transmission out of the truck that Mike put together for and send it in to DTT. You can have it picked up when we are done. We are not yanking ours out again as we need our truck. Obviously if you choose to send the tranny elsewhere to be worked on the offer is no longer valid.

So guys believe whatever you want, I am not getting into a debate about this. Our transmission just went back in our truck my injectors just got put in, and man it is awesome with the twins, injectors and box. I love it, we know the system works and are quite content to service the customers that we deal with directly and go through our personally trained installers as we always have with the Dodges.

Juice, you dont have to defend a thing. We are not the least concerned about it so dont you be. We have bent over backwards trying to get this sorted out so guys can believe what they want to. Our customer base is only a very small percentage internet just as with the Dodge so it is just a matter of time before you start hearing about the DTT set up trucks hitting the tracks and pulls and so on . The only reason I bothered to post on this is so you guys know we tried to help Chad no matter who built the tranny.

:funnypost

LMFAO.. you prove your point as eloquently as always Mac):h You are real quick to pull the trigger, And i did read George's post thanks.

You calling everyone else an ass kisser, now that is funny.):h

Sarcasm or you want to be Friends? Either way,no thanks

An apology would have been appropriate,to late.



You got the what, and how, that anyone should expect when they're called an Idiot. Understand it, or not,isn't my problem but yours.
Asskisser's aren't for everyone, as you imply, but the "short" list that your(s) pal Broker provided in our week long PM exchange. Need a copy?

I think not, I wouldn't want to embarrass anyone.

Enjoy your "free" upgrades,but I know exactly just how Chad feels.He's getting out cheap although

Sarcasm or you want to be Friends? Either way,no thanks

An apology would have been appropriate,to late.



You got the what, and how, that anyone should expect when they're called an Idiot. Understand it, or not,isn't my problem but yours.
Asskisser's aren't for everyone, as you imply, but the "short" list that your(s) pal Broker provided in our week long PM exchange. Need a copy?

I think not, I wouldn't want to embarrass anyone.

Enjoy your "free" upgrades,but I know exactly just how Chad feels.He's getting out cheap although
Mac, I have Paid IN FULL for my upgrades. I had free beta stuff to test, but I have paid for FINAL Product. You want some reciepts? They can be provided, but it would prove nothing to you. Apologize to you? On what premise? You calling me either Dishonest or a liar frequently? You ought to be ashamed of yourself... If I have anything to be ashamed of, It is that I sank to your level to respond in kind.

One possible reason I do get to test things out is my enthusiasim for this Hobby, And if I were Dishonest, I am sure they would not give me the time of day; However this is not the case.

I gave you my number to call me collect, you never have to clear up my obvious misconception that you were in the right. No call from you.

PM's are that. PRIVATE MESSAGES. No Thanks. I Do not want to read anyone's ever.

The only apology I make on here is to the board members who have to read this.

Unless of course they are eating popcorn and having fun reading this.

Oh, one more piece of friendly advice if you want it. Why skulk cravenly on the board with your green light out?

Stefan....and I see Bill is watching.....I have a hard time believing some of what you posted.

As far as the pressure thing goes...why did you not ship the rest of the stuff? Plain and simple, don't say well :blahblah: .....there is no excuse why he did not get the whole kit. You knew for weeks that Chad was getting the components Mike had and chose not to ship them. I know for a fact Mike called you while Chad's truck was there and even just before he got there trying to get the rest of the components. YOU (DTT) screwed this up and there's no excuse you are trying to come out here and bull$hit into saying otherwise. Mike should have gotten all the parts just as anyone else....I gaurantee he's built more Allisons than all the guys in your shop put together. You posted lies about the "test" trannies and even a failure that you covered by saying you were gonna use the extra time to install turbos.....give me a break...like we wouldn't see through that one. Plain and simple here....Chad got *****ed because DTT and there bull$hit.

I think you boys better stick to Dodges, I don't see much future in the GM based customers for DTT.

I'm no angel on the forums, thats for sure,

Well I've been reading up on the allison upgrades because I see one in the near future...But heck ! do we always have to hear how this guy screwed me (before the whole story gets out)?... then the inevitable No I didn't replies comes along. with hints that the other is the f-up

Then a few people make remarks in every thread on how they are glad they switched, others say they screwed up etc.. place such things in their sigs or whatever.

IMO This bickering should stop... It's counter productive...

I'm just trying to make a well informed decision about which one to get... It's obvious which responses are biased for whatever reason there may be.

but to have it constantly re-hashed it in every Allison thread...

I never heard of DTT before and was mainly considering SC-V and ATS (doubtful only due to location)

Maybe Nick should re-open the war room so you guys can fight this stuff out in there.


Sorry about the rant... I'm Just looking out for my allison,

Pepperidge

Thanks for the response Stefan. You incorrectly stated a number of things though that I'll correct this evening when I'm not making a living. FWIW, I actually do still want to work this out as I'd like to be able to give an honest and accurate review of a DTT transmission, not to mention I want my money's worth. I'm interested in the best and if you've got it I want it. If that does happens it'll be in person at this point.

Pepperidge, I don't know of a thing on the face of this planet that doesn't get debated. The threads like this are good for potential customers. I'll agree they get heated sometimes but that's what happens since people disagree.

P.S. Your transmission case is sitting at Mike's shop. I've known that all along and when you asked me I told you such. I did tell you that I was not sure why it hadn't been returned yet. After talking to Mike about it yesterday he indicated that he was unaware it needed to be returned until you called yesterday looking for it. At that point he told you he was going to hold on to it pending the outcome of my transmission since it looks like we're going to need it. You'll get a case or $800 within two weeks (I've just got to make some decisions on what I want to do with this mess), I promise you that.

I gave you my number to call me collect, you never have to clear up my obvious misconception that you were in the right. No call from you.



Apologies for the Idiot name calling in your post.I never called you a liar or dishonest that I'm aware of.If your making that assumption then your voices in your head are taking over.

Call you ?Even collect? Why?

Why do I owe you a personal explanation to my affairs?How is this any of your business in the slightest then and now? I merely dropped you a PM after your accusation that I was in the wrong in anouther thread,just like I mentioned here.Simple, nothing more nothing less.

I involved myself after your accusation against a installer,even in a subtle hint, of possible involvement ,when if you don't, you should know, the truth before you spew -:t ,in this thread. Read along with Dipper why don't you!

Read it sloooooow you'll understand :rolleyes:

Now I have to call you and give you every detail?still? Pffffff in your dreams

Get real :rolleyes:

Apologies for the Idiot name calling in your post.I never called you a liar or dishonest that I'm aware of.If your making that assumption then your voices in your head are taking over.

Call you ?Even collect? Why?

Why do I owe you a personal explanation to my affairs?How is this any of your business in the slightest then and now? I merely dropped you a PM after your accusation that I was in the wrong in anouther thread,just like I mentioned here.Simple, nothing more nothing less.

I involved myself after your accusation against a installer,even in a subtle hint, of possible involvement ,when if you don't, you should know, the truth before you spew -:t ,in this thread. Read along with Dipper why don't you!

Read it sloooooow you'll understand :rolleyes:

Now I have to call you and give you every detail? Pffffff in your dreams

Get real :rolleyes:
You might want to reread some posts Mac. Refresh your memory. Whether you allude to it or outright spell it out it means the same things. Honest, yes. I call the spade for what it is that way there is no misunderstanding. And my reading comprehension is quite good Mac, I wanted to hear your issues from the SOURCE which is why I gave you my PH# and told you to call collect. Nothing More, Nothing Less. Remember you PM'd me about wanting to know why I used that terminology in my post in your dead suncoast thread and that is why I PM'd you the number AND to call collect. There I posted it twice... in case you are sloooooow.

And SHOW ME WHERE I ACCUSED MIKE! If Mike were not proficient at his trade, there is no doubt in my mind that he would not be successful in business as he is.

It was posed as a question. Installer? Parts? I do not know DO YOU?


Keep Spinning Mac.... but you are running a bit lean on the same old whine.

I'm no angel on the forums, thats for sure,

Well I've been reading up on the allison upgrades because I see one in the near future...But heck ! do we always have to hear how this guy screwed me (before the whole story gets out)?... then the inevitable No I didn't replies comes along. with hints that the other is the f-up

Then a few people make remarks in every thread on how they are glad they switched, others say they screwed up etc.. place such things in their sigs or whatever.

IMO This bickering should stop... It's counter productive...

I'm just trying to make a well informed decision about which one to get... It's obvious which responses are biased for whatever reason there may be.

but to have it constantly re-hashed it in every Allison thread...

I never heard of DTT before and was mainly considering SC-V and ATS (doubtful only due to location)

Maybe Nick should re-open the war room so you guys can fight this stuff out in there.


Sorry about the rant... I'm Just looking out for my allison,

Pepperidge

Pepper I apologize for my personal affairs being drug to these threads and myself having to defend the untruths and lies.

You might want to reread some posts Mac. Refresh your memory. Whether you allude to it or outright spell it out it means the same things. Honest, yes. I call the spade for what it is that way there is no misunderstanding. And my reading comprehension is quite good Mac, I wanted to hear your issues from the SOURCE which is why I gave you my PH# and told you to call collect. Nothing More, Nothing Less. Remember you PM'd me about wanting to know why I used that terminology in my post in your dead suncoast thread and that is why I PM'd you the number AND to call collect. There I posted it twice... in case you are sloooooow.

And SHOW ME WHERE I ACCUSED MIKE! If Mike were not proficient at his trade, there is no doubt in my mind that he would not be successful in business as he is.

It was posed as a question. Installer? Parts? I do not know DO YOU?


Keep Spinning Mac.... but you are running a bit lean on the same old whine.

Why? Are you nosey? What good would the information be to you? I'd rather you look like you do when inquiring about my personal affairs and whether or not I'm "green" or dark.

This thread is about DTT not me,kabish?

Like I said Pffffffff get real . Spin,hardly nothing but the facts.Your back peddling

You know nothing of me,don't try to :rolleyes:

:o: Patiently waiting for my Stage 2 DTT….:o:

Why? Are you nosey? What good would the information be to you? I'd rather you look like you do when inquiring about my personal affairs and whether or not I'm "green" or dark.

This thread is about DTT not me,kabish?

Like I said Pffffffff get real . Spin,hardly nothing but the facts.Your back peddling

You know nothing of me,don't try to :rolleyes:
Yes, I am nosey. What good would the information do me? It would put my mind at ease as for your intentions to be clarified over a disturbing email I have. In any event, you chose not to respond so be it.

As far as looking like me Mac, you would need to grow a bit... then we can work on you growing up:D
And let's see.... about the nosey thing... I see you are in this thread and don't know much about it or even DTT... so i guess that makes you nosey.

And yes, you spin around and change directions quite frequently. It's the way you are and you probably can't help it.

Backpedalling? Not likely. People backpedal when they Lie, or when the are in a boxing ring. And I don't Lie, but I can Box pretty good

So get the last word/spin on this in. I tire of your nonsense

Seeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Chad this thread went to **** without me. Step out of the line and there is somebody right behind you to take your place.

Just a guess, but in 5 years I bet internet comunications are scoffed at. Without body language,gestures and the immediate possibilaty of getting your teeth kicked in, things go into orbit quick. I have learned to laugh at it.

I never thought a keyboard could make such a good sheild. Who knew.

Yes, I am nosey. What good would the information do me? It would put my mind at ease as for your intentions to be clarified over a disturbing email I have. In any event, you chose not to respond so be it.

As far as looking like me Mac, you would need to grow a bit... then we can work on you growing up:D
And let's see.... about the nosey thing... I see you are in this thread and don't know much about it or even DTT... so i guess that makes you nosey.

And yes, you spin around and change directions quite frequently. It's the way you are and you probably can't help it.

Backpedalling? Not likely. People backpedal when they Lie, or when the are in a boxing ring. And I don't Lie, but I can Box pretty good

So get the last word/spin on this in. I tire of your nonsense

Again why? Why do you care your thousand of miles away? Of course people will slander me think of the repercussions if they don't get a head start?Are you worried about me? My reputation as a man?A moderator?

Be gullible if you'd like. I'm quite comfortable knowing the truth with the evidence in my hands not some where else.

DTT ,guess I do know more than you,your bad and your in constant contact!You should ask of them and not be concerned with my issues.After all that's the direction of Allison modifications you own.Unless your getting a Suncoast or ATS because you too are having problems.Is that why you want to know about the multiple failures?

I'm a straight forward in your face guy too! Steven let you off the hook,you don't have to defend them.

Run along

On Edit: I would like to say the installer who did my transmission,I would let him in back my Allison in a heartbeat.When the transmission was assembled the second time it was right.100% right,all i's were dotted and t's were crossed.This is true as it was completely looked over in Nov and given a clean bill of health by the manufacture,when upgraded to a stage V and refreshed,it has since limped itself.

We Us incompetent fools! I will remind you as told by Joe Webb at Suncoast Converters here on the DieselPlace only went back in to half the valve body per instructions to replace A/B trim solenoid springs that were a no go after shipment back to us,as it wasn't working and threw soom manifold pressure SES's,before it was filled with fluid.


I look forward to a change!

:o: Patiently waiting for my Stage 2 DTT….:o:

Got a Snickers bar?

I was there when Mike was finally able to speak with Bill before the build.

Mike asked for and received all recommended tolerances from Bill again which he wrote down and compared with some previous info. I overheard Mike telling Bill he didn't want to install a Transgo because he wanted this to be a DTT deal all the way, so the Transgo didn't go in until it didn't work correctly.

I watched the tranny go together with the tolerances provided. There were no valves. Why? No idea. Apparently, DTT had valves for the kit, but they weren't there for this one.

I think DTT cheated themselves by not providing everything they had for the tranny for whatever reason and Chad gets to suffer for it.

Sad.

Hey, is there a reward for the case? I knew where it was all along!

Big Dipper,

Bill's computer is generally left on and Shanti is the one that reads it , contrary to what you may think he is mostly in the build shop and machine shop we are swamped. He usually does his reading at night.

Mike got all the parts, he chose to put in a transgo shift , we do not use them in a DTT transmisison. What part of that was so difficult to understand. We told him that. we run our pressures at 285 to 315 , we told him that. Why would the truck get released at 500 psi,would he release an ATS or Suncoast at that if the answer is yes why even continue this conversation. Mike modified the pump we did not do that . Chad has a right to be pissed off but not at DTT , we did not charge him a dime.As for us sticking to the Dodge market, you wish, we already know how many 600 hp Chev's are not living. We get the calls every week about them.

We are NHRA drag racers, one thing you will find out that all of us have in common is that not one of us running over 500 hp, not one single one will you find running Transgo. Why do you guys think that is ?

I find it interesting that we get accused of not shipping all the parts. Why the heck would we do that, so we could get the positive publicity of a thread like this. Give your head a shake and grow up. People need to start taking responsibility for their own actions.

I am going to work on my racecar.

Well Stefan....I was making over 600hp with my Dmax before you probably even owned one......mine trans works fine thanks to Joe Webb at Suncoast. Conversations between Mike and I have forced us to come up with new ideas and most of that gets communicated with Joe at some point and that's where we are today......mine is still working fine....

As far as pressure goes...you sent him a shim...he installed it....you made the shim and "tested":rolleyes: it , so why would you not know how much pressure it would produce. Simple...you are not telling the truth. Why would you not send the parts you ask.....good question. Your simple way out is to blame Mike and wash your hands of the whole thing. Meanwhile, Chad gets screwed....by DTT only at this time....because you don't want to share all the components thinking what....Mike would show them to Joe..Transgo...????...Clint...dunno..you give me the reason. There were more than 3-4 people standing there when you told him you weren't sending any valves and to install the Transgo. You sealed DTT's fate when you decided to hold back on the parts. None of this is personal, I don't have anything to gain, but the real world should know the truth - which you my friend are not telling.

Weird thing about this is I don't even know Chad...and I don't want to. The thing here is you and your crew boasted about a trans that was gonna change the Dmax world....no shift kit for us you said.....we do things this way, that way.....Joe's doing this wrong.....a Co-Pilot won't hold a candle to the way our trans shifts. Well Jr, the old tricks don't necessarily work with the Allison.

A tip on the PR valve...your shim is a hair to thick. Go back and measure the length of the valve, compare that to the measurement you get when combining the top and bottom stop, now measure the spring where it reaches coil bind....you'll find why you have 500psi jacka$$.

Agreed.

And that is all she wrote. :hail:

Dipper you better get your commission check,need help collecting, I'm with ya! It isn't that far ;)

DTT = Dipper Transmission Troubleshooting! ):h

*WARNING* Long post follows. I've been reading but haven't had time to respond so here's a response to all the questions and some corrections to Stefan's posts.

what have they had to say?Stefan pretty much said it in his above two posts.

Are they going to take care of it for you and arrange a local place to R&R it?No. Since Mike did the labor and he isn't an "Authorized" DTT installer they are not willing to handle this as a warranty issue. In fact, they don't have a warranty. There is absolutely no mention in writing or verbally of a warranty with their transmissions. In fact, a claim of hp holding capacity is not even mentioned anywhere that I can find. Only the increases in area and clutch holding capacity, which aren't guaranteed. If you're looking for a warranty you better consider ATS and Suncoast for now. DTT is new to the Allison though so I assume they'll have a warranty once they're done developing the product.

Hopefully they don't want you to ship it back to them as i know you've been getting ready for the races and wouldn't want your truck sitting any longer than need be. Heck i know you're not making anywhere near the power of some of the juiced up LB7's. Its to bad to hear it didn't last. hopefully it was a fluke and DTT's customer service will stand behind it! This is one of the times that seperates the good tranny companies from the rest- when its time to take care of the customer. I hope they do you right.Shipping is the only way it could be handled at this point in time. I offered to pay for it both ways but things didn't work out on that. The upcoming races will be ran in my LB7. It still runs low 13's up here with the Suncoast. I hope it was a fluke too. Looks like someone else will finally be getting a Stage 2 so it'll be interesting to hear his results.

I don't think there will be any warranty on this considering I did the work. Their fault, my fault , anybodys fault; doesn't matter. I have a truck down and my only concern is to put it back on the road reliably as soon as I can. I will do it my way this time.Fortunately, I was wise enough to have Mike do the work. I've got someone in my corner willing to do everything possible to correct the problem with the customer which is what I'm interested in at this point. He was willing to take a loss (which I won't let him do) to make sure I (his customer) am happy.

How many Duramaxes are running DTT transmissions? Any other owners care to speak up?Trannytom has installed 4 Stage Ones and no Stage Twos. Bill indicated to me just prior to my install that I was second for a Stage 2 only after Juice (and Stefan but that one doesn't count). Now, it's probably a handful more on the Stage 1's and I honestly believe that the third Stage 2 is in the shipping route now to Elowe. However, this is only assumption.

I wonder if someone else besides them would have installed yours if they would have blamed that mishap on installation.All signs point to yes.

:o: Patiently waiting for my Stage 2 DTT….:o:Me too.... Let us know how it goes for you.

Parts were shipped for Trippin’s truck Parts were put in Chad’s truck.You guys knew they were going in my truck at least three weeks prior to the actual install. The first time I talked to you about the transmission upgrades I mentioned having Mike do the install. It also seems that you trusted Mike with the testing so I don't know at what point you stopped trusting him and decided he was no longer qualified to install the parts. If you felt he was qualified to install them and even more qualified to test them and give you feedback on Trippin's truck, why wouldn't he be qualified to install them on my truck?

Kit including shipping was about $ 1000, consisted of C1, C2, piston & housing, C3, C4 pistons and seals and a case. Remember this was special pricing so Mike could mess around with Trippins truck.We did not ship any pressure controlling items at all.I have no idea what was and wasn't shipped anymore. Mike showed me the parts, some extras you had sent for him to comment on, and told me when each of them came in. Mike called you to inquire about shiming the pump. Bill advised "two quarters" and Mike laughed (since that's Mike's expression given two quarters is close to 130 thousanths which is commonly used). Mike asked for an actual increment and Bill advised 167 thousanths. Mike scribbled through the third "shim measurement" and wrote 167 thousanths. I guess he had been given a couple different numbers in previous conversations. So that's what we shimmed to. As I've previously stated it shifted like sh*t so we added the Transgo trim valves. Shifting better. Now we've got 500 psi.

As Chad had made the trip to CA and had only just gotten home we offered to have Nathan trailer the truck here,Nathan was kind enough to re-arrange some of schedule to facilitate our request and planned to bring up the truck. It was all arranged and then didn’t work out as it was Chad’s mothers birthday or something that got in the way of the truck making the trip. Give me a break, how much more could you guys expect us to do. As the arrangements we made did not work for Chad, we tried again.I too wish this arrangement would have worked out. However, maybe Nathan didn't tell you but he didn't end up leaving Sunday anyway so my Mother's birthday wasn't the problem. Yes, I told Nathan I would be unable to meet him as planned on Sunday due to my mother's birthday since he didn't know when he would be going through other than it would be that night. Nathan, I do appreciate your willingness to help me out in this situation. Had I received your message a bit earlier the day you left I would have made the arrangements to meet you but because I was at work I didn't have my cell phone on when you left. Thanks again though.

DTT then told Chad, get us the tranny and we will turn it around within 24 hours if he shipped it to us. We are a very, very, busy shop that would have meant late hours but we still offered to do it. No labour charges what so ever. Chad informed he was going to put in a ATS tranny so he was not sending us his tranny. We tried our best to assist and he had obviously made other plans. We did not hear back after that.I don't deny that you offered this. However, you know as well as I do that I was in a time crunch to get this thing back in for the upcoming races this Friday. Therefore, shipping up and back was not a fast enough option for me. Pulling the truck to Denver for an ATS install would be much quicker and since time was the critical thing at that point that seemed like my best option.

You have got to be kidding we thought, we have trucks on the rack, twins going on in the shop and now need to pull our guys off what they are doing to yank our tranny out , Bill and his business partner discussed it and agreed to do it but all things considered we would put a charge on the outbound tranny till Chads got back to DTTNo, I wasn't kidding. That's what I would call customer service. I was impressed you were going to do it. It's too bad you didn't as the entire outcome of this situation would have been entirely different. You make or break a customer with customer service.

Oh, and the outbound tranny charge wasn't a problem. You don't take Amex though. And you decide to tell me that you need to charge me $3,000 30 minutes before you have to ship the trans. Great, I've got to run home to get my personal credit card (since it's in my wallet in my truck that's in the garage still). I call you back and you try to charge the card. Doesn't go through since your in Canada and it's a large purchase. So what do you do, try to charge it a second time for a different amount?!? Now the credit card company suspects fraud and suspends all activity to my card for 6 hours. You make the decision not to ship the transmission. That was the cut off point between getting the trans here in time for the races and not. At that point it made no difference so I made the choice to quit wasting my time with it this week.

I am to the point now of wanting a complete new tranny that I KNOW will work. Why would I want to give you guys additional money to make something work that should have worked in the first place?

Juice, you dont have to defend a thing. We are not the least concerned about it so dont you be.You're absolutely right. Juice shouldn't be concerned. But as my friend he is because he recommended you guys. I too say don't worry Juice. I'm a big boy and can make my own decisions. It's too bad you guys aren't concerned. But that goes back to the customer service thing.

Mike got all the parts, he chose to put in a transgo shift , we do not use them in a DTT transmisison.No, but your installers do ;) One of your authorized installers has told me he's had to use a Transgo kit on every one of his Stage 1 installs... It was needed in my case as well. Had Mike received all the parts needed to actually do this upgrade properly than no, we wouldn't have had to use a Transgo kit.

Weird thing about this is I don't even know Chad...and I don't want toNot your type or what? :D Regardless of our differences we both know what's going on here (although, on this subject, I'm sure you've got me beat).

----

Stefan, if the offer is still open I will send this transmission to you as it is to be "corrected." That way I can give an accurate review of the transmission. If you feel that it's necessary to charge me for everything in it I'll pay it. I think that's chicken sh*t but I'll do it. Just make sure that when Shanti runs the card this time and it declines that she doesn't run it again so that I can call my card bank first and let them know it's ok.

Well I really don't know anyone involved here and don't care to get in the middle of this, but from the outside looking in, I have a few things to say...

In this case I believe DTT should pay all costs involved, mostly due to the fact that this kit was originally a "test" kit to begin with, no matter who's truck it was going into (Trippin's or Chad's) An Allison is an Allison regardless, right?

I also believe Chad should be given a "right" DTT tranny to evaluate, which is only going to benefit DTT in the long run. It's kind of like advertising: You have to spend money to make money... and DTT should be atleast considering this.

and lastly, the transgo seems to be a good upgrade and sure glad that's all I am doing to my truck:ro)

Dan

In this case I believe DTT should pay all costs involved, mostly due to the fact that this kit was originally a "test" kit to begin with, no matter who's truck it was going into (Trippin's or Chad's) An Allison is an Allison regardless, right?

I also believe Chad should be given a "right" DTT tranny to evaluate, which is only going to benefit DTT in the long run. It's kind of like advertising: You have to spend money to make money... and DTT should be atleast considering this.
Although it would be nice they aren't going to pay all costs. IMO that would be the customer service side of things. At this point I just want to get the mess resolved and get a "real" DTT transmission so that I can really test it.

In my opinion what should happen is they should build a new one once they get some cores and send it to me and I'll send this one back. In fact, I'll send this one back FIRST so there's no need to do the core thing. I'll even have one of their "Authorized" installers R&R it if need be. That's another day of my time but I'm willing to work this out.

I don't feel like I should have to pay all the costs for this but I'm willing to pay something since I made the decision to have Mike do it and they didn't like that.

Chad,

First off, I want to tip my hat to you for your behavior throughout this "comedy of errors". Since it is still a brand new product, there are inherent risks until all the "bugs" are completely worked out. Most people would have blown up like a nuclear bomb had it happened to them. I hope it all works out for you.....

Even so, I still think DTT is a good company, with a good product. One mishap doesn't a reputation make. Maybe a standardization of the other pieces required to install and work with their proprietry parts is in order. They don't deserve a butt-reaming for this any more than Mike does. Something wasn't right, so lets get it fixed.

Tom :pig:











Now, would SOMEONE in power please tell Mackin to be quiet? These attack posts of his over the last 2 weeks have crossed the line. Please, as a concerned member, I ask that you administer your rules equally, moderators included.

this is stefan but bill was logged in I will post under my name.

Someone pass the POPCORN...........:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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T:cool: NY
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Hmm... I guess I should rephrase my question:

Who has raced their Duramax with a DTT trans? How many passes? How did it shift?
These transmissions are bought for hi-po applications. Putting around town and saying it's great ain't cutting it.

If nobody has raced one yet, sounds like it has not even been tested. Certainly I'm wrong.

PS - There is not alot of guys on the planet with more rebuilding time on Allisons than Inglewood Transmissions. I've heard very, very few complaints about Mike's work (errr... none). If Mike can't get a trans kit to function correctly, who can?

But they did want Mike to do it because they sent the parts to him in the first place... Didn't they want Mike to install their tranny on trippin's truck in the first place? To me that is considered testing and not a final product whatsoever, especially given the fact that their is no stated (or known) warranty regarding failure... right there tells me that DTT should pay up for not covering their butts.

I know where you are coming from Chad and I am blown away by how kind you are in this situation... I'd be running up to Canada like a rocket if it were me. I commend you for your patience.

It seems every DTT related thread has too much "secret squirrel" nonsense going on... something needs to be done and lines need to be drawn.

If something is a "test" kit, it should be labeled as such and backed by the company who built it, and willing to pay up if the "test" fails.

If something is "final product", then we (consumers) need to know the warranty and should be given access to that information... also, the manufacturer of the "final product" should stand behind their product. In this case DTT has claimed Mike is not a qualified and trained DTT installer, but they contradicted themselves in sending Mike the parts in the first place if it were in fact the "final product".

I am just trying to give an honest, impartial and objective report to what I have read and the facts given in this case. I have nothing to lose or gain from posting this and I want everyone to be aware of that disclaimer.

Dan

Chad,












Now, would SOMEONE in power please tell Mackin to shut up or get out? These attack posts of his over the last 2 weeks have crossed the line. Please, as a concerned member, I ask that you administer your rules equally, moderators included.

No problem idiot,you don't mind if I call you idiot do you? I find that equal don't you?

First of this isn't a test kit, it was for Mike to decide how he liked the system and for DTT to see if Mike did all the things that we have our installers do such as pressure tests and so on.

Mike did call for clearances which was good, but never called the pressures in or we would have obviously told him that 500psi was way to high, which I'm sure he already knows.

As far as Big Dipper saying that we sent the wrong size shim, I don't see how that is possible considering that we didn't send one. Although Mike didn't say we did on here so someone might be putting words in his mouth.

What were the pressure before the transgo? Were they 500psi? If so why didn't someone say so over the phone? Were the pressures tested before Chad left?

Even so, I still think DTT is a good company, with a good product. One mishap doesn't a reputation make. Maybe a standardization of the other pieces required to install and work with their proprietry parts is in order. They don't deserve a butt-reaming for this any more than Mike does. Something wasn't right, so lets get it fixed.
I'm still trying to work with them. Bill and Stefan have always been good to talk to and have been good friends. This situation has just made things very difficult.

I'm in the same camp as most, I just want to get it fixed at this point. Fortunately I'm not up against a time thing now which was a big part of the problem.

Hmm... I guess I should rephrase my question:

Who has raced their Duramax with a DTT trans? How many passes? How did it shift?
These transmissions are bought for hi-po applications. Putting around town and saying it's great ain't cutting it.

If nobody has raced one yet, sounds like it has not even been tested. Certainly I'm wrong.

PS - There is not alot of guys on the planet with more rebuilding time on Allisons than Inglewood Transmissions. I've heard very, very few complaints about Mike's work (errr... none). If Mike can't get a trans kit to function correctly, who can?
I raced the DTT trans that I had. Bandimere several weekends ago. Made 4 passes. I've also made about 20 unofficial passes, plus all the day to day driving (and I don't putt). I'm not going to comment on the shifting quality since it wasn't a "real" DTT transmission.

Chad,

I'm up for splitting the costs with you on this thing.

Obviously I was going to buy the parts in the first place.

As you stated in an earlier post you want the best for your truck as do I.

We are both willing to pony up to research different items in order to find the best for our needs. This case is no different. (no pun intended) :D

No problem idiot,you don't mind if I call you idiot do you? I find that equal don't you?
I don't mind at all, since I'm not one to start with. Equality is relative, I guess...:rolleyes:

Tom :pig:

I have tried to stay out of this because nobody wins a pissing contest. A lot of you members have talked to me on the phone, and many of you have spent money with me. I feel honared with your trust. None of you members really know what the conversations were between me, Chad, and DTT and there is no way to prove anything. It does not matter. What matters is, there is a members Duramax down that should not be. Why isn't DTT busting their butts to get this members Duramax on the road? I am. I have ordered a core Allison to get ready to get hiss A$$ back on the road. I have not asked for a credit card number. I stand by my reputation and honesty.

Now
Stefan you are the biggest liar that ever lived. Everything you posted is a lie. Got Juice is right there with you. Can I prove it? No. I was going to rip you guys tonight starting with Juices bul**** 500 plus horsepower dyno last year that both you and Bill admitted to being a lie. I was also going to tell how you had Juices truck for over a month and what you broke on it and your phone calls to me asking why. You were also aware that Chad was coming into town for the DTT mod well ahead of time and you chose not to send me all the parts. You told Chad that you did not trust me and you were afraid I would show your secrets to Transgo. I am sorry, but Transgo would laugh you out of the industry, or, maybe your trim valves are a copy of Transgo. You also ran a Transgo shift kit, by your own admission in Juices truck. You never sent me the complete parts till a day before Chad got to my shop. How was I going to test this in Trippins truck when Juices truck was not done and no parts. I kept calling for the parts and Stefan made all kinds of excuses. I finally bypassed him and got totaly different story from Bill. Can I prove this? No

Now
Lets talk about this twin turbo that makes no power. Wonder why Juice won't show a picture? Why won't Stefan show a picture? Want me to post a picture of Juices twins? I wouldn't either.
Once again I call you a liar Stefan, the same goes for Juice and I will say that to your face. Believe it or not, this is the truth. You guys decide.
mike

Chad,

I'm up for splitting the costs with you on this thing.

Obviously I was going to buy the parts in the first place.

As you stated in an earlier post you want the best for your truck as do I.

We are both willing to pony up to research different items in order to find the best for our needs. This case is no different. (no pun intended) :DThanks for the offer Guy but I will clean this mess up. No sense dragging more people into it. We're after the same goal though. I wanted to evaluate a new product and it bit me in the a$$. Although I didn't expect it I was prepared to an extent.

A lot of people were waiting for a report from me so this is it. I didn't post to get revenge against DTT or anything else. I posted to satisfy those awaiting my experiences and opinions. Nothing more or less. That's part of testing a product. I hope DTT will ultimately step up and help me get this problem resolved. I have yet to receive that phone call though so I may have to take the initiative tomorrow if they'll take the call... May be a little awkward but maybe we can make something happen.

No problem idiot,you don't mind if I call you idiot do you? I find that equal don't you?
LMAO... no Mac, some are just more qualified than others):h

Now
Lets talk about this twin turbo that makes no power. Wonder why Juice won't show a picture? Why won't Stefan show a picture? Want me to post a picture of Juices twins? I wouldn't either.
Once again I call you a liar Stefan, the same goes for Juice and I will say that to your face. Believe it or not, this is the truth. You guys decide.
mikeCome To Canada.
I'll pay for the flight and the ring time if you really want to call me a liar to my face.

Step up or step off.

And no it wouldn't prove anything, but it would be most satisfying.

Pepper I apologize for my personal affairs being drug to these threads and myself having to defend the untruths and lies.
Thanks for being stand up about it...

I don't know 100% what went on and I really don't want to know... It's none of my business...

I just wish all this cr@p would just go away...

It is honestly(seriously) a terrible coincidence that two mods have had problems with their aftermaket trans (I mean, what are the odds?)... It makes for an ugly situation.

While I think the big two Co.'s are both excellent and that no one was purposely trying to screw each other.. to some who may not have been around y'all that long , it could definately raise some questions...

Heck, If I didn't know you from long ago I would think the worst case,... preferential treatment, deep discounts extortion etc...

It's a tough line you have to walk (being a mod) sometimes... I've thought you crossed it on occasion but nonetheless it put you, and now Chad in the spotlight...


I just wish no one would go public with all the noise till every last ditch effort has been made to clear it up... and even then if the out come is not favorable it should be kept real low key (for mods anyway)... thats the sticky part, but thats part of being a mod

I'm a moderator because of my technical abilities and knowledge of the software and servers and for no other reason. I can do that stuff w/o anyone knowing it and could care less. I help Nick with other duties on the forum as needed and when he asks because believe it or not it is very easily a full time job for one person.

I will always voice my opinions and if having the word "moderator" under my name makes that a problem I'll gladly remove it. It's there because I'm in that "User Group" which makes it standard but since I'm in that user group I can change it. I've chose not to because a lot of people see that and send me private messages with questions about using the site which I am more than happy to answer. Without that they would have one less person to ask.

It's also very much any member's choice to not read a thread. It's also very much any member's choice to make their own decision about someone's opinion.

I'm a moderator because of my technical abilities and knowledge of the software and servers and for no other reason. I can do that stuff w/o anyone knowing it and could care less. I help Nick with other duties on the forum as needed and when he asks because believe it or not it is very easily a full time job for one person.

I will always voice my opinions and if having the word "moderator" under my name makes that a problem I'll gladly remove it. It's there because I'm in that "User Group" which makes it standard but since I'm in that user group I can change it. I've chose not to because a lot of people see that and send me private messages with questions about using the site which I am more than happy to answer. Without that they would have one less person to ask.

It's also very much any member's choice to not read a thread. It's also very much any member's choice to make their own decision about someone's opinion.
I get the feeling you took my post all wrong... ( do I need to shut up now?)

I think you know what I was trying to say... It's hard to be both without "others" (not me) not thinking wrong things...

Chad,

You seem to be very mild tempered compared to what I would be at this point, and I commend you for that...

All I was trying to say is you guys have it tough, trying to be both Mods and users...

That being said... When I responded to Mac's response to mine. I didn't even look at all that had transpired I just wert straight to his post (where I left off)
and responded. No ill thoughts here about either you or Mac .

I'll just leave it at that, I don't want anything else taken the wrong way...

Chad,

thanks for being professional about this.. just got home from work and a lot has transpired. You sure have a lot of class for such a youngin' ):h ):h

LMAO... no Mac, some are just more qualified than others):h




More provocation and then wonder why the response originally? I hope the rest see who is provoking who continually into yet another ugly incident :rolleyes:

Right Bacon? Equal treatment to those who deserve it! If I should be poked in the eye,I should poke their eye out too! Oh that's not in the moderator book ,I skipped that page that said be a wussy,my bad.

I wouldn't have brought my woe's into this topic or others for that matter,but from now on if brought, I'm gonna bring it.Unfortunately there is always some, a small handfull, who just don't get it. I think they do it for the attention,when like you said it's none of their business.


No problem here Pepper! I'm sure Chad feels the same. :)

Speed, you have handled yourself very, very well. I must tip my hat to ya. :pimp: Maybe you can teach "somebody else" how to handle themselves with manners.




Perception is in the eye of the beholder, good or bad. What DTT does may reflect what they want ours to be, no matter who or what is at fault. ;)

Kac -:t

Kac -:t
What does Kac mean/stand for??? :confused:

What does Kac mean/stand for??? :confused:

Hair Ball don't worry it's cleared :D

Dunno. Topics like this strike a personal note with me.

Throwing personalities out of the equation, here's what a typical owner is seeing here:

A new product comes out. It gets rave reviews from folk who refuse to say anything but "it's great" and are affiliated with the mfr.

The first "neutral" truck owner who gets one installed at reputable shop has it malfunction.

Mfr blames it on the install. No warranty.

Mfr cannot demonstate a truck with the product working correctly to a neutral party.

Let's say in fact the install WAS wrong. Enduser cannot expect that his installer will get it right either, as none have worked. There may not even be a right way to install it.

I feel bad for the parties involved; mfr/customer/installer. But unless the mfr can actually prove the product does work (not a custom "shop" truck or cheerleader) it seems they should step up to the plate and prove it WILL work at their expense. Why? Just to prove it CAN work. Right now, there is no proof.

It is the burden of the mfr to insure that their product can be installed by a competent shop and function correctly 99% of the time. Or they should NOT be selling them.

If I had ordered one of these, I'd hold off to see what happens in this case before opening the box. There may not be a way to make it work, and it looks like it is possible that you will have to eat it.

I can't understand for the life of me why this kind of carrying on is acceptable, other than the fact that controversy and pissing matches make for good entertainment (to some).

When a person is made a moderator, it seems to me that the authority granted can only be effective if the general population respects that authority. That respect should come from having upstanding behavior, good judgement, and an ability to communicate respectfully in tough situations. A mod has the authority to shut down conversations, so in simple terms, they shouldn't be having conversations that need shut down.

Yes, mods should be allowed to "jag around" with people and have fun like any other member, and I think as long as it's done with a smilie, we know what's intended. Generally speaking, we can all tell the difference between giving someone a ribbing and being a jackass.

I was always taught that when I have a problem, I work it out with the other person first and say nothing to anyone. If that fails, I bring a 3rd party in to intermediate. If that fails, as a last resort, when all other avenues have been exhausted and one or both parties fails to budge, I go public. As a last resort. And at that point I better be prepared for all the fallout, good and bad. That's why it's a last resort.

I see now two cases where the golden rule has been bent and twisted. One case appears to be a lot more egregious than the other, but that's just my third hand observation.

Here's a few suggestions:

1) Mods need to be people who can be objective and stay "above the fray." If they can't, let's be done with them as mods. Get someone else.
2) When mods have issues, before dragging out all the laundry, instead, can they work with DP and try to get things resolved beforehand?
3) Mods should agree that it is unacceptable to accept free parts and/or special treatment from vendors and suppliers. If you want to do that, take a gag order. No cheerleading your favorite product or bashing the competition. It is disrespectful and embarrassing to the entire community to have one foot on both sides of the fence.

The only reason I mention DP in #2 is that he is the owner. I know he might not want to be the middleman, but he carries himself well and from what I can tell, has the respect of the members. Furthermore, the mods are more or less his lieutenants, so what he lets them do reflects on him and the Place.

I just think that we can do better than what we have done. Two threads have caused the loss of quite a bit of money and respect.

Drop the personalities guys.

This a product review.

Let's see how it's handled.

FWIW, I have never been given a thing for free or even discounted because of my short term as a moderator here. I have paid as much as any other member for everything I've purchased since November. I have received discounts for testing certain things (this wasn't one of them). I don't know why everyone assumes we get stuff for free or discounted but it simply doesn't happen. There are really only three moderators at this point: Nick, Mac, and myself. There are other moderators of specific forums but us three are the only ones most users see.

I agree with McRat. This is a product review. I didn't air dirty laundry here. This thread would have existed, good or bad. It's a product review. The mfr of the product is obviously part of that review. I had hoped the review would be different. Let's keep it focused on that.

I really dont think anything was aimed at you. I know it dosnt matter and we should try to stay on topic but, Chad you have shown exeptional restraint and have delt with this in a very tactful manner. I cant see anyone questioning your intergiry. You are also truely lucky to have Mike working on your truck. I hope that good comes out of all this for not only you but also the community. Kudos

As rat says, I'm not questioning your integrity, sp33d. I'm just saying that I think there's room here to improve as we move forward.

My question is, is this a real product yet? It sounds more like a beta test than anything.

this thread is about chad's DTT, and it WILL stay that way. keep the thread on topic- any posts not related to chad's DTT will be removed.

Mac, juice, and anyone else who has gotten into a pissing contest- you are all big boys. Don't poke a stick if you don't want to anger someone. its that's simple. and if you do make someone angry then you must expect them to respond. If that happens don't cry to me that a moderator is abusing his power as mac hasn't deleted one post in this whole argument and he won't as that would be abusing his moderator ability. For the life of me i do not understand why poeple are so nosy and get involved in someone else's business. Mac's tranny was in HIS truck. his deal was between him, his installer, and suncoast. if you are neither of these three parties then i suggest you leave it alone. i for one am tiring of people bringing this up, poking a stick at him, and then complaining when they get a response. its the complaining that irks me. mac may poke his own stick at times as many of us do, but he doesn't complain to me and ask me for help or special treatment when someone responds. he doesn't edit or delete their posts either. I have received many pm's from people that feel they should be able to throw their digs and have him stay silent. well that isn't the case. we are owners and enthuiasts as well and do this because we enjoy our trucks and enjoy helping people. we don't get paid nor get free equipment for favorable products reviews as other diesel truck forums do. i've had many offers but chose not to allow it given the message it sends to the member base.

this is only directed at a few members as most of you are adults and can deal with the results of your own actions, as well as know what concerns you and what doesn't. please understand that. i have the utmost respect for 99% of the member base here but some of you need to grow up and live your own lives. i've chosen to stay out of this for one simple reason- it doesn't involve me. why would one agrue a story, of which he is NONE of the parties concerned, especially when he only knows one side of it? the answer is simple- because the individual is NOSY and doesn't know how to mind his own business. this creates a paradox that never ends and people never agree. and it gets old and poeple sour of it. i know i have. if the few of you this is directed to insist upon acting like children then i will be forced to limit content on this forum so that ONLY THE PARTIES involved can discuss things. do you really want it to come to that? i don't!! i've seen it happen on other forums and want this to stay open.

as most of you know and chad pointed out, there are basically 3 moderators for the whole forum and a couple that help out in small sections. being a moderator involves donating hours of your time a day for FREE and be scrutinized by everyone. we answer questions, fix user problems, as well as try and do our paying jobs and family lives. belive me it isn't fun but someone has to do it. there are many posts we've all written and not submitted as we don't feel its appropriate given our title.

That being said accept the course of your actions and be an adult about it. Don't try to get someone to fist-fight you across the country. I had really hoped all of us would have grown out of that in elementry school. comments regarding the moderating abilities of the staff should be directed to me via PM.

This WILL be the last post in this thread NOT related to chad's DTT. Period. Running this forum has been enlightening to say the least with regards to watching people interact with one another. Sometimes i'd swear some Jerry Springer candidates are here.

Thank you for reading this and apologize for interrupting Chad's thread.

Nick

:lol:
Kinda like that song where the guy builds a Cadillac by taking home parts from the Caddy factory in his lunch box over a period of years. :D

When his friends ask him what year it is he starts on the Chorus its a 67, 68, 69 ,70..........
Johnny Cash built it "One piece at a time"...

FWIW, I had problems with my Suncoast V right out of the box. Trim valves stuck which we corrected by replacing the valve body with one that was on hand.

Joe sent me an entire transmission and converter to swap it out just to make sure it everything was right. I did not ask for install labor (Eric did this one) but incurred no further expense and did the next swap myself.


I've said it before and I'll say it again, I prefer to do full built transmissions that were buttoned up by the manufacturer. This eliminates any possibility of blame shift...

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I prefer to do full built transmissions that were buttoned up by the manufacturer. This eliminates any possibility of blame shift...

That's an excellent point and I agree BUT if the manufacturer offers his product to the consumer in a kit form to be installed by the competent DIY OR installed by a competent tranny shop then the manufacturer should include ALL the parts needed for a quality rebuild.

If DTT had sent the parts to Mike then they obviously think he is a competent mechanic and would be able to install their product with their direction. Now the fact of weather it was Trippin's truck getting the kit or sp33d's dosen't matter, SOMEONE was going to get the kit installed and as the manufacturer with a brand new product out there you would think DTT would want it to work right the first time and as such would of been right on top of the install with Mike helping him along in any way possible and making sure he had ALL the parts necessary to do the job correctlly and been on a speaker phone with him the whole time during the rebuild to answer any question's.

Now wheather or not DTT didn't want Transgo to see any secret part's or any one else for that matter dosen't matter, either you want to put a GOOD product to market for the consumer or you don't.

If you do then go all out and do it right and put all the part's that NEED to be there for the final product to work correctlly, or keep your secret's and don't sell it to anyone.

Either go big or go home.


The fact that Mike was having trouble with getting the answers to the questions that he had during the install speak's more of the charecter of DTT than their final product will, to me.


My .02

Johnny Cash built it "One piece at a time"...




I've said it before and I'll say it again, I prefer to do full built transmissions that were buttoned up by the manufacturer. This eliminates any possibility of blame shift...
I disagree with that prference. I have installed many kits and built many transmissions that I had to modify with very few problems. I have helped many members here do their own Ally mods by talking them through the procedures if they felt uncomfortable doing something for the first time. There should be a quite a few proud members here that did their own work. I am proud of them. There is a place for kits otherwise Suncoast and ATS and Transgo would never make them available to the public. Some kits are more difficult to install than others, but with a little help we get through it just fine.

Not saying it's not do-able, but if there's ever a question, it's hard for the mfr to blame the assembler when the mfr is the assembler.

I know of a couple of catastrophy installs here that were NOT solved with the first rework session...



On edit:

I'll add that there is a difference between having just transmission shop/builder do one and a guy who has done a dozen or so, and works closely with the mfr.

Not sure if "factory assembly" is always an advantage. It really depends on the integrity of the mfr. You find that out when things go bad. I've bought "race-prepped" pre-assembled driveline parts only to have them explode. When I question the mfr about it, they say "OPPSS!!! Looks like go just got screwed!" even when THEY did the work wrong. Excuses vary from "you abused it" to "you didn't buy all our recommended stuff to wash it down with".

If a mfr looks for an "out", they will find it. There always is. You can only go on reputation, and that is paid for with good-will and happy customers.

Johnny Cash built it "One piece at a time"...


Kennedy gets points for knowing the singer.

Bonus points if you can post the correct years of the vehicles he lifted parts from.

Johny was a stud!:cool:

Mike L.

Juice and Stefan wont show pictures of their twins because I wont let them. I also asked Chad not to because I knew the kit wasn't ready for full blown production. Chad wanted a set and we made sure he got one. I spent 30+ hours installing them for free because I knew they weren't ready and not all the parts would be included when I got them. So I built what I needed to to make it work. As you know, because you've seen the setup, it's pretty hard to fit it all under the hood and try to make it look decent. It's even harder to get the kit into full production when I'm busy with other work and DTT is 10hrs away from me. Now for them not making power that is BS. The power will be made with them just like it is with the Dodges. How many LB7's down your way make over 500hp on fuel on a Dynojet? Problems aside Juices truck still made 530hp with zero correction factor. He had never dynoed that high on a dynojet.

All 3 trucks out there with the twins haven't had time or made the time for ample tuning to prove your no power theory wrong. If any of the 3 were mine I'd make the time just to prove you wrong. I'm presently trying to help Stefan get his ready for racing and possibly a dyno run or two. So how much does he need to make to prove to you they make more power?

I usually dont try to get into pissing matches with people on these sites but you dragged me into this when you questioned something I'm working on and have proven to work numerous times on the cummins motor. Just because I'm working with DTT to market these twins doesn't mean they should have been brought up in a thread about a DTT transmission.

Nathan

Nathan

You are the one working on theory, not me. I drove the truck and found it lacking in power. I have time slips that show me going quicker than your twins while I am in my 120 hp mode. My TTS extreme would blow you away. I am sure that your twins when tuned will be much better but they are not now. This twin setup was hyped up on this board as a kit when in fact you had nothing ready. When a manufacturer presents a product and starts hyping it with cheerleaders it should be available in complete kit form and picture should be flowing. This is not the case with your product. As far as the horsepower you guys claim to date; I do not believe a word. Why was Chads truck not prepared like Juices or Stefan to make the same claimed horsepower? Why is not repeatable on other trucks? This was supposed to be your show truck. I could overlook the workmanship if it was fast, but it is not. I am not flaming you and I wish you and your product the best as it has great potential but you should have finished and tested the product before the hype. How long has all this hype been going on and you are not even close to a finished product? I don't think the guys here even care anymore and that is your fault.
mike

Since we're on the subject of twins now I'll add that once I get a transmission under the truck again I've got some new toys that I'm expecting good results from. One of these days I hope we'll have as much fuel as the LB7 guys so that I can satisfy my race needs again. I'm missing my LB7 a bit in that area.

I do agree we need to take the personalities out of this and look at the facts.

Bottom line, truck was released with a pressure reading of 500 PSI. That is a recipe for disaster and absolute failure. These transmissions cannot survive at 500 PSI.

· Company A ships a product to be put in an installers test mule, not because the product is untried or the installer is not any good. This was to allow practice and set up learning time as it is a new system to installer. This would also allow the installer to cost out the job based on set up time per his time involved, schedule ect. While the installer is very familiar with the OEM system by his own admission he is not a high performance builder by trade. Company A appreciated the installer’s candour and shipped the product with this understanding. The parts were all shipped out need for the job.

· Company A finds out that the product is not going to be installed as originally discussed or in the truck as discussed and is concerned as this is the installers first time. They contact the customer and explain their concerns and even offer to do build and install themselves with no labour charges just to be sure all went well. The new intended customer is aware but declines the manufacturers offer and dismisses their concerns and opts to go with the installer anyway. The negotiated fee was obviously between the installer and the customer as that is out of the control of the manufacturer but one would think would be nominal if one was practising on a customers truck. .

· The installer calls several times during the install for set up clearances and at no time was there any mention of 500 PSI. The installer was given an after hours number should the need for assistance arise but it was never used. There was never any mention at any time of 500 psi readings.

· Once the manufacturer became aware of the pressures, they immediately told the customer there was something wrong and the transmission would fail. The fact that the truck made it home was a small miracle. The manufacturer told the customer to yank out the tranny and send it to them, even though they did not build the tranny or get paid to do the work they would give him a hand and fix it.

· That did not happen so the manufacturer again contacted the customer and made arrangements to have the truck trailered to their facility and they would fix it and sent it back on the trailer or he could fly in if he chose to get it. .

· Not only did that not happen but the customer did repeated launches at his home then drove his truck a few hours to the race track , then raced it, drove it home and a couple of weeks later surprise, surprise the tranny finally gave up.

· The entire blame is being put on the manufacturer who had the most to gain by this install going well.

· There are actually guys on this web site that would have you believe that this ended up this way because the manufacturer wanted it to. Why then would they have even offered to help . They want you to believe the manufacturer was so worried about secrets they did not ship the entire kit. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

· Imagine sabotage their own product line get beat up on the internet for? Apparently that makes about as much sense to those of you that have called us as it did to us and we appreciate the phone calls. As we mentioned on the phone we understand why you are staying out of it as well, we don’t want our potential customers taking the heat for something you, or we have no control over. . There are a lot of hidden agendas here and we know that, trust is very important to DTT and we agree, if an installer releases a vehicle with 500 PSI i we don’t want him working on your trucks either. I am glad we are not the only ones that can see that. No one is perfect and we all make mistakes. But you have to care enough every time, every truck and at least don’t blame others for your mistakes. Bottom line, DTT did not release that truck with a line pressure of 500 PSI, as a responsible installer I would have put my customer in a hotel first before I did that .

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>

Have there been any successful kit installs by 2nd party installers for the DTT #2 trans?

Some of the guys that have installed the first phase are booking in for training on the phase 11 but not all of them as of yet. Their trucks have too little mileage at the moment and they prefer full units in till then. Most of the machine run went to full ship out units as that is the biggest demand we have at the present time. As the Chev installers come in for training we know the balance will change to more parts out to them vs the ship out units. You guys have to remember we are training and entire dealer base of our own that is already in place as well with trying to facilitate the new guys that want to book in. We work with transmisison shops all over the world so our shop time is at a premium. We take this stuff very seriously just because a few guys on the internet are trying to bad mouth does not change the fact that if guys want to make power , they are going to need performance builders to make these trannys live with the power and twins. Our installers are like family to us. These guys spend their money fly in train, they go home do a job and we evulate them if they need to they know they can come back or call us at anytime . That is why serious performance builders choose DTT we do not build any oem in our shop at all and neither do most of our builders.

Nathan

You are the one working on theory, not me. I drove the truck and found it lacking in power. I have time slips that show me going quicker than your twins while I am in my 120 hp mode. My TTS extreme would blow you away. I am sure that your twins when tuned will be much better but they are not now. This twin setup was hyped up on this board as a kit when in fact you had nothing ready. When a manufacturer presents a product and starts hyping it with cheerleaders it should be available in complete kit form and picture should be flowing. This is not the case with your product. As far as the horsepower you guys claim to date; I do not believe a word. Why was Chads truck not prepared like Juices or Stefan to make the same claimed horsepower? Why is not repeatable on other trucks? This was supposed to be your show truck. I could overlook the workmanship if it was fast, but it is not. I am not flaming you and I wish you and your product the best as it has great potential but you should have finished and tested the product before the hype. How long has all this hype been going on and you are not even close to a finished product? I don't think the guys here even care anymore and that is your fault.
mike

Mike,

Chad drove his truck after the twin install with his 80hp predator setting and felt the increased power as did I. He couldn't even get the predator program to pull out of the truck when he tried so who knows if it was even working. As you probably well know Chad has had many issue with the boxes that he has tried so until he gets them working properly neither you nor I can say how much your truck has on his. Besides that Chad has a LLY and you have a LB7, which is proven to make more hp on #2, so now we are comparing apples to oranges.

I told everyone on this board that these kits probably wouldn't be released until April or May. It turns out it is taking longer than I thought but the LLY stuff will be ready this month and yes pictures will be posted for people to see.

I never claimed any hp gains to Chad. I provided him with the air required to make high hp. It's up to whatever box or program he chooses to provide the fuel. I know as you should that it takes both to make hp. Chad's mph was in the high 90's at over 5000' which would be over 100 at 1000' or less. How many LLY's have gone over 100mph on fuel only?

Obviously some people do care about the twins as we have several sets on order despite them knowing they are not ready yet. Some people do use their trucks for other thing besides racing and dynoing, such as Juice, and they know the only way to actually use the higher hp every day is twins or a bigger single. So far no one has produced a single to replace the VVT on the LLY's so where does that leave us? Twins?


Nathan

Let us know when the first few get installed with no glitches.

Bottom line, DTT did not release that truck with a line pressure of 500 PSI, as a responsible installer I would have put my customer in a hotel first before I did that .

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Does DTT increase line pressure by shimming or replacing the factory spring?

And what exactly fails when main line pressure is at 500psi?

Mc Rat, the problem is not with the system, this transmission failure was caused by high pressures that we did not endorse, and did not even sell the parts to raise the pressures. We are dealing with a supposed transmission expert if I am hearing you guys correctly, he knew the pressures were set wrong ,took the guy' money, ran to the bank and let him go home. I dont want guys working with me that are only interested in money, they have to have a little pride in workmanship too. If you know something is wrong and you let it go anyways , does that mean you are interested in the customer or the money. If this was a tranny that was to be product reviewed well I guess it got the review he wanted.

The transmission was doomed to fail the moment it left Mike' s shop. Mike can tell you guys whatever he wants, he let it go with 500 psi, he can blame DTT for that, Chad can blame DTT , every member on this website can blame DTT. The fact remains we did not sell him anything to raise the pressures to that level, Mike did that on his own. Bottom line , he took the money , sent the customer home and DTT is being held responsible.

:eek:

:eek::eek: :eek:

Bill Kondolay

What exactly could have gone wrong on the install? IIRC there was two tear downs that have been reported.The first it was said it shifted not well,then changes were made.

Was there any communication as what to try in between?

Chad said the transmission did not shift right, I asked for the pressure readings, at that time Chad did not know. Whether the pressures were at 500 PSI before the transgo shift kit was installed or after I cannot say as I was not told that.

In either case , had the pressures been at 500 psi before they added a shift kit , that would have been an indication that there was something wrong with the pump assembly since the valve body had not been modified yet at that point in time.

As Chad explained the transmission was not shifting properly, logic would have dicated the clearances were set wrong in the transmission clutch packs which is very critical in this set up or the pressure was wrong. If they already knew they had a 500 psi reading then logic would have dictated that they take the transmission back out and examine the pump since the valve body was not modified at this point.

If the pressures increase happened after the Transgo shift kit was installed, then logic would have been dictated that the vb had to be re pulled out and find out why the pressures was at 500 psi.

The way our system is designed we do not need a lot of high line pressure as we have increased the size of the pistons. We use shims same as everyone else. We have played with pressure regulator springs in our R & D phases but the consistency did not meet our expectations so we do not use them. On the average we run anywhere from 275psi to about 305psi, while we have gone as high as 325psi we dont recommend it.

No matter how you slice it and dice it, we did not release that truck with 500 psi and would never endorse or release a truck with 500 psi.

Mc Rat, the problem is not with the system, this transmission failure was caused by high pressures that we did not endorse, and did not even sell the parts to raise the pressures. We are dealing with a supposed transmission expert if I am hearing you guys correctly, he knew the pressures were set wrong ,took the guy' money, ran to the bank and let him go home. I dont want guys working with me that are only interested in money, they have to have a little pride in workmanship too. If you know something is wrong and you let it go anyways , does that mean you are interested in the customer or the money. If this was a tranny that was to be product reviewed well I guess it got the review he wanted.

The transmission was doomed to fail the moment it left Mike' s shop. Mike can tell you guys whatever he wants, he let it go with 500 psi, he can blame DTT for that, Chad can blame DTT , every member on this website can blame DTT. The fact remains we did not sell him anything to raise the pressures to that level, Mike did that on his own. Bottom line , he took the money , sent the customer home and DTT is being held responsible.

I'm still not getting an answer if this a viable alternative to Suncoast or ATS that has been proven to work. Have you gotten the kit to work?

There is no way you can diagnosis a failure without an autopsy. Was the line pressure to blame? I haven't read anything yet that indicates that was the root cause of the failure. It's conjecture at this point.

I blew a rear out of car shortly after install that was "race-prepped" by a reputable race shop. When I called up to tell them, they IMMEDIATELY told me why it failed without even seeing it. They were 100% wrong. They were just covering their fanny.

Hopefully this is not the same situation, where a mfr "knows" what blew up before seeing it.

From what I'm told from my Dodge friends, your shop has an excellent reputation. I'm sure you will do what is fair in this matter.

Bill, when you set clearance, is that a wet clutch or a dry clutch or does it matter?




..................

As far as Big Dipper saying that we sent the wrong size shim, I don't see how that is possible considering that we didn't send one. Although Mike didn't say we did on here so someone might be putting words in his mouth.




We use shims same as everyone else. We have played with pressure regulator springs in our R & D phases but the consistency did not meet our expectations so we do not use them. On the average we run anywhere from 275psi to about 305psi, while we have gone as high as 325psi we dont recommend

This is where it gets confusing.In addition it was said Mike received the whole kit.Kind of weird considering you both are in the same location doing the same thing.

So were there shims or not? If not than how was the DTT target pressure going to be achieved?

I just wonder as some pretty strong accusations were made about a installer who has helped many,voluntarily I will add.I wouldn't want anyone getting the wrong idea if at all possible

I am of the opinion that at some point this is going to get more interesting than it already is. I just hope that everyone is ready for the "I told you so" factor when the sh!t hits the fan on this one.

What I want to know is how is it running now? Also if you order the "whole" kit, do you get that or just parts and have to wait for the rest? Just a question...

McRat I have a similar situation that happened to a buddy of ours in the racing industry that is actually very similar to what is happening here,

Our buddy has a motor that is running fine, it goes roughly 8.20 @ 165, but he wants to go in the 7's. So his engine guy tells him get these AFR cylinder heads (I believe that someone from AFR is even a member that is on this thread) and we'll run 7's no problem. So they get them, throw them on the motor bring it to the track, tow it to the line. The thing sounds like s##T, and blows up.

We come over to his pit to see what happened, to find that the idiot builder didn't check piston to valve clearance. Motor is screwed. What should happen, should AFR look after the motor? AFR's part went on, then they had the problem?

Even after DTT told Chad the pressures were way out and that it needed to get fixed as it would have a problem, he still raced it then it failed. He called DTT, they said that they would fix it if he sent his in, and even went as far as to take out there own transmission from there personal truck that would now be down for about 10 days, to help him out. Although it wouldn't get there until one day after the race so it was no good. Remember this was a unit that we didn't even build, but we were still gonna offer free labor to build it. Remember if Chad paid 3-4-$5000 for this unit, less that $1000 was to DTT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan K

As far as Big Dipper saying that we sent the wrong size shim, I don't see how that is possible considering that we didn't send one. Although Mike didn't say we did on here so someone might be putting words in his mouth.







Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Kondolay
We use shims same as everyone else. We have played with pressure regulator springs in our R & D phases but the consistency did not meet our expectations so we do not use them. On the average we run anywhere from 275psi to about 305psi, while we have gone as high as 325psi we dont recommend



This is where it gets confusing.In addition it was said Mike received the whole kit.Kind of weird considering you both are in the same location doing the same thing.

So were there shims or not? If not than how was the DTT target pressure going to be achieved?

I just wonder as some pretty strong accusations were made about a installer who has helped many,voluntarily I will add.I wouldn't want anyone getting the wrong idea if at all possible
END QUOTE


So really this post by Mack needs to be answered by Bill Koonday before this thread can go any further in any meaningful manner.

I will not post anything further here. I will accept all resposability and have told Chad that I will fix his Ally at no charge. There was never any question about that. I stand by everything I have posted on this subject. Bill and Stefan, hope you are happy now. I just don't think this should go any further for the members sake.
mike

At this point I'm not going to continue arguing about what did and didn't happen or what is or isn't the cause of the failure or what we did or didn't get parts wise. Once we KNOW what caused the failure this conversation can proceed the way it needs to.

Looking back I should have taken the truck to DTT. That's obvious. I should have read the writting when they suggested two days prior to my departure that I should come up there for the upgrades. It was a great offer but I had already made my commitments and travel plans.

I'll say it again: I'm not trying to get revenge or hurt DTT's reputation with this thread. I'm getting the short end of this entire mess no matter how you look at it. I'm not blaming anyone.

Kondolay's, what would have to be wrong here for you to take care of this mess on your dime (I'll still pay shipping both ways)? Everyone has failures so let's leave out that you're perfect for a minute. Are you even still open to resolving this or should I not waste my time and money calling you?

I will not post anything further here. I will accept all resposability and have told Chad that I will fix his Ally at no charge. There was never any question about that. I stand by everything I have posted on this subject. Bill and Stefan, hope you are happy now. I just don't think this should go any further for the members sake.
mike


That is very noble of you Mike you are one hell of a guy I mean that very sincerely.Your reputation was never at stake but you knew that anyway.

I would like my question answered because that is a major discrepancy.But if you say it's done it's done.

That goes for Chad also,as I read his comment also.The rest of the guys can pick it up I'll watch.

McRat I have a similar situation that happened to a buddy of ours in the racing industry that is actually very similar to what is happening here,

Our buddy has a motor that is running fine, it goes roughly 8.20 @ 165, but he wants to go in the 7's. So his engine guy tells him get these AFR cylinder heads (I believe that someone from AFR is even a member that is on this thread) and we'll run 7's no problem. So they get them, throw them on the motor bring it to the track, tow it to the line. The thing sounds like s##T, and blows up.

We come over to his pit to see what happened, to find that the idiot builder didn't check piston to valve clearance. Motor is screwed. What should happen, should AFR look after the motor? AFR's part went on, then they had the problem?

Even after DTT told Chad the pressures were way out and that it needed to get fixed as it would have a problem, he still raced it then it failed. He called DTT, they said that they would fix it if he sent his in, and even went as far as to take out there own transmission from there personal truck that would now be down for about 10 days, to help him out. Although it wouldn't get there until one day after the race so it was no good. Remember this was a unit that we didn't even build, but we were still gonna offer free labor to build it. Remember if Chad paid 3-4-$5000 for this unit, less that $1000 was to DTT.

Big difference.

AFR heads are in wide spread use, and are a proven product. When they came out for the GM LS1 V-8 346ci aluminum engine, I bought a set. I was one of the first cars running them, but not "the" first. So off to the races.

I destroyed piston #7. Was it the heads fault? Hmmm... When I notified AFR of the failure, they wanted to see the heads first hand. I sent them the heads and they there was nothing wrong with them, so the freshened them up for me, and I rebuild the engine. Proved to be an injector.

Moral? Even though it was NOT AFR's problem, they wanted to see first BEFORE they would know for sure. At no point did they say, "Not our fault!", they wanted to see with their own eyes. If AFR treated you any different, I'd be surprised. They have a good reputation and seem to work hard to maintain it.

Now, we have a similiar situation. A "new" product. DTT did not install it. Something failed. I would think DTT's first priority would be failure analysis.

Get your priorities in order. This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you tackle it.

I disagree with that prference. I have installed many kits and built many transmissions that I had to modify with very few problems. I have helped many members here do their own Ally mods by talking them through the procedures if they felt uncomfortable doing something for the first time. There should be a quite a few proud members here that did their own work. I am proud of them. There is a place for kits otherwise Suncoast and ATS and Transgo would never make them available to the public. Some kits are more difficult to install than others, but with a little help we get through it just fine.I HAPPEN TO BE ONE OF THOSE PROUD MEMBERS MIKE HAS HELPED TALK THRU A SUNCOAST III INSTALL.

First of all I take offense to anyone questioning MIKE L. or his ability to rebuild a transmission. In fact he is being scapegoated IMHO for whatever the reason.

Chad went to MIKE because of his reputation..........he has just proved he didn't run to the bank with Chad's check as has been stated.....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif by offering to make it right as everyone that knows MIKE would know that no matter what he will........when I ordered my kit I could have bought from Suncoast direct, I didn't because I felt that the person who was helpful before I purchased my kit with answering my questions deserved my business. Once I made my decision I told Mike I would be sending out a check in a few days.........but, the kit arrived before I even sent the check because MIKE wasn't concerned I was going to stiff him..........he wanted to make sure I got my kit in time without waiting for a check to even clear yet alone be sent.

He also made himself available on the weekend of my install and talked me through the rotating assembly and valve body mods on his dime, from the golf coarse as well. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

If anyone has impeccable character and business ethics it is MIKE L.

My gripe is that I know MIKE L. well and had the pleasure to meet him last week in LA..........and for that matter he wouldn't have people driving as far as they do for installs if he wasn't good at what he does. In fact I have never heard from anyone on this board that MIKE did not do everything above and beyond professionalism as an installer.

SO THEN, I would hope that the personal attacks on his character stop...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/Nonono.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/Nonono.gif...they are unwarranted and IMHO a diversion from the real matter........why shim a spring if none is needed, and why tell MIKE what shim to use if none is needed ?????????

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/rant.gif done................http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif
**************************

On to the DTT STAGE II

From reading this web site : http://www.dieseltrans.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=559

I see the kit consists of the following

DTT’s ULTIMATE ALLISON PHASE 2


DTT CUSTOM C1 CLUTCH HOUSING
DTT CUSTOM C1 CLITCH PISTON
DTT’s C1 clutch pack has been strengthened by 38 % over any after market.
With pressure increase you can further strengthen the clutch pack based on pressure settings.

DTT CUSTOM C2 CLUTCH PISTON
DTT’s C2 Clutch pack has been strengthened by 67% over any after market C2 clutch pack. With pressure increase you can further strengthen the clutch pack based on pressure settings.

DTT CUSTOM C3 & C4 CLUTCH PISTONS
The C3 & C4 clutch packs have been strengthened by 25 % over any of the after market C3 & C4 clutch packs.

DTT CUSTOM CNC MACHINED TRANSMISSION CASE
DTT has an exchange program in place to facilitate the machining process of the case to alleviate down time associated with custom machining.
$900 core charge is applicable on transmission case and refundable upon return of acceptable core.

DTT CUSTOM PISTON SEAL KIT


To those of you reading this presentation, we are showing you the DTT custom pieces not available anywhere else in the world. As many of you already have partially modified transmissions including torque converters we have not added the obvious clutches, filter, shift kit etc. to serve as filler and confuse the issue. Pricing to follow

***********************************************

The price stated for the kit is $1700.00............FWIW I would have to spend another- $1300-$1500 for a TC plus clutches, gaskets, etc. and that puts the cost at well over $3600 ..........I can buy a SUNCOAST III for a well over a grand less with a Triple TC or an ATS kit with a TC as well as a Co-Pilot...........both of those transmissions are proven do-it-yourselfers with proven records.


Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif NY

The costs of this transmission upgrade were:

$1500 DTT Parts
$1495 TTS Converter
$1000 Labor
$60 C3 clutch pack
$20 Fluid and filters

$4075 total

I'm without a transmission and I'm not going to blame anyone but myself. It was MY choice to use DTT. It was MY choice to have Mike install the transmission. It was MY choice to race with the transmission. I just want a working transmission so that I can continue having fun and working on making more power. At this point there's no getting around that I'm going to spend additional money to get a working transmission, regardless of the road I take. That's the price I pay for making the above mentioned choices.

I know there are those that think I'm wrong for posting my experiences. I want you to know that I attempted to work it out first. That fell through for reasons that neither party could control unfortunately.

Nuf' said.

I have one more comment for now..............read your own words gentlemen and the truth shall set your free.................:cool:

Fromm DTT themselves..............:D



DTT’s ULTIMATE ALLISON PHASE 2


DTT CUSTOM C1 CLUTCH HOUSING
DTT CUSTOM C1 CLITCH PISTON
DTT’s C1 clutch pack has been strengthened by 38 % over any after market.
With pressure increase you can further strengthen the clutch pack based on pressure settings.

DTT CUSTOM C2 CLUTCH PISTON
DTT’s C2 Clutch pack has been strengthened by 67% over any after market C2 clutch pack. With pressure increase you can further strengthen the clutch pack based on pressure settings.

DTT CUSTOM C3 & C4 CLUTCH PISTONS
The C3 & C4 clutch packs have been strengthened by 25 % over any of the after market C3 & C4 clutch packs.

DTT CUSTOM CNC MACHINED TRANSMISSION CASE
DTT has an exchange program in place to facilitate the machining process of the case to alleviate down time associated with custom machining.
$900 core charge is applicable on transmission case and refundable upon return of acceptable core.

DTT CUSTOM PISTON SEAL KIT


To those of you reading this presentation, we are showing you the DTT custom pieces not available anywhere else in the world. As many of you already have partially modified transmissions including torque converters we have not added the obvious clutches, filter, shift kit etc. to serve as filler and confuse the issue. Pricing to follow
*************************************************

SO THEN,

How then would an installer be directed to increase pressures ????????

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM............................. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
.
.
.
.

Kondolay's, I'd like to clear up a few things so I've got some questions.

I'm fuzy about pressures with your kit. Everyone agrees 500 psi is too much. Why was Mike told to shim the pump? To increase pressure? You indicate earlier that no modifications were sent for adjusting pressure. This is true. But if we need to increase pressure why isn't a shim included with the kit?

You advised Mike to use a 167,000 shim. This is thicker than anything else out there. Why? You're seeing 285-315 pressure up there. What thickness shim are you using? If different, why? With a shim this large it would stand to reason that pressures are higher than anything else out there. 500 psi? I don't know. That's what it looks like.

Why were no valve body modifications recommended/instructed? You guys modify the valve body.

Why were no trim valves/gain valves included? In one of our conversations you indicated you were using them so that you didn't have to use a Transgo kit. We clearly had to use a Transgo kit to make your kit function. You mentioned numerous times that you didn't like Mike's relationship with Transgo and Steve Cole. Is this the reason we didn't receive the modified trim valves? One of your dealers has indicated the need for a full Transgo kit in every one of the Stage One upgrades he's done.

On my way home you (Stefan) called to see how everything went. I told you about the 500 psi line pressure and you didn't like it, but you didn't advise me to turn around immediately. You just said to call you when I got home. So I did. You said the truck needed to come up there. I said I really can't take the time to make another 2000 mile, 3 day round trip right now. Can I take it to one of your "authorized" installers closer to me and you said no. Why? Aren't they trained in handling the Stage 2 stuff yet?

Here's my take on the situation: It's evident we didn't have all the parts needed to make this kit function properly. The reasons for it are beyond my knowledge, only you guys know. This is why this transmission failed.

Mike didn't do a d*mn thing wrong here and I'm not going to let you pin the blame on him. Was the 500 psi cause for the failure? Most likely. So let's ask ourselves why it was that high. I'll be the first to agree that when we read 500 psi on that gauge we should have called you. That was a mistake and looking back I have no idea why that didn't happen.

Mike, once again I can't say how glad I am that I chose you to do this. I don't regret that decision one bit. I appreciate you attempting to take the blame for this for the sake of not arguing but I won't let you take the blame, or at the very least all the blame. The Kondolay's are every bit if not more to blame for this circumstance.

To all of you that have offered me money on and off the forums for this, thank you. I am not financially challenged though nor is this about the money so I'll pay for my mistakes/decisions. Mike will not be giving me anything for free. A product is only as good as the company behind it.

I'm still curious on:

1) What would fail with line pressures of 500 psi.
2) Why DTT did not supply the entire stage 2 kit to Mike L.

All I can say is WOW.
I am not that familiarr with DTT and their products but looking at their site it, there is not much information at all about any of their very own products listed. Even the so called Twin Turbos looks like a pipe dream.
I am also not sure if this Stage II transmission is for sale to he public or if it is a test product for some of you that chose to do so. I only have read a few of the comments on this topic.
If this was for sale to the public than they should step up and take responsibility for their products and or services, if this is a test product than a lesson learned.

Personly it sounds like they are trying to reinvent the wheel here. Two companies have done a great job in making the all ready great Allison transimission even better.

I hope it all works out in the end for those that have had problems. For most a $4000 tranny is nothing to shrug a shoulder at.

By the school of hard knocks we now know why DTT doesn't offer a warranty. Sounds like the DTT "kit" was a kludge at best. After all the DTT chest beating very early on, the reality is very different. Sad indeed.

Is this ever going to be answered??????I'm still curious on:

1) What would fail with line pressures of 500 psi.
2) Why DTT did not supply the entire stage 2 kit to Mike L.

What about this one? :confused:

Have there been any successful kit installs by 2nd party installers for the DTT #2 trans?

How about this one?




Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Stefan K


As far as Big Dipper saying that we sent the wrong size shim, I don't see how that is possible considering that we didn't send one. Although Mike didn't say we did on here so someone might be putting words in his mouth.



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Bill Kondolay

We use shims same as everyone else. We have played with pressure regulator springs in our R & D phases but the consistency did not meet our expectations so we do not use them. On the average we run anywhere from 275psi to about 305psi, while we have gone as high as 325psi we dont recommend

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


This is where it gets confusing.In addition it was said Mike received the whole kit.Kind of weird considering you both are in the same location doing the same thing.

So were there shims or not? If not than how was the DTT target pressure going to be achieved?

I just wonder as some pretty strong accusations were made about a installer who has helped many,voluntarily I will add.I wouldn't want anyone getting the wrong idea if at all possible
<!-- / message -->

I for one would like to see the DTT #2 be a success.

The more options we have for performance transmissions the better.

On our next truck (Kat wants one, but I'm holding out for more info on the 06) we will be in the market for a "full race" trans, and I've been hoping this DTT will prove to be the "Killer" trans that will handle everything you can throw at it.

Let's find out if this trans is something usable for our trucks. Chad is a racer, and getting a working DTT #2 in his truck will allow everyone to see what it's capabilities are.

Pat, as much as I'd like to get my money out of this situation it's not going to happen unless DTT has a change of heart. Their transmission will not be going back into my truck at this point or in the immediate future. Since I am a racer at heart I want something that I can race with. DTT doesn't have it yet. I too hope they get their Allison program together as additional competition has the potential to improve our options. We'll see where they end up in a year.

Well Chad at least you have made a decision . The facts at the end of the day remains the same, the transmission installer released your truck with 500 psi ,we are very sorry that happened to you. Had we known, would have tried to prevent the release as it was in all of our best interest to do that.

Eventhough we did not build the unit, as a company we stepped up to the plate and offered to bring the entire truck here on a trailer from Utah,fix it and have it returned to you on a trailer.

Eventhough we did not build the unit we offered to fix your unit if you sent it here .

Eventhough we did not build your unit we paid to yank our unit out and ship it to you and had to pay to put it back in.

Juice , I am going to tell you this publicly as we did privately, we do not hold you responsible for vouching for Chad. We appreciate your integrity in our dealings with you and we knew you were well intentioned. We have sold these units and will continue to do so,the 5 or so people on here have agendas of their own and already have aftermarket vendors they are using so they do not affect us in the least.

I think the last guy that emailed me said it best, when computers first came out some people did not believe they would be a good idea, cried WOLF ,so to speak . This is not any different, make no mistake about it,you will be seeing these units at the track . We can all reflect then. We are not going to comment on this any further as Chad has closed the chapter on it and that is fine with us.

Once again you refuse to answer any questions posed to you except with some:blahblah: and aluding to others as being deficient. How bout an actual informative post from your camp???

If it wasn't for computers....85% of the people that know who you are now....wouldn't evn know you.

I think you handled this wrong. It sucks that he has to lose money this way and I think your missing the boat. If you are the great company you say you are, nows the time to prove it....publicly.....just like you did for thanking Juice for cheering you.

As far as every post you have here lately talking about people that still call or email you.....ask the guys this, do/did they read about the failures you had? Of course not. Not many of us here care if Juice got his trans for free.....sh1t, if I had the opportunity to get stuff for free, I doubt I'd turn it away....most wouldn't. Fact of the matter is that kind of stuff changes a person from being able to give an unbiased opinion. Stop acting like a kid....call Chad....and tell him to ship the trans back to you....build it the way you want....let's see what the trans really has. Juice has no info for us as far as track, pulls, 1/4.....so let Chad be the one to bring some credible info to this forum.....and don't give us anymore of Quad's....."only 1% of our business comes from the internet". You'd be doing yourself alot more justice not to post anymore as the fingerpointing is useless.......take my advice and call Chad.

If Chad sends his tranny to them will they even be able to build a winner? I am not so sure about that right now.

I would like them to prove themselves as well.

...We have sold these units and will continue to do so,the 5 or so people on here have agendas of their own and already have aftermarket vendors they are using so they do not affect us in the least.

... .

Don't be too sure.

Last year I purchased over $30,000 worth of performance parts and services, and that was just one vehicle, and just race equipment. The real number is probably a lot higher, but I hate to think about.

Not sure what I've spent on the tow vehicle yet. We are upgrading the trans in the near future, and getting another trans for the coming truck.

I've written articles and reviews for various products, often competing products. I get dozens of emails/PM/Phone calls a week asking my opinion on modifications for vehicles. I answer them honestly, as I am not affiliated with ANY aftermarket vendor. I use their parts, and I report what they do. I attend about 20 races a year and other events as well.

I'm not the only one who takes their hobby seriously who is reading this thread. Think of hobbiests like us as a "force multiplier". I've been told by various mfr's that a good write up generates instant sales. I think the reason that is, is because folk trust endusers more than sales brochures.

At this point, after reading DTT responses on their new product, and lack of a demonstratable truck running it, I'm looking at ATS for my upgrade. I won't even experiment with a DTT for a GM because I fear that it won't work.

Prove it works. Until then, you should not advertise it as a complete/tested product. Anything else would be dishonest.

:grd:

Come on McRat go with the DTT. Use only 1 quarter rather than 3. :confused:

Come on McRat go with the DTT. Use only 1 quarter rather than 3. :confused:

I may not be a smart man Jenny, but I do know what BS is.

Seriously, nobody knows why the trans failed at this point. Heck, an unrelated part might have failed. The fact that a company can claim to be able to diagnosis a transmission failure over the phone makes me worry.

My agenda remains the same.

I'm still committed to finding out if the DTT system actually works. And if so how much better than the ATS. ATS seems to be rapidly turning into the industry standard.

My agenda is the reason I asked Mike to purchase one on my behalf, so that we could test it in my truck. I'm the logical choice as I am close to Mike's shop and can afford to have my truck tied up for "testing". Testing is just that "testing".......don't talk about it good or bad until you have thoroughly tested it and can speak from a position of information. Remember others are waiting to part with their hard earned coin based on your recommendations.

And....I'm honestly interested in having the best parts on my truck.

My agenda is the reason I offered to share the incurred costs with Chad after the fact.

DTTs agenda:

My personal belief is that DTT got cold feet on the whole project and felt that Mike L. would somehow diseminate all DTTs knowledge to Transgo, ATS, Suncoast etc. They therefore negelected to send/provide all the parts/information that was needed for a succesful install.
Remember, this is ground breaking technology, totally different direction than anybody else.

Or.....its not ready for sale and needs to be sorted out a little more.

Either option is fine, just be up front about it.

Factor in Chad's time frame for traveling and racing and you have a recipe for complete disaster.

So where does that leave us?

DTT has made offers to fix the trans. Let's get it done. If it's secret squirrel stuff and needs to be done in house then lets get it done in house.

So far we have nothing to back up any of DTTs claims of greatness. Juice doesn't have any dyno numbers or track times to share. 100 or so 4x4 20psi+ launches etc. He has told us that it is a great trans. I believe him, but he is one test case. Until we have more of them out there getting abused over time we really won't know.

Chad and I are willing to provide the abuse is DTT ready for us?

Ultimately, as McRat stated, another player in the trans wars can only help push the envelope for all of us.

End :rant: .

Time to go racing! :D

Lets see 2000 regular active members another 13,000 not to active members of the biggest GM diesel based site and DTT is closing the doors on this?

They could be right in their phone diagnosis but they sure have a lot to lose by not handling this better than they have...

DTT are you listening? I'm in the market right now for a better transmission, but you are quite possibly ruling the DTT out due to improper handling of the matter.

I own my own business.. and if it meant I stood to lose that many customers, my fault or not... I would swallow my pride and then bask in the sunshine when my superior product dominates the market...

Although I haven't posted to this thread I have been lurking and trying to make since of it all. I never replied because I know absolutely nothing about a DTT transmission upgrade so IMHO I'm not qualified to give an opinion. I do however feel that DTT is making a critical mistake by not helping out Chad because with this many aware of their decision it will kill them reputation wise in the GM market for years to come. I'm sure negative reviews from GM members will eventually filter over to the Ford and Dodge forums as well. Even if they feel they're not at fault, helping to make things better for Chad would have not only minimized damage to their company's reputation but it actually would have helped them to establish a positive customer base overall. I really feel their management has allowed pride to come in the way of making the wise decision. Sad!

With that said and trying to switch gears to a more positive environment I feel that we as members of a free GM site can possibly put aside our past differences and come together as a team to help out Chad. We all know he puts in his free time to make better a site that we all benefit greatly from for a unbeatable price of $0. I also feel that even though Mike L has unselfishly offered his time and some of the cost to help Chad that he too does way too much for us members for us to sit back and allow that to happen. I think right now would be the prime opportunity to help out 2 members who has given so much and asked for nothing in return. I think it's time for us to step up to the plate and provide our support with donations to help Chad to better absorb the impact of this unfortunate situation.

or we could go to canada. they said something about "ring" time.:boxing: (http://dieselplace.com/forum/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=41#)

a_bear

I'm in if we decide to do it. Just met Chad a couple of weeks ago, and have been a long time fan of MikeL.

Questions that go unanswered are enough proof for me.

:eek: :eek:


:rolleyes:

Mac, is that related to the trans topic or does it deal with Speed and DTT?


........ I thought Nick wanted no more ....:stirthepo


This message will terminate in 5 minutes..................................

I said I was not going to post on this anymore but I keep hearing that DTT is making bad decisions. What decisions exactly was DTT allowed to make. Since this whole thing started the only decision DTT made was to send the parts to Mike for Trippin’s truck..

These are high performance parts that take practice to put in. This is a custom high performance transmission. It is a serious transmission not a spectator sport.

What exactly is DTT getting flamed for. Maybe you guys can tell me. We have not been allowed to make one decision. Chad had been in the driver’s seat from the word go.

As the parts were intended for exactly what Trippin described it was not DTT’s decision to have them installed in Chad ‘s truck. When DTT found that out, we offered Chad to put them in for nothing, as we knew Mike had not done an install yet and we wanted this thing to get a fair shake.

Chad decided not to come to DTT

Chad decided to go to Mike, we did not say Mike was no good, we said he never did it before we were concerned, these guys were under the gun for time.



As a responsible manufacturer we told Chad NOT TO GO THERE. if your manufacturer tells you not to do something and they will handle it for free do you do it anyway.

The truck gets released with 500 psi that was not DTT’s decision.

As soon as we found out, we offer to have the truck towed from Utah to Canada, fix it and send it back WHICH ONE OF YOU OUT THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN INSULTED WITH THAT.? At this point it would not have been a big deal, we would have fixed it told Mike what we did and that would have been the end of it.

Chad decided the answer was no

DTT again offers, send us your tranny then, we will fix it and send it back.

Chad decided the answer was no

DTT agreed to send their own tranny out for Chad, we had to put off jobs in our shop to get this unit out and ready for shipping. That meant I agreed to drive Neon for 10 days till I got his unit back. How many of you would give up your trucks and drive a PINK NEON ? even for Chad ?

Chad decided it would not be there in time so we paid for putting it back in my truck. .

And for those of you reading we did tell him it had to leave with a ($ 3000 ) core charge.

We still have not gotten back our first core so there is no way we were shipping another one out at no charge. This tranny I was sending him was a live unit from my new truck, we told him at that point the only thing we would take off once we got our unit back was the cost of the clutches, we would refund the entire balance. Just clutches we had to replace , no labor , the balance would be all refunded.

Chad has been in the driver’s seat from day one. Yet we keep hearing this is bad business. .


Chad made all the decisions. ,
Chad chose to tell everyone the truck left with 500 psi and embarrass Mike L, we would not have done that.
Chad chose to not send the truck on the trailer we arranged
Chad chose even though he was warned not to drive the truck, not only to drive it on the street but to drive it to Denver take it to the race track, stack multiple boxes and beat the crap out of it again, then drive it home.
Chad chose to run this truck into the ground at DTT and Mike L’ expense
Chad chose to refuse a transmission that was arranged to leave for him because it was going to get there a day late.
DTT has offered ,offered and offered to help not because they have to , but because they wanted to , and yet you guys don’t seem to get that.
Now an in-expensive fix has turned into a major deal and who made the choice to let that happen.
Chad called the shots all the way .
Chad, you need to grow up buddy, you are entering a world where you love to drag race, that is our life, you are going to need your stuff to live, the oem will not survive what you guys want to do to these trucks. We live and breathe racing, performance is our background and that is how we have designed for this Allison. It is about precision. This entire thing has all been so un necessary.

I would guess that the members here, myself included are wondering what the big deal is.

You have Billet apply pistons, they are set to "X" for a final clearance. The "OTHER" modifications ( Transgo/ATS/Suncoast )according to your web site and posts are not the answer, although they are working in hundreds of trucks at a competitive level all over the US/CANADA.

The masses reading this thread see the same staetments being made over and over by DTT with no members questions being answered by you or Bill.

DID you tell Mike L. to shim the spring.............its a YES or NO answer..........

DID you send all the parts required..........again a simple YES or NO answer.......

If you still won't answer these questions you need to IMHO.

Just the perspective of one of the many members reading.

:cool:
.
.
.

I've got one more question besides the ones that GMC-2002_DMAX as well as others have asked. What difference does it make if it was for Trippin's truck or someone elses truck? Was there something special about that kit I'm missing here? If it's been answered already here please point me to the post. I'm not up for re-reading this whole thread to find the answer I don't remember reading about. Thanks.

Ok.. Here's a stab at the "Left at 500 psi"

FACT:

Main pressure in a stock Allison trans is not to exceed 260 psi @ 2100
A Trim Solenoid has a max trim pressure of 86 psi.

FACT: The control main relief valve pops off at (111-129 psi).

SO ---> How come it didn't bleed off the excess "500 psi" ?

Did you shim the main pressure regulator?


There are only a few ways to get higher main pressure in the 1000 series.

As a resultant of the high line pressure I would say that the clutch apply piston seals woud probably leak by, and you may cause damage to the pump itself in the front support.

Directed at Stefan:

What are these super close tolerances that you speak of in the trans? The only close tolerances that I'm aware of is the selective shim that is placed on the end of the geartrain to give it a predetermined OAL from the factory. Are you reusing the factory selective shim in your kit. Or do you have your own to compensate for some kind of changes in the clutch pack heights?

Seems as if the rest of the trans couldn't really have many variables as far as installed clearances go, right?

To those who haven't had a 1000 series apart, they literally fall apart/ and build themselves. Don't see what could have gone that wrong with the buildup.

To those who haven't had a 1000 series apart, they literally fall apart/ and build themselves. Don't see what could have gone that wrong with the buildup.


True very true,but you have to put ALL the parts back in. :D

True, very true.. :)

I've got one more question besides the ones that GMC-2002_DMAX as well as others have asked. What difference does it make if it was for Trippin's truck or someone elses truck? Was there something special about that kit I'm missing here? If it's been answered already here please point me to the post. I'm not up for re-reading this whole thread to find the answer I don't remember reading about. Thanks.:exactly: No matter who's truck the trans was going into, the same parts were going to be used, the same tolerences and clearances would be used. Going with that logic, wouldn't we now be debating how Trippin would be dealing with this? I still think DTT needs to standardize what other parts they want associated with their proprietary setup, and definitely offer training to installers so those very parts go in correctly. If their setup is that different, proper customer service demands this be done. Not everyone can go to the Upper Northwest for a tranny.....

MikeL's experience as a tranny builder doesn't jibe with the accusations that it "was built wrong". He has too many satisfied customers running built trans for those comments to make sense. If DTT had had any reservations about his abilities why 1) didn't they offer him training? and 2) why send the parts in the first place? If you're saying that MikeL's experience and knowledge is not enough to install these pieces, then maybe you made it way too complicated. My point is, if my local tranny guru can't handle a DTT Allison install, why bother when there are other proven ways to go?

I applaud the fact DTT is willing to rebuild the trans for Chad, and even offered to trailer his truck from Utah. How many days could that have possibly taken? 3? 4? Heck...Chad would've had his truck back by now if all this arguing hadn't started....


Quit stalling guys....get with it!

Tom :eek:

DTT wisely chose (or happened upon) dealing with two of the most respected members of this board. 13,000+ members have been reading sp33d and Mike L's post for a long, long time and thier reputations are undeniable. So if DTT had handled this correctly, who knows maybe we'd have 3 players in the high performance Allison arena, BUT:

DTT for whatever reason did not provide everything necessary for Mike L. to do Chad's install. Why? Who knows, but when you call Chad and Mike L. liars and/or incompetent on this board, where 13,000 Allison owners come to read how to enhance thier engines and tranny's, you've made an judgement error of incalculable porportions. You may or may not know transmissions. But take it from someone that knows marketing and customer service, you have reduced your potential market in the biggest and fastest manner possible.

In business its not often you see a company's' product image completely implode (i.e. Ford/Firestone) because of poor handling of an arguablly solvable problem. My fellow DP members, you're watching one happen right before your eyes.

DTT You can write three page posts all day long saying you'll fly the engineering staff to Colorado, rent a shop and fix Chad's truck at no cost. It doesn't matter anymore, your just trying to buy somebody off because you just realized 98% of your potential market is reading about your incompetence.

Way too little, far too late.

Want to save some money? See if Diesel Power will prorate your supporting vendor dues. Then leave this board and go see if PPE has any ad space left for next year's catalog - you too have a lot in common.

Chad & Mike: I'm truly sorry you both were drug through this nightmare; if there can be any upside - you've saved probaby hundreds of others from making the same mistake.

Doug Lindsey
Supporting Member that supports our members

Stefan, I'm willing to take the blame. No problem. I did make a lot of decisions on this one. Because I am grown up enough to take that blame. The folks at DTT obviously are not. And it's sad really, because you have no idea what's wrong even still.

I still DON'T deny that you guys attempted to help me. If you go back and read the posts I've clearly said that several times. None of that help materialized though for reasons uncontrollable by both parties.

You want to know what the kick in the a$$ is? Had you guys been a company with customer service in mind you would have eaten the couple hundred bucks for the clutch packs knowing that you screwed this thing up. I would have a DTT transmission in my truck even now and things would possibly (I say that because we still don't know if the transmission would function the way we expect it to) be different. Instead you guys immediately started blaming everyone but yourselves without knowing anything about what's really wrong in the transmission.

You guys fail to see the point here. Rather than answering mine and other member's questions about why you CHOSE to make this transmission fail and put me in this situation you're now just trying to blame me for not working with you on getting it up there to get fixed.

Since we have some DTT parts here that I've paid for and see no point in trying to get a refund on I'm willing to throw more money at this transmission. I really didn't want to pursue this but it seems that many members want me to in the pursuit of finding out if at some point this transmission will actually be worth something. As soon as Mike has this nuked one out and a working transmission in my truck yours will be on it's way to you. I will be PAYING for the freight both ways to and from DTT as well as all damages internal to the transmission. Since DTT knows they did nothing wrong I no longer expect them to do anything to help me. Once the transmission is rebuilt it'll be shipped back to Mike for install in Trippin's truck at his earliest convenience so that we can continue the discussion of whether or not DTT has something revolutionary or not. Certainely you won't blame a simple R&R job if it fails..?

P.S. DTT, you will get your missing case with the rest of this transmission.

I hope DTT puts the tranny together to hold up to Trippin Carnival Rides............:D ...His current MIKE L. Special surely is up to the test..........:cool:

We painted LA and Malibu last Wednesday with the BFG's 285's out back on Trippin's Truck...........

Tell them to send a converter as well..............this way it's all DTT for a true comparison.

T:p: NY

I bet they stop posting to this thread:rolleyes: ... probably embarassed:o:

They still have not answered my questions... and I am a potential buyer... go figure...:confused:

I bet they stop posting to this thread:rolleyes: ... probably embarassed:o:

They still have not answered my questions... and I am a potential buyer... go figure...:confused:
They are Racing this weekend more than likely

[QUOTE=sdaver]........Chad your openess is to be applauded and hopefully you will be rewarded with a good product...............[quOTE]

rewarded with a blunt kick in the nuts.............sorry chad...........stefan you guys really F ***ed this up ................good luck in the gm tranny business

UHH..... Answer the questionsI asked would ya ?

Neither transmission builder is talking.

Could it be manufacture A forgot to send the shims and installer B installed his own shims that were TOOOOOOOOOOOOO thick.

The result is end user C leaves with 500 PSI.

Any kit that is not complete with parts and instructions should be labled BETA in bright red ink. I have been down this road before. The end result is alot of names get called, alot of time and money is wasted and alot of enemys are made.

Manufactures should beta test on multiple vehicles before they even open there pie holes one tiny ioda.

Chad I am sorry you drove all the way to Colorado with Idaho turbos and Canadian transmissions only to run a mid 14 in a truck that was totally gutted. You have a damn positive attitude considering all that has transpired!

You must feel like a sodomized guniea pig.

Wow wow wow!!! I haven't been on for the last week cause my comp was on the fritz. I'm no cheerleader but I can tell all of you guys that my DTT Stage 1 works like a dream. I work and race my truck at the dragstrip without any problems. Trannytom(Tom) built my transmission and he can't believe that it's holding with the power that I'm putting through it. The weak spot is my stock convertor. Within a month or so I should have a Stage 2 installed with a DTT convertor. I'll let all of you guys know how that goes. Nick

Mike, By Chance Did Steve Help You Build The Dtt Tranny???????? :)

Mike, By Chance Did Steve Help You Build The Dtt Tranny???????? :)Nut,

I was going to address your cheap shot post, but since you finally learned where the "caps lock" button is......:D

Bronco,

If you sort through all the previous posts you will see where DTT instructed Mike to shim the spring by a given amount. ;)

Also, there was a time when everyone was afraid of the increased line pressure that the ATS trannys had. Now it is pretty much the norm.

How much is too much? 300? 350? 400? 500?

He Didn't Find The Caps Lock. The Admin Disabled It.

Try It. It Forces Cap-only On First Character.

It should be called the Peanut Defense.

Nut,


Bronco,

If you sort through all the previous posts you will see where DTT instructed Mike to shim the spring by a given amount. ;)


Oh yeah I see where Mike crossed out the original amount and changed it to the new .067" measurment.

They guessed wrong! ;)

Pat,

I think that caps thing works only on quick posts.

Trip,

I guess now we've found that 500 PSI is too much. Sucks it had to happen. Maybe we could take up a collection for Chad's new one...a buck a member. That would cover it. Before I get flamed for that idea....its just that, an idea....

Tom

...a buck a member. That would cover it. Before I get flamed for that idea....its just that, an idea....
$16,000?!? Sounds good to me! :D It'll help me finance that Pro Street truck ;)

Seriously, thank you to all who have offered money here and privately but that is not and has never been the issue. I really could care less about the money, it was all principal. I was willing to pay another $1,500 in freight and R&R charges to get a working transmission, plus let them charge me another $3,000 just to send the transmission without knowing what I'd ultimately end up paying in repair costs. Again though, not the problem. Most of you here and privately have grasped why I do have a problem and I can only hope that DTT will also some day.

Don't hold your breath for DTT Chad; move on, you know there are proven alternatives out there.

But don't throw away that DTT tranny before checking with the Smithsonian - I heard they have some room in the "Good Ideas That Never Caught On" section right next to the original CP/M computer. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

That's just funny ):h

Did I just hear something about a DTT converter? I thought they were not going to do any converters for the Allison?

Interesting thread I missed in Bowling Green..

The fastest trucks there were running Suncoast in them, Dodge and GM.

I bet they stop posting to this thread:rolleyes: ... probably embarassed:o:

They still have not answered my questions... and I am a potential buyer... go figure...:confused:
I'm in the same boat PEPPER, looks like there is only 2 performance worthy trannies on the market. DTT needs to change my mind, but hey I'm only a small guy to them.

I'm in the same boat PEPPER, looks like there is only 2 performance worthy trannies on the market. DTT needs to change my mind, but hey I'm only a small guy to them.

I guess there in damage control mode right now...

I'd like a third option when buying, but I guess their not listening to what we want...:confused:

Maybe their busy they haven't logged in, in a couple days. :confuzeld

It was mentioned they went racing.Maybe the will bring back some time slips of their products in action.


Give it time,or not...You decide :D

Did I just hear something about a DTT converter? .
.................................................. .................................................. ......

"Transmission Handles it easily.... Provided it gets built correctly"

Interesting line in your sig Juice? ;)

Did I just hear something about a DTT converter? I thought they were not going to do any converters for the Allison?
<snip>


Shopping? :D

Transmission Handles it easily.... Provided it gets built correctly Juice are you sure you really want to start this? I've stayed out of this publicly but you know d a m well what went on and so do I! If DTT had stepped up to do the job right none of this would have happened. How about them coming to Mike L. to get cores for them, how about them coming to me to get advise on there problems, How about DTT telling Chad they were not going to delivery the necessary parts to complete the job because they were afraid someone would see them. Then when there is trouble they try to shift the blame to Mike L. and make excuses like the transmission was for someone else's truck when they knew for 5 weeks prior to the install what truck it was going in. -:t There's is a lot more going on and if you want it all out in the public keep the smart ass comments coming and I will list the whole mess and let members make there own decisions. I still have all the PM's that were sent to you and them.

COLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DO YOU ACCTUALLY THINK JUICE IS AFRAID OF YOU???? WHAT A DIP**** ):h

Juice are you sure you really want to start this? I've stayed out of this publicly but you know d a m well what went on and so do I! If DTT had stepped up to do the job right none of this would have happened. How about them coming to Mike L. to get cores for them, how about them coming to me to get advise on there problems, How about DTT telling Chad they were not going to delivery the necessary parts to complete the job because they were afraid someone would see them. Then when there is trouble they try to shift the blame to Mike L. and make excuses like the transmission was for someone else's truck when they knew for 5 weeks prior to the install what truck it was going in. -:t There's is a lot more going on and if you want it all out in the public keep the smart ass comments coming and I will list the whole mess and let members make there own decisions. I still have all the PM's that were sent to you and them.
I think someone has opened a serious can or whoop-Censored .... Wonder where this one goes from here. I think that the starting of this thread and the turn it has taken was a :badidea: .... Guess we shall see soon enough..
This thing needs a ref.....:lol:

Good intentions do not go unpunished. :o:


.....sucks

I would like to leave this open so DTT could have the chance to reply if we can keep the mud slinging in control as much as possible.

Otherwise I doubt it will be brought up again.

You guys,Gals decide

...There's is a lot more going on and if you want it all out in the public ... and I will list the whole mess and let members make there own decisions. I still have all the PM's that were sent to you and them.

I've been following this entire thread as a potential customer. I came over from Dodge, where DTT's are rated very high. However, this is where I stand based on the info presented:

1. Don't buy a tranny from DTT
2. Don't buy a tranny or services from Mike L
3. Sp33d is not risk averse and willing to gamble (win or lose); very professional and level headed IMO
4. Not all is being said, and that makes decision making difficult for us still on the fence.

I'm not advocating more mud slinging, but if there is data that is still not on the table, I'd like to see it presented so we members can make our own decisions. One purpose of these forums is to share info and experiences to help others.

you got a few points right IMO ;)

:hail: > :pimp:

. However, this is where I stand based on the info presented:

2. Don't buy a tranny or services from Mike L
.

I think you have that one wrong...

If I lived on the LeftCoast I'd go see MikeL. based on what members experiences are...

but from what I've seen...I Might not buy a DTT from MikeL because they won't ship him the necessary parts to to the complete job...


DTT are you listening yet?

I am a prospective buyer and have friends that drive modded Dmax's as well... referals are a magical thing. I'm watching to see how you handle this...

Sadly, I think some people do not understand that Mike wanted this to succeed for everyone. That is the reason that he told DTT he did not want to install a Transgo kit into their tranny because he wanted it to be totally DTT. I was standing right there, I heard the conversation.

That is also the reason he built it and shimmed it to their tolerances, because who knows better than DTT how their kit should be installed.

He did install the Transgo, but only after it was built and shimmed to the tolerances given to him the day of the build by Bill and it did not work properly.

If this thread is successful at undermining members confidence in Mike and damaging his reputation, then, from what I have read from DTT, they got what they wanted. But I would hope that would not be the case, as the members here seem to me to be smarter than that.

I think that is why you have seen Mike's frustration expressed. One can only be expected to tolerate so much when one's character and reputation are being attacked.

I think enough facts have come forward without answers from DTT that shows that Mike did not get everything he needed to make this work properly.

For those that were not there, I think Mike's participation here and support to his customers has earned him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

I, for one, never doubted him for a minute.

DTT are you listening yet?

I am a prospective buyer and have friends that drive modded Dmax's as well... referals are a magical thing. I'm watching to see how you handle this...[/QUOTE]

Man Pepper I need to stop quoting you. You keep saying everything that I'm thinking. Iwill need a tranny in the near future and would like to know all about DTT as a company,product,and cust service or (lack of). I dunno

I've been following this entire thread as a potential customer. I came over from Dodge, where DTT's are rated very high. However, this is where I stand based on the info presented:

1. Don't buy a tranny from DTT
2. Don't buy a tranny or services from Mike L
3. Sp33d is not risk averse and willing to gamble (win or lose); very professional and level headed IMO
4. Not all is being said, and that makes decision making difficult for us still on the fence.

I'm not advocating more mud slinging, but if there is data that is still not on the table, I'd like to see it presented so we members can make our own decisions. One purpose of these forums is to share info and experiences to help others.

item 1 I would agree with at this time,
item 2 is completely wrong and just what DTT had hoped would be seen as the problem when in fact the whole problem was and is DTT.
item 3 agreed
item 4 you are correct but up till DTT straightens out the mess they created I would not be on the fence about them as a supplier. They have work to do to properly develop a sound package and I hope in the future they do but as of right now they are not event close.

Find someone other than DTT that says Mike doesn't do good work. Probably 1/2 the Dmaxes in the area that show up at competition events are running his work. If he didn't do good work, you'd see alot Dmaxes coming home from the pulls and the drags on a tow truck. It ain't happenin'.

But getting back to the question:

What IS the success ratio on DTT #2 installs?
Did Juice's truck get it right the first shot? Seems it was in the shop a long time from his posts.

What IS the success ratio on DTT #2 installs?
Did Juice's truck get it right the first shot? Seems it was in the shop a long time from his posts.

0/3

Why? Because none of the three worked on the first round. Two of them were test units and the first "production" kit for an unbiased customer's truck just failed. I'm sure I accelerated that failure but it would have failed regardless given the parts we were provided with and instructions for installation. I also don't believe it's even possible to get a Stage 2 at this time from one of their authorized installers. They all have to come directly from DTT. Maybe there's more to that...

2. Don't buy a tranny or services from Mike L

It's unfortunate that you and possibly others have come to this conclusion. Mike did nothing wrong. He did and used everything DTT told him to with the exception of using a Transgo kit. This had to be done or their parts weren't going to work in the first place, and they didn't argue with him when he told them he was going to use it.

Mike has chosen not to get himself involved in this thread because he realizes that above all else the problem just needs fixed and that he could argue until he was blue with DTT and it wouldn't go anywhere. This is a disadvantage to him as he isn't giving himself the opportunity to defend his actions or share his experiences and conversations with DTT that I don't know the full details. I commend him for that and anyone that lays judgement on Mike because of DTT's claims on this thread need only look at the many, many Diesel Place transmissions he's built with his own hands, and many more that he's helped build over the phone.

I'm willing to ship the transmission back up to DTT if they'll commit here, in the public, to fixing it and lay down specifically what I'll be required to pay for. Otherwise, I'm not going to waste additional money on them.

Truck was in the shop for about a month. Trans was done in a couple days, The rest of the time was for the upfit of the Twins. If you go back and read the posts on that subject you will read exactly that.

The exact time frame was 20 working days. Which suited me fine. Why drive 1500 miles, twice in one month and interrupt progress on that front?

My job does not allow the latitude in time off that some enjoy. It took me a while to rearrange my schedule to get back there. It was worth it and I would do it again in a heartbeat.


Steve, post what you will on PM's Gestapo Extortion/Blackmail or whatever teminology you use, most boards would not tolerate the repost of a PM used in that manner.

I've been following this entire thread as a potential customer. I came over from Dodge, where DTT's are rated very high. However, this is where I stand based on the info presented:

1. Don't buy a tranny from DTT
2. Don't buy a tranny or services from Mike L
3. Sp33d is not risk averse and willing to gamble (win or lose); very professional and level headed IMO
4. Not all is being said, and that makes decision making difficult for us still on the fence.

I'm not advocating more mud slinging, but if there is data that is still not on the table, I'd like to see it presented so we members can make our own decisions. One purpose of these forums is to share info and experiences to help others.

I'd like to share some info and experiences.

Mike L's customer service and quality of workmanship are top notch. He has talked many a member here, through a problem or an install/rebuild on a Saturday or Sunday when he didn't even sell them the parts.

His motives here should not even be up for question. He was committed to making the DTT kit work, before sending Chad home.

Truck was in the shop for about a month. Trans was done in a couple days, The rest of the time was for the upfit of the Twins. ...

Was the DTT #2 working correctly after the first install? No word games. Truth.

The goal here is to get a good DTT #2 truck out to the track so we as buyers can make an intelligent choice. If there are some kinks to the install, let's get them ironed out, so we can see what it does.

I'm in the market for a tranny in the near future(6 months give or take) and i wouldn't think twice about having mike do the install but i live on the rightcoast. That would make for one hell of a road trip. Hey tony and Mac you up for a road trip:D .

I'll even volunteer to go first:

I run a Suncoast III with a TTS Converter. It works great up to 466rwhp, but at 550rwhp it is marginal. I'm trying to decide what would be the best choice for supporting 600rwhp.

Is the DTT #2 an option?

Steve, post what you will on PM's Gestapo Extortion/Blackmail or whatever teminology you use, most boards would not tolerate the repost of a PM used in that manner.

Posting what truely went on is none of the above, but making the comments you and DTT have to try and shift the blame is flat wrong! The transmission did not work the way it should when it was setup per DTT's advise and instead of stepping up and trying to help an installer resolve the issue they passed the buck. Now you come here and try to do the same with the smart ass comments just doesn't cut it. I hope someday they will have worked out there problems but for now they haven't got a sellable product.

Juice, there's no question that your truck was having other things done to it while it was at DTT. But you and I both know the transmission wasn't a drop, build, and reinstall. It wasn't meant to be for you... They were still testing. My only point was that at this point there's only been three Stage 2's and two of them were test units that were pulled and rebuilt and modified to figure out how to build this in the first place, so they really don't count. Mine does at it was production parts.

Hopefully at some point someone gets a Stage 2 that works whether DTT builds it or someone else.

Juice, there's no question that your truck was having other things done to it while it was at DTT. But you and I both know the transmission wasn't a drop, build, and reinstall. It wasn't meant to be for you... They were still testing. My only point was that at this point there's only been three Stage 2's and two of them were test units that were pulled and rebuilt and modified to figure out how to build this in the first place, so they really don't count. Mine does at it was production parts.

Hopefully at some point someone gets a Stage 2 that works whether DTT builds it or someone else.

10-4!

As for the second part, that would be cool too!:ro)

Was the DTT #2 working correctly after the first install? No word games. Truth.

The goal here is to get a good DTT #2 truck out to the track so we as buyers can make an intelligent choice. If there are some kinks to the install, let's get them ironed out, so we can see what it does.

Just got in the door.

DTT Stage2 worked correctly when I picked the truck up from DTT to compete at DDP. (Excepting the downshift issue which they have addressed, the trans has not been touched since)

Having said that, I have not changed my Power Levels one iota. From Daily commute to Hot Shotting it has been on Full Power since DDP. And right now, the only thing hating life is the stock convertor we installed into the truck because of a flexplate issue.

If you ever had questions about how the truck shifts, or feels under load at power, without a financial risk, you are more than welcome to come up here, stay at my house, enjoy 16 acres of no neighbors, clean air, and my cuisine.
As a Fail safe there are good restaurants not 17 minutes from my place;)

Failing that, About the closest I do get to Cali is when i am in Washington... but geographically that makes for a long drive for you.:)

hmmmmm...........ramen noodles and beer! Whens the next flight????? :lol:

hmmmmm...........ramen noodles and beer! Whens the next flight????? :lol:

OH....HA
HA
HA.
miserable SOB.... you just had to say that didn't you!):h

What about it McRat? You and Kat like the noodles rare or well done? We could always spring for KD!

I often eat Ramen raw. It's kinda like chips for those on a budget!
I've actually got the kids believing that Ramen is a special delicacy.
When they get older, they're going to get pissed.

I haven't been up North in a couple of years. Got family in Issaquah, WA.

Not sure if I can make it before the new truck comes, and certainly not before we get Big Blue updated. Thanks for the invite though.

Hopefully, we will have a neutral party provide DTT #2 test info before I get the next trans done. Still might go up to pester you later. Canadian beer is better.

I often eat Ramen raw. It's kinda like chips for those on a budget!
I've actually got the kids believing that Ramen is a special delicacy.
When they get older, they're going to get pissed.

I haven't been up North in a couple of years. Got family in Issaquah, WA.

Not sure if I can make it before the new truck comes, and certainly not before we get Big Blue updated. Thanks for the invite though.

Hopefully, we will have a neutral party provide DTT #2 test info before I get the next trans done. Still might go up to pester you later. Canadian beer is better.

McR, Issaquah is near Spokane? That is only 500 miles away from me.... and they have a track there.:grd: HMMM... closer to Seattle.... still, only a 9 hour drive.

Naw, Issaquah is 20mi east of Seattle, Spokane is near "freeze your azz off" Washington. :D

Naw, Issaquah is 20mi east of Seattle, Spokane is near "freeze your azz off" Washington. :D

It isn't Cold up here!
We have 90 Frost Free Days and 275 days of FREE AIRCONDITIONING!):h

Spokane is so cold that the trees fight each other to get dogs to pee on them. :eek:

It isn't Cold up here!
We have 90 Frost Free Days and 275 days of FREE AIRCONDITIONING!):h

4 out of 5 penguins surveyed thought Cranbrook, BC to be wonderfully tropical!!!! They didn't specify what month was considered "tropical", though.

Spokane is so cold that the trees fight each other to get dogs to pee on them. :eek:

OUCH!

But, we do have Absinthe here.... mmmmmmm Sambuca with KICK! Beer with KICK!

Heck, last time i was down south, I looked at the bottle of Bud i was drinking... Censored our MOUTHWASH has more alcohol content in it than that!):h


It was a little cold here in Feb. -44F with a -30 windchill. And yes, as a matter of fact i forgot to plug the truck in!:eek: Censored :eek:

Anyhow (trying to stay on topic)
The offer is Open to you Pat. Give me some notice if/when you get to issaquah.. I have a few friends down there to stay with, failing all else the northwest nationals dyno/drag/sledpull is in september. I'll be there!

after being gone for a month and reading threw all this over the past week, there is a few questions i have
first off

if this is a beta tester tranny(less than 3 out there), why would you leave someone who has never installed an dtt update, do the work for you!!
why the hell chad would you not take the tranny back to dtt or have your vehicle towed when asked to have it fixed properly!! by dtt, it looks like you delebertly were stalling to me,(my mothers birthday) any tester must know they will be ups and downs and work with the supplier to make a great product

we have seen problems before with suncoast and ats trannys as well but joe and ats have come threw mostly and solved the problems,to keep their customers happy, to me this looks like dtt has had no options in fixing a mistake on the installers or their behalf, i would think after a turbo and now tranny upgrade dtt would go out of their way to please you

did mike not test this tranny out after install,!! why was dtt not told about the high pressure, or sent the whole kit and tranny back to them if problems could not be fixed

why was this matter not handled between mike, chad and stevan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and kept there

chad you must know this this makes all three of you look bad in my eyes

stevan> why would you take the chance on giving your (all new)kit to one that is not your installer,(after telling us it was complicated) your seting yourself for what just happened and may cause severe hardship in future sales of maybe a great product!!

and lastly, as you might know mike L (coles side kick)and myself have never seen eye to eye on to many things, which he is not shy to admit in threads following mine. I will give no answer on his tranny and installer knowlege, but state his public relations that i have seen here and other threads would not allow me to have him touch my tranny with a ten foot pole

this is a sh!tty mistake on all three parties and others are watching, we all want whats best for our trucks but going this way to get it is not correct

my 2 cents

McRat........ rember, Juice is wayyyyy up there, all alone.......16 acres. I don't think anyone will hear you scream. ):h

McRat........ rember, Juice is wayyyyy up there, all alone.......16 acres. I don't think anyone will hear you scream. ):h



:beerchug::sheephump:Get_him::naughty::Wedgie::Who a::nutkick::hug::sorrysign

Fred, I appreciate your input and questions. I've answered most of them in previous posts so I'm not going to go over them again. There are two sides to every story and everyone gets to choose one. I'm not going to argue with you on your points but I obviously disagree with your view on the situation.

Nevertheless, I don't see this thread getting any better. I have no idea where or how this transmission will end up at this point. I still hope DTT is willing to resolve this so that I can give their transmission a true, honest, fair test. If they choose to repair it I'll start a new discussion with results. If not, this will be a dead subject and lesson learned as far as I'm concerned.

Those of you considering a DTT trans, call them. I'm sure they'll answer your questions. Those of you looking for transmission upgrades, call or PM Mike L. He knows his sh*t and takes care of his customers.

Wow Thought this thread was locked out.

I was wondering what happened to DTT. Are they still in the allison market. Has anybody else here tried there tranny.

There are more members here running a DTT transmission than one thinks:rolleyes: I won't talk for anyone else but I like mine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though.

...
and lastly, as you might know mike L (coles side kick)and myself have never seen eye to eye on to many things, which he is not shy to admit in threads following mine. I will give no answer on his tranny and installer knowlege, but state his public relations that i have seen here and other threads would not allow me to have him touch my tranny with a ten foot pole...

Mike L does good work, and has been very honest in his dealings with me.

I would be surprised if you could find a customer of his that would say otherwise, as I know about a dozen guys who have dealt with Mike and say the same thing as I do.

I'm not a Inglewood Transmission Cheerleader, I'm just stating facts.

Just like if TTS makes something good, I'm going to tell it like it is, even though TTS and I do not see eye-to-eye.

If you are not a Inglewood Transmission customer, then your opinion of Mike's work is pointless.

I try not to start any heated conversations so I mainly read. A good buddy of mine has a full blown DTT in his cummins and he is pushing alot of power. I've been in the truck with him and power braked through all of the gears into overdrive and then release the brakes while lying down another 100 feet of black marks. The tranny shifts fine everytime. BTW 36" swampers. I need to ride in a truck with all of the different trannys before I buy mine .

Mike L. is as stand-up as they get and as i've said before, he's the only one who works on my trans. i was even down there 2 weeks ago (400mi each way) just to let him put a co-pilot in.

Lucky to only 400 miles from a good installer, I'm at least 625miles from a reputal installer like TrannyTom.

From what I have gathered most people running a DTT are from Canada EH

Well, I am running a DTT Stage2 and so far no issues since the downshift 2-1 was fixed (Feb). As a matter of fact it feels even better now that there is a real Torque Convertor in front of it.

I travel 11 hours to have them do the work, so if it was not reliable or viable i would be screwed as it is my daily driver.... and i live out of town to boot (too far to walk )
And if it did fail, everyone would know about it

Towing is a pretty good indication of transmission performance... with the Twins, I am able to tow at full power so i leave all settings on high. To date there are no issues.

Bill was mighty pissed off at me though... I put on 20K miles since february... and did not drop the trans oil since feb. I guess with the Twins and running full out while towing it tends to accelerate fluid breakdown.

At any rate, At a nice soft launch (5PSI) I got a real sweet 13 second timeslip in full street (heavy no tract aids) trim. And that's pretty nice too.

DTT has my kind of transmission. Quick clean and firm. 3-4 shift barks the tires still, and that might change (the RV set might not like that) Definately feels stock until you put the boots to it..... then it 'tightens' noticeably.

And to date, no failure.

Mike L does good work, and has been very honest in his dealings with me.

I would be surprised if you could find a customer of his that would say otherwise, as I know about a dozen guys who have dealt with Mike and say the same thing as I do.

I'm not a Inglewood Transmission Cheerleader, I'm just stating facts.

Just like if TTS makes something good, I'm going to tell it like it is, even though TTS and I do not see eye-to-eye.

If you are not a Inglewood Transmission customer, then your opinion of Mike's work is pointless. but isn't that how future customers make their informed opinions,because most people aren't going to have too many trannies built in five years,so you always need word of mouth, this forum is just that

DTT stage II by the end of next month for me.

DTT stage II by the end of next month for me.

Congrats!
Who will be installing for you?

Tom?:ro)

Yep, he's gona do the stage II, twins, and westers:ro)