Some people might agree,some wont.
I got 20 mls of gravel road to hardtop, lots of sludge on a rainy day and when spring thaw is going on. I did not want to put the FSD in or under the bumper as there is always mud and gravel piling up everywhere, I also have a couple of runoff creeks to cross on my land

here's pic's of my FSD/cooler location. Allways getting cooled in the intake airstream when engine is running, and always clean and dry.I do not think heat rise after shutdown is gonna be a issue in this location, but i will collect temp data as soon as i get the truck on the road.

1) cutout
2) deflector to force air along cooling fins bolted to original cooler mounting holes.the entire kennedy cooler is entirely inside the fender.
3) finnished installation. I used the cutout portion of the fender crosswise to the cooler and overlapping the fender top and bottom beside the FSD and screwed it to the cooler as well as to the fender[ sorry, forgot to take pic of this.]
4) other closeup of #3.

Opinions please

Very interesting setup Bison. I'd love to see your temperature data once the truck's on the road.

Almost looks like it should be there haha

Very clean! Nice work. If I didn't already buy 7 years of warranty, I would copy that. I am eager to see the temps data!

Good deal, but (IMHO) I would not use the deflector, you'll have plenty
of cooling while moving without it, but it will hold in heat when you stop.
But I could be wrong, let us know how it goes :)

Good deal, but (IMHO) I would not use the deflector, you'll have plenty
of cooling while moving without it, but it will hold in heat when you stop.
But I could be wrong, let us know how it goes :)

This was also my first thought. The cover over the fins might hinder the heat dissipation. Looks like a good location. I am still looking for a better place to locate mine, as of now it is bolted to the underside of the front bumper. My concern is water getting into the module.

my only concern is, did you repaint the cut metal? rust spotting :eek:

Good deal, but (IMHO) I would not use the deflector, you'll have plenty
of cooling while moving without it, but it will hold in heat when you stop.
But I could be wrong, let us know how it goes :)IMO the deflector is not going to soak heat at all,as 90% of it is away from the heatsink. and airflow continues as long as the engine runs.

my only concern is, did you repaint the cut metal? rust spotting :eek:that'll be the least of my worries.

Not a bad idea I like it it look like a factory job
keep us up to date with that
I dont think you need the deflector my 2cent

Looks factory, I want to see how this works.

I vote it works great.

Why are you against the "Heath location"?

i think hes afraid of water and rock damage?

Why are you against the "Heath location"?i aint against heath location. I just think mine is a better location for reasons stated before,quiker to change too.No need to remove cooler first like when in or under bumper.I like, easy does it;)

Buttt, time will tell!!

i aint against heath location. I just think mine is a better location for reasons stated before,quiker to change too.No need to remove cooler first like when in or under bumper.I like, easy does it;)

Buttt, time will tell!!

Its your truck Bison, I just appreciate your experimenting and sharing for our benefit. Somebody had to remote mount it for the first time, I wonder if anyone else had the cajones to buck a hole in their fender:eek:

Thanx for some R&D, and please post up the operating temps when you get a chance!:cool:

MAMZE you FREAKING genius
i just thought of a great idea
i'll tell all of you later.... :D

MAMZE you FREAKING genius
i just thought of a great idea
i'll tell all of you later.... :D

Its about dang time I got the recognition I rightly DESERVE around here!!!:rolleyes::D

Why are you against the "Heath location"?
And some of us have a hanging ATA intercooler and cannot have the Heath's system where they originally placed it. If I do buy Heath's I still don't know where I would put it...

And some of us have a hanging ATA intercooler and cannot have the Heath's system where they originally placed it. If I do buy Heath's I still don't know where I would put it...
Hangin off a bungee between the new stacks!!:p:

Its about dang time I got the recognition I rightly DESERVE around here!!!:rolleyes::DWell i be damned, i do the thinking,cutting up my fender and playing guinea pig, and you got the credit:confused::rippedhan:thankyou2:nutkick:

Well i be damned, i do the thinking,cutting up my fender and playing guinea pig, and you got the credit:confused::rippedhan:thankyou2:nutkick:

Don't worry, you'll always be #1 of the "I relocated my PMD to the hole I hacked in my fender" club

I like where you put it, and you did do a great job. Might have to copy your idea :p:

MAMZE you FREAKING genius
i just thought of a great idea
i'll tell all of you later.... :D

And I best be hearin this great damn idea first! :p:

Don't worry, you'll always be #1 of the "I relocated my PMD to the hole I hacked in my fender" club

I like where you put it, and you did do a great job. Might have to copy your idea :p:Was just :stirthepoa little;)

Well i be damned, i do the thinking,cutting up my fender and playing guinea pig, and you got the credit:confused::rippedhan:thankyou2:nutkick:
genius is a lonely place... I am glad you are here to keep me company!!:beerchug::bow:

Back in the 70's Yamaha and Suzuki had 2 stroke street bikes with a cover over their head fins. Yamaha called it Ram Air on their RD 350's. My brother had one, It would take any 750 4 stroke in it's day. Leo

Well, i went on my engine break in drive today, other than an injector nut leak[ a tweek with the wrench solved that] all went well and the mill purr's nicely.
I took some temp readings as i promissed on the in fender heatsink.
outside temp 0 celsius, after 1/2 hr run the FSD was 23.2 c and the heatsink ran 19.5c. When idling for 5 min the temp stayed the same. After shut down the heatrise topped at 27.1 c before cooling down. underhood temps ran as high as 42 c. Close to the FSD location it was only 27.3.

Compared to the intake location on my Wife's truck,Where the Cooler and FSD run 5 degree's cooler at the same outside temp, but the heatrise is significantly higher after shutdown + 14 degrees.
You fellows on farenheith will have to convert above #

We'll have to wait for summer temps to see how it stacks up.
It would be nice to compare temps with the bumper location if any one cares to provide them.

On an other note, as i had bought this truck with a fried engine and no batts.i could not verefy if the electrics where all working, turns out that the doorlocks have a mind of their own. when i drove the truck inside after the drive,and closed the truck door, the doors decided to auto lock on me [key inside ofcourse :o::mad:]Censored WTF is up with that!

Cruise dont work either? and how in hell do i get rid of the beeeeeeep as the critter wines constantly as long as the key is in the ignition,also when driving[drove me bananas]It did not do that the first couple of times when i fired it up.

That number is similar to my finding when I measured last year in the summer. It was not a very scientific measurement. Not exactly the same but similar on the deltas.

The bumper will be closer to ambient. So if your ambient is 0, then bumper will not be significantly higher than 0. Regardless of scale. Since the bumper is outside and not inside the same compartment as the engine. The compartment is enclosed and makes it harder for heat to get out unless you open the hood.

to get rid of this bipping thing, take out the big rectangular relay placed on the socket close to the brake pedal.

That number is similar to my finding when I measured last year in the summer. It was not a very scientific measurement. Not exactly the same but similar on the deltas.

The bumper will be closer to ambient. So if your ambient is 0, then bumper will not be significantly higher than 0. Regardless of scale. Since the bumper is outside and not inside the same compartment aengine.s the The compartment is enclosed and makes it harder for heat to get out unless you open the hood.I suspected that it stays the coolest in the bumper, but how about when idling,when there is no airflow?

but anyway, if my FSD temp stays under 40 c in high summer i'll be happy.

to get rid of this bipping thing, take out the big rectangular relay placed on the socket close to the brake pedal.thanks. i need to get other key made to get back in the stupid truck:)

I suspected that it stays the coolest in the bumper, but how about when idling,when there is no airflow?

but anyway, if my FSD temp stays under 40 c in high summer i'll be happy.

Airflow is not as important if it is not cooked up in a higher ambient, it tends to be more open than the hood. Remember, the PMD itself is also generating heat. The key is the ambient needs to be cooler than the heat generated by PMD so the heatsink can shed the heat. Simple heat transfer principle. If the ambient is higher, the heatsink will absorb the ambient temp and transfer it to the PMD. So the instead of cooling off, it will increase it.

Summer will be hotter. In TX summer, the inside of compartment was close to 225F, after shutdown, it goes up as high as 250F.

My PMD/FSD heatsink is about ambient after shutdown which is cooler than the PMD.

Airflow is not as important if it is not cooked up in a higher ambient, it tends to be more open than the hood. Remember, the PMD itself is also generating heat. The key is the ambient needs to be cooler than the heat generated by PMD so the heatsink can shed the heat. Simple heat transfer principle. If the ambient is higher, the heatsink will absorb the ambient temp and transfer it to the PMD. So the instead of cooling off, it will increase it.

Summer will be hotter. In TX summer, the inside of compartment was close to 225F, after shutdown, it goes up as high as 250F.

My PMD/FSD heatsink is about ambient after shutdown which is cooler than the PMD.I do think airflow is important for removing heat. compare it to blowing across a spoon full of hot soup to let it cool down faster than letting the heat disipate on its own.

So how hot does your PMD gets with vehicle at idle, was my question.

The only reason blowing across the spoon helps to cool it is because you're replacing the 'heat-saturated' air with fresh, cooler air.

If the air that's blowing across was the same temp as the air right above the hot surface, it would make zero difference. None. Nada.

Cooling is caused by heat flowing from hot areas to cooler areas - the second law of thermodynamics (entropy - stuff flows downhill). If the substrate (air) is the same temp as the heat sink, then there will be no 'downhill' gradient for the heat to follow, and therefore no change in enthalpy (heat content)

That's why putting a heatsink under the hood is not smart... even if the air IS slightly cooler than the heat sink, it is much closer to the temp than the ambient air would be, slowing down the flow of heat, and baking the PMD.

The only reason blowing across the spoon helps to cool it is because you're replacing the 'heat-saturated' air with fresh, cooler air.

If the air that's blowing across was the same temp as the air right above the hot surface, it would make zero difference. None. Nada.

Cooling is caused by heat flowing from hot areas to cooler areas - the second law of thermodynamics (entropy - stuff flows downhill). If the substrate (air) is the same temp as the heat sink, then there will be no 'downhill' gradient for the heat to follow, and therefore no change in enthalpy (heat content)

That's why putting a heatsink under the hood is not smart... even if the air IS slightly cooler than the heat sink, it is much closer to the temp than the ambient air would be, slowing down the flow of heat, and baking the PMD.
1) Jifaire,did you read the entire tread, as per my cooler location?
2) If what you say is right, than why the f do we use a fan to cool the rad.
Experience has told me if you wanna cool a piece of red hot metal in water, it cools faster by waving it back and forth in it than holding it still.
Cool air rushing past the cooler in the fender has got to have the same effect as having the cooler in the bumper while driving.The only diff is FSD heat rise after shutdown, wich happens to be only 2 degrees so far in my location.

It seems to me that Bison is asking for someone with their bumper mounted PMD to idle their truck for 5 minutes, at around the same 0 Celsius mark, and record their temperature readings.

I vote Bison's to be cooler at idle because of the constant airflow the heat sink will be exposed to there, due to the engine sucking in air through the fender in which the heat sink is mounted.

1) Jifaire,did you read the entire tread, as per my cooler location?
2) If what you say is right, than why the f do we use a fan to cool the rad.
Experience has told me if you wanna cool a piece of red hot metal in water, it cools faster by waving it back and forth in it than holding it still.
Cool air rushing past the cooler in the fender has got to have the same effect as having the cooler in the bumper while driving.The only diff is FSD heat rise after shutdown, wich happens to be only 2 degrees so far in my location.


Jifaire is absolutely correct though.

We use a fan and you wave the metal to move the HOT air away and bring COOL air in.(or move out of the hot water and into cooler water)

the actual movement means nothing, thermal transfer occurs better when there is a higher temperature difference, so ambient outside bay air and hot fsd is a better temperature differential for the removal of heat, now i'm not saying your location won't work

i want to see how this pans out, because it is a nice location. i just wanted to try and clear up some thermal dynamics for you guys ;)

So how hot does your PMD gets with vehicle at idle, was my question.

By the way, the hot soup cools faster even if you don't blow in an open environment than if you put it in the oven with a higher ambient temp. Jeff (Jifaire) explained the heat transfer/thermodynamics principle better than me.

TX is not 0C (32F), but my PMD does not have any temperature when idle.
It is the same as ambient. In other words, the moment the PMD is heating up, the heatsink absorb the heat and dissipate it.

I am not a scientist, just a hands on guy.I do however understand the heat disipation thing. And knew that the heatsink can only disipate heat if the surrounding area is cooler than the heatsink itself[that's a no brainer]The faster you replace the surrounding and heating up air the cooler the heatsink stays. I may not know how it works,but only THAT it works.
Trying to keep the FSD at ambient temp at all times to avoid expansion and contracting [ wich supposedly kills the thing]is gonna be a futile effort anyway, as the ambient temp itself can fluctuate between a low of -40c to a high of + 40 c.
Apparently nobody ever figgured out WHAT exactly kills the FSD,altough heat/shrink is higly suspected, but is it ever proven? As there are many PMD's still on the pump without fail after 300.000km.

there are many PMD's still on the pump without fail after 300.000km.

I doubt there are as many originals as you think there are :D

very few originals in fact....

it isn't the expansion and contraction at the rate of weather changes...it's the expansion and contraction at the rate that start up, run, shut down, heat soak, cool, start up...all day long causes...and it's proven in thousands of electrical components in the world

As there are many PMD's still on the pump without fail after 300.000km.

I have not seen anybody last 300k KM. Most people the first time it happened, they sell their truck or burb. It was under warranty so they replaced the IP which include PMD. The chance of it going bad in the middle of the freeway on a hot or cold day frightened me. There were a lot more horror stories like that a few years ago.

It also depends on where the truck is located. It looks like the more south, the worst it gets. It is hot in the summer here from KS down to TX.

Also, it depends on how you drive and when you fill up. I notice the PMD is hotter when my fuel is lower even outside on the heatsink. Long distance driving is also helping its longevity since it is less shutdown-start cycle.

So keep on testing your location. There were a few that used that location, as a matter of fact, if you go to the Hummer forum, that is their suggested location. But the Hummer engine compartment is much bigger and a little bit more open than ours. At least, that is my impression when I see the picture. I have not seen how one look like in person.

So keep on testing your location. There were a few that used that location, as a matter of fact, if you go to the Hummer forum, that is their suggested location. But the Hummer engine compartment is much bigger and a little bit more open than ours. At least, that is my impression when I see the picture. I have not seen how one look like in person.

They have cut holes in thier fender and put the heatsink in the air intake plenum? I would like to see this in a Hummer. Could you link these pictures or threads please?

They have cut holes in thier fender and put the heatsink in the air intake plenum? I would like to see this in a Hummer. Could you link these pictures or threads please?

I saw it somewhere on the web. May be flashoffroad.
Can't link to anything in this forum, they will frown on you and thought that you are selling something.

the plenum would be the lower manifold....they are putting the FSD and Heatsink in the fender in the intake air path

thanx for clarification there 1-800-555 TIPS

stir stir stir the pot...gently down the stream...merrily merrily merrrily merrily, life is but a dream....

I would like to see the temperature readings on these in summer...can't wait

stir stir stir the pot...gently down the stream...merrily merrily merrrily merrily, life is but a dream....

I would like to see the temperature readings on these in summer...can't wait You'll just have to hold your horses till then.Have a:beerchug:While you wait,wait,wait,waiiit :sleep:

i might have to dream up an other stir in the pot topic in the mean time, something about how to change the door key lock without removing the door panel:D:Get_him:

I saw it somewhere on the web. May be flashoffroad.
Can't link to anything in this forum, they will frown on you and thought that you are selling something.


That last part really wasn't needed, and also is not true.

i might have to dream up an other stir in the pot topic in the mean time, something about how to change the door key lock without removing the door panel:D:Get_him:


If you pull hard enough you can get the door handle off right? :eek:

If you pull hard enough you can get the door handle off right? :eek: nah, thats not my style Dave. i'll post it someday, you'll be my judge,I promiss it'll be a clean job.:idea:

nah, thats not my style Dave. i'll post it someday, you'll be my judge,I promiss it'll be a clean job.:idea:


Interesting. Would've been useful when i couldn't get my driver's door open, yet had to get the panel off. now THAT was a PITA, so I had my work deal with it :rolleyes::p:. come to find out a piece of the old outside handle(cracked by keyhole area) fell into the locking mechanism in the door and jammed everything up. I couldn't open the door from inside or outside. :o:

the plenum would be the lower manifold....they are putting the FSD and Heatsink in the fender in the intake air path

By def it is also the upper intake manifold, ya smart alec!!!:p::D

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10778 this one has been sort of done before link found in FAQ linked at end of PMD FAQ by KNKREB

Interesting. Would've been useful when i couldn't get my driver's door open, yet had to get the panel off. now THAT was a PITA, so I had my work deal with it :rolleyes::p:. come to find out a piece of the old outside handle(cracked by keyhole area) fell into the locking mechanism in the door and jammed everything up. I couldn't open the door from inside or outside. :o:now that is exactly why i want a shortcut,cuz of the PITA plastic door panel.

Update as to FSD temps now weather is getting a bit warmer.

To combat underhood heatrise after shut down, I had covered the FSD with a piece of 1" thick blue styrafoam with a pocket cut out to accept the FSD,and wrapped it in ductape for longivity.
Today, ambient temp 18 deg c, after an 80 km trip the FSD read 34-c, the cooler 26-c.
1/2 hr after shutdown FSD was 33-c. cooler was 23-c ,And [underhood temps ,taken close by the FSD with a normal outdoor thermometer was 40-c].
IMO,so far so good.

It sure beats the 69-c before shutdown, taken today too on my wife's truck's FSD,wich is still on the intake .[I better move that one in the fender too,before it fries again]

I sure would like to see what my FSD temps are gonna be on a hot day.

worst case ... if the summer numbers are high due to the location being in the fender pull it out strap a 90mm PC fan to the back of the sink and run the 12v needed.... then its just a matter of having it run to cool the sink at idle and shut down.