Anybody actually denied a warranty claim because of a tuner or other mods?

Pretty much anyone with a cracked piston has been denied warrany.

Ive seen it for blown engines and toasted tranmissions.

Pretty much anyone with a cracked piston has been denied warrany.

i had a cracked piston in my 04 lb7, bad injectors in this truck, and warranty paid no questions.

i had a cracked piston in my 04 lb7, bad injectors in this truck, and warranty paid no questions.

You are lucky, it is very, very rare. It must have happened early in it's life because now i haven't heard of anyone having warranty pay for it under any circumstances.

A customer w/ a 07.5 LMM and a smoked trans was denied due to a programmer on a 6 month old truck.

Anyway of the dealership being aboe to prove that a tuner was the cause of a bad trans? Just curious.lol
My trans is starting to act up it's limped a couple times.

For an increasing percentage of major warranty repairs, tech support and/or the regional zone office needs to get involved or pre-approve the claim. Once that happens your warranty goes "poof" unless the truck is, and always was, bone stock.

Given the $B's GM is loosing, they will no longer look the other way on expensive warranty claims.

Why are the denied stories, I heard of a guy instead of hey it happened to me's?

how long do we need to keep the dpf so it won't affect the warranty? Is it the only till 36/36 of the 100,000 mile?

how long do we need to keep the dpf so it won't affect the warranty? Is it the only till 36/36 of the 100,000 mile?


I might be wrong but I'd say as long as you have any portion of a factory warranty you'll have to keep the DPF intact since you'll have to have a tuner to delete it which would then void your warranty if you have one...

I might be wrong but I'd say as long as you have any portion of a factory warranty you'll have to keep the DPF intact since you'll have to have a tuner to delete it which would then void your warranty if you have one...


That's what I'm worried of

Why are the denied stories, I heard of a guy instead of hey it happened to me's?

I was denied warranty for a cracked piston. There are hundreds out there that have too.

I make those decisions for a major engine manufacturer every day so I know a little about this subject.

First you must understand that warranties only cover defects in materials and workmanship. They never cover abuse. That being said, a programmer can not cause a defect, it may cause one to show up sooner but it will not cause the actual defect.

According to the Magnuson-Moss warranty act the manufacturer must prove that the failure was caused by abuse or improper maintenance in order to deny the claim. There are ways to do this and all manufacturers know these ways.

***They cannot just deny the claim because you had a programmer installed - They must prove that the programmer caused the failure.***

For more information on the Magnuson-Moss act go here:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus01.shtm

I make those decisions for a major engine manufacturer every day so I know a little about this subject.

First you must understand that warranties only cover defects in materials and workmanship. They never cover abuse. That being said, a programmer can not cause a defect, it may cause one to show up sooner but it will not cause the actual defect.

According to the Magnuson-Moss warranty act the manufacturer must prove that the failure was caused by abuse or improper maintenance in order to deny the claim. There are ways to do this and all manufacturers know these ways.

***They cannot just deny the claim because you had a programmer installed - They must prove that the programmer caused the failure.***

For more information on the Magnuson-Moss act go here:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus01.shtm
But if the do deny warranty it's up to you to fight them on it. That's where the fun begins.

Wouldn't there warranty statement have to expressly state you cannot "add this" or "Use That" or "Bolt on whatever"?

How can they give you a 5yr 100,000 mile warranty and then claim "you broke it, sorry not covered".

Obviously they will not warranty whatever you modified like if you add a program and it breaks the ECM or you add bigger tires and they hit the fenders sure that is not covered but the rest of the truck should still be.

JMHO

Wouldn't there warranty statement have to expressly state you cannot "add this" or "Use That" or "Bolt on whatever"?

How can they give you a 5yr 100,000 mile warranty and then claim "you broke it, sorry not covered".

Obviously they will not warranty whatever you modified like if you add a program and it breaks the ECM or you add bigger tires and they hit the fenders sure that is not covered but the rest of the truck should still be.

JMHO

True, but pretty much anything drivetrain related will be denied if they detect a tuner.

***They cannot just deny the claim because you had a programmer installed - They must prove that the programmer caused the failure.***


It's easier to just deny the claim and then make you (the customer) fight them on it. They have big lawyers and it's very difficult to prevail. They can drag it out forever.

***They cannot just deny the claim because you had a programmer installed - They must prove that the programmer caused the failure.***

For more information on the Magnuson-Moss act go here:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus01.shtm

Too bad you didn't actually read or understand the act!!

MM is grossly misunderstood and often misquoted. MM generally disallows "tie in sales". Tie in sales would force you to buy a product or service from a specific company to get warranty benefits. (example: GM cannot deny your warranty claim if they find you have a Purolator oil filter installed by Jiffy Lube vs. an AC Delco oil filter installed by a GM dealer. In this type of scenario GM would need to prove the Purolator oil filter caused the failure.)

However MM goes on to say "your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product". This is the key gotcha clause!! GM is fully within their legal rights to say a tuner is inappropriate for the design parameters of your vehicle and it's use voids powertrain related warranty coverage. GM doesn't have to prove a thing in the case of an "inappropriate" modification!! (example: as long as a tuner is or was used in the past they do not have to prove it caused the problem.) All they have to say is that it was an inappropriate modification. The burden of proof then shifts to the owner of the vehicle to fight it out with GM and this is usually a very long and expensive battle with low probability of success.

Too bad you didn't actually read or understand the act!!

MM is grossly misunderstood and often misquoted. MM generally disallows "tie in sales". Tie in sales would force you to buy a product or service from a specific company to get warranty benefits. (example: GM cannot deny your warranty claim if they find you have a Purolator oil filter installed by Jiffy Lube vs. an AC Delco oil filter installed by a GM dealer. In this type of scenario GM would need to prove the Purolator oil filter caused the failure.)

However MM goes on to say "your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product". This is the key gotcha clause!! GM is fully within their legal rights to say a tuner is inappropriate for the design parameters of your vehicle and it's use voids powertrain related warranty coverage. GM doesn't have to prove a thing in the case of an "inappropriate" modification!! (example: as long as a tuner is or was used in the past they do not have to prove it caused the problem.) All they have to say is that it was an inappropriate modification. The burden of proof then shifts to the owner of the vehicle to fight it out with GM and this usually a loosing battle.


Bottom line is GM will *** you if at all possible.

..........GM is fully within their legal rights to say a tuner is inappropriate for the design parameters of your vehicle and it's use voids powertrain related warranty coverage. ........


Ya think ? :p:

Bottom line is GM will *** you if at all possible.


Or it's the owners of modified vehicles trying to "***" GM.

Look at it this way. GM spends mega bucks designing a powertrain system that has to reliably deliver a certain power level over a broad set of operating condition and over a 5 yr/100k warranty period. They also have to do this by providing adequate design margin which provides a reasonably/predictable failure rate that's inline with their warranty budget.

Now along comes a tuner that significantly alters those design parameters by increasing output and decreasing GM's design margin. All of a sudden the entire cost model is thrown out of whack due to warranty coverage on a design that's outside the operating envelope that GM's design intended.

Why should they absorb this added cost??

P.S. I also have a custom tune in my Sierra but I'm assuming the risk of future warranty denial.

I make those decisions for a major engine manufacturer every day so I know a little about this subject.

First you must understand that warranties only cover defects in materials and workmanship. They never cover abuse. That being said, a programmer can not cause a defect, it may cause one to show up sooner but it will not cause the actual defect.

According to the Magnuson-Moss warranty act the manufacturer must prove that the failure was caused by abuse or improper maintenance in order to deny the claim. There are ways to do this and all manufacturers know these ways.

***They cannot just deny the claim because you had a programmer installed - They must prove that the programmer caused the failure.***

For more information on the Magnuson-Moss act go here:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus01.shtm

Go read the "Blown Engine" thread in the LLY section on here. Speedpro blew his stock engine and was denied warranty for a replacement. He's fighting back. (Nail their ass Speedpro.)

So If I add a tuner on my truck just to re-calibrate the larger or different tire size with no power upgrades my warranty is void.

Maybe we should all just go sled pull the shit out of our stock trucks and break several tranny's, diff's, and more to prove a point to GM. Hell it's really our money that they are pissing away! :mad:

The larger tires alone can void the warranty.......... And many run larger tires at least.....

If you add a tuner and have a drivetrain or motor issue you can just about assure yourself they are going to turn you away. Now if the window switch goes out then you will be okay.

If this is to much risk for you....leave it stock.

My statement about warranty issues has been on my site for several years now and I've copied it below. I'm not one to condone destroying a truck with too much power then restoring to stock for warranty. I'm more about choosing your mods smartly BUT having the ability to return to stock if an issue does pop up. I've heard of guys with LB7 and simple Hypertech tuner losing pistons and being denied warranty. Realistically, it's quite a stretch that such a lame tuner could do so, but the simple admission that it had been used cost him the warranty. I've also been in contact with both owner and technician in a case where programming history tripped up warranty on a DPF plugging issue. This is quite likely solely the tuner's fault and partly the owners for running too much fueling, but it CAN and WILL happen unless you take steps to allow easy removal of your mods. Form there it is up to the owner to use good judgement and take responsibility for warranty issues likely caused by his mods.

The earlier post where the gentleman has a slipping trans and Bully Dog Extreme is a classic example of owner induced failure that should be owner's responsibility to correct.


From my site:
Warranty Issues:
Most modifications shown here should not cause warranty concerns but remember: "Out of sight = Out of mind!" Any of the modules/programs listed her can be removed and there is really no way of detecting their use by the dealer. Now as for warranty issues, YES the dealer can refuse warranty due to the use of ANY module. There is the Magnusson-Moss warranty act that says the dealer/mfr must prove that the aftermarket device caused the failure directly, BUT the long and short of it is this: THEY hold all the cards, and in most cases, what they say goes. It all depends how much time/money you have to throw into a court case IF the need should arise! Again, "Out of site = Out of mind..." Try to keep on the good side of your dealer, and HOPE he/she is open minded! Please note: 2007.5 LMM ECM's have a lookup table that GM can check see if a tune has ever been installed. This is also a likely possibility for 2006+ LLY and LBZ as they use the same controller. For this reason, I strongly recommend that you never tune your factory ECM. Always tune on a core unit from Salvage. Most of my Kennedy Custom Tuning is done on core ECM's for warranty preservation.

Switching PCM's will show a lack of regen's every 400 miles……..

GM will know something's wrong in river city……..

Making switching PCM's to try and defraud GM after you break your rig with a power-up device…… not so fruitful…….

I agree with above and they can also tell if above normal torque has been applied to the tranny, so "tuners" that don't flash the ECM but work downstream from them cal also be deected if they look hard enough. It's really a personal decision.

Again, we're not trying to hide catastrophic failures here. If the vehicle comes in and there is a question, the first thing that will be checked is the programming history. If that checks bad, it's often game over. If that checks OK then there's really no reason to check further. The mods that I apply are safe enough to not cause problems, but any mods added are generally viewed as the root of all evil hence the out of sight= out of mind position.

Plain and simple:

If you're going to play, you got to pay. Period. End of discussion!!!

Load a program and fry the engine, don't come crying that it was denied. Programmer and a broken seat back, now that's another story.

My statement was that factory warranties only cover defects in materials & workmanship -"they never cover abuse".

- Tunners can not cause a "defect" but they can cause "Abuse" therefore if no defect is found, they can deny the claim for abuse.

Broken parts always tell the story, you just need to know how to read them. I have had a great deal of training in how to do that and I have a couple of metalurgists in the lab right next door to me that can confirm anything I can't decide for myself. This is the advantage that big companies have over the small guy, they can always prove their case.

I know that they have many lawyers but there comes a point where it cost more for the lawyer than the claim cost so they do sometimes pay even when it is not their fault (Although they count on the adverage person dropping it due to the up front cost).

A customer w/ a 07.5 LMM and a smoked trans was denied due to a programmer on a 6 month old truck.
He should be denied:)

I make those decisions for a major engine manufacturer every day so I know a little about this subject.

First you must understand that warranties only cover defects in materials and workmanship. They never cover abuse. That being said, a programmer can not cause a defect, it may cause one to show up sooner but it will not cause the actual defect.

According to the Magnuson-Moss warranty act the manufacturer must prove that the failure was caused by abuse or improper maintenance in order to deny the claim. There are ways to do this and all manufacturers know these ways.

***They cannot just deny the claim because you had a programmer installed - They must prove that the programmer caused the failure.***

For more information on the Magnuson-Moss act go here:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus01.shtm
And that is easily done:eek:And programmers do cause breakage;)

My statement was that factory warranties only cover defects in materials & workmanship -"they never cover abuse".

- Tunners can not cause a "defect" but they can cause "Abuse" therefore if no defect is found, they can deny the claim for abuse.
:wtf:??????????????????
Broken parts always tell the story, you just need to know how to read them. I have had a great deal of training in how to do that and I have a couple of metalurgists in the lab right next door to me that can confirm anything I can't decide for myself. This is the advantage that big companies have over the small guy, they can always prove their case.

I know that they have many lawyers but there comes a point where it cost more for the lawyer than the claim cost so they do sometimes pay even when it is not their fault (Although they count on the adverage person dropping it due to the up front cost).
1

From my site:
Warranty Issues:
There is the Magnusson-Moss warranty act that says the dealer/mfr must prove that the aftermarket device caused the failure directly.

You better re-read the MM act and correct your webiste. A warranty can be denied if an aftermarket device is not appropriate for the vehicle.

A manufacturer does not have the burden to prove the aftermarket device directly caused the failure. Past or present use of an aftermarket device "inappropriate for the vehicle" is enough to shift the burden to the vehicle's owner.

Too bad you didn't actually read or understand the act!!

MM is grossly misunderstood and often misquoted. MM generally disallows "tie in sales". Tie in sales would force you to buy a product or service from a specific company to get warranty benefits. (example: GM cannot deny your warranty claim if they find you have a Purolator oil filter installed by Jiffy Lube vs. an AC Delco oil filter installed by a GM dealer. In this type of scenario GM would need to prove the Purolator oil filter caused the failure.)

However MM goes on to say "your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product". This is the key gotcha clause!! GM is fully within their legal rights to say a tuner is inappropriate for the design parameters of your vehicle and it's use voids powertrain related warranty coverage. GM doesn't have to prove a thing in the case of an "inappropriate" modification!! (example: as long as a tuner is or was used in the past they do not have to prove it caused the problem.) All they have to say is that it was an inappropriate modification. The burden of proof then shifts to the owner of the vehicle to fight it out with GM and this is usually a very long and expensive battle with low probability of success.
This is by far the best explanation of how the MM act really works and how it is misunderstood by every wild-eyed hot tune running GM owner that thinks GM has to "prove" their specific tuner caused their tranny to fail. GM has a whole dept of engineers and technicians that will testify all day long that the vehicle was designed for "x" and when you add a tuner that it is no longer "x" and anything other than "x" is "inappropriate" use of their manufactured product. SLAM!!!!! Case closed and you are out court costs, atty fees, and the cost of the repairs.

As stated above, with GM going down the tubes, they will be even more hard ass on this topic from now until eternity, or until the board up the doors (which may be soon). If you run a tuner of any kind, be prepared to pay for any drivetrain repairs necessary. You may sneak something by a dealer or two out there, but don't act like GM is f'ing you when you are expected to pay. I hate warranty claim whiners. Unless GM is denying a claim like your stereo doesn't work cause you ran a tune, shut up and pay the fiddler. If it has anything to do with powertrain, suspension, exh, etc and you have a tuner, pay up and shut up.

I am not sure what GM's policy is concerning warranty claims but at the company I work for, if we can't prove abuse, improper maintenance or poor workmanship by the dealer, we pay the claim. We can't afford to loose a case if it goes to court because if we do, our dealers will challenge every claim that we deny. If we deny a claim after the dealer has made the repair, they then have to try to get the customer to pay for it (Unless it was due to workmanship on the dealer's part) which ties up their money and this is very hard to do once the customer has gotten their vehicle back.
Dealers talk to each other so we can not loose even once or they will all be taking us to court over denials therefore we always give the dealer/customer the benefit of doubt. If we don't have a solid case for denial, we pay the claim. Therefore anytime it goes to court we generally win.
Since were dealing with commercial vehicles, we rely heavily on repeat business & multiple vehicle sales so we may be a little more lenient with our customers than GM is?

Found this in someone's garage - sums up this thread......


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/garageimage.php?do=full&p=20177&d=1164154725

You better re-read the MM act and correct your webiste. A warranty can be denied if an aftermarket device is not appropriate for the vehicle.

A manufacturer does not have the burden to prove the aftermarket device directly caused the failure. Past or present use of an aftermarket device "inappropriate for the vehicle" is enough to shift the burden to the vehicle's owner.


If you read my entire paragraph it goes on to suggest that a person NOT try to hide behind MM...

Can u tune an LMM ECM to regen? Sorry for off topic

I am not sure what GM's policy is concerning warranty claims but at the company I work for, if we can't prove abuse, improper maintenance or poor workmanship by the dealer, we pay the claim. We can't afford to loose a case if it goes to court because if we do, our dealers will challenge every claim that we deny. If we deny a claim after the dealer has made the repair, they then have to try to get the customer to pay for it (Unless it was due to workmanship on the dealer's part) which ties up their money and this is very hard to do once the customer has gotten their vehicle back.
Dealers talk to each other so we can not loose even once or they will all be taking us to court over denials therefore we always give the dealer/customer the benefit of doubt. If we don't have a solid case for denial, we pay the claim. Therefore anytime it goes to court we generally win.
Since were dealing with commercial vehicles, we rely heavily on repeat business & multiple vehicle sales so we may be a little more lenient with our customers than GM is?

It sounds like you're doing the right thing for your business!! However I doubt too many commercial customer are into extensive performance mods.

However diesel truck engines in non commercial applications threw the industry a curve ball. You can make gobs of additional power with simple firmware changes and everyone was(is) doing it. That changed the whole warranty equation.

That's why the manufacturers can't afford to look the other way. Especially in these economic times.

The larger tires alone can void the warranty.......... And many run larger tires at least.....

Ya, abuddy of mine had his tranny go bad, and because of bigger tires, no warranty, reason.....mileage fraud, the tires caused the actual milage on the truck, due to bigger circumfrence to be wrong, warranty denied

Said this before and will say it again. The MM act is there to protect us from GM forcing "GM approved " parts and services down our throats. Simple as that.

MM is not there to penalize GM for owners "abusing" their vehicles. Whether we see tuners as abusive or not is ir-relevant. GM and the law says they are because they have modified a term of the warranty. Simple as that again!

You play, you pay and what is worst is that the burden of proof shifts back to you once you go out of bounds.

Something also occured to me when I considered modding my truck. From '05 to '06 I gained 60 HP and roughly the same torque number in the change from LLY to LBZ and did it with keeping my warranty intact. That was good enough for me considering the consequences of warranty denial and I always wondered why is wasn't good enough for many others who depend on their truck as a "tool".

Said this before and will say it again. The MM act is there to protect us from GM forcing "GM approved " parts and services down our throats. Simple as that.

MM is not there to penalize GM for owners "abusing" their vehicles. Whether we see tuners as abusive or not is ir-relevant. GM and the law says they are because they have modified a term of the warranty. Simple as that again!

You play, you pay and what is worst is that the burden of proof shifts back to you once you go out of bounds.

Something also occured to me when I considered modding my truck. From '05 to '06 I gained 60 HP and roughly the same torque number in the change from LLY to LBZ and did it with keeping my warranty intact. That was good enough for me considering the consequences of warranty denial and I always wondered why is wasn't good enough for many others who depend on their truck as a "tool".

No, it's not "As simple as that". If I put an Edge Insight or similar on my truck or even add an EGT Gauge, something GM should have done in the first place, then by just having the pyro is "evidence" to GM that the truck has been modded and, in their opinion, reason enough to void the warranty claim. The burden is then shifted to me to prove otherwise. Sorry, but I thought this was America and I was innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around. I agree that GM should not foot the bill for someone who adds 100 HP and kills their stock tranny; that's not right. However, this has turned into a witch hunt and that's not right either.

If you modified the terms of the warranty you have no claim. I'm not into witch hunts at all and GM no doubt will pay for this in good time but the warranty is actually a legal contract and neither side can uni-laterally modify it and still have it in force.

Again, warranty never covers abuse and tuners can't cause a defect.

The key here is to define what is "abuse" and what is a "defect".

If your engine fails due to fatigue ("abuse") caused by your mods GM is not responsible but if it fails from a casting flaw ("defect"), GM is responsable reguardless of if you have a tuner installed or not!

If your pistons melt down from extreme temps caused by your tuner, your S.O.L. but if they break because of casting sand in the mold, GM is responsible.

Like I said, GM can not flat refuse to warranty your engine just because you install mods - they have to prove the mods caused the failure and that it is not a defect.

Again, warranty never covers abuse and tuners can't cause a defect.

The key here is to define what is "abuse" and what is a "defect".

If your engine fails due to fatigue ("abuse") caused by your mods GM is not responsible but if it fails from a casting flaw ("defect"), GM is responsable reguardless of if you have a tuner installed or not!

If your pistons melt down from extreme temps caused by your tuner, your S.O.L. but if they break because of casting sand in the mold, GM is responsible.

Like I said, GM can not flat refuse to warranty your engine just because you install mods - they have to prove the mods caused the failure and that it is not a defect.

Incorrect, read below:

However MM goes on to say "your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product". This is the key gotcha clause!! GM is fully within their legal rights to say a tuner is inappropriate for the design parameters of your vehicle and it's use voids powertrain related warranty coverage. GM doesn't have to prove a thing in the case of an "inappropriate" modification!! (example: as long as a tuner is or was used in the past they do not have to prove it caused the problem.) All they have to say is that it was an inappropriate modification. The burden of proof then shifts to the owner of the vehicle to fight it out with GM and this is usually a very long and expensive battle with low probability of success

Moved to Warranty Issues & Recalls...

Again, warranty never covers abuse and tuners can't cause a defect.

The key here is to define what is "abuse" and what is a "defect".

If your engine fails due to fatigue ("abuse") caused by your mods GM is not responsible but if it fails from a casting flaw ("defect"), GM is responsable reguardless of if you have a tuner installed or not!

If your pistons melt down from extreme temps caused by your tuner, your S.O.L. but if they break because of casting sand in the mold, GM is responsible.

Like I said, GM can not flat refuse to warranty your engine just because you install mods - they have to prove the mods caused the failure and that it is not a defect.

You're not paying attention. GM absolutely is not honoring claims based soley upon the mechanics report that a tuner is present or simply evidence that a tuner was previously installed. You can say they can't all you want, but they are doing it anyway.

Like I said, GM can not flat refuse to warranty your engine just because you install mods - they have to prove the mods caused the failure and that it is not a defect.

You're simply wrong.

If the modification is, (or was), present, GM doesn't have to prove a thing. An inappropriate mod. is all they need show and any further legal proof will need to come from the vehicle's owner. GM doesn't need to prove that an "inappropriate mod" actually caused a subsequent failure.

Let's make it simple. Let's say the vehicle comes with a piston with major casting defect. If GM sees a Purolator oil filter installed by Jiffy Lube and if they want to deny the warranty claim then they need to prove the filter caused the failure.

However if GM sees evidence of a tune, (ie inappropriate mod), was installed at some point then they can deny the claim by stating that the mod was inappropriate for the design of the powertrain. Now the owner needs to prove that the piston was cracked due to manufacturing and not as a result of the tune. (almost impossible)

Like I said, GM can not flat refuse to warranty your engine just because you install mods - they have to prove the mods caused the failure and that it is not a defect.

You're simply wrong.

If the modification is, (or was), present, GM doesn't have to prove a thing. An inappropriate mod. is all they need show and any further legal proof will need to come from the vehicle's owner. GM doesn't need to prove that an "inappropriate mod" actually caused a subsequent failure.

Let's make it simple. Let's say the vehicle comes with a piston with major casting defect. If GM sees a Purolator oil filter installed by Jiffy Lube and if they want to deny the warranty claim then they need to prove the filter caused the failure.

However if GM sees evidence of a tune, (ie inappropriate mod), was installed at some point then they can deny the claim by stating that the mod was inappropriate for the design of the powertrain. Now the owner needs to prove that the piston was cracked due to manufacturing and not as a result of the tune. (almost impossible)

If your piston has a big chunk of casting sand where there is supposed to be aluminum, it is a defect, the tuner did not cause this defect and GM is liable for it. You are correct that it will be up to the customer to prove it however.

Let me re-phrase my statement from they can't to they can't legally deny it based solely upon the use of the tuner.

If you break a crankshaft and there are impurities in the metal, you will need to know how much impurities are allowed per design spec. This is of course not information that GM will willingly provide so you will have to subpoena it.

If the level of impurities in the metal is within the design limits, GM has every right to deny this claim but if it has higher levels of impurities, this is a defective part and they "should" pay for it.

Of course they will fight it and most likely drag it out so long that most people will just give up. That's how big companies work the system.

MM does not exempt them from product "defects" solely based on the use of a tuner. Again, tuners cannot cause a "Defect" but they do cause "abuse" and abuse is never covered by warranty.

If you are using something in a manner in which it was not intended to be used, that is abuse and this is why GM denies the claims, they are claiming that the failure was a result of abuse rather than a defect.

Guys I tried to keep it simple and I swear you should follow it. If you change the terms of the warranty which in effect is what a tuner does then you loose the warranty. It is honestly just that simple.

Here is another example. Most after market warranties define a "breakdown" and "Wear and tear". With those terms for the most part your vehicle has to breakdown other wise they call it "Wear and tear" and they don't cover it. Read contracts carefully!

my dealer is starting to give me grief about my lift. i asked how they can say anything when they lift brand new trucks and sell them. they really didnt have a comment after that.

Why are the denied stories, I heard of a guy instead of hey it happened to me's?

Not sure but I've been directly involved in the process,,, not because I wanted to be or asked for it either.

[quote=Kennedy Please note: 2007.5 LMM ECM's have a lookup table that GM can check see if a tune has ever been installed. This is also a likely possibility for 2006+ LLY and LBZ as they use the same controller.]

Can they also tell how many times an ECM has been reprogramed on a 2003 GMC lb7

Thanks

Leave It Stock And You Wont Have Warranties Denied!!!!!!!!!

That What He Gets (leave Stock)

Yeah But Who Has The Time & Money To Fight Gm And There Lawyers

Are You Serious Jimmy Sounds Like Gm Is Trying To Save Money Any Which Way They Can ,so I Guess Your Truck And My Truck Is Out Of Warranty L.o.l

Are You Kidding,so What If I Am Towing 16,000 Lbs With Stock Wheels And Tires And No Tune But The Tranny Goes South Will That Be Denied Although The Trucks Are Designed To Tow Heavy Loads???????????:think: So How In The Hell Gm Is Going To Deny A Claim For Larger Tires Sounds Fishy

^^^ You need to talk to Speedpro, his truck was bone stock over a year ago...the engine blew and they are still fighting him to this day over a year. It's been inspected numerous times and they finally admitted an error... however he's STILL being denied any kind of compensation. So he's on his way to court.

HEY EVERYBODY I HAVE A ? THIS IS WHAT I HAVE ON MY TRUCK IN YOUR OPINON IS MY TRUCK OUT OF WARRANTY?
1. 5% WINDOW TINT ON ALL WINDOWS INCLUDING WINDSHIELD:D:D
2. MUDFLAPS FRONT & REAR
3. BOOST & EGT GAUGE
4. 7 inch STACKS BEHIND DPF HAD UGLY STOCK BAZOOKA TUBE OUT BACK
5. STOCK TUNE
6. 22.5 ALCOLA WHEELS 255/70/22.5 TIRES HAD UGLY STOCK 17inch WHEELS WITH HUBCAPS
7. STOCK INTAKE
8 .WINDOW VENT VISORS
9. TOOL BOX
10. PRODIGY BRAKE BRAKE CONTROLLER STUPID GM TECH THROUGHT THAT WAS AN ONBOARD TUNER AND TRIED TO DENY MY WARRANTY CLAIM :snipersmi:smashfrea (RETARDED GM TECH)
11. STEERING WHEEL KNOB
12. PVC RE ROUT
13. REMOVED RESONATOR

AM I BORDER LINE OR WHAT BECAUSE THE TRUCK WAS A PLAIN JANE WHEN I BROUGHT IT?????

Please stop typing in caps, and the way GM has been acting, they very well could tell you to take a long walk on a short dock.

No, I don't think you are outof warranty, but they could certainly giveyou trouble about the tires/wheels and gauges. I hope you don't drive at night! :eek:

Please stop typing in caps, and the way GM has been acting, they very well could tell you to take a long walk on a short dock.Thats how i write to but that is B/S GM to tell me to take a hike a PLANE JANE TRUCK IS UGLY

No, I don't think you are outof warranty, but they could certainly giveyou trouble about the tires/wheels and gauges. I hope you don't drive at night! :eek:To be honest with you i did go for warranty like tranny line leak , had no issues, they really like the truck with the items i have on it, i guess it depends on dealer????:)

To be honest with you i did go for warranty like tranny line leak , had no issues, they really like the truck with the items i have on it, i guess it depends on dealer????:)

It's what it always comes down to. If you have a good delaer you are golden! Where do you go?

It's what it always comes down to. If you have a good delaer you are golden! Where do you go? I use to go to Mcullucks GMC in suitland MD but the I.R.S. shut them down now i go to JACK WINEGARDNER CHEVORLET in FT WASHINGTON MD.:):)

That's wierd :think:what if a brought a truck that has an idiot light for oil & water but with no gauge idiot lights dont tell me s!@t but i install aftermarket gauges to give accurate readings that would considered out of warranty WOW that SUCKS :cussing:seem like the dealers will find anything small to deny a claim and save GM money

i have a #7 injector going out that needs to be replaced. If i put my truck back to stock, really just putting my exhaust back on, will GM cover it under warranty?

i have a #7 injector going out that needs to be replaced. If i put my truck back to stock, really just putting my exhaust back on, will GM cover it under warranty?

No one here can answer that, but if it were me I'd sure give it a try.

It's what it always comes down to. If you have a good delaer you are golden! Where do you go?
Not always the case anymore. i always look the other way but when transmissions get nuked in fairly new trucks,, people higher up the food chain now must get involved to get a new one here.

Ya, abuddy of mine had his tranny go bad, and because of bigger tires, no warranty, reason.....mileage fraud, the tires caused the actual milage on the truck, due to bigger circumfrence to be wrong, warranty deniedHow in the hell running a larger tire make the tranny go bad??:think::think:I have been running larger tires for years on all my trucks not one issue, look like to me towing 20,000 lbs would put more strain on a tranny than larger tires, i know a larger tire will change the over all gear ratio & mph will be off but that is beside the point.

First of all Leathal Weapon. Your truck looks awesome.

Here's my dilemna. You can see my mod's in my signature. With the PPE, can I flash my ECM back to stock and have it undetected that I ever had it? Also, what if I don't put my cat back on. Is that a big no-no at the dealership? Obviously illegal if I admitted to driving on public roads, but you know what I mean. Will they deny my leaking transfer case rear seal? I have 40,000 so maybe it is too late for me anyway? I'm not trying to screw GM, my transfer case was leaking at the rear-seal when I put on my exhaust, but I didn't feel like stopping my install and waiting several more weeks. My programmer hasn't been on very long either. What are my options?

Heres my dilemna. You can see my mod's in my signature. With the PPE, can I flash my ECM back to stock and have it undetected that I ever had it? NO. They can detect the last 10 flashes. Also, what if I don't put my cat back on. Is that a big no-no at the dealership? Obviously illegal if I admitted to driving on public roads, but you know what I mean. Will they deny my leaking transfer case rear seal? I have 40,000 so maybe it is too late for me anyway? I'm not trying to screw GM, my transfer case was leaking at the rear-seal when I put on my exhaust, but I didn't feel like stopping my install and waiting several more weeks. My programmer hasn't been on very long either. What are my options? I think since you are over your 3/36 you may be out of luck, but the drivetrain warranty may be longer. I don't see how the exhaust upgrade could effect the transfer case, but they could make the argument that evidence of any performance mods made more power that hut the drive train etc... It is certainly worth a shot....

Yes we can see if you've flashed your ecm and w/ the 07 you should have a 5yr/100k warranty on that t-case.

Please stop typing in caps, and the way GM has been acting, they very well could tell you to take a long walk on a short dock.
A long walk on a short dock..... YEAH RIGHT:D:D

Can you imagine working at 1 of the big 3 dealers and having hemi cudas, 454 chevelles and boss mustangs in this modern time?? Monday mornings would be wild...the cars being brought in would still have the shoe polish from the drag strip on the windows and the customers would be wanting new clutches, bald rear tires replaced, broken 4 speeds fixed, blown engines replaced...you wanna play...you gotta pay! It is not any manufacturers fault you as the owner while within your tights decided to play.