i have read so much crap on here, i must have read at least 4 different fluids that people are using in their transfer case?

I have a 2003 dmax.......am i supposed to use

dex III

dex VI

295

5 30 w motor oil


please help...i needto change it today

thanks

cheese

Everyone, including me, has their opinion. Some are based on facts, some on conjecture, some on myth.

To be honest, if you've read all the "crap" and still can't make up your mind, then there's no helping you. You'll have to sort it out yourself ...

Man and I thought my reply was going to be bad........

Given your name - use Velveta !

http://www.usafa.af.mil/df/dflib/SL3/food/velveeta.jpg

thanks for the help, EFFERS :finger:

:rolleyes: :D :D :D :rolleyes:

Well I've read it all too........ What I will be using is the same I will have in the tranny..... Mobil Delvac Synthetic ATF......

:rolleyes: :D :D :D :rolleyes:

Well I've read it all too........ What I will be using is the same I will have in the tranny..... Mobil Delvac Synthetic ATF......

Make it easy on yourself! I agree with Jimmy.

i always thought it was ATF too?! I am not sure why motor oil is used in a transfer case.

dnewton, what is your problem? :rolleyes:

If you do alot of higway/haulin' 5-30 is better

dnewton, what is your problem? :rolleyes:

My experience with dnewton is that I'm in 100% agreement with him 50% of the time. This would be one of them.

My answer was going to be "Yes". I wonder which one he chose?

If I came off as glib, then I owe everyone an apology. It was not my intent to insult anyone, especially the OP. Richard Cheese, I am sorry if I offended you.

However ... I'll bet there are hundreds of threads on this very topic in this very sub-forum. Several of them, I've even chimed in on. If any one person has truly read all the "crap" we have to offer, where's is the sense in asking the same question all over yet again? This horse is so dead from the beating it get's weekly that there's only pulp left. Is the OP confused at the choices? Probably so, and I don't blame him because the facts are so greatly overwhelmed by the conjecture. But re-visiting all the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over ... ? All the information needed, both credible and incredible, already exists. Discussing it again isn't going to bring anything new to light. If someone said "I'm too lazy to search and read, make my decision for me" I'd try to educate them on the options and logic behind each one. But the OP said "I've read it all and I'm still confused". Just what can any of us add that would sway his mind? The info is already out there, and he's already read it! It's my suspicion that this thread will turn into yet another "opinion fest" where conjecture and myth will rule supreme. THAT is my problem.

*******************

Now that my rant is over ... since someone asked ....

I choose to run 2 quarts of Mobil 1 ATF synthetic. Compare it to "conventional" ATF ...

The high amount of PAO group IV base gives great all around performance for cold/heat. It doesn't oxidize as quickly. It doesn't evaporate near as quickly. It meets the OEM specs for fluid type and grade. It can extend my OCI in the t-case. What's not to like?

I didn't choose a TES-295 (or clone) for a couple of reasons. 1) They are more expensive. In a tranny, they might be worth it, but in a t-case, they probably don't warrant the extra expense over the synthetic I choose. 2) The performance gain in going from "normal" ATF to "synthetic" ATF is much greater than the gain of going from "synthetic" ATF to "synthetic" TES-295. I get more performance gain on a "bang for the buck" in the former, rather than the latter. 3) The availibity of Mobil 1 ATF is great; nearly any autoparts store has it one the shelf. I don't have to order anything, or visit some dealer. If I already had a TES-295 clone in my tranny, I'd also have it in my t-case for sure. But I haven't gotten to the tranny OCI yet, so I'm not going out of my way to get it for the t-case.

I also understand that NO fluid choice is going to relieve me of the responsibility of checking the level of the fluid in a routine maintenance plan. The synthetic allows me to extend those checks, but it does not eliminate those checks, regardless of fluid type and grade.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

I have run 5-30 synthetic in mine and no problems thus far, even running a 500hp tune from Nick. But, now at 147,000mi. I have a seeping rear seal. Do I think it is due to 5-30, NO! I believe it is due to 147,000mi. and the previous owner sled pulling and drag racing this beast until he lifted the heads and then tossed it at a dealer, then I got the good luck of fixing everything he broke.

You can fill it with either ATF or 5-30, but I would personally recommend synthetic at the least and my personal choice is Amsoil for everything. Hope this helps in your decision.

i have read so much crap on here, i must have read at least 4 different fluids that people are using in their transfer case?

I have a 2003 dmax.......am i supposed to use

dex III dex VI 295 5 30 w motor oil

cheese

It depends!! If you have the manual stick on the floor or the 3 buttons on the dash to put it into 4X4, the manual calls for Dexron III. So if that is you, then use Dexron III, a Dexron III synthetic like Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, or if your wallet is fat with cash, then the TES-295 stuff.

HOWEVER, if you have the 4 buttons on your dash, then you need to use AUTO-TRAK II Fluid (GM Part 12378508. This is a GM product listed here, but may be available thru autoparts stores, I just don't know.

So in summary, manual transfer case which includes the lever on the floor or the 3 button on the dash, use DEXRON III, and the automatic transfer case which is only the 4 buttons on the dash, use AUTO-TRAK II.

I have not seen a Auto Trak in a 3/4 or above, its my understanding that t-case is a 1/2 ton only case. But I dont know everything, but I do tow cars/trucks for a living.

Man and I thought my reply was going to be bad........

Given your name - use Velveta !

http://www.usafa.af.mil/df/dflib/SL3/food/velveeta.jpg

BEHOLD - THE POWER OF CHEEEEESE.............

My manual says "Auto-Trak 2" so that's what I'm using.

I put sythetic 5w30 motor oil in mine. That's what MikeL. recommends per an allison bulletin.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225463

I got alot of responses on this. I have aoutrack II in mine been there for about 30k. No problems.

If I came off as glib, then I owe everyone an apology. It was not my intent to insult anyone, especially the OP. Richard Cheese, I am sorry if I offended you.

However ... I'll bet there are hundreds of threads on this very topic in this very sub-forum. Several of them, I've even chimed in on. If any one person has truly read all the "crap" we have to offer, where's is the sense in asking the same question all over yet again? This horse is so dead from the beating it get's weekly that there's only pulp left. Is the OP confused at the choices? Probably so, and I don't blame him because the facts are so greatly overwhelmed by the conjecture. But re-visiting all the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over ... ? All the information needed, both credible and incredible, already exists. Discussing it again isn't going to bring anything new to light. If someone said "I'm too lazy to search and read, make my decision for me" I'd try to educate them on the options and logic behind each one. But the OP said "I've read it all and I'm still confused". Just what can any of us add that would sway his mind? The info is already out there, and he's already read it! It's my suspicion that this thread will turn into yet another "opinion fest" where conjecture and myth will rule supreme. THAT is my problem.

*******************

Now that my rant is over ... since someone asked ....

I choose to run 2 quarts of Mobil 1 ATF synthetic. Compare it to "conventional" ATF ...

The high amount of PAO group IV base gives great all around performance for cold/heat. It doesn't oxidize as quickly. It doesn't evaporate near as quickly. It meets the OEM specs for fluid type and grade. It can extend my OCI in the t-case. What's not to like?

I didn't choose a TES-295 (or clone) for a couple of reasons. 1) They are more expensive. In a tranny, they might be worth it, but in a t-case, they probably don't warrant the extra expense over the synthetic I choose. 2) The performance gain in going from "normal" ATF to "synthetic" ATF is much greater than the gain of going from "synthetic" ATF to "synthetic" TES-295. I get more performance gain on a "bang for the buck" in the former, rather than the latter. 3) The availibity of Mobil 1 ATF is great; nearly any autoparts store has it one the shelf. I don't have to order anything, or visit some dealer. If I already had a TES-295 clone in my tranny, I'd also have it in my t-case for sure. But I haven't gotten to the tranny OCI yet, so I'm not going out of my way to get it for the t-case.

I also understand that NO fluid choice is going to relieve me of the responsibility of checking the level of the fluid in a routine maintenance plan. The synthetic allows me to extend those checks, but it does not eliminate those checks, regardless of fluid type and grade.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!


No problem dnewton I am also confused from threads and posts I have read on this forum on the same topic. My understanding has always been run ATF in the transfer case, I never heard of run synthetic motor oil.

"I put sythetic 5w30 motor oil in mine. That's what MikeL. recommends per an allison bulletin."


WHAT? Let me understand; you want me to believe that Allison has a written bullentin recommending engine oil as the lubricant for a tranfer case they neither make, sell, or warrant????? OK - now I'm really skeptical. We just reached a new low here.

I'll I can say is: "Prove it" to me!

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198162

"Before everyone starts asking why oil in the tcase, Mike L. was made aware of of a problem they were having w/ the dexron they added in at factory fill. They recommended 5W30 motor oil, 3 quarts total added from the speed sensor hole in the case itself."

from that thread

OK - Thanks Schwin88. You were very kind to reference that thread within a thread. I did find what you were using.

But allow me to now continue my rant. This is the very same posted thread that keeps going around and around and around, and has become the "gospel" according to person XYZPDQ!

FOLKS, THERE IS NO SUBSTANTIAL CREDIBILITY TO THIS REPORT THAT MIKE L POSTED! This is a link to an article that is from Rockland, in a trade magazine! There is no data, no scientific findings, no experiments with control groups. There is NOTHING to show this is factually based.

That article is from a company that was doing some reman work on t-cases, and they made a SWAG attempt to "root cause" a reason for the t-case being out of oil. Rockland gear is a remanufacturer, just like Jasper and others. That doesn't make them bad; they probably do a good job at reman's. But that surely doesn't make them experts in tribology (the science of lubricants), nor are they the OEM builders (which is New Venture), nor the seller/warrantor (which is GM).

HOLY COW! How many times can this rumor surface, and become "fact" by it's mere presence?

ATF is the proper spec'd fluid. PERIOD! If you want to "upgrade", then a good choice would be a "synthetic" ATF, from one of many sources.

Many people use 5w-30 motor oil with good success. That's fine. BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RECOMMENDED, NOR DOES IT PROVE IT'S "BETTER"! It is anecdotal evidence, and nothing more.

This has become exactly what I predicted it would be; yet another thread about a topic that has no factual basis, and is lead by conjecture and opinon. And I also predict that yet another thread will be started on this very same topic before the weekend even gets here, with the very same bogus info regurgitated again.

Case closed.

ok. fair enough. I understand what you're saying but why wouldn't synthetic 5w30 be a good oil for the t case? I don't take everything that comes off this board as gospel but when enough people report doing something and it's working, including a very respected trans builder, it starts to make you think that this might be a good idea.

I am thinking the OP is getting nothing out of this thread as this is anoth one of those highly debated subjects. I have used it with no problems, but like Dnewton says, there is no real proof it works other than the many members that say it is working for them.

To the OP, run what you feel will do the best in your t-case. Beyond that you can take the many opinions on this board and others even and likely come up with what you are going to run. Hopefully you make a good choice and it works for you. As for me, I will continue doing what I am and MikeL has recommended. And remember, he only recommended using 5-30, not that it was the only way to save a t-case.

ok. fair enough. I understand what you're saying but why wouldn't synthetic 5w30 be a good oil for the t case? I don't take everything that comes off this board as gospel but when enough people report doing something and it's working, including a very respected trans builder, it starts to make you think that this might be a good idea.


:jawdrop:
I have read at least 4 times DNewton3 explaining why 10w/30 is NOT a recommended fluid - why he bothers getting thru these thick heads nobody knows.

I have been running red wine in my transfer case for 33K now no problems. Anyone else want to join me?
:drinking:

:jawdrop:
I have read at least 4 times DNewton3 explaining why 10w/30 is NOT a recommended fluid - why he bothers getting thru these thick heads nobody knows.

I have been running red wine in my transfer case for 33K now no problems. Anyone else want to join me?
:drinking:

If this is such a set in stone thing then why hasn't it been made into a sticky yet? That would save us all this time and grief. What did YOU bring to this thread besides a smart ass answer? An opinion was asked and I gave mine with an explanation of why I thought the way I did.

Let's continue to debate, because frankly, I'm on a roll ...

Let's consider some issues. How about warranty, both OEM and lubricant manfucturer. None of the places I've called (Mobil, Shell, Chevron and Amsoil) can recommend, nor advise the use of, any lubricant that does not meet OEM specs. In other words, these companies will not cover your use of motor oil in the t-case, even after the OEM warranty expires, because it is not spec'd for this application. They WILL cover any use of a lubricant that meets the OEM specs.

Let's look at the specific Amsoil warranty regarding techinal info:

DISCLAIMER & TECHNICAL CONCERNS
Specifications contained on this website are based on manufacturers' information and were believed accurate at the time of publication. Our recommendations apply to AMSOIL products only, as we cannot be responsible for products from other manufacturers. Always compare fluids and lubricants that were installed in the vehicle with those replacing them during service. Never install more fluid or lubricant than what is considered adequate according to gradients on dipstick or level of filler hole. Fill and drain locations are for reference only. Failure to perform adequate inspections or obtain proper resolution will limit or negate any liability toward AMSOIL INC. Models introduced midyear may not have the same specifications as those produced earlier.

If you even go so far as to overfill you t-case, regardless if you use motor oil or ATF, they will not cover you. Heck, they even tell you that failure to peform periodic lube inspections will void their warranty.

Let's look at the Mobil warranty:
ExxonMobil Lubricants & Petroleum Specialties Company, a division of Exxon Mobil Corporation ("ExxonMobil") provides this limited warranty to the purchasers who use Mobil brand lubricants in their vehicle.

This limited warranty covers the Mobil 1 lubricant and critical engine parts lubricated by the lubricant.

If there is equipment failure related to the Mobil brand lubricant you purchased, ExxonMobil will repair any equipment damage directly caused by a defect or malfunction of a Mobil lubricant, provided that the lubricant was selected and maintained in accordance with specifications of the original equipment manufacturer or the written instructions (which includes product packaging) of ExxonMobil.

Let's just pull out one particular part here: " ... provided that the lubricant was selected and maintained in accordance with specifications of the original equipment manufacturer ..."

Hmmmmm. Now I don't know about you, but that sounds like legal talk for using the proper fluids spec'd by the OEM.

Guys, who you going to believe?

1) the OEM that made the t-case, backed up by the seller/warrantor of the t-case, backed up by the whole aftermarket lubricant industry

or

2) some guy who wrote an in-house article with no techical data or proof to back up a SWAG?

Don't take my word for it! Call up Amsoil at their tech line. Call up Mobil at their tech support line. Call up your GM dealer. Or, email them. Read the warranties. Ask any of them if they think motor oil is good in the t-case; enough so that they would be willing to warrant a failure based upon the use of a NON-spec'd fluid.

I have no ill-will towards people that do the research, consider the options and make their decision. If they choose to use motor oil, then fine by me. We may not agree, but I can respect their decision because they chose based upon their comfort level.

My heartburn is with all the people that profess motor oil is "recommended by Allison", who doesn't even make the t-case. My problem is with people that blindly pass around tainted information. My concern is for the people that listen to ill-fated advice, and somehow trust the information based on increduluous claims. My desire is to provide factual data, and credible sources.

Please, if you can, prove me wrong, and I will humbly appolgize.

If this is such a set in stone thing then why hasn't it been made into a sticky yet? That would save us all this time and grief. What did YOU bring to this thread besides a smart ass answer? An opinion was asked and I gave mine with an explanation of why I thought the way I did.


:rolleyes: :D :D :D :rolleyes:

Well I've read it all too........ What I will be using is the same I will have in the tranny..... Mobil 1 Delvac Synthetic ATF......


This and several smart ass answers......... Unless I really do run red wine with my cheese...Well they do go together....... :D

This and several smart ass answers......... Unless I really do run red wine with my cheese...Well they do go together....... :D


:drinking:

Mr Newton: Explain to me the loss of oil from the T-case with ABSOLUTELY NO SIGN OF A LEAK OF ANY KIND ANYWHERE ON NEAR AROUND OR NEXT TO THE T-CASE. Fact of the matter is if you tow heavy, or haul heavy for long distances at highway speeds the T-case will create enough heat to vaporize the ATF that has been put in it. This is exactly the same as boiling water in a pot on the stove. Eventually its all gone with no apperent escape route. The reason for engine oil in the T-case is to prevent this vaporization and subsequent loss of ATF. Engine oil has a higher tolerance to heat, and will not vaporize in the case as ATF will. Engine oil is not put in as a "supirior" lubricant, meerly one that will stay put.

Furthermore, it was (i believe) NPG that recomended the switch to engine oil...Hmmmm.

The tranny gets hot to doesn't it? So why put ATF in that and not 10w30?

looks like we need an objective sticky detailing the yrs and what diffy and tranny oils to use,
noobs like me have to read 400 post full of strange conjectures or dreams to find actual facts or objective views.

Mike S: I don't have to explain it; you just did!

But what makes you think that 5w-30 engine oil doesn't evaporate also? You've never had to top off engine oil?

Without exception that I know of, everyone that is using motor oil in the t-case is using "synthetic" motor oil. In fact, they are using mostly PAO based engine oil That's good stuff. But guess what - ATF is also available in PAO based products, and it's darn good stuff too!

The likelyhood of synthetic engine oil outlasting "dino" ATF is probably pretty good. But the likelyhood of synthetic engine oil outlasing synthetic ATF is nil. A fair way to compare the ATF to engine oil is to suggest running dino engine oil and dino ATF. You won't see much if any improvement there. It's very important to compare apples to apples. If you want your t-case fluid to last longer, don't change types of oil, change base stocks in the same product line!

Further, go back to the article that is the ONLY source I know of that makes this "engine oil" suggestion. I have tried to contact the author (M. Weinberg), but he hasn't called back yet. I want to see just what criteria he used to make such a suggestion. Does he have an engineering degree? A chemistry degree? Is he, or did he consult, a tribologist? What viscosity, film strength, NOAK tests, flash point, API specs, ASTM standards were used for his consideration of replacing the developmentally approved fluid, with another? I'll bet a dime to a dollar that it was a SWAG based upon a shade-tree mechanic mentality. And if he's got the proof to back up his claim, I'll publically apologize. But so far I've seen NOTHING to suggest it was the right thing to do. But man alive, did he ever find a group of people to latch onto his suggestion and run with it!

I'll be off the next few days. You guys engine passing on rumors and conjecture. When I get back, I'll let you know if there's any merit to his claims, if he bothers to call me back.

The tranny gets hot to doesn't it? So why put ATF in that and not 10w30?

The transmission has an oil cooler.

Mike S: I don't have to explain it; you just did!

But what makes you think that 5w-30 engine oil doesn't evaporate also? You've never had to top off engine oil?

Without exception that I know of, everyone that is using motor oil in the t-case is using "synthetic" motor oil. In fact, they are using mostly PAO based engine oil That's good stuff. But guess what - ATF is also available in PAO based products, and it's darn good stuff too!

The likelyhood of synthetic engine oil outlasting "dino" ATF is probably pretty good. But the likelyhood of synthetic engine oil outlasing synthetic ATF is nil. A fair way to compare the ATF to engine oil is to suggest running dino engine oil and dino ATF. You won't see much if any improvement there. It's very important to compare apples to apples. If you want your t-case fluid to last longer, don't change types of oil, change base stocks in the same product line!

Further, go back to the article that is the ONLY source I know of that makes this "engine oil" suggestion. I have tried to contact the author (M. Weinberg), but he hasn't called back yet. I want to see just what criteria he used to make such a suggestion. Does he have an engineering degree? A chemistry degree? Is he, or did he consult, a tribologist? What viscosity, film strength, NOAK tests, flash point, API specs, ASTM standards were used for his consideration of replacing the developmentally approved fluid, with another? I'll bet a dime to a dollar that it was a SWAG based upon a shade-tree mechanic mentality. And if he's got the proof to back up his claim, I'll publically apologize. But so far I've seen NOTHING to suggest it was the right thing to do. But man alive, did he ever find a group of people to latch onto his suggestion and run with it!

I'll be off the next few days. You guys engine passing on rumors and conjecture. When I get back, I'll let you know if there's any merit to his claims, if he bothers to call me back.


That's what I was thinking - Synthetic tranny fluid like Mobil 1 would put this baby to rest. Last weekend helped swapped out the kid's Mercon V ATF in his '05 Mazda 3 at 100,000 miles with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF Multi-Vehicle Formula. My garage still smells like his old fluid, what's up with that. Guess it needed changing! Something tells me in 4 more years at 200,000 miles when we go to drain and fill again, the Mobil 1 ATF will be in far better shape and not so stinky.

;)

Just came from the dealer with 2 quarts of trak II which they said is the right stuff per the manual.

Now, I'm a bit concerned as someone a few pages up said the three-button automatic engaged 4X is actually the Dexron III. I see in the owners manual where it says Dex III for manual and trak II for automatic xfer cases.

Can anyone confirm that some of the push button xfer cases are actually considered 'manual' in the owner's manual?

^^^

Our transfer cases are just like the "manual" ones, Just actuated differently. The "autotrac" cases are different, containing some clutches and whatnot for the autotrac functionality.

^^^

Our transfer cases are just like the "manual" ones, Just actuated differently. The "autotrac" cases are different, containing some clutches and whatnot for the autotrac functionality.


Thanks for the info... so, it sounds like, even though I told the dealer what my truck was, they gave me the wrong fluid?

I really just want to put back in whatever came from the factory. If for no other reason just so my extended warranty isn't questioned if anything ever goes wrong... thanks!

You ask why people are confused just look at this thread. I did a search on here before I changed My fluids and was reading for days and still did'nt have answer. The most confusing thing is GM owners manual is not clear what is auto transfer case, which 2500HD and 3500 does not have. So correct fluid is manual trans fluid whatever that is. When I drained mine it looked like ATF so thats what I put in it.

You ask why people are confused just look at this thread. I did a search on here before I changed My fluids and was reading for days and still did'nt have answer. The most confusing thing is GM owners manual is not clear what is auto transfer case, which 2500HD and 3500 does not have. So correct fluid is manual trans fluid whatever that is. When I drained mine it looked like ATF so thats what I put in it.
And you did it right. We all have our opinions and views, its part of what makes the world go round. But, noone can condemn a guy for using 5-30 either. Both ATF and 5-30 are doing the job.

Heck anyone remember what fluid went into the t-case of a 85 K20?

You ask why people are confused just look at this thread. I did a search on here before I changed My fluids and was reading for days and still did'nt have answer. The most confusing thing is GM owners manual is not clear what is auto transfer case, which 2500HD and 3500 does not have. So correct fluid is manual trans fluid whatever that is. When I drained mine it looked like ATF so thats what I put in it.

Good call for anybody confused about what to do there is your answer! :thumb:

Just came from the dealer with 2 quarts of trak II which they said is the right stuff per the manual.

Now, I'm a bit concerned as someone a few pages up said the three-button automatic engaged 4X is actually the Dexron III. I see in the owners manual where it says Dex III for manual and trak II for automatic xfer cases.

Can anyone confirm that some of the push button xfer cases are actually considered 'manual' in the owner's manual?

To answer your question MTOFELL:

On page 2-39 of the 2004 owner's manual, they show a pic of the "Automatic Transfer Case". It has a circular button that reads "AUTO 4WD" on top, then 2hi, 4 hi, and 4 low in a verticle column. They use arrows pointing up and down to correspond to hi and low. Since I have no arrows on this computer, I used hi or low. Four buttons to push.

So if you have the four buttons, you have full time AWD option and you have the Automatic Transfer Case which as the name implies in AWD, will switch in and out of 4WD without any input from you. On pg 2-40 it describes this feature and reads, "Auto 4WD: This setting is ideal for use when road conditions are variable. When driving your vehicle in AUTO 4WD, the front axle is engaged, but the vehicle's power is sent to the rear wheels. When the vehicle senses a loss of traction, the system will automatically engage four-wheel drive."

So if you have the AWD option, (on edit, you have the Automatic Transfer Case), you don't use DEXRON III but TRAK II.

Everyone who has the lever on the floor knows what that is, it is a manual way to engage the 4WD option. They also offered an "Electronic Transfer Case" which does away with the lever on the floor. It has 3 buttons on the dash starting on the top is 2 Hi, then 4 Hi, then 4 Low. If you put it into 4WD high, it is in 4WD until you take it out, unlike the one above which switches back and forth when it senses a loss of traction. So if you have this option, then you use DEXRON III in the transfer case.

I'm not making this up, nor am I getting into whether motor oil is appropriate, I am only stating what GM has in their manual which is (on edit: the Automatic" and the "Electronic" transfer cases, and they are not the same. Automatic uses Trak II, electronic uses DEXRON III.) Yes confusing at best. Hope this helps. If you have a different year, the system works the same way.

You ask why people are confused just look at this thread. The most confusing thing is GM owners manual is not clear what is auto transfer case, which 2500HD and 3500 does not have.

The manual is quite clear if you take the time to look at the pictures since it is apparant you don't read. I also suggest you talk with your GM service manager about which option you have.

The Auto 4WD was available in the 2500HD. I can't speak for the 3500HD because I don't have one, but I suspect it was. Saying that you're confused is ok, but giving out advice that may not be true is not a good thing.

To answer your question MTOFELL:

On page 2-39 of the 2004 owner's manual, they show a pic of the "Automatic Transfer Case". It has a circular button that reads "AUTO 4WD" on top, then 2hi, 4 hi, and 4 low in a verticle column. They use arrows pointing up and down to correspond to hi and low. Since I have no arrows on this computer, I used hi or low. Four buttons to push.

So if you have the four buttons, you have full time AWD option and you have the Automatic Transfer Case which as the name implies in AWD, will switch in and out of 4WD without any input from you. On pg 2-40 it describes this feature and reads, "Auto 4WD: This setting is ideal for use when road conditions are variable. When driving your vehicle in AUTO 4WD, the front axle is engaged, but the vehicle's power is sent to the rear wheels. When the vehicle senses a loss of traction, the system will automatically engage four-wheel drive."

So if you have the AWD option, (on edit, you have the Automatic Transfer Case), you don't use DEXRON III but TRAK II.

Everyone who has the lever on the floor knows what that is, it is a manual way to engage the 4WD option. They also offered an "Electronic Transfer Case" which does away with the lever on the floor. It has 3 buttons on the dash starting on the top is 2 Hi, then 4 Hi, then 4 Low. If you put it into 4WD high, it is in 4WD until you take it out, unlike the one above which switches back and forth when it senses a loss of traction. So if you have this option, then you use DEXRON III in the transfer case.

I'm not making this up, nor am I getting into whether motor oil is appropriate, I am only stating what GM has in their manual which is (on edit: the Automatic" and the "Electronic" transfer cases, and they are not the same. Automatic uses Trak II, electronic uses DEXRON III.) Yes confusing at best. Hope this helps. If you have a different year, the system works the same way.

Thank you much!!!!

That totally clears it up. I was being thrown off my the 'automatic' and 'electronic' terms in the manual. It seems they could have been a bit more clear. I'm also surprised the dealer gave me the wrong stuff without clarifying for sure what I had....

The manual is quite clear if you take the time to look at the pictures since it is apparant you don't read. I also suggest you talk with your GM service manager about which option you have.

The Auto 4WD was available in the 2500HD. I can't speak for the 3500HD because I don't have one, but I suspect it was. Saying that you're confused is ok, but giving out advice that may not be true is not a good thing.
You're right I just taught Myself to read today, so I checked the manual which is for all 2007 Classic model including 1500. I read on this site that 2500& 3500 all came with manual transfercase, mine has 2hi,4hi,& 4lo so I believed them. Sorry

I forgot something, alot of the service managers I've seen know very little about cars & trucks.

http://www.rsgear.com/articles/2007_03.pdf

The ARTICAL THAT STARTED IT ALL. Or one mans opinion

Warranty by the Company which recomends 5W-30: http://www.rsgear.com/

"This warranty is limited to replacing the transfer case or parts thereof, which upon our examination prove to be defective. It does not include breakage of gears, broken cases, damage resulting from abuse, faulty operation of any part or parts not furnished as part of the transfer case, (such as linkage, clutch assemblies, shifters, motor or transmission mounts, worn or defective drive shaft components, pilot bearings, or bushing, etc.), accident or racing. Units will not be covered under warranty if they are run out of lubricant, under filled or overfilled with lubricant, or filled with the incorrect lubricant"

I wonder if you bought a transfer case from them how their Warranty would work.

Do you use ATF, Oil. ? Overfilled by 1 Qt.

http://www.rsgear.com/articles/2007_03.pdf

The ARTICAL THAT STARTED IT ALL. Or one mans opinion


Thats the article I've been looking for to post up in here. How much you wanna bet that s few people will still say its wrong?

The manual is quite clear if you take the time to look at the pictures since it is apparant you don't read. I also suggest you talk with your GM service manager about which option you have.

The Auto 4WD was available in the 2500HD. I can't speak for the 3500HD because I don't have one, but I suspect it was. Saying that you're confused is ok, but giving out advice that may not be true is not a good thing.
I have not seen a Auto Trac t-case in a 2500HD or 3500 to this day, but if I am wrong I will eat crow and admit I am wrong. As I have been informed for several years, the Auto Trac is a 1500, Suburban and Yukon models down to the smaller frames only. But I have been wrong before.

Read your friggin owner's manual!
And if you read all the stuff, you should know that Dex III(h) is what your manual says and TES-295 is the ultimate of the ATF's, so it will be even better. I'd stay away from DEX VI with your magnesium Xfer case.

After all is said and done, it's your truck and it being a 2003 I'm sure its out of any warranty that you could have possibly had, so put whatever the hell you want to in it.

A little follow-up on my plight:

So, after determining here that I, in fact, have a push-button manual transer case (never knew there was such a thing) I called the dealer that sold me the trak II. My first question was if they had ever seen a trak-shift (or whatever it's called) in a Duramax or 2500? Of course, no real answer.

Then they confirmed that I should have got Dex III for my auto/manual push button case. But, it gets better.... they say not to buy Dex III (like the manual says I need). They try to sell my the 'special' Dex III for $12 a quart..... yeah, right!!

I know GM is on the rocks and all but I just can't justify it. I went to NAPA and picked a couple quarts for 2.59 a piece.

I just find it funny that the dealership doesn't even know what equipment the trucks have and what fluid goes in them. And, I'm expected to pay them 10X what it's worth for this????

Yikes.... I'm glad I do my own maintenance.... and, I'm glad you guys are around to help me out.

:eek:

A little follow-up on my plight:

So, after determining here that I, in fact, have a push-button manual transer case (never knew there was such a thing) I called the dealer that sold me the trak II. My first question was if they had ever seen a trak-shift (or whatever it's called) in a Duramax or 2500? Of course, no real answer.

Then they confirmed that I should have got Dex III for my auto/manual push button case. But, it gets better.... they say not to buy Dex III (like the manual says I need). They try to sell my the 'special' Dex III for $12 a quart..... yeah, right!!

I know GM is on the rocks and all but I just can't justify it. I went to NAPA and picked a couple quarts for 2.59 a piece.

I just find it funny that the dealership doesn't even know what equipment the trucks have and what fluid goes in them. And, I'm expected to pay them 10X what it's worth for this????

Yikes.... I'm glad I do my own maintenance.... and, I'm glad you guys are around to help me out.

:eek:Glad we could keep you confused to the end;)

A little follow-up on my plight:

So, after determining here that I, in fact, have a push-button manual transer case (never knew there was such a thing) I called the dealer that sold me the trak II. My first question was if they had ever seen a trak-shift (or whatever it's called) in a Duramax or 2500? Of course, no real answer. :eek:

In 2004, my son and I both bought K2500 trucks. He bought the "Automatic" 4X4, and I bought the "Electronic" 4X4. Since he normally came to my house to do routine maintenance, I usually bought the fluids for both vehicles. That is why I know about the difference because I serviced both in my garage.

OBTW, it makes me wonder whether the transfer case "pump rub" might just be a case where the wrong fluid was put into the transfer case, but then maybe not. Aftaer 108K miles, I am still on my original injectors and when it gets warmer, I will have a look to see if my transfer case is still filled with fluid before going to Mrytle Beach Bike Week.

If you have seen it then I stand corrected, but I have towed many trucks in my six years. More Dmax's than I would like to admit but thats what happens when you tow for a GMC dealer. But so far I have not seen it as the case is supposed to be light duty.

They did put that case in the regular 2500 trucks, but to my understanding not the 2500HD.

If you read the artical it states that our transfer cases have a "gerotor pump" which is a Hydraulic pump. So that being the case why not use Hydraulic Fluid? Which we are suposed to as Dex III or Dex VI and Mobil 1 and Transynd are.

Motor oil is not a hydraulic fluid

I felt bad for hacking this thread so I asked the question in drivetrain. Alleghenyrose,was your sons truck 2500hd with Duramax?

If you read the artical it states that our transfer cases have a "gerotor pump" which is a Hydraulic pump. So that being the case why not use Hydraulic Fluid? Which we are suposed to as Dex III or Dex VI and Mobil 1 and Transynd are.

Motor oil is not a hydraulic fluid
10W motor oil is used in many brands of construction equipment for hydraulics.

I felt bad for hacking this thread so I asked the question in drivetrain. Alleghenyrose,was your sons truck 2500hd with Duramax?

My son's 2004 GMC K2500 was a gasser, not a duramax. I can't remember whether it was an HD or not. He wrecked it and traded it in on a, cough, cough, Honda MiniVan after having a baby girl.

Read your friggin owner's manual!
And if you read all the stuff, you should know that Dex III(h) is what your manual says and TES-295 is the ultimate of the ATF's, so it will be even better. I'd stay away from DEX VI with your magnesium Xfer case.

After all is said and done, it's your truck and it being a 2003 I'm sure its out of any warranty that you could have possibly had, so put whatever the hell you want to in it.

actually, i have the extended warranty, and it goes to 110k, or 8 yrs...which is up this september

I'm back from the long weekend.

No one has contacted me from Rockland; I'll try to get ahold of them again today.

Thanks to Ottomatic for posting up, and beating me to the punch. I was going to post up the RS info after I confirmed/denied the info direct from them via the phone. But you got ahead of me. No matter.

VERY INTERESTING that their warranty is in direct conflict with their own written tech article. Want to guess which one their lawyers would rely on????????

If you read the artical it states that our transfer cases have a "gerotor pump" which is a Hydraulic pump. So that being the case why not use Hydraulic Fluid? Which we are suposed to as Dex III or Dex VI and Mobil 1 and Transynd are.

Motor oil is not a hydraulic fluid


Odd, the hydraulic systems in our John Deere combines have the same type of pump, only MUCH bigger and MUCH higher pressure. Guess what type of oil they call for? 30 Wt. ENGINE oil. Just straight 30 Wt. The type of pump plays no matter.

Engine oil makes a good hydraulic fluid, based upon sopme application. It's very common to see ATF or engine oil in low tech equipment like log splitters and such.

REally depends upon how the OEM designed and developed the system.

alright...this bullshit got waaaaaaay off topic, with little or no helpful advice

you guys better step your game up, because this site is quickly going in the shitter, and there are roughly 58 posts above this one that prove my point
i will leave this up long enough for everyone to see, then request it get deleted

give answers, not your opinion....if you cant answer, then dont

How about next time, look for your answer in your owners manual. Don't come on here and ask a question that many people have many different ideas on and cry about it when some good discussion comes about.

i have read so much crap on here, i must have read at least 4 different fluids that people are using in their transfer case?

I have a 2003 dmax.......am i supposed to use

dex III

dex VI

295

5 30 w motor oil


please help...i needto change it today

thanks

cheese

According to the GM manual, and what came in your transfer case, you're SUPPOSE to use Dexron III ATF.

- Is it the ONLY choice? No.
- Is it the BEST choice? No. Even Synthetic Dex III is better. Some others choices MIGHT be better (and probably are).
- Will ANY of them prevent pin holes? No.

But you're SUPPOSE to use Dexron III ATF (according to your GM owners manual).

richard cheese - let me quote you " ... this bullshit got waaaaaaay off topic, with little or no helpful advice" and " ... give answers, not your opinion....if you cant answer, then dont"

I believe several of us (certainly myself) answered your original question fairly.

If you look back to my first few posts, I already told you that very few people have true facts on this topic. My answers are factually based.

I told you this would end up being full of mythology and opinion; you got a truckload of both.

I told you that the OEM/warrantor specifically states ATF; there is no proof otherwise.

I told you that engine oil is used by many people, but it's based on just one article from just one person that cannot confirm any data or techincal research; no one has shown otherwise. Many people use motor oil with no ill results; that doesn't make it right or wrong, just anecdotal evidence.

I told you it's a personal choice; apparently after reading AND acknowledging that you've reviewed all the materials, you still can't make up your mind.

So, now I'm going to help make up your mind for you, since you can't seem to do it yourself, and also seem to have some indignity in asking for help and then being rude about the results.

Take two small pieces of paper. Write "ATF" on one, "engine oil" on the other. Toss them up into the air until only one of them lands facing up. Use that.

For the rest of you following along, I'll say this ...

I am in the efforts of trying to directly contact the author of the article in Transmission Digest, and see what info I can get from him regarding his statement. I got ahold of his employer (RSG) but he is not in the facility; he is on some assignment and is only checking voice mail occasionally. I will continue my attempts to seek him out.

I have already contacted the OEM of the t-case, and have their information.

I am also in contact with some lubricant tribologists, getting details on the specific properties that would positively/negatively effect this topic and resultant decision.

I am working on a detailed write up for this issue, but I am not going to rush it for the sake of some who can't hold their water, so to speak. When I put forth facts, I want them to be accurate and back them up with credible sources.

I will post up a thread when it's ready; hopefully by the end of the week. Perhaps it can be made into a sticky, if enough people ask for it to be so.

For those of you who enjoy dissent, stirring up crap, regurgitating mythology with no real basis, and pontificating, please step to the cashier on your right and form a line.

For those of you who appreciate factual, unbiased information, stay tuned ...

:agreed:

From a gentleman who was/is a member here and made these T-cases, use ATF period!!!!!!!!

Dig up some old posts if you want but he got caught up in the mob mentality and was lambasted unmercifully until he had no choice but to stop posting and leave the forum???? A guy that made the damn things with his own two hands,trained and educated on T-cases was told to shut the F up because of an article posted with the seal of approval of a respected member here!

I pm'ed him and he set it straight for me.

:boxing: http://smileyshut.com/smileys/new/Food/eating-popcorn-03.gif (http://smileyshut.com)

For the rest of you following along, I'll say this ...

I am in the efforts of trying to directly contact the author of the article in Transmission Digest, and see what info I can get from him regarding his statement. I got ahold of his employer (RSG) but he is not in the facility; he is on some assignment and is only checking voice mail occasionally. I will continue my attempts to seek him out.

I have already contacted the OEM of the t-case, and have their information.

I am also in contact with some lubricant tribologists, getting details on the specific properties that would positively/negatively effect this topic and resultant decision.

I am working on a detailed write up for this issue, but I am not going to rush it for the sake of some who can't hold their water, so to speak. When I put forth facts, I want them to be accurate and back them up with credible sources.

I will post up a thread when it's ready; hopefully by the end of the week. Perhaps it can be made into a sticky, if enough people ask for it to be so.

For those of you who enjoy dissent, stirring up crap, regurgitating mythology with no real basis, and pontificating, please step to the cashier on your right and form a line.

For those of you who appreciate factual, unbiased information, stay tuned ...

I was going to do the exact same thing ...................

but i am lazy, and i don't care about other OPINIONS. I use what the manual and the manufacture recomend. I do have an extended warranty and if the transfer case went I wouldn't have a leg to stand on using anything else but ATF

:agreed: X2!

OK - I have my information nearly all gathered. The only piece missing, (and what I believe is the most important part for a sense of fair play), is the direct information from Weinberg, the author of the infamous article. I have called and left messages with the secretary, left voice mail directly to his phone service, and sent email directly to him. Yet, I have no feedback from him yet. I will wait over the weekend and see if he responds. According to his staff, he is supposed to be checking both voicemail and email. If he were to not respond due to vacation, illness, etc., then I could understand that. But according to the staff at RSG, he's available via technology.

Therefore, if he doesn't reply in a fair amount of time, I'll assume he either: a) considers is un-important to defend his position and therefore is unwilling to do so, or b) cannot defend his position factually, and is therefore unable to do so. Even if he were to respond, and simply say "I don't have time for this now. Please wait." I would be willing to defer the efforts, and give him a fair chance to explain at a later time. But so far, nothing ...

It is not my intention to sucker-punch him. He deserves a fair chance to explain the rationale behind his statement of using engine oil. But at some point, if he won't come to the party, it's fair to say he had his chance, and then judge the statement at face value, without further input.

I have all my research done.

Check the new thread started.


Please with-hold any opinions, and just comment of facts!

Once you decide on your fluid and go to change it.... do youself a favor and get a pump. There's just enough room to make you want to attempt it with a funnel and a flex hose. Don't try it unless you want fluid all over your driveway, arms, shirt and everything else around :)

Once you decide on your fluid and go to change it.... do youself a favor and get a pump. There's just enough room to make you want to attempt it with a funnel and a flex hose. Don't try it unless you want fluid all over your driveway, arms, shirt and everything else around :)

Tru Dat!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hand pump 9.95 from Amsoil great tool to have in the shed!!!