Gone for a while Guys but always come back in time of need.
Here's the deal;
Getting back into airboats & this time we're looking for power from something that dosen't have to turn 8k rpm & tq to the limit with constant probs.
To add unhope they're gettin fussy abt airboat noise here in Fl.
We're looking at the 6.5, the Dmax & least Peestrokes. The Dmax is best match with tq & rpm near the window of our requirements.
Problem, can't run engine as stand alone power w/o a modified pcm. The Allison & a couple other things need tobe turned off.
After looking at the Hypertech charts agn & sense we use them in our trucks they bring the #'s up a little better which is a good thing.
After speaking with them today(no engineer avail on fri) they don't thimk they will want to alter a program for this = One size better fit all.
If we can go Dmax & yes the most costly but more are into circulation now, we'll be on the right track. Sense?
Can anyone that knows really tell us how to handle this?

Thanx, Gben

BTW, Pennensular Marine is selling the 6.5 with over 400hp for $28k=Unbelievable!
That's all.

I've been to Pinusular's shop and talked at lenght the Matt, the owner. I can tell you that 400 hp twin turbo 6.5 is awesome!

They are working on an intercooler setup for the trucks using some trick parts and it will mount in a way so its not down collecting road debris etc like currect setups.

Lots of neat things from them.... I will let you know what they have.

What is an Airboat?:o: :o:
Be gentle........................

What is an Airboat?:o: :o:
Be gentle........................
If your old enough to remember the TV series "Gentle Ben" they traveled the everglades in an Airboat.

If not try this http://www.airboats.com/

Watch "CSI Miami" and you will see the star of the show on one during the intro.

Making the Dmax run without a transmission is no big deal. We have to do that to run them on our engine dyno. So what it boils down to is which version of the motor you looking to run, LB7 or LLY. We have not yet had the LLY on the engine dyno but will later this summer and fix what needs fixing then. Properly setup 400 Hp from a stock Duramax should be no big deal. 500 Hp may take a few extra parts but pretty simple to do. It just a matter of cost as to what you want to get out of it.

Gentle Ben was one of my favorite shows.:)

Gentle Ben was one of my favorites as well. I just learned this year that the kid was Ron Howards (Opie from Mayberry RFD or Richie from Happy Days, or the director of all kinds of movies now) kid brother. I see they both have the same hairline now.

Sorry for getting further off topic; we can return now to the regularly scheduled topic.

I must be too young......................

Hi,

An airboat is sorta like a " HOVER-CRAFT " You know those boats with the propellers on the back of them, that they use up here in the winter time to rescue ski-dooers and such who decide that 1/4 of ice on the lake is enough to ride their sleds on? Those things....

Take care

Will

Thanx Guys,

Allitech,
I did talk with Matt some time ago but need to get back with him agn. Sharp as a tack is all I can say. Their basic 6.5 I thimk he said is around $12k but it can come dressed to order & there may be a way to narrow it a little.
For those of interest goto google mention airboat. They really do some strange things. Just recently when a deputy was killed near the Ocala Forest the Sheriff's dept used theirs to run him down for several miles on the sand roads & trails. He was on a motorcycle.
Our machines will run the mud from where it stops the 4x4's & the snow & ice in the mtns. Coast Guard has several up north from American Airboats at Orange Texas that are very capable on ground snow & ice at more than 100MPH.
Polymer, stainless & kelvar among other products are used on the bottoms.

Dieseltech, in our quest to make this work GM has so far been of no help except in trying to sell us the big six Dmax which is now produced for big trucks & as power unit. We can't use something that heavy for what it does. Cummins 6B's are also a little heavy for this.
The pickup Dmax comes in at abt 850 & is right in line with hundreds of Airboats with the 454's & will be a kindler, gentler swap.
Need to know, with all other sensors in place how will the ECM know how to feed the IP with allison unplugged? When we pulled the plug on our 2500 last week the ECM would not even wake up & allow it to start.

Thanx agn Guys, plan A was worse, much worse.

Gben

And now my handle has escaped the bag.
That's all.

Gbenzx, there has got to be a way to do this, I am sure. Have you looked into other industrial type diesels? It is my understanding that most props are designed for 2800 RPM maximum. There are some folks out there that make aircraft gearboxes that allow lower RPM engines to be used.

Like to see your setup, I want an airboat too! I am in the Gainesville area.

hey if u do put a DMAX on there you could put a TTS tunder on it or Quad tuner and and not have to worry about the tranny limping its self a

Thanx Guys,

Pick,
Good to see folks close around & have you been to southernairboat.com abt the best Airboat site going. Can learn lots from pretty sharp ole timers & pics, pics & pics.

The aircraft engines do not generally run with gearbox sense most don't go hiRPM & weight is always considered. They are usually used with shorter & lighter boats while auto or race car engines come in the heavier craft. Auto engines, mostly GM in 350, 383, 400, 454, 502 & 507's spin upto over 8kRPM depending upon whether it is true nascar or auto build.
Most all use 2-1 or near tq multiplier gearboxes which can dish out over 1klbs tq which equates to 1klbs+ of propeller thrust.
Some use gearboxes also if crank thrust bearing are inadequate to hold the prop push which may or not be the case with the diesel. Our quest is for 1200lbs thrust @ 1200RPM with a box of course matched the ratio the engineers say.
We believe this is not a big task for the 02 or later Dmax engs & will then go like BigBig says except with Hypertech sense thats where our experience is.
Also abt aircraft engines, cost of operating has went thru the roof. Yes they're lite but time components, longevity & mileage of course are putting more auto engs in Airboats.

Anyway have yet another # from the GM Email for monday & we'll see if this is just another salesman or what. Thats all,

Gben

here is my friends airboat,we use 6 cyl. lycoming aircraft engines,mikehttp://img99.echo.cx/img99/4050/dcp04433lj.jpg

also heres a pic of one of the nicest camps in the everglades were we run our boats,mikehttp://img173.echo.cx/img173/2230/dcp04248pz.jpg

Again, a bit off topic, but does anyone have a pic or cross section of the airboat hull? We do not have many up here in MN! What keeps them from tipping over? They look like they would be very top end heavy, especially with a diesel or big block!

Hey firelt,where is the trolling motor on that rig?
Thats got to be the ultimate for skinny water bassin!

Why wouldn't an ECM out of a 6 spd work?

Sammy, a friend used to run a 400 cu in chev in his airboat on the Chippewa river bottoms near Durand, WI. The photo attached is used up in Bayfield, WI to skid over the ice and broken water on Superior to Islands NE of Bayfield.

Hmmm... For power to weight as well as sound considerations, I'd probably take a close look at the gasoline LS1 family group. These are Chevrolet late-model all-aluminum V-8's used in the Corvette and other cars. They are the lightest production NA engines in the >400HP range, have flat torque curves, are fairly cost-effective, standalone engine controls are off-the-shelf, good fuel efficiency, etc.

Any decent dune buggy shop could hook you up with everything except the gear reducer. Drawback being the engine pulls good from 1000-6500 rpm, so you'd need to drop the RPM's.

wonder if diesel tech could tell mfr and any part number from unit he uses to run engines, maybe delphi might be of help. would be hot having all that room to play with different components. can't wait to see you build it. alway thought with torque curve at around 1800 rpm gm would think about putting in generator units light weight quiet at light load, GM needs to get with it or step off.

We use the same ECM as in every truck sold, just use a special program in it. ;)

thanks for info diesel tech, wonder if the big six dmax is same, maybe that ecm could be used or cracked to work back to make work

Thanx Guys,

firelt, thanx for the pics & if that is an 0540 that boat wil fly.

Sammy, no don't have pics but most are flat bottoms & handle ok once one learns how to handle the hi tq with the rudders. But the small boats with heavy power is certainly not recommended for the beginner. Some hi horse engine are mounted lower & use belt drive reduction & some upto 8ft wide at the transum.

NWDmax, Yes you can usually tell who the fisherman are sense most have a troller mtd. If you like the backwoods fishing the Airboat will almost always get you there.

Jeli, thanx for the pic, landing gear no less.I may need you, the guys on the website are not going to believe this.
They did say sometime back that each ecm was vin# specific but sounds like it might work. We'll be finding out asap.

McRat, yes the LS1 engines are getting more popular in Airboats & most all we've seen use 2-1 or better gearboxes. An engine attic on the southernairboat website has taken these things to the limits on his race boats. His handle is waterthunder real name Dave if you'd like to drop over there sometime. Also your signature=Amazing.

Thanx agn Guys, the search continues with emails going to the engine rebuilders to see maybe how they run the Dmax on a test stand? That's all.

Gben

http://motors.search.ebay.com/duramax-engine_W0QQfromZR8QQsamcmZ6000QQsaspiZ2

ebay has a lot of motors compete with pcm.

Thanx Guys,
Ya'll must have been pecking same time I was last nite but the news is not encouraging.

Gm Rep has spoken & believes that the only way todo this is buy the program that comes from Bosch for couple thousand & run it with a laptop or Tech 2 setup.

Just goto the setup menu & turn off what you don't want & set what you do want & bingo your laptop becomes the gas pedal.

Can't you just see me sittin up there at 65mph in the rain with my poor laptop in a ziplok & hit the wrong key at the right time:(

How much is the gas pedal & what it's hooked to? It's gotta be less than $2k! He did tell him the V8 Dmax in a power unit may be produced, may be. May be while I've seen several peestroke power units come across ebay in recent weeks. Just haven't paid much attention to them u no.

Will call Matt @ Penninsular Engine in Mi tomorrow to see what he says abt this. Believe tho that all their engines(6.5's) are mechanical injection which is ok just use more fuel & of course Heavy.

Over at mercedesshop forum they are using used vegitable oil in the diesel engines from the big food processors & places like McDonald. Will must see when the Airboat goes by & Seldom turns to Sybel & says, Is there a McDonalds around here soomwhere? Or better yet how do the merced folks feed all the dogs & cats that follow them home?

Best hush, Nick'll be chgn me for real estate, that's all,

Gben

Jus fer info,

Found another Hitech that just retired from GM last year & thimks that Bosch didn't sell the programs that was mentioned by the Tech yesterday. Said they may have been contracted for special use for limited times but legal & copywrite laws would interfere.
Anyone with Bosch in SC?

He also says that a special use autherization would be required from GM if their ecm is tobe altered. Said he could build a circuit board to handle the inputs from the sensors in maybe 100 or so hours but the ecm program would still need tobe opened which would cause infringment.

He said he would contact all the aftermarket chip & program people like Hypertech & Edge to see if they will modify their program for this. But first thing they'll ask is how many thousand can they sell. If only one is ordered he says look for the cost tobe 5-10k dollars!

He said if one could get the proper authority to alter one of these programs it might only take 2 lines of code but it might need 200 lines.

We learned a lot listening to him for 30-40mins & gave us his # & said he wanted to check something out before he could tell us the last thing he had to say. Said if he didn't call in 10 days for us to call him in Va.

Matt & Pennsular Engines in Mi says all their 6.5's are mechanical. Want more power, turn up the pressure or less power turn it down, with a knob. Even me may be able to figure that out.

Thanx, Gben

Being a airboater myself,I can see why the big torque numbers are appealing to you to maybe try to go with a diesel,but there are so many tried and true engine combinations that are available and that will do anything you want,why bother with a diesel.Besides,for what a complete dmax or ps would cost, you could get a sb chevy with a gearbox or even a 260 hp 0540.Either one of these will run pretty much anywhere you want to go and are reliable.And not have to turn 8000 rpm.

96drag,

Thanx for the input from south Fl.

If one is not going far both auto & aircraft engines may do them for what they want. This is not the case with us & whatever Airboat we settle for must travel in several states. We'll be in places where there is no airport to get avgas & don't know what you think abt a gasoline tank in the back of a diesel pickup with a 32ft trailer hookup but it is at least dangerous if not worse.

If you do Southern Airboat forum clk Why no diesels & many other things I tried to cover just last night. It is difficult when one is trying todo things different in our country sense the people one has to ask the questions are usually trying to sell what they have. Then too you have many that thimk My scheme is always best. We've run into this kind of thing almost daily since we started this quest two months ago.

The Dmax is the lightest of all engines in this power range at 850lbs. We've almost ruled out the Mercedes 225hp/310tq although they go a million miles without a flutter. We still may go the 6.5 marine from Penninsular @ 410hp & 680tq even at 1050lbs. Some of these are running Airboats in the north country already & have a good record. Pwrstokes weigh abt the same.

Sometimes it is almost too bad that I've been different for almost a lifetime in this socialist nation. My way of life isn't for the regimented, educated or the faint of heart.
The answers that we seek are not available under headings like, Everybody Is, Thats just the way it is nor Good Nuff.

Thanx 96, Gben

[QUOTE]
Sometimes it is almost too bad that I've been different for almost a lifetime in this socialist nation. My way of life isn't for the regimented, educated or the faint of heart.
The answers that we seek are not available under headings like, Everybody Is, Thats just the way it is nor Good Nuff.

I applaude your efforts Gbenzx and different is good!
I never figured out what "normal" is/was but I know I'm not.
Good luck on your project I hope you get it worked out so you can use the Duramax engine.:cool2:

Blake

I hope you are successful in your efforts.It would definitly be neat to see a dmax in a airboat.If it will spin a big enough prop you may be able to overcome the weight disadvantage.As I'm sure you are aware of,horsepower to weight ratio is everthing to the performance of a airboat.Especially weight! :grd:

We use the same ECM as in every truck sold, just use a special program in it. ;)
Gbenz,

Why don't you give them a call.

I'm suretheir program to turn off the tranny wouldn't be near as expensive as a tuner. from what I gather he's saying is that they can help you.

Probably wouldn't have to drive via laptop either...

gbenz, in your conversations on phone i wonder if there is a way you could tell the ecm to lock up converter, setup pickups in trans and set it to be locked in 4th gear 1:1 and meet any presure switches, maybe use stub shaft with reluctor and pickups mounted on front end of crankshaft. might be way to get around, without having tranny. dont know if seeing it in gear would keep engine from starting though, just some ideas. i like different, makes people think.

NWDmax,

Thanx Blake from the great state of Wa.
Do you speak to everybody? I make a habit of doing this all the time. Howya doin? It just freaks people out anymore. Some won't return the gesture at which time I'll usually say, Me too. If they say Ok, how r you just say, Just barely. Remarkable that some will say, Great!

Just this am at the quick store A lady stopped, stood there a moment, turned around & said, I can't believe someone is speaking to me in public. But then I could never get away from her. Fun tho.

96drag,
Yeah the power/weight ratio would make it the ideal deal but I've yet to chk out the crank thrust limits or for gear box adaptor.
My clock is too small, need one with 13hrs but best not tell polititions abt it sense they will demand a $10 million study by the lawyers!

Pepper,
Did you hear abt the Viet Vet that spat on J Fonda? Wife Verna was just telling us abt it when we came in last nite. It was at a book signing & what a joy, she finally got paid back.

And thanx abt Diesel Tech, we'll give him a ring. But GM says it cannot be altered, legally but the following;

Keith2500,
Looks like it will take a complete replacement program todo this. Simplest way togo is thru Hypertech, Edge or other like mfr. They can write in & out what is needed & one can have set options like we have on our trucks. Then all we'll need(don't you laugh at me) is the part # for the power pedal! That's all,

Thanx Guys, Gben

gbenz, thought maybe scrounge up to try without spending cost in early post. wonder if that megasquirt fuel injection unit would work, probably still need programing. could possibly modify pedal from wrecked truck. wonder what banks is using i think saw he got unit from bosch, wonder
if you could get any one there to talk. best

Pepper,
Did you hear abt the Viet Vet that spat on J Fonda? Wife Verna was just telling us abt it when we came in last nite. It was at a book signing & what a joy, she finally got paid back.

And thanx abt Diesel Tech, we'll give him a ring. But GM says it cannot be altered, legally but the following;


Yeah... Hanoi Whore...er... um...Jane got her just dessert!

GM says it can't be done eh? I guess that means all the programmers are doing something illegal but can sell them legally? to heck with GM do what you gotta do... and good luck with it...